Talkin' Cowboys: Prioritizing Draft Needs

me filling in for Tay. Hi. Hi, that was Mark Kelsey than Taylor. That's fine. We love call too. There you go. KNK Garrison producing next door with that wonderful drop. Brian brought us and Mickey Spagnola in as always, what's up, guys, Hey, you guys ready, you guys ready for this countdown to be over? It's very much so. Yes, Brian, you've looked at eighteen hundred players roughly times yeah, times six, yeah, three hundred, three hundred total and he's only been talking

about this for four months? What did you start with it? Thanksgiving? When we I usually do it when there was still some question about whether this team was and still in the playoff hunt, and I used, but I usually started December fifth. And that's kind of the way that, uh, why do you do that, Brian? Is it kind of an homage? It's that I if I don't if I don't do it, then I won't get into the three

hundred players done that kind I had start. You didn't wait till they lost the Seattle No, I've I have the last one, the one that it really all started when way back when ROMA was laying on the field against Carolina, That's what I was getting at. Yeah, and I was Thanksgiving Day and I was sitting in the press box and I texted Jeff, Jeff Cavanaugh, Kevin Turner. I said, draft preps starts Tuesday. Be ready, and they both takes that, gack, we're on it. And so that's

when that's it's traditionally December fifth. So that's kind of my new bracing himself. He's bracing himself for the thought of no playoffs, you know, because you didn't start. You didn't start in December in sixteen. You know, I did not you knew you had playoffs to worry about sixteen. I did I did, but yeah, it's a nice way to kind of it's like your head and your bets like, well, it might as well get started just in case we don't.

There's two there's two or three weeks where you don't, you know, you don't do anything, we don't get the watch tape, I'll go out and have to go do things and stuff. And so if I don't, I've learned if I don't put it by then, I mean I looked at my last three three hundredth player yesterday. That was it, and and here I am, like, what two three days before the draft, So that's always been my number to try and get to three hundred. Is that your mister irrelevant guy? Or is that just it's not

necessarily by talent. Yeah, yeah he was. Uh it was. It was he was not mister irrelevant, but he was a seventh round guy. Yeah, it was. It was just to know a guy. That's the great thing about our Draft show and our Draft Cabbage, I think everybody involved is that when you listen to us, it's it's we can talk about all the picks. You know, Dame Burglar will give you a scouting report about mister irrelevant and last year we were able to give it, I think,

or thus you're two years ago? Was it Kelly from Old Miss Yeah, we all kind of had a Chad Kelly all had an idea. So, yeah, draft courbage is worth kind of hanging out with us because we do take it pretty serious. A good thing. You weren't there in the seventies when they went seventeen rounds and probably figure out I got a real quick story if you don't mind it. Yeah, when I was at the Green Bay my first draft in ninety two was twelve rounds.

Twelve rounds, so that was the only the only time I ever had to go through a twelve round draft. But there was a gentleman that was that worked with Vince Lombardi named Dave Hanner, Dave hog Hanner, it was his name, And Dave was a scout with us in Green Bay and he was a coach on Lombardi staff in the sixties. And this is when they had the seventeen round draft and they had to catch the train to go play. This is when the draft was during the season. They would do it at either end of

November or sometime in December. So yeah, so Hoggy had to go catch the train. The team was going to play the West Coast Swing with the Rams and the forty nine ers, so he had to get the train to get out there. Well, they got into like the seventeenth round. He left three names for the administrative assistant one of the ladies, and he says, if any one of these guys is still there picking so in here in the seventeenth round, an administrative assistant for the Green

Bay Packers. She made the pick, you know, and he had to go catch the train. He goes, I don't have time to work on this and where I gotta go. God, that sounds like a fantasy draft where you like kind of set you out at guys. Yeah, I got who I want. Just here's my auto list for the rest of this. I gotta go to a birthday party. Say, a twelve round draft is it's exhausting. It really is. And we Kath think we did in two days. That's

too much. It was it was, you know, it was incredible, but it great experience, a lot of fun, really enjoyed happy. The drafts here though, sound like we got a lot of good things going on with it. Sounded so that that sounds like when that's how Larry Brown got drafted. It was twelfth round and Jimmy got tired and he walked out and he basically said, just grab somebody close. Yeah, so they don't have to pay money to pay him to fly in. And it's like, oh, they got a

cornerback at TCU, let's bring him in. Wow, weren't that okay in a Super Bowl? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, So yeah, drafts are strange. Lady strange, lady. Put it on a T shirt here. We had him outside of at and T Stadium. Wish we had Drew Pearson last night up at the Cowboy Club and he was explaining to the folks how he sat there for two days at four hundred and forty some picks, sure, and he didn't get taken, and he said, talk about being humbled. And then immediately

when the draft was over, the phone rang. It was the Cowboys, the Packers, and the Steelers. Yeah, so he said, well, I didn't feel so bad. At least three good teams liked me one time, and we drafted a kid named Derek Mays in Green Bay. Just before call waiting. I talked to him on the phone for two hours to keep other teams from calling in to pick him. I can't believe he didn't hang up on you. Yeah, talk to him. What do you talk him to him? I don't talk to him. Derek mays with school Notre Dame.

So there's plenty of things to remember that guy. Yeah, Derek made second round pick for the Packers, and I talked. I kept him on the phone for two hours, philibuster, I did. That's azing. And so ron Wolf walked in and goes, tell him he's a tell him he's a green Bay Packer and I'm like, Derek, long journey over, congratulationshire packer. He goes, that's great, man, I appreciate. So we had this friendship when he came to Green Bay. But yeah, he played a he was a good player

out of Notre Dame. But yeah, before call waiting, we drafted a kid one time two that the fourth cell phones really that he was in the movies. Third round, we just took him. We you know where it's it's like, okay, Antonio Freeman draft him in the third round, like you couldn't get hold of him, could't get ahold him as he was gone. He did, he wasn't around his phone. Wow. So we just said, well, let's take him anyway, and

we drafted him. But he didn't know he got drafted until he got home and got a message that we'd picked him in the third round. What a weird, What a weird, thought my cell phone. How times have changed? Yeah about that in the draft magazine talked to Gil Brand about how it's evolved just just a little bit, just a b from a little conference room and all. Yeah.

And they used to, you know, and it wasn't that long ago, probably went through the nineties where when it free agency began after the draft, you would send your scouts to certain spots and sit on this guy and make sure the minute the drafts over, you go knock on the door. We did that, and we sent a coach, We sent a defensive line coach to all the way from Green Bay to Los Angeles. Bruce Walker was and we a matter of fact, our coach was knocked on the door after draft to try and sign him. And

he says, I'm gonna go to the Jets. And he's like, okay. And so when he called back, we're like, Larry, did you get the guy? And he goes, no, he went to the Jets. We're all like Larry. You were the only person there. How did you lose him? You had to face the yeah you had. He goes, no, the kid want to go the Jets And I'm like, no, you were sent to go recruit this kid. Have you ever recruited a kid? He's like, he want to go the Jets. That's the last time we ever sent a

coach out to do that, the very last. That's how the Cowboys got Drew. They had Bob Griffin their scout in Tulsa. Bob Griffin, good scout, And as soon as the draft was over, he was the first one to call, and he was in town at the hotel and said, Hey, come on over, Hey, great recruit. About the story about Sean Payton and Tony Romo. He talked about somebody talked to a player. For two hours. He constantly was telling Tony Romo what was going on. A lot of really

good recruiting on his part to get that done. I spoke to Sean at the combine for a Deep Blue were doing on Bill Parcellas and the O three season, and basically got to the point where he said, Bill, you gotta get on the phone yeah with him to seal the deal. Yeah, because it I'm not I'm not cutting it or I'm not you know. He was trying, man, Yeah, he was trying, you know, and he wound up taking I think ten grand lesson signing bonus just too because

he saw opportunity. Hey, one of the great closers on the phone is Jerry. You get Jerry will get the mom, the dad, the great he will. He will get everybody on the phone and buy the end of it. You're giving him money, you know, I mean they're there, but he is one of the You put Jerry Jones on the phone to get a kid to come here. It is it is, it is money. Just move the tag from over here to your board because he is. He's one of the best. When it comes to clothing. Just

don't go in his office unless you're buying. Yeah, Like, if you don't want to, don't go in because I will buy whatever he's selling. It used to be so amazed how he ran a draft. You know, you could get on him about the picks and stuff like that, but he would get people. He could convince general managers to tell them who he was gonna they were gonna take. And usually when you call it general manager will say what he here, We're gonna go offense here, okay, thanks,

click the phone. Hey, they're going offense. Jerry is getting general managers. Do tell them who he's they're gonna take, and then that way. Now we're like, hey, man, we could trade down they're not taking our guy. We could trade down here. You know, he's one of the best when it came to work in a phone. The greatness got to be an art to that. Oh, it says he knows how to do a deal. Yeah, he knows how he can convince you that you need to be a part of this. That's what he does. Go look

at those offices across the word. Sure, yeah, they're full. They're full. They're full. You don't need to rent this space. Well, we'll see what Jerry and the Cowboys get done Thursday through Saturday. And you guys have a draft show tonight. Yeah, yeah, we worry about a day. Come on out to Henry's in Plano on Legacy from five to seven. We'll be there. We'll be talking about Miller Light, we'll be talking about the draft, throwing back some bruise, talking football. Yeah, it's

gonna be dope lovely, all right, Listen, to this somewhere else. Yes, you can. Yeah, it's it's all on all our regular stuff at Dallas Cowboys dot com. Absolute. Why wouldn't you want to come to the bar man? You can have a right down on the street. I like Henry's it's good playing bar. It's gonna be in the bar area or the little room in the back. Don't know the end. We will figure that out and we get there. But yeah, like they've said, five to seven, come on by two

hours of Draft Talk yet talk. Yeah, all right, we'll w y'all do a great job of diving into prospects, and we can do that a little bit today. But what I wanted to do for the last show before the draft here on Talk Cowboys is just kind of go down the list of needs for the Cowboys, where they stand, what they've done in the offseason, position by position. We can just run through it and see kind of where they are. We know some of the big needs. What are maybe some other ones that they could have

at some point in rounds one through seven. I'm just gonna go down the list, fellas, how about this? Cool? Go? Let's start with quarterback? Sure, what do you think where do they address it, if at all, Where do you think they stand behind dak right now? Saturday afternoon un or Saturday evening with a fifth to seventh round pick or a priority free agent signed after the draft? Maybe two? Maybe? Well yeah, I mean, yeah, they'll take two quarterbacks to camp,

but two more right when they'll take four to camp. Yes, they'll take two new ones to camp. Yeah, sorry, um, but one of them? I think I mean the joke. I don't think it's that much of a joke. Like, I'm not gonna be surprised if Matt Lanahan's on this team by the time it's all said and done. He's a quarterback out of Idaho. He's related to one of the decision makers here. I had his breakfast with his dad this morning. Do you ask him about it? I

asked him it said he's got He says that. He says there's ten teams that are interested in him right now. He says he's really comfortable about the free agent route. If he gets picked, great, he'd love to go, But he says a free agency he gets a crack. He says he'd like to You know, that way, a free agency you can kind of choose where you want to go. You can kind of look at a roster and say, hey, I got a chance to be a third there, or I could be a practice squad guy. So he's gonna

he's excited. But yeah, I talked to Scott about it this morning and he's looking forward to it again. Ten teams. Interesting, But how much Tony Romo put that into his decision to come here when he looked at the quarterbacks and said, huh, yeah, just give me a chance. I did. I look up? Yeah, in Denver were the two teams that were involved. Yeah, Shanahan being a Western Illinois selling point that story. Eastern Illinois. It was Parcels and those guys, the Cowboys. Brass told him, look,

the competition is settled in Denver. It's not settled here, right, And that's ultimately what drove him. Yeah, worked out pretty good. Okay, So for a guy that late Lalta, yeah, he's probably more probably maybe a day two guy, Mickey, Oh, you're not gonna make it to throw. No, No, you're you're, you're you're kind of in that quarterback quarterback sucks to figure out because these guys always it does these guys always get drafted. I mean we're we're talking about maybe

Josh Allen going number one overall in the draft. That's ludicrous, This shouldn't happen. But quarterbacks a special type of deal. That's I mean. Mason Rudolph, well, you got a fourth round grade on him. Yeah, fifth round grade. Actually, excuse be a fourth round grade. You're right, he could. He could go in the first round or or very early on Day two. Loletta could be a Day two guy.

Mike White, Mike White's another West to Kentucky. Yeah, So like that's I feel like they I bet they want to spend a draft pick on a quarterback, but I wonder if anybody they like will still be there when they're ready to draft one, you know, because they have six seven exact I mean, yeah, they've got three six round picks. And like you're talking about Mickey though, there's kids like the fawk kid at Washington State would be a guy Ben Kirk from Virginia, Virginia Lytton, you know,

and Marshall Marshall and then Woodside from Toledo. Those are the kind of the names you're you're talking about right now. Loletta would be a guy that once the five go he's, like Dave said, he's in the mix with White and Rudolph and those guys had an excellent Senior Bowl. Correct, Absolutely, Yeah, I just want I mean those a ball really well. Like I said, I feel like I'd be surprised if they want a draft one before like the fifth round.

Yeah yeah, but as a guy that they like still gonna be there by the time those rounds roll around, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if they just signed a priority free agent either that they may have a late round grade, only that might still be We did a mock draft just send the draft show and didn't pick a quarterback. Yeah no, we just kind of kind of went by position by position but didn't grab a quarterback. But in a lot of our mock drafts we've done for Dallas Cowboys dot Com, we seem to

pick a quarterback at some point in time. As Duch told us at the combine, Sorry, Dave, there's some interest in developing another young guy. But dak over they didn't sign a vet, you know, and they've got Cooper Rush, so that kind of makes sense to potentially draft a guy late. But I don't I don't view it as a big enough need that they would force it, you know what I mean. And and for for all the people listening that you know, like, well you don't you're

not settled on Dak. You gotta blah blah blah. Okay, even if that's how you feel. If if, if Dak is a problem to the point where you got to draft a quarterback, do that next year with a much better pick. You know that that's I mean, that's a waste of a pick this year in my opinion. All Right, we rolled down the list running back. We know they're set with Zeke, They like Rod Smith. Beyond that, okay, Alfred Morris is a free agent, has not been res hind or signed anywhere else he won't be signed. So

all you got is Williams. Yeah, Tray running back, Trey Williams. So you need one, yeah, And you need the I think we've talked about it before, the little toy running back, the Lance Dunbarer replacement. Can I convince you to take it? Just a legitimate running back. That's what I would rather do, to be perfect. If you know, what's a situation. And we all hope that things work out with Zeke, But and and We've seen some positive things from Rod Smith,

but not as an every down type player. If something were to happen, would you want somebody that is legitimately carried the ball a bunch more so than the toy. Yeah. I gotta do that though, to get a quality one, fourth round, fourth round, fifth round. Still, this is a deep class. Yeah. Yeah, the kid the kid they brought in Edo Smith as a smaller guy. But then you're talking about names. If you want to go like at eighty one that you know that would be like Hines

would be that. Yeah, yeah, you know, we've talked about Walton Kelly. Those are two guys. Walton from Miami, Kelly from Tennessee and Hinds kind of a smaller He's he's he's more. I think you can hand him the ball down. Yeah, you can hand him the ball because that's a guy I kind of like. I'll tell you the guy you should really talk about is the Wadley kid from Iowa. That's who I would look like him. I like him a lot. While about the LSU guy for a real

running back, Darryl Hell yeah, L sign me up. I don't think that. I don't know that they would do it. But I love that guy. I think he's a little bit more of a later guy yeah than that, but he's a kind of a oh he's sure, he's total running, he's a he's a hoss about big guy. Yeah, I just I mean, Zeke's already got a strike on his record. That's something worth keeping an eye on. As much as I like Rod Smith, he's just got one year left on his deal. So you know, I absolutely think they

should draft a running back. Probably again, not till day Three's your answer. Okay, it's a need, but not a need that should be keeping anybody up at night. A day two to day three need. Probably more of a day profferably day three, day three unless you just love Nihiem Hines if you just absolutely got to have them. Yeah, Well, I think it's a good spot to break and come back with wide receiver, oh boy, and discuss that position further and see what the Cowboys might do, maybe as

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is talking cowblories, Froze. Did you know that in football the quickest plays that I don't want to read this just Tommy John is underwear. I can't recommend it enough. Really, all their products are great. You know that, Brian. We talk about it all the time. It's very comfortable. Yeah, as wonder why you're even going to start the read just kind off the top of your head. Aways just talk about how great Tommy John you're I know, I

just you get shamed into that one. I just knew shit like this isn't my normal environment, Like y'all have a specific way you want to do things. But Rob's really good at the read just kind. I don't do the reads. I just want you to know that I can endorse. I can't. I can't recommend it highly enough. It's so comfortable, Uh, Tommy John dot Com Forward Slash Cowboys. I'll come up with something more creative next. If you were an actor, you're one of those guys that likes

to add lib a little bit. Yeah, we'll do a lot. Yeah, improv, improv. You know he didn't mention the pouch. The pouch is important to quick drop out moisture wicking fabric. That's right. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, it's great for snow skiing too, right like you right, yeah, there you go. Never done that, but you have yeah, oh neverbody, Oh no, okay, On that note, welcome back to the s WBC Morning studio and Talk Cowboys. We are rolling through position by position

needs for your Dallas Cowboys as the draft years. We covered quarterback, running back, and wide receivers next, and that's kind of a need for this team. Is it? Is? That? Is that what they're saying, saying? You got an audience, Okay, that's what they're saying these days. Yeah, hello, welcome so wide receiver huh yeah, post does Bryant? Okay, go get me one first or second round or bust? Nah? First, second, third, yeah, third round or bust. Brian. I'll tell you what. We

did a mock draft yesterday. They got actually a guy. They visited James Washington all the way down round yeah, third round eight, third round yeah. And I mean we felt pretty true about the mock draft the way it rolled, but we we had a we had a discussion to make and this kind of gets into something else, if you want to get into a little further is that Indianapolis.

We ran into this problem yesterday. We were trying to determine after taking vander esh at nineteen, would you try and go back up for a wide receiver at thirty seven with the Colts, and we determined it would be a little bit of an overpay yep, to have to give your eighty one to go do it, but that's what it's probably going to take. Well, we've talked about how there's a and y'all have plenty on the Draft show.

There's a group of receivers that, all right, maybe you wouldn't take at nineteen, but they're probably not gonna last to fifty. Yeah. Well wait, yeah, we ended up now again they appear to like Courtland Sutton from SMU quite a bit. So Courtland Sutton we were thinking about it. We said, no, we're gonna sit and just wait for our pick at fifty. Well what happened then is the Colts took him at thirty seven. So now are you kicking yourself for not trying to make the deal? Is that?

Is that going to be the trade up in this in this draft? But I gotta give up a third to get there. You gotta go. You're gonna lose. Probably you're gonna lose an opportunity to draft a safety at safety at eighty one or a guard that's your guard spot. Third round. That's where I come down on this, which I mean, I would like for this team to draft a wide receiver. I don't think it's a but you don't want You don't want Courtland Sutton. It's your problem.

I don't. No, I don't want Courtland Sutton if I have to give up pick eighty one to get him, absolutely not. Okay, Well, then the way it rolled, we just let it go. We took Anthony Miller, the wide receiver from Memphis, which is a very good play in the second in the second round. Okay, So here's my question. So how many wide receivers do you think will go

in the first What made one to three? One to three? Yeah, So the gap difference between those one to three to what you would get in the second or third round. My my, I had no problem taking Anthony Miller at fifty because he's my first player in the second round, my top receiver in the second round. I have Sutton behind him, Okay, and then Gallop in Washington. Now, all

those guys win the second round. But we kind of were thinking the way the draft fell, we thought there was going to be a run on receivers at the top of the board. There really wasn't. It was a run on corners. Yeah, is what happened. That'd be a good thing. So so yeah, but we had a chop chance to pick Miller. They might not like Miller, they might not We like Miller, they like Washington. No, hecames

a guy that thirty visited. Can we talk about this in a little bit more ambiguous terms, Just pull pull back from the names from the guys on the cover of this magazine real quick. How do you feel about wide receiver right now? Yeah? I could go play a game with the guys you have. I've said this on the show. Alan Hearns has to be the guy they signed him to play. In my opinion, Dez Bryant's position pending what happens in the draft. You signed him thinking

he could be a guy that starts for you. Yeah, So, Mick, can this team play and win games with what they have or do they have to have a guy? I think they would be okay, but I think they need a guy. All right, Draft expert, how many of these guys do you think can make a real instant impact? I think if you draft more, I think I think the top two can make an impact. I think Ridley and More can make an impact. I don't know if Sudden necessarily can. I don't feel confident feel confident about

Miller though. I don't feel I'll get I'll even give you Miller, I'll give you Anthony Miller. I don't feel confidence at any buddy else after those three is ready to just step in and take Alan Huns or Terrence Williams job. But we're what we've determined on this show. While last week was that if you just get Alan Hurns to play at Dez Bryant's last year's numbers, would you feel good about that? Absolutely? Okay, But that's the sorry go ahead. I feel like though that to me,

I know where you're going here. Receiver I don't think it's the absolute. I think linebacker is more of a problem myself. The point I'm trying to make is that it seems unlikely unless you pick somebody at nineteen, basically Calvin Ridley or DJ Moore, Right, you're not going to get a guy that's gonna make this splash impact. I don't trust that Courtland Sutton and James Washington are ready to step in and catch more than twenty or thirty

passes this well, you know what about eventually? Sure, eventually, but then and that that goes back to my whole point, which is that receiver. If you're drafting a receiver in twenty eighteen, you're doing it for twenty nineteen and beyond. Now one of your starting receivers did have offseason surgery and now yeah, it's only a fifth Meta Tarsl. Yeah, I mean I think by training camp they feel like he'll be fine. For sure, he's probably gonna miss him

off season work, Terrence Williams. But it is something to consider. Okay, So these wide receivers compared to previous top wide receivers, would they if the need wasn't there for a wide receiver, would they be that high in the first round, sort of like the quarterbacks are currently up there right now. Yeah, like they're worthy first round grades. They are absolutely okay, both both Ridley and and more More, they're clearly they're clearly not on the level of past years though becoming

we've seen it, we've seen those guys. Also, like you said, struggle the first year, said okay, so let's compare a Marie Cooper, Well, he was the one guy Cooper's come in. If you gave me a choice between Ridley and Cooper, I'm taking Cooper, Yeah, Ridley or a Cooper and more I'm taking I've got more over Ridley for me. He's saying more, No, I meant compared to Cooper. Yeah, Cooper.

Cooper to me is better than any one of these receivers that are in the first So are these receivers sort of like the quarterbacks probably in this draft, if it wasn't a quarterback from a talent standpoint, they wouldn't be five of them in the first ten picks. I hear what you're saying. See when you talk about Cooper and those guys, those were guys were like legitimate top ten picks, you know, top twelve picks right legitimate. I don't see. I don't see if you look at my

top thirty. If you look at my top thirty, I don't have. I don't like to say I have. I look at it in my first receivers at ten, that's it more and then Calvin Ridley's at twelve. So I think I would have Cooper and those guys much higher than I would have these. I think this is a deep receiver class, but the top of the class is weaker than in previous years. Yeah, that was my end point. That's so second round, third round. I'm not I'm not trying to give up. And you know, Courtland Sutton could

become a stud in the same way Des did. I'm not saying that's impossible, but I don't like the idea of giving up two of my best picks to get a guy. The learning curve for him is a lot, a lot that's steeper. So for if I tell you you can trade you got a trade up from fifty and give up eighty one to do it to get Sutton, or you can just hope that James Washington's there for you at eighty one. That seems like a no brainer

to me. Just wait for the guy. Yeah, because I we go back to I feel like they've tried to cover themselves at that position actually where you don't have to give up a bunch of resources. There's no there's no question you have two years. You have two years, right, and Burns signed a two year draft. You could draft one of these guys at eighty one and then next year you take your shot and hope somebody's there for

you in the first rounds you like better. We got to Washington, got all the way down to Pittsburgh at nineties something. I mean if then that's a guy they brought in on a thirty visit, so I mean, that's a guy obviously they like it's it's something I think they can wait. They need to try to address it by the end of Friday. But I just don't think it's true that they just have to have one on

Thursday night. I'm with you on that, all right, tight end, which we got some news last Friday that they're one short at tight end, at least behind Jason Witton. James Hannah, placed on the reserve retired list, had some knee problems a couple of years ago, missed all of that season, he's hanging it up. So how big of a need does it become? Was it already a need something you have to address at some point looking for a successor to Jason Witton down the line? I thought it was

a need even before Hannah retired. He was on his last year. Swain's on his last year. Is Whitton on his last year? I don't know sure, but you feel good about Rico Gathers and Blake Jarwin. We don't know they like Blake. Yeah, that was one of the man because I start, I brought up the same question you did about what about a tight end? And the guy told him he don't sleep on Blake Jarwin. I mean, and again that's them, that's them. I mean, he's the

one guy that they did not want to lose. You know, they really didn't have a roster spot for him, and they created one because they didn't want to lose him. So he Philly wanted him off there, off the practice squad. Right yeah, right, I'm just gonna I'm gonna throw a big whatever at this. No, I really am. If you want to draft the guy on Saturday because you need the depth, that's fine, or sign another priority free agent. Which is what Blake Jarwin was. Go for it. You're

not interested in seeing round tight end? Hired of watching the promising tight ends wither away on the vine behind Jason Witten. And that's not a shot at Jason Witten. He he deserves, as far as I'm concerned, he deserves to play until he doesn't want to play anymore. But and but I'm just not going to worry about that position until he's not here, right, what's the point he doesn't come off the field, So no, he does. Yeah, I think he did play like ninety seven seven point

three percent of the snaps. Whatever. No, I'm not spending a premium pick on that go away. You're saying, draft a guy when it's time. Yeah, when it's absolutely time. Yes, she's like I and Thomas from Indiana. Sure. Third round No too high, too high for a tight end or for that guy for a tight end period. I'm starting on Saturday. I'm starting on Saturday. I mean, and I don't nobody, y'all don't have to agree with me. That's guard round, Mickey, that's a round. Third round Yeah, yeah, uh,

top one hundred picks are supposed to start. We say that all the time we say it. It's like one of my it's one of my core beliefs. In the draft, top one hundred picks should push to start, and that guy's not going to push to start. So no, all right, So are there there's no you guys don't think there's any tight end that's like this, like a real one, like a real one. Yeah, not just like a receiving Will Disley. Yeah, you could get him on Saturday, right,

sure you all right? Then? Sure go for it. Well, Disley is a tight end from University of Washington. He was a converted defensive end. He's got a big, slow white guy who blocks. He does his job. No, I need somebody to get downfield. Okay, there's there's plenty of other guys you can, you can hit them, but I gotta go too high to get him. Well, if you want a legitimate one, if you want you don't want

to cut I like how. I like how Ian Thomas has done a lot of different things at India and y Flex what they asked their tight ends to do. And this system is a lot, you know, and so he's got some experience that way. But it might be I'm with Dave, that's pretty early to draft it tight? Would you take a tight end to eighty one or a safety free safety free safety safety tight end? Ah? What? What?

Who's starting at safety for this team right now? Because I sure as he'll know who's starting at tight end. Mickey's gonna trade his fifty to get one. That's fine. If you want to do that, that's fine, we can talk about that. But right now, and hey, I say that, I'm again I'm not taking outs at Xavier Woods and Cavon Frasier either. If they step up and prove that they're capable of doing the job in training camp, that's great.

But uh, your two options at free safety on this team right now have four combined starts between them, and most of those were Xavier Woods in the slot. And how many how many snaps did his Xavier Woods play last year? Three hundred and something? I think fifty one? Yeah, don't a lot of that, I know, I understand. But they look at him as a guy that's going to

at least compete for it. That's cool. He's not proven at all, Okay, and then Jason went pretty When Byron Jones fails at corner, he's gonna go back to free safety. Right there, Jesus. I mean, you know alone, what do you what do you think he's going to be a starter. I'll tell you what. When I wrote the story yesterday that they picked up his fifth year option, I called him a defensive back because I don't Yeah, he could go back to the savior. Who knows, you know. That's

what's interesting he is he is? He a six million dollar non starter? That's whatever. No, No, I'm just asking. I really, I don't know, honestly. I mean, I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give him a shot because his size and his athleticism dictates that he could maybe be pretty good at it. And if you watch him play corner he did it on five days, notice, two thirds of the way through his rookie season. I mean, come on, that's two totally different things. No, I don't I feel

bad for the cow many days. Notice that Jordan Lewis ever or should be Owoozia, Jordan Lewis is in Denver, Okay, Well, and they lost forty two to seven. Yeah that day, That's what I'm saying. So you gotta give him a shot. He's got a new position coach, so if if if he's a cornerback. Do you do you qualify it as he's the guy that goes in the slot or he's the guy that takes the tight end. Is that a cornerback? I think that he's starting See that's what That's what

I'm question that I'm making this move. If I'm making this move, I was thinking as a starter. I don't know if I could, I know, but I can't. Well, you know, you know she say that if Cheeto's healthy, he starts to the left, he's gonna start it right, and you want to put him on the right side because they don't always attack. You're right, Corners can't always

get attack. Ideally, my starting three would be Byron Cheeto with Jordan in the slot, assuming Byron's good enough to do the job, and if he's not, then you could put Jordan outside or Anthony Brown, which everyone's better, and then let Byron do his tight end thing. And no, that's you would prefer not to pay a guy six million dollars to do that job, but it is what it is, and you don't have to pay him six year six million until next year anyway. By the way,

he's still only costing you one point. Yeah, whatever, is yeah. So it's we jumped like ten positions, but that's okay. I would much round just took care of two of them. We didn't much rather have a guy compete to start at safety than a guy who's gonna play three percent of the snaps behind Jay. You think he's oh okay, I see, no okay. I thought you're a saying Byron Jones. Tight end is a waste of a pick until proven otherwise.

That's sorry. The only reason it was wasted before is Escobar wasn't what they thought, Martellis Bennett was a flake, and Fozzano was not the type of tight end they wanted in this offense. They drafted Fozzano for Parcel's offense to be this big, hulking, blocking tight end you can couldn't get down the field. You can throw whatever reason you want at me. All I know is that there's no reason to believe Jason Witten's going to play less than ninety five percent of snaps until he retires. I'm

with you on that one. There is no evidence to the contrary whatsoever, So spare me the tight end in the first three rounds. That's fair, Dave. That's how I feel all right, let's take our final break. We come back. We took care of a couple of defensive positions. We'll wrap up the rest of them and finish our previown't got to the most two important ones. We'll get to those next. On Talking Cowboys. Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't cut it, and your

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and with us you'll travel like a pro. Visit Cowboys travel dot com to book your travel package today. Before there was a draft, you get sized up a cowboy by three simple factors. The crease in his hat, the bend of his brim, and his unbending attitude a man. Stetson didn't just protect him from what life through at him, It projected a rugged, unstoppable spirit. Stetson hats are American

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more than a fan. You are a member of Cowboys Nation, and so is AT and T doing their part to keep you connected to America's team all season. Law At and T is a proud member of Cowboys Nation. This is Talking Cowboys. Well, if it's draft time, it's Papa

John's Pizza time. If you're sitting there watching three days of the draft, you're gonna get hungry and you're gonna want some Papa John's pizza because of the ingredients pepperoni one hundred percent parking b the veggis fresh hole, never frozen. And when you get hungry, you better call Papa Jones. Thank you, Mickey, Welcome back to Talking Cowboys. One segment left inside the SWBC Mortgage Studio preview in the Draft. Before we get back to that, you wanted to plug

both of you guys. Have Binge watched All or Nothing? Oh? Yeah yeah. I was like, what are you talking about? NFL Amazon series? Really good stuff? Huh. I mean, it's it's fascinating, and I mean there's there's a million smart smart Alec jokes you could make about how obviously they didn't win at all, so it must be nothing or whatever, but it's I mean, if you love the NFL if you love the Cowboys, it's it's unprecedented access. I mean, you're not going to get better access and a better

look at what an NFL team looks like. And Hard Knocks is cool, but the seasons different than Training Camp, so it's a little bit different. Look. You know, if you have Amazon Prime, you have access to it, or it's worth an Amazon Prime subscription, whatever you gotta do to take a look at it. It's pretty cool. Eight hours of very intense behind the scenes Cowboys programming. I

think it's ten times better than Hard Knocks. But to have enough episodes in a mirror training camp with Hard Knocks, they had to invent stuff, right, They didn't have to invent anything here. Now, I could not have written a script for a soap opera for eight series to cover what was covered in this thing between Jerry, the Commissioner, Zeke, suspension,

the National Anthem deal. It was one thing after another after another, and it was access that I would imagine when this coaching staff looks at it, they're going to cringe because they're stuff in there that I'm sure then they're not for it. It comes That's what makes this so good. It comes out April twenty seventh, right Friday Friday to the public. We got we got we got a free preview of it, so we got we got

to check it out. And I think the biggest thing we talked about the office was fans are going to see a different side of Jason Garrett, the side that we've seen you a little bit, you know, but they don't see in press conference's sideline whatever, which and it's very interesting, I mean, and that's a talking point that goes around now because of that. I mean, I'm not here to tell you that Jason Garrett's a better coach

because you see him use vulgarritys on this show. Like I mean, you know, you got your own opinions about him, and that's fine. I think everybody's got an opinion about him at this point. I'm not saying it's got nothing to do with his coaching ability. It's just that we don't get to see this side of him. He's very determined to not show us that side of him. So it's just it's just interesting to see what the players see,

you know what I mean, it'll dismiss the softy label. Yeah, I would see some of this, and that's what the perception of him. Criticism has always been as its coaching is always too nice. He's you know, the perception he gives you in a ten fifteen minute press conference is not it. It's like behind the scenes. And they had cameras all over the place. By the way, Yeah all right,

cool check it out Friday one one. So how are they gonna do it one episode at a time or you can watch them all just to just go watch it your own leisure. Yeah, like I did, staying up to one o'clock in the morning because they needed to watch the next episode. Did that was breaking bad, Mickey, don't worry about It's okay. Bryan's betting offseason, just hammering that one happens. Yeah, yeah, that's what we do. I went on the road like four in the morning. I'm

watching every day. It was great, exhausting. It brings you along for the ride, you know, you get invested. I missed those times. Yeah, those were great. All right, let's wrap up our position by position breakdown and what the cowboy's gonna We're gonna have to haul ass left right, Yeah, we took care of safety and corner. Let's let's do well. I mean, that's true. Yeah, oh, offensive line. Let's let's scroope all the offensive line together. Okay, tackle, guards, center?

Where are they staying after signing a couple of veteran guys flemming In, Marcus Martin. It's the biggest unknown in this draft in my opinion, because we don't know for sure what they're gonna do with Lyle Collins. We've all got our opinions about it, right, But I think they want to move him. You think they want to move him. I hope that they don't want to move him. But really, I mean, nobody's really saying anything other than Lyle saying he doesn't want to move a chance. Asked today at

one o'clock, here's the point. Good point. I'm with Brian because they still talk about best five. If you're talking best five, Lyle Collins is a starter and one of the guys they signed him started in the Super Bowl and he's primarily a tackle. But why why was it he starting before that? I don't care if yeah, I

don't care that he started in the Super Bowl. He's got twenty career starts over seven years, which is like Lyle has almost that many in one I'm just saying I wouldn't dismiss the possibility just because Lyle has said I'm playing. I'm looking at playing tackle. That's what I'm focused on right now. I wouldn't dismiss him moving. All I know is Steven said I could see I could very easily see us picking an offensive lineman in the top four rounds, if not another in the later rounds.

We don't need to have the debate about what they should do with Lyle. We've had it on other shows. We can have it all throughout the summer. The point is, if they want to move Lyle, then they need to draft a tackle. And if they don't want to move Lyle, then they need to draft a guard because if you move them and Cameron Fleming's playing right tackle, need to swimos your swing tackle exactly or drafting a flex dude, well play both. Find a guy that can challenge for

the starting spot at guard. Last year proved that you need a quality third tackle because of Tyrant Smith and you also, I mean you need you need a good guard to finish out that line one or the other. So if you move Lyle, yeah, you need a guy that can either push Fleming or be a great swing tackle or you need a starting guard, And honestly, we can ask that question. I bet you they won't give us a good answer, and so you're just gonna go into the draft and say, Okay, whatever they do here

is going to probably clinch at nineteen. Well, if they take mc clinchy at nineteen, if they Mike McGlinchey at nineteen, it's pretty good bet they're going to try to move lyle. And if they wait until the third round and draft your guy from Washington, stay Madison, maybe they don't want to move on. I'm like, really, I don't know that you're going to get a clearer answer than that. You're just gonna have to wait and see what they decided. And I get a tackle, they can play guard, That's

what I said. Sure, maybe a flex dude, Yeah, and let him compete for the starting guard job. Yeah, like you did with Yas knew, you're gonna bring that. Brian likes this, mor did Adams. No. I'm just saying though, like he did with Larry Allen. Yeah, but I think it's a different page, should be different. I think it's a different era. Give them from you a guy who can do all right anyway, But it's that it's the biggest wildcard in this draft because they have needs on

the offensive line. We don't know where. I'm curious why they brought in two tackles that people think are first round tackles. Yeah, I'm curious by that. Okay, I'm curious why they brought in McGlinchey. And there's I do not like Colton Millard at all. Then there's people that do, and they brought then they brought him in for a visit. And so to me and the guarding they brought in or day three type guy. Yeah, so to me, this is where we thought they did bring in James Daniels.

I'm sorry, I keep cutting it. He's a center. He could play guard, right, Yeah, that's what we're dismissing Martin. He can't play guard. Brian likes him, right, I like Martin. I have no problem Marcus Martin. Marcus Martin, I have no problem with him. I have no problem with him playing it. He kind of he kind of reminded you of Leary watching a film. Yeah, when Larry, when he was first came here, he was like a big, boxy,

square guy. This is with fat Leary, not slim Larry not. Yeah, the slim Leary is like, yeah, he redid himself, but this guy's got some power to him. You'll find me a guard that can compete with him and then leave Leal there and Flumming is my swing backup because I guarantee you they only paid him what two point three million against the cap. And I'll guarantee you if you said last year I needed to spend two point three million on a swing tackle to save my season, they'd

have done it. They would have done it. Yeah, it's not often, but I agree with everything, Mick. I just don't know that that's what they're gonna do. All right, center, Look, Travis Frederick doesn't miss games. You got Joe Looney resigned to probably back up that position. Sure, all right, let's move to D line. Let's just lump edge rush or defensive tackle in together. How big of a need is it on this team? Kinda kind of got to scare about how big defensive tackle was yesterday? Huh, yeah, we

can cover that real quick. Reports yesterday broke a bizarre story. Really, woman claiming to be David Irving's girlfriend apparently got a hold of his Twitter account. Those are the reports made accusations of domestic violence. Irving claimed he was hacked, denied those allegations, and then the woman came back on social media later in the day and retracted everything she said and said those were false allegations that she made and not the first time she's doing that, right, So that's

where that stands right now. I think they needed a defensive tackle regardless, regardless us. Yeah, because if you look at his situation with the contract and then not that he's not that he's facing any potential disco. I'm just saying that this uh, you know, he has resigned for one more year, so he's got I'm saying, you're that one year and then you're looking at you're looking too at MALIEK. Collins coming off a foot injury. You know who's behind him, Brian Price, Richard Ash let me continue,

Daniel Ross, Lewis, Nils Neil. Yeah. So basically, you got Irving and you got MALIEK. Collins, and you got one of those guys doesn't beat out Tyrans Tyron Crawford for the starting right defensive end spot right so he could move inside. He's playing there, yea, and Price, Neil as Ross and Ash. Yeah, seriously. Yeah, that's great. This was to me. You know, we talk about linebacker. Look at the linebackers to the defense doesn't have the depth. It's

like the why like the offense does. The defense is lacking defensive line hyman. As far as inside players, the linebackers. Look at that group. The first set of group is a is a good group behind that? No, which Lee Collins offseason surgery right foot, Yeah, foot surgery. Now he should be ready to go, sure, but it's something to keep an eye on. He dealt with it last year as well, so you think it's rookie year too when you're thinking about depth, something to think about. But he

played through it, which you know and me personally. They brought him in on a visit too. But the guy that I think about the least among the names that we hear at nineteen is Vita Vea. Yeah, but I think they'd take him if he was there. I going back to the tight end thing. I got to see it to believe it, and that's you know, it's not that I don't think he's a good player. It's not that I don't think he could help, but I just I don't believe that they would draft d tackle nineteen.

But he's not. He's not your true run plugging nose though, right, he's got more y. Yeah, but they also they brought into Ron Payne from Alabama. If you watch him in the playoff game, in the championship game, you draft him instantly. Tevin Ryan is a guy Marion Ellie went down there and worked him out. So these three guys can play

no both. Brian's yeah, pain could play both. Brian's a three, it's what he is, and they is a one with some three traits to it, right, which I think that makes a difference if you're talking about guys that can play a three. Then didn't pick in a one? Tick Well, Steven said it, and Steven set everybody off on a tizzy at the combine because he said, you know, they wouldn't draft a pure nose in the first round, but any d tackle that's getting drafted in the first round

can probably do a little bit of both. So that's almost a non story. I think we agree they need one. They do, they absolutely do. I just I don't believe that they'll draft one in the first round. I go, okay, give me a second round guy, did you get painting the second round, so that I don't think you could get pain in the second round myself. That'sn't too much. Yeah, that's what you're really hoping. That's where we've we've well, we've talked, well, pain could be. It possibly that that

could be. But I think it's a little bit of stretch we talked about and not Yea from South Florida is a guy we like. Uh, Phillips from Stanford is a guy we've talked about. Shepherd from Fort Hayes State. Now there's a guy, but he I think he's more of a three, but he's kind of he's three hundred and fifteen pounds. I mean, if if it's not, I don't care what he plays. I just don't think Malak

Collins can hold up at the nose. There's more, no, there's more nose in this draft than there are threes because mclee Collins is better at the three than he was at the nose. But then he did play through the foot injury. Irving played some three last year. Tyrone Crawford has played some three. But yeah, well he's also played in for you and played it pretty well. I think I think, I think, I think Irvings inside, Irvings inside. We gotta get We gotta get Joe Looney's little brother

in here. That's what we gotta do. James Looney d tackle out of cow. Okay, let's make it happen my draft board. Yeah, it's it's it's a sneaky need. And uh, you know, I don't even feel comfortable commenting on David Irving story non story thing, but I mean it was something they were thinking about. But no, we had we had the impression before he was even offered as tender that he probably didn't have a super secure long term future here. You know. I mean he's on a one

year deal. He's betting he's spent in those creeks. Second, I mean, those those kids don't move. It's a need. There's there's no way around it. It's a need. I just I gotta and I would I would be very happy with Vita Vea as the first round pick. I just gotta see it to believe it better. Inder is much better Evans or Vanders Evans. Here we go. My last spot we cut. We covered corner and safety, linebacker.

A lot of us have mocked out at nineteen that when it comes, Yeah, when it comes to pure numbers on this roster right now, even though you signed Joe Thomas to be kind of a depth guy for you, linebacker, to me, to me, to me, from a number standpoint, that's a bigger need than wide receiver. There's six linebackers. How many of them do you trust to start for you? Yeah, you've got three guys that can start. Who's the third one, Thomas or Damian Damien? Yeah, I mean at strong side.

How many times you play a strong side linebacker? Yeah? Exactly. But the key thing is now they think he's coming along. Everybody I've talked to, Jalen Smith is running well, he's cutting Sun, but I don't have anybody behind him. Yeah, nope. See, that's why I think they're interested in Vanderish and I don't have any behind anything behind Sean Leepeah. And that's why they're interested in in Evans because they think that Evans could be a Mike Will where vandersh can play

all three. He could be Mike Feeling, Sam and Will. It's a bitter pill for a lot of Cowboys fans to swallow, But you're just drafting this guy as an insurance policy. If that's what you do. And I know, like that's not what you want for your first round pick, but we saw what happened to this defense when Sean Lee couldn't play and you don't have Anthony Hitchens there to be your security blanket. I hope to hell that Jalen Smith is the best linebacker in the league this year.

Like I want the best for that guy, but you can't count on that. That's the wildcard. Where is he playing and how many snaps is he playing? Well, if you can't count on him being a one hundred percent snaps guy. So if vander esh is that versatile, I could see Jalen playing first second down and that guy's on the nickel with Shaun Lee and that's a pretty

big role. No, no no, no, no, absolutely, I'm just they start him at sam and then when they go to nickel, they moved, they to them inside and they take and they put and they put Smith down rush. A linebacker you draft at nineteen would play thirty to sixty percent of the snaps ideally, which I think is good. But people want a one hundred percent guy. They want a guy who's gonna play. That's why people are saying, you know, well, draft a guard who's gonna be there every snap of

the season instead. But I just think this team is a lot more screwed without a linebacker insurance policy than it is without it. They can't go to a game with the linebackers they currently behind them, I don't think so. Basically four games last year Hitchins missed four or four came back for the Packer game, right, which oh yea right, yeah yeah yeah, and they miss some time together. So yeah. I mean, you could say you're drafting just insurance, but

it's a high impact position. Guys get hurt at linebacker. It's an important if you want a position. They might double dip on linebacker. I think they should. They might take they got those two fourth round picks. I mean, that's what I'm saying. They might take the first, the first pick at nineteen, and then one of those other picks. The you know, Hitchens wasn't a bad fourth round pick. Oh yeah, no, Joe Thomas, Shaun Lee, Justin March, Lillard,

Jalen Smith, Damien Wilson, tray Von Tyon Johnson. Yeah. I just I mean, hey, and we I think we've done as good a job as we could possibly hope too. Of listing out all the possibilities, they could go in a number of different directions. I definitely don't think anything's a lock. But if I had to put my money on what I think the first round pick will be, um, it's I've been saying linebacker for a month, to keep

saying I don't disagree with him. And the two guys that you think will be there, Layton vander Esh and Rashaun Evans. They'll have to make a decision there, and again I think they'll make the decision because of vander Esh, because of the three spots. No chance of those other guys that are expected to go early falling. I mean anything. I mean Quan Smith and Edmunds people, there's a background.

Anything's possible, I guess, but I wouldn't better. But they're in they're in that mix of the Nelson you know that every everybody who's a non quarterback that's a high position player, they're in that mix. That's what they're at, all right, All right, I think we're in agreement there. Linebacker probably the biggest need watch and it won't be a linebacker on Thursday. That's just how those things go. That's but It's okay, let's talk about it. Strange lady, right,

Brian Strange label draft. We'll find out what happens Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday. Should be fun. Thanks for joining us. Stay tuned all week for draft coverage. Pre draft coverage is a press conference today involving I believe the Jones. Jones is uh scary. Should be there so we'll get an idea, maybe, of what they might be thinking draft one o'clock one o'clock Central. Belive on Dallas Cowboys dot Com.

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