Talkin' Cowboys: How Good is This Defense?

Rob Phillips, Brian brought us in. Mickey Spagnola and why I said, right off the top, we are living the American dream. Because just moments ago I saw one of the workers here at the Marriott River Residence in the River Ridge, and I said, we just said in passing high to each other. I said, how you doing? He said, I'm living the American dream. So I think that's the attitude all of us should have today. I thought you were wearing your Oklahoma No, no, no, that's this just

came up in the rotation. Yeah it's this. It's this. Of the ten outfits you have out here, this is disnumber one or disnumber three. Whatever we wear today, Well, I did laundry on Monday. We're back around in the rotation. Good, this is number two in the rotations. It's a little large for me, so I have to tuck it in. So working working out, you're doing that, well, it's just

too long. Okay. It's like I wearing a dress, so you got to tuck it in instead of what we normally do out here is people have untucked shirts right absolutely out. Nightmare. I don't think my deals working here. Oh you can you hear your head? So I can't hear. Here's what you do. Here's a professional broad already. Okay, do you do that with your all right? I was kind of wait to the break, Mickey, But that's okay. Mine's the American nightmare. And by the way, Mickey has

made amends with the leaf blower out here. It's a new one. It's a new one. It's a different different guy. I might have got him fired. I don't know, but this guy at least asked. He goes, now, what time do you start? I said nine o'clock. He goes, I'll be done by then. It's like all right. And by the way, the leaf blower affected the Jason Garrett press conference. Was it yesterday? Yeah? I was yesterday yesterday. You want

to know if anybody knew the leaf blower? And I looked over at Mickey and the press conference and he was like doing this like nod. Yeah, yeah, he's had his own d leagues with him. As we get the headset corrected here, how is that? Was everybody doing well? I'm not supposed to say, how's everybody doing? Okay, this is practice number six today, how's this team doing out here? I'll tell you what yesterday. Defensively, the team did very well.

I thought that if you were if you were scoring the practice the way the defense came out, and I think a lot of it started with the stuff that they were doing with the two on two, with the defensive backs working against the receivers, you know, and then all of a sudden, now you get a couple of stops, you get a couple of nice plays, you knock the ball away. Chris Richard is you know, now the coach is involved. The coaches The coaches like, now he's all

over the receivers. And so I've never seen a coach I wrote to some of my notes, it's up on Dallas Cowboys dot Com today. I've never seen a coach get after the other like the the offense or the defense the way the challenging. Yeah, he it wasn't like challenge him and it was like he was willing to go out and fight those And I can only imagine if Golly does Bright or somebody was here been Oh, that would have been a lot of fun. But there was a lot of energy with the practice, a lot

of energy from the defensive side of the ball. We saw turnovers, they work on that all time, Layton vanderesh ripping one out there, so you know, interceptions, We've seen kind of all kinds of things from this defense, some good, some bad. But yes, I thought the majority it was pretty good. Did you see the way justin March Lillard finished off that race to the end. Yeah, as he's going to beat the coach, he's weaving through the one

on one offensive. I was watching the pass rush one on one over there, and then all of a sudden, here comes a guy flashing down there. I think he did a flip into the end zone. Yeah, but you know what, that's what you need after a day off, Yeah, because you get out of your routine, you get a little relaxed and you gotta juice people up. Yeah, and I think that might have been somewhat what was behind the emotion. But it was good. It's a training camp, let's go. I think it's what you need for the

entire camp. In practice. You got so many new faces, you got so many young guys, and I think we probably asked the question day one, like who you mentioned Dez? Who replaces Dez's intensity? Yeah, I think it's a coach. I think it's Chris Richard, honestly, And uh, well that's good. I think we're still I think we're already seeing the DB's feed off of what he does. Um, they love

him already. Confidence. Yeah, that's something you know. Usually you see a guy like Byron Jones, who's usually pretty you know, he could play pretty reserved. I mean he gives you the incomplete when he knocks away a matter of fact, he had, you know, makes us continue to make plays here in this camp. But he he was They were they were going back and forth. Lance Lenore and Jordan Lewis were getting into it, and Jordan Lewis tried to jump in there and get Lewis. We'll get into it,

and that's what I'm saying. And then all of a sudden, you know, Chris Richard's like, you get out of there. You don't run these drills. Somebody else get in there, you know. I mean, he was like he he wants somebody else to get a piece, you know, And he was yelling at Jorge, he was yelling at Lanceloor like

you don't want us, you don't want us. And I was like, oh gosh, I mean this is but that's but that's I think, like, you know, we're all talking about here, the energy level at practice, like Mickey said too, especially after a day off, you know. And the thing about Jason Garrett, he grew up in a system here like when they when Mickey you guys were covering the team in Austin, there was a lot of that. There

was a lot of going back and forth. There was a lot of competitive So he's gonna let things go. He's gonna he's gonna let the jawing go, he's gonna let the physical play. You know. He's not quick to jump in there and break it up. He's letting guys go at it and be competitive. And I think that's that's something like Rob said, it's good to see actually

secretly he's smiling. And how about those days you used to cover like the joint scrimmages with the Raiders and you know, Al Davis is like, okay, we've had enough, pull them back, you know, and Jimmy's got his pomp pomp, come on, you're doing it. But that's I think that's I think you have to have that. Now. I'm not seeing you go out in cheap shot guys in camp and stuff like that. But if you're if it's if it's guys rallying for each other, you know, that's a

good thing. And as Chris Rashard said after practice, it's iron sharpening iron. It's it's your challenging the offense and the and vice versa. The offense challenges the defense, and that's how the whole team gets better. Yeah. I think by tomorrow will have a good one. Yeah, we'll have one of those firefights, you know, dash fights of francs. Yeah, all right, before we get started off, by the way, we're going to talk a lot about the defense over

the course of the next hour and yesterday's practice. But before we jump into everything, of course, you can join US at nine seven two four nine seven forty four hundred will take your phone calls. But we also want to remind you the Blue White Scrimmage is on Sunday. There will be appearances and autographs from Rowdy, the official

mascot of the Cowboys. There's also a youth combine for ages six through sixteen, offering skills and drills with coaching from former NFL players, authentic and limited edition Dallas Cowboys merchandise for the whole family. So if you're in the area, make sure you come out on Sunday and really every day out here. It's a great it's a free experience, free of charge, and it's a great opportunity to get up close with the these Cowboys players and be a part of it. But Sunday is the is the annual

Blue White Scrimmage. A lot of it will look like a regular practice. They'll have a scrimmage though at the end it's gonna be televised right here on Dallas Cowboys dot com and on t XA twenty one in Dallas Fort Worth as well. Yeah, and again to reiterate your point, though, Bill, come on out and see because the intensity has you know, through one week, there's a lot of kind of feeling some things out it. And now you know players know

this too. You know, you start running out of practices, you know, you start running out of Okay, I've got a game next week, and these games are gonna start coming from a Yeah, games are just gonna start coming fast. And the next thing you know, it's gonna be September one and they're gonna have a cutdown. So the sense of urgency for the players, yeah, for the guys that are on the fifty three man roster, you think that's gonna be. But there's some guys are battling for spots

that are trying to get noticed here. So it's good if you can to come out and see, Okay, who who's making that that that rise up? You know, I mentioned Dorian Armstrong in my notes, guys that you know he's drafted, but you know they're trying to figure out some things, and you know, those are the types of guys you want to come out and see and before they have a before we have a chance to get

out of here. And it's seventy degrees. That works, it is, but it's kind of hot, man, There wasn't there was no marine layer yesterday, and that kind of gets guys going a little bit. When it's hot, it gets fiery. You got Christopher Shard out there yelled at people. But from your band's perspective, more often than not, there is a marine layer in that afternoon practice. And it's very pleasant, yeah,

very pleasant to watch practice. And uh and in an added treat on that day, in particular on Sunday, and by the way, practice starts a Pacific time at four o'clock, six o'clock, uh, central time, would you say, though, that the defense won practice yesterday? Absolutely? Yes. I thought that it was about time by the way they started making plays. And then the funny thing is the first question, uh

this morning, people start asking, oh, so's Dak struggling? And then it's like that's the problem when you when you say that either side one practice yesterday, well that means something must be wrong with the other side, you know. And and I think you know it helps that um you have um DeMarcus Lawrence on the field a little bit with the first teams and so you know, and I thought Chris Rahshard made a good comment and he goes, we we were almost done with our installation so it's

not new stuff all the time. It's executing. It's executing now because you've been you've been doing this. Uh And and I think the other thing is that, um so the offense starts working on stuff too, right, because a lot of what they were doing yesterid there was a lot of blitzing going on with the linebackers. And I think the guys when I was on the fan noticed that the quarterbacks were running a little bit more and it looked like design runs. I don't know if they

were broken play. Yeah, but a lot of times if you're blitzing like that up the middle, then the quarterback is gonna go, okay, I'm going outside. Got off. Yeah, Mickey makes a really good point. There are doing the installation stuff. Has been a lot about some of the blitzing some of the games, some of the twist I mentioned arms Strong about him a lot of guys getting involved playing on the left side. Now, I'll tell you something else they didn't. I think you guys probably noticed this.

Played a lot of zone coverage yesterday, and so what the ball kept getting checked down, check down, check down, and you know, and that's and you know, the quarterbacks are taught too. If they don't read, if they're playing, if they're dropping aid or drop it set whatever they're dropping, Okay,

that's the that's the throw. That's the throw. And it kind of probably became a little frustrating watching practice because the ball is going to the back, the balls going with the tight end, the ball is going to everything's going underneath. But that I thought that I thought they played.

It's really one of the first times I've seen him play extensive zone coverage where a Woozier was instead of being up on or Byron Jones being up on, they were board a side retreat mode, trying to funnel everything into the middle of the field, and it just forced Prescott not to throw the ball when he tried to throw the ball down the field. They had good coverage along the sidelines, safety over the top, so they were

doing what they needed to do on defense. If that's if they're planning yesterday was work on zone coverage to keep everything in front of him. Well executed yesterday. To that point, I thought, we saw what Layton vander esh can do covering. He was the way he can drop and move for a guy his size, He got a he got his hand on a ball I think stripped the ball intercept. That was a blake. Yeah, it was

on Blake. John ripped the ball out his left hand. Yeah. Then, by the way, is a tight end a receiver in a tight ends body. I mean, that's impressive to cover him down the sideline, forced a turnover. Basically, he's he's very instinctive back there, and I think we saw what they can what they're hoping from him in terms of

coverage from that middle linebacker spot for sure. Well, the other thing that they I think I saw and correct me if I'm wrong, but they were running some three man line Yeah, and vander esh was in there with the first group, right, So that's the first time I think we've seen that, Yeah, because normally he's been the second group. Wondering any any of you wondering what kind of opportunity the first round draft pick is going to have to get on the field this season. Uh, he's

gonna be out there. Yeah, he may not walk out there with the starters at middle linebacker day one, but they're going to create a role for him that that he fits in. You know the other thing about Brian, you were talking about the checkdowns, yeah, so what has Eerie been at? Well, can they throw the ball to zeke Moore? Yeah, then they start throwing the ball at zeke Moore. It's like, well why can't Yeah, this is

no way. I look at this as Dak Prescott doing what he needed to do to get the ball in his hand at least give his chance to get another play. I applaud christ Raschard and Ride Marinelli for saying, Okay, we're gonna work on our own coverage today and then we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, I use this term, and like I would see Claude, we're gonna claud and cover is what we're gonna do. And they

did a nice job of that. I mean Prescott, you could see him on his progressions looking He's like, okay, I can't throw that one. I can't throw that one. But then when he tried to throw that one, they were a good shape defensively. They were a good shape to make plays and knock passes down. And I'd like to see the defense be able to do that. I really really do. But the other thing, sorry, Bill, the other thing I thought you saw was these bigger corners

the impact they can have, particularly on smaller receivers. Saw Cheeto make two pass breakups in a single series against Beasley anti Tavon Austin. And that's a situation where you know, you want to put these smaller guys on the outside, and they're smaller and they're quicker, but as Sanjelao told us after practice, make there are situations where if they can, if you allow them to jam you, then then you

can be intros. And that's that's what happened and Cheeto and we're seeing Byron Jones to use his frame and his link to disrupt guys at the line of scrimmage. It's exactly good point. They try to throw a ball to Thompson down the left sideline there and Thompson's been separating from people pretty well and Byron Jones says, no, you're not not. This time, you're not. It was right hand, left hand, right hand, and the next you know, Dak's like, I'm gonna throw it anyway to see if Thompson didn't

get his hands up. I mean, he was beaten up on the line so badly by Byron Jones. It affected the way the play ended up. But the execution of the play. So again, tip of the hat to the secondary yesterday. They've had I think they've had a little bit of some some times where they haven't looked as good. I mean, we've talked about these receivers quite a bit that they've been pretty consistent. Yeah, Chris Rashard, he grabbed him all by the neck yesterday and drug him with him.

I was at the far end of the field on Anthony Brown's pick. What happened on that offside? Okay, what a great read though, if you're talking about vision in relation to where the receiver and where the past. Prescott took the shot to try and get it out there on an off side situation. He got him with a hard count. Flagg goes out, he's gonna throw it anyway. But great break on the ball underneath by Anthony Brown, you know, and some of the covers were talking about

actually happened in the seven on seven drill too. Yeah. Still there's no rush, right, So it was it was coverage. It was coverage, and you know there was one play where they tried to run uh tops and deep. What built I mean, what Brian said about his speed and a Woozier was with him, and Woods was with him, and and Dak had no place to throw the ball. Uh, and he ended up overthrowing him. But it was because they had him covered. So you know, it was a good day for them. And as I said, it was

about time. Yeah, you know, and from a fan perspective and also from a TV guy's perspective who is just looking for a couple of highlights to put on the ten o'clock news that night, it came across as a bland practice because there were no big place from the offense highlight all that defense. So but we did highlight the defense. What we showed was Cheeto with two pass

breakups and the two plays plays. Talking about there and and I'm really excited to see a Wougier this season, and and just seeing his second year, and we saw it at the end of last year. We saw a glimpse there. But playing that left cornerback position, it's such a key you saying it, Yeah, And uh, it's gonna be really fun to watch his progress. This just needs to live up to number twenty four over there, that's right,

And he's wearing number twenty four. And I've talked to him about his knowledge of Everson Walls and uh, he's he's learning about Everson. He's learning. We gotta we gotta get him together. We win you to get back to Dallas, Everson. We gotta have a meeting of the twenty fours. That that won't be difficult. Yeah, that's right. Everson would jump in there, and I don't remind him there was all to a Super Bowl MVP. Yeah, not bad Sope, we're

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and turf equipment of the Dallas Cowboys. Find Texas sized deals in my John Dear Dealer dot com slash flipball Terms, conditions, exclusions, we warranty limitations apply. See can you love for details. Back to talking Cowboys. We're talking cowboys on a Wednesday morning here in Oxnard, California is the Cowboys will be out on the practice field for a walkthrough in about an hour from now. Practice this afternoon four o'clock Pacific time.

Practice number six overall number four in pads. Today. They practice again tomorrow. They players are off on Friday as far as practice is concerned, and then a practice Saturday, four o'clock in the afternoon. Sunday four o'clock in the afternoon. That's the Blue White scrimmage Monday afternoon at four and

eleven am. Practice on Tuesday, and then head up the road to San Francisco or Santa Clara or Santa Santa Clara is where that stadium is in the week from tomorrow first preseason game, actually the Hall of Fame games tomorrow night. That's right, that's right, the Thursday night. Oh, everything's working. I can hear myself here, you guys, Oh good, and everybody could hear me? Oh golly before bears in the Ravens tomorrow night. Yes, Sarah's yeah, yeah. And Hall

of Fame induction ceremonies this weekend. And speaking of that, we were speaking a Cheeto a moment ago. One of the guys he looked up to growing up was Brian Dawkins. He's going into the Hall of Fame this weekend, Brian Dawkins. And I hate talking about a Philadelphia Eagle here on talking Cowboys, but Cheeto says he really studied Brian Dawkins,

and there's a parallel between Cheeto and Brian Dawkins. Dawkins is the only player in NFL history to have twenty five or more interceptions, force fumbles, and sacks in his career, right, and if you look at Cheeto's resume at the University of Colorado and heption sacks, force bumbles, they were they were up there. I was with Brian Dawkins in Philadelphia in nineteen ninety eight and actually ninety seventh season, and and if is one of my favorite players I've ever

been with, well is Darren Woodson. And what Darren Woodson means the Dallas Cowboys, Brian Dawkins means to the Philadelphia Eagles. And he was a he was a professional. He was he was accountable, he was a great teammate. People looked up to him. I really enjoyed being a part of a staff where he was on it. We didn't have a lot of great players, you know, we had, but

Brian Dawkins was one of those guys. I have always admired his his toughness, and you know that there's certain players in this league that did things the right way, played the right way. Brian Dawkins very deservingly to be in the Hall of Fame. But you know, but I'm sad to this point. Then it's not Darren Woodson, that's just maybe Dawkins getting in. I hope, hope, okay, because they both they both had very in my opinion, if you look at the type of careers, here's one guy

who was a Super Bowl, super Bowl winning safety. You know, he meant so much to Dallas cow was in Brian Dawkins to what he did from Philly. I was just hopeful that Darren Woodson would be able to get in before Brian Dawkins. But I you know what I have no I have no ill will towards Dawkins getting in because I think he was outstanding in his own right

in Philadelphia. It's one of those things. Safety's a position, and you know, Mick, there aren't a lot of Hall of famers from that position that get in, And I think, what's what'son certainly deserving. At some point you're gonna have Ed Reid coming up eligible and Troy Paulamalu and those guys. But man, yeah, you look at what Darren meant and what he still means when you think about Look, they're still looking for a big time center field free safety

to help this team. Has there been a guy since Darren Woodson in two thousand and three that's done it for him? And that shows you his value right there. If if Brian Dawkins is in the Hall of Fame, then wood He's in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, John Lynch has been a finalist I think as well recently.

Please I agree. I mean I stayed in facts. No, I know, if you if you had me, if you asked me to rank them though, of the three of the guys we just mentioned Woodson, Dawkins, Lynch, but then you look at the guys, like you said, Ed Reid, Yeah, you know, Ed Reid changed the game the way he played, you know, with the free the free safety, the way you know, he was able to roam around and play

and coverage and stuff like that. Well, the thing of it with Dawkins is he had those stats and yeah you know, and yeah, uh like tackles, well, no, like what I mentioned about the sacks, interceptions, seven interceptions, thirty six sports bumbles twenty six got those rings though, you know, yeah, and and fifty seven interceptions anything exactly exactly a lot of a lot of a lot of mistakes in the National in the Hall of Fame, I think I think, just real quick, I will say this, I think that

there's guy's like Rick Goslin who was on the committee, the veteran Committian stuff. There's a lot of things that those guys are having to try and correct. You can't take a Hall of Fame away from a guy. But I think the guys like Goslin and them are trying to do a better job of guys that you're mentioned, the Everson Walls of the world, that that people are overlooking. That he's not letting that dream die. He didn't let the dream die for Jerry Kramer, you know, I mean

Jerry Kramer. I mean it was goodness gracious, you know, forever. So so I'm saying Rayfield right, it's another one. He didn't let the dream die for Rayfield, right, Or Bob Hayes. Here's a guy from him Detroit, Michigan. You know, Rick Goslin, and he's fighting for Dallas Cowboy players. But it's very, very difficult. It's because you mentioned there's such a great class coming up. But he's trying to get these guys, these senior members that have been talked about for years

and years and years. He's trying to bring them to the forefront and the biggest problem is to keep going. Here's mc bryan rant the biggest problem with the voters of the Hall of Fame, in my opinion, is they didn't see a lot of these guys play. We've all

seen these guys play. We've all seen now, Rob, I know you're a younger guy, but we've all in our career, in our lives seen some of these veteran guys play, and we know what type of player there, and you're like, how can he not be in the Hall of Fame. We read Jerry Kramer's book, Yeah, yeah, that's saying yeah, yeah, see, but that's what I'm saying, though, those these guys are the pillars of the National Football League and so and ever since last year was last year, right, wasn't it.

I don't know? Yeah, And that Walls being that old, well he's my age, but that's that's that's but that's does have a gray hair. That's the thing about it is, though, you do have people in Canton that are willing to fight for these guys and not let that dream Mcteingelhoff. I mean, there's guys that played back in the sixties and the seventies that my favorite football and they center from the Minnesota Vikings, and so what happens is you you know, you don't. You don't lose that dream. You

don't lose that because again, we the voters and this thing. Oh, I didn't see. I didn't see mc tingelhall play. I didn't see. You know, we don't have enough of that of guys standing up and or ladies for the other thing of the game of football has changed over the years too, and those stats are different now than what they were, and too many people that vote are antal all they look at his stats. There you go. I

was wondering where you're going with that. All right, Yeah, there you go, Ray, and for Worth, you're first up. You're the late off hitter on Talking Cowboys. Hello Ray, Hello everyone. Uh. I don't just want to follow up on Darren Witson. I think he deserves it, but I want to know one is gonna get in a ring of honor because I a writer. They d he's in, He's in during Woodson's in. Okay, I'm sorry because I'm looking on this list on the website now I don't

see still in Dallas Coways dot comment. I thought maybe you were talking about Everson Walls because he is not in there, and he deserved it too, but everybody just seeing the catch, I guess, and but okay, my question, I have a question. I've just been a while this The theme of this season has been like Dak friendly. So now with all the changes, with days going on,

and I don't want to go into that. Um, I think this is a critical term for him because you're time's coming when you're gonna have to make a decision on the contract and whether or not he's worth franchise money. And I'm not talking about Aaron Rodgers franchise money because that's ridiculous. I'm thinking more along the lines of at least Garoppolo. So I think I think this is a

critical time. And I know, Mickey you mentioned this team has been thirteen and three in such and such, But at what time does under Garrett or whoever, does the playoffs matter? Because we haven't had much success in the playoffs. I don't think Garrett's going anywhere because Jerry alluded to it. I think in the opening press conference he's the guy that get Jerry to fish Jerry, But at what point do we have to take that next step to be successful in the playoffs, because it can't always just be

about the regular season. I am excited though with all these changes. The thing I'm most excited to see up from a defensive standpoint, is seeing Van Deresh and Lee on the field at the same time. Thanks, all right, right, we appreciate it. Um, where do you want to go? I mean he said it. You know, this is this is Dak's big opportunity. He's eligible for an extension after

this season, and Stephen Jones has said it. I mean, you know, if they have if he has a great season, the Cowboys are probably gonna have a great season, and they have no problem paying him a core le based on a certain level of performance. And they've they've already budgeted that, They've looked down the road. It's certain, you know, cap structure and what they'd have to do to accommodate something like that. But you know, yeah, it's a big year for him. It's a huge opportunity for him and

the whole teams. Yeah, you're right, it's a big year for everybody involved, especially you know, the quarterback, the head coach. I mean, if you have a situation where you don't have success, you know, they've this front office has shown they're willing to make changes. You know, Jason Witten did retire, but you know, they got rid of Dez Bryant, They've moved on, They've they you know in that and you're thinking, man,

they might not ever do that. So I do think that this front office is willing to make changes if things are not successful. You know, My hope is I don't want to cover a football team that's not good. I mean, that's that's the selfish side of me right now. And I don't like to see people lose their job. But if if it comes down to performance, then you know, we'll see. But there's a lot of pressure and it was one of our twenty questions on dallascotways dot Com.

More pressure on Garrett or on Prescott, you know, and I think both everybody kind of win a different direction there because Dak's trying to get a deal, Jason Garrett's trying to keep his job. I think that's those are things that are very motivating for two guys right there. And then you're looking at such a young roster, Yeah, which makes this season so intriguing how this young roster develops and very quickly because they want to win now

they have to with a young roster. They have to. Yeah, right, they have to and uh so uh and then as far as Vanderesh and Sean Lee playing side by side, we're going to see that. Yeah, we are going to see that. Butt're all going to see Jalen Smith playing too. You know, I don't think that. I don't think you know, it's gonna be you know, find a way to get those guys on the field, whatever it takes to get you know, Jalen Smith is worked in a way in a manner that I feel like he deserves that. It

doesn't it doesn't. He doesn't deserve just because they drafted Layton vandersh nineteenth overall to lose his job. I mean, if Layton Vanish is good enough to do it, then we've seen some really good things from Jalen Smith out here. You know, I've seen some things coverage wise. They've been I didn't think he could do. But oh you can still. Oh there, Um, just he just goes. I know, I don't know if you could hear me, if I can't hear myself, if I can't, Okay, all right. As a

matter of fact, he was star b yesterday. Sure I had to decide between a Woozier and Jalen Smith. Because I thought he had a really good day, a really good day in coverage. Uh, he was, he was mobile, activing. Yeah, I thought he had an excellent day. That was the best one I saw from him too. By the way, Yeah, that's gonna be fun if and we've seen it out here. Uh, if Jalen Smith is playing like the college Jalen Smith,

that's gonna be fun to watch. If he plays like college Jalen Smith, they really stole the guy, you know. I think that I think that you were ways away from that right now. But but it's working, as they would say, it's trending in the right direction for him. Okay, let's just let's take the take the physical aspect out of how he's moving out of it. Right From a mental standpoint, basically entering his second year as a middle linebacker in this league, what should we expect. I think

he will see things better. I think there were times last year he didn't see and he was in the wrong gap like he was. I don't know if he's guessing he's over here and the ball's over here. And I think when you see things better than you can react a lot quicker and be where you're supposed to be. And I think that's one of the things that we have to keep an eye on here because if you look at it, I mean we pointed it out, they're they're rushing their linebackers a lot more, even against the run.

It seems like I don't know if this was a Chris Roshard influence or what, but that's the most I've seen linebackers just going forward all the time. The other part of that, Mick is is they readily admit they played him more than they wanted to thrown in Yeah, probably out of necessity and as much football as he

had missed, yeah with the injury. UM. I don't know if exposes the right word, but there's more chant times where he's he might not see things as well as a basically a rookie linebacker on the field, and I think with more experience he's I think you see it here. I think you see him diagnosed plays out here and you're not tackling, but you can see that he's making

the right decision. Where he's gonna have to improve is the coverage aspect, and maybe they're gonna take that away from him and make him a blitzer, and I mean that in respect. I don't mean that as a punishment that he can't cover anybody where Mickey's right though, when he's reading the stuff, hitting the right gap, scraping the right gap, you know, being where he needs to be

to make the tackle. That's been really, really good. And but there's some things coverage aspect wise, where he still has a little bit of trouble where he, like Mickey, he gets distracted. You know, all of a sudden there's a crosser and he's like, I'm gonna jump that route. But then behind him, though, is Blake Jarwin on a post route where he needs or a corner route where he needs to sink a little better, and behind him. So that's experienced. That that's all experience about how to

play in coverage. But you know, it's also being aggressive. It's also wanting to make a play and he's gonna have to. And I think the thing that I worry about him most is the coverage aspect, the downhill player, the tackler, the running to the football. I don't worry about any of that. And the things you like about Layton Vanderesh and the things you worry about him. You can almost flip it, right, Yeah, you can. You can,

you can flip it. You'd say Layton vanderesh and coverage is a much better player than than than than what you had with Jalen Smith. But he doesn't get off blocks like Jalen Smith does. He doesn't play with his hands yet like Jalleenson. Now he could snife through and make plays when guys there, you know, don't block him stuff. But that's that. You're right, you could flip the two and uh and, but you put him together, you'd probably

have a great player. That's why Rod Marinelli is saying, we got three linebackers for two bots and they're all gonna play. Are you might have three three spots? That's what I'm That's my next question. You don't want to put too much on the plate of a young player like a Layton vander Esch and his rookie season, even Jalen Smith going into his third year but second year playing Damien Wilson is going into his contract year. Yeah, let's let's fast forward for a moment a year from now.

Could we see a linebacking corps where they are able to figure out a way or it's obvious the way is there where you could have all three Lee, vander esh and Jalen Smith on the field at the same time. I think that's a great possible. I think it's a great possibility because to me, you know, when you talk about the master plan, Yeah, when you when you talk about Damien Wilson, there's still mistakes out there for a

veteran player. I mean, he run hit factors good, but there's still times out there where you say, oh, he can't do that. You know, you can't run under that block like that. You gotta stay why you know, there's stays you watch him and you say, Okay, that's a mistake. That's a mistake of veteran guys shouldn't make What I what I what I propose is gonna happen is they're gonna be willing to live with mistakes from Jalen Smith

as opposed to mistakes from Damien Wilson. And that's why you're gonna see I think Jalen Smith probably take that job. I mean they're gonna say, okay, you know we were so here from now you could see that, Yeah, is Lee, assuming he's healthy and right, you know, at the will right Vander Esh in the middle and Jalen Smith is

the SAM. Yeah, well they can and they can play him in the SAM at the SAM a little differently than absolutely doesn't have to line up on the line of scrimmage, play off the ball, can play off the ball. But he's got going and he's also you could in the nickel. You could keep him on the field and he can rush the passer. Either play when you play the Giants and you're in nickel the entire game, who's on the field for you at linebacker? We'll see that's now.

It's now you have to figure out, though, do you want to play with Mickey's three man line and have him be the you know, or do you want to do that or do you want to just or you want to keep him on the field and rush for him be the fifth rusher? You know that, I mean there's I mean that means you'd have to take somebody off because you got the nickel player. But man, it's it's a it's a it's a difficult thing to have to do it. If he becomes such a good rusher,

you immediately have to figure out something that. Okay, who's our better cover guy? Vander Esh or Lee and then now who's our better rusher? But but would you say the reason that they would not implement that now this at lates at the start of this season, is because you don't want to overload mentally, a vander Esh and a Jalen Smith where they're eleven basically one of them, or are Jalen Smith in this case learning two positions and you in the vix I would I would go,

I would be okay. I think Jalen Smith understands what it takes to play mic linebacker. I think the sooner you put him along the line, I think is the better. Okay, because I'm I'm okay to think with watching Vanderish practice, his tongue was dragging a little yesterday, you know, I mean he was running all I mean, that's he's a he's a you know, he's a guy that likes to get to the football. He likes to run to the ball.

He's an athletic guy for a big guy. But he was it was kind of like he's playing a lot of snaps out there, and I was thinking, Okay, he's looking a little you know, but that's good. That's okay. In practice, let these guys go out there and struggle a little bit. But it didn't like he was struggling mentally. You know, usually when you get tired, you struggle mentally. He just might have been a tick. So they threw a ball over the top of him. Uh and in

the drill that that Wells caught. David Wells caught and if if he wasn't tired or kind of you know, war down a little bit. I think he makes that play. He jumps up the near the ball just goes right over the top of his hands. But you know, he's he's got to learn. He's got to learn how to play in coverage. He's gotta learn how to play the run. I mean, I have no problem with throwing him out there, because I think that both Smith and and uh and

and and h Vanderish can learn on the go. I don't I don't see I don't see mental lapses with those guys as players. Now. It might be it might be some awareness sometimes with Jalen, because I can say, you know, you're jumping a route guy behind you, you should have been behind you. But I don't I have no problem with throwing those guys out there and letting them go we're gonna come up with the new formation three three five that exists three down, three linebackers and

five dvs. Yeah, call it TCU. Run that it is a formation that exists. Yeah, I mean it's nicky. Didn't just create that, but that they created that is very That is TCU. Yeah, we're gonna call at the quarter, okay and shout out to Gary Patters so that all right, we continue with talking Cowboys. Give us a call at nine seven two four nine seven forty four will be back in a moment. Best of anything simply won't cut it,

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Do Cowboys? Continues here from ox Star. It's cooling off a little bit here, isn't It isn't like it is, Yes, but we're heating up here on Talking Cowboys. Yeah, that's what he did. Have to get that in and give us a call. Nine seven two four nine seven forty four hundreds. So how good is DeMarcus Lawrence? Wow? What do you think? I think he's very good. And I think we've already we've seen glimpses already this camp. Right,

he looks like he's in a regular season. It's difference between him being on the field and Tuckle Charlton being on the field at the defensive end. Yeah, Tacos fighting to his shoulder and to his credit, he's out there practice and it's not good for him. Right now, I'll say this, how good he was? I I there was a there was a pass rush. I don't know if Bill you were down at one on one pass rusttro right, did you see the rush he had against Lyle Collins

where Collins blocked a little bit on it? Okay, Collins, Collins sets on him. He's coming up the field on Lawrences coming to the field, Collins sets on him and it really hammers him and it kind of knocks him off balance to where he's now kind of reeling and and Collins sees it. And Collins is like, like, you know, blood in the water, he's going for the kill. So he starts after him. Well, Lawrence, that sees what's happening. He ducks, He completely ducks, and Collins goes over the

top of him. And then on the other side here's Lawrence comes up and then heads for the quarterback to get the sack. That's a matrix stuff, right, I mean He's completely off balance and Collins is like, oh, I got you. Now I'm gonna get you, and he makes this incredible ducking move to get under his hands and free himself. He's to get to the ball. It's just a tremendous outer. DeMarcus had injury issues early in his career, sure did, but you know, and Rob Barnelly, I think

was talking about Taco Charlton needs to harden his body. Yeah, how much of it has just been for DeMarcus Lawrence obviously aside from being injury free, but just his body becoming an NFL body. And I mean how far has he progressed since his rookie season. I think. I think what people don't see from him if you're not around him, is how strong he is. Yes, I mean this, This is not your two hundred and fifty pound line slash linebacker defensive end who's all about the pass rush. This

guy will plays. This guy will play the run, and he'll play hard and and and that's I think what's impressive because a lot of his sacks aren't like swift moves. It's effort because he's fighting inside. He didn't mind coming inside. They better be ready for that because he will fight you inside. What we saw last year was that relentlessness that he had on the field, and you can tell just the way he strengthened his body and so forth

he had. I'm sure he has that same kind of relentlessness in the weight room and conditioning and so forth. And that's what's made the huge difference in his career. And that's something at draft time you don't really know about a player, just how hard they're going to work at it. He's also added to his arsenal. He's got into it. He's got an array of different moves, and it goes back to what DeMarcus where he's says, you gotta have a lot of different tools in your toolbox.

And you watch him out here and he's he'll change it up on guys, and you watch these one on one drills and he's he's at a different level than these other day. He's really good at knowing his you know, they always say the first axiom of warfares know the enemy. He knows the enemy, he knows how to attack somebody. If if you're a guy that pays a lot about it, if you if you're a guy that plays soft, he will run you right to the quarterback. I mean last year, I mean we did a tail of the tape with

him broke down that Bill Deer. I think it's how you say that the tackle. Yeah, and he's a soft setter and one of his sacks was he just said, no, you're not good enough. He just took Bill Deer all the way to Carson Palmer and like you know, dumped him on the ground and then you know, captured Carson Palmer. So he has an idea of how to play you. He knows that. Okay, if I'm gonna if you're a heavy, handy guy, I gotta get rid of your hands. I

gotta get to your shoulder. If you're a guy that is a little bit slow on your feet and heavy feet, I gotta get to your corner. I gotta dip you into to the quarterback. But he's got a great field how to end up at the quarterback end position. He's not these guys that you see just keeps running up the field, ring up Philly, just keep washing him, washing and washing him. He's got a plan for how to

be where here to capture the quarterback. Yeah, I thought you were going to say, Carson Nevada, Carson Palmer, all right, Philippe in France, beer on Talking Cowboys. I love all the shows and it's a great fans can call the shows now in Oxnard. Thank you technology, and thank you technology man who are pushing the buttons. All right, thank yeah, yeah, good job him yeah, Bill, welcome back to the show. Well,

thank you. I got a question because of my own schedule, and Judy, I got a hot times as swimming show life or even on the replay because of the summer vacations. My question is who will each one of you or what position will you look at? Will will you give a hard look at during the White Blue Scrimmage and the first preseason game. Thank you for dickin Michael, have a great day byeye all right, thank you very much.

And again a reminder on the Blue White scrimmage, it is at four o'clock specific time on Sunday, free admission to watch. If you're in southern California, get on out here and watch the Cowboys scrimmage on Sunday. And again that Youth Combine for it kids age six to sixteen skills and drills with coaching from former NFL players. What specifically are you going to be looking forward during the Blue White scrimmage on Sunday. I want to see if

these backup quarterbacks can move their team. You know, I think that we're going to get kind of with that what we call the blue period where the veteran guys go to the side, take off their pads and kind of watch and see what's going on. But I'm interested to see where this backup quarterback thing is going to go. You know, I want to see, you know, are the guys, are the gamers pressure all that we kind of have an idea. We've talked about a lot about what Cooper

Rush springs. You know, Mike White made a couple of gain, a couple of good throws, a couple of bad throws. But I'm interested to see this is if you remember, it was a two minute drill with Dak Prescott that kind of got him on the on the map with us. So maybe one of those guys will have a moment they kind of propels them into giving them that you know, that that go that that kind of that momentum that

they need going into that San Francisco game. I think, well, first of all, we need to kind of throw out a disclaimer on a scrimmage because it's just a blue white practice until they get to the end, the end when the young guys go out there and they actually play football, tack them on, put them on the ground.

So the rest of it is basically what we've been watching out here, you know what I actually from a TV perspective and watching it on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and coming out here to practice, you can focus on different positions right right, right right better that way, and from a TV standpoint, it's better than a scrimmage because it gives us an opportunity to focus in on a drill that the you know, the linebackers are doing right now, and it's almost like we pull back the curtain and

they get to see what we see almost every day. So we'll just continue what we talked about yesterday. The defensive tackle position. Yeah, I gotta see it. And I got to see the young guys too. If they have some guys that have a little depth, if they want to roll guys in, you can't roll in just to roll in. You got to be rolling in some quality.

And uh, let's see what's what's what's behind and and and you know it it's hard to judge those guys because what we're looking at right now is is basically pass rush because they're not tackling, right, So, how well with those guys play if they had to put Zeke on the ground. Yeah? Yeah. I asked Jason Garrett about the tackle rotation yesterday and he kind of gave me a general answer about, Hey, it's options, but you tried. I tried, and and look, I mean he's not if

he has concerns, he's not gonna voice him. And he kind of spoke in general terms of hey, there's guys we have. I asked him about joad Ward, Dayton, Jones. I'm going down your list, Brian, I mean, Daniel Ross. There's guys that have an opportunity to show up here in camp and the preseason game. Yeah, so go ahead. Yeah,

it's I remember a blue white scrimmage Bill. I think we were in the in the Power of Top maybe two years ago, three years ago that that that David Irving was in that twenty minute practice period where he was making play after play after they couldn't block him, and you're sitting there going, wow, that's that's something you know, you really haven't seen very much, you know, I mean,

here's the guy. So there is opportunity. There is opportunity. Now, like Micky said, you got to take advantage of the opportunities that you get. Is there somebody that that that is you know, Cape, there is there a better we we Is is Ross a better player than we're giving him credit for? You know? Is uh Lewis Neil a better player than we're giving him credit for right now?

But I just remember being up in that tower with you, and we kept talking about David Ror making play after play after play, and so hopefully they get something like that, whether it's defensive tackle, whether it's a cornerback, whether it's a one of these tight ends where I was going, yeah, yeah, yeah, so what are you looking for? I'm with Mick on defensive tackle rotation. But let's see how these tight ends perform because they all do things different, they all do

things well in a different way sort of. Uh. You know, Blake Jarlin's the guy who can get up the field and separate and be a pass catcher for you. Jeff Swain has kind of rounded out his game the last couple of years. I think he's an underrated pass catcher he's probably got the advantage to start right now. And we haven't seen Schultz the last couple of days because congratulations on absolutely first child, m Enrico. We've seen Rico makes him plays here and there in the passing game.

But he's told me again he's got to work on his blocking. I mean, these guys are gonna get it. They're gonna throw him out there in the games and so you'll see that block and then get ready because it's gonna be the it's gonna be the bow Scarborough Show and the you know, the Williams Show and Jackson Show.

I mean, those those guys are gonna get an opportunity to carry the football and then you know, and see if they you know that, I have a feeling that last twenty minutes will be a lot about trying to be physical, set of tone, See who can tackle, see who can block? And if these quarterbacks can make a throw or two. You know, I just don't always fascinated

with young quarterbacks. That's kind of why my You know, if you get him an opportunity, are the lights gonna you know, you're all the points you guys made of positions and receivers. Yeah, absolutely, right, absolutely right on that, you know, And and and Rob with with the tight ends, I've noticed they they really haven't backed off from lining up too tight end formations. They still even though Witton's

not here. But you know, if if Jarwin can be what they always hope Escobar could be, right, then the two tight end becomes more potent. All right. Here's something though, on a Blake Jarwin and we saw it yesterday, Layton Vanderish yanks the ball out. Yes, can you recall anybody forcing a Jason Witten fumble? I can't, I cannot, I cannot that. But it's such a physical game. He'll learn and you but but no, I'm not saying so much.

It just happened to get But that's what that's what we don't know about these young tight ends is when they get into a game and you got first teamers on the other side, you got Luke Keikley on the other side, okay, and he's ripping the ball, ripping the ball out. Um, that's you don't know until until they get out there. They may look great out here in shorts and and so forth, and and yeah, looks like

getting ready. You're playing against men who was the time there was a rookie tight end with the Giance, just in the last couple of years. I think against the Cowboys that I don't even remember who it was, Evan Ingram, Yeah, yeah, or maybe the one they got It was probably a while. Yeah, I remember the Cowboys yanking the ball out and he said, yeah. I was like, yeah, throw it to that tight end. You know. But that's what you don't know until you're

they're actually playing games, you know. And you know, we shouldn't lose sight of the wide receivers either, you know. They they've got to perform. We've seen them in a lot of different places. We've seen them in a lot of different drills, different drills, creative drills. Okay, fine, now can you take that to the field and produce you know, it sounds nice Beasley and Tavon Austin on the outside. You have two receivers that are bigger on the inside.

But how's that going to work? Yeah? And so you know, when I mean, we watch it in practice, will get a glimpse of it. I think the preseason games will be more revealing than anything else, and maybe more so this year. I don't know if they play those guys more because they got to see, they got to decipher. But who are you playing him with? Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm saying that's that's the question. How do you really get the full value? You could see?

You could see. I have a feeling you're gonna see a lot of of Schultz, you know, playing and this stuff. I have a feeling you're gonna see him in Wells a lot in that you know so well the second half of games for sure. I mean, you know they kind of have an idea what they haven't swing. I say that because at least he's been here the longest. But you know, Darwin does need to play. Jarwin needs

to get out there and play. And then if it means but you know, Schultz and and Rico Gathers, I've almost forgot Rico Gathers there, but those guys all need We need to see if Rico Gathers can take on a wide you know, in a game where all of a sudden they have to get the ball around the corner and he's got to get the he's got to set the edge. We need to see if he can

down block and makes things happen that way. You know, if he can, if he could be the guy the point of attack, because for so many years we he was really underappreciative in my opinion. But what James Hannah can do? You know Hannah when they were everyone talks about right, yeah, Hannah, James Hanna in twenty sixteen when

they were running the ball, he and Witton. When you put you put Smith written and James Hannah on the same side, there were guys that were playing on their feet getting some movement right there, and that allowed Ezekiel a lot of the runs that he was able to give. So if some if one of these backup guys could be similar comparable to James Hannah as a blocker, boy, that would be a huge get for this team. Schultz stands out because of what he did. It's Stanford, Yes,

absolutely he is. There's a guy in Will Disley that went to the Seahawks that is probably the best blocker. And then you get into the mode of the guys like Dalton Schultz. He's the guy that's played more in line tied end than any of these other guys in the draft. I just don't think they can afford to go out in the preseason game and say this is the first preseason game. Okay, the first teamers ten plays in, you're out. Yeah, Well, I think I don't think they

have that luxury. Well, I think with tight ends. Play the tight ends. I mean, which which wide receivers are you going to say? Okay, you're good, get out Beasley? Beasley? No, maybe I'm playing him? Oh yeah, play to play. Ye got to play. I think you get played. Terrence is gonna They're gonna be careful with him, probably just because of coming off the end. He's back first. As long as the first team offensive. Yeah, first, well, I thought you were talking about once the second teams are the

wide receivers. I think they're in. Mickey was going, Mickey's going all the six top six whole game. I mean, who are in the second? Who are the second? By the way, the receivers. Of course, the Cowboys lost Cedric Wilson for the season sixth round pick, but they've been lying in Thompson up with the first when they first three guys, they have Thompson, Yeah, Thompson, Herns, Beasley. Yea. All's been out there with the first year and I think it's time to see a little bit more of

t will Yep. I thought I gotta, I gotta. I got like seven words out of it. Okay, we can't shut Mickey up? Yeah, because I got off to a slow start. All right, Well you'll get more of Mickey tomorrow. Maybe we didn't have Mickey's minute. Yeah. See that's a shame the break He's next, see it, am all. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.