Talkin' Cowboys: Secondary Or Front Seven?

a little bit, I forgot com I'm right here. You guys can't see me, but I'm with you. See, I'm still reeling for what we just talked about off air right before the show started. So I'm recovering from that. Yes you are. You are da literally and figurative. Nah, pleasure with us here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. We are having a ton of fun already all over the place.

I think is safe to say early in the show, but I wanted to kind of get into things really quickly because we only have an hour, and of course, everybody tunes into the show to hear about the Dallas Cowboys, and we're gonna talk about them Dallas Cowboys. But first we got to talk about this virtual off season, because today is the officials start of the virtual off season

as implemented by the NFL. At least at the moment it's been caused, it has caused a huge divide between the NFLPA, the players, and then also the owners in the league. Every part of this off season is voluntary, except for the June mini camps. But Rob, why does this cause problems amongst the NFL? Why does it cause problems? Yeah? Well, I mean there's questions about whether from the player side,

whether it's really needed to have. And I think there's different viewpoints based on how long you've been in the league. If you're a veteran guy, you probably hate doing this in the spring. And Isaiah, I'm sure you can speak to this and so and part of it too is the pandemic. Part of it is their own research on the NFLPA side that says, look, injuries were down. We think quality of play went up based on the Cowboys experiences. I don't know if you could say that's the case,

but there's you know, there's viewpoints on different sides. I think from the NFL side, it's like, look, you're gonna have to work out somewhere this spring, and we've shown a commitment to having safe protocols in place, especially here at the Star. You know, they really were able to mitigate risk with COVID and that'll be continue to be the case. So it just comes down to what team's comfort level is, what players comfort level is. It is voluntary.

As you said, the Cowboys have not come out through the NFLPA and announced anything with their players saying look, we're not going to do this. So I think you can expect to see probably a good amount of Cowboys out here getting work in this spring, just like they always do. Cowboys never announced how much, but I think you're going to see a pretty good number, just like

they always do. Now, I want to get Isaiah's, of course, former player opinion on this in a second, But heck, before we get to that, we talk about these Cowboys coming in and having that virtual off season. I mean, of course last year being a virtual off season and put the Cowboys behind the eight ball with a new

coaching staff. So how crucial is it for this team to kind of find a rhythm around Mike McCarthy through the off season and once again not being able to be in the building or at least not the majority of the players being in the building should be a little bit of an issue, right, Yeah, it absolutely should.

I was last year. You look at all of the you know, things that coach Mike McCarthy tried to build through the virtual all season and you realize that there was a disconnect, especially with the product that was on the field. I mean it was if it cost us nowhere else, but on the defensive side of the ball, that was it was apparent that the off season work out and Mike coach mc nolan then defensive coordinator him

not being able to implement his scheme. But I get I'm very uncomfortable with this topic because I think that the players have dug in on something as it relates to COVID and the pandemic and basically saying that they want to make sure for the safety, for their safety, that they're not you know, putting themselves at any more risk for exposure. But then there's another side of this.

There's another side where there's a guy that's fighting for that fifty third spot that wants to be a part of all season, that's fighting tooth and nail because he's you know, got bills and and maybe on the way bills to pay, you know, so the aspect of it, But I think from a coaching standpoint, you want to because traditionally coaches have been that they have this time as evaluators, as the best evaluators in sports, to try

and implement the scheme and see where guys are. So, you know, look, I think even for coach Mike McCarthy and his new staff, especially on the defensive side of the ball, they want these guys to participate. But then again, like I said, man, there's there is an aspect of this with players that they are concerned, and you saw the NBA, NFL you know, get through a whole sceneson with you know, some cancelations of games and things like that.

But still, all in all, Man, I think that the concerns are real and the guys have a legitimate right about this. All right, Isaiah, I want to hear your opinion all right now. I think you guys have done a great job of kind of creating a synopsis of with the issues that are at hand. From a coaching standpoint, we obviously know that coach Quinn and the rest of his crew want these guys on site. They need these

guys on site. Um, and you know, last year, not only did we have a virtual off season, but we also had a virtual off season where guys were quote unquote not supposed to gather together to even watch film together, and not supposed to do walkthroughs together. So that compounded the problem last year in addition to having a new defensive coordinator. So it's looking as if this is gonna

be a virtual off season across the board. I think there's nineteen teams already that I've already put out statements saying that they're not going to be there. So it's you know, now you start getting into a situation where you know, you do have a union, right and your union, the majority of the of the participants in your union are saying, hey, we're doing this in the form of solidarity. Don't show up, and you know, if you kind of go against the grained and you're kind of the outcast

from the player standpoint, I get it. I mean I get it. I know fans don't want to hear that, but I do get it. I mean, it's it's you know, agin imagine you're you're a guy like me from Seattle, and all of a sudden, you know you have to go live in Texas or wherever your team is playing.

Imagine you have to go live in in you know, New York, right for the for for four months, three four months, you know, just working every single day when you really don't have to, when you have an option to not have to do that and still have the opportunity to go out and do what you're paid to do, which is go perform on the field. Um. I know a lot of people are gonna say, what's your job? And you're absolutely correct, but there's a clause in there

that says that you don't have to be there. It's voluntary, right, And as long as that clause is in there, and it left the window open, right And I tell people all the time, we say it on the show, if you leave the window cracked, debos coming in. Right. So you know these guys, you know the windows cracked, and these guys have the option, um to exercise their right to not show up. And that's that's not to say that they're not preparing, they're not doing the things they

need to do. If that, if there is another virtual platform for us again this off season for the Cowboys. This year is different because guys will get together, Guys will have walked throughs, the leaders will hold meetings, they will watch film together. They would do a lot more things together because they won't be forced to be an

isolation like they were last year. One thing to point out, that's admit a great point, Isaiah about where you live, because I think one reason the tenants here has been so good is most guys stick around. Most guys either live here, they don't go. I don't live somewhere else out of state. So it Cowboys have an advantage. Dallas a great place to live. But it's hard for me to speak on it because I didn't play. I didn't play the game. I didn't play at the level I don't.

I don't know from the physical aspect of it, Hey, I don't need to do this put that extra sprain in my body. I can do it at home. And it's worth noting that this phase one through May fourteenth is virtual meetings. Essentially, you come in, you can work out, but it's it's virtual. It's Phase two that I'm really focused on, where you get into late May, and it's OTAs and then you mentioned the Mini camp man that the Eagles have come out, the Giants have come out,

said they're not going to do it. I don't know if that extends OTAs in mini camp, but the Cowboys to me immediately, if if things hold and they continue to work out here and do OTAs and stuff, they're add an advantage over their division rivals to me because they are working out together, specially defensively. Heck, you hit

on it trying to institute a new defense. I don't want Layton vander esh having to hit the raise the hand icon on the zoom, you know, to to ask a question like, let's just do this stuff in person and and try to get better. You know, I think that could have It could have been a big difference if they were around for OTAs last year. That's just my opinion, and I think it could help that they

do it this year. And Robert, I know, I know there's gonna be a lot of fans they're kind of up in arms about this, But think about it, you know, I imagine if it was the four of us, right, we're all we're all old and busted now, right, So if we say we had an opportunity to make, you know, make the last spot on the roster. And and we're not really getting those checks, so you're getting those I know what I was playing. I think it was five hundred dollars a week for your for your off season,

offseason training. So from your your entire offseason all the way up until the point where you hit camp, it was five hundred dollars a week. Well take it. Take a city like DC, Take a city like New York, you know, take Dallas. I don't care. You're you're bringing home two thousand dollars for the month. Cool, two thousand dollars for the month, regardless of how much money your

contract says that you're supposed to make. Right and then you're having to pay to get your car shipped right to and from you're having to find apartment or a house to rent right to cover the expenses that there's not enough money coming in and guys are losing money. So if you don't really have a pocket full of money, think about the guys that are trying to make the squad. They don't have the bread to be to be trying

to you know, show up. And yes, it's an opportunity, but the reality is it costs money to go work off site, and when you're getting there, when you're getting those weekly game checks, it's different, right, But when you're not getting those weekly game checks, Yeah, yeah, but your pockets, hey, your pockets is a little light. Hey man, listen, man, I'm gonna start and let's just take the COVID aspect

out of it. When when we're when you're making that point, because look, the world's smallest violin is starting to play, and so is me. Is gonna play on the jukebox for you if you're talking about that, Because there are a bunch of twenty three and twenty four year old guys that need that five hundred dollars a week that will do anything to get that money because they're living off of their body in the production that they want to put out and get that one of very very

few percentage that get to play this game. And so look, I think when that's what I believe happens with the fan base and professional athletes, where there's this disconnect between the exorbitant amounts of wealth fare through one whatever that is of guys that make in the league and the guys that are fighting tooth and nail just to get on the roster. And some guy that's sitting in his cubicle with cowboy memorabili all over it, and he's like, what do you mean you won't go and work out

for half a million dollars or whatever it is. I mean this there is no connecting it. There's that disconnected. There's no way to connect that back because us I think as a casual fan, it's hard to even fathom, you know, fathom what you're giving up for this. And look, I think that at the at the end of the day, what's going to come out is that this is all about money. Right, we realize all these things is happening, with the betting and the new TV rights deal, all

of this. The players are going, like you said, you leave that devo, You leave that when the open devo gonna come through, come through the playoffs. The players are finding every little, nuanced everything that they can do to force the ownership to come back to the table to negotiate about these things because in a pandemic year, they

had so many things affecting them. That's that's just my point on well and and look, they both sides agree to an eighteenth game but that's that's more physical strain on players bodies over the course of the year. So and there's veteran players like Trader who's running you know, the player's side of things. He's there rappings like do we do we need this at all? You know, we were able to get through a season without it last year.

Do we need it this year? My question, though, the extends beyond just the offseason workouts on the player's side. What about guys rehabbing though? You know that's a good point. I mean, Dak Prescott needs to be here to rehab. I mean he doesn't. It benefits him obviously to be here with the Cowboys staff. That's that to continue, you know, the progress he's made, all the guys that are coming back off injury. Are you asking guys not to do that?

That's my question too, And maybe not, maybe not because because guys have been rehabbing since the offseason began from injuries. But how far does it extends? My question? Yo, Let me ask you this. J. C. Trader, he the union president, he's you know, he makes a valid point, right, But I think that when you as far as the man, the overall product of football sucked last year, and I

don't care what anybody says. And it's from high school all the way up to the NFL, and you saw it and and it was because of guys having these virtual old tis, not having tool of Days abbreviated to a day. You saw the product on the field goal down and maybe offensively the numbers were up, and that was put the defense at a disadvantage. But still we there are guys, there are teams, especially the Dallas Cowboys,

need this ota. They need two of days because without it, you're gonna get the same results that you had last year. Guys not having to the concept of the scheme of defense, not being able to communicate because they had nothing to draw from. And if you're depending on your rookie guy that you're gonna bring in to you know, upload video to his coach to say, hey, you know, this is what I'm doing. These are my workouts, and you know,

my grandmother's at my grandmother's house. You know. I think that that relates to Sunday Dog when the lights are owned, and we gotta pay attention to that. I don't know, man, well, I think you probably accord with a lot of our viewership and a lot of our listenerhood and when you said, there's that disconnect between the players, the coaches, the owners, and the fans, and there's no ways to get it back in there because a lot of people who are listening right now are those people that are in the

cubicle with the Cowboys memorabilia all over their cubicle. And I'm I'm right there with you. I do the same exact thing. I'm my cubicle up there has Cowboy Cowboys memorabilia. I grew up a fan. So there is that disconnect. But like like Rob was saying earlier, there's a disconnect between even the veterans and even some of these younger guys who are trying to fight for that playing position,

that roster spot. But there's also a little bit of a caveat for those who have already had those roster spots. And per Todd Archer, he had a really good article on ESPN dot com said there's contract de escalators and the Cowboys contracts that could cost key players up to half a million dollars off their base salary should they not show up to at least eighty four percent of

the voluntary workouts. And those players include Dak Prescott, Ezekiel Elliott, DeMarcus Lower and Samari Cooper, Jalen Smith, Zach Martin, Tyrant Smith, Byle Collins aka the core. I mean, that is the core of your franchise in a nutshell. If you wanted to throw those names out there, maybe we'll take away a number I'm fifty four or something out of that group in terms of the core players that are there, but come contracts wise, yeah, that's a lot that you're

gonna have to give up if you're not here. And you talk about how it benefits certain players, but there are players on that list that may not be comfortable coming in for these voluntary workouts. So, Isaiah, I ask you the question, as a former player, does that money change things or as you are, you still able to kind of take a stand there if you believe. So, come on, Isaiah, so let me let me let me

send the president by by saying this. I've never been against off season workouts, So I like the work I like the off season. I like being around of guys. I like being near the coaches and being able to be in their ear, you know, prior to the season, so that it doesn't bother me um. However, five hundred stacks of us built into everybody's contracts. I wasn't. I wasn't making the money that these guys are losing. But then it could possibly lose. But it was in everybody's contract.

If you didn't show it for a certain percentage of the off season program, you did, you took you took an l right, you took a loss. So that's why I made sure my boat was there. But five hundred thousand dollars, that's that's It depends on the individual. I personally, I'm not leaving that on the table. But at the same time, you know you you're you are a part of a union, right, you are a part of a union,

and you are representing more than just yourself. I can take it back to Actually, this is directly correlated to my rookie year. And I'm not gonna say the player, but one of the one we were we were quote

unquote holding out our entire draft class. Uh, Nick Folk, Anthony Spencer, everybody, right, all of us were in there and one one of one of our one of our draft picks, with his agent, was having negotiations with the team and there was one little caveat they were trying to put in all of our contracts and it was related directly to this, and it was you had to be a part of like ninety percent of the offseason workouts if you wanted to receive or there was this this,

this penalty, and all of all of our agents were like, nah, like, we're not signing this. Our entire draft class. We're not doing it. We're holding tight together forget that. And you know, some people felt some type of way, but it was like, hey, we're doing this together as a unit. And the one guy, the one guy's agents signed a dog on contract is screwed everybody. At that point, we all had got to look up. This class wasn't trainer. But but now that you bring us up, I'll remember this. I we were

down there in San Antonio. I definitely remember that, and we work on a practice. We were like, our contracts haven't been signed yet, so we can't practice yet. And all of a sudden, the word came through some and Soul's agents signed a dog on deal. We're like, oh, come on, man, seven right in reality, seven, yeah, it didn't. It didn't affect us too much. But the reality is, this is the same situation. These guys are in. You got guys who really don't care and they either way

it works for me. And then you got the guys who are like, no, hold tight and let's stand firm as a unit. Do you think there's benefit Isaiah too? I mean, you talked about being a pro and you can get your work done wherever. Is there a benefit to having the guys in the team setting pushing each other or is that just raw rod? True? Absolutely, I mean, but from the player's staff, Like, like I mentioned, right, you you leave your family, your family man, right, so

you're leaving your family literally. You know there's there's there's big, big times in a year obviously from August until hopefully February, where you're just not around a lot. So you're missing out on all your kids games, you're missing out on all the night times, You're missing out on all the all the pteam meetings. You're missing out on a whole lot of things. And yes, I get it, your professional athlete, you you commit to this, you sacrifice a certain a

certain part of your life. But the reality is these guys are still humans, so you miss all of that. So now again that windows cracked open and you're like, hey, I don't have to go leave my home and go move somewhere else where my family is not I don't have to miss out on these things with my family.

I'm all I'm gonna do is wake up. My day was done by ten o'clock in off season, you know, and during this part of the offseason, you get in there at seven o'clock in the morning, whatever it is, you work out, and then you're done for the rest of the day. What the heck do you do with

yourself for the rest of the day. So these guys, as they're looking at it, they're like, why would I leave everything that I have going on, whether it's a side business, whether it's my wife, my kids, activities, you know, or you know, nonprofit organizations, just to simply go lift some weights when I can do that at the crib. Right now, when we start talking about the second phase, now, hey, let's let's possibly look at getting on site for that because we need to get some snaps. But you're not

getting no snaps right now. You're upload there. The guys are gonna be watching film. If you do that at the crib, we're gonna be working out. Do that at the crib, right, so it really it's not necessary to be on site. So I think that's where most of these guys are coming from. It's not so much the whole offseason, but at least this first part is kind of like, we're gonna be doing the same thing I've been doing for the last month. Gotcha. It needs to be the name of this podcast this off season at

the Crib. That's what it needs to be. I think I will say, like, there's a lot that goes into this. It's not just basically moving in and or not moving in, but coming in and doing a workout, Like, there are so many different aspects and changing factors to this all. And I don't think we're even closed to being done with it. I think the PA is going to continue to have their last words and we're gonna keep moving into the off season without really the off season completely

being happy. Nobody's gonna be one hundred percent happy. But when we come back, everybody listening will be one hundred percent happy because we have mail bag Monday. Is it scary to take a quarterer and back corner cornerback really high in the draft? Maybe at pick number ten. We're gonna ask that question and talk about it a little bit when we come back on the other out of the break. This is Talking Cowboys, presented by Geico Honey, Big News. Gary. Are you okay? Oh? I'm not Gary anymore.

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presented by Guy Cooke. Glad you're with us, Rob Phillips, Heck Harrison, the Great Isaiah stand back, I'm Kyle Yomans. And whether you're watching from home or cheering in the stands, well, that's the Lord lenses. You can see every exciting play book an appointment at your local experts and see what selor can do for you? See more, do more, Isaiah, finally love it, love it. Finally got your lenses Isaiah, are is it just like a new day? Do you feel like a new man with with your eel lenses?

Do you know what? I feel like? I could see things with a clear eye view, Kyle. Oh God, that's a different brand. It's complicate. You tell you what this brand? Lord say that. I would say that I've got my asselurs on too, and I love them. I'll tell you, I didn't even notice that this was really a thing until I read into it. But they have like the UV protection, the blue light, and they also have like the glare resistance. Yeah, the glare like these bl right

lights in here and then in the TV studio. It's unreal. Oh it's awesome, it's perfect, Like in their prescriptions, I can tell you fantastic. Yeah. Kay. I'll tell you one thing. When I went, I like these frames right just keeping my frames out, and I said, you know these, these these are fire right here. I said, like these, nobody really has these, you know, these these these super trooper glasses right. So they said, oh, you know, we don't

have the polar riz. We don't have the polarized lenses for those for those for those frames, I said, dog, go on it. You know, I really like these things. They said, But guess what, we're lure and we can do anything. So we're just gonna make some lenses to fit your frames. I said, you know what, that's customer service. That is fire. Keep them on, cal ram Rod, keep them on many see ram Rod. Oh, can't wait till uh till Rob gets his pair. You gotta get you,

you know, I'm I'm behind. I can't wait. Though. Man, they're awesome. I like, I wouldn't say, like sit here and talk about it as much like, but I love these glasses and I think they're fantastic. So shout out to the people that asked about them. Up behind, man that jumped the gun and got it off quick. And we needed to see we needed to analyze, yeah, exactly, we needed to analyze what you had and we had to level up. That's why all it was, we need

to see our competition. Okay, okay, we'll watch this. This is what a good host does. He plays off of even the dumb things that Isaiah says and turns it into a segue. So taking taking what you just said about leveling up. Well, the Cowboys, at least in the past, thought they had leveled up at the cornerback spot when taking somebody in the top ten ak A Morris Claiborne, which led our good buddy JT. Chandler to send in

a mail back Monday question. And for Dallas Cowboys dot Com you can go see David Hellman Johnny's responses to that specific question on the article itself on Dallas Cowboys dot Com, but we're gonna answer it here. And his question was the last time we used a high pick on a quarterback cornerback? I keep messing that up today if it doesn't work out very well or it doesn't work out very well. I personally think corner is the position that is easiest to miss on in the draft.

So as Patrick's Rutan a sure thing, Rob, I'll let you start on this one, because I mean, there's no such thing as a sure thing in the draft. But Patrick Rutan is about as guy. He's got about as high of a floor as anybody that I've seen in the class. I agree, I mean, I don't I don't know if he's going to be a Pro Bowl player. But he reminds me of a I don't know a Terrence Newman, you know, coming out No. Three that you feel like he's gonna play a long time. His dad

played the position in the NFL. He got as good at coaching as you can possibly get at the college level. Treyvon Diggs played in that program and looks like he's gonna be a really good one. So I if that's the pick, then I would feel really good about it. But I don't know if who's the name of the fan that j J J T Money, Like you know, cornerback, I guess you definitely can miss on that position. I mean,

you look at the Cowboys you mentioned Mo claiborne. Uh, they drafted guys that haven't gotten second contracts now Byron Jones just came down to money. Um, but you know Cheeto didn't turn out to be a Pro Bowl player, got a second contract somewhere else. They haven't. You know, that seventeen class didn't work out the way they wanted to. But they also haven't spent really high picks at that position in a long time, not since Mo claiborne I

mentioned Newman that worked out. Uh, the higher you pick, the better the odds, So I think that's part of it too. Heckma, you know, I love the question from j T, but I just don't feel that he's taking a one size fits all approach to this, you know. And and Mo Clayborn in his defense, man, he was just they played him out of position, man, I mean not out of position, but out of the scheme that he was more of a press man guy that they tried to convert into a zone corner. It didn't mix

well with what his skill set was. Now when you flipped that and we're talking about Patrick certain one of the things that I love about him is that he can play in multiple styles of defense. And when you just look man going looking at Dan Quinn and what he does in his philosophy, just going back to days in Seattle, I think people are getting this cover three thing and thinking that it's just gonna be zone it's not.

I mean, he played a lot of man on the outside with Richard Sherman and so Trey von Diggs certain they would be ideal in the system for Quinn. So I just don't feel I mean, it'd be the same thing as saying we're not gonna take Quitty Pay out of Michigan because of Taco. You know, it's like a man and I understand that. You know, you want to put everybody into the same shoe, but that's not the one Cinderella is going to wear it. I think Pay is a better player than Taco. Moe also had terrible

injury luck. I mean terrible injury luck. If anything. That's what robbed him of a good career well and even saying that he was still in the like in the NFL for a good amount of time. I mean, it's not like he was a one and done or just a complete bust. Sure he didn't live up to his draft stock or what he was taken at, but at the same time, there was a lot of factors that

went into that. And if you want to throw in other first round picks in terms of the corner position, I mean Byron Jones, it wasn't an early first round pick, but he was a first round pick, and he worked out after kind of what the Heckman just said, not utilizing his skill set early on, then you finally put him back at corner and what did he do? He excelled and now he's one of the better corners in

the league. So, Isaiah, I know you, I know where you stand in terms of the linebackers, and you want to go get Michael Parsons and the YadA, YadA YadA. But what would you feel about if Patrick's retan was the pick. Do you feel happy about that, you feel like you're a better football team, or do you feel like this is another Mo Clayborne situation where it's a quote unquote can't miss guy that you might end up missing on. Yeah, I mean not even going directly against

a pet, you know. Certain. I just I don't think that it's hard to play corner in the NFL. It's just called it. Called it. Call a spade a spade is very especially these guys, especially right now. These receivers are quick, they're fast. They're the schemes against the defenses that there that are being ran are made to break them down and give these guys ability to you know, get some yak yardage. Some yards have to catch. It's tough. So that's why nothing against any of these corners that

are coming out. I know that we have a handful of guys that are really they're exceptional athletes, exceptional players, but they're gonna it's gonna take time. It's gonna take time, you know. So if you go out there and you grab yourself one of those high high corners in a draft, you can't expect much from them in the first year.

You just the reality is you cannot bear let them bear that weight, U And now you you put that on the main year two, three and four, right, but in year one they how much can you truly expect in terms of impact from a corner in this league coming out coming out the draft? And that's why that's why I lean towards the other positions in terms of having impact right now, because the Cowboys need impact right now. Um,

that's not forfeiting your future. That's just saying what is going to have the most most effect over our success today. But I think if they go out there and they get a corner, yes, they could become better. To answer your question, call you become a better team, absolutely, But do you become a team that can just go out there and just have two revous islands not even close? Not even close? And that takes experience, and when you're facing guys like we're gonna be facing this year Kansas

City and teams of that nature strap up. Whoever's out there is going to have to have their have to

bring their lunch pail. The idea of having a rookie corner in the starting lineup with a second year corner that, yeah, it doesn't make you feel great, but but I mean the reason why it's such a hard position to find great players is another reason why you got to keep keep chopping at it, because it is such an important position to me anyway in terms of the way the league has gone, and you can I'm with you, Isaiah in terms of I would go pass rush first in

terms of chicken or egg, what's more important. But you've got to have guys on the outside that can hold their own. And I just look at the depth trip and bring it back Jordan lewis big. I think I've always liked Jordan's game, but I think they need to continue to find playmakers there and I think you still can find that at the cornerback position. I do think it's a hard position to evaluate, like you've mentioned, Kyle, the way the game is now, but it's not the hardest.

Quarterback is the hardest position to evaluate and the one where you can really miss the most, especially if you're drafting high, yeah, JT saying that it was the easiest position to miss on. I don't necessarily agree with that, because I think you can miss on a slew of positions in corner is one of those. But does this Mo claiborne pick still kind of haunt this franchise? I mean, like we talked about it, they haven't really spent a high, high draft pick on a corner since what was that

I mean twelve? Yeah, so Patrick Artan was what twelve years old? Whenever that was probably that pick was made. So and he's about to be the pick at ten, So heck, mu, do you still see that kind of haunting this front office? Or is that something you have to put in the review mirror? Yeah, that's definitely in the review mirror. I mean you talk about his career and where he would be right now had he stayed

with the Cowboys. So look, I really just think that when you talk about the twenty twenty one draft, before the whole Patrick Patrick Surtaan, Kyle Pitt's arguments started to come up, you heard everyone talking about Christian Barmore and

needing that that guy to anchor this defensive line. We saw what happened with you know, we were the forty burghers and playing from behind and not being able to be effective with our pass rush or stop to run, and consequently that's why our secondaries suffered the way that they did because of the time that the quarterback had.

That's why, you know, and I think all of those things when we start breaking this down and place importance on getting Patrick Soartan, I don't think that he's going to be the end all be all because of all the other draft picks that you have to be strategic about, and so look, I don't I'm gonna be happy if we get Patrick Soutan because I know what his skill said is gonna be. But I also am not gonna be happy if we don't do anything to shore up

the interior of this defense. I love it. I think that might be my favorite scenario is if they traded down a few picks and got bart I love that scenario. He scares me a little bit just based off of the motor. I mean, he's got a motor and he's a baller, but it's a motor that only runs like two or three plays before you have to take him out. And then you got to put them back in. He's not a three down lineman. And that's what scares me

a little bit with that. Now that can fit, you know, I mean with Tristan Hill, with Neville Gallimore, and you'd rotate Christian Barmore in there. It could fit. It could be just fine. But that's not what you want out of your first round. No, that's not what I want ont of my first round. So I think there's just better secondary players that you could potentially go get if he falls to you in the second at forty four. Sure I would be ecstatic about that. Yes, you leave

it on Zerikie. He could be a three down interior defensive lineman. He could be your three technique and be a BA pretty quick. I don't know if I could say that on air the internet. He could be a badass on air or on the field. But I just think I think there's better choices if for that rule specifically, I think there's a better option there. But Isaiah, I'm gonna ask you this question because I specifically know what you're going to answer, and I know what Robs Rebuttal

is going to be. Because I feel like this is an argument that we've needed to have on this show for quite some time. Is there really is any other option other than corner at pick number ten, knowing where the needs lie, knowing where the the board falls. Is there any other option whatever it comes to a player there on the defensive side of the football outside of Patrick's or Tanner jac Horn. Yeah, I mean, you know where I'm going with him. I'm going right there with

with Parsons. Yeah, and that's that's my pick. I mean, yeah, I know all the people out there talking about Kyle Pitts. Pitts is going to San Francisco. Let's go ahead and say that right now. That the bed. He'll be in San franc He'll be in San franc All right, he'll be in San franc What are you willing the bed? Yeah? Take him out the table and then uh and then so yeah, so Parsons, you know what I mean? Blue right past that Again, it's all about It's all about

the front seven. I don't care how great your secondary is. You just heard Hecklist allude to it. If you can't get home, it doesn't matter how many dog are vases you have or want to be revises you have out there, They're gonna get thrown on all day long because you're gonna only stick a guy for so long. Right, the average average length of a play is what four three and a half four seconds something like that. So so if that's so, you go past that and you can't

get home, those guys are getting open. So it doesn't matter how good your quote unquote your corners are. That's why you have to focus on your front seven because all of a sudden, what happened in Seattle, which is what we're trying to do plicate, right, and we're trying to do plicate what Quinn did years ago, is the front the front seven was McNasty as I call it. Okay,

the front seven was McNasty. And because they were McNasty, the guys in the secondary, those four dogs were out there able to eat because they were able to play more aggressive. Not to say that they didn't have talent. We all know that all those guys out there had talent, but you don't have to be as good when your front seven is amazing and they can get and they apply pressure. In addition to the schemes that an amazing defensive coordinator can provide, it will put you in position

to make plays. You don't have to have the excellent corners. You can have good corners and have an excellent front seven, and now you present a problem to every single team that decides to step in front of you. I'm watching these highlights of Michael Parsons on Life. It's Mike Singletary. Man, this guy, this guy goes sideline to sideline. What I would say, though, is he's a linebacker. He's not an

edge rusher. They use him in blitz situations. He's played on the line of scrimmage you little bit at Penn State. If he were an edge rusher, an elite edge rush straight off the edge, then I would be all about it. I think at ten, I just there's not there. Just doesn't. Like we talked about bar More, defensive tackle, defensive end, there doesn't seem to be that big time top ten

prospect there this year. For that reason, I'm thinking position wise, I would be more inclined to take the cornerback because it is a Markie position. It costs a lot of money if you if you hit on a Pro Bowl player in the top ten, he's under contract for five years. Yep. That's big for me. And I still think, you know, while front seven. I'm with you there, Isaiah. I still think you got to show up your second. The thing is, you can talk me into any position on defense. You

literally can talk me to any position on defense. But if it's if it makes an instant impact or if it's gonna make you better, and it just seems like corner, the value seems to be at that position at time, it does. Right, I hear you, I hear you, right, go ahead, go ahead. I mean Robin said, But the thing with rob is saying that it's not gonna be a hard to sell, a hard sell on for him to get him. Just don't get me pis. Just don't get me piss and I'll be happy. Give me pits

and I'll be just frying and love. I love it. I'm sick. Go ahead, look, man, I am sick of seeing last year man watching quarterbacks file their fingernails and look for their open receivers. At the same time, I don't think not something I'm interested in saying. I think that the whole execution of the defense was off. And you know that's just stunting everything that we did. We just could not get home, and we can't allow that

to be our reality in twenty twenty one. You look around the league and if this is a copycat league, look at the Super Bowl champions and who they had a linebacker and what they can do. I think that a guy like Michael Parsons, if you just just keep it real with yourself and look at the highlights that you were just looking at, you see a playmaker. I

mean all the other things that people are saying about him. Okay, fine, I'm talking about a guy in this game in the four three what he can do for the Cowboys if you give him, you know, the Kama Kaze mission of getting home. He shows you that he could do that. He did it in college, he'll do it in the pros. So heck, did you just say a guy in the four to three who just happens to run of forty three? Is that? Is that? What I see? How that was? You said that? You said I did that? Right there?

Listen here, Rock, Yes, I don't disagree you need a secondary, but be real with yourself. Right since we're talking about keep it in one hunting right on this Monday, we don't have to keep it real Fridays right now, we gotta keep it real mondays. If you say it with your chests, say with your chest. If you're in Kansas City, you're coming in here. If you're a Green Bay, you're coming here. I don't care who it is. Are you afraid of digs in certain if I'm I'm not afraid

of anything much. No, No, not afraid of it. I don't care what team you're, what team walks in here, or what team you go with. Play. You're not afraid of those two's guys, No disrespect, good good players. You're not afraid of corners. There's very few corners in this league that have ever been that guy that you's like, I just can't throw that way. Very few, very few that we can name it an entire hissing Yeah, very very few guys that you just say, guess what, that

side of the field's walled off. I'm just not going over there, right. Everybody else They got to show me, right. But there's plenty of defenses that we can name in history. Or you're like, crap, I'm not fooling with these boys. Front seven. We gotta get the ball out, we gotta

get the ball out. Quit because guess what. Either the de line is gonna get home or guess what the d line is gonna consume the office of linement and the linebackers there they're running with their hair with their hair on fire, and they can shoot the gap or like you just said, they can run sideline the sideline. Oh and they're all six four oh and they got long arms. Come on, man, these dudes can cover the entire second level and office A line not be able

to work up to them. You can't account for linebackers. You can account for deep as alignment. If you have an amazing defensive end, I can chip on you all day long. I can said another tight end over there too, you I can, I can. I can neutralize you as a deep as alignment. If you're a cornerback, I can run hot routes. I can run screens over there, I can run squat slants. One step now is making I can neutral I can neutralize you linebackers. You can't neutralize linebackers.

So when you have three hungry young dogs out there that can run around, they have good size on them, six three six four two hundred forty two hundred forty five pounds and they can run all three of them. Okayess what you become dangerous. I completely agree with what you're saying. In the foundations of football, having a good front seven is better than having a bad front seven. I completely agree. But you also you brought up to

the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. You brought up how they built their team, right, Yeah, that front seven is just nasty. I mean they are just doggone impressive. Sure, how many of those guys did they select? And where did they select those guys? And where is the contract value kind of allocated throughout there? The highest paid corner on their team, by the way, right this second is their twenty first

highest played player on their team. You know why because they're starting three corners were all drafted in the last three years, and they were all drafted in the first or the second day. So I think overall, you're talking about premium picks that give you cheap contracts at a premium position like cornerback, that allow you to be free to make additions elsewhere where. You're able to go and go and get an edge rusher that's established, You're able

to go get a defensive tackle that's established. Sure, the Cowboys haven't proved to any of us that that's a possible thing, because they want to go find these bargains. That's the frustrating thing. But the way that things have kind of turned out for Tampa Bay, and if you're going to compare the Cowboys to Tampa Bay, look at where they're drafting these players and looked at where they're getting at. Sure, they've spent high end picks on edge

rushers in the past. Sure they've done that with guys like Devin White at the linebacker spot. That's a thing. Sure because he was a player that was in that spot that was highly touted enough coming out of college to where he was worth it. I don't think there's that player in that trap. That's why I think the cornerback spot and keeping things cheaper on the outside where your top two corners, which would be either Treyvon Diggs or whoever you draft this year, are gonna be cheap

for the next five years. That that's really clever the way you tried to do that, Kyle. But I was condidned that, Yeah, that's clever. I like that. But if you asked Bruce arians which would he have rather had the defensive line under contract versus those secondary guys. If he could have drafted Jason Pierre Paul and an In Dumbinkan Seul and guys like that. He would have rather drafted those guys and feel those resip He just had the luxury, right, right, He had the luxury to be

able to do that. I mean, look, this is a necessity for us. This is the necessity part. We have to find playmakers and impact players. We think that we have a few, or we have one, uh in Tank Lawrence, but outside of that, everybody else has a question mark. So look, you have to start build the building blocks the foundation of your team. It starts up front. Whether it be Neville Gallimore, whether it's Tristan Hill, whether it's

Antoine Woods, all of those things. We still need guys that are gonna make an impact on the front in front for us, the back half are linebackers. We realize there's a void there. If we can get better at the linebacker position, then great safety. There's a legitimate need

back there at safety because he doesn't solidify anything. Okay, So when you're talking about what's going on on the outside, all of that's cosmetic, Kyle, Okay, look kind of like this cosmetic, right did you look at the sea tape and say that's cosmetically because it was pretty bad. Hey Kyle, Kyle, I'm gonna tell you right now, if I'm a cornerback, if I'm a veteran cornerback, because that's where you're also going to feel in some of these voids after the draft.

Let's not be mistaken. You're gonna draft young corner. You are gonna grab a young corner in this draft. But there's also guys like Richard Sherman sitting back there chilling right now. It's just training, just training and waiting to see. Guess what how dominant is it front seven gonna be? To determine how much work I'm gonna have to put in. I'm just being I'm being real with you guys. You guys don't want to hear this. This is the real quarterbacks. You have to work harder if you don't have a

solid front seven. Question. That's just how football works. So absolutely so, there's premium. There's still premium veteran guys who are willing to come get the bread and go after a super Bowl. If the front seven looks good drafts, what I can go out here and I can mentor these guys. I can show these young bucks how to do this thing. And guess what I will rotate through And because of the front seven, I don't have to come out here and be what I used to be.

That's that's that's the reality, guys. I know of your argument, Hyle, everybody was all these guys out there, No, they don't have to be at the top of their game. These guys just have to simply just be good and be mentors and be vets. And guess what I'll I'll take it. I'll take a little tax break. I'll take a tax breaking him out here. It helped these young bucks along in a in a system that I'm familiar with. And guess what, if y'all take care of that up front,

I'll come in there. I'll come in. But if you got it, you don't take care of that up front. I'm not sticking these dudes that y'all about the face issue for six seven seconds. I'm not doing it. Okay, but we've stabbed, We've established they need a lot of help and a lot of spots. Yeah, So if they draft Michael Parsons at ten linebacker line but not a not a edge rusher, that's gonna played that right d

spot then Alton Smith played last year. Don't need it, okay, but if you you get him in place, is the front seven so infinitely better that. Like you said on the back end, you just gotta you just gotta be okay. You just gotta be okay. I don't. I don't think so. I mean that's actually I'm not no, I'm not saying you're done. Don't let me don't know. I'm gonna make sure that I'm clear on this. We're not done making your acquisitions. You are nowhere near done. However, I feel

really good about my friend about Dallas's front seven. If you put Parsons in there, I feel really good about it. With some of the other pick that they've already acquired early in the offseason, I feel good. Do I feel like amazing about it? Not yet, not until i'll see these guys all work together. But guess what I'm feeling, dog because I know at least I got some dogs that are hungry. They're gonna run around and they're gonna

get after the quarterback. And guess what, you picked up the big the big dog on Gargantuan in the middle. You're not gonna run the ball up the middle right, you got a couple of guys who got Tristan Heal, we got Gallimore. We got some young guns, some dogs that are up front. We know they can play, we know they have a drive, we know they have a motor, right, and these guys are gonna continue to get better, and they're gonna get coached up by one of the best

defensive coaches. So we is going to get better. But secondary is easier to feel with veterans for the discount double check than it is defensive lineman. That's the real I agree to a certain extent. But also, whenever we're talking about the draft, you have to draft where the

draft allows you to draft. I mean, that's just plain and simple, where the value is, and the value in this draft with edge rusher's defensive lineman, you can talk about linebackers, front seven, whatever, all the front seven you can get in the Day two part of the draft, which, by the way, you have three picks, you could pick two guys if you wanted to to get that dude. I don't think Michael Parsons is that guy. I don't

think he's that guy. That's that you say, all right, let's let's forget about getting a guy day two, and let's go find a guy day one and just solidify that spot. No, cornerback is that position. That's where the value lies early in the draft. I mean you can talk about offensive tackle there, you can talk about cornerback and talk about wide receiver pass catcher. Of course, that's not a need. Corner is a need. It is a

glaring need right now for this team. And whenever you haven't pick at ten, you can make that selection and then go and get an edge rusher later on in rounds two or three that can be a starter for you. You're talking about him already, Tristan Hill, Neville Gallimore. You're you're relying a lot on those guys already. They were Day two picks. They weren't top ten picks. I think there's I think there's two different game plans, right, There's

two different approaches. I think the approach to heck on myself are taking. I think we can go ahead split this up now on myself are taking an approach or what guys are going to have the most impact on our team right in our team, not which guys are necessarily the best in this draft. There's two different ways that you approach this. You can pick the best player available, right they're always guys always do that all the time. But does that feel the void that your team needs

to be most dominant right now? Yeah? I can you argue that Patrick Certant is a better player than Parsons. You can make that argument. But but it does putting him on your team right now make you more dominant or does it just give you better outlook in terms of the future. You put Parsons on your team and all of a sudden, your fresh seven unit is more dominant. And that's what I'm writing about. You have to change your mindset to say, oh, well, this player is gonna

he's great in college, he's gonna be great in the league. Yeah, down a road, down a role. But is he gonna have that impact right now? Is he gonna go out line up and stop freaking freaking heal and and and and everybody else is going to give you a better chance than than Reggie Robinson, and Rio Jones is going to rout You's going to round Chard Robinson. I mean, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, Kyle, You know this. It does because Peter c Anda stopping Mike Emson. These guys,

they're not. Nobody else has stopping, so'll just be real to say, Okay, this is a sect of fact. Their receivers are going to win. Let's get home before they get old. When it comes right down to it, just give me defense, Give me defense. I'll high five you, Isaiah through the screen man. Just just give me defense. I don't agree with you, Isaiah, and I'm sure that's not going to change. But I do agree in the fact that we are going to be a better team

after pick number ten. Hopefully, I mean, I just that better be. I don't know. If not. We're gonna have a lot of a lot of extra arguments on this show. Okay, we're gonna have to take our second break when we come back. What are the biggest shoes to fill on that defensive side. I feel like we've already hit a lot of that in our argument, but we'll talk about it a little more when we come back. Here. I'm talking Cowboys, my I'm Clint Tillison with you, nan at

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guys do on field at every home game. Stetson Hats the official crown of all self respecting Cowboys and your favorite football team. Get yours today at Shop dot Dallas Cowboys dot com or at Stetson dot com to talk in Cowboys. I'm exhausted after that last segment. I'm just I need another coffee. But you know what I'm not exhausted of is hearing with my bows quiet comfort earbuds.

Because whether you're listening to us on Talking Cowboys or music while you work out with both Quiet Comfort earbuds, you can experience audio at a whole new level. Bose Quiet Comfort Earbuds the official earbuds of the Dallas Cowboys. Man Isaiah got hooked up with Bows headphones and oh he got him. He does. Yeah, looked their phone. He got it. He got He got hooked up with Bows headphones and Selor lenses in like the span of one week. Heck, what's it like, though, Rob, It's like a symphony in

my head. Yeah, yeah, that's symphony. He just popped back up with glasses. Oh my gosh. It's all about that product placement, baby, all of it. Put it Dad on the I look like my dad. If I wear them like this, I don't like this. I don't. I don't. That's that's the uncle. I'm trying to say. That's that's that's that's the barbecue. Uncle. Give me the game. Yeah, but hay me that hand me that paper plate. Put a little next. Oh goodness, all right, this is good.

Yeah it is uh final three minutes. So I'm gonna ask you rapid fire questions. Look at the roster right now, whatever the moves have been made in the past. Is there a position or multiple positions that stand out as having the most need entering this draft. I'm not even talking about premium picks. I'm just saying we need players here that can be young, good. Whatever you want to say, Rob, I'll let you start off. But is there a position that sticks out to you right now anywhere on the

defensive side of the football. Honestly, I've been I've been saying defensive tackle for months, and I still kind of I think Heck kind of alluded to it, Like I'm still you could still find a big time tackle that could disrupt things in the middle and stop the run along with your free agent editions. Like I'm I'm still on board with that. Um, I mean, we covered corn and linebacker, and I'm not in disagreement about linebacker depth

and talent. Like Isaiah said Alton Smith leaving you know, Randy Gregory can step in at edge rusher, but you could Abash Hims there, but you could use another edge rusher. I mean, honestly, like it sounds boring, but it's really give me a playmaker anywhere, and I'm happy about it. Isaiah, I'm going with I'm gonna go with we need a corner we need a corner. I think we want a linebacker. Um, I want to throw things. I'm so frustrated. Talk about positions.

We talk about positions, right we are, Yes, we are. We're talking about position. We need corner. How you okay, bra, He's not take it take it from there? All right? Well I'm gonna Hey, I'm gonna start with safety. We need we need a safety. Um, I don't think we didn't fix anything. We have a because he that we signed from Atlanta. It's like that an achilles rupture. So don't know how he's gonna heal for that, but we define. I want to see us go into the draft and

get one of these, uh safeties. But I'm gonna stay with the linebacker position. That needs to be depth at it. We need a playmaker. Uh. You know, Layton vander Esch is in the point where will the Cowboys pick up his fifth year option? There are a lot of question marks there, and I think drafting a stud linebacker pretty much puts a lot of things in perspectives and lights

of fire under a lot of guys. We've been talked about counting Neil though he doesn't make you feel better at that position, even if he's kind of moonlighting there at two hundred and fifteen pounds, he doesn't make you feel better there, and he's coming down, he's coming down, and he said it moonlighting. He said it. He's moonlighting. So that's not gonna be you know it in and out. I'm just trying to make this fages. I'm talking about

you guy, Okay, no, I thank you. Outside of owner, there are three positions that I think you need to pick up guys in and I think it's safety because the exact same reason that Heckma just alluded to is Keyan O'Neil and demonte Kazi could both be guys that are good, like they could both be high ceiling signings. But it's not likely. I mean, you have a zero idea what they're gonna be. Keona Neil could come in

and be an absolute stud. I mean, he's made a Pro Bowl before, he was on the upward trajectory as the season was ending last year. He could be really good. Who knows. He could also be terrible and not play a couple but a couple of snaps all year long. Who knows. So safety is one of them. The other one is ed Rusher and the other one is offensive tackle, even though you've signed Tynesseki to kind of be that

swing tackle position. I want a guy to groom for the future, not necessarily to start this year, but I want I want to get somebody who's going to be the next the heir to the throne of Tyrn Smith. And then of course Lyle Collins is pretty good on the right side, so I want to go get a left tackle. That's that's one of my positions that you need to go and get. But that's gonna do it for us here on Talking Cowboys. Hope you learned something,

Hope you enjoyed yourself over the last hour. We will be back next Monday, eleven thirty Central Time here from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Hopefully I'm gonna put a pressure, a little pressure on our bosses upstairs. Hopefully all four of us will be in studio next week, because it's the week of the draft and it would be the third show ever that we would ever be in person for.

So I'll chop to that. How about that for Rock Collops, for Rock Phillips, for the uncle at the barbecue I saw him stand back for Harrison for christ be I'm Kyleman. So long from talking Cowboys. We'll see you next week. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.