Talkin' Cowboys: Receiver Depth; Tay's Last Show

does through Wednesday at least. Mickey has about as many papers as he would in the regular season. Didn't feel like an off season to me. Not this week. Nope, no game season. No. I mean, but you know a lot of good content too with the stuff, with the access who are having with the players. Really excited about the things that we're doing with Taylor, the tape and I know some most Cowboys is doing some things. Mike Marshall working on some things for the television side with

Lindsey Draper. So yeah, it's good to have these players in that kind of setting that you kind of can ask them a little bit different questions. I'm really. I love the tale of the tape things that we're doing, the fact breaking down a play with the guys going back and kind of getting an idea what they were thinking. I thought working with Jeff Heath yesterday was a lot of fun just because of that play made in the Oakland game, you know, to save it, and kind of

what he was seeing and thinking and the goat play. Yeah, so that'll be on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. I mean, like Mickey said, not much for an offseason. We'll keep putting that stuff out for you that it hasn't been well. Today, on today's show, I want to get into what Zeke said last week, what Stephen Jones said about the Zach Martin situation, and then we got to hear it from Paul Alexander. Mickey told you guys a couple of weeks ago about his ketchup test and he got asked about

that a little bit further. And then we'll have some fun with Rob's Twitter poll of the backup quarterback, which I think will always be a lively, lively, fun debated forgive. Yeah, you still have time, you do it. Yes, Yes, I know how to do it. I'll show you at the break. What's the what's the poll? Can you can you? Can you give us a little yeah chromo of the poll? Yeah, I tagged you and it tagged in it. But hey, that's okay, quick, simple question. Who's going to be the

backup quarterback to DAC this year? Don't get into did you come up with four choices? I came up with three? Three? Oh, and that's all I'm going to tell you. So oh, I know, I know what the third one is. No, you don't, Yes, I do, no break? All right, Well, getting into it last week, of course, Eze Gillett during the first week, everyone was excited to see him getting back out. They're excited for a full slated sixteen game season.

Knock on wood as we sit here today, and he brought up something that I wanted to ask you guys about. Of course, everyone's talking about the Dak Friendly and we're not getting into that. That is not what this conversation is about. But yes, big deeper right there. But he did say, we got a couple of new wrinkles in but at the end of the day, we're going to be the Dallas Cowboys we've been the past couple of years and try to establish the running game with that

dominant offensive line and make big plays. Obviously keyword, dominant offensive line. Who is he you know, who can really help him return to that? You know, Nicky's been saying this all along that the problems, one of the problems you had last year was the offensive line, the health of the offensive line. You know, I'm I'm looking forward to seeing it. We've got a little taste of it

because of him starting as the left guard. I'm looking forward to seeing once they put on the pads what they really have in Connor Williams, the youth and how yeah, and how he can you know, is he the guy that is he the guy that can solidify that left that left guard spot? Excuse me? Now, Ken as a young guy, can he make you know, hard to say this, but can he make Tyrant Smith better? You know? Can

he make Travis Frederick better? He's got that kind of talent to where, you know, when you plug him in a way we go. But I'm looking forward to this. I'm looking forward to the pads, the offensive line. I'm looking forward to Ezekiellett putting a lot of things behind him with the off the field stuff and then just going out and finding ways to move this football. Well, I'm glad you brought up Connor Williams because, as you guys know, he played at Texas and his head coach

was Tom Herman for a year or so. But before that, Tom Herman was actually a Zekie Elliott's offensive coordinator. And if you guys followed Zeke Elliot's college career, which I'm sure most football fans did, you saw how close he was to the Ohio State lineman, calling them the slobs. They kind of had this, you know, mutual understanding of their love for each other, and you've seen Zeke do that before. So I wonder how that age just kind of having the same feel of what Tom Herman was

able to bring to them in college. Six degrees of separation. The guy can help himself by playing sixteen games, that's true. I mean, there was nothing wrong with the running game last year. Even though Jonathan Cooper was playing left guard. He almost rushed for a thousand yards in ten games. So to me, when he was on the field, it was dominant. The problem was he missed six games and then they missed Tyrn Smith. So um, I mean the Broncos game sticks out to me though, Well, that was

the second what second game of the season. Yeah, Broncos, no one played well that game. It wasn't just the running game, it was the entire team. It was one of those games. It happens. But the rest of the season, when he was on the field, he was still pretty good and they still ran the ball awfully. Well. The problem was the six games he missed. Yeah, I'll take it one step further though, because to Bryant's point, I

think Connor Williams I'm I'm bullish on him. I feel like he can get this thing back solidified, and not just the left guard position. It allows le Collins potentially to stay at right tackle, where I thought he had a solid season, got better as the season went along. And then you bring in a guy with Super Bowl experience,

Cameron Fleming, who can be your swing tackle. And then that's the domino effect where if Tyrn Smith does miss some time, here's a guy with a little more experience, a little better track record as a swing tackle candidate. Oh no, I agree with that, But you're hoping Cameron Fleming doesn't have to play? No, absolutely no, But I'm sit there on paper, I feel better about that situation than I did. Absolutely, but Williams helps that by being here, so dos Paul Alexander. He said to me, it's like

I've gone to heaven. It's the most beautiful football situation I've ever been in. No offence too since now Yeah, and he was he was there what O line coach for twenty three years, So I mean that's saying something. But hey, when you step into a job where you're coaching three Pro bowlers who have been All pros at some point, that's pretty good. Well, and like you guys are saying, there's a perfect blend of veterans and youth. Yeah, and he pointed out a potential fourth. He's big on

Laoe Collins. But by the way, yeah, yeah, yeah, So it's it's easy low Collins. I mean he's the one guy. Yeah. You're kind of watching him in these practices and stuff like that. He seems like that A like you said, Taylor very happy that he didn't have to move B is that he could build on what he was able to do last year. I haven't seen any real struggle with him. Sometimes you see some breakdowns other people, but

it's not with him. He seems to be right back to where he was at the end of the season. Could this wide receiver crew help help Ezekiel it better? Well, absolutely it needs to, because if they don't find a way to effectively throw the football or you know, or guys get open. And Mickey likes to talk about this, and he could be absolutely right. Could people just stack the box and say okay, and and they've run against some stack boxes before, but how consistently can they run

against stack boxes? If in fact that none of these receivers step up and give them anything on the outside to be a threat. That's that you know. I made a comment about the offensive line and the young guys and all that and looking forward to that, but also the receivers. I mean if if if they don't figure that out, that could be that could be very problematic

for this team moving the football. Not only not only trying to run it, but if it gets into situation whether they're in some those long yarded situations or mediu marriage situations, and you got guys that aren't getting open, then they're not moving. The sticks to TBD to be determined. Yeah, well, not just the rookies, it's just unknown. Look at what's out there right now. Yeah, you don't know. I mean, you don't even have Terrence Williams out there right right now,

is still rehabbing from the surgery. It's interesting, you know, Stephen Jones has admitted, Look, we don't have a quote unquote number one guy this year. It's not going to be a Julio Jones hunter catches. That's not Luya's offense is designed anyway. I do think you need somebody to step up and draw double teams and and and create some attention every snap down to down. But I think I'm looking at Alan Hearns because this is a guy that's had a thousand yards season in his career on

the outside as an ex receiver. But I think you gotta take it another step and say they just need two or three wide receivers to like Brian said, just be reliable, get open and take advantage of one on ones. And then all of a sudden, now you have an offense that defenses have to account for every guy. And I don't think that was really the case last year. There was, you know, they needed their receivers to do a better job getting open consistently. Who is the best

receiver on this team? But we did a top ten on that a couple of weeks ago. Didn't Did you vote on the top ten? I did? First? Yeah Beasley, Yeah, me too. I put Hearns because of his one great, really good season, Jacks Beasley's one great season. I put Beasley number two. Yeah. See, that's that's the thing. And now you're saying, Okay, is your slot receiver and I the good old air quotations for slot receiver, he's your best receiver. What does that tell you? That tell you something?

Should we? Should we be like? And nothing? It gets Cole Beasley because I love the guy. I think they kind of get him going when you're talking about his best season. And correct me if I'm wrong, Mick, but you're probably referring more to twenty and sixteen obviously, right, Well, you can't catches and sixteen. You look at that and you you still have the Dez Bryant, even though he's dealing with injuries. You you had a more veteran player that was on this team for a year quarterback. Yeah.

That's what I'm saying is that, you know, looking at him an not looking at his relationship with Dak it seemed like the obvious connection. It's it just appeared that in watching the games we all did, it just appeared that defensive coordinators were not going to let Cole Beasley beat them in these games. And that's my worry going into this season. Defense. There's a different there's a different element though. They got to worry about handing the ball

to Zeke now in the middle. Right, you can't devote that linebacker to back at him when he's in the slot. And we're not so sure he's always going to be in the slot, by the way. Yeah, we've been paying attention. We absolutely have been paying attention. Were they were taking him, You're right, but they were taking Beasley out or trying to before Zee got suspended too. They were somehow averaging

twenty eight points a game. Well I know that, but I'm talking about Beasley, whatever his numbers were, somebody was doing something right. Yeah. Yeah, And maybe Tavon Austin is another element there. A guy that you got to account for in space can be a mismatch guy. You know.

I heard an interview today this morning with Dion and I normally don't hardly ever agree with anything he says, and he was asked about No Dez, where they going with these wide receiver corps, and he goes, can we can we just call Dez and make up and say, oh, you know what, we changed our mind, he said. But that's not gonna happen, he said, So what they have now, this offensive coordinator needs to be more creative to get all these parts involved because he doesn't have one guy

to just lean on it. Do you think that's what Zeke met with the wrinkles. Oh, I'm absolutely sure. With adding Tavon Austin whatever he's gonna do. Alan hearns. You know Rob mentioned he had him number one. Well a lot of times he's in the slot. So they can move these guys around, play all three positions. Yeah, um Thompson, Yeah, he's got more speed than they've had it. Oh no, yeahceiver absolutely And as I keep saying, don't go to sleep on Gallop, Yeah, you know he may need three

or four. Don't go to sleep on him. So that they've got at this kind of group there, Uh that you know if but he was right, Dion was right. They're gonna have to be creative to how they mix all this together. See that's the thing that worries me now because you're saying Dion, who you're right, make you I'm with you on that. I have one foot in the parking lot on him a lot of the times. That's okay. He probably has both feeding the parking lot on me. That's all right, no problem with that, we're

even there. But I just kind of wonder, creativity wise, is can you be a creative coach and run the football? Or and hear me outand no, I mean if your team is about lining up in twelve personnel or maybe even some eleven personnel stuff. But can you be creative if your identity is running the football? I think so.

I think you can do it with formations. You can do it with packages that you're not just standard two tight ends, two wide receiver and a running back, because I don't know that they want well, I'm sure they're not going to throw the two tight end package out right, No, I don't think so. If if you had to pick two tight end ends, well, who's going to be on the field? What I got? Well, right now it's Swam

and Jarwin. Yeah, those are the two guys, all right, and not exactly you know God's gift to blocking, by the way, that's fair assessment. So you know, if you're gonna run with two tight ends, somebody's got to do the blocking. God's gift to blocks gift. But well, if

she'd Stanford is what she should. Joe and Flower Mound be worried about creativity, I think, well, what you've seen, Yeah, and that's that's fair and I and I mean because, but creativity could be that Scott Linahan is not being created because he's because Ezekiel It just told you, Hey, we're gonna get back to running the football. No, but

there's different ways to do it. Yeah, And there's different ways to create the lessen the confusion in the middle of the field by your second teeth, Micky does that wide receiver more wide receiver and the rounds um you added a guy who can be creative with and Austin. Yeah, that's a guy that's a chest like that one. Huh. Well, I think you can find a role for him. Now. He's got to be productive, all right, but you can do a lot of different things with him because he

hangs to the ball. We think that guy, do we think that head coach in Los Angeles is a pretty creative guy? Do you think that just because of the pieces he has or the pieces. Why do you specifically think I'm thinking that because I've watched I watched a quarterback just get thirty million dollars a year in Minnesota that never went to a playoff, never did anything, you know, But what did they do against the Cowboys? Offensively? Always

found a way to move the football. Yeah, they're always found a way that you say, does that say something about the player? I'm worried a little bit about I like what you're saying about Tavon Austin. I'm worried a little bit. Yeah, I'm worried that maybe Scott lind Han's attitude and it might not be his fault, it might be his attitude is No, he got creative in Minnesota, he got creative in Detroit. He's come here though, they draft to sequel Elliott for Tony Romo, but has to

get a quarterback ready. So what does he do? He plays play action, he plays waggle, he plays boot. We see the guy get the Rookie of the Year, and then you're thinking like, yeah, yeah, and I'm with Mickey, I think he I think he does have to get more creative, but maybe it's not his DNA With this current teams though that I think you've brought up on this show, particularly is Sanjay Law. You have brought up

the fact that you believe he's passing game Moses. Now, yeah, you think that he's a creative guy from what you've seen. Al And let's remember about Tavon Austin. He played most of the last year with a risk that needed surgery. Okay, look at his numbers the year before hurt his knee. He says in preseason. Oh no, I look at the numbers in the year before. I would sit there. I'm

with you. I'm just saying though that I have a I have a out of respect just watching the Redskins play the Cowboys all those times, and that guy thrown for damn near five hundred yards every time, and he seemed like he was throwing the Jamison Crowder and Pierre Grossan and Jordan Read and it always seemed like there was something going on. And then this kid, he sees McVeigh come in and maybe the fact that he was so banged up, but they just basically gave up on

him though. They gave up on him. No, no, they gave him away. Yeah, they just gave away. But but I'm just saying though they couldn't afford him after all the people they're out And I'm not trying to hammer Scott Nahan here, but I'm but his mindset might be I'm gonna run this football forty six percent. That's what Zeke saying is we got a line that hey, just okay, try and stop us. We're gonna line up and we're

gonna run you over for four quarters. That's that's Zeke's philosophy. Um. I go back to Alan Hernston in the passing game. I feel like because we watched the play of him this morning. I watched with you for tail the tape and yeah, Jacksonville, and he very doeslike just give him give me six just watching him run. My whole argument gave sixty nine catches. He does numbers from last year. Can he do that, say he catches six touchdowns? I don't. I don't think you should um equate running the ball

better with running the ball more. You can run the ball better and be more productive with Zeke on the field, It doesn't mean he's got to have thirty carries a game. The problem last year was when he wasn't on the field, they had nobody to threaten the back end of the defense. Guy. How many carries did he get last year? How did Alfred Moore's average almost the same amount of yards but he didn't average touchdowns? See that's the that's okay. And

where's he at now? Oh no, I'm still a free agent? Right, So that tells you what not only teams think about him, but probably tells you what defensive coordinators thought he did and threatened them. God bless him. He served a great purpose here, great God right for sure. Oh, you can never say a bad word about him. But no one's picked him up. Yeah, and the Cowboys he was their lead dude. No one's picked up des Brian either. Yeah, those are your two lead dudes on offense. And they're

still sitting there right now. As Brian would say, m Yeah, NFL is a strange lady. All right, Well, we're going to take our first break. When we come back, we are going to tell you where has Zach Martin been, When might we see him? Who else has been missing for Motier's and what can we see from them in the future. So join us when we come back right after this break. It can be hard to find the

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gets you set up, ready to go. Okay, So last week of OTAs, next week is mini camp, then they break for the summer. We all know how Brian feels about that. Not a big fan of their schedule. The full schedule has been released. We posted about it on Dallas Cowboys dot com last week. They leave out for training camp Oxnard Point Magoo on July twenty fourth, and they will anticipate to return on August seventeenth, so they have some time off. But until then we're at training

or we're at OTAs and we're at mini camp. And of course no Zach Martin so far through the OTAs obviously everything with the contract, but Stephen Jones, of course, echoing the message that no one wants him here more than they do. But can we anticipate that it will be done before training camp? What are you guys really feeling in your gut. I don't have a feeling on that anymore. I thought it was gonna get done last summer. I still think it's going to get done before the

start of this season. Would probably be my gut because last year Zach decided I just want to focus on the season, which seems smart. Yeah, I mean, that's that's his right, So I think if following that logic, but they would push to get something done by the end of preseason. Um, I don't know that's going to happen. But the fact that we've heard he's been working out here even though he's not participating in the OTAs, I don't consider this like a quote unquote holdout or something

where it's contentious at all. So that's good, dude. You know that's a good sign. He's under contract, right, Yes, so he'll be here next week. He will be mandatory. Will he practice, Yeah, maybe not, maybe not, but he'll be here out there. Can he choose that or would I don't know if that they would force. Yeah, they're not going to ask you, not going to get a

contentious thing. It's one of those things where you know, if they want to get this done too, they don't want to put him in a situation where he might you know, you'd get it'll be it'll be done by July twenty ninth. I think Searly in camp all right, because those first three days they can't put pads on right right, So twenty six, twenty seven, twenty he's on the plane. He's on the plane to well even if he's not a yeah, he's under contract, he's got a report. Yeah, yeah,

otherwise you're subjected to be fine. Yeah, I think this will get done. When Zach Martin tells his agent to get it done, that's yeah, because that's that's what Maybe this is what that's what's gonna happen. I mean, the whole thing is probably about structure. Well, how much guaranteed money are you giving me? We look kind of get you know, year guarantees. Stewing Radio the other day on one oh five three, and I kind of went through

the top five guards. Zeitler and those guys, Gabe Jackson, people like that and all the ones that fans know so well. Yeah, but those guys are making an average of like twelve million dollars a year, you know, nor Vell. Yeah, yeah, So I think that it's gonna be this is gonna get done. When Zach Martin says, listen, Okay, that's a fair deal, let's do it. Yeah, I think the Cowboys are just you know, they yeah, they want to get

it done. But I've made this mention before. This is a position that traditionally has not been paid until recently, and you're trying to figure out it seems like every time a guy signs a new deal at guard, a guy comes along and beats that deal. So you have to structure it in a way. Cowboys have got some situations too, where guys in the future, if you look forward, have got some contracts that they have to think about.

So you have to make sure that not only for this year, but in coming years, that your situation is good enough to kind of make sure that you don't you can sign everybody that you need to sign. And so, but I do think I agree with Mickey. I think it's going to get done in training camp. But I do believe it's going to be when Zack Martin says to his agents, Okay, that's good enough. Let's put this behind us. It's a fair deal. Move on and come this week. They picked up three more million dollars in

the salary cap. Right, the June one payoff for Orlando Scandron. Right, they get his base salary back, so you get three million dollars. They're not that they need more money for this year because if they signed him to a long term deal, his nine point three million dollars base salaries going to go down, right, and and it'll factor out that they'll I bet they cut that in half, so they'll pick up even some more money. Could they got

draft class signed? Could they? Could they go ahead and say play under the current contract this year and then next year, you could if you wanted to. If you hadn't they feel like you had the rootten Yeah. What's his feeling on that? Does he want the security now? No? No? I think he's saying, signed the deal, signed the deal, but let him have nine point three millions, right, okay, right, right,

because you have the room for no, right, absolutely? Yeah, just and then and then and then what you have to be careful though, if you give him a signing bonus.

You don't want that to add on to nine point three million, right, So you would like to restructure that he's gonna make nine point three million this year, right somehow, some way right between signing bonus, how much they pay up front and then guarantees down the road, they're gonna have to get him somewhere between twelve and fourteen million dollars. Now do you want to pay him more than Tyron Smith? That, my friend, is the the way that contracts fall guard tackles.

Though it doesn't. It's the timing of the whole. It's the timing. He came along at the right time in history where guards are now getting paid. So Tyron Smith is gonna deal. Now, Tyren Smith's going to figure out if okay, this lifetime deal that I just signed, how bad is that really for me? Now the problem he's running into, Tyron Smith is the health, his health, So

now you can negotiate. Yeah, so I mean his if Tyron Smith is is of course Pro Bowl, Pro Bowl, Pro Bowl are are all pro and all that, But if it's now Tyren Smith's only playing twelve games, eleven games, then it becomes you don't really have a much of a leg to stand on right there, Tyron's twenty seven feels like he should be about thirty five. You know, this, this whole deal is kind of reminiscent of Greg Ellis

signing that long term deal. Yes, and he was coming off a torn achilles, I believe, and he ended up signing seven year deal or something like that. Yeah, and then what happened with it by the end of it. By the end of it, it was like, oh, this is not very good, and which reminds I think I've told you guys this story before. We were talking about it.

Pat summer All was part of the discussion, and I said, well, I said, you know what happened is he signed that deal and then all of a sudden, the contracts for the defensive ends exploded, right the salary cap went up. And I said, you know he, I mean, he's a little bit bitter about it, and he just came came along too soon, too soon, And summer All goes, we all came around too soon, meeting what he was getting paid to be an announcer and then what they're getting

paid now. The other thing about that, too, is they moved him a linebacker, which he didn't want to do and that might yeah, and that might have fell into three fourth thing that could affect your asking power too, So you're earning power well anyway, but anyway that but yeah,

Tyrn got like a ten year deal for you. When Tyron signed it was great, right, Yeah, Zach Martin is going to be the highest paid lineman for the count on July twenty ninth, exactly, by July, by July twenty ninth, sorry to put words your yes, all right, well could be tomorrow, that's by July twenty ninth. We're always right. So they're missing what eight eight guys if I countered right, well, guys, justices, Yeah, for whatever reason, you've got him, right, Sean Lee, they're

holding outst holding out right. Elie's still rehabbing from his shoulder surgery, right Looney from his wrist surgery. Right Lewis Neil has a hamstring. He's still rehabbing. We mentioned Tyron Williams, and then Terrence Williams. Terrence Williams, Tyrone Williams, it's okay, and then David Irving. Yes, so the last two names on there. I wanted to ask you guys this, and it's kind of tapers and Taper and Tapper injury. We'll see Suppose Lee wasn't that bad of a concussion. I

hope not. I like the guy and I'd like to see him not actually be mine. All Right, this question bear with me because it sounds mean, but it's not intended to be mean. Mean today, I'm not trying to be but I'm asking who do you think had a worse offseason, Terrence Williams or David Irving, because when you look at both of them, you know they both have such a great opportunity. Terrence Williams being the obvious one. You don't have Dez Bryan in front of you anymore.

Go out there, show him what's up. You know you've been He posts on social media Moore and talks about this and what he can do. And you know, from the majority of his career he's been able to kind of understand his role on this team. He's had some flashes,

some unbelievable catches. Obviously Seattle game sticks out in your mind, but it's just this offseason has not been going his way on the field with the injuries, and now you're looking at some different off the fields, and then you're looking at someone like David Irving, where you've known some different off the field situations. He's had the suspension, went through a whole contract thing where they're waiting to see if he was going to get tendered, went through that

whole tender process. You've seen some different things on social media with his you know, family, and that's been unfortunate to see that play out. And then just now he needs to get back into shape. And I just don't know, I mean, both of them. I just want to be like, why can't you just get Williams wouldn't be practicing anyway. But that's what I'm saying. I mean, he's just had a bad off season. The deal broke his fifth metatarsals, so he figure out how we did that? Was he

running barefoot in the parking line? I don't There was three in the morning. I just I was wondering if you and your yeah, your newspaperman. Whenever he was doing out, there's paper man. But that's what I'm saying. I mean, even that, you know, it's just unfortunate. Some of these things. Of course they can't control. I think from a competition standpoint, there's a more glaring need for David Irving to get

in there and settle this defensive tackle situation. Although when we talked about receiver, um needing to find a guy, and I think Williams has got some competition there, even though I think his experience is value yallup, he's right, yeah, but um boy, they need David Irving to step in there and play that three technique or something. You know, especially right now with Collins being hurt. You know, the

depth there is not is not great. So I look at that more so than receiver, even though we don't have de fine roles at receiver yet. Well, he's he's opened the door for jehad Ward, who's played really well, and the stuff I've watched, yeah, he's been he's been a problem for these guards. And I know it's not Zack Martin playing there, but he's been a problem for Connor Williams. And and who has ever had to play right guard, whether it's Jad Green or Martin. Not not

Zack Martin. But when you talk about John, you've mentioned that Will had a knife for him. Will McClay when coming Baron Ellie to Maryon Ellie put him an inside at tackle at Illinois. He was really an end and maryon Ellie kicked him inside and he's found him a pretty good player there. I like what I've seen so far from him, I really really do. And you know what the good part is, he's a happy camper. Yeah, he won't say anything bad about Oakland, but he's darn

glad to be out of there. Yeah, you didn't get a chance to see what Gruden would bring or Vegas. They didn't give him a chance either, because if you remember, his rookie year wasn't all that bad for you know, where he was drafted and everything. We ask you, guys, this expected though, kind of from what we've known about David Irving in the past, is that is that one of the most unfulfilled so far careers. He's the potential. And what really nails home your point is that he

will tell you that. He will say, look, I've done some stupid stuff back to college where I think he got kicked off the team, and yeah, he understands he's part of the reason why he doesn't have a long term deal. Yeah, I mean he'll admit it to you. So, Yeah, for sure, he's got amazing talent. Amazing talent. He definitely was overweight. No, I don't know what he was doing. I shouldn't call him that. I'm the same way and then yeah, but Marion Nellie did. Okay, Marion Elly can

call me that too. Yeah. And right now he's too fat, Bill, and he's got to take care of his personal life. Yeah, And I don't know if they're allowing him to kind of figure all that out and get all that straight before the season starts or not. But he's got to take care of that, and so I don't know if they've given him some leeway and we'll find out, right, but U you know, it sort of reminds me of

somewhat Leon Let. Leon was always going to be that guy the next year, and then something would happen, you know, he'd he'd get hurt, he gets suspended, and it's like the season starts and then he'd get hurt and it's like he he was going to be this great Pro Bowl player six times, right, and it it just never happened. And there's kind of similarity in the way they play, yeah, No, kind of a unique frame and ability to play multiple spots,

play inside. Yeah, And so that's a good comparison. Yeah, I mean, you hate to say it, but you know, because I'm sure Leon figures. You know, I just never really reached what I everybody thought I could have. Well, from what you're talking about with you know, have you are you surprised by this type of situation. No. I mean I remember after the Green Bay game and David Irving, you know, wins NFC Offensive Player of the Week, and

you know, you bring up Marionelli. He's very honest about his guys, and I remember people are like, well, you know, what does this mean for him now? And he goes show me it again. You know, all that they wanted to see from him is the consistency in town. And you know, you see these flashes and then suspension, you see this and then something else, and you know, it's just show me consistency. I know a lot of people have been talking about DeMarcus Lawrence in this offseason, but

he has to do the same thing. He has to have another consistent year of success. So unfortunately, you feel like though that Lawrence tracking up, Yes, absolutely, but David Irvin You're like, Okay, glad he's back. And then but you're like going, oh, I could just get him on the field and let him play sixteen games man average is like a sack of game. You know, it's incredible. I've never seen a player be more productive for as

little time as he plays. He could have had he could have challenged Lawrence with a full season stand the concussion into year. It's incredible to see him play the way he does and then and then. But you look at reliability, that's all these front office and coaches want, and Taylor you even said it. It's it's that reliability. Well, do you trust him? The good thing is you know what? You know what he is? Right, right, you know what

Terrence Williams is. So these OTAs, yeah, they're great, they're learning sessions, but you're given other guys a chance to find out a little bit more about before your hoards there you go, right, you're right, yeah, and there's other guys. There's other spots Daytone Jones more than those are your starters, war did Jones. You're two starters inside defensive end. Tacos getting more reps with the Marcus, Lawrence getting some rest days. So that's good for him. Oh my list just grew

to ten now, Collins, I forgot he was out. Yeah, I wanted to keep growing it keeps growing here. I think about it, well, as long as it's not growing in training camp. Yeah, that's that's that's when we have those when we have those shows, we do and everybody's like, all right, Mickey fired through the injury report and then well that was a show that's very number one. Yeah, exactly. I'm I think we're all hopeful for David Irvin, but I think if I'm going into this camp, I'm skeptical.

I'm hopeful, but skeptical. Is that right? Is that like an oxymoron? Am I? No? No? And you know what? And am I being a moron for thinking? I think when he finished the season last year, in the back of his mind it was like, I don't know if I'm coming back. Yeah, you know, I don't know if they trust me. And it's my fault one thing concussion, I guess, yeah, which he started the year with the suspension end of the game this year with four games

out with the concussion. I'm with you with the hopeful part, because look, he's on a one year deal, he's got a lot to prove. He's he's a restricted free agent one year tender. He can hit the market next year and cash in with a big year, so he's got he's got a lot to play for. Absolutely. I like your hopeful optimism and figuring things out at training camp because I think that leads well into Rob's Twitter poll that we're gonna get to vote on during this last

brand vote live. I don't vote anonymously, that is true. All right, we'll join us after this break. We'll be right back. Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't cut it, and your skincare should be no different. A long time locker room favorite of the players and the official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Dallas based Jack Black is the number one best selling men's skincare brand in the country because we make products

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You'll get to talk x's and os with Senior Director of Player Personnel Will McClay and of course with yours truly me, Brian broad Us you can trust the official fan travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, and with us you'll travel like a pro. Visit Cowboys Travel dot com to book your travel package today. Before there was a draft, you could size up a cowboy by three simple factors. The crease in his hat, the bend of his brim, and his unbending attitude a man. Stetson didn't just protect

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supporting the Boys no matter what. That's why, when the game's on the line. You're on your feet, whether you're at home or stands. Actually, you're more than a fan. You are a member of Cowboys Nation, and so is AT and T doing their part to keep you connected to America's team all season. Law AT and T is a proud member of Cowboys Nation. This is talking Cowboys. Hey, let's not forget about Papa John's pizza because we know why it tastes so great. Those ingredients. Ah, the veggis fresh, oh,

never frozen. Then that pepperoni. Yeah, they need to get some of that pepperoni here because it's one hundred percent USDA approved and with ingredients like that, you have better pizza. And it's Papa John. I have a present for you, Mick. You know they got media days going on. Yeah, and they're you know, trying to feed everyone that's and everything. So if you I'm gonna bring you some Papa John's

because it stays fresh all day too. All right, well, just bring a little because I'm trying to get in shape for training camp because once we hit training camp, we don't don't you take off your shirt in front of us and put on other shirts and uh, by the way, by the way, Um, seventy four years ago. D Day Invasion today laughing, Yeah, I know, it's just a little historical, your dad, it's my dead landed on

Omaha Beach on June eighth. So he was in the second wave and I'm guessing twenty five years old, probably never shot a gun at anybody. And when they landed, like there were at the end all fifty miles I was reading. I wanted to catch up four thousand troops dead And when they landed and they're waiting through the water, guess what was there two days later waiting for him. I would have said, uh no, I changed my mind.

Can I get back on the boat? Well wow, so yeah, seventy four years ago, but it, you know, all led to liberating France and important day for sure, very very important day. All right, well Rob's Twitter poll? All right, back to football. Who will be the backout quarterback this season? Mickey, you got three options, Cooper Rush, Mike White, the rookie, or an outside veteran currently not on this roster. That's what I knew. Was it gonna be the third choice

to be determined? Um, it will start off with Cooper Rush, not saying that's how it's gonna end. Oh, the questions how's it gonna end? Oh? I thought it was who's gonna be the No. I mean, it'll start off with Cooper Rush during the season this season and then beware of what happened last year, keeping three, keeping Mike White. Yes, at this point, now we'll see what happens when the pads come on. Who else who's got a vote? He said, how is this going to end? Yeah? I guess, I guess.

I mean when the season starts, and if you want to take it a step further, Okay, who's your number two behind Dak? Okay? Luckily. The beautiful thing about your Twitter pool, I think is the interaction we have from fans and a lot of times, you know, even though they vote, they also respond to everything that you know is going they do comments. Yeah, and I thought one in particular that I saw and I will have to find out the exact name. Someone said, start out with Rush,

he gets traded for somebody out there. Then by week gate, Mike White is breathing down their neck. I'll often find this exactly because I was like, crazier thing the whole scenario. Yeah, this was Victor. He said, they trade Rush before week one, and White will be breathing down Dak's neck by week week gate broad us is rights is right, Hu, I like Mike White. I still think Cooper Rush is going to be the backup quarterback though I do. Yeah, Cooper Rush though he's kind of one of those guys, but

I think that he is. There was really no pressure on him last year. The way he came into training camp. They gave him. They gave him the reps he took. He was able to make those good. He went into games, he was very productive. He was one of the most productive quarterbacks, you know, young quarterbacks in the league. If you just look at the preseason game. I think he led the matters the NFL and all the statistical categories. So I think he will once again be your backup quarterback.

But I think now he does have some pressure on him. I think he's going to have to perform as well or better than what he did when he made this football team last year. You know, they obviously like Mike White. You know, Mike White is a guy that and I don't I hope I'm not blowing smoke up everybody's rear about this, but you know, Mike White is a you know on my board was I had him as a

higher grade than Dak Prescott. If you look at the two as evaluations, think, Mike why, whether it's here somewhere else, will be a starting quarterback in the National Football League. I just don't think he will be this year. So did they have a fourth quarterback last year in training camp? Or was just three of them? And I was okay, Kelly, they had they had remember three? They had the quarterback from Florida that they couldn't take a snap he was

cut by the Yeah, he was covering. So yeah, I think they went to Yeah, I think they went the three. They went with three, so there was no one if they were going to keep three, right, Oh no, no, No, they had the veteran guy. The veteran they brought in the veteran guy. One of them accounts, Yeah, one of them accounts. Luke McCown remember one of the accounts came in halfway through said more than just a camp half yeah, halfway he's oh, that's right, that's right. We were. We

were an Oxnard. He was coming in an Oxnard when we were getting ready to leave. Because he was a lot skinnier and he was right part of the time, and then he got They got him off the couch. Remember the game two hundred and fifty thousand, Get off the couch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, So anyway, I felt like though again with for Rush, no real pressure on him, and he was able to perform. Well, He's got some pressure on him now because Mike White. But Mike White

needs to perform well too. They're not give Mike White that job. But if they're gonna go for a young movement and both those guys are young, I should do Like Mike White, Well, we're gonna get a chance to see them, especially in preseason because I can't imagine they're gonna play Dak Nope that much, although they need to with all the new wide receivers. So you're gonna have to find a happy balance. That's what training camps for

to me. Yeah, what I need is I don't need any of these receivers knock on wood to not get I don't need any hamstrings. I don't need you to miss any time. I need everybody out there. You got to evaluate. I need everybody out there. I need your running routes against those young corners. So I think they're pretty good. I need I need Byron Jones to get some work out there, you know, Alan Hearns. I need you practice and every day. You know, Gallop, I need

you practicing every day. I am trying to evaluate my team here, so hopefully they can stay through the injuries. I said before, I worry about this this month off they have after this is all over with, I worry about that. But that's just me. You gotta vote. Yeah, well that's I was. I was going more with the fans. I liked what they said. I think I think as it stands right now, Cooper Rush and then you know, it's just a way. The way it happens at training

camp is bizarre. You know what happened, I'll never be able to truly understand it. Then, when we watched what happened with Dak throughout that training camp, I mean, you guys know this and anybody who else has been out to Alex and if you haven't, highly recommend going out there. It's a great experience. Um but I mean I remember we were out there and you're standing there and you guys know when the big players come out, you hear it. Yeah, And the first few days Dak was out there throwing

the football. I don't think anyone really cared or noticed him. By the end of that camp, there were a lot of cheers. Yeah, it's great we watched history. I mean, just bad luck for Kellen Moore. But you know, Cream usually rises to the top anyway eventually, because now he has a great job in the NFL. He does he's coaching these guys. Um the fans Agrieve sixty nine percent,

Cooper Rush twenty nine percent. Mike White. I think nobody feels like they're going young at quarterback, so nobody really voted. I'm sorry the percentage were okay, and Jays made it no. Look, man, we're gonna try to develop young guys instead of going with vets who are probably knows. It's good that it's good that the fan base understands now about trying to get the young quarterback developed. It's like they're not waving that flag as yeah, oh there's veterans out there, you

gotta bring them in. I think I think that we've seen the problems that they've had trying to trade and sign and do everything to get a veteran quarterback here. I think I think the fans had enough. I think they've had enough of that. Hey, if you're gonna if we're gonna go down, let's go down swinging with a young guy. Let's play with Cooper Rush. Let's throw Mike White out there. Heck Dak Prescott young keep throwing him out. He tried. We they Jeff Castle. Yeah, work didn't work.

All right. Well, before we move on anymore, you guys are getting a great veteran in my seat starting next week. His name Bill Jones. I'm sure most Cowboys fans, most listeners to this podcast. He will be taking over as I transition more into my role as content strategists, spending more time, and I know everyone loves the meetings. So thank you guys. Thanks to everyone who's listened, who's tweeted, who's played along with Rob's Twitter pool, Mickey's minute. We've

had good times on this show. So Bill Jones will do a great job. But I do ask all of you guys, as you keep okay, Ken, thank you though, thank you. Ket ket has always produced the best podcast. But as you guys keep going and we're trying to continually improve our content. As brought us brought up at the beginning of the show, tale of the Tape, different things like that tweet at me, let me know, I can share it with some people. We can get some

more ideas flowing. Because when you just get it out there and share what you want to see, we can probably help you get that. We're lucky enough here. So thank you, guys, and oh, thank you Jay for which did I mean? Uh, We've we've been together more than any I mean, I know you and Bill originally start this this thing a long time ago, so on television, on television even so, but no, I do appreciate Tay your enthusiasm for the job. To try and get us all on the same page is not an easy thing

to do. Yeah, So Bill's gonna come in for one show and then yeah, and then you're going to training. Came then we're going to figure it out crazy schedule. You know, it's gonna introduce him three old men and a young man more show. It was. It was just a mutual decision. Yeah, mutual decision. Well, I've loved this dynamic. I've loved the energy you brought. And you know we've had Bill on this show and we love Bill. But um, we're gonna miss you for sure. Yes, absolutely, but she's

not going anywhere. Still gonna be bugging Mickey up. I thought she was leaving on this set, Mickey sort of those guys. One of these I got on the little note and it was like, Okay, she found another job. She's leaving. Oh no, Arkansas. I'm not leaving. I am staying. Yeah. Content strategists moving into that new rule. You never know. We might be having more podcasts, we might be doing some other things. But let us know what you guys think. Yeah, oh no, they're gonna let you make that decision. I

love Mickey. If anyone's ever questioned us, it's just the best. Yes, the strategist. It's like you're a baseball team. They got the guy up in the bar moneyball. He's the strategist. Yeah, I'm just sitting there doing strategists. How can we get mix shots to get more views? Guys, we need mix shots to get more views. Were gonna write about Kyler Murray tomorrow? How about that baseball ninth pick? All right?

One year? Moving on, moving on, as we get back into football, we're talk can we go Can we go to Washington with the Eagles? Oh they're not going NFLPA Bill Jones A welcome to the show. Pretty strong, pretty strong statement there from the PA. What did they submission? Oh gosh, should you're gonna spend seven more minutes talking

about something so depressing? I thought you were gonna go to the last five minutes appointed in the decision by the White House to disinvite players from the Philadelphia Eagles from being recognized and celebrated by all Americans for their accomplishment. This decision by the White House has led to the cancelation of several player led community service events for young

people in the Washington, DC area. NFL players love their country, support our troops, and give back to their communities and strive to make America a better place. The report in the Philadelphia Inquirer said, Jeffrey Lurion maybe ten players we're gonna go. Yeah, So they just decided that something that's not going to uh go away quietly, very divisive, but what we've been on this show. Also, of course, we have to send our thoughts and prayers to Dwight Clark's

family in the San Francisco forty Niners organization. And then just recently, uh literally moments ago, Dave Gettleman announced that he is lymphoma, So thinking of them as well. Dave's good Scalp, known him a long time, and yeah, it's uh this uh, these uh, these diseases and sicknesses, they they don't they don't play, Uh, they don't play favorite, pick and choose, they don't pick and choose. So yeah, and thoughts with Dave. I know, the whole sky can

be wonderful man, with the Giants, fiery competitor. I respect what the Eagles are doing as well, um, you know, with their situation. So a lot going on in this uh, losing somebody, a lot of things going on in the world with other things as well. So we'll try and make the best we can out, you know. Good for the forty nine ers that they had the day for Dwight Clark and we were there that Yeah, that was the game we were at and you know, and you know,

the writing was on the wall. You just don't recover from als, Nope. And they had him in the box there and he was able to kind of stand up and be recognized and that video they did was just fabulous. Um. And they were fortunate to have done a interview with him early in that disease. So he was able to kind of speak that way, but it was it was

pretty powerful. Sorry, real quick, But for recent fans of the NFL and for football, when you think of the catch, you think of Odell Beckham Jr. And maybe even some fans mainly think of Dez Bryant and the catch that wasn't and how the catch rule has come to be and the different things the NFLPA and the owners and everybody has voted on. But Dwight Clark's the catch was unbelievable and if you have a chance to YouTube it

and watch it, well what it did. It changed the course of history for two franchise, absolutely did, because San Francisco had never been to the Super Bowl never, and the Cowboys were getting ready to go for the sixth time.

Yeah uh, And and we saw what happened to the Cowboys in the eighties, and the San Francisco forty nine Ers took over as a team of the eighties when the Cowboys were basically sharing the team of the seventies with the Pittsburgh Steelers, right, I mean, they went to five Super Bowls in a decade and they were getting ready to go to their sixth until he pulls in

that catch Dwight. I met him he was the general manager for the Cleveland Browns when I was in scouting and he I went up, introduced myself to him, and I said, you know, I cried the day you caught that ball. Being a cowboy fan, Yeah, I cried. And he goes, well, you know, Joe was trying to throw it away, and you know we got lucky and all that and to this. And then I would see him at other meetings, at other functions. He would go, hey, Brian,

I caught that ball. Yeah, still caught him And I go, you caught it so yeah, And Joe Montana would never admit he was trying to throw Those words have never come out of Montana. Yeah, he was trying to throw it away. So yeah, that's a tough loss, really tough loss for years old. Yeah, I know, so young. But we are we're moving into a new season. Obviously, new shows, new different things. We have your Deep Blues coming up with Parcels and some other storylines. Yeah, really excited about that.

You should be, yeah, Ken and really all the Deep Blues. We got some really good stories to tell and uh, some fun interviews and trying to peel back the curtain things people haven't seen, you know. That's that's our goal is to try to tell some stories that isn't a rehash of previous stuff, which there are a lot of stories around this building and around this history of not Yeah, that's what's great about it. Yeah, there's as endless you can have a brainstorming session for months. Yeah, and then

it goes into deeper ones. I mean you're talking about leon Lett earlier, great and deep blue on him that I had no idea this amazing life story. So great stuff. Yeah, yeah, look forward to that preseason time. Yes, start rolling those out all right, guys, Well, thank you for my final talking Cowboys and Bill Joins will join you next week. And as Mickey said, the last show before you guys break for training camp, what are we gonna do? Wouldn't want it to end on any other way side. We

love you today. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.