Talkin’ Cowboys: State of the Star

The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club Cowboys. This he is Talking Cowboys, springing live from the Dallas Cowboys World Tours at the Star in Frisco.

Streams, got tisis Any Continent Touchdowns.

And now your hosts Isaiah Standback, Nick Harris, John Mashoda and Kyle Yeomans.

It's a Wednesday edition of Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. As we have a brand new crew on side inside the SWBC Mortgage Studios. It's a podcast mix up week here on the bye week for the Dallas Cowboys. It's always been a tradition for Derek Eagleton and company to throw a wrench into things and completely mix and match. So we have four different podcasts represented now here on

Double Beat? Doing well? Boys?

Thanks for allowing me to get in early today. I don't have the tea time like church over there. We got a lot going on in the city that I'm a part of. So excited to be with you guys this morning.

Kurt and are Barry don't understand it yet, but this is really just going to be a draft show.

If that's the case, Kurt's going to have us ride a magazine here.

While throw it together and get it done early. We have Kurt Daniels from hanging with the boys.

What's going on, Kurt.

I'm glad to see you guys.

Always fun to hang out with some new company around here.

Yeah, that's good.

It's a little bit different than Nate Shannon and Jesse right.

Well, you know that one's we're always just steps away from driving into the ditch.

So at least they got somebody that put their hands on the wheel. You can lean over and like maybe touch the brake over there.

Sometimes try.

I try.

Then you've got Nate like slapping the hand down and say no.

Let's keep this thing wrong.

Let me tell you something.

Yeah, my favorite Nate story was I was doing a pregame with him one time, or actually a postgam sorry, and and I was just going off as one of those bad cowboy losses. And I was just going off on it and and and we went to commercial. Lindsay Draper through at the break and Nate.

Looks at me.

He goes, you're trying to get fired, aren't you. And I'm like, I'm like Nate, he goes, I know I feel the same way, man, I just can't say it the way you say it. That's the fun thing about working with Nate. He always he's always going to give you his opinion on the.

Will toe the line. He does a great job of it.

Speaking up, We've got Barry Church, yes sir, from the players Loud Yes sir, and many other Dallas Cowboys dot com programs.

Have my fingerprints all over it.

Man.

But I'm glad i'm here early.

Yeah.

Usually I got the two PM the middle of the day, you know, I can't get that swing in. But today, today is a different story.

It's a little bit different. We got the coat and tie guys here today with us as well. Yeah, true, true.

It was funny because when Derek first released the nine Am, we saw it at the same time that Cowboys fans saw it. We didn't get any heads up, no email where they was like, hey, can you make it? Like No, Derek just threw it out there and said here it is. And my first thought was, man, that's early for BC. But he gets on the golf course too.

Gotta wake up a little bit earlier.

But now you get to go swing the golf clubs a little bit here in.

A couple of moments. But glad to have you guys on the show.

Of course, if if you're a normal listener to talking Cowboys, be sure to check out Cowboys Break, Hang with the Boys, Players Lounge. All these guys do great jobs with their respective crews along the Dallas Cowboys dot com network.

But we do have some some cowboys to talk about.

And I really wanted to use today and Monday as a state of the organization, kind of a bye week checkup self, say yeah, self, scout, kind of look in words, see what this team is. Did we over anticipate? Did we put too much expectations, too many expectations on this team going into the season.

Or was it just right?

Do you still believe that this team can get where they need to get in order to push for an NFC championship game, in order to push for a Super Bowl. I'll start with you, Brian, whenever you look at the expectations that you had specifically for this team going into twenty twenty three. Have they wavered to this point in the season.

Yeah. I think there was going to be a loss or two along the way that you didn't expect. We got that one early in Arizona. I thought they were going to steal a game somewhere that you didn't expect. We really haven't seen that one yet. You know, maybe

June predictions on the radio.

It was, Okay, they're gonna be three and three, and McCarthy's gonna hand over the play calling to Brian Schottenheimmer. I just thought there was just so much turnover on the offensive staff. I was thinking, it's gonna take some games for some continuity here.

So I believe that right where I thought.

Maybe defensively I'm a little bit more concerned than I was going coming out of training camp, But offensively I kind of felt this is maybe where they were gonna be the first six games. Defensively, it's there's been some challenges for them.

What do you think, Kurt, Yeah, I kind of agree that record wise, Yeah, fourign two, this is probably where you expect them to be with a lot of hope always coming into the season, but then you had it's the way the wins and losses came. Yeah, when you blew out Giants, blew out Patriots, all going to the Super Bowl, and then you just get dismantled by the forty nine ers. So some reason the four and two seems worse than maybe it is. So yeah, I agree

I think, yeah, I'm gonna make it a three for three on this one.

When you talk about record wise, I feel like this team is kind of right where we thought they would be. I didn't think they would drop that Arizona game, so I had them coming around five and one, losing only the San Francisco out there. But when you talk about offensively, I think this is where I kind of figured they would be at because you talked Mike McCarthy was talking in the offseason it was all about controlling the clock, ground and pound, and we're gonna.

Play to the strength of our defense.

And I think that's what you've seen so far from this Texas Coast whatever West Coast offense, whatever you want to call it.

I think they've played to the strength, which is the defense.

What's concerning for me, and I'm gonna go ahead and piggyback on what Brian was saying.

Is defensively, it just hasn't been consistent. When you're going against that wouldn't even say powerhouses like Arizona.

You're going against an athletic quarterback who gave your defense fits and the run game that gave your defense fits. And we saw that all last year. You know, with the drafting of Mazi Smith, Hankins coming in there, you know, Diggi Zua rowing in his in his defensive line problems. We thought, okay, maybe we can get this situation under control. But then Arizona hit you off with two hundred. We seen what the forty nine ers were able to do.

The league, he missed a lot of wide open throws out there.

There was a lot of coverages where cats were wide open out there. So you know, the self doubting what happened during the bye week, and hopefully we can get this thing kind of put together. But defensively, I do have some concerns.

I think it's.

Interesting when you talk about the defense because going back to what Kurt said initially, with the way that the wins and losses came, the defense looked historic. I mean, that was what we were talking about, right and he was saying turnovers, takeaways, yards per game, it didn't matter. This defense was gonna get it done. And now you're starting to see some of the cracks in the armor. Maybe it's from injuries. Maybe Trayvon Diggs was a bigger loss than anticipating.

Maybe Layton vander Esh was a bigger loss.

Than anticipate, even though you won the game without Layton vander Esh in the fold. But I think the expectations have shifted more from my perspective on the defensive.

Side of things than it has on the offensive side.

Kind of going along with what Brian said earlier, change of staff, change of scheme, change of system, it was gonna look a little bit different offensively. I don't know if I had an utmost confidence in what this team was gonna do. I thought maybe they would maybe utilize the weapons a little bit more, the guys on the outside, little Ceede Lamb, little Brandon Cooks more so. But I didn't necessarily have the sky high expectations Offensively. We haven't

Two games, well, there's people, I know, the national media, and really you know, if you focus on that, they'll tell you, well, Dallas, you know, was on their way to you know, we always compare the eighty five Bears or the Ravens, whatever, great defense, the Boom, the Legion boom, the doomsday defenses.

Here in Dallas that they've had in the seventies.

But you know, you're you're kind of like those were the comparisons, and then you start to kind of you know, the digs injury I think is huge, just because to me, they were so much better off digs. And we're seeing some stuff with Gilmore that I know, maybe we'll get into about him. There's some slippage going on with Gilmour there, and it's not that the mental slippage or the desire and all that, it's some physical stuff with him. He doesn't run as well, he doesn't have his quickness, but

Ur yeah, Arry Church.

But but the thing about it is, though the safety play hasn't been as great, you know, and that's and that's been an issue for this for this team too.

They create a lot of pressure.

The turnovers, all those things were kind of you know, like you're thinking, like, you know, eighty five Bears, level pressures, all those things, eighty five Bears. But then the Arizona game and then people started kind of figuring out a little bit. San Francisco exposed some things that Arizona did to you. You know, the Chargers tried to do some things to you. Bearers, absolutely right. They missed some huge plays, but probably because some of that pressure affected the way

A really good game.

He was really good against the Patriots, but before that he really hadn't been very good. He played very well in this past game. But are teams going to figure out having Bell down in the box no more? Until Van der Esh gets back and we'll see how they adjust to that.

I'm a little surprised to hear all of you talk about the concerns with the defense, because there are concerns, but they're still top five defense or so they're going to win you some games. But to me, it's the offense. Maybe I bought into the hope of the Texas Coast, but I just wonder if this offense is going to be on to well, I think the offense offense is are they a chance?

So I think I.

Think that we were all cheerleading for this, these five guys to play together, you know, and then we you know, you didn't see that at all in training camp and McCarthy, you know, by people could say, well, they didn't play together in training camp and all that, and you throw that out there.

But you know what they did.

They developed some backups to the point where I'm like, oh, this is you know this guy has to play. Okay, fine, you know, you know whoever has to play. I'm comfortable with those guys going in the game now. It's not an unknown. The worry for me from the Cowboy offense is the five guys that are playing right now. Because you go back and you watch y'all twenty two, which we all do. You know you're going to just go through And I did it for my radio show yesterday

Yeah, and when you talk about that offensive line, we saw the biggest plays out of that out of that Chargers game. Whereas when Dak was off schedule, when it wasn't let me sit back, I got protection, let me go ahead and rifle his ball in there. It was things were breaking down all around, and protection broken down. The biggest play of the game with Pollard, everything was going around. He should have should have been said he got out of that thing. He threw it across body

But the rest of these guys we're talking about Gallup Cooks.

He was four for four, four targets, four receptions in a TD but Gallup, you had ten ten targets out there.

I think.

Our secondary three catches I think for twenty four yards. That's not going to cut it. Because when you go against these upper echelon defenses like we went against the forty nine ers, they're going to figure out a way to slow down Ceede Lamb's production out there. We're gonna have to have these rest of these guys win these one on one battles, and that's something that we haven't seen so far from this year from this wide receiver corps.

Just haven't seen that yet.

So that's another concern with the offense as far as production and how they're going to move this football well.

Real quick too.

If you're one of those people out there that says Dak has to have everything, has to have, the line have to have, the receiver, has to have, the running game and all that, he won you the game without any of that last go yeah, I mean and that you know, So if you're if you're one of those guys or galas, it's like, well, Dak's got to have it it's got to be perfect, it's gonna out. No, he proved us all wrong the other day, the way you were talking about moving around finding you know, keeping

I don't know.

People say, well, should Tolbert get more opportunity? I don't know if they will that. I don't know if they're going to give Tolbert more of an opportunity over Gallop. I think they're going to just keep playing because but the problem is when and we all know it's about Michael Gallup. Yeah, when there's when there's we all know about Michael Gallup. There's two really good games in three games where.

He does nothing. It's been his history.

You know, but you but they just keep rolling with him. And I don't know if we're going to see more of Tolbert, really, I don't. I think they're going to try and find Hey, let's get cooks, let's with Lamb. You could have thrown him twenty balls the other day and he'd caught all twenty. That's just the way that game was going to go. Yeah, But I just I don't.

S don't know.

Everybody wants to throw Tolbart and there get all those gallop reps. I don't know if they're going to do that. I really don't.

Kurt, you were talking about the concern on the offensive side of the ball wood getting just weapons involved in general, whether it's Cooks or Lamb or Tolbert. If you wanted to throw Tolbert into the mix there too, gallop. Just getting those guys involved baseline improvement coming out of the bye week.

Would that help you in terms of your offensive concern I think so.

The Ringer had a story last week. I thought it was pretty interesting that this isn't a Dak problem, it's a play calling problem. And you know, Dak is among the leader league leaders in complete some percentage and some other categories that you know, he's twenty sixth and yards per catch or whatever it's that, and they're currently raked

So we've talked about the quarterback a little bit.

We've talked about the offensive line, we talked about the weapons, and now we kind of turned to the coaching staff on the offense.

Can I throw something in real quick too?

Your backup tight ends are doing absolutely nothing tight ends, Yeah.

That's what I'm saying.

I mean, you your backup tight ends uh limited, you know, like two catches, three catches whatever, you know exactly. So you know, there's a lot of things. To me, I really do believe it starts upfront with what they're doing right now. I think that affects that to me is your engine and the play call in is you know the thing with Mike he and call plays what seven or eight years, you know, I mean, And there's people that will say that if you listen to national media,

That these guys adapt as they go.

They're like, listen, we've got to figure out more ways to do things. And you know that's that's my worry that Mike, you know, might be a little bit said in his ways of how he's going to run this offense. But I don't think his offensive play calls will matter unless they fix what's going on up front.

Well if I mean they watched the same film that we do, right, I mean they.

Watch the same ALL twenty two.

When you look at it, I think that you can hopefully when you're watching the ALL twenty two up front, I mean you can't look at.

The offensive line and say, man, these guys are just blocking it up for Dak Prescott. These guys have made up pocket.

It's great.

No, there's leakage upfront.

You can see that Dak showed that quite a bit just by moving and maneuvering out of it, getting out of trouble.

Do you think that affects the play.

Calling from Mike McCarthy knowing confidence wise, Okay, we may not have as much time upfront, so I've got.

To call a play this way as opposed to that. I think Arizona game was I think he and he admitted it. He admitted it that that that the night before the game, he loses three offensive linemen and all of a sudden, he's like, Okay, well, here's my massive play card that looks like a menu at uh, you know, wherever? Yeah, whatever, whatever, what's our cheesecake? Cheesecake fatty?

Yeah? They hand you that manual, you know, like war in peace, and.

You're like, oh, well, I think i'll have you're doing that, Mike. That's what Mike's play call sheet looks like. It looks like it looks like that that menu. And you know, he had to probably take off sections that he wanted to call in that game. But the offensive line in that game, because of they did all the work in the preseason, held up early. Well, that wasn't the problem.

Offense?

It looks that way because they're trying to get the ball to the edge with pullers.

And you know, and and guy and and it.

It's just so cluttered at the point of attack that Pollock's hap it or you know, these guys are doubt all having to take it back inside and it looks like inside run every time. And it's really they're trying to get the ball to the edge, but they just they're losing so many blocks. And again in that game uh La last Monday night, it's just you know, you can't you can't do that. You can't pull guys and try and set things up and then have guys just get you know, taken apart at the point of attack.

So is it a learning to get the chemistry again? Is it a you know, got mikelari in a new scheme, or is it this is that aging talent is not what we thought it was.

Well, you get a banged up guard, a banged up Hall of Fame guard. You've got a left tackle that is a Hall of famer. But he's not the same guy at all. He's not the same guy. He doesn't have the lateral slide. There was a time where Murray the linebacker just completely outruns him and you know, maybe Tyron Smith five years ago.

He's he's like, he takes that heart in sidestep.

And then he's up second level and he's pushing that linebacker completely past the play, but now he can't get Yeah, that's well the right tack he is, he's they're not. We've seen we've seen Martin and Steel combo block and second level, that thing where it's just together and they push and then they get it walled off and now there goes the ball. Ye you know, we've seen it where it's hit its spots and it's like, oh, here we go. That's what let see. Haven't seen that as

I know.

During the draft show and all that, we're talking about it. But and then they use mcew and is a trail on a on a pull and he gets whacked two different times, never gets a block, So why and why you pulling guys Hunter Lipkey? He gets whacked at the point of attack. So you're you're trying to create things. You're trying to create, You're saying, Okay, I'm gonna take my best guy and try and put him in a position to block, and then they get whacked at the

And it's not working, you know.

I mean they went from that thirteen personnel stuff got just destroyed twice. Didn't run it in the second half. You know why, because Mike's like, whoop, across that one off. That's not gonna work today, minus one, negative two, okay, yeah, across those off.

It takes his breakfast, lunch and menu dinner Geahn to just a breakfast.

Yeah, the twenty six appetizers that he could order from there at the cheesecake factory.

It certainly is a concern upfront, and I think the offensive line with it, even with the starting five being where they are. Like you said, it's not the same as what we've anticipated, but there's other.

Things we expected a lot more.

Yes, and maybe maybe it can change it. Maybe it can change I think you're going to play better defensive lines. You're not going to probably always play defensive lines like the forty nine ers. But on the horizon, if you squit, you can see that bunch in from the east, you know, standing right twice?

Yeah, yeah, don't forget about the commanders still up.

I mean they'll beat you up to this segment.

Repond to you by Oh Gosh, the Dallas Cowboys fan of the You are presented by Captain Morgan.

Don't talk about Aaron Donald. It's the bye week, guys.

We can't talk about he has coming up when we come back. We'll look at the offensive side a little bit more. Brian mentioned the tight ends. I want to dive into what could be fixed from the tight end room. Is it just inconsistency? Is it a lack of confidence? Where could the tight end see an uptick? And then of course we'll dive deeper into the defense as well. What's going on on that side of the football.

What have they done well?

What have they not done well?

Through the first six games of the twenty twenty three season. With more talking Cowboys.

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Welcome back into Dear Doctor, the show where I answer life's questions with an ice cold can of doctor pepper. Sheila, let's hear from my next caller.

Would you, dear doctor?

My friend supported me during a tough time.

But what's the right gift that says thanks for being a soldier to cry out?

Okay, this one's easy, I say, give her a delicious doctor pepper. Nothing says thanks good better than one of a kind soda. Yes, any doctor Pepper flavor will do now, just to remind her that I don't need to be a real doctor to know that Doctor Pepper is the one you deserve.

To talking Cowboys.

This portion of Talking Cowboys is brought to you by Quaker Oats, a super trusted super food. Quaker Oats, the official oatmeal sponsor of the Dallas Cowboys.

We're all about breakfast foods here. We've got the cheesecake Factory again. Got we all talk about we got there, We've been there that you know that menu at.

The Cheesecake Factory. Seriously, you know the red cross drop supplies to you there at the table so long. You know, I mean, have you ever gone like what are you gonna? What are you thinking about? You know, you ask your friends what are you thinking about? Oh there and like not even close to whatever you Oh wait a minute, haven't got the page seventy five bread? Yeah, they got some good they got some good food.

They do, they do.

They don't even know if there's Grand Lux is another one that has that. Grand Lux will beat you down that menu.

Wa Burger has a great menu too, just so you got Yeah that sponsor man.

They're very good.

Yea, all right, Barry Church brod us what was that?

What a burger and black rifle coffee. Yeah, we got to.

Be nice, wet the burger.

We got the black Rifle coffee.

I got a black Rifle coffee. That player the player a lounge. You guys have some whiskey sponsors and stuff like that.

That's what a little whatever.

But yeah, you know we stop over here with hanging with the boys. Break doesn't even have a title sponsor, do you guys?

I don't think so. Derek's like, I don't want to do the rules and I mess him up all the time.

I'll send people to Fort Worth when they really need to go to Arlington, like Brian, we did. We didn't think about bull riding yesterday, p BR. Yeah, it's happening like in May. That might be a read I have to do for the next six months.

I'm gonna get really good at it. I'm gonna be able to ride a bull. But now I say I'll do my best. I'll jack that thing up. I feel sorry, sorry PBR about that.

Oh man, Brian, you brought up the tight ends a little bit, and I'm going to talk about that going into this next segment because it is really a game changer, especially.

In the modern day NFL.

That sure is to have a game changing tight end to have a guy that you can rely on. Jake Ferguson has been as close to that as anybody on the roster so far. But outside of that, there really hasn't been.

Hendershot's been nicked up a whole lot of hell it's hurt.

Yeah, yep, Luke Schooonmaker second round pick, bring back McEwan. I think it was unfortunate in the preseason they lost John Stevens.

That was another dynamic receiver that you could have used.

Barry as a former safety in the league, and you look at a tight end in the today's NFL. How imperative is it to have depth, to have not just one guy that you can rely on.

I mean, even look at Kansas City. They didn't just have Kelsey, they got Gray Gray in there too.

That's doing some things.

You saw the Ertz and god It attack a couple of years ago with Philadelphia.

How big is it to have other guys that you can mix a match well.

From a defensive perspective, it's huge because when you're going out there and these guys can lock you in to a personnel group and you got to stay in that base personnel group to match up.

With those guys.

It's extremely tough, especially when you got a tight end out there who can block as well as be a receiving threat out there, because who you're gonna line up on them when you're in your base. You gotta either throw a linebacker out there who he can probably just outrun, or safety out there who he can out physical. I mean, we see it all the time. So having depth at that position in more than one guy is is of

He has the rout.

Running ability and the receiving ability I think to be one of those abrechelon tight ends. Now when it comes to the block, and that's where he kind of slacks off at a little bit, kind of reminded me of Schultz a little bit in that regard. But overall, I think he can be that guy. We just got to bring a number two behind him in that regard. These guys have been dropping some tight or some dropping some

Til the forty nine ers kill you too. They're getting that twenty two personnel, you know, the two bad two tight ends, and they and they move guys and they they just they find ways to take advantage. And I think the Cowboys would like to do some of the things tight end packages. You know, I don't know how much they really this is being reckless. I don't know how much they really trust Luke Schoonmaker right now. You know,

This last week.

He didn't get as many opportunities in these games. And maybe they felt like that they could attack this charger secondary with the with their wide outs and you know, getting eleven personnel stuff and be able to But you know, they've they've got to They're they're they're lacking right now.

As a unit when it comes to their their run blocking.

It just hasn't been And that's one of the reasons why I was cheerleading for Schoonmaker because I'd seen him at Michigan. When you watch Michigan run the football, Blake Korum and those guys. They hammer that ball and it was a lot of time it was schoonmaker either uh you know, in line why right next to the tackle, pushing or movement, and then being that guy at the point of attack.

They need to do something with him in that way.

I think he would be a better fit, better option than what they have with Sean McEwen. I've yet to see Sean McEwan take his nose and stick it in the middle of somebody's numbers and get that kind of that push. I'm sure there's somebody that will find a clip of him blocking, but I know in this game the other day, it was he was.

Not a factor like they were asking him to be.

I think the one thing, sorry Kurt, that I remember with McEwen is he's a good downfield blocker, but he's.

Not a good in line blocker. He's just not.

That's what they're asking him to do.

And he's pulling on the back side of a you know, it's it's Tyler Smith pulling and him on the trail and now they're getting just guys are getting just compressed at the point, and you know it's like he's kind of like I'm not sure where to go. I'm not sure where to be, and then his guy leaks off and then makes a play, and then you wonder why it's a two yard game and why they're running into a brick wall here.

So how do you fix that problem?

Can you gaming up differently?

I don't gets better. Well, that's the whole idea.

You drafted Scoonmaker with the thought of being that point of attack, getting the push guy. I would maybe consider flipping him and Sean McEwan out, but they might say, well listen, we you know, with Ferguson, Ferguson will fight his ass off, but he's just limited right now. I mean,

It was there?

Now it's not there kind of a thing. So yeah, you know, Kurt, I I don't know, maybe in maybe in a year. Yeah, that sounds terrible to say. With Luke Schoonmaker growing and doing what he has to do. But they maybe they have to think about should we try and run the ball away from strength, you know, if we're gonna cut off, Yeah, if we're gonna if we're gonna do a deal where you're I'm not a coordinator.

Maybe think about some more weak.

Side runs is what I was thinking about here, just to kind of not let people overplay and kill your tight ends at the point of attack.

And that's what it sounds like, like they're struggling with power.

It is and it is and it's and you know too, like I said, Steele and Martin haven't been as clean as And we interview Zach Martin every Thursday on the g Bag Nation and we talked about and he loves playing next to Steel And you got to give still a lot of credit when they were running the ball when they when when the Cowboys have run the ball in the past, those two guys have been a big part of it because of their ability to combo block and push that you know, secure the down lineman and

And there's also a lot of analytics that even this year show that Tony Pollard loves.

To finish because you were talking about it too. Where they're trying to get to the outside and then they got to cut back inside.

Well where is his safety valve.

It's in between Zach Martin and Terrence.

And you know look where they ran the quarterback sneak the you know, the tush push. They tried to push it to the right and your center just you know, he got blasted in there, and that happens. I mean, it's just like you know, you get turned. But you know, they had one of the best runs they had the game.

What happened.

They get everybody blocked and then ceedee lamb is just hands outside and he's you know and then he you know, kind of lets go. But but all the officials need to see is hands outside. So here they have a run where they do get everything walled inside to the corner around the corner nine yard game. Opp holding got to come back ten yards, you know that kind of thing.

Would you have them more in kind of like a off the line situation where they can get maybe a couple couple heads start a little.

Bit, you know what I would worry about.

Like it's a good point because sometimes you could get guys that will motion across and you've dealt with this because you play down in the box. You get a guy that motions and all of a sudden he has a running go. But then again you aggressively attack him

If you play them off the line of scrimmage, and Barry, I'm sure you probably read this the same way, but when you play them off the line of scrimmage, it's almost like putting them on an island to a certain extent, right, because.

There's a little bit more space.

Yes, you can't get that that forward motion and maybe an extra step into that collision. But it also leaves you alone a lot of times because you're not locked up with someone, or you.

Play against Tank Lawrence when you try and crack him and he knows and he like sees the crack and he spends it and now you're you know, now you're getting grass stains on the front of your uniform because you dove right straight into the ground. Yeah, you know, you get You get some smart guys like very like they the guys that play around in that line of scrimmage. They know they're gonna get cracked. They're gonna try and get hooked. You know, there's gonna be things that they're

I think, what did you want to see from from the tight ends when you were playing?

What what did they do? What end cater did they give you that said, Okay, I'm gonna have some success on that snap.

Well, to me when I was going against you know, tight ends that I.

Can't run, I'm like, I'm gonna have an easy day today, stay on this low hip all thing. But when you when you go against guys and you just got to understand your personnel. When you're going out there and you're going against a guy that thrives being detached from the line of scrimmage, do you know, hey, I'm gonna have my work cut out for me as as far as

Check out there.

So when you're going against guys like that, you just kind of have to know your personnel. But to me, it was always tougher, and because I wasn't the best cover guy, so it was always tougher going against detached tight ends out there because then my eyes are open to everything. Man, I gotta read the run. I gotta read this guy. He's going vertical. I know I can beat him physically, but when it comes to routes and diagnose and plays, it becomes a lot tougher.

When you got a tight end out there.

Was it like when you played like an against zach Ertz. You knew was going to always kind of be up the field, but.

When you saw him along the line, you're like, I'm going to attack him, must because I'm going to grab him and throw him on the ground.

Got him, but don't want to let him get a release.

Yeah, but all of a sudden he tries to nod me outside and I jump, and now he's inside and you're chasing.

That's the nightmare right there.

But you know that he's blocking in line like that, you just grab and throw him on the ground.

Do you like these tight ends?

Then in the passing game, you know what I bunning game?

No, they got something.

The problem, the problem I have is I'm one of these guys that believe that that Michigan did not play to the strengths of what Luke Schoonmaker. I think Luke Schoonmakers can be a good receiving tight end. I know he had the drop, you know when against the cover two there, you know he's got to make that play. But I just feel like, though that Ferguson can catch the ball. I think Hindershot can catch the ball too,

He really does?

I mean it's like, Okay, it's third and seven, he gets nine, it's third and six he gets eight. You know, he's always making a guy miss and finishing to where you know he's getting the first down for you, and those types of things. So I think these guys can catch. I just worry about are there ways to play around the lack of some of the point of attack blocking that they're dealing with right now?

Does it make you feel any better? Actually, I'm gonna take a I'm gonna take a break. We gotta take our second break. When we come back.

I'm gonna finish that question.

I'm gonna see.

What makes this group feel better.

Then we'll tease you to our show on Monday with the same crew he makes up Wednesday here on Talking Cowboys.

We'll be right back right after this.

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This segment is brought to you by Invisi Line, the official smile of the Dallas Cowboys. Welcome back in to Talking Cowboys, presented by a Black Rifle Coffee Company. We have Barry Church from the Player's Lounge, Kurt Daniels from Hanging with the Boys, Brian brought us from Cowboys Break On. Kyle Yeoman's your normal host on this program. We'll be back with the same crew by the way on Monday.

I've been invited to everybody. That's what he told me.

Bring your wallet, costume, cast you a little, might cost you a lot, but it's gonna cost you.

But it's gonna cost you. He'll tell you, though, beforehand, that he's betting you. Now, definitely lets you know. He'll let you know. He's not gonna leave you hanging out.

No, he's not gonna expect money from me as you walk off the eighteenth.

Yeah, oh man, all right, So we've got a couple of minutes left.

I feel like Kurt's probably the best golfer at this table. He just doesn't talk about it.

I don't play hm, he doesn't play around.

That's how good he is. Guys, doesn't play around.

What made you make that statement?

I'm just saying, I just think.

He's the best.

He's quiet over there, he's looking at he looks, he looks at how big and husky I am.

And I don't turn very well. And that's the problem there.

Tyler Smith or Tyrone Smithyron Smith, very very.

Stiff big Andy. Hall of Famer, Hall of Fame. That's fair.

Let's talk about the tight ends just a little bit more.

Because I talked with Jake Ferguson last week and I kind of went up to him and he kind of gave me a look, and I was like.

What's the look? What's the look?

He said, that's time to be more physical. Yeah, it's time to and he said the words that I can't.

Say on this show.

But it's not just week before the game, before the game, time to mess stuff up is what he said. And I basically said, I was like, okay, what does that mean? He said, I don't want to get a pen, I don't want to get flagged, but I want to be the first one to get in there and lay down the hammer, lay down the physicality. There were a couple of times in the most recent matchup where he did show some physicality block on the edge.

He's just limited. These guys are a little bit limited right now. Do you think they can hit that ceiling with a better mentality.

I don't think it's mentality. I think you physically have to have the ability. I think they have the desire, the willingness. They're asking them to do some things. You know, that's what coaching is. You have to play to you the strengths of your players. There's going to be a time where in this season they're going to have to hide Gilmore. I think they are, and I keep mentioning I just mentioned him because he doesn't run as well.

You know where we're gonna do.

We're gonna drop linebackers, We're gonna gonna help him in coverage in case people start taking the routes.

Same thing with the tight ends.

You can't put these guys in positions where they can't they can't get it done. You know, like I said, they got into thirteen personnel a couple of times with McEwan ran the plays, they were negative plays. Those go off the call sheet. You know, I'm like, okay, we can't do this anymore. And that's what that's what this coach, this this you know coaching is really about. It's about knowing your personnel and figuring out ways to take advantage of them.

Look, I mean, when you talk about it, at the end of the day, these tights, there's some good tight ends, all right, they're good tight ends, but I don't believe they're gonna be the difference for this offense moving forward, getting getting things done.

It made me feel better, true, I just go by what I see.

I mean, are they great complimentary police pieces short, They can go out there and get you some receptions here and there. But when it comes down to it, this offense I don't think needs to run through the tight ends by any stretch of the imaginations. Like I said, I think you can dump some things off to them. Maybe they can be your security blanket when everything else breaks down. But when it comes down to these tight ends,

I mean, it's just it's just how.

We see triple teams.

He's gonna see triple.

Teams, and that just it's perplexing to me that teams like Minnesota, justin Jefferson, teams like Miami with Tyreek Hill defenses know they're going to take this guy away, but still they're able to go out there and produce.

And have great numbers. Why can't we do that here in Dallas. That to me, it's just I don't understand it.

Tell them, Kurt, you're getting Christmas card from the head ball. I just don't understand it.

Well, I'll tell you what they did. Scheme a pretty good play in the San Francisco game. Maybe the best player that they had was the touchdown to Turpin. I agree, that was definitely that was twins to motion for the for the trips and then to run him on the on the nickel safety there and and you know.

Dack, their a beautiful ball.

Great to just you know, that's what Kurt brought up, motions and stuff like that. That's kind of every week the motions have gotten less and less and less, and that's that's people. And Barry's you know, Barry's been a professional football player, so he knows this too. I mean, but you know, sometimes motion does affect you and sometimes it just doesn't. And McCarthy's excuse and during the game was he didn't feel like that it was doing anything

So that's why.

But there's some of the concerns that you know, Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay, they were very static team Rogers liked everything just set and then and you know, sometimes you when you're a play caller, you just you're so used to doing things a certain way that you just don't I remember talking Andy Reid about it. Andy used to give up play call into Eric the Enemy at times during a game because Andy would get in a rut. You know, He's like, when start having thoughts about, well,

I don't know.

Man, He's been coaching a long time this league. He's got a Super Bowl ring in Green Bay, So do I.

You know that's how I look at it right now.

Shanahan said, if you're not moving your quarterback, your offense is doomed.

I think, yeah, it's I'm not gonna sit.

I wish that.

Like there's some teams you study that you just like, Wow, that's pretty cool what they just fun Yeah, well that's we talk about San Francisco. Their ability to motion McCaffrey out and then it bumps the corner. It bumps the corner to another guy, and it puts a linebacker on McCaffrey, and then you're now going, uh, okay, they did, and you know they've the Cowboys have the capability of doing stuff like that.

We just don't see it nearly enough.

Well, you see all the weapons and the underutilized weapons, because it's not like it's one of those too many mouths to feed sort of conversations where it's, oh, there's CD Lamb, but.

There's also Brandon Cooks, but there's also Michael Gallop. Ceedee, Lamb is the only one being fed right now.

I think that is it.

That is all you've got from a weaponry standpoint. So I'm with you, Kurt. I think motion. I'm with you, Brian, I think motion.

That helps.

It's not the solve all be all in, but somethings.

I mean, I, hey, there's some there's some creativity there. There's there's some.

It's just it doesn't seem like it's every single down where you're just watching the tape and you're going, they got him on that one. They out schemed him on that one.

Kurt one X factor on the Cowboys offense going into the back half of the season, an X factor, X factor. Who's got to step up and play better.

I hope it's Cooks because they need that second receiver. And I'm not necessarily saying it's Cook's fault. I think going back again to a play calling situation, but they need a second receiver to step up. Hopefully that's Cooks. I don't think it's going to be Gallop. I wouldn't mind even seeing Tober giving a chance.

What do you think, Brian Tyler? I think Tyler beyotdish and I thought he was banged up.

He had the ankle injury and the problems that he was dealing with in training camp.

I thought he was still kind of dealing with that. You know, I'm kind of.

Hearing clean bill of health there, but there's been some really rough games for him the center. When your center is struggling, your offensive line will struggle. And I think he's the one guy that i'd kind of say if you could get him to play in at that once again that high level we saw it happened to him last year, second half of the year. Last year he was a much better player. But I need him to be better at center.

Yeah. For me, I'm gonna go with Tony Pilott on this one.

And maybe it's because he hasn't had as many touches these past couple of games, but I would love to see him get more involved in the offense, whether that's in the passing game, the running game, whatever the case may be. I love the call that Mike McCarthy had. I think I was in the second half when they ran him on a wheel route off the sidelines. I mean, that was a beautiful play call. And he has that ability to mismatch against linebackers, mismatch against safeties. We've seen

I'll say Tyron Smith at the left tackles right because if he continues to struggle one.

It may not be very much longer we'll see Tyron Smith in a Cowboys uniform.

Not because of cut. I think Tyler Smith's ad better tackle myself. That's why. Because the future with a whisper, but kind of yelling at the same time, yelling at the same time.

I think there's ways that Tyrone can be better in the second half.

He's not done. He's got stuff left in the tank.

He's just got to find he's got to find that technique.

He's got to get comfortable back at that tackle spot and continue to do.

You believe he's part of the best five that can going forward. You feel like he's one of the best five.

When he plays at his best.

But you factors in there, health, all that is.

I think they need I think I think Steele needs to play better too. They're all of them. They all take a turn. But your great offensive lineman on the sixty five plays, they have three or four bad plays a game. You just can't have eight bad plays again, correct, That's.

What That's the whole thing.

You have two or three bad plays, that's fine, but you can't have like I said, you can't have six to eight bad plays.

He's still part of the best five.

He is, He's still if you're telling me, it's either Chu my Doga or Tyron Smith at left tackle.

Doga surprised the hell out dog play well but.

Taking Tyron Smith until the very bitter end at that left hack.

Horse Twler at left and then the Doy'll go on the inside.

Okay, we can make something.

I don't know.

We can talk about it. It's very church. You can catch him on the golf course.

Ye, everybody out there at the golf course. Eighteen holes coming up in just a little bit, yes, sir. On Monday, we will break down the defense. I also want to give a state of the rookie class. Are we spoiled as Cowboys fans to the point where rookies have made a massive impact in the past, This year not so much. We're gonna talk about that a little bit on Monday, nine am Central Time when we come back here on talking Cowboys.

This was fun, gentlemen.

Thank you.

One more shuffle show to go, and we'll be back next week to get it all done. Enjoy the bye week, everybody, everybody, stay safe, watch some football.

Over the weekend, and of course we'll be right.

Back at it after the weekend is over for Chris beaming the back, Barry Church, Kirt Daniels, Brian brought us. I'm Kyle Yoman, saying so long from the Star in Frisco. We'll see you on Monday with more Talking Cowboys.

This has been a production of Dallascowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.