Talkin' Cowboys: Present & Future

several moments anticipating the start of the show. Hello are how are you? Rob? I'm great, I'm ready, I'm ready all right. And then here's Brian. Brian has brought us that did they send him to the emergency room? He's here, he's here, he's in the emergency room. Is he really? Yeah? What happened? Somebody attacked Twitter? I think? Oh? Oh, Here he comes. He's in the virtually here he is. Here we go in the grand entrance. Here he is. They're great.

Brian brought us, joins us here on talking Cowboys. How we doing, guys? Good? How you doing? Are you? Are you any better? No? Oh, no, I'm not. I haven't heard you don't even have your phone, do you? Nope? Gosh, that's why I hate Twitter. I hate Twitter, folks. I hate Twitter. I gotta go. How are you folks that answer or send me questions? I appreciate you. I hate Twitter. I've taken the Mickey Spagnola approach. He's lying. No, I don't, I don't. This is I told Derek Eagleton, this is

my opportunity to delete Twitter now. I'm done. Too many people rely on you, buddy. No, you have to be at one forty in the morning while I sleep. Some robot got me or something. I apologize to the Russians. It might be Mickey. I didn't want to point the finger at them. Right now. What happened to your Twitter? Yeah exactly, Bill, I haven't looked. I'm afraid to look at it. Don't you might get the virus. Oh, I gotta get off it. Yeah exactly. There's something. There's something

weird about that thing going on room. Yeah, I don't know. It's me. It's yeah, it's awful. And I apologize to all you folks to follow me. I apologize, I really really do. I did not your fault. I didn't mean to ruin your evening. So did people put like weird stuff out? Know what happened? It was like a robot,

just a repetitive message, just the same one. Yeah, but I was to be honest, I'm so grateful it wasn't any derogatory racially remarks any and that stuff something that I would that it's not me, you know, kind of a thing. And so this is my this is my way of never having to deal with Twitter again. Wow, I had no idea. I appreciate that close up Kent right there, folks, What are you looking at? I just looked at his Twitter and what are you seeing? Nothing? I'm saying, well, it it does not it has it

doesn't it? What was your image that you had? It might picture of me and Bennett in San Francisco. So it's an alid blank or yeah, it has to be an egg. I don't know what they are now. It's just a person like immersive silhouette of a person. Might passwords, you know, yeah I would, yeah, I would. Next it has a dot and a check mark, yeah, which is verified. Yeah, yeah, I'm about to not be verified anymore. This this This makes me so mad. This makes me mad. I just

and I don't mean to start. Here are five minutes and a showing bitching about Twitter. You know, I just hate it. I hate it with people. You know, people, but you but no, no, no people. How you enjoy answering people's questions? Right? I do, but they're But the problem is when it when it when it back? You know when it when it when it gets to the the point where now someone's timeline is completely jacked because of my stuff. That's not that's not what kind of crap

is that. That's where I'm mad. I'm mad because people are looking at going, oh brought us you got hacked? Oh yeah, yeah, I know it. I got hacked. I woke up this morning. I got hacked. And then then you try and get it with Twitter. I'm sorry, this is Mickey's minute. Can't give me it. Hit the sounder, yeah, it's play. Hit the sounder. Bays brought us those two minutes. I don't have it. I'm locked out of that machine right now. You got that, Yeah, I got the issues.

You got the virus too, exactly happening around. Okay, I try and change my password and Twitter says, oh, you've used too many opportunities, you've gone, you've exceeded your Oh so somebody was trying to figure out Yeah, I don't know anyway, maybe they changed your password. They probably did, can't you know? And it just gives me good reason

not to deal with it. I'll figure it out. Don'll be back online before you Yeah, I get you know, you know, I gave it to everybody doing, gave it to him today to try and figure out Jason, Garrett channone, it's not Garrett channone? What's that? What's that? Barabotic? I got this? Yeah, don't worry about Twitter's on fire of hell? Is he better today, Shannon? Yeah, I don't know he he was. I don't making his whole building's fault. It was out falling. Yeah, it's falling down around. It's a

bad omen for Cowboys, Eagles. I hope it's because I apologize everybody out there for coming in. They're all pissed off. My bad. Well, it's understandable. Yeah, I just don't. I hate it when it makes other people's lives kind of what they kind of look like, what what do they have to do with all that? You know? I don't want to so they got to get rid of broad Us. They should so they don't get a bad tweet. They should. They should have many followers? Did you have? I'll say

it past tense now that you have kid. I didn't know this number because I actually do care about it because it was closing in on one hundred k. It's it'd say, almost at ninety nine thousand. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting that we bring this up off the top because I was going to ask you, do you know what has what has been your most liked or retweeted tweet? It's always stuff to do with the draft, right, people love the draft. Do you remember about how many it

might too? I don't, but I just it's anything to do with the draft. Folks love the draft. How would you know that? Well, you just you tweet something and then it shows you the number of people who have liked the tweet tweeted. In fact, the reason I asked I had a tweet this week about Kyler Murray is the Heisman Trophy is the fifteenth Texas high school football product in the last fifteen years to be named a

Heisman Trophy finalists. Right, and somebody there was somebody with a lot of followers who must have retweeted it because it has two thousand, two hundred nine likes on it. Yeah, okay, which is I mean? For me, I've got like eighteen thousand followers. I mean. The only other time that I've had a tweet that Matt came close to that and probably exceeded that was when I was covering the Rangers

in spring training. It was the day after you Darvish tore his is ucl is ultra ulner collateral ligament, had to have Tommy John surgery. The next day, he was out on the field throwing left handed. Yeah, and I had video of him throwing left handed and he I said, okay, you Darvish tours ligament in his right elbow, so he's now a left handed pitcher. And there were I got so many Japanese followers, and I guarantee you it had

like three thousand retweets and head, Hey, that's whatever. But anyway, so with you with one hundred thousand followers in the trap, there had to be so many. We're gonna get this thing fixed and we're gonna get you back on. I appreciate that because because we need you on there, because, like you said, draft related stuff even this season, like just pisses me off. Yeah, fix, I didn't know that

counter was on there. Yeah, so, Mickey, no telling how many you've had absolutely yeah, Eagles, right, Oh, I know, I know followers I didn't know likes. Yeah, yep, yep. And the only thing people like what I do and somebody has a derogatory comment about me and I say bye bye, and then everybody thinks, ha ha, that's funny. That's my favorite. I always like that one too. And by the way, since you're no longer on Twitter, Brian, you can't see this remark, but Reuben Cardona says, sorry

to hear you don't like Twitter anymore. Yeah, just so you know, I really appreciate you answering my dumb questions. You don't have dumb questions, Trueman. I appreciate your questions. All right, all right, Eagles, everybody doing great. Give us enough for that. Give us an injury update, Mickey, what do you know? I'm sorry about that. Took ten minutes. That's way too long for that. Go ahead and make you. Um. I think the most critical ones are that think about it. Yeah,

let me think about it. Jump, I'm sorry, he limited, Yes, so that was a step in the right direction. Cole Beasley, I think everybody was infinitely worried about him and his sprained foot that he finished the game with was limited, so that was a step in the right direction. And uh literally slew a Philo was limited so he was able to practice. And Zach Martin was listed as full and that might be the first time it's been full

since before Thanksgiving. Yeah, and wait before a DNP and that didn't change, and Irving didn't change, and Tavon Austin didn't change. Uh. Chitabeowoozi was DNP but he was sick, so that I don't want to say that's a good thing, but it's not an injury. Yeah, And the Eagles have their problems also, by the way, to walk through yesterday, to walk through, well, Jalen Mills couldn't walk through. Yeah, Maddox, their backup corner couldn't walk through. The costn't walk through.

They're compromised there. This is this is where this game is going to hinge for me. In the secondary. Yeah, let's let's see if Dallas can take advantage of the secondary. You get some protection. Again, we talked about this yesterday. Bill if Mickey's offensive line can hold up in this game if they can, if they can just kind of hold up, you know, if it means keeping it tied in or keeping whatever you have to do, hold up because you can make some plays against the secondary. I

do believe that that. And it might be early to back people off, you know, so you can be able to run the football a little bit. The team always strives for balance, but it might be the good plan to go early pass and try and get some things going that way with a secondary. It just comes down to finishing drives, though talked about it yesterday. Been awful red zone goal to goal their thirty first bill. We

talked about that yesterday. In the league, in finishing drives, goal to goal situations, Philly hasn't been great at it either. But you know, we talked to Cold Easily about things yesterday. Offensively, he said, you know that we're happy to win the game, win the Saints game last week, but offensively, we were frustrated with the way we played. Didn't score enough points and so there wasn't and it was a weird vibe in that locker room after that game. I mean, guys,

weren't about one of the game. They weren't elated with the victory. I think a lot of the guys expected it. They expected to win the game. Maybe that and the fact that they didn't think they played well enough. They thought they should have maybe blown them out. Honestly, we've had that happening. How much how much do you think players are in tune with what us outsiders are standings

and stuff. Yeah, about the perspective of VERI early little Brad Sham and I sat there and talked with Tyrone Crawford the other day and we were explaining the standings and everything, and he was he was, oh, oh, okay, and it's like, well, who do they have to play? Yeah, It's like, well the Rams the Texans? Oh really yeah? Uh? And and so where are they compared? And he had no clue. See, I can understand that a player not understanding who the Eagles have left to play, but you

would think they would understand who they have left. Oh, I think he no. Here's what I heard an interview with somebody after a game. It was another team I've been like Courtland Sutton or somebody with the Broncos or I can't remember who it was. And they literally they were being interviewed after the game, and he said, whoever we play next week, I'm gonna do whatever. And I could not believe that this player. It sounded genuine that this player really did not know who their next opponent

was going to be. Jason Garrett tries not to let them live in that world, right, I mean he truly like what he says to us day to day. I think that's what he preaches to them too. Now. I think there's a point in time where he will say to them, all right, this is what we've got to do. But that time hasn't come yet. I mean, really, all they need to do is keep winning. So how could

you not know when you're talking about the Saints last week? Okay, we all know what the Saints have been tearing it up, Yes, but maybe in the perspective of the guys in the locker, around the world attention and so they are, they knew how good they were, but they were stopping it. Yeah, unless Marinelli goes into the meeting and says it starts talking about the Saints offense and says, now they've won ten games in a row, we got to buckle down

something like that. Remember, on the remember on the Amazon show. They were on Amazon. Yeah, like Dez, It's like, well, aren't we any good? Yeah, Derek dood. I mean we're talking about the Broncos secondary and all the All pros and Pro Bowlers and the Broncos secondary last year, and Dez took offense to it and say, what about us. I guarantee you they got sick of here? And how good the Saints were from us? From us, from the media,

they they got they got tired without question. Um. But Tyrone told us the other day too, like he he doesn't really watch football outside of film studying for the week. So you know, maybe guys aren't. They go home and they have lives and they do other things. And the other thing is, which we can even see when we're looking at coaches film and stuff, that there's a fine line a lot of times between getting up on a team,

winning a game whatever. There comes down to certain plays and you know that they've been coached during the week that these are the weaknesses that the Saints have. If you can take advantage of this, then we have a chance to win the game. So that builds confidence that okay, we can do this, and so then they expect to score touchdowns rather than kick field goals against the Saints on offense. To put in the perspective of our conversation,

somebody made a comment. They were asked about a team and the answer was, well, I haven't started watching tape on them yet, but as we were getting ready for such and such game, we saw them on tape. And it's not like they sat at home and oh, it's Thursday night. Let me set the DVR because I'm watching

this game tonight, you know, and picture this. Do you think Zeke has sat at home and looked at the standings and said, you know, if we win two more games, we're going to plane the NFC East, you know, because I can do the math on sitting there. Why don't want to believe? Why don't want to believe that these guys do know? Why do I want to believe that because people probably tell them. I think, guys, here are things,

but just I don't know. I just don't know how you could play a whole season or get get to a certain point and not know what you have to do. It's actually a pretty good deal if you don't, well, oh no, it will, trust me. I mean, it's a great deal if you. I mean, I would rather go cook crawfish. Guys sit there and have to do it. Let me ask you this. When you were in high school playing for W. T. White College, I knew, I knew how we were going to get into a bowl game.

I knew you had to be to win a conference championship, you had to beat Mississippi State, you had to be. You figured it out in general. I drove real quick for us to get into Sugar Bowl. In nineteen eighty four. I drove with two other buddies from a bar in Baton Rouge to Birmingham, Alabama, so I could watch Alabama be Auburn to us to get in the Sugar Bowl. That's on a on a Friday afternoon. I did that. Maybe I'm weird. Maybe I want to because if I'm

in scouting, I did in scouting. I knew, Okay, you gotta win ten games. How what's the combination to get to ten to get you in the playoffs. Sometimes it doesn't work, but a lot of times it does. I think if guys are on Twitter, they probably read some of this stuff or people tell them. But yeah, it doesn't surprise me that guys don't know the Eagles schedule the rest of the way. They their head coach tries to lock them literally on what they're doing on Thursday today,

and that's it. And I think they buy into that. I really do believe that. Now. Do they know the other standings in the division? Yeah, but going like deep dive next gen type crap. No, they don't. And I wouldn't either go out and play. Okay, I'll take it down to step further. When you were in the youth league, did you know who you're playing next week? No questions you guys had about you guys listening to you, guys

driving around night blue, questions about Patrick, Yeah, Patrick Crayton. Yeah, exactly, that's a good question. I knew my batting average. Okay, he goes. I had a little book and every day came home and they're better. Not have been a couple of zeros for something, right, It's time to see funning and beating it out. I just don't when the player always says we just tuned it out, we don't listen. Here's my I've had players walk up to me and said,

why did you say that? That's a different comp you know, And and I look at them like, okay, you're telling me you don't listen to what we say. All right, that's a different thing. Here's it. Yes, here's what I've contended. Really well, yeah, that's different than standings and all that kind of stuff. Knowing what you have to do to get in the playoffs. I bet this is what Zeke knows. He knows that he's twenty five yards behind tired Gurley for the rushing. Yeah, yeah, he would be. He would

know that. I think he knows that all right. When I limited amount that I played, Okay, I knew that stuff, but I would a budding sportscaster. Okay, yeah, I was a journalist at heart, and so I was into that sort of thing. But I think with these professional athletes, I mean, if you're if you're that good, how about baseball? They get down to the end, they know how many games they've got left and how many they've got to win,

and Matt why they have magic numbers. I think that they are so good at what they do that they don't have to They don't even mess with a lot of the periphery stuff that we do because you guys, I think you guys are getting fooled here not getting fooled. Yes, I like I just said, I think general stuff they probably know deep dive into what how many games this

team has against this team? Like now they don't know that stuff now this day and age of I mean, okay, I would say in nineteen ninety two when Bill and Mickey were covering the team, and Mickey would walk up and say, well, they've got you know, Mickey would know the schedule of the Philadelphia Eagles, and then maybe that you know, maybe Nate Newton didn't know exactly who the Eagles were going to play. But with the way that social media is nowadays, if they see you can, you

can follow. I mean these guys follow like writers and stuff. They know what's going on. Some of them do, some of them Crawford follows me. I think on Twitter. I think they know when they clinch a division title, somebody gives them a hat. Now one I can't believe. No. I just think that they are so into, like what Mickey says, with their own personal stuff that they don't It's like with players at this point in time of the year. You don't think I think they know what

the standings are. I think they know who they're gonna play. I don't think they compute the ramifications of this game, this game and how it affects us. How you sit down and watch Sunday Night football and the third fourth quarter they put up playoff picture division leaders. Then maybe that's there. There's another question. Maybe that's when Dak fell asleep. How many of the players on the team know all the what the names of all the players on the

team are? No, their own teammates, Yeah, their own teammates. Oh, I I guarantee you. There are a bunch of guys in there. And I'm talking about the girls. What are you doing here now? No, No, I'm talking about that. I'm talking about the guys that get signed during the season, you know, okay at the beginning, Okay, you're talking about uh, the coup the corner, Yeah, something like that's like that who have been signed or maybe practice squads, guys on

that end practice squad. I didn't know how man, Okay, how many of the players on the fifty three man roster can name all of the practice squad guys? If they could walk into the locker room and they know their name? Now, yeah, that I don't think. Hey, I was sitting very very few. I bet. I was sitting

in the locker room next to Nate Newton. The Cowboys had traded for Dale Hellistry, and he came walking through that curtain on the on the west side of the locker room, and he looked up and he saw this guy coming in with just not a very flattering body. And Nate looked at me and goes, hell is that? And I said, you just traded for a deep snapper. He goes, we did no clue. That's before Twitter and

all that. But where I will where newspapers where I will agree with Brian that I don't think players read. When players tell you they don't pay attention to stuff that now maybe they try not to. Oh Bob, don't, but don't ride the fence on this year. I'm not riding the fence. Will you let me talk, let me finish my please, But we'll get to it. I'm trying to people tell them things, and I think that's where it comes from. But I don't think guys every guy

reads everything. I believe a little bit of it. But when guys will come to you and said they don't like what you wrote, well, they got it from somewhere, you know. Somebody told him this reminds me of the legend of Ricky Henderson in the in the baseball clubhouses. In fact, al Lider took him around with a TV camera and went to his teammates in the clubhouse to see how many this is when he's with the New York Mets. How many of his Mets teammates that Ricky

Henderson could name? And he couldn't name a single one of them. He gets traded to Seattle or something, and John Olrud was there. Yeah, And John Olrud would wear a batting helmet when he played in the field. In the field, okay. And Ricky Henderson goes up to him and said, wow, you were a batting helmet in the field. You know, I played with a guy in New York who wore a batting helmet in the field too. It was the same. All right, we continue we are Oh wait,

I got one more for you, okay, you said, Ricky. Yeah, Missouri had a basketball player named Ricky Frasier. Yeah, I remember him play with Steve Stepanovitch and Curtis Berry and Lady darn Good, right, and they were getting ready to play an NCAA playoff game against Notre Dame and Kelly Tripuca all American. Everybody knows who Kelly Tripuka is. So they're in the locker room before the game and Norm Stewart looks at Ricky and he goes, you got Kelly Tripuka.

And Ricky turns and he goes who. He had no idea And it's like they had to give him the numbers to know who he was going to cover. He had no clue. One of the great basketball players who didn't have much upstairs. M okay, and we continue with talking about Cowboys that we're going to take a look at the Philadelphia Eagles and who he coming up next. Has been helping Cowboys fans see better since nineteen seventy two so they don't miss a moment on the field.

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miss the highly anticipated Blockbusters Showdown. Tickets on sale now at SeatGeek dot com, the official ticket provider of AT and T Stadium. That's March sixteenth at AT and T Stadium. I'm going it'll be a good one. I want to I want to hear this story. Well maybe another day, Yeah, maybe another time, Mickey, we got the chance in the in the fraternity. Huh no, no, no, not that story. Didn't you spend money on boxing tickets? We end up

getting free ones? Didn't then? The last time? You know, no, no, I got a press pass when it was at the Ford Center. Yeah. Before that, you know, they can you buy something all of sudden they offered them free to us, absolutely all right at the stadium. Yeah the uh who heck you? Oh yeah, Mickey's odd. Damn. That might even been a football game too. Yeah. Well, oh it was the LSU game, the LSU game, that LSU Miam game, and that was another one. That's that's a that's a

bad thought. I mean, they're nice enough to provide his tickets. You think, I gotta get tickets, and then you get him in the next thing, you know, like four weeks later, you get the email, Hey it would like some tickets, and you're like, wonderful. You just bang your head against the wall, and I have folks coming in from out of town. I couldn't take that chance. Yeah, there you go.

It's fair, all right. Justin Byerley on Twitter asked the question, Twitter, can you talk about the difference Noah Brown has made since being active this year? Is he part of the reason the run game is better? And should he be more involved in the pass game? I said this on the radio this morning, Mick. I think I was after as before you this morning, and I was because then I found out you're my problems. Problems. Yeah to me, Noah Brown. They need to throw the ball to Noah

Brown and yeah, I'll see you Noah Brown. You know, you know Aigman talked about him the other day watching tape him and the comeback round here're in. He's right about Noah Brown. Noah Brown has some Noah Brown's better than just a blocker. I mean, he's a tough guy. They've you know, they've used him in some things where he's been in motion and let up inside and dug some linebackers out or took them taking the safety out of the play. But yeah, throwing the ball to Noah

Brown is not a bad option. I mean, you know they've got this is the problem that the Eagles are gonna run into their their secondary. They're gonna have, you know, if the Cowboys are I think the Cowboys are better equipped to cover the Eagles than they are the Eagles cover the Cowboys in this one. Yeah, because Noah Brown should be a part of that. And you are seeing a little more of Noah Brown when they go multi receiver sets. He's out there. I think he's His snap

tootals have exceeded Alan Hearns in the last couple of games. Yeah, there you go. Not one hundred percent on that, but but I think we're seeing more and more of him out there. And it's not just on running plays. You know, we've talked about what he can do some of those crackback blocks on on some runs, especially when Cam Fleming's playing left tackle. Yeah, how old is Noah Brown? Twenty two man? Any other guesses. Yeah, he did definitely came

out early twenty two two. He's twenty one. Okay, he doesn't turn twenty two until a month from now in January sixth. He think it's twenty two. Yeah, I mean, oh, I checked that he is twenty two. I'm sorry, my math is mad. He's Twitter probably got that off Twitter. No, I got half Wikipedia. I just misread it. I just so he's twenty two years old. He'd be twenty two. Yeah, but it's still See this is where it's this young.

This is where the Cowboys. Think about this. Now, if you want to play GM guy down the road here, think about your receivers. Get Noah Brown going twenty two years old, Michael Gallup? How do you think Michael Gallups twenty two years old? Twenty one years old? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah? That the guy who's your number one receiver. Now he's what twenty four? Think about this. I give you another name that I had even thought about. Uh, Danny Serek

gave me. Cedric Wilson was a guy they drafted, Rick Wilson that they like, and he got hurt and he's on IR this year. Yeah, but that's another guy who's going to compete next year. Yeah, that's to me that this is you know, it went from a team that had receiver by committee too, like okay, in you know, two thousand and nineteen. You know you're thinking, wow, this this receiving corps might be you know, pretty damn good. And Gallup is twenty two. He is two months younger

than Noah Brown. Yeah, there you go. So Noah Brown the last two games twenty and twenty one snaps turns thirty two and sixteen six sixteen sixteen. Yeah, but you're gonna need him if he can't go. But his snaps went up when Tyrant Smith went out. Yeah, right, trying to help on that edge. Speaking of snaps, Okay, we want Layton vander Esch on the field as much as possible. Is that what I'm hearing from everyone the masses Twitter verse? Yeah? Yeah, when did he come off the field last week? He

was off the field for eight snaps last week. They took him off. They took him off because yeah, they went to the dime. Yeah, and Gordon Lewis was on the field, and so from that standpoint, it was pretty good idea to have Jordan Lewis on the field on those snaps. I just think it's funny that, Okay, we want Layton vander esh and I agree, well, you want him on the field as much as possible, but sometimes there are packages where a guy comes off the field.

Then those packages can be pretty effective. Yeah, and that one was really effective. And they need to figure out something for Zach Arntz this week. You know, let's see. I mean, you know, they were very creative last week. It felt like that, It felt like that Jordan Lewis was on on my guy all every snap, but it was only eight and it was you look at that line score. It was very much a David Irving Green Bay Packer line score, you know, from that time where

he played a certain amount of play nineteen snaps. Yeah, got defensive player of the way exactly exactly. So yes, no, I'm it brought up again the thought of okay, when Sean gets back, then how do you make this all work?

But again, I think it's gonna be a thing where Okay, take this series off, come back in and we try to keep everybody fresh and everybody yet I don't know, forty something snaps, Maybe you can get maybe you can get even more creative with some ideas, maybe this last month of the season, you know, you break some of the tendencies that you've had during the year. You know, you've you've played a lot of games without Sean Lee. Now maybe you can create some other opportunities at some

offenses in this last month, mainly Indianapolis and Tampa. And you know, and if you could get into the playoffs, you're creating opportunities. Say, Okay, we haven't shown this all year. Now you break it out in one of those games, and it wins you a game because you have eight snaps where they where they completely take a key player out of the game. And you have now figured out that maybe Layton vanderash can mentally handle things much more than what a rookie normally can. This is this is

where my worry was. And I you know, because rookies tend to hit the wall. You know, Layton Vanderish's body is telling him he's now it's time for him to get ready for the Holiday Bowl. You know, it's telling him he needs to get ready for the Idaho Potatoble. You know, his body is his body's telling him that, you know, because he's you know, but now, but if you think about this though a little bit Brian. He didn't go through all the preseason. You know, he played

hardly any of that really the ota. But but you're still rorried about the rookie wall. And okay, if he were to hit the rookie wall, then you have a guy like Sean Lee there to kind of pick up the pieces if that happened. You think that's a real thing. The wall my experience of rookies, yes, I think it's a real thing. I really really do. And now there's some players that that manage to fight through it. And you know, but you see the level of play. Does

winning help you get through that rookie wall? I think it does. I think it does. But but these guys, I mean, you have to condition yourself to play. You ask Layton Vanderish right now how he feels. He'll probably saw, I feel pretty good. But you know, ask him two weeks from now. How you know he's been in a lot of car rex. I mean if you look at him making a lot of tackles and having to play a lot of snaps, and you know, I'm sure he's you know, thinking like I'm a young guy. But you know,

there comes a point in time too. You have to fight through that a little bit. Not only he's ready to take finals and take a month off. That's right, that's kind of what you do when you're Yeah, you're college football player. You're trying to get trying to get ready for the Holiday Bowl. It's thought, especially the position he plays, like he said, I mean, it's it's the most high impact position other than running back, which, by the way, Zeke said, this is the best Wednesday he's

felt in weeks. So because he had a long weekend. Nobody needed it more than Zeke. I think, all right, I bet the quarterback needed it. Yeah, you ask him no, but he'd been sacked seventeen times in four games. What are we doing about that? Mickey? Um, I mean, I know, I'm asking I got to get better. That's a terrible question to ask you. It's a terrible stat to have to point out. Do you think that's gonna be that's still one? Is that gonna be the downfall of this

team at the end? Not protecting the quarterback? Yeah? Yeah? Is that going to be the one thing that oak this defense? Is playing Gray? Oh, the receivers looks like we're getting something with a Maury Cooper here had a guy left, I think, come up and tell me that more than half of those sacks are on deck. I said half. Seriously, I don't know about that. Now, don't go that route. You know, if you are going to

make a playoff run, you've got to have him. Last week, for sure, I thought, you've got to be able to finish drives. However, that happens, and that's a part of it, because when they've gotten down, I think two of the situations they got in the red zone or one in each of the last two games they've won, it's been a sack that's pushed him either out of field goal range or knocked him back into a field goal situation.

Or a run first down run for a loss. Yeah, or uh, missed pass in the end zone to a wide open guy or a drop in the end Yeah, but a lot of different things. Why did he miss that guy? A little bit of pressure, guy was barren down on him and he was having to back pedal and just threw the ball up to say from getting sacked. Been a lot of reasons for it, but yeah, they got to drop past drive. You gotta be able to more points in the playoffs. If you get there. Worried

more about the sacks of the red zone offense. I think they go handed. That's kind of what I was saying, kind of goes handed, I understand. But if you had to pick one, I know they go hand in hand. But it fix one first. Fix one for me, I'd say fixed the sacks. They're winning games getting sacked, which is incredible that the red zone offense they could put people away if they could just finish some damn drives or figure out how to get them in. Yeah. It's like,

can I run it in there? Or are they stack in the box where I have to come up with some gingerbread play to get it in there? Half back pass yeah yeah, or let the tight end on a round throw it you know. Yeah, I just I both of them are troubling to me. I just the sacks that's troubling. I mean, it's like having a penalty, yeah, and you don't get them down and you don't get the down or you're better holding at least you get this. This is gonna go down as one of the most

sacked teams in Cowboy history. Am I write about that? What's the record? You know it was in the fifties, I want to say, and there, and of course they didn't start keeping sacks until nineteen eighty two, so it's from nineteen eighty two on that we actually know the enough. This is not a Steve Pollard Danny White thing. I think it's a Steve Pelard thing. Yeah, well in eighty nine, eighty nine, yeah, you know, yea seven in one game. I just that was nineteen nine, that was ninety yeah,

let me ask you. Yeah, but he was getting knocked around. How do you fix the red zone stuff? Then? How do you fix that? Do you have to come up with better plays or do you have to execute better when you get back. I think a lot of it's been execution. Like I said, the Washington game, little pressure, Noel Brown, wide open. I know people think they get past happy down there, and I you know, I'd like to see them just hand the ball your best player more.

But on one I think on one of these red zone drives here last games, he got a like minus one or it was a one yard game, and then Dak winds up getting sacked. I want to say it might have been the Tennessee game when they had those opportunities seventeen I want to say the first play, first and goal at the four turned into first and goal

at the six. On the sacks. The Cowboys actually have kept the sack totals going back all the way to nineteen sixty apparently because they have a in the record book. The most sacks by an opponent in a season was sixty eight in nineteen sixty four, according to the Cowboys media gain about after and in nineteen eighty six with an asterisk by it, sixty sacks, so they're at forty five right now. The asterisk is probably because Danny White got hurt the second half of the season and then

Steve eighty six was it? When was the strike? Say, okay, eighty six eighty six? Because that's official, maybe they make sure I'm gonna get my glasses. No, I'm saying that. I just an official stat at that point. I just hope that's not the thing that derails this team, that they can't protect it, because they can't protect the quarterback enough to to win these games they need to down the stretch. But they've been giving up sacks and winning.

So that's probably why the asterisk is there, because it's an officials in officials, Yeah, yeah, well, giving up sacks and as long as your defense is playing at an elite level, that's holding teams to what you're holding them too. Yeah. But see, but there's gonna be times where your defense is going to be challenged. I mean, so you got to be able to match them. In twenty seven points in this first game against Philly, that's you know, you need to get something like that every game you scored

twenty seven. I'm sorry, Mickey, go ahead. I was gonna say no. When you're getting sacked that much, you're encouraging teams to continue to blitch you. You've got to make them pay for those blitz as you can allow. And that last game, the Saints started coming. They were coming. Yeah, and that's where that screen comes in. Yeah. One touchdown they got was that screen to zeke More. Screens always seems to work. The screens. Screens are good, especially on

your house. Can you win this game scoring just twenty four points? This game coming up? Yeah? You think twenty three? That wasn't going to be my scorer already? All right, we do that tomorrow? Right? Oh okay, I jumped, But Rob, can you win this game just scoring twenty four points? I think the defense has shown that they Yeah, but I'd feel more comfortable if you're pushing more to thirty.

I think this offense is I think this office is capable of that with Cooper, now with Zeke, and I mean, they are capable of scoring more than they had earlier in the season. But if you look at the numbers, you say, I think the defense could hold them Eagles to twenty with all the weapons. I know, we talked about it this way. It's gonna be tough because they're gonna give up some plays. Probably. Did you guys think they were gonna split this series when you looked at

this on paper to start the year annually? Did you think the home win home road loss kind of a thing? I go into every season thinking it's gonna be three and three record just on the division. Yeah, you pretty much are gonna split somehow with every team more or less. I'm sitting there thinking last night, and I was pumping how good the a NFC South was. It's a freaking train wreck over there, you know. Yeah, I'm tired and I'm tired of hearing the the NFC East the worst

division in football. Oh no, the the the NFC South is bad. Than how good's the AFC East. Yeah, well, I'm just talking about the teams down our argument about that he gets six he gets six games every year. I'm just talking about the game is having to win, you know, they're having the games, are having to win. I was thinking four and two in the because your point, Atlanta has slipped, Carolina has slipped. Yeah, Tampa has struggled. Yeah, you beat New Orleans. How good the North? Well that's

Bears are slipping. Yeah, Packers faded away again. I'm just viking focusing on the teams you're playing. Yeah, I know, but I'm just saying that that if I see that one more time about well, the NFC East the worst season. This is where you need to play Carolina now, Yeah, instead of playing instead of playing an opening day, this is where you need and you can't help your schedule to place East Carolina. This is where you know, this is where you need to play Tennessee. You know that

kind of bit. But that's what happens. That's what I have. A young team. Maybe it rows as you go along. I make You're right about this offensive line stuff, though, I'm worried about that. I'm worried about the sacks. I'm worried about that costs them a game, you know, sacks. With forty five sacks through twelve games, they are on a pace to match that official record of sixty sacks. Because it's not just the sacks, it's also Dak has he just fumbles for it. It's not always on him.

I mean, it's just right. You're right, you're got to protect the ball better. Or why is he having to protect the ball because he's running for his life or the guard gets pushed back into him and raises his hand as he's pulling the ball down and knocks the ball or your own quarterback's hand. All right, we're going to continue and go to Joe and it. But other than that, when talking Cowboys continues in a moment, if you're like me and you love I mean, if you

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USA dot com terms and conditions. Applying back to Talking Cowboys, the phone hasn't been turned on yet, but we got to get to Jack Black and we still don't have a read that is showed up again. You don't need it, So I'm gonna tell you my four faves from this morning. The TurboWash, the shampoo, the beer lube, and the post shower moisturizer. Right, I've got I've got to purge the the visual of Mickey Spagnola the shower right now out of my mind. Okay, kid, you, why is that so weird?

Have you never been in the locker room before. Nobody enjoys the locker room setting more than you. The locker room right of old Italian men's and towels talking to each other. Somebody was somebody was like traumatized when I talked about the men's locker room and tum like when we were in high school or college or whatever, that there weren't individual stalls the women had, you know, with

a curtain. You mean there was just a big room. Yeah, And I guarantee that big room out here I'm getting there. The big room out here at the Star has that turbo wash. Oh, there you go, because that's what the pros right there you go. If you want to get some of this, you go to get Jack Black dot com and there's some promos in there if you use the code. Cowboys song reminds me of Georgia Tech ten

dollars a rambling wreck. Shipping is free. You know where you can find some of those Jack Black brothers as well? Not in the shower stall here at the Cowboys Club, right, Brian's like slapping up and that box that's on the fritz, Like Mickey stops shower talking. What about those four phaves come on while we were getting He's right about He's right about the four phaves all very good product. Cowboys Club. Huh yep, at the Cowboys Club. That's where we were

last night. Patrick Crayton was our Good Interviews guest last Good Interviews life was hopping. It was that happens the holiday season. That place gets more crowded. I think there's holiday great food parties going on there. That's good week. That's right. And by the way, registration for holiday youth camps is now open. One day camps available for both Dallas Cowboys Football Academy and Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders Dance Academy here at the Star in Frisco. Spots are limited, so

registered today at Dallas Cowboys dot com slash Academy. We were talking sacks earlier. That nineteen eighty six season, Danny White had a He was leading the league in passing the first six starts of the season. He was only sacked ten times in those six starts. He didn't suffered a season ending injury, and then Steve Puller took over and the rest, as they say, is history. In the final nine starts of the season, Steve Puluer was sacked a total of forty seven times. That's five times a game.

That is a rate of what would be eighty four sacks for a sixteen game season. And that's why that season went downhill in a hurry. Danny White missed the game, he didn't get to start the first eight. He missed the Denver game, and it was a surprise to everybody here. We come out and Steve Pelluer's got a start. Well,

what happened to Danny White? Well, they were running sprints during the walkthrough on Saturday before they left, and they were practicing special teams and Danny White was running down to get some conditioning in and he pulls a hamstring. So how much did he play in that game? He did not start against Denver, okay, because he had seven games, six starts. So my point is if he played significantly in that game. He missed two starts, okay, in the first eight okay, and then that was the ninth game

and he got knocked out. I want to say it was the third quarter. Okay. Yeah, all right, let's go to Joe in Annapolis. You're next up here on Talking Cowboys. Joe Gifts. Jensen's an honor to share the line with you guys, A huge fan of the listening for a long time. Um, I got a couple of things and

then a question for all you guys. So the one in the beginning of the season, all my avvy Cowboys fans called me crazy for predicting this team to go to the NFC title game, predicted them to go that way because it seems to be when Edward oh No fired he surprises us in some kind of way. So I still hold onto my prediction that they will make it to the title game. And the second thing I wanted to say is, I don't understand why the idea of fifty five coming off the field is a good

idea for any kind of notation. I was in Tenants as the game and land over here in Maryland, and when he was off the field, there were a couple of minus tackles and the Redskins scored their only offensive touchdown of the game, and we were all in the stands wondering why the heck was number fifty five off of the field when he has been the team's the best tackler off season, and we're going off in history, why didn't Tony Romo get his shot back? Shan Lee has not been shan Lee of the old He has

not been playing at that level. Layton Vanderish has been playing better than shan Lee. And the last thing I will say is has anyone ever asked Dak Prescott about wearing any kind of like hand gloves or anything like that, because he seemed to be clumsy with the football from time to time. And I appreciate all you guys and I will hang up and listen. He needs some stick them right, needs to see Fred yeah back in the day, or who was the dB that had it, Lustra Hayes,

Buster Hayes. Not only all over his hands, is everywhere? Number thirty seven, he had all over his number and stuff to cut it down his jersey so he could wipe his hands and get some more. Shaun Lee not playing well, I know about play well. We all kind of cringed when we saw that, right, Shaun Lee's been hurt. Let's let's be honest there. I mean, I'm not honest. That's that's fact. Make you got those stats over there, Well he's got he's got thirty five tackles, and I

bet he's only played five games. Maybe yeah, you know, and I nobody, nobody appreciates what Layton Vanderass done more than me. I know everybody in this room appreciates Layton Vanderish learning curve very small. He's come in, he's played with instincts, he's been physical, he's tackled. I mean, he's done all things. Intercepted passes, you know he did. He's doing things that when Shaun Lee was healthy. Shawn Lee and I get it, folks, Shaun Lee's not the same

Shawn Lee. But I still think. I still think having options where guys that can make tackles and Sean Lee can make tackles, Sean Lee can make instinctual plays, Shaun Lee can create turnovers. That's why I wanted to play against Philadelphia because I've always those games against Philade. He's always made plays against these guys. Play four games and seventeen snaps in the fifth. Yeah, and he's got thirty five tackles. Yeah, so I trust tells me that's nine

tackles a game. Yeah, I don't. I don't want to. I'm not trying to, you know, beat beat the caller down. I'm not. But I give me as many of those guys that I can get get and if it, if it's taken Laton, you know, Layton Vandersch. I mean, hey, the first Washington game, I'm surprised that the game it was in Landover. I thought that was one of his worst games, to be honest with you, you know, I mean he didn't get off blocksworth a damn in that game.

You know which game? The game that the Washington game in Landover. I mean, that was not a great game for him, but if you watched by his standards, what we've seen nearly wasn't either. Yeah. So I mean, you know, Layton Vanderish love totally get it, totally get it. You know, been a great draft pick for this team, and it's been in a great addition to this team as far as playing. But Sean Lee, you know, let's be real

careful about throwing dirt on him. Yeah, and look, fancye the future and it's exciting and it's the present right now too. But it's not the I think the caller mentioned Romo. It's not the same situation. This is not sitting Vanderesh down for zero snaps and having him hold a clipboard. I only had twenty one snapped in the Washington game. Yeah, there is nothing wrong with adding a guy who's been an All Pro in this league into a rotation that can't do anything but hurt help your group,

not hurt your group. Yeah. I don't disagree. I don't see I don't see the downside of it. Give me as many yeah, right, give me as many players. It's like, you know, the guys can make plays. Let's see this defense with christ Shard and Rod Mirnelli has shown they've come up with some creative things to do. I mean, you know they play and think. Okay, think about this overall, David Irving, what have we got? What have you got from David Irving? So far? Like a two games? Nothing?

Just will say nothing? Okay, what have you got from Taco? Really nothing? You am? I am I wrong about this? Really nothing? I mean he was a starter early, but what if he overall nothing? How about? How about what have you got from Randy Gregor? Thanks for proof for me this defense? I just named three guys that you would say, how I need something from these guys, you know, but you guys got you got guys like Ross and

the Human log and and read. You know, these guys are making play Collins MALIEK Collins, Yeah, making plays, playing through stuff too. Yes, So Taco finally put a jersey on. Yeah? Got four snaps? Four snaps? Yeah? Four? See that's something saying. You know, this defense is playing well, you know with But give me I need more, guys, I mean more, give me Seawan Lee out there. I wish David. I wish David Irving was out there playing, you know, but

he's not. Wish Taco was playing better, you know, but I may he's not. Speaking of Sean Lee. A note in my column that got delayed getting put up yesterday. Yesterday was the eight year anniversary of his breakout game in Indiana. Indiana. Yes, nine tackles and two interceptions of Peyton Manning and one return thirty five yards for a touch at the end of the game. It was that that was early It was early second when, Yeah, this had brought him back that thing. Yeah, eight years ago.

Eight there was twenty ten ye rookie season. Yeah, and he really had fourteen years old back then. Probably. Let me just say this, if Sean Lee goes out there and flops around and doesn't do his job, Sean Lee will be the first one to admit he doesn't have it. And I'm not ready, but I'm not ready that I shouldn't be on the field. Shaun Lee is not gonna sit there. Why is this such a and but well the hot topic because again they see a guy they think Manoresh's fans think he's gonna be in all pro

any any any made one day. And he might be a pro bowler this year, who knows. But by the way, also Shawn Lee didn't practice yesterday. No, that's that's not good. It's gonna play. I mean, this is a discussion that probably could carry over to next week. Oh sure, but brought up about Shawn Lee. Yeah, you know, and and I I understand. I understand folks passion for Layton Vanderish and Jalen Smith. You know, I get it. They're they're

playing great. Every time we do a post game show, it's ten tackles, nine tackles, Yeah, twelve tackles, eleven tackles. I mean, these two guys are playing really, but you don't want to add it. Maybe a nine tackle guy to all this too, you know, another guy that could potentially get you. I mean, I don't quite get that. People get hung up on the starting stigma. It's just different than quarterback. You can't make the same comparison. You know,

Romo never played another snap until Phil was decided. Yeah, yeah, it's different. Different. Nineteen eighty nine, they were down the tubes already, and Jimmy decided that it was time to start Tony Tilbert at defensive end. We're looking for next year, right, And who was playing there? Ed two tall Jones. Yeah, and he was gonna get benched and his starting streak was gonna end. And you never seen more fear in the media about how can you do this to Ed?

Two Tall, Jones, Data Da Jimmy finally threw up his hands, he goes, okay, Ed'll start. I think he played the first series that Tilbert would played the wrist and it was like, what's the you know? And Ed was he was embarrassed by it. Yeah, it was like he knew he was done. Yeah, Shan Lee will be the same way.

If he gets down to the point where Shaun Lee doesn't make a range play or missus a tacklin space, or doesn't cover line cover running back out of the backfield, Shaun Lee will be the first one to tell Layton vanderish you go play today. I mean, he's got a lot of pride and all that, but Shaun Lee's a team player. He's done nothing but trying to help. And Layton Vanders said that yesterday so much in the locker room, told us he's a big brother to me. I feel

I've known him my whole life. That's how supportive Sean has been to Layton so far this year. Absolutely, Sean Lee understands trying to win. He knows he I bet you he knows what the situation is. I'll guarantee you that he knows what the situation is. If the Cowboys ever had a player coach layer coach, a player, a player who Alslow was on the coaching staff like Dane want to, Dan was, Yeah, I think Shan Lee is

heading for that role. Yeah, I mean he's basically coaching now. Yeah, but I think Sean I wouldn't be surprised if we have a situation where Shaan Lee is a player coach. Well, he's gonna be a coach. He's that Northwestern guy. You know who the head coaching Northwest Kennedy Page, Pat fitz Gerald. He's Pat Fitzgerald. If Shaun Lee gets the coaching, he will become Pat Fitzgerald. He'll go someplace. Team will be prepared, they'll be tough, they'll they'll have they'll have high quality kids.

He will make sure a program. He's Pat Fitzgerald if he coaches. All right, you know who else in the state has their eyes open for? Yeah? Why not John Lee? You know who else did it? Oh? Jerry Tubbs, Yeah, Jerry Tubbs, that's right. Nineteen sixty that's sixty, yeah, exactly. All right. We will talk at you again tomorrow here on Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.