Talkin' Cowboys: How Close To Contention?

it's really only been a week and a half. However, it seems like it's been forever because I haven't gotten to talk to my buddies here on Talking Cowboys, presented by Geico, heck Ma Harrison, Isaiah stand Back, Rob Phillips, I'm Kyle Yeoman's. We are back after a little bit of a break. It was a three day weekend, so we had our weekend and MLK Day and honored him and kind of got through the weekend and then got back into reality on Tuesday. And now it's Wednesday. It's

a Wednesday edition here of Talking Cowboys this offseason. So glad you're with us year on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. And guys, it's like I said about how it feels like it's been forever. It's not only because I missed you, guys, but it's also because storylines have come out like crazy ever since we last recorded. Last time we recorded, we didn't even know for sure who our defensive coordinator was going to be. And now it is, of course, Dan Quinn.

He has been hired as the defensive coordinator. We've got coaches interviewing with the Philadelphia Eagles, And I said coaches. Multiple coaches have interviewed with the Philadelphia Eagles, and we've got a ton of NFL. I mean, Drew Brees may not even be playing football. We know Philip Rivers not playing football anymore since the last time we chatted. But Rob, I mean, there's a ton of storylines to go through.

But which one sticks out to you the most? Well, my favorite storyline is we had all this time off you squeeze in a vacation. Well, hey, Rob, did you get an invite? Did you get an invite? Rap? I did not? Did you? Isa? Heck heck did you? I definitely didn't. I wasn't in on that one. I'll give him this. He kept working, he did the draft show. But he also but he also had a subtle flex

you know. He yes, Kyle, did you call ahead and say can I get a room with a mountain so I can so I can show that off on the Draft Show. No, it was funny though, because we walked right into that. It was a little casita. I mean, it was just like it was basically a clay building with clay floors in like the New Mexico tapestry all the way throughout it. And I walked in and I saw the really big window that faced toward the mountains.

I was like, yeah, that's gonna have to be my backdrop at some point, fell did you guys hear that twins? I heard that Twins of Jalen Smith, he said, Loui Wi was there. Yeah, and it was a it was a clay building, No, bro, it was the four Seasons. Don't lie us. It was not the four Seasons. I guaranteed that one. Uh yeah, no, it was a It was a ton of fun. But yeah, I did. I missed you guys there, And I was thinking about Heckma

the whole time I was on the mountain ski. I was like, man, I miss heck My Harrison the whole time. I could just imagine Heckma trying to ski. I just want to I want that visual more than any I feel like Rob and Isaiah could get it done, but I know way I'm not messing with nature like that. Sorry, nope, yeah, okay, okay, well Rob other storylines up my propty vacation. I'm sorry to throw us off. I had to squeeze it once

got we gotta start with dan Quinn, right, uh. We We strongly hinted at that last week, and it turned out that that that it ultimately was the hire for defensive coordinator. And you know, I think, based on the situation they're in right now, I think it makes sense on a couple fronts. You know, they want to go back to a scheme that they've got more familiarity with, and and you know, it's a bit of a one eighty because they talked last year about how they wanted

a different scheme and they wanted to be more multiple. Well, I think there could be some multiplicity within this scheme, but I think it is largely a four three scheme that players have played in and been familiar with. And we'll see what happens this offseason with the offseason program. There's been there were rumblings from NFL Network yesterday that this might be another virtual offseason program. If that's the case, I think it makes sense to have a veteran hire

at that position. You know, I was saying Marvin Lewis would have been another candidate on my list anyway, along with dan Quinn. A veteran hire that knows how to get his system really across, has been in this position for a few years, and so I think it makes sense for what the Cowboys need to do, and that's that's a quick fix along with upgrading their personnel. Heck ma well, I mean, look, we talked about it at length and about dan Quinn, and obviously now he's our

defensive coordinator. I'm interested to see how all of this goes back to the scheme that we were playing playing two years ago. Personnel wise, we've made some changes. We've gone into the draft and we've drafted guys that were three four guys in our four three guys. You know, there's so much that's gonna go into it, but there are a lot of players that well, a lot of players. There are a few players that we have right now that are going to directly benefit from the hire of

dan Quinn, and one being Tank Lawrence. Just going back to who he was, I thought that it was a mistake to have him in a bicycle position and all of that. I think it just changed his game and you saw him slowly coming into himself as the season progressed, you know, switching sides and doing different things that they had him doing within the defense. But again, to me, there's so many things to unpack with this dan quinn hiring, going back to a system that other guys would let

go of. But again, he's he's our he's our defensive coordinator. We're gonna play at four three, the cover three scheme that he sold uh famous for in Seattle, and hopefully again, guys, we have the personnel fit to get that done. Well, y'all know, y'all know, I'm excited about it. Uh. Coach quinna Is, he's a good dude. I know him. He's UM, he's awesome. I don't know him, know him, but I had him as a coach and he was he's he's a good dude. He's a good dude that I love

his energy. I love the fact that he establishes a culture. He establishes a culture of energetic, young, hungry, determined players UM that play as a team. And I like that. That's one thing I like about him. That's one thing that's consistent about him. I know, we can go back to Atlanta and talk about, you know, the success or lack thereof, uh, you know, but the reality is they had success. They just didn't finish things. Um. And that's

something that's something that's something I gotta fit. They gotta figure out. But look where he took Atlanta from, right, he took Atlanta and gave him an opportunity to win a dog on Super Bowl. So um, not just not to me coaches that they can say that, um, but I'm excited about him. I'm excited about the guys that we had that were inefficient this year on our current roster. I'm excited about their potential future. Guys like Jaylen Smith, the guy that I freaking was hard on this year.

I think he flourishes in a dan Quinn system. You know, I think vander Esche flourish is in the dan Quinn system. You started thinking about guys that that quinns that had an opportunity to work with and the development that they've had. Um, guys like to play for him. So I'm also excited about some of the free agents that are gonna want to come here and play as well. So wait a minute, Wait a minute, let me ask this. So are you saying that, uh, Jaylen can mimic kJ Right? Don't don't

do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. But but what I am gonna say is I'm gonna say this. They will, they have, they have an opportunity. And I don't want to start throwing a bunch of rumors and stuff out there because I don't have that kind of information. But if I'm the exactly, if I'm the GM, if I'm the GM right, which I'm not, but I would take a close look at I would take a close

look at Jalen Smiths contract. I would take a close look at Jallen Smiths contract because if you know Vander esh is gonna be your middle linebacker, kJ Wright is a free agent. kJ Right is familiar with the system that Dan Quinn's gonna run. kJ Wright is not going to get the money that he wants out of Seattle. He's not, um, you know, it's really gonna come down. Does he want to stay there and be loyal? I'm playing with his playing with his dog Bobby, But he's

earned a right to make some money. So if you can move some money around and get a guy who's proven and who understands the system that you're trying to get across, who's a proven leader in this league, then you know, obviously there there's options there. So I think that there's gonna be I say all that to say there's gonna be a good amount of guys who want to come play here in Dallas, not only because it's the Dallas Cowboys, but also because of who's now in

charge of the amount of defense. I like that. I think there is an added element to hiring a guy with the name of dan Quinn and with the resume of dan Quinn. If you went out and hired it maybe a younger defensive coordinator or somebody who hadn't been in that position prior, you might not have that kind of pedigree where you can say, I want to go get this guy because he's played for me, and he's done this, this, this, and I know he can do

this still. And I know last week when you were you were pretty down on a guy like dan Quinn, you were not you were not in favor of having dan Quinn come in. Wanted you wanted the new you wanted that and I completely understand where you're coming from. And I have my skepticisms about dan Quinn and I still do. But ultimately, how does his scheme and how does his resume line up to allow you to be better instantly on defense? Because I feel like that's what

this higher does, you know, I don't. Look, I'm very skeptical about it. I mean, because we had a defense. They gave up historic numbers, right, And so you have to ask ourselves, with all the built in excuses of COVID nineteen, had dan Quinn been hired are fired in twenty nineteen, and hired in twenty twenty by Mike McCarthy, would he have suffered the same state as Mike Nolan even with the familiarity with the old system. I know that people completely take this antiquated way of coaching, hiring

coaches and going back and comparing players. But there's no way that you're going to sell me on the fact that Donovan Wilson is a cam Chancellor equivalent. And if you can convince me that you could possibly sell me oceanfront property in Nebraska, because I just I don't see it,

you know, I just don't. And I think that you know, the one hard sale for me on this is that Mike McCarthy sold the Jones family on this New Dallas Cowboys A twenty twenty and now we're going back to the twenty nineteen defense, and I just, you know, I have problems with that, but I want to give it

time to work. Dan Quinn is all of his accomplishments, his resume, everything that's out there on him is proven, right, But there's also another side to this where you see his defail or his team against Atlanta giving up big leads in big time, in big games. There are other things as well, But again, but this defense, that what Michael Jordan said, the ceiling is the roof. You know, the sky's the limit, right, There's no there's no where

to go but up for this defense. So I mean, as a Cowboy fan, obviously all of us are just you know, excited about you know, the possibility of having something better. Well, and you said we're going back to that twenty nineteen defense, and I feel like I have to throw this in there. This isn't exactly that twenty nineteen different defense. This isn't Rod Marinelli. I think it's a good in between rob right, whenever you look at the scheme, I mean, there's gonna be some multiple from

Dan Quinn. It's just not gonna be what Mike Nolan brought to the table. It's not gonna be quite that hybrid, that that that nickel front that you're gonna see from a Mike Nolan more so than what you saw from Rod Marinelli. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm fascinated to see how it takes shape because it is. His history is largely four three cover three, you know, single high safety defense, and we've seen that here obviously with christihs Hard being a former Seattle assistant too when he was here. So

there's there's variations of it. But to your point, he's worked in places where he was a D line coach with the Jets when they ran a three four. He worked for Nick Saban when they were a multiple defense in Miami. They were a three four hybrid scheme at Florida when he was there DC for a couple of years before he went to Seattle and they won Super Bowl. So he's been in different schemes and I think in

today's NFL you have to be different. You can't play just so plain and say, hey, we're gonna beat you because we're so talented, And that kind of goes back to Heckma's point. It does come down to players, and so I think what they're trying to do is, you know, it's another uncertain offseason. I mentioned, you know, we'll see how virtual it is. Bring in some familiarity, get the communication right, get everybody on the same page. That was

such a problem last year. Beyond the talent level, you know, just being assignment sound and maybe with a familiar scheme they can do that, but I think it's gonna be a couple of years before they probably get the personnel where they wanted to be. They just need to be okay on defense and hope your offense is healthy and really really good, and then that that's how you win

games next year. That's how I see it anyway, Isaiah, Yeah, I mean I don't disagree with you on that, but you know, again, well we obviously have to see what the salary cap situation is going to be, um and I think that they have to they have a lot of self analysis, a lot of a lot of looking on the interior this year to figure out exactly who they want to retain. I think at the end that you have to figure that out. You have to figure out what type of hits, those those potential moves are

going to have on your cap um. And you know, you go out there and you acquire some guys, like you said, Rob, that are familiar with the system. I hear, I hear, and I understand and I don't disagree with you heck on some of those formats. However, UM, I know on the inside that the culture aspect and that that's so important. It is so important. And regardless if you regardless off you're in person, regardless of your virtual it's contagious. The type of what what he what he does,

what he brings is contagious. And I think that you you can tell that, UM, this this year was a great a great example of the lack of energy, the

lack of continuity. UM. That this that this defense is particularly that this defense had UM And then I think you can look at some of the other defenses that coach Quinnance coach in the past, and you can at least see, even if the players aren't exceptional, right, look at the energy, look at the energy difference of his players, man, And I think that's something that that's that, that's we can we can really grasps onto. I mean I get it.

And Isaiah, he's your guy and you have that, you have familiarity, you know him right, Um, just for for me when just especially looking at this ros roster and the depth that we had at certain positions, it wouldn't have mattered. Man if he came in last year and tried to implement this all had the same system, that the communication was the same. You just had guys that can't play, guys that can't cover. If you're talking about a cover four scheme that yet you even alluded to Isaiah,

that's one of the easiest schemes to master. We couldn't do that, right, Let's communicate, let's talk, Let's stop anything from having the Antonio Gibson hov to the end zone. Those we were just getting gash in the running game. We were getting guys that were getting put on their name plate and there was I don't care about what kind of energy you have as a coach. If you have guys that can't play, that can't get it done, linebackers that can't share get to the ball, those things

are going to rear their head again. And so regardless of him having energy or what have you, you still are in a position where you're gonna have to have guys that can play the way that you want to. Dan Quinn has a one gap scheme. Guys are gonna have the opportunity to blow and go. But you have guys up front right now that have played in a different scheme that they're gonna have to get used to playing in his I agree on a half of what

you said. I agree on half what you said, and the reason why I agree either you have players or you don't have players at that I agree on. However, what your statement also is in digative of saying that somebody's coaching style, um is there. They're unable to get across the same information in a different form depending on their coaching style. And I disagree with you in that regard because I think Coach Quinn and other great coach and other coaches that you may be talent, you know

talented as great are really good. They are able to get across information in a different way that's that's digestible by by those players. Right, So I could receive information from you differently that I could receive information from Rob or even Kyle. Right, you guys can try to get across the same message, but I can by by you teaching it to me. I receive it and all of a sudden, oh, now I understand it and I can go out and apply it. Right the way which you

teach me to communicate. Right, all communication is not the same. Right, you teach me to communicate a certain way. Now, all of a sudden, we've we have no different in baseball, right, you got all these dog on signals and everything else. Right when I was in when I was in New England, we had so many dog one hands signals. We didn't talk on the field. There was no talking. It was it was. It was. It was an eyewink, it was a hey, it not it was one of these. It

was a all kinds of different stuff. It was a Celtic, it was all kinds of stuff. Is different, right, same players, but you convey the message differently, and guess what now you get different results on the field. So I agree with you that you need the players, but I disagree with you by saying that we don't have the players that could do it if we have the proper teacher in place. The one thing I would add to that is.

You know, guys talked about in December when they started playing better defensively, guys would say, look, we're we kind of finally understand what we're supposed to do. I don't heck, I don't think under a Dance Quinn scheme that would have been kind of a continuation of the Rod Chris scheme to a certain extent. I don't know if if guys would have been talking like that that deep end of the season. But I agree with you too. Like Isaiah said, I agree with you that there's a lot

of question marks. There's a lot of guys with expiring deals and and they've got some spots they got to look at. And I don't think you can do it all in one off season. So it's going to be

very interesting to see how it takes shape well. And I also kind of want to look at some of the guys who are going to be back here that are going to benefit I mean, heck, when you mentioned it in your opening statement about de Marcus Lawrence, I think that's a guy who certainly will benefit from having Dan Quinn rather than maybe going out of a two point stance and having to play with Mike Nolan's scheme of defense. But then you look at guys like Jalen Smith,

Like Isaiah said earlier, could Jalen Smith be better? He might be worse in this system. The defensive tackles, there's going to be a lot of pressure on them to create pressure upfront, and that's something that we saw from Mignolan's defense. It allowed them to really kind of take the forefront and they didn't do so very well. They also weren't necessarily healthy for throughout must of much of

the season as well. But heck, if you look at these players, you look at some of these individual Jimmies and Joe's to go along with the x's and o's, is there anybody that sticks out that you can look at and say they are definitely going to be better in this system as opposed to maybe last Yeah. Well, I mean guys like Anthony Brown, Right, I think Anthony Brown will be He's gonna be for a guy with his athletic skill set to pick up. You know, Cover

three is pretty simple. It's the third of the field from the numbers to the boundary. Um. You know, I think you know our Diggs is gonna benefit Grace. Yeah, Trayvon Diggs is going to benefit greatly as well in the cover three system. I mean, I think he could do it all. He's one of the one guys that you have that can do pretty much anything. But he's

gonna have to get better as well. Uh linebacker wise, I mean Laton vander esh Now, he's just gonna be gap responsible and I think taking a lot of the other reading part out of it will simplify And these are worst that we're gonna start using in the off season. That it's going to be a simplified defense where guys are gonna have to think and read and react all at the same time. So maybe that's the Maybe that's

the case. I think going back two years from twenty nineteen, especially for Jalen Smith, you start seeing offense of linemen get to him at the second level and he not be effective. But Mike Nolan came in and the whole thing premise was that we're gonna put Jaylen Smith in a position to be a player. Right, he'll be able to run free and not have guys on him. But with un Terry Poe in his face, there's nothing he

could do. He's still will still marginalized as a player, and so now we bring in a coach that it's going to make him better. But I still feel like you still have some of the same woes with Jaylen Smith in coverage versus tight ends. That's just that's just not his game. It doesn't exist there. So him, Reddy Gregory, I think he'll benefit greatly in this system. So there are a few guys that I just but but for the most part, Uh, Dan Quinn is gonna have to

get his guys in. We know that he likes a certain style of player, and I'm sure Isaiah knows this with a more taller range, yer secondary guys. But you know, it's it's gonna be a few changes, wholesale changes on our defense. Isaiah. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I mean there's gonna be there's gonna be changed. Yeah, I agree with me. Yeah, yeah, I mean we've been agreeing today. There's gonna be changed. I mean, but you know, the mortal story is, you know you got a new decordinator.

You know you got to look at your your personnel, not only in your players, but also in your coaches, your assistant coaches. Do you have the right guys in place. Um, are there going to be any changes there? Um? And then obviously you got turned to the draft, you know, you got turned to the draft and say, hey, what the heck are we gonna do there? Um? Do we you know what position do we have the greatest need of? Um? You know, it's it's a lot, there's a lot of

things that have to happen. But you know, overall, I'm pretty excited about about this guy. And I obviously I know him a lot more that I know some of the other candidates out there. But I think I think that he bowls well for this this cultureless team right now. One of the biggest worries that I have about his scheme and Jalen Smith is exactly what Heckma said earlier is covering tight ends and get going back in the coverage. Because if you look at a cover three scheme, the

where's the weakness, It's on the hash mark. It's right up the hash mark. Yeah. But wait when kJ, when kJ came in, he kJ couldn't cover, couldn't cover with a blanket. I'll just tell you he couldn't. He couldn't put a blanket on a baby. No, for sure, Yeah, for sure. But you know, but but he ever to get better. Though he can get better. He could be coached. He could be coached rand get his current state. I agree, trust me, y'all know I agree. However, when you have

athletic ability, which I don't think anybody discounts that Jalen does. Right, we realize that he's not as a guy as we thought he was change of direction or exactly. Okay, but I know that the strength conditioning coach, right who's now in place, Um, I know he focuses on that a lot because I had him in New England. So that will be that will be better than it was. Um, you know, hopefully they're in person for training. But also

you know, obviously some better coaching. There's a lot of a lot of tips and tricks that are that are that are passed along from generation and generation in this league. And there's a lot of a lot of things that he can learn from. So maybe they bring in a veteran guy that can play alongside him, who knows, We'll see, no matter what we do, no matter what we do in the draft, our free agency, we have to get guys absolutely come off the porch ready to play like

this is what you do no more project guys. We gotta get it. You can't, We cannot miss Will McClay and staff. They gotta have to get this right with guys that can implement, get in right now and play. And with everything that's happening with the draft and what came down from the letter from the NFL about the combine and all of that, it's gonna be a tougher job to you know, evaluate look at these guys. But what that's gonna force guys to do is go back to the old way of just you gotta you gotta

put it on film. Film cannot you cannot go into the combine left two twenty five thirty five times like Isaiah did it get drafted? Oh Man and heck my alluded to it. There was news about the combine. There was also news that Philadelphia was going to interview Kellen Moore and John Fossil. We're gonna take a break when we come back, could be a couple more coaching changes. How could that affect this current roster? And then also how will combine affect the off season program for the

Cowboys as opposed to what it did last year? When we come back, you're all Talking Cowboys presented by Geico. There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why Selor pioneers ways to make lenses as unique as you. Varilux for super sharp vision, Essential Blue for protection, and Crisolve for freedom from glare. Three cutting at solutions in a single unique lens. So whatever your needs, insist on Selor visit your local slor experts and find a perfect

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from home or you're cheering and the stands. With Selore lenses, you can see every exciting play book, an appointment at your local slor experts and see what Selor can do for you. See more, do more Selor and we'll talk about the bows, quiet comfort, earboads can But I feel like this wouldn't be a segment to do that when Heckma just doesn't listen. So I got that up here in a little shoe to that one in a second.

He did allude to it a couple moments ago about the changes to the Combine and Rob, I mean, I know you, you talked about this yesterday in our group chat, but the Combine is not going to be the Combine this year. No meeting at Indianapolis, no in person workouts or at least for a centralized location. All the workouts are going to have to be done virtually or at the different college campuses, and then the meetings are all virtual,

much like they were for the thirty day visits. Last year, and then all of the in person medical examinations are limited. So there's only a couple medical examinations in which will be limited. And yeah, Isaiah already knows that that's the most important part of the combine because that's why really you do it, to gather that information on these prospects. But Rob, how is this specifically going to affect the Cowboys and the way that they go out and look

for personnel. I don't know that it affects the Cowboys any different than anybody else. There's part of me that feels like the whole draft process. I'm not overrating it, but I think that we put so much on the combine and being in person at those workouts, and I think it matters. I think, you know, if all of us have had job interviews, and I think it matters

to have that in person element to it. But you know, they did some of those interviews, some of those top thirty visits virtually because we were starting the pandemic back then in the spring, so they have some familiarity with that. I agree with you. I think the medical checks are the biggest thing, and that's going to be restricted obviously, But I don't know how much the interviews really factored that much. I guess they're not going to be in

person to see the workouts, so there's that. But to me, it's not just going forward, it's also the past few months, you know, I think the scouts have been affected on what they've been able to do in terms of getting

out on the road and seeing guys. It's just all thirty two teams are dealing with it, and I think the Cowboys at least their stability in the front office with Will McClay and their scouting department, the personnel guys, they know what they're looking for, and even with Dan Quinn coming in a defensive coordinator, there's some scheme familiarity. Like we talked about, they know what they're looking for. I think that benefits them instead of a new front

office coming in. So and there's a few teams that are like that. Yeah, there is a familiarity. And even last year, whenever there was kind of the turnover from a coaching staff, it was still a good enough draft to where you felt good about it afterwards, and even after their rookie season, you can say that guys like Ceedee Lamb, Tyler beatis Neville, Gallimoor, Treyvon Diggs. I mean, those are four guys by themselves that made significant impacts.

But Isaiah, whenever you look at kind of the medical evaluations in the meetings, how much do those play a factor into maybe where you might end up via the draft? Huge? Huge. The in person meetings are awesome because you get to sit down and face to face with the coaches GMS. Um, that's awesome, right, They get that, they get a true

understanding of who you are. I never forget my interview with with with Chucky and how who We just sit there and stared me down in an a quiet room with him and Doug Williams in there, and I blinked out on Doug William's name after he asked me that if I knew who the first black quarterback was the Super Bowl, I know. But I was like, of course I know who it is. I was like, and I was like, I told you, I said, he's in the room. He said, yes he is. So that I mean that

that interview is uh is fun. But like I said that that could be done virtually. The part that sucks for the for the teams the injuries. Obviously, I came out the draft with with with that, with my Liz Frank injury. UM. The same year, Adrian Peterson was coming out with the collar bone. So I remember spending hours upon hours and me and Adrian Peterson after everybody's on

bus all the way back to the hotel. Him and I are sleeping back to back because we're spending six hours taking MRIs and X rays just because they wanted to see every little square inch of our body. They wanted to bring the prowd on us. They wanted to turn, twist and turn and put their hands on you. It's physically excruciating. I remember leaving one of those UM, one of those appointments with all the trainers and they sit

you on a table. You literally sit at a training table, and there's all the teams are around you in this big old conference room, and they put you up there. They call your name out and all the teams who that are interested in you come out there. The doctors come out there and there's literally like five six doctors on you. They're all pulling on you, testing on whatever

injuries you might have had. They have every track record from your college, every time you got a i V. Every time you gotta ask for and they have all that information and and and they're checking you out just

because you are an investment to them. So the fact that they can't do that this year is huge because that gives them the understanding and the in the confidence that you're either going to be okay coming off of an injury that that may have bothered you and been lingering over past years um or you're just in perfect health. So I think that's that's gonna hurt some teams, but also it's gonna benefit some players for Canadas. Now, guys get some opportunities that they probably wouldn't have got had

they had their hands on them. Do you feel like maybe with the current situation of this that the connections that are made by this front office are ultimately going to pay dividends because if they're not going to have these in person medical exams, you're gonna have to have connections, right, You're gonna have to have that networking and the friendships

outside of your own organization and to these schools. We've known in the past that Will McClay and his entire staff really leans toward these bigger schools like the Alabamas and the Ohio States. For some of their players. Maybe those connections are gonna pay dividends for them. Heckma yeah. I mean the coaching fraternity is a very big fraternity, and these these scouts they talk amongst each other all the time, so they're not gonna miss on guys at all.

I think the one thing that that what like Isaiah was saying, and I think that Indianapolis has is the hospital right there has state of the art equipment. UM, and maybe that's one of those things that's going to be missing. But I really think that guys are going to earn their keep this year. You're gonna find out the good scouting departments from the bad ones by the guys that's not being able to go and pick out cherry pick the players that are putting up those numbers.

And so look, I think when I think about the Star, there's a there's a part of the Star where they show gil Brandt's notes on players. I mean these are handwritten notes and so it's been done before, you know what, guys that had all the technology and the laser timing and all of that. So I look, I look for the ones that are true too, and to actually earn the keeping. It's gonna be a lot of made of evaluation looking at tape and how about the guys that are that opted out that you have to go back

two years to look at that tape. So there's a lot of things to be considered, and you know, how much weight is it going to be on playing this year versus last year? But also just making sure that all of your notes and communicating on guys and the one thing that this front office and coaching staff and scouting department that connected in that way, well, these guys are meeting with each other and finding out the type of players that they want to bring in. So we

talk about culture, who are those guys? And I believe that that's the part that we really should lean heavily on because we're building that culture and coach Mike McCarthy knows the kind of guys that he wants here. I like that. I think that's a ton of the worries. I think that's a ton of what we need to look at for the Cowboys. And also, like we kind of talked about it in the first segment, continuity is going to play a big factor in the way that

you're going to be successful here. But are we speaking too soon in terms of what that continuity may be. And I say that because we've had a couple of coaches this past week that have been rumored to have done interviews with the Philadelphia Eagles. We'll start with Kellen Moore here, Rob, I mean, what have you heard latest on Kellen Moore? I heard that he took the interview,

but ultimately it was for the head coaching position. What else have you heard about our offensive coordinator who a couple of weeks ago we thought might have gone to the college ranks. Now he's getting a head coaching interview at the same division. Kellen Moore is hot. He's sibling right now? Man? Uh yeah, Boise State? Now now Philly. Who haven't they interviewed at this point? I think that's got an interview for their defensive coordinator job. Just saying

I'm saying, uh yeah. Though it's a it's a wide net. As we've seen online, They've they've they've been linked to over a dozen names. Probably haven't heard anything other than the fact that yes, he was scheduled to interview yesterday for their opening and it honestly, it makes sense. It makes sense given not not knowing what you know not

having ties to Philly's organization. It makes sense on the outside of Okay, if you've got to fix Carson Wentz, given the financial commitment you made to him, even if you're even if you're not going to commit to Carson Wentz, you've got Jalen Hurts, who's a young quarterback with a lot of talent um. Bringing in a top offensive mind, a young offensive mind, which Doug Peterson has been that as well, makes a lot of sense. And Kellen Moore is not the only offensive guy that's been linked to

the job. But I would see why they would want to at least pick his brain and see where he's at. I don't know if that's ultimately the direction they're gonna go. I'd kind of you know, there are other names that have been linked stronger to that job, but it's a it's a pattern in their interview process that makes a

lot of sense. The other name is John Fossil. I don't know if he's actually taken the interview yet or even been offered an interview, but the report was from NBC Sports and they said interested in interviewing Cowboys special teams coordinator John Fossil. Isaiah, I know we actually kind of grew to really enjoy John Fossil throughout the latter parts of the season. At the beginning, it was definitely wishy washy. But the way the job that he did

this year, I think couldn't be understated. Yeah, I mean, I like the fact he came in aggressive and you know, he is who he is, and I again, i'm energy guys, so he he brought that energy. I think that you know, as a special teams coordinator, your your job is a really pushed the envelope to make sure that you have the personnel, make sure that you guys understand the schemes, and then obviously push your coach to take risks. And

I think he did that. Um, I just don't think that he expected a coach to say yes to as many things as he pushed on. But I mean, I mean, what you what you asked them, especial teams coordinator, I think he did. I really think he came in and did a good job. I just I just think that, uh, you know, coach, coach McCarthy definitely should have should have pushed puncher, pushed the brakes a couple of times on him.

But the fact that and it's kind of interesting that he's being asked to He's being asked to go somewhere else. That's that's kind of that's kind of odd to me, really really odd. But I don't know who knows which one would be a bigger loss for the Cowboys, Kellen Moore or John Fossil tell them more, Yeah, I think so, okay, yeah, kell him more. Yeah. But you know, Kyle, I just wanted to say, nothing surprises me about the Eagles and them wanted to bring and Kelly Moore and this spying

on us than doing uh. But you know, when you look around the NFL and the guys that have been hired, you see a league that is going younger. You see they everybody's trying to find that new boy, Jenius, the McVeigh, the Shanahans of the world, and they know that that's you know, that's where the league is going. They're getting rid of a lot of that old blood and the

coaching coaching ranks. But you know, it wouldn't surprise me if in the next couple of years that Kelly Moore landed himself at a head coaching job based off of the numbers that he's putting up here. But when you talk about Bones, Fossil also a great coach hardball and Baltimore started off as a special teams coach. So there's history there of coaches special teams coaches being hired as head coaching as head coaches in this league. So you know,

look for the Cowboys right now. You say, you talk about losing Kelly Moore and also you know the DAKH perspective, you know, that would be huge for us to find that replacement who can bring in those same verbiage. Then I think kept death familiarity in the offensive scheme intact this year with Kelln Moore. So it's interesting. And you know, I think Kellen has critics. I think everybody wants everybody says on their couch and said I would have called

this play. You know, that's that's that's part of being a fan, you know, And so he has his critics, but I think a lot of it's hecks right. Like he's a young coach. I think he's on the uprise. He's gonna get better, kind of like we talked about Dak. You know, negotiations with Dak started a year and a half ago whatever, And you know you're you're gonna be paying Dak for what you think he can develop into.

And I think that's what you know. It's the same deal with Kellen as a play caller and eventually he Yeah, I agree, I think he's gonna be a head coach. Don't forget Sean Payton. Before he came to the Cowboys in OH three, he was with the Giants and he had his play calling duty stripped with the Giants, you know, and so as a as a very young coach, and I think he's probably I think he's gonna head to the Hall of Fame one day. So, uh, you know, coach coaches can get better too. And I think I

think Kellen will got two things for you, Kyle. I think we have a new D line coach. I think that saw that come across. Yes, But also does I know we posed this question whenever it came up about Boise State, does Killamore leave? Can you turn down You can turn down a college job, but can you turn down the hay coaching job for Philly? No, there's there's only thirty two of those jobs. You gotta do what you gotta do, right Yep. I agree. I'll just making

sure y'all. I mean you could. You could Jason Garrett. The rumors that Jason Garrett had an opportunity in Baltimore and when he was the OC here and and waited and stayed so but yeah, I agree, it's it's hard to turn down a very rare opportunity. Yeah, you just don't. Rob tell us about this new defensive line coach. His name is Aiden Dirt. I hope I'm pronouncing his last name right. He we talked about familiarity. Second assistant coach to join Dan Quinn on the defensive side of the

ball from Atlanta. He's a young coach um. He worked with the line Packers I believe in Atlanta and former He's English, he's a former NFL Europe player, So he's a young coach taking over that position. Don't forget dan Quinn. He is schooled in coaching D line, so I would imagine he might be pretty hands on as well as being the DC to help with that position. But also Joe Witt, who interviewed for the DC job, is also expected to come aboard in an untitled role, probably to

help in the secondary obviously. I think that's interesting because we talked about Joe Witt last week as one of the names that was potentially going to be the coordinator, and you not only get Dan Quinn, but you get Joe Witt to come along as well. I think that's kind of a win win from coach McCarthy, don't you think, Acma, No, I do. I mean he's bringing over a lot of his guys and you kind of expected and the rumors were that Wit and Quinn are kind of conjoined, that

they hip as far as a hire. So it doesn't surprise me that these guys are coming on. Leet it be and you know, coordinators are you know, passing game, coordinate all of the those things that the guys are positions that consecating. But it's important that these guys figure out a way to get this defense playing again. Defensive line coach from NFL Europe, he has his work cut out for him because they're changing schemes and he's gonna have a bunch of guys that he's gonna have to

coach up. And like you said, Rob Quinn is probably because of his roots as a defensive line coach, is going to be really hands on there. So interesting. Hire can't wait to talk to him. Yeah, this is gonna be fun to talk about over the next couple of weeks. Now, we're gonna go ahead and Sephiside for our second break, but when we come back, we're gonna talk about what the Cowboys can potentially learn from the four teams that

are still left in the NFL playoffs. I think there's a ton of lessons to be learned from each one of those four organizations, and we're gonna see how the Cowboys can take some things from that when we come back on the other side of the break, you're listening to Talking Cowboys, presented by Geico. We're back in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and Cream Soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor Pepper and Cream Soda. Is he a new Combonlet's music

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of Talking Cowboys here on this Wednesday morning. And whether you're listening to Talking Cowboys or you're working out with both Quiet Comfort earbuds, you can experience audio at a whole new level with those Quiet Comfort earbuds, the official earbuds of the Dallas Cowboys. And hey, he's got them turned on this time, Thank goodness. Heck my Harrison's got those second. Oh, Rob Phillips, we've got Isaiah stand back, I'm cow final couple minutes here of Talking Cowboys. Got

about a fifteen minutes. Wait, wait, we gotta hear heck say it's Oh what does it sound like? Heck, it's like a simphony in my head. Yeah, you had to get it all ready to go. I like it so good. Four teams left in the NFL playoffs. We've got the Kansas City Chiefs. To no surprise, we've got the Buffalo Bills. Those are that's your AFC Championship game. In the NFC

Championship game. It's still twenty fourteen, apparently because it's the Packers led by Aaron Rodgers, and it's Tom Brady h now, not with the Patriots and not in the AFC, but he's in the NFC with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And what surprise that has been. And really kudos to everybody around that that organization of putting a good roster together and allowing Tom Brady to be successful. The former teammate

of Isaiah Stanback. That's probably gonna be on his Hall of Fame bust I think, Isaiah, you're right, former teammate of Isaiah Stanback. It definitely didn't make that list. Definitely didn't make that list. Now, whenever he comes to these four teams, I mean, it's it's really four different blueprints on how to win and how to get to where

they are at this very moment now. I think probably the most similar blueprints are most likely the NFC or excuse me, the af Championship game with Buffalo and with Kansas City. They were built similarly, but in just that different time periods. But whenever you look at these four teams, what is something that the Cowboys can take from them? And how to learn how to get back to an

NFC in a conference championship game. Well, I mean, man, this whole playoff series to me has been separating the guys with pea shooter arms from the guys that have bazooka arms. And the final four is all bazookas. And if you want to have any success in the NFL, and this NFL with spread out and has past all these passing yards that they're putting up, you're gonna have to have a guy with the arm that can facilitate

all of that. And you see that with these top four teams and just the numbers that they've put up this year. I mean going back to the matchup with Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers, Boy, that is a showcase of two of the mostly league quarterbacks to do it. And that's why I'm really excited about. But Josh Allen is doing a phenomenal job in Buffalo and they won that game against Baltimore, and it was just a hard game to watch, especially with Lamar Jackson not being able

to stretch the field. And that's something that's a young quarterback and I'm pulling for him, but it doesn't matter if he can have the MVPs, all of those things, man, but if you cannot stretch the field, teams are just going to load up on you, especially in a winner

take all kind of a situation. But talking about the Kansas City Chiefs, and I think it was their defense that really impressed me, and just the Honey Badger and his ability to turn that run back in right, and it just shows you what you can do when you have a safety that can play like that at the line of scrimmage. And it was just masterful what Spagnola did and that those last couple of defensive play callings play calls was just a picasso. Man. They did a

really good job. And so I'm looking forward to that game as well. So the Cowboys could learn by getting their a one quarterback and also getting a safety that can turn the run. Rob, Yeah, I'm totally with you. Heck, I've marked down defense and get yourself a franchise quarterback. And that's why the Cowboys are trying are trying to resign Dak Prescott long term, because that's what it takes. I went back and I looked at like the last ten seasons, Okay, the final four in the championship game.

So that's forty slots according to my math, my terrible math, and twenty five of those spots over the last ten years have gone to just a handful of quarterbacks. It's Mahomes, it's Brady, it's Russ, It's been Roethlisberger, It's Rogers, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, and I threw Matt Ryan in there too, who's been been an MVP and been to

a super Bowl. And mixed in there those other fifteen spots, you might have guys that sneak in a Folds or a Kirk Cousins or you know Tannehill last year, but like that's rare Garoppolo. It's not. If you want to get there, you're in, you're out. You better have a really good quarterback. And for those that say, oh, draft one in the top five, look at the NFC East, look at Daniel Jones. The jury is still out on

Daniel Jones. It's Carson Wentz, Mitch Trubisky who lost in the in the first round this year, all really high draft picks. There is no guarantee. There's just no guarantee that it's gonna work out for you. So if you think you've got a really good one who's gonna be potentially a great one, Keep him, keep him around, figure it out. Yeah, yeah, Isaiah. Two things stick out to me. I think I think about the character of the coaches.

I think about the character to coaches in and how the fact that they have not only on their team and their players, but also the second one is culture, right, And I use that word a lot, but it's important. It's important. I mean, you guys, think about green Bank. Green Bay use their first round pick on another quarterback. They use it on his freaking replacement. They didn't give him any additional help in their regard and look where

they're still at. That's you're right, that's amazing. Yeah, look where they're still at. Right, So they could have easily gave him another you know, a CD Lamb or something like that, right to help him out, but they didn't. They didn't because they know that at the route they're still good. They know that the route. They have a great coach. They know at the route they have a

great quarterback who is gonna lead this team. And the culture of their team is to go out there and take young players and veteran players, put them on the field together, and everybody's gonna do their job effectively to put them in a position to go after the Super Bowl every year. Right, you go to Kansas City, Andy Reid, Andy Reid is Andy Reid, Right, he is who he is. He's gonna If you're gonna play for Andy Reid, guess what, you're gonna be tough, Right, You're gonna be You're gonna

be an energetic, You're gonna be a team player. Nobody cares about your personal accolades. We all care about what we can do for the team. What's your contribution to this team. That's his culture out there. You go to Buffalo, right, go out the Buffalo, new coach, right, new coach out there, right, and he's out there doing making things happen, making things happen. And you know they're they're building their culture out there. You could tell it's tough, it's gritty, is grind it

out right. When people come through us, they're gonna they're gonna feel it no matter what happens. Right, young quarterback that's growing and developing. Right. And then and then obviously and then you look at Tampa Bay, Well, we know what that's about. Bruce arians is no nonsense, right, straight, no chaser, and this is what you get. We are a tough team. They have a solid defense that desn't

gives them. Did get enough credit. They're about to get tougher with my boyfriend Vita Vea coming back you dub coming on a d line. So their their defense is tough. And then what they go out there and get the goat at quarterback who everybody wants to play with. Why because of the culture that he establishes on that side of the ball. They know. These teams know who they are. They have identities. They're not soul searching trying to figure

out who they are. That's what this that's what the Cowboys need to pay attention to and try to try to pick up from these playoffs. Well, how far are they from that? Because I feel like it's light years. I mean at least after this season, right, I mean, Mike McCarthy can get to that point. We've seen that already. He can get to the point as a head coach to where he has that kind of control and that

kind of swagger I guess underneath him. And you have a franchise quarterback in Dak Prescott that you have to lock up contract wise, but surely that's something that's a priority for this Cowboys team this offseason. But outside of that, there really hasn't been that identity. There hasn't been that swagger. There hasn't been the kind of mindset that by everyone's going to do their jobs. It's more of a this is going to be a harsh word, but it's coddling.

It's it's what it feels like. It feels like you coddle a lot of these players until they finally show some things. Sadovan Wilson. Look at Donovan Wilson specifically. I mean, I love that word. But you caught on Donovan Wilson for a year and a half and then all of a sudden he's the best player on your defense the final six games of the year. That's that's all I'm saying. I mean, that's one example. There are plenty of those.

But Isaiah, how do you get past that point to where it's now it's a it's it's expected to him in and do your job, whether you're yeah, your trade bar it's not expected yet here. But how do you get to that? You know what I wish we had behind the veil in terms of had a little bit closer look to the to their what their coaching staff does and practice and all those things. This year obviously COVID threw a curveball on that. However, um, from what we can see, From what we can see, I believe

that coach McCarthy was a little bit too complacent. He did not establish, uh, establish his will, establish his culture here. I think he needs to be a lot more hands on. Does that mean him calling plays? I don't know. Right Maybe he'll get the opportunity because he might have Alvin's coordinator here. But I think that he needs to enforce his will more because those teams that we talked about, those coaches are in the background. You know they're they're

not just in the background. You know they do their job. Bruce arians does his job right. He doesn't have to say he will. He's something. He does speak up a little bit too much sometime. But but that but you you feel that, you feel that that that energy that he puts off, right, that that vibe, that greediness you feel that with his team. Did you got to see

his center? His center is a jerk. I love it, right, man, I feel like that's him reincardinated on the field, right, and then you look at you look at Buffalo their coach, gritty gritty, right, Andy Reid. Guess what he is calling those plays, no question about it, right, And you got a Green Bay. But La Fleur or whatever his name is, I don't know what I say. He's out there calling plays too. So I guess all those coaches have a direct impact on the results of what happens on the field.

And I think that McCarthy came in and try to give his coaches too much power, and I think he needs to really step into a lot more prominent role this year. Rob. No, No, that's that's that's interesting. And I agree with you, you know, and I think you know, COVID was weird in terms of trying to I don't know, established culture, because you gotta stay apart, you gotta do all these things with a mask and all that. I think. I do think it was a weird year to try

to do that. But I agree. I think you've got to put your stamp on what you want to do. And defensively, they've got to do that too. They got to they got to kind of start over and figure out how they want to approach that. So the other thing I would add to piggyback on what Heck said. I'm just looking at these scores in the divisional round, and this season was all about offense, right, Well, defense still matters a little bit. The teams that lost over

the weekend. Baltimore had three points, Cleveland had forty eight in the first round seventeen against Kansas City, Tampa Bay beating New Orleans had twenty, and the Rams had eighteen. So yeah, you know, the Cowboys get healthy, they can put up a lot of points, but if they don't get their defense fixed, they could make the playoffs. But to keep playing into late January, your defense still matters. Yep.

You could talk about coddling these guys, swaddling these guys, whatever you want to, but they're just the signs of why this season was a failure statistically and just in

every way. You look at the injuries on the offensive line, there aren't any other teams that had was decimated to that our team was with, you know, retiring players, both of your tackles going down, losing your all pro right guard, all of those things that happened, and oh yeah, losing your stark quarterback and so I think we live in the world where we think that we could just plug and play guys and still get the same results, and

that's not that way. I think, you know, the Cowboys defensive Dan Quinn could come in and do his job, and these guys can get some stops. You were in games that you could have won, or if you were able to get some type of turnover or a stop. That was the problem. Even when we turned the ball over. Teams were getting points off of our turnovers. And that's not a guarantee thing. It's just because our defense couldn't

stop anyone. And once Dak went out and we had our offensive problems and Bend the Nucci was doing the Uncle Rico and all of that, man we had, it was just gonna be what it was gonna be. And so we shouldn't be surprised that we're here. But just going on the positive note, building this defense getting the kind of plays in the culture that Isaiah keeps going back too. I think it's important and what is that culture,

dog culture, goon culture. Guys, it's gonna come in and Okay, football the way that it's supposed to be played, not a whole bunch of guys just want to be soft body. You know, let's just know what we're gonna do and so get to that championship level. If you're looking at the teams that are up there and you want to immolate and mimic what they do, look at the personnel that they play with. Hey, it's not Friday, but I feel you. Heck, say, what's your chest? It's the seasons season.

We can still say it with our chest season. I love miss you guys, man, you know, and and heck, you made a great point in the fact that excuses are I mean, injuries are in excuses to a certain extent. I mean, but with the extent of what happened with the Cowboys this season, look at what happened in the AFC Divisional round with Kansas City. You lose your guy.

I mean, we would all agree that Kansas City is built maybe three times better than the Dallas Cowboys on both sides of the football, even if you take Patrick Mahomes out of the equation. That's exactly what happened. They took Patrick Mahomes out of the equation and all of a sudden, Cleveland goes on a run. And if they had one more possession, probably would have won that game. Ultimately they would they out of defense, Yeah, exactly, they

ran out of time. Cleveland still would have won that game solely based on the fact that Patrick Mahomes was taken out of the equation, even though Cleveland was not nearly as good of a team as Kansas City. But that just shows the importance of having that leader, of having that franchise quarterback, and having somebody that you can rely on. And of course the Cowboys didn't have that for the final twelve weeks of the season because of

what happened to Dak Prescott. So that's gonna happen. That's always going to change the outlook of your football program and your football team. But I mean, at the same time, you can't make those excuses every year. If the same thing happens in twenty twenty one, you have to be

able to combat that. Right if you lose your left tackle, you're right tackle, your quarterback, you gotta be You've got to be better prepared, Like right now, Kansas City is not prepared to go into the Yeah, I was thinking that too. This is yeah, that happened, So you got people wanted to move the AMC Championship game the next Wednesday to give him a chance to play. So, I mean, the personnel is important. When you have those guys that get it done for you and have the entire season,

we cannot underscore their importance to your squad. It's just it is what it is, man, yep, I mean, and it's something that the Cowboys are gonna have to figure out this offseason. It's something that that they've got to get done. I think Dak Prescott and when next week, when we're back on Monday at eleven thirty Central time, we're gonna talk about Dak Prescott. What is the timeline for Dak? And how worried and when shouldn't you be

worried this offseason? How does this negotiation go and some of the important dates along for the off season program for this Dallas Cowboys team. But that's gonna do it for us. You're all Talking Cowboys presented by Geico. For Chris Bean, back at the Star, for Isaiah stand Back, for Rob Phillips and for heck My Harrison. I'm oh, we're all we're all doing it this time. That's there for us here on Talking Cowboys. We'll see you on Monday.

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