Talkin' Cowboys: Rating The Running Backs

Phillips hosting for the great Bill Jones. We'll try to press forward without our fearless leader for the next couple of weeks. We should have pushed that chair there with the headset sitting there. Yes, this was Bill Joe a Channel eleven shirt. Yeah right, Yeah. Bill is headed back to Dallas. Did a great job hosting our broadcast of the Blue White Scrimmage yesterday Sunday afternoon. Cowboys kind of the super Bowl of Oxnard. The biggest on field attraction.

I think a little bit of tackling, a little bit of live contact stuff. And let's get into that. Let's get into that, Let's get into just the first week of camp. Mickey Spagnola, Brian brought us welcome. I'll tell you what it's a good thing. We had Bill there for that. Yeah, that was that was like that was a marathon. It was like a juggling act and he does it so well. Yeah. Absolutely, I want to say the excuse me, I'll get this out. The MVP of

this thing was my guy to my left. He did a really nice job of not only gathering really nice interviews but coming with some big information. That's what Sideline reporters were supposed to do right there, and this guy did it very well. I really appreciate the efforts of everybody on that and appreciate everybody out there that watched. You know, it's kind of a it's a practice until you get to the end, and then once you get to the end, now it's kind of like it's like

you've had dessert after you've had the prime rib. You know, you're kind of like, okay. But yeah, as you said, Rob, a lot of really good things for a lot of young guys, some guys stepping up that you know, and I give you credit for Jordan Chun by the way, you've been kind of tapping that bell as we've been along. Eh, don't you know, don't sleep on this guy. Don't sleep on Jordan Chunn, I thought yesterday helped himself. And again

in our eyes, they probably already knew. Mickey already probably knew. But Jordan Chun, I thought, did a really nice job. And it's good to see Mike White have a little success moving the team. That's line one for this coach. Moved the team, finished drives. He was able to do that yesterday. You're referring to that play it out period at the end, very end where it's it is finally

kind of a scrimmage they do tackle. It was about a ten play series with Mike White running the offense, Jordan Chun, Mike Webber getting carries at the running back position, and just an opportunity for the Cowboys coaching staff to evaluate those young guys leading into the first preseason game where those guys will probably get the majority of the reps. It was almost like they forgot they were supposed to tackle. Yeah.

Tag touched up and it's like, oh, no, I gotta put about the ground and three guys had had a shot to wrap him up. Yeah, and he acted like he was playing Minnesota Golden Gophers, is bouncing off guys and getting it. But really a nice physical run there. You know, not much at the point of attack for him to really make, but just kept his feet moving and was able to work his way out of that. Yeah, I thought we got a good look at those young running backs. Jerry Jones was when I got him after

the scrimmage. He was impressed with the running backs and he wasn't trying. And I know what people are thinking, Oh, he's just saying that negotiating and he knows better. But he liked what he saw from Pollard, just how fluid he is, how he can do so many different things. You know. Obviously Chun stood out, and then the way Alfred Morris had a couple nice runs, and he went into how the coaches really like how he adapts to what they want to do in the running game. And

again he wasn't sitting here. Okay, we got Alfred Morris, zeke, you better show up. That's not what he was doing. And then he mentioned Webber too, So yeah, I thought the young running backs did a nice job. The young quarterbacks continue to improve, I think as as the training camp goes around. And then the one guy Jerry couldn't wait to get to, uh was Joe Jackson hit that hit. He made Wow, who's that on? It was Weber Webber. They're gonna throw a screen, right. The screen gets set

up nicely coming out the gate. Kelln. Moore's like, okay, we're gonna start the scrimmage. We're not gonna run thirty seven or thirty eight off the edge. No, we're gonna sit there and throw you a screen. They get it set up and it looked like to me, Webber it was like going, I'm going we get blockers, blockers out of front, and all of a sudden, here comes this two hundred and eighty five pound man on a fifteen yard run like he's like he's Xavier Woods playing in

the middle of the field. It just I think when when weeb it got up he kind of adjusted his face mask as him like, okay, who just hit me? You know? But this is practice, right they did, and he just came out of nowhere. But they said, I'm

trying to remember who told me. I think it was Jason, he said that's what we or mate was Jerry one of the two Sorry, uh he said that's what we saw on tape before the draft that he played to the whistle and the effort was always great, and he just kept never gave up on a play, I mean, because you weren't think about it where that screen was fifty s from He's on an upfield rush, yeah, Mitch Hyatt, And Mitch Hyatt does a nice job of saying, you know,

don't let anybody beat you across your face. So Hyatt walls him out, and then all of a sudden it turns into, oh wait, there's a screen on their side, and in Hyatt kind of soaked down my job. Joe Joe Jackson's like, no, you haven't. And he starts on a sprint seriously, I mean he is covering some ground like a linebacker or safety. Yeah. And and by the time that Webber's trying to kind of cut back, boom

right there, laid him out and he did. He kind of kind of had to adjust his helmet once he got up big ten football again, you know, And and and what does Garrett always say, you know, when you you can go through camp camp, camp, practice, Well, but you gotta make plays. And he made a play and somebody noticed it. And you know what, he's a guy to me that's easy to get lost in this mix right now of sixteen defensive Lineman because to my recollection, he was the one guy when the rookies first came

in we didn't talk to Joe Jackson. And they've got so many young guys in that group, right, it's hard to really sit, uh siphon through all of them, right and figure out who's you know, who's ahead of who in in this you know, first through third string right now. But that's that's a guy. That's the type of thing that kind of separates yourself a little bit deep. When he puts the pads on, Yeah, boy, he looks the part. He's two eight. And Marinelli and we mentioned this before

I'm talking Cowboys. Marinelli told me he goes, you know, and and at times I see the possibility of moving him there inside. That's that's that's the that should be the point right there is because when we get into these preseason games and we're trying like heck to get through it, and it's final drives and maybe somebody's trying to win the game on you, you know, you're playing defense, there's gonna be half to be a rotation of guys

because the starters, as we all know, don't play. It's gonna be it's gonna be guys like Joe Jackson and Dorian's Armstrong and those guys trying to kill a game at the end to get off the field. And the fact that he can maybe play. We haven't seen him play the three technique or the undertackle, but like Mickey says, good nugget from him. Rod Marinelli. Rod Marinelli again thought he was shocked that he was still on the board when they got picked. That's what the first thing. Astro MARIONI, man,

this Miami kid, you know, he goes, hey, goes. I am shocked that he was still on the board when we picked. So let's see if something like this can elevate him and kind of get him, you know, going in camp and some of the practices and stuff, because he's been kind of quiet. Another guy, I thought, and I don't know if you noticed this, but this is just from scouts ice stuff. I noticed Donovan Wilson playing

in ten play scrimmage better. He hasn't had the safety from Texas A and M He hasn't had the opportunity to really show that he can play with range, he can cover. He you know, he just hasn't had enough of that look. So sometimes you get lost with these safeties. You're saying, we're all noticing Xavier Woods. Yeah, we're all noticing, uh, Jeff Heath or Cavon Frazier or Thompson. We're noticing those guys, but we're not you know, you're not seeing People are

asking about don Wilson. But he got an opportunity. There were two or three times. I'll tell you one time, and I this is impressive on his part. Uh. They were they were in a situation where the ball is gonna go to the outside, They're gonna run chun to the outside, and all of a sudden he's having to play the point of attack because he's the down safety.

So now he's taken on Mitch Hyatt at the point of attack, keeping his outside arm free in order to leverage to get Nate Hill or Hall excuse me inside so he can make the tackle. But he comes off to help in the town and then he makes a tackle on his own in space. You know, those are the kinds of things that you need to show that that kind of gives me. He's like, Oh, there's Donovan Wilson.

That's what he looks like. Oh, I saw that at Texas A and m It kind of reminds you that these guys are out here trying to make this team. And like Mickey said, those are types of plays that the coaches put in their mind and say, Okay, maybe he could do this in San Francisco, maybe he could do this against the Rams. Those kinds of things. Yeah. Did I hear you say Xavier Woods? Yeah? Everybody hear that? Ye? All right, he's a safety, right, and he's playing awfully

well here. And number three, and he's not making thirteen million dollars a year. Oh yes, it always goes back to that, doesn't it. I just couldn't you gotta spay? Look, and you know what, Mickey saw an opportunity to kick me while But no, but that's but that's you know, that's that's actually you. I everybody else, No, Earl Thomas. Oh trust me, Mickey, I'm all about the players. You don't have to apologize to me. That's actually a well time point on two fronts. Because number one, he's making

plays out here, right, he is. Obviously he's showing some ball hawking, center fielding type stuff outre Yes. Now he he benefit on that interception yesterday, He benefited from a great play on the ball by Cheeto, right, uh, deflecting that pass and Dak trying to fit in a tight throw down the seam to Jason to yeah, and and you know coming up with that deflection for an interception. To your point, though, so much discussion in camp about money finances, how are you gonna sign all these guys

to long term deals. That's why you are judicious with who you spend money on in free agency. That's fair because you got to resign Dak Prescott, Amari Cooper and maybe at some point you resign as Ekiel Elliott. When that will be, we don't we don't know. You have to pick your positions that our priorities, and then you spend your money on those positions and you just try to survive at the other one. You got to have

a learn one or well you love the player. On Webber's bounce out touchdown, I think Gary Brown almost pulled a hamstring. Oh yeah, because he went running after him and all everybody else saw what happened, and when he came coming back on the sideline, Gary Brown, everybody was giving him grief. It's like, oh, coach, did yeah, did you think you were young again? Or something because Garry

he started pulled. Garry Brown is fun to watch dry practice because he sits right behind the line and when the ball would when the handoff, and especially with Zeke's and it opens up, he his hands immediately go up for touchdown. I mean you'll see him. He it's like the players even really fit, and he's got his hands on it. He knows, he knows what's gonna happen right there. But yeah, really nice job by by all those remics.

Rob can can I go? Micky had a great point about and I don't know if you want to say that point or not, but since we're talking about Zekel, we can go to Zeke. Yeah. If I'm sorry, don't mean to hijack what you're doing right there. But Micky made a really really good point during the broadcast. I said, heck, two hours, we finally we got something out of this.

But but the but the August sixth date that people have been kind of pushing out there and saying, Okay, this is a Zeke's not gonna miss this date, which is tomorrow. But you you talked to some people in high places that can explain that. Yeah, And and I just had a I had a question because I think we just assume we've read it right. And I was right in there with it. I thought, okay, that's a rule. That's a rule. And I said, well, you know where we're getting close to it. Let me clarify this just

to make sure we're right. And then I was told, no, you're not right. Uh that because he has Zeke has a fifth year, they picked up his fifth year option, then that rule doesn't apply. And what was they were trying to do with the CBA when they came up with this idea of four year contracts for guys for first rounders and then a fifth year option if you didn't pick up that fifth year option. They didn't want guys going into their fourth year saying, oh, I'm in

a precarious situation. I'm just gonna hold outright and try to get a contract right. And so they basically said, okay, you can do that, but if you do it past August six, then you're still in your fourth year. But because the Cowboys picked up his fifth year, this doesn't apply now. And then you know, and even anyway, they're gonna get this done sure, and so it wouldn't matter because you wouldn't never be going into the final year of his contract. But it was good to hear. And

all I did was asked a question. It wasn't like, you know, something trepid reporting, but sometimes you just got to ask a question. You never know what the answer is gonna got a good answer, and the answer was, Yeah, this doesn't apply to Zeke because he has a fifth because they've already accepted the fifth year tender right him that now all bets are off of him about an August sixth day. It sounds like it has to be guys going into their last There you go, that's that's

great right there it is. But honestly, I don't think he would have ever cared about it anyway, because not only is it two years left on the deal, there's always the option the Cowboys could franchise him in the future. I'm just thinking hypothetically and just kick the can way down the road. So would he really care about in a crude season when he's looking for a new deal anyway? I mean, when have I never got it this done? Yeah?

That that's that's a that's a direct quote. That is a direct quote from Jerry on was it Saturday and he said it. Yeah, you spoke to him for a long time one on one yesterday to me, they told him we had a lot of time to kill him. Did He went on the power play and he got a couple you know, I sat down with you and Bill MOUSI mean, we got forty five and it's left in the show practices. You know what. It reminded me. It reminded me of back. I believe it was two

thousand and two. The Cowboys did a scrimmage with the Texans. Yea, and we did it at Old robertson stage. Yeah, it was a night game. It was a night game. And we finished the scrimmage, they cut something out and the broadcast, if I remember correct, when we were supposed to go to ten and the scrimmage finished at about nine ten. Yeah, we forre fifty minutes to kill. It was short and I'm supposed to go down on the sideline after we finished the broadcast or the scrimmage part of it and

do interviews. And they told me we got fifty minutes to kill. See if you can get Jerry. So I get Jerry and I told him we have fifty minutes killed here. I said, can you can you just stay with me as long as you can? You know? Oh? Yeah. So I basically had my hand around his waist almost, and I said, when I let go, that means you can go, but you got to stay with me. And

God bless him. He talked and talked, and then he brought in Bob McNair, oh, the owner of the Texans, right, and we killed some time now, so this reminding when they told me we had all this time, I said, well, I'm gonna milk it. And then out of the corner of my eye I could I could see people start getting close, and I said, oh, yeah, they're interested in my interview. And then I realized they were waiting to talk to and I got done and somebody said, could

you have asked him another question? I said, hey, wait your turn. Yeah. Well, peeling back the curtain, I had Christmas Shard sitt in my chair for a few minutes to take over. Yeah, after you got right in a point, I ever got done. Kill me tell you this though, I was over where this is what really peeling back to curtain. Our blue marker on the boards out, I went and got a new one, ran into Christopher Shard. He says, hey, he goes, I'm sorry. I had to go on you there and said he apologized to us.

Chris apologized to us, and he sat there the whole time and watched the interview. He sat there, watched the whole thing, head hearing much the whole thing, and he finally looked at this, he goes, I gotta go watch. He turned to me and looked, pointed at his watched that I gotta get out of here. So sorry, but he today to apologize. He said, Hey, can we do it another time? Though? Can we do it? I say, coach, anytime we talk, We'll love to talk. We should have

got him today. Yeah, yeah, but I'll have to sacee up to him. Sorry, I talked to you out of your interview. He was interested, he was listening to you. He was just like everyone else. Anytime the Cowboys owner speaks one on one, let him go R. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let's let's take a break early and when we come back, maybe touch a little bit more on Jerry's meeting with

you and with media, Zeke contracts, all that stuff. Let's just get that out of the way and we can circle back to some things we liked in practice and in the first week of training camp, just kind of take a larger view of things when we come back on Talking Cowboys has been helping Cowboys fans see better since nineteen seventy two. He said, they don't miss a moment on the field. Get glasses best vision, clarity and protection with Ultimate Lens Package, three innovative technologies in one

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he's Doctor Pepper, and you can't have it. Now, that is it? Doctor Pepper craven, Doctor Pepper, the one you crave. Back to Talking cowboys talking back to Talking Cowboys. By the way, if you want to rewatch or if you haven't seen the Blue White Scrimmage from Sunday, it's archived on Dallas Cowboys dot com. Just check it out a mobile app, connected TV app, or YouTube. So go check it out. Brian, are you checking in on periscope for I am checking on periscope? Yeah, yeah, And it's just

it's one of those things. It's a question here, and so I mean, I didn't do my best to get it answered the right way. But it's Mickey's already said he doesn't think he thinks that the Zeke thing will take care of itself. But just they want to know, Mike. I think it's uh, mister Kay wants to know in a doomsday scenario as it stands currently, who would get the bulk of the carries in week one? Again, he's saying a doomsday a situation. He's not there for week one,

He's not the in week one. Is there any thoughts on do you think that they would go with what they know? I mean, we've started to see, even even with some of the team period yesterday, we started to see Pollard get carries ahead of Jackson. Jackson was first team yesterday, followed by Pollard and Alfred third time, right, right, But do you think the coaches would go back to what they know with like an Alfred Morris that they okay,

because we've we've accused them of that before. I had at least I think it might come down to more than just running the football. How comfortable? Because I don't know if we talk enough about Zeke as a pass protector and knowing what to do on the blitz and things like that, would they be comfortable enough with Tony Pollard after a month to do all of those things or would you have to go with the vet just for some of the other assignments besides running the football.

If you know coaches, they if they air, they air on the side of who do I trust? And you haven't seen anything from any of these other running backs. So to me, it's Alfred Morris with Pollard kind of being spoon fed. Okay, let's put him in this situation. Let's put him in that situation. Let's not over expose him for his inexperience, but he can help us. So

I think they go with Alfred Morris. You know, Darius Jackson will see where this thing goes, because I don't know that they would keep four running backs and whoever is the third running back since Morris doesn't play special teams, that third guy's gonna have to play special teams, meaning go downfield and make tackles and the only and if you notice how they're using Pollard right, you know he's he's he's in on the special teams, on the punt team,

on the uh, the punt coverage team. Stephen Jones said the other day, we gotta be mindful of not overworking him. Yeah, because we can so many spots and returns. He could do returns on the kickoff. I'm not sure he's a punt return guy, but he gets kickoff, and then you know, Jordan Chun's you know, as Brian said at the top of the show, you know he's showing up and he will play special teams. He can do different things. Uh So, yeah, that that field's gonna get narrowed down. It will be interesting.

But I still think it's Morris if if Zeke's not here, Yeah, I just gonna ask you here. Another question was and we I think we've talked about this, but I'll try and get this question answered anyway, all three quarterbacks make the fifty three man roster. I think it's possible. I wouldn't rule it out, but we're talking about so many other positions in terms of how many do you keep it running back, tight end, wide receiver, do you keep

six wide receiver, defensive line, defensive linemen, offensive line. Yeah, it's such a deep roster that you kind of just have this feeling that Cooper Rush or Mike White, one of the two really need to emerge here. But you know, if Cooper Rush is they're comfortable with him as the number two, and they feel like maybe they don't want to they can't try to risk a Mike White through waivers or something like that. Maybe you try to keep all three and you keep developing both of them. You know,

this is the camp that. Yeah, the guy that I kind of feel like is the fifty third guy, and I know he's gonna he was gonna make the team anyway, but I feel like that maybe he's not gonna help you this year. Is Connor mcgoverned. I'm kind of getting that. I'm getting that vibe about Connor mcgoverned as being a guy that was always going to be inactive. You know, this would been a perfect time for a guy like Connor McGovern to shine. You know, you're limited guard. Okay, wait,

he could play a little center two. Okay, you know, you could kind of do some things. I just think it was with him getting hurt in the OTA's boy, it's just she's killed any kind of momentum that you maybe had for him, because he could take every single rep out here. Yeah, and you could learn a lot about him going up against a human log and and trying to handle those inside guys here. And by the way, it's a pectoral strain for the third round pick. Is there a set timetable for him. No, I have not

heard a timetable. And you know what, more and more of this prolongs. Uh, maybe they put him on ir Yeah, if they don't think you know, if he's no more than fifty's then what do you get nine is it nine weeks before you're eligible to off? Right, So because they did that with one of the young guys. Was it was it Chris Covington last year or who was it they put on and then they brought him back,

it was one of the young guys, well, the linebackers. Yeah, yeah, And so maybe they do that with him to protect his rights but not have him lose the entire rookie season. See, that's to me, I just wish he could participated. I felt like that he could have really kind of out there right now. They would questionably be out there right now playing and then you know, and then he would be getting good work with the ones probably you know that opportunity. It's a shame that that's gone by the

wayside right now. That's that's a good point. Uh, you know, Zack Martin being out right now, that could have been Connor McGovern kind of mixing in a little bit right, just right, while while Zack's out. But now it's Sue Philo. See, I had Sue Philo as one of those bubble veteran cut guys, you know. I mean there's there's probably know everybody's asking about Austin and a Loca and those veteran guys that you might think, you know what, they got

too many young players. They've got too many young players to keep a veteran guy, even at good money, even at good money. But now it's like, well you sue a Philo. He lined up and played for you a lot of snaps last year, and now you're gonna, you know, could you use Joe Looony? I mean we've started to finally see Joe Looney played guard. He didn't play guard all last year. I mean, he was a center for you. So Redman, those guys, I just it would not used

to be seeing. It was nice to see if if McGovern could have been a better Redman, you know, I mean a better you know, okay, even though he's a rookie that he's still like, oh well he's playing better. You know, pass blockings good, the run blockings good. Hey, Redman gives you what he can. But this is a

kid that they had a second round right on. Absolutely honestly, they really like no, no, no, sorry, I got you got me, I got me drawn off side to people are on the on periscopeer asking about what you've seen from Lyle Collins. You know, I mean, I know we all have me me. I'm not should say you guys, but me kind of feel like that this is Lyle Collins last year because of having to sign everybody kind

of a thing. I'm just putting it out there. But is there anything you noticed about Lyle collins game that has been different? Going in now his third year as a starter, right, he looks to me more comfortable at right tackle than I've seen him. I thought I thought he was moving better with his feet, he wasn't over dending himself because he would get beat sometimes with the guy spinning inside he get off balance. And so maybe because I haven't noticed him messing up right that maybe

he's playing better. He looks more comfortable. I don't know. Maybe, And even with zach Out, I think he's held his own on the outside without Martin next to him, Sue a Field has kind of taken that spot. And then when they go to you know, when they have to go to the second team. Brian mentioned it. Redmond has been playing guard and then when they went to third

Looney came back in and flight some guards. Absolutely, and so they you know, it never fails, you know, you cut a guy, guy gets hurt and then you get an injury, right and now it's like, ah, we need a guard. So but Redmond shown him. Maybe he can be that swing guy. Looney can be the swing guy because I don't think they have another true guard on

this team. You know, it's funny, I'm forgetting. So they tried to they tried to claim a guy the other day off waivers were awarded the claim and the guy said, no, yeah, I'm done. I don't want to play anymore. So, I mean that just shows you what kind of luck they've had at that position, you know. And maybe I don't think they have an extra spot, don't they? They aren't they eighty nine right now? They haven't. They haven't filled it yet. You know, they haven't filled Larry Allen spot

right right. Stephen Jones said, like you said, Mick, they're looking for helping at guard cornerback with corners. Another spot right cornerback was another area because Chris Westry hasn't been practicing, and I forgot Wickman got hurt. Wiman, Yeah, and I was told he's probably out a month. Yeah, so he see he was terrible. See Wickman was it terrible because he was his situation was you could play him in

the preseason game and he's gonna be okay. You know, that's the whole thing I said on the broadcast yesterday. And I just just my experience. I want the best offensive line I could have. If it's veteran guys, I need them in the game because I'm trying to evaluate quarterbacks. I'm trying to evaluate runners, I'm trying to evaluate receivers. I don't need a bunch of three and outs during a game. I just don't need because of your offense,

because your offensive line can't protect. And then all of a sudden, the quarterbacks in a lot of second and twelves and then he's in a third and you know, a third and twelve. I don't need that. I need the offense to move so that that these quarterbacks can get some confidence and then they could also evaluate everybody else involved. And it's going to be really important speaking of that when they go to that second line. So you got fleming at left tackle right the right tackles problematic.

See that's and that's the question on periscope. Who is the backup right tackle, you know, I mean right now it would be because see they've moved Brandon Knight, they've moved him to guard. Yeah, so then, but it's Hia Campos can't and see Campos. To me, as much as they've they've kept Campos around, offensive linemen tend to be guys that until they learned how to whole trip and clip or just kind of just trying to feel their

way through campus. To me, I don't see from one year of training camp to this year any more strength, any more power, anymore real quality technique. I see a guy that's athletic, but I don't see somebody that could really sit down and kind of wall people off or get up on the second level and get a block. And I just I've had a real problem with him and watching him in the one on ones. He struggled with with speed rushers around these feet. Yeah yeah, well

you know what Hyatt struggled with it too. Yeah, there's a and there's a reason why Hyatt didn't get drafted, right, they started four years of Clemson. Sometimes he has trouble with that speed to the outside too, So yeah, they don't really have anybody to challenge at the point Fleming for that backup tackle job. Yeah, and I and to me, Fleming could very well be a liability. I mean that's where I think you have to be a little bit careful, you know. I mean you want to just throw this

and say, oh, this guy, he's gonna be automatically. I would like to see him challenge. Yeah. His his thing is he signed a two year extension or the the extra year. I mean the game a year and then he got an extra year, and you're kind of going, okay, it must be the confidence that he played well in the Philadelphia game, and I think he played against New Orleans and stuff and was okay. But I think there's more liability there than I think promise. That's just my evaluation.

He knows how to hold, does not hold because his body gets into some bad positions. Yeahs to answer your question about Lyle Collins, he's looked solid to me. I think if the guy though, if you're comparing him to Tyrn Smith, though, it's tough because Tyrn to me is one of the top five guys I've watched in camp so far. I think he's been out Him and Elite

Collins to me have been now they've been outstanding. Yeah, I mean Tyran lets nothing get past him, and Lee has been dominant ahead and throw Xavier Woods in there for all the plays that he's made. So yeah, it's it's it's guys. You kind of would think, you know, MALIEK. Collins and Stephen Jones even brought it up. He said, Hey, Lee Collins knows it's a contract year. Yeah, yeah, he understands that, and but I think with MALIEK. Collins, it's

not about a contract here, it's about being healthy, right. Sure, you know when MALIEK. Collins is healthy, Maleek Collins is a dangerous player inside for people to have to deal with. He had that he had that I'm trying to see. I was kind of on the falling along. Uh he had that play? Was it? On the during goal line? He busted through and dropped him for like a five yards. His speed is amazing and you're right when he's got

two good feet, he's incredible. Yeah, I was gonna ask, I was gonna go down the line because we started this track on the old line. I was gonna go down the line. Talk about Connor Williams. There was a play in one on ones where Connor Williams had has improved his strength. He is a bigger, stronger man than he was a year ago. Mallie Collins pancaked him, flattened him in a one on one. He missed his hands.

I mean, yeah, when he missed, when he missed with Connor Willaves missed with his hand and all of a sudden it was he was body was on Malie Collins and Malee Collins took his left hand and did the old Reggie White hump move where he just kind of tossed him aside. Yea, and yeah, three twenty pound man was laying on his back after that play. You know what, he's quiet. He doesn't say much right but on the field,

Oh he's a bad mama. He's mean. He's very mean when it when it comes to playing again, it's all about health with him, sure, it's all about hell. And just remember he was a heavyweight champion wrestler in high school. Okay, leverage leverage player, Yes, I didn't know that. You gotta have a mean streak to be a heavyweight champion. Let's just let's just keep going real quick on the old line. Travis Frederick, how is he looked through a few padded practices.

I think it's been better. I thought he got off to us low start, and more I'm more I see of him. He seems to getting his sea legs under him. So but it I hate to say it, but it's a process for he has to go through to get back used to playing football. And he's not doing the one on ones right now, and he's great and he's grateful for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know that's

pretty funny. This is this is one of those things where you know, if you want to really knee jerk, you're you're, you're, you're you're thinking that he's coming back. He's slowly working his way back and and and and you know, it's it's still gonna be a long way. I just hope that he regains and maybe he will never be at that all pro level again, because we don't know how debilitating this is. But at least he's I mean, there's some signs where he's okay, I'm seeing

some second level stuff. I'm seeing him sit down on a guy. You know, there's a couple of times where he's kind of been like he was in a revolving door, you know, when you go through a door and you and you kind of get caught and you're kind of turned and he's like, man, he's just he's always been such a good positional player. Yeah, he's always been snatched that three technique, get around, work your butt, get up

the field, get to another block. I mean, he's the reason why ezekiel It has had so much success because his ability to always say to cut that defense in half, you know, give that space, that gap, that lane. And I think he's trying really really hard to rekindle those thoughts of how great a player he was. And I'm sure there's some times now where he's grateful for being out there, but I'm sure there's some times where he sits in the huddle he goes, damn it, three years ago,

I made that block. You know, God, I can't believe I missed that block. Yeah, or I can't. I can't believe I didn't get that guy completely out of the play. I got him out, but I didn't get him completely out of the play. And dominate, you know, when you when when Dak was asked the question about Travis and what he focused on, he said, just running that offensive line, getting the call in first, allowing us to play fast, allowing me to trust what's going on, trust the protection,

so they trust what he knows up front. And he and Zach, I mean Dax Deal was allowing me to play fast because he he knows what's happening up front, right. I think that that's a that's a benefit, you know, and remember what we said coming coming coming into this training camp, and we knew he was going to be back on the first team. If he can get back to eighty percent of what he was by initially eight

percent of all pro would be great. And you you don't always have to have an all pro center, but you have to have a smart one that knows what's going on the brain. The brain and the mental capacity of him, I will never change. It's I worry a little bit about that physical that we've seen from that that he is so good at block it just positioning and being in the right spot. And I just hope this this this illness hasn't robbed him of some of that. You know, there wasn't. There was one play. I think

it was over here. I want to say it was in the red zone work yesterday, he got out in space, pulled out in space, helped create space for Darius Jackson on a swing pass, and I was like, Okay, that's good movement. That's good. You know, he's gotten out right and that's something he can do. That's all these linemen do really well with his feet, and I thought that

was impressive watching him do that. See, he's kind of in a catch twenty two situation because you don't want to overwork him, right, but he needs he needs to work. So in these preseason games, you know, how do you balance, like, gosh, he really needs to be out there, but I don't want to overdo it Week two against the Rams. In that preseason, hopefully he'll get a two couple of series we can kind of see maybe they're guys, maybe they're good players, will play a little bit and you can

kind of get a gauge, you know, right there. Yeah, all right, let's take our final break and we come back. We'll take some more periscope questions. We'll recap some stuff from Jerry, maybe some Zeke talk, and I want to get a little progress report on Dak Prescott too before we get out of here. Next on Talking Cowboys. If you're like me and you love I mean, if you have a thing, then cutting the word is scary. But then I found out I could switch to DirecTV Now

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Applying back to the Talking Cowboys. Hey you guys, if you want to use what the pros you and I'm sure you do. Jack Black is the official Men's Care Skinscare, Skincare, Men'scare'scare brand of the Dallas Cowboys. Get your Jack Black Playmaker for JB faves plus a full size lip bomb for just ten bucks with free shippy at get Jack Black dot com. Use that code, Cowboys. Thank you very much, Mickey. Welcome back to Talking Cowboys. We've got about twenty minutes

in the show on a Monday. Cowboys off today, they'll get back to work on Tuesday with an afternoon practice. As an afternoon practice on Tuesday. Yes, yes, it is alrighty, I think not till I think Thursday. He's the flip practice morning practice to San Francisco greet. How much time is uh consume by practice watching and press conference and after press conference and interviews after practices. It's a lot. I added up its five hours. But the weather's good. Yeah,

we'll take it. Don't don't get that man started on the weather. Any uh, God, it's great out here. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. And and Jerry was out there holding court for a while after practice. He was just quickly anything that jumped out as far as contracts, Zeke update on that, his thoughts on how those things. I didn't hear him talk about that. So after I finished with him, Uh, we were unhooking and I went back and he was still talking, so I kind of missed. So you asked

Stephen Jones, said, any update on Zeke? And he says, they don't want to talk to me, So that kind of tells you all you need to know what's going on with Zeke. But I didn't know what Jerry had to say if he said anymore, because I don't know what else he could have said. After when he got cornered one Saturday. He doesn't seem concerned about it, yeah, Zeke, or any of it. I think the feeling is publicly they're saying that you know, this stuff will eventually get done.

You know. The thing that I one of the things that stuck out to me what he said after that afternoon practice. He was asked about are you mad at Zeke because you've had his back and now he seems to be dissing you. And Jerry said, you know, he goes, and I've I've learned this. He goes, don't matter what kind of relation and I'm paraphrasing what kind of relationship you have with this player? He said, at some point, you know you're gonna have a divergence, meaning you're gonna

go opposite ways. Your interests diverge. Yeah, your interest diverge, and he goes, and what you have to do is you sit down afterwards, you reconcile. And he said, I've learned patience because He didn't have patience. I'll guarantee you that at the beginning, especially that first year when he was trying to get Emmett Smith and Alexander Wright signed and they both missed the entire training camp, his first training camp and those two guys weren't signed. He was mad,

and he was mad at those agents. Oh he would just you know, spitting mad atam to the point where they were hoping that they didn't have to deal with those agents every again. Right. So, yeah, and he didn't have patience belore at all. But I think he has learned that, you know, because you know it's happened. It happened again with Emmett you know, truth be known, it happened at the end of Troy Aikman's career when they were going to release him, and Troy wanted to be

released right away. They weren't going to give him that seven million dollars roster bonus heading into two thousand and one. Uh, And what Jerry wanted to do was not release him till after June one so they could spread all that

remaining pro rated uh signing bonus. And he wanted to get released right away because he thought he had an opportunity to go to San Diego, where Norv was the offensive coordinator, and they ended up in the meantime before he eventually got released, they Fluteie, they hired, they signed Doug Fluty to be their backup quarterback, and he ended up, I think, starting spiking and and he was mad at Troy, and Troy was mad at him, and then eventually the

business part dissipates and it's like you're my best friend. Absolutely, So, Yeah, he's kind of learned that he's had the opportunities to go through those types of thing. Uh. And I think he's he seems much calmer about this, Let's put it that way. He's pissed. You're right, Stephen, Stephen is Jerry, yes, twenty five years Yes, yeah, you learn, you know, I mean you learn how things. The older you get, you do. You have more patience because you're not guaranteed tomorrow, you know,

so you just you have more patience with things. But Stephen has become Jerry of the And I think with Steve, I wouldn't want to negotiate with Stephen because I think Stephen would reach across the table and grab your throat. I think he's more stubborn. Oh he is. Jerry will finally kind of get Jerry will give you the horse trailer and a partial of land and hey, let's go have a Johnny Walker blue. Stephen will step on your throat if he can. And I mean that in a

respectful way. But I think I think that that. I think that this team that's good. They need a general manager that's going to draw the line. And it's not just stuff us. I've heard that from other people out there in the business world that have had to deal with Stephen and they go, oh no, and you don't want to with him. I've seen Stephen Jones do I mean Stephen Joe as all walk up to somebody and say, hey, you're gonna have to deal with me. Now you're dealing

with me, so just get ready for that. And I and I was like, okay, well here we go. But ok here we go, hey real quick if I could, I've got some people lining up, And again, appreciate everybody out there at Periscope. You make our life easier when we kind of need to do some questions and stuff. Uh. Raphael wants to know are they comfortable with Maher or will they go after someone else we saw him miss a thirty two yard field gold. I wrote about it

in Scout's Eye today as my last point. The operation was completely successful. The snap was good, a slight spin with Chris Jones, and a bad miss to the left pull left that would have that would have lost the game for these guys yesterday on a thirty two yard miss. See,

And that's that's the concern. You know, the Saturday practice he was six of six for the Yes he was, Yes, he was all the other times we've seen previously that it's five of six, and so I started adding up like four or five of sixes, right, and so it ends up being like, uh, twenty of twenty four? Is that? What is my math? Five? That five of six? So four times for that's twenty of twenty. Yeah, it's journalism anyway, it comes to eighty percent. And that's what he was

last year. He was about eighty three last year, and so it's like, wow, do you want better than that? Dan Bailey spoil us you know all those previous years. Uh. And then when he when they went back on Saturday and he kicked six and he made all six. They didn't mess around with going fifty or fifty two every The majority of the kicks were from forty two to forty eight because that's where he struggled. That's that's the interesting thing about him. When he kicked from fifty plus

last year, he was great about it. What you don't want, it's those money don't have, is missing thirty yard kicks? Yes, and so, But to answer to that question, I mean, I'm not sure where you go. Well, there's always well, there's always a group, but there's that have kicked in the league. This red Fern, by the way, is a is a punter. I mean he's punted in the league before. He's kind of a fifty fifty and he's handling. He's handling both duties in camp. I mean, I think that's

a little different than last year. Brett Maher was a kicker who was challenging, challenging Pan Bailey without us even realized. Yeah, so, um, but these are the days Michel and you guys, remember this is the days you miss Steve Hoffman. Yes, where Steve Hoffman could go to home depot or lows and and then he get ten guys out of there with aprons on those orange aprons and one of them would end up being an All Pro kicker, or he could

fix it. He always was great. I mean, six years of working here in the Sky department never had to evaluate one kicker because Hoffman always took care of it. And that was an additional staff member, right like every team had. He's a special team coach. Now he's still a special teams coach. But yeah, it's it's crazy to think of how great he was at going out and evaluating the Billy Cundiffs and the and the and the Chris Bono's and those guys of the world. He'd go

out there and find guys. It was amazing how we do that. But he also could help them with their technique. He was a kicking coach. Yeah, you know, and I agree with you. You know, Jerry would and he would tell those guys, oh no, you become a free agent. You gotta go. And then Darry would say, okay, go find me another one, right would or if he had somebody that was struggling, he could help fix it. And

he was a punter. He wasn't a place kicker. But now, yeah, it's like, why does this happen on a thirty two yard kick that's an extra point? Yeah, that's that's just not good. That's just like a Hey again, I hate to be hypothetical, guy, but from what you've seen from the secondary, this is Micky. You're gonna hate the question, but I'll answer. I ask it anyway because we want

to try and do this. If the secondary continues to play well what we've seen in the preseason or in this in the camps, do you see a possibility of them using Byron Jones as a trade piece? No, uh no, I don't see that. Okay, I don't see that. I think they they're gonna look at it like this is just another this is a cherry on top. Okay, you know,

just keep adding guys. Keep Yeah, you'd keep the position strong and all that best player in your secondary last year and you're trying to go win a Super Bowl. I just I wouldn't. I'm not going to subtract talent right now if I can. You know, now, that's what I'm saying. If you have for draft picks, I mean, are you trying to Yeah? Exactly. But but but the the caveat to this was if the secondary continues to

play well well. I said it on the TV show yesterday on special that that that's the most impressive part about this team for me right now is the way the secondary just flying around right Jordan Lewis, Anthony Brown, Cheeto, Xavier. I think, and again I don't know if this is a guy or gal asking this question, but maybe they're thinking big picture that you can't sign Byron Jones. I shouldn't say he can't. I shouldn't say can't, but he would be seems like he is the odd man out

right now? Would you try and get something for him? Trade wall the stocks high if if if everyone in the secondary coming off a hip surgery, the stock is probably not as high as people think. That's fine, that's right, that's no. I'm I can give me who he didn't like this question, Bryan, give me give me one injury. No, he's not. But I understand. I understand the premise of the question because you're thinking, okay, if we can't, Yeah,

everybody wants Byron Jones playing right corner. But if you're you're getting production from your group and you know that you're not going to sign Byron Jones, who's the right corner like Anthy Brown or they've been putting Jordan Lewis they've kind of want to go down that route. Sometimes you got to live in the now. I tell you what, though anthy Anthy Brown did started, he got replaced. You're not wrong about that. And then they've been switching almost

every day on who's outside and who goes inside. And they'll tell you it's for versatility purposes. But again, sometimes you gotta live in the now, not the future. And the future means a draft choice, and the draft choice is no sure deal. I agree. I'm trying to win the Super Bowl this year. I want people are people are lining up with you right now, Mickey, They're they're lining up with you right and they always should line up. By the way, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not cocky, all right.

By the way, Donovan Lumbus showing up to another young corner of showing up, just the ball starting to find him, even if it's a tip. I thought he was a clapper. The guy makes play. He does make play. He does make play. And you know what, good for him because he's the hardest worker we know. I keep the star. They told everybody else, hey, you could go home, you could go home for five weeks. Poor Donovan lumba was showing up late and looking around like he was having

lunch with us. That's what I was, tortillas soup at the Star. He was just saying that if he doesn't have anybody out there to practice with, he just practices his back pedal. That's all he does. And maybe it's paying off. Absolutely, And as Jason Garrett said, he's got length. His arms are long, and so he's not afraid prototype guy, just go play. All right, I'm gonna go for some soup too. Here in a minute, we got to get out of here. Yeah, it's almost lunch time on Dallas time. Anyway,

Thanks for everybody for join us. We didn't get we didn't really talk DAK press tomorrow. Let's do that tomorrow. Let's do a progress report on DAK and some other guys, a little stock Quati maybe, Yeah, let's let's do that. Thanks to Caden and Will for producing. Thanks to Mick and Brian. We'll see you guys on Tuesday on Talking Cowboys, Take Care. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.