Talkin' Cowboys: Some Serious Competition

I guess afternoon. Now, normally we start this show in the morning, but we are just a tad bit behind here on this Monday, but not behind on Cowboys News. We've got plenty to catch up on here from inside the SWBC Mortgage Studios, Kyle Yeoman's, Rob Phillips, Isaiah stand Back and heck Ma Harrison. Gentlemen, it's one final time before training camp. It's crazy that we're all ready to this. Come on, Kyle, this is our last time. I mean, you're just kind of like walking us into the weather.

Getting is the weather getting to you is a smooth dr and B what's going on? I thought that was a pretty hype open. That was good. No, no, come on, it was sad. It was good. It was good. Thank you. I'm just sad that you guys are leaving and we just got back in studio and now we got to wait again, and it's just a whole thing. Now we're gonna catch up here over the next hour and kind of look at OTAs. We're gonna answer some Twitter questions and mail back Monday, and then we're also going to

preview some training camp superlatives. Let's just say that so far in the final segment. But gentlemen, I do want to catch up on OTAs. We got a chance to watch practice last Thursday, which was a ton of fun. And we've had content throughout the week on Dallas Cowboys dot Com showcasing the practices and wanted to get some notes. Heck, but you had another great article. We'll let you start

anything that's stuck out to you. In terms of OTA's last week, we got some competition battles brewing, that's for sure. Cornerback position, it's going to be a war. Can't wait for that. Uh in Oxnard or wherever two of days are going to be still had been an official announcement. I think that is the I know you don't like that pe you know, you know, like, well, I just want to I just want to know that Sin Spence is killing everybody. We've got to know if he can

pack a bag or not. Yeah, if I'm leaving my kid for five weeks, my wife's gonna be mad at me. I just want to know, are you gonna be on the couch now or later? Are you one way or another?

You want to know. But I just think that, you know, the cornerback was linebacker as well, line throw lineback in There's just a lot of position battles that are brewing, and we want to see how this offensive line shapes up, you know, offensive line wise, there's just man a lot ball, you know, want to see beatish uh and those guys. But man, literally, our rookies are showing themselves. Those draft

picks are proving their value. And I can hear Chris Beam in my head saying that this is the underwear Olympics of the OTA. So don't go too far out on the lamb on anybody. But you know, I like what I see Nation, right, I Honda, He's continuously showing that he should have been taken a lot sooner than ninety nine. I'm just wow, Isaiah somewhere in that on

the show. He should be He should have been. So it's just one of those things, man with like like I said, man the battles on defense, but also number twenty our guy. Man. You know, he is showing that he is another bona fide weapon at the running back position. And I know that's kind of one of those things like what when you start talking about running back position, but his bill to you know, be playing multiple roles

in the offense also as a wide receiver. I think Tony Pollard is someone that we have just I don't want to say underestimated, but we hadn't seen his value be actualized. I thought Dak looked really good last week. I mean, now there's a couple of plays on the ball against him, Lat and Banderesh who by the way, it looked really good last week as well. I got a pick on him near the sideline. Kind of scared all of us with getting the win knocked out of

him on that play. It was down for a couple of minutes, but I thought Dak came back hit some really nice throws. I thought he was in rhythm with his receivers. Semi Fohoko, Isaiah had a nice day two weeks ago or last week, a couple catches from Dak, But I just thought I thought number four looked look comfortable. There's still limiting what he's doing. There's still no pass rush in front of him, but you're starting to see the timing with his receivers. I think I think he's

getting more comfortable back there. Oh that's beautiful to hear in OTA's and not necessarily during training camp as well, Isaiah, as long as your mike is working, Yeah, oh there, it is fantastic. Now, So what did you see from practice from an offensive standpoint? I do want to talk receivers coming up in a minute, So maybe outside of receivers, what did you see whenever it came to OTAs Yeah, I think all my attention really goes to the same

thing he pointed out, which were the linebacker committee. I think assault by committee, and I think the secondary. The secondary. You know, this is is pretty inspiring to know that we have this discussion in terms of who is going to be on the roster versus being able to you know, obviously acknowledge a handful of guys that are going to be on a roster. So and now that lets you know that competition has stepped up. There's a lot of guys select from. I mean, the safety position has been

totally transformed. I'm looking forward to seeing how that shakes out. That's not a position that you typically have too much interchanging going on throughout the game versus a cornerback position. There's a lot more rotational aspect to it. So I'm looking forward to see who are going to be our surest safeties and then their backups. I don't I think there's gonna be a handful of guys obviously that are

gonna be disappointed. They're gonna be some disappointments this year in terms of who people think are going to be in a roster at that position and who won't be there. Um and then obviously just at the dB at the cornerback position. I'm looking forward to seeing how these guys roll. I'm looking forward to seeing how they fit in these schemes,

how we match up against opponents going forward. Obviously, uh, these preseason games are gonna be huge in terms of being able to decide who's going to be on this roster and he's looking forward to some competition. Man, it's awesome. I missed out. I missed the name Zeke Zeke. Man.

Zeke is looking quick, sleek, and I mean he's making moves in again it's no contact and just seeing some of the things that he's doing just in one on one drills and I said something about a move that he made on Jalen Smith and they talked about it in special teams as well. It's just, man, he looks, he looks good. He's looking good. You know that from

last year. He wants to get those fumbles and the things that he had against him last year out that bad taste out of his mouth because I believe he led the league and fumbles from the running back position, so I mean six yards away from Eclipse in the thousand. But at the same time, man, those fumbles, Man, it has to be something that's lingering in his mind. Rob. What did you think about Zeke and what you saw

from him? What Ecma said? I think Mickey kind of nudged me during practice and said, does he look does he look more sleek sleek Zeke like you said? And I think so. I mean, but you know what I said that last year. I thought he looked good last year going in the season. It's it's what you said. Heck, it was those fumbles early on that really frustrated him. Got the offense in some bad spots and the defense really no margin for error defensively last year. So your

offense isn't helping you. And then you know, let's not forget he dealt with some stuff down the stretch last year. He played through some things where he wasn't healthy. And I think, I think he's on a mission this show. I know Layton said that to us after practice, and he's on a mission. I think Zeke Zeke's a competitor. I know, I know he got his big contract, but I guarantee you he's not happy with the way he played last year. And the look the line, twelve different

line combinations doesn't help you. That doesn't help you either. I mean, look, I you know, Barry Sanders might have been able to do it in Detroit for a couple of years, you know, during his career, but no matter how good a back is, you've got to have some continuity upfront. The problem was the fumbles. That was the biggest thing. I mean, you can't average one fumble per touchdown rushing like he did last year. That can't happen, I mean, and that's that has nothing to do with

the offensive line. That has nothing to do with your quarterback. I think having Dak back into the fray will help out a lot. And there was a stat that I read this week where Zeke benefit and more with Dak Prescott than without Dak Prescott than any other player on this roster one hundred and seven yards per game from scrimmage with Dak. Without Dak, he was down to seventy six. So that's almost a complete So dat, oh, yeah with

with without that, Yeah, you're exactly right. So he's gonna benefit, and I think he is on that mission that makes that makes sense though, right when you're a passer is no longer a part of the passing game, you turn into a running You turn into a running game. And guess what, all eleven guys on defense know exactly where the ball has to go in order for these guys to get first down. So, I mean, the worst case scenario happened to Zeke last year in terms of at

least him being healthy. If you're a healthy player and you're a running back. Everything that happened last year. Your quarterback went down, your office, a lineman went down, right, You're tight end went down. It was the worst thing that could have happened for Zeke, worst case scenario. So if there was ever a time to say, hey, how bad can they get for Zeke, well you already saw it, so everything else should be up and up for him.

I think when we look back through a season sometimes you know we have kind of the narrative, like we know the running game wasn't what it was, the offense wasn't what it was. If you look a little deeper and you look like I want to say, like back in November early December, the running Game got on track. I think they were averaging like one hundred and fifty yards a game, and Zach Martin, I want to say,

PFF had him as the highest rated run locker. He went down whatever game that was, maybe Thanksgiving, and they didn't get back on track healthy. Zach Martin means so much to the run game. I mean, a pro bowler, a pro bowler, probe, maybe a future Hall of Famer one day, but the yellow jacket on it, I like that. That's okay. I don't disagree the trajectory he's on right now. Certainly Golden jacket words. No, absolutely, I mean he's and and I always kid my uncle and tell him that

Zach Martin would have gave him problems. He better be glad he played in a different era. And he laughs at that. Just remind everybody your own Yeah, come on, man, I think ye man, No, there are new ers too. Don't raise my uncle guy. So if you didn't know that, the great yeah so. But but the other thing about Zeke when we talk about him, and I think he's the big reveal for the defense, you know, like he is, which Zeke you getting? Are you getting Hall to top Zeke?

Are you getting fumble Zeke? You know, Papa balloons, Let's get Hall to top Zeke back in the building. I mean, And for the defense, him being on track is actually going to help these guys. I mean, you look at the fumbles that he had last year, where he had those fumbles in what position that put the defense in You you know football well enough to know when you got a running back that's grinding it out, getting those first downs for you, extended ball position field, all of

those things in time of possession. That makes the game so much easier. And you saw situations where just the Cowboys couldn't get any rhythm at all because Zeke couldn't get any rhythm. It's a great point. And Tony Pollard too, when they asked Tony Pollard to be not the change up necessarily, but like you know, he hit a shoulder. Yeah, more of a load with ze banged up. He struggled too, with a large amount of carries. It's just, you know, it was hard to get things established up front for

a lot of last season. It goes back to the fumbles and then yards per carry. The chunk yardage was better for Pollard, but like you said, in terms of the grand scheme of things, he struggled, but he held on to the football struggles. That's where it really boils down to. Now. We've talked about some of these wide receivers sticking with the offensive side of the football. We've talked about some of the lower wide receivers on the group. I'm going to talk about the big three a little

bit here. The reason why is, first thing I noticed whenever I saw Ota practice on Thursday, I brought out the binoculars. I looked at eighty eight. That man has put on some weight in a good way, like good weight. Oh man, he looks big, he looks strong. The thighs there's a picture online, there's of a story, I believe. I think it's a featured picture on one of the stories on Dallas Cowboys dot com. And his thighs are like the size of this table. Like, I mean, there's

just massive. What do you think the expectation should be for the big three receivers? Is this the chance for Cede Lamb to maybe make it a step up and maybe even be challenging with Amari Cooper in his second year as the number one receiver? Or is Amari Cooper gonna come in and have to keep that mentality of course with an out at the end of his contract. There's a contract here from Michael Gallup. There's a lot of questions around this part of the team. Well, I'm

conceding to the receiver. I mean, I think the expectation is where they kind of where they left off when before Dat got hurt, right, it was just you know, just having a level of consistency and um and these guys you can you can these guys can take you take you out from every angle. And that's essentially what this offense is built to do. Is built to have a consistent running game. Is built to have a quarterback who who's a game manager, who can also can make

plays as well, who has a big arm um. Is meant to no matter who you line up on what your your first dB, your second dB, your third best dB, they're gonna get routed up because our three you're better than your three. Oh and by the way, we have a tight end as well, by the name of jar One who can run by your your fourth best guy. So I mean, so that's what this offense is made to do. So in terms of expectation, I don't have or nor do I put any expectations on one particular person.

I look at how each person is going to positively affect the entire offense and their ability to keep keep on the field. Right, So a time of possession, which is huge, right in terms of your ability to win ball games. We've talked about that a lot last year. But also will be able to continue to move these chains, right, that's what you want to do. So we talk about be able to play complimentary football and helping your defense

out is huge. So if we don't have a balance attack, if we can't keep guys at bay, then we're gonna struggle. But as long as we can keep their running game going, as long as we can keep Dak upright, I think all these guys are gonna eat. Who do you think in the wide receiving corps is best equipped to achieve that? Achieve what I think I think they're all gonna do. I mean, I think I'm saying best out of the out of the group, which one's the best right now?

In that regard, I mean in terms of numbers, in terms of pure numbers, I think Cooper is always going to get them the biggest numbers because I think he's always gonna be the biggest threat. You think, yeah, I mean, but I do. I think that, And I don't want to. I don't want to get killed on this by everybody in the world. But when it comes to numbers, isn't everything.

I'll put it that way. Numbers isn't everything. It doesn't tell the entire story, right, It doesn't tell you the story about how, uh, you know, Amari Cooper goes out here and gets you know, one hundred fifty yards and there in a game, Well, would he got that hundred fifty yards of CD wasn't inside of it? Right? Him lining up and keeping that safety at bay right, keeping those linebackers offer. So so there's a lot of other intricacies that are really go into the game that don't

necessarily always reflect in stats. I agree, I think that's one accurate. But also there are other numbers that do tell a story about who is the better receiver of the two. And that's also called Chacheing money numbers. I mean, the numbers are there for Amari Cooper, and then we're gonna see very quickly here in the next offseason where whether or not those that money is there for Michael

Gallup as well. So I'm gonna ask you the same question, Hackmo, which one of those receivers is best equipped right now to help this team succeed? And I'm asking, is there a chance that it's not Amari Cooper? Yeah, I mean Ceedee Lamb and you you look at Ceedee Lamb and the attention that Amara Cooper is gonna get, like you you pointed out, I mean, teams are gonna just have to pick their own poison on who you're gonna allow

to expose you. But in the second gear, I look for a guy like Ceedee Lamb to make strides, you know, get past that thousand yard level because it's gonna be hard for teams to deal with him one on one. And so you see, it's just ability, it's just acrobatic nature to go up in high point balls. That's what he does a lot better than a lot of NFL receivers. And so I just think Ceedee Lamb is in that

conversation to make the stride in the second year. But let's not gloss over the fact that Michael Gallup has been risp in OTA's and he is. Michael Gallup has just been un you know, like what he's done in this offense is kind of underappreciated by fans and the trade rumors and things like that. So when you talk about a guy being in the contract year and being one of Dak Prescott's favorites, you know amongst the receivering group,

I look for him to do special things too. Yeah, I to your point, like he gets overlooked and the and the I think everybody gets so excited about the draft leading up to the draft. That was a big conversation, like oh, if you you could pick up an extra pick, you know, because maybe you don't resign Gallop next year.

Worry about next year next year, Like you just signed Dak Prescott tw one hundred and sixty million plus, give him the best group you possibly can, make your offense as good as you possibly can, and then just kind of see what happens when twenty twenty two rolls around. But to Isaiah's point, I watched a lot of playoff basketball over the weekend. This receiver core reminds me. It's kind of nets. Like, you know, they all make each

other better. They all compliment each other and help each other get open because of their presence, and so I think from that standpoint, they're all important to each other. Who's the best receiver on the team. Amari Cooper is the best receiver on this team. He's the most consistent receiver on the team. I went back and I think I did a top ten of his best plays of

twenty twenty one. It's a very quiet at times, ninety three catches because it's not always flashy, but he's helping move the chains consistently with four different quarterbacks last year, I think Ceedee Lamb's prime for a big year. I think, do you watch him two times already and you can tell to your point. I think he's gonna be special, and he already is special. I think he did. He was up there in drops last year. You know he missed him He missed some opportunities to make some big plays. Um,

I think he had. I don't want to miss quote it. I want to say it was like nine nine drops. He cleans that up, just like Mike clean that up a little bit for himself last year. Coming off of twenty nineteen, he'll be even better, much better. And I don't think we could totally put all the pressure on the receivers. I know, obviously they're there are ones that

have to go out there and make the plays. But at the end of the day, there's a gentleman who happens to have a massive call sheet larger than the one of Kyle has, and he decides who who's in the best position to make plays on a certain play right against certain schemes. So let's let's not take the take the pressure off of off of Kellen Moore and his ability to be able to call plays that give

these guys the best opportunity to be successful. Oh and by the way, we had this issue in the red zone, right, and there's a guy that they brought in by the name of mac do right, so let's see what effect that he has over these guys and their abilities to score points in a zone, because this conversation might change when we see that. Trying to start controversy, I just said, I look at it. I went back and looked at the numbers red zone wise between Kellen Moore and Ben

McAdoo during their times as offensive coordinators. As an offensive coordinator, McAdoo was way better than Kellen Moore in the red zone, just average per career. As a head coach, actually, McAdoo was not as good as Kellen Moore in the red zone. So that's just kind of an interesting tidbit. But going back to the wide receivers, I completely agree with what

you guys said. I still think it is Amari Cooper and then it's two A to B. I mean, whichever one has a better game is ultimately is going to end up looking like between Cede Lamb and Michael Gallo. And I don't you know, we talked about the fourth and fifth receiver spots. We just I don't think we remember how active those Cedric Wilson and Noah Brown were in this offense. I mean there were several situationally where you know, Cedric Wilson was you know, the targeted several times.

And so that's a big part of our offense that hasn't been figured out. If we're gonna go back to save Wilson there, if one of these undrafted free agents gonna make a push or see me for Hoko, it's gonna I mean, yeah, so we're gonna have a fourth and we're gonna have a fifth receiver. Yes, right, that's that's that's facts. Right. It's let's act as if our guys are never gonna get hurt. Okay, let's act that, which is I pray for that right? Yeah, that sounds correctly.

That's the NFL's reality is probably not it, but okay, so say we row with you with these three, right, we got our big three, right, and then we throw in said Wilson, Noah Brown or for Hoko or whoever else Mike's want to compete for that spot. What's the reality that those that those number four, number five we're

gonna get on the field. If jar one's healthy, not a lot exactly right, So we start looking at that, right, So number four, number five, you might get in there to to I mean, receivers are not coming off the field most times now in a league. They're just not, especially if they can hire to hire pay guys Coop, guys like that. They're not coming off the field. So if if I bring on number four in the game,

he's probably coming into block. It's probably coming to block, or he's coming to take the top off, right, and if he happens to blow by the guy, I'm gonna throw it up to him, right, like we've seen Cedry Wilson do. He did it against Seattle again Seattle, absolutely right. It was a perfect example because in that game, specifically, Amari Cooper didn't have as many snaps, and so Cedric Wilson came in and played the same thing down the

stretch with Noah Brown. They would come in and they would take one of those receivers off the field, whether they were having an ailment or they just needed a breather, and those guys would come in as the fillers. And that's all you need them to be sure. Absolutely So I'm just I'm curious to see with a healthy big four. I'll call it because out there, Jar went in there with a healthy big four. What are the opportunities that are presented to these guys and how spread out is

this ball going to be? Because we have not seen this offense. Will all four of those guys on a consistent basis go throughout even a four game span? Yeah, that's interesting. I thought about that because I feel like Noah Brown and said earned spots in the rotation to y'all's point, but if Jar, who's kind of he's not a receiver, but he has receiver type skills, maybe that changes the rotation or the availability of snaps because because

Dalton Schultz two is probably gonna be. But I see it like, I mean, look, I love Jar and I think he's a you know, he does a great job receiving, but I think we only got a sample size of it, obviously with him getting hurt in the first game. But I think with the way that Kellen Moore's scheme is he goes to the three by one set with wide receivers and not the tight end, and even when he goes to a twin set, you know, it's you know, I'm just saying I agree, but how much is Drawing

getting paid per year? It's not a ton. It was three years, twenty two mil. He got a nice contract. Yea four years. Yeah, it's healthy. He's getting just over five. He's gonna get the ball. He's getting paid to play, so he's gonna get the ball. And one years gone, right, he's gonna get I say all that to say, the business side of it says he's gonna get the ball. So that's that's what I'm talking about it, right. They're not going to just have him on the roster, just

another guy. That's that's all. I'm getting a point. If Jarl's getting him, he's on a roster, they're gonna find a way to give him the ball inconsistently, and Schultz is still on his room. Shultz is still gonna be there too. So two set all that jazz, right, but trust me, it's gonna be our three, our three goals receiver, and trust me, Jarlon's gonna find they're gonna find a way to get him their rock. So that's another that's

another sixty balls, seventy balls gone. It's this is kind of a surprising stat but the Cowboys last year led the NFL with eighty one dropped passes. You remember that last year, though eighty one since twenty nineteen. They have three players with tim plus drops since I guess over the past two seasons. They're only thirty two players in the NFL, and the Cowboys have three of them. That's a Marii Cooper, Michael Gallup, and Ezekiel Elliott. He has

fourteen drops since twenty nineteen. Seed Lamb, by the way, had nine last year. So drops are an issue. It doesn't necessarily take away from how good this receiving corps is because there's still an elite receiving corps and probably with Dak Prescott back in the mix, I don't think those numbers are as inflated as they were a year ago.

But we'll talk plenty more about the wide receivers whenever training camp comes around, because there is a battle for that fourth, that fifth spot at wide receiver, maybe even if they want to put a sixth on the roster in terms of the special teams as well. But when we come back, you're on talking Cowboys. We're gonna try and predict who will start the year and in the year at corner pack based off of a Twitter question.

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that's true, honestly, yeah, that's not far off. But second segment here of Talking Cowboys, our final show prior to training claims camp. It does. So glad everybody's been with us though, I mean, I know this is this has been the first year with the new crew and everything, and we I mean, we feel like everybody that listens to this show is family. Really. I mean, it's a Talking Cowboys nation, no doubt about it, and we love every single one of you, and we appreciate every time

you listen, you share, you like, you follow anything. We definitely appreciate it because we have a ton of fun talking cowboys with you guys, and hopefully we're able to learn something along the way. As you guys learned some stuff along the way, because I learned from these guys every single day. But Rob, there are some mail bag questions we've got to get to. It's mailbag Monday time, and I got some Twitter questions this week. Okay, we're gonna start things off with a combo question this from

Dan and Mike. I'm gonna throw Mike Crumb in there because he's a loyal listener and he was he wanted to be a part of this question too. Try and predict how the Cowboys will start and in the year with the starters at the cornerback position. So of course there's been quite a few changes throughout. But at the same time, right now, it looks like the starters might be the same as what we saw in twenty twenty one.

Shoudobe a woozier. But is there any big change that you see on the horizon at the moment, it's no, it's Treyvon Digs, it's Anthony Brown, and it's Jordan Lewis, And I very well could see that happen in week one. Now, that doesn't mean you drafted two young players that have a lot of talent. Doesn't mean by the end of the year, that might look different. We talked to me,

just talk about receiver. You could you could have guys earning spots within rotation get some snaps, but I definitely could see them leaning towards veterans at that spot, like Isaiah has been saying all along, like you guys didn't love the idea of going corner in the first round because you'd be awfully young. It's your corner spots. They'd be awfully young if they if they if Kelvin Joseph or Nashan Wrights started week one. But hey, that's what

camps for. We'll find out. So okay, so we're gonna go around and give our starters, and then we're gonna talk about who we think might be there at this end of the year. So starters for you, Isaiah, starters, I think just what just what Rob Pie said, and the same guys from last year. Obviously we got Jay lou A Brown and Trayvon Diggs. I'm going to say, I've just seen him compete, and definitely Anthony Brown and

Treyvon Diggs would be in that conversation. And also Jordan Lewis, based off what I've seen so far, well, I'm based off of following the money, right, that's what you're told, follow the money. And Jordan Lewis signing his new deal as well, I'm right there with you after he signed his three year, thirteen and a half million dollar contract. Jordan Lewis, I think is a starter at the moment, He's gonna start in the slot. Anthony Brown will be on the outside, Trayvon Diggs will be on the outside

as well. Those are my three there. I think you're gonna see a heavy dose of Calvin Joseph, especially early on. I think you're gonna see exactly what he has pretty quickly. Outside or inside. That's what I was about to ask you, honestly, because you might be inside. He could go either way. I think he's versatile enough and I think he's skilled enough to do so. But I think that I think the first thing you do is put him on an inside, especially especially week one. Why do you think he would

be better inside? He's quick, he's shifty, he's more, he's more. As we're as this defense is starting to change, you can you can see the direction at this secondary starting to go in. We're most likely going to have two six four safeties just call it how that is, sorry if that was thinking. Yeah, I mean, there's there's a chance that we have two six four safeties on his

on his roster. Um there's also I don't know if you guys have been paying attention, but we have some tall cornerbacks now as well, right right, Um, so, um, you got Digizua, you know, obviously you got some guys that could that could put some hands on some people. Um, we have size. So when you start looking at kind of how and Quinn is starting to scheme up this this defense in the secondary, he wants one side somebody who can just lock you down or stay in your

hit pocket the whole time. He wants on another side where they can put their hands in your chest right well, on the inside where that's where the teams are going to try to hide there. They're shifty guys, So guess where you put your shifty guy on the inside side. So that's why you that's why, Um, that's what I believe. I believe that he's he's he's kind of getting kJ or you know, Kevin Jones. I think he's getting him ready, um to play both. But I think primarily he will

have the biggest impact on the inside for this team. Yeah, I like Kelvin Joson on the inside. But you know it's gonna be it's gonna be a serious undertaking. Right now, Jordan Lewis is playing with that sense of urgency that we talked about. These guys know that they're on the hot seat, and with signing those contracts that the pressure intensifies to perform because you've been rewarded in a sense. And so but Kelvin Joseph again, follow the money and

the draft pick. He was picked it in the second round, and and there are not a lot of teams that lit the second round draft pick sit on the bed. They're gonna put that guy in and see exactly what he has. And we're gonna get a full serving of Kevin Kevin Joseph in the preseason. We'll find out if

he can play or not. But NationAn Wright is the one guy in this whole equation that I think, you know, more people need to start paying attention to because at the end of the year, we're looking down the line, it may be a situation where that third round pick is the one that you're talking about more than the second. Yeah,

I was just kidding. Yeah, that's where I was going because Chris or CBS on vacation, Yep, Scott and Aaron just rolled a lot of highlights of Sean Wright, and we watch practice, he gets an interception, We watch practice, he gets a pick. I get it. It shorts, it's pajamas, it's all that stuff. But there's a long way to go. You put the pads on, you got you gotta go through the grinder camp. You gotta show out. Um. But if this keeps up, he's gonna be on the field.

I already feel like he's on the team. You know, he's dan Quinn wants to develop him. There's no question about it. He's the top three round pick. But there's a third round action. But maybe he's playing this year, you know, if he if he can continue to show this and continue to develop again, very very very early. M That's that's intriguing because based off how you felt about the pick, Yeah, you're right, I was not. I was nowhere close to where I am right now with

Naean right now. Of course, after the draft, we went and we watched film and we said, Okay, we see the fit, but is he good enough? And right now he's like you said, he's showing out with what we've been able to see in the very very very small sample size. The preseason is going to be huge for both of those guys. Sure, the first couple of weeks of the season are going to be gigantic for both of those guys. But we saw it last year with Treyvon Diggs. Premium secondary picks are going to see the

field now. Trayvon Diggs was thrown into a tough situation where he had to start because of the injuries to shadobe E Wuzier and because of the lack of availability with Anthony Brown at times. Trayvon Diggs was thrust it into that starting job by the necessity of having it. There's not that at least right now. Hopefully that stays the case. Hopefully everybody stays healthy. There's not that necessity right now. So it'll be interesting to see how they

finish up. How do you feel like they'll finish up, prop I mean, I'm with Heck. I think if Kelvin Joseph is not a walk in starter, I think he's gonna be playing by the end of the year if he if he's on track the way they think he can be and we haven't seen a lot of him so far. I think he'll be playing quite a bit. I just to y'all's point, like he's a second round pick. They have a lot of a bill belief in him. Like Isaiah said, he's got some flexibility, he can he

can play insider out. He's going to be on the field. I'm pretty confident of that. Now. I want to ask this in the end of the table, do you guys want to put a pick in here? Is Nashan right going to start at least one game by the end of the year. Yes, wow, okay, yeah, absolutely, especially as you started facing somebody these larger receivers. Heck you you think he'll be right there? Heck you? Okay, yeah, yeah, I think Hey, no more, we don't have to face

Julio Jones anymore. That's a celebration. Hey how about that. That's a whole right, there's a steal. That's a giveaway. Thank you. Flea market is what the type picked out. But you know, national right again, not getting overly excited about it. We have to get to camp to see what he can do. But I just believe in dan quinn Man. He is as advertised the way that you talked about him, the energy that he approaches practice with the guy's interaction with dan Quinn, I mean, his involvement.

And from one point he's down with the defensive lineman. The next thing you know, he's on the other side with the cornerbacks. Like wait a minute, he was just you know, and so he's got a teleportation device on the field. There's no way he got from one side to well, how did you get down there? You know, And he's and just the competition that he's reading, the culture that you talked about. These guys are competing, and

you look at last year. I mean, it's at a certain point we're gonna get to the point where we're not talking about twenty twenty anymore. Right, But still, when you go back to the fact that guys couldn't play fast because they didn't understand alignment and assignment, they didn't know where they were. There were two guys in one

area and a guy running free. Right. So I think the simplified approach to dan Quinn's defense and just his involvement, hands on approach, I think that's gonna make the difference in the secondary. I don't know if he starts unless there's an injury. But look, everybody's got to be ready because you need four good corners in today's NFL at least. And Anthony Brown's missed I think thirteen games the last

two years. Cheeto missed some games last year, not on the roster anymore, Jordan missed the opener, so you have to have some depth there. Richard Robinson started a couple of games I think last year, so it's possible. It's possible you might see the rookies in the starting lineup. And as we're talking about, you know, the guys don't have pads on yet, understand right, and just take her for somebody who's who's been been through it a little bit. OTAs is harder on dbs than it is some receivers.

So when the pads get on, whatever the dbs are doing, usually he gets better, especially physical dbs. Right, So when you talk about guys like night National right, who get up there in your face and they put their hands on your chest, guess what, it's a little bit harder when they're slipping the sliding on shirts that they really get you know what I'm saying. Right, when you get up there and you got some pads on. Now I can I can now I can grab you. Yeah, now

I can grab you. Now I can punch you in your chest without the coach thinking I'm a hurtybody one. Right, So what as good as you guys are seeing Nashan b right now, it's only going to get better. Hopefully, I hope that's the case. Just continue this ending there's but in the as we're talking about the secondary, I personally think this might be a curveball. I think the

safety position is more competitive than a cornerback position. Okay, why is that because you brought into veterans curse you brought you brought in three veteran Yeah, I mean, well whatever here you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, so and then you factor in the fact that you brought in curse, right, um, and then Wilson's not going anywhere, he's gonna be there. Well, we know he's gonna be there, So you have you're

only gonna carry four safeties. Yeah yeah, so you got you got the two six four jokers, right, you got Israel I like Israel, right, and you got Darien Thompson in there. I mean, like the safety position is very competitive now, and it's harder to show your abilities at safety. Right when you're talking about practice and evaluating things of that nature, it is very difficult to evaluate a safety skill set and what he's gonna be able to attribute to your team because guess what, a lot of times

you're not being challenged. It's not corner it's not being challenged as much. Right, so preseason games become in becomes you know, very instrumental in terms of being able to tell who can ball. And that's not a position that you usually rotate out, like like I mentioned earlier in the show, cornerback and guess what, Hey, you go out there at heck, you get you a couple of players, Bore, I'll get your body, all right, Kyle, get up in there all right. Rob, you gonna get you some reps too, right,

safety position, you're not doing that. Yeah, So how difficult it's gonna be for these guys to determine who's going to have the most contributions to live to this roster? Now, I really think that's interesting that you bring that up about the safety position because I believe that there are a lot of guys have they've been living on potential, yes, right, and that potential at some point has to come to a maturity day. And the maturity day is due now,

So who are some of those guys? I think Thompson definitely has has lived on potential for a while, especially last year. But I think that you know, but there's gonna be you know, return on investment. It's time, you know, they put enough into him where he can give them something. You got a lot of bad tape out there if you're Thompson that you just look, you got to overcome

that with the preseason. Yeah, I mean I would lean towards Kiz just because when Bill Parcels came in, he had the Parcels guys absolutely, Quinn guys that are here, uh, donovand Wilson, I would think is a start of what we've seen. Curse would take some reps a lot um early on. That was also because Wilson wasn't necessarily available. Yeah, and it's voluntary. And now so say, but we had two guys locked, right, say we got Kiz and we got those two were locked. I think we all can

pretty much way better about that. But even we had last So let's say say those two guys are locked, who are next to you? Gotta keep two more. I would say Curse and Mukuama at least right now, right this very second, that's where I would put it. Dan Thompson maybe yeah, I mean don't know. I don't disagree. I just I think there's a lot of dudes. Yeah you think, do you agree with it? Because he's gonna come down to special teams too, It's really gonna come

down to special teams. Special can help special teams. Thompsons can't help you there. Um, But you start looking at and then you look at start looking at the special teams. But do you start looking at guys like like Israel? Right, because I'm a big fan of him. Okay, he's six to four. He could play special teams and he wants to play special teams. Right, that's where him and Thompson can really come in, right. They both want to play on the teams. They want to have an impact there.

But this way, if if I'm if I'm Dan Quinn, somebody wants to throw the ball over the top, I want to six four. I want a six four guys, Yeah I had that length? Yeah yeah, because he's only what five eleven, he's not very big. How big is Curse? How tall is Curse. They view him is kind of a special not specialty, but a guy that can cover tight ends. And he's a special teams He's been a

special team's core guy everywhere he's been. So who has better footwork because he for sure, at least based off of what I've seen in OTA's now And I did tweet this out the other day. Let me gets really quick, because he's played. You're You're one hundred percent right the I tweeted out the other day in my Ota notes that I wasn't impressed with Curse. It was the footwork and just pace. That's those are both things that can be fixed by the time even training camp comes around.

So those are very very temporary things. He didn't necessarily like that job of discussion. Yeah we did. We had a little get together on that one, and I mean I told him, I was like, dude, it's just Sota's, no big deal. You're gonna be fine. It was just an observation and so it was quick, a quick little conversation. I do believe Curse will be on the team. I think he will be on the team. And the reason why is also the day after that practice, I mean,

he had another good practice from what I hear. I mean, we weren't able to watch it, but I hear there were good things that that that next practice. So maybe it was just a a bad day. And hopefully that's the case, because I want him to succeed in that regard and I think he will be on the team. But you're right, then it comes down to Thompson. Is Thompson a good enough special teams player to keep around now to play safety? Competition? Competition, that's everything. That's everything

we've been asking for. It's mukuamu. And by the way, this is I don't see, I do not Yeah, you can cut him. Yeah, he's just he's long, he has great footwork. Right, he's a sixth round pick. It's not like they have anything invested. He gets flex. He's a college cornerback exactly, who can help either spot. His footwork shows that he was a cornerback. We showed last year though with Reggie Robinson that same exact wasn't I know, but it wasn't valued the same way. So why do

you think it will change. We haven't brought because he's taller. No, we haven't brought. Well, I think he's just a better player. Yeah, I think he's a better athlete. Reggie Robinson was a fourth round pick though, and Mcam, I completely understand that. I'm just looking at god man for man, I think you got a better athlete. And is it you, Dogie Robins? Is that just recency bias? Or is that legitimate? Like side by side? Is that what you see? What else? Can what else do I have to judge it by?

I mean when I look on the field. Yeah, when I look on the field and I look at both of those guys, Reggie Robinson, no disrespect. He looks like another guy out there different. Yes, yes, stands out substantially, not on his side and his and his and just his stature right. But but also, like I keep going back to his footwork. You don't get that footwork at that size of player. You do not. It's not common. It is not a it's not normal for guys to

be that big and have that kind of footwork. Now, when you get the pads on, let's see how he hits. Let's see is he gonna bring it when he gets some pads on. Right when we get to the when Pittsburgh game and some of that, maybe he doesn't play that much in Pittsburgh game, but some of the other games. Is he gonna come up and put it and hit somebody? That's when you get to tell, Okay, if this boy can hit, oh, he has to be on his team. How hard is it to play safety as a rookie

in this league? For what they're gonna ask him to do. I don't think it's that hard. He'd be a special teams guy. Yeah, But to get in the lineup, would you do you? I mean, do you think you can compete for that spider? I think they just trying to develop him and getting ready for I think, at at probably any position. Make sure I stand behind this statement more than any position in football. I think it's easier to be to make the roster as a backup safety.

I go with that just based off of developmental yes, potential, yes, okay, and he's everything that your future needs. I mean, we spent a lot of time talking about Errol Thomas and a lot of other guys coming in in safety, and if you got a young dog on your roster, you know you could you could bury that whole conversation right now. The guy you got you need is already on your roster and I'm taking a step further. You know, in dan Quinn's system, the guy that's that free safety, he's lurking.

I mean he can. There's so many different ways that you can use your free safety sideline. The sideline in this system, and you talk about four that with feet like his, he's covering a lot of ground quickly. So I mean it's gonna be, like I said, when these guys get to two of days, it's gonna be a battle. How tall is somebody's six four when they put both arms, Uh, they're tall shack size. I'm not gonna say that's a hard ball to get. I'm just saying, you know you're

coming from depth, where you're coming from depth. We get that dude run a side on the side line and he goes up to go grab the ball. Right, you factor in his vertical plus it's probably what we call it nine feet. He puts his arm up, called it nine feet, kay, right when he jumps up, Dude, that's that's that's huge. It's huge. Are gonna make me get out my arm length on my my draft for uh? For guys like Mukuamu. That's why I think because he

though based off at heckmus point. That's why I think he's going to be the starter at safety, and now we've we've named our entire starting secondary in this segment. So that's why I think he will be the starter because of what dan Quinn expects out of free safety and what he could potentially be. So that's where I'm at. Ultimately, Now, when we come back Talking Cowboys, We're gonna keep talking about expectations, managing expectations heading into training camp since this

is our final show. But what are the expectations for Dak returning from surgery. We're gonna hit that next when we come back on Talking Cowboys. The Cowboys Way, we're sixteen Hall of Famers and five championships, shows us what success looks like. Where turkey is always the second best part of Thanksgiving Day, where we are all defined by one single thing, the star, where we as fans know

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see dealer for details. Now let's get to work to Talking Cowboys from home or you're cheering in the stands. With lenses you can see every exciting play book an appointment at your local or experts and see what selor can do for you. See more, do more on Talking Cowboys. Chris Beam is not here so yet Shot, I didn't throw too Scott. It's uh, that's the thing good. See more, do more or there we go. Now we've got the camera change fantastic Scott Pursell in the back running things

this week running the ship. Chris Beam is looking like the pharmaceutical commercial right now, running on the bags. He'll play a cornhole, yea plenty of corp. Yes he does. He deserves a vacation. That was heck Ma Harrison, Rob Phillips, Isaiah stand back. I'm Kyle Yeomen's final segment of Talking Cowboys prior to training camp, and we'll be back, of course whenever the season starts getting ramped up again, and then then we get to go all day, every weekday.

How about that? I love it back to normal. So I got another question that we didn't get to hit in the first I guess mail back Monday question or a segment I should say, Kenneth ask on Twitter out of surgery, what are realistic expectations for mister Dak Prescott. As we know Cowboys fans will always have those insanely high expectations, But what do you think is legitimately feasible? Do you think that there is a legitimate I guess

roll back on what we should expect from Dak? And I think this is a great way to cap off the off season of shows. Mister Rob Phillis will start with you. I think he's gonna be Dak. I really, I really believe that the only thing that would hold him back is if he's having problems with that ankle, and there's been no indication that that's going to be an issue for him. So if he's got his offensive line. He's got wide receivers to throw too, He's got a running back to hand it off to. Oh wait, he

has all those things. Yeah, So I think he's gonna be the moment he has at the moment. At the moment, he does. But we've also seen him win games and put up big numbers without starting tackles. I mean, he can do it with some guys missing. But to me, aside from just getting his timing down and getting some of the rust off, I expect him guys to be just like himself. Out of one hundred percent, you could go higher if you think he's gonna be better, you could go lower. Where do you think he would be?

I think he's got a chance to go higher based off potential health around him. I think I think he does. I just know, just everybody you talked about how hard he works, and I know that might sound cliche, but I just know that he's gonna put himself in position to be as best as he can be. And he's he hasn't missed a day of rehab. He's been here, he's been doing everything he's been asked to do and more.

I think he's gonna be fine. I really, I truly believe that, you know, to Kenneth to answer you a question, I expect Dak to be a dog this year. I don't expect game manager Dak. I expect for Dak to be playmaker Dak. You know. I think he's been rewarded by the franchise to show that, you know, the value that they place on him, which is a whole lot, you know, and he realizes, like he said, pressure is a privilege in the in the press conference, and I just look for him to take those strides to be

on that next level. I talked about him being cerebral and getting into those upper echelon the quarterbacks in the league. I think that's what he's looking at. I'm thinking that he's thinking MVP level play. He has all of the weapons, mean, more weapons than anybody, so he has every reason to be successful and he should be, you know, chomping at the bit to have this opportunity to compete in twenty twenty one. Yeah, I agree. I think I think the

expectations UM should be the same. Um. I'm probably the only person that doesn't think that he's one hundred percent right now. I think, No, I'm with you, okay, but it's not by a lot. I don't think it's gonna be a massive drawback. It's not a massive drawback. I'm looking forward to seeing him in the preseason. I'm looking forward to seeing him in the prema. We're not playing Dack in the preseason. What's the matter? You have to play much, not a little bit, series, not a lot,

but you do. You need to see because it's one thing to to put somebody in the situation, and I don't want everybody get mad at them. Just being real, Okay, it's one thing to happen with him. I'm saying, what much else? Y'all know I always do. He um right now, he's kind of it's a protective bubble, right, they have he has a bubble around. He's bubble. He's a bubble boy right now, right, and like it's signed bold episode. Right. He's done amazing job. He's amazing. He's done amazing job.

He works hard. I've seen him work hard, right, I've seen him doing all the training stuff with Britt and that does grinding, right, grinding. He's doing everything possible to be one hundred percent deck, even when he feels like he is one hundred percent. He's still not one hundred

percent until he reacts, right. He hasn't reacted yet. And when I say that, as I'm talking about a defensive lineman, he right coming off the end, right, dipping and ripping on on somebody and then coming at his ankles right and being able to actually like plant instinctively and get that get out of it right. Everything that he's doing right now is boot out this way, boot out that scripted. Right, it's very scripted, That's what I'm saying. It's a bubble right,

it's kind it's kind of protected out. They're building his confidence very very much so that they should they have to do that, but he won't be a hundred and he knows this until he actually has to react and avoid some defenders and go out there and make some place. Once he does that, he'll be one hundred percent physically and mentally. That's really interesting he said that because I mentioned that psychological element last week, and he said that

about a month ago. That's when he started getting more and more confidence, like I'm good, I'm back, and he said some of the stuff he's doing rehab because he's still in the rehab process to a certain extent is reactive stuff, not not all scripted. But until somebody's chasing and he wants to knock you to the ground and knock you on your ass, Yeah, you know that's that's a different story. Sure, until you're facing other teams that want to do what happened in Week five of last

year to you as a quarterback. I mean, that's the plane the one hundred percent reason I think you put this beautifully, Isaiah, because I'm not it's not necessarily Dak who I'm not one hundred percent on. It's just the situation because he will get to one hundred percent. I'm confidence it will get to that point, but it's gonna take a minute. It may take a game, it may take the preseason. Who knows. It could also take three or four games to get back into that rhythm. Hopefully

it's shorter than you think. Hopefully it just takes the preseason and then by the time you face the Bunk Buccaneers on Thursday night Week one, you feel much better about it and he's able to react and have that same kind of instinct. But it's it's a change. And then plus on top of the injury, anytime you take a significant amount of time off from your job, doing it a certain way, and doing it without question question mark in the back of your head. You're going to

have an adjustment period. That's why knocking off the rust is such a cliche in sports. There's going to be a little bit of rust with Dak Prescott. It's just whether or not how quickly he can get rid of that and knock it off. Yeah, I'm I'm all into limiting exposure right now, and I believe that we're gonna give bubble boy. We got it right now, We're gonna stay with that. But the thing is is that I want I want. I mean, you know that he's a

pro's pro. He knows how to prepare for games now, and it is going into a sixth season, so that's weird six six season, so an Zeke. Yes, So it's not a situation. He's not in a situation where he doesn't know what to expect, what's going to happen. Yes, last year was a one off, but as far as guarding him and getting him two week one, that's that's what I'm all about. But I also believe in what

you're saying. You know, his health psychologically, where he is once he feels that pressure when someone rolls up on his ankle. What if someone has him in the grasp and you know that Dak, with all that strength that he has me, he looks like the heavyweight champion of the world. Right now, He's still gonna be Dak. He's gonna run through all of those things. I don't see

him changing his game. No, I don't either. But to your point, that's a difficult thing, right, that's a difficult position you're in as not only a head coach, but as a GM and area everybody else who makes decisions around here is you have to protect him, right and your your job is to get him to a situation where he can help you win ball games. At the same time, he knows he's not one hundred percent until he overcomes those hurdles. He knows it. You mean, do

you mean physically or men mentally? Just it's physically. I can't check that box to say that I'm one hundred percent until I react to a couple of things instinctively on the field. I could feel as good as I want to, but I can't check that box until Kyle's jumping out my dog on ankles and I hit him with the U nasty you know what I'm saying, like, no,

you okay? Now now back, I'm back. All the brown drills bands I want to, right, and I've done those personally, I've done those and you feel good, right, But there's still that question mark. There's a freaking question mark in your head. Man, The dog on riddler is in there, and you just gotta and you have to do your

best to react to them. Once you do, all right, I'm good physically, and guess what, now, I could check the mental box too, because now I can, right, I don't have to question whether or not I'm healthy right now. We talked about this with Laton Vanderesh last year. He did that hit. Oh when we got it against Dalvin Cups against Minnesota. That's when Layton Vanderesh came in and said, bam, I'm back now. He ended up getting I don't want that. I don't want that hit. I don't want that. No,

But that's the same thing about that I said. I said, Vanderesh could look as good as he wants to, he can feel as good as he wants to, but until he has to step up in a hole. And what happened we were watching the game live together and I said, oh, here we go. It is here we go boom, and

that what happened that had to come out the game. Yeah, he had come up the game, but that but that let him know, Oh, that box is not checked yet his box with as good as he felt, that box was not checked because mentally he frowze up right and physically he wasn't ready. And those are two things that you cannot do. No, we're talking about the hit and then yeah, see and I was thinking when he finally when he came back from that, yeah, and he was like, okay, now I am back and he hit put the hits

on goal line against Dalvin Cook. That was the positive one, right, Yeah, I'm talking about the first week. Great point. There's two one, hun. You could go back to both of those plays negatively against the Rams, positively against the Vikings in the middle of the season. That's the way that it works on a player that is second time checkerbox, second time check first time. He did not question. That's a great point.

And I don't think there's a better way to close out the show in that regard, because that's that's what Dack's gonna have to go through and we're gonna see it of course here over the next couple of months, but until we come back, I'm talking cowboys, uh in the middle of training camp. We're not exactly sure when those shows will start, but we will have plenty of content on Dallas Cowboys dot com. At my Harrison's now writing for Dallas Cowboys dot com. Chet He's doing a

great job. Yeah, go check it out. He's got Thursday notes who turned heads on Thursday on the website. He does a great job with that. He'll do some more writing as well. I don't want to leave, Kyle, I know. I don't want to leave. I don't want this to leave. I don't want this to be Oh I can't. I don't have a live guys like so, we just got to come back next Monday. Even if we don't do a show, it's gonna be you in here. It's not even gonna be anybody camera. That's me. I'm gonna be

right back here doing the symphony in your head. He's doing it in the dark. Oh man. Rob of course is doing great stuff on Dallas Cowboys dot com. Anything crazy coming up you, You've got a couple big things on your plate. I don't know if you can do big things. Deep Blue is back. Finish Yeah, I need to. I don't have a life either. I gotta finish that. So before any type I can even think about vacations. You need a voice. You need a voice or something.

Holedge Boy will so the Soultry voice. So heck my hand smooth. Then Isaiah is doing great stuff as always. We've got a new show debuting on Thursday, Hit Sticks. Oh. I didn't realize that that was getting debuts on Thursday. Yes, Oh, it's already done. I didn't know about it. We've got episodes one and two. They're gonna come out every Thursday up until That's where I'm gonna get that twenty dollars from. You want to you want to explain with what Hit Sticks is. I'm on it with But I thought he

got tossed man. But it's good to hear that we're rolling with it. Um now, Hit Sticks essentially we're myself, Bury Bury Church and Uh and mister kay Kate why Uh. We're doing a show where in which we are teaching the game through the lens of former players. But we're teething it using Madden Wow, using technology using technology sports Baby came up with that concept needs a raise. Absolutely, they do. Absolutely. It definitely wasn't me. I'm the producer

of it, but I think Eric was the one. Eric already has a RAI. But we've we've got plenty of content if you want to keep up with us. He's at Heckma Underscore Harrison, he is at I am stand Back on Twitter, Rob Phillips three on Twitter, and then I'm at Kyle Underscore Yeoman's. But that's gonna do it for us, this on Talking Cowboys. We will be back in about a month or so training camp on the way.

But until next time, for all these guys, for Scott Purcell, Chris Beam who's not here, we're gonna thank them anyway. As Aaron Gonzalez, Happy birthday Aaron. By the way, I'm Kyle Yeoman saying so long. We'll see you next time. I Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.