Talkin' Cowboys: Going All Over The Map

and time to talk Cowboys. No Rob today. He's out this week, but we hope to have Rob back next week, right, Mickey Spagnola, Yes, since I missed last week, we're just rotating. He was missing here where main stage right here? That's I mean, the oldest guys here right now, he's the oldest guy. I thank you. That's right. That's right. Oh wow, so much to talk about we do. We got a super Bowl matchup. I got my super Bowl head on. Yeah it's the wrong. Yeah, it's like you're last year

and you're here. Yep, I'm here, but no one's there yet. Yeah, that's right. There is the off week. Well I can claim he's still going. I'm not going. No, Okay, that's right. That's a different broadcast. That's right, it's a Fox broadcast. It's not CBS. We break out all stops when it's CBS. Okay, So it's Kansas City, the Dallas Texans and uh the San Francisco forty nine ers. Should be a good super Bowl matchup, almost really good matchup. Almost a good anniversary

game right from the first one. Yeah, almost so. So, Casey beat both teams in the playoffs that had a little a little something in common, right, Houston Oilers. Yeah, that's right, rights and the Titans. That's right, both of them came through Houston. That's right. In fact, in fact, if you really want to go out back in time, we're talking Texas ties on both sides. Yeah right, yeah,

that's right. You had this AFC Championship game matchup was a rematch of the nineteen sixty two AFL Championship game, the Dallas Texans winning and double overtime over the Houston Oilers. Wow, and Lamar Hunt subsequently moved the team to Kansas City right after that. Absolutely, that was classy, dude. That is a classy dude. Yeah, the whole Hunt family. Yeah, you know, I'm sure it was a it was all the money thing, but they could have stayed here, you know, and fogged out.

They could have battled for the market. I guess you might well. And if you look back at the archives from nineteen sixty sixty one sixty two, of course, the Cowboys were an upstart expansion franchise and just getting their legs. And the Texans were more popular at the outside there they were, and more successful too. They still just decided to just move up, pick up the stakes, and move

on out. Got a sweetheart deal. He must have to move to Kansas City, if I remember, the mayor of Kansas City and tist them with some financial incentives, and off he went. And he took a lot of great Texas athletes with him too. Yes, yes, Emma Thomas Right Hall of Fame was a bishop, Bishop Holletts. I think so, yeah, I think so. A lot of local guys won that squad, and Texas guys EJ. Hollim. You know it's a Texas guy draft choice of the Cowboys. There you go. They signed, Yeah,

big buck, you can Grambling State. There you go. A great how many Hall of Fame Hall of famers on that team when you think about it, Oh, this Taylor right, Flynn Dawson you're talking Emmy Thomas and a great squad Marcellus. I remember Marcellus being in the secondary, a great man, the man player. You also had the guy that just just got the Hall of Fame the year after I did make and he had fifty seven in the sep is it Johnny Robinson. Robinson. So that's a great square

and you know, you have to think about it. He's one of the last ones to make the Hall of Fame on that on that team as far as the superstar players, So they as a senior, did they keep throwing that in their face that it's been how many years sifty been to the super Bowl? Fifty years? Fifty years? Yeah, yep, super Bowl four. Yep. Super Bow Ilness is fifty four, so that would be four. I figured it out. I always get them confused with when the Jets wanted and

then when Kansas City won it. But they went to the first one. That's right against Green Bay. And that's what you were alluding to off the top there, almost in the hundredth year of the National Football League had a rematch of the first Super Bowl. Green Bay didn't come close to holding up their into the bargain. That's it just got wiped out, and that's very unusual for Lombardi team, especially in the championship game. You're no, you're

talking about this game. I'm like, what Lombardy beat him? Okay, maybe it's little ct CT coming didn't. Yeah, man, that was a wipe up. There's here's how much things have changed. Perhaps some were all used to tell the story about the first Super Bowl and you know, it was televised by both CBS and NBC Green Bay in Kansas City, and they came back from a at halftime the second half kickoff and CBS was still in a commerce maybe both networks, now I think it was. I think NBC

was still in a commercial. CBS came back, okay, and and Pat they were switching who was doing the sideline reporters, but he was one. Yeah, the second half was his right. So he's down on the on the sideline and the producer calls in his air Well, what happened was Green Bay kicked off? Yeah, okay, and but they were in a TV time out. Okay, so that you take it. So so one of the stations had it, the other

state NBC didn't. Okay, all right, And uh so he gets in his ear, and this is his first thing he's ever done for TV, right, Pat, summer all, this is his start and the producer goes, uh, Pat, NBC was in commercial break and missed the kickoff. Would you ask Vince Lombardi if he would kick off again? Since since Pat new Lombardi, since he played for the Giants when Barti was a coach, so summer are summer all? The answer is absolutely not going up to any coach.

So they filed off again. They filed some underling to go up to Lombardi, goes a coach. They missed the kickoff on NBC, could you kick off again? And yeah, okay, so he did? He did? Yes, come on, they did, because you know what, back then, you guys are too young. The NFL, the NFL, the NFL, the NFL just didn't recognize the AFL. They they felt like this slap in their face that they had to play this game, the

NFL championship game. They considered the championship games. It's like, oh, now we got to play this game, right, So Lombardi, I don't I don't know how serious the Packers took it, and uh, he goes, yeah, yeah, I we'll kick off a kid they did. Imagine, man missed the kids these days. It's amazing that we've survived. Yeah, when you look at all the crap that went on through history forgets sports, politics, and wars alone, how are we still sitting here? How

is the world not just disintegrated? Like and by the way, Fringer, you mentioned something, you mentioned grambling and I meant to. I wanted not to forget this. I got to go to, uh the Eddie Robinson Coach of the Year banquet. When I went down to the National Championship game and uh uh coach O won it. Hopefully he's that good because he just lost both coordinators. By the way, yes, uh.

And I ran into Eddie Robinson the third and he said to make sure you make sure you tell ever since I said, Hi, is he a little clone of his grandfather or what? It just just looks just like him. He will soon be brushing his hair. I really nice guy. A long conversation. When you grew up with the Robinson family, you you go through a lot of different organizations that others don't get a chance to go through. The Yankees,

of course, loved Eddie Robinson. We were like the first football team to play a football game in Yankee State. Really yeah, nineteen sixty nine, I think it was. It was Morgan State. I think they said three Hall of Famers came from that football game back then, and so that's when you know the HBCUs. They were just black colleges, right, and they just had studs all running through that before all integration came. So it was an amazing event. So

now he's he's working with the Yankees. Talking about Eddie Trey, he's working with several organizations that because Eddie Robinson's your grandfather, he has gotten to know some of the most important people in the world. Yeah, and he walks around like he's never met anybody. No, it was just the nicest guy. And I told he asked we were talking, I said, well,

you can do me one favorite. What's that? I said, would you leave the Eddie Robinson Museum open on the weekends because when I strive through it's closed on the weekends. He goes, well, you have connections, and I bet I can open it. You got a son too, Eddie Robinson fourth. Wow, how about that he's in college now? Wow? Yeah, Andie Trey has a son in college. Yeah, yeah, it looks well he does. You're right. So where is Eddie Robinson Museum.

It's on campus. Okay, I have pictures if you want to see it, all right, all right, I have a video running through there. And it was the uh oh, you guys, the quarterback story. They had the one white quarterback. It was a Gramley Tiger. And you will not remember who was the star of that movie. And I was there as they shot the movie. My wife and I were in the movie. We were extra. Was in the movie. Do you know who the white tyger? Heard the name? But I do not remember. Well, his name has changed.

It used to be Bruce, and that was Kaitlin. That's what Caitlin. Caitlin, right, Caitlyn Jenner. That's how you say, that's Bruce. Bruce was a white tiger. Bruce was the white I was in the scene with Bruce Jenner. Guys, you gotta look it up, man, white tiger. I was in a domino scene. I'm with my boys with playing dominoes. Come on, it's a black college. You gotta put a domino scene in that one. Can't have him scene at Gramley stage. Come on back in the sixties and and

not have a domino scene. So I'm playing dominoes me and my boys and we look up and some white dude opens the door at All Black School in the dormitory and he goes, hey, guys, and we look at him like he's got no clothes. One has no clothes, Like, what are you doing to here, white boy? How many movies should have been called White Tiger. I don't know

gramblings White Tiger. Let me put in Grambling. Only one. Hey, that helped me pay my bills when I was off campus from my senor actually paid you to man, I'm a I'm a sag Now do the eighty one movie. I'm with sag Man. Come on, I didn't see on the show last Bruce Jenner starring Bruce Jenner, Dude, the All State Man, the insurance Man, Dennis Haybert. He was there, I mean, come on, everybody was there. Man the guy from the Rookies, the one of the black guys from

the Rookies, the old show Stafford, right, Stafford. I think his listening. He's the producer of the director of the show. Stars at Grambling. You don't get this anywhere else but tried George Stanford Brown. Stafford Brown was the director of the Bruce Come on, man, there you go elbows with him a baby, well not just bags deeper than that. Since we're talking Hall of famers being Eddie Robinson, should we talk Hall of Fame? Now we're the close of

this first segment. I don't know that we have enough time. I know we don't have enough time too. Well, let's talk Okay, let's talk about the ones who got in first, and then we'll come back and talk about the one who did not get eggs uh it. And we talked about Jimmy last week. Mickey, you weren't here last week, right, It was great to seeing Jimmy. Uh as he found out got surprised when I was happy even I was happy.

I don't I never don't think I've ever seen him happy emotional like that, you know, yeah, he's usually happy, no very I was like, yeah, yeah, that came from that came from somewhere. That was pretty cool. And then the fact that they had to uh wherewithal to keep a camera on Troy yeah during it, Yes, that was pretty good producing there. Yeah. And then Cliff Harris gets in last Wednesday stuff. Yeah. I had called Cliff the week before I don't know what I was doing. I

just got bored. I called him and we started talking. I had him laughing about different stuff. So then I called him back after one I told him I was good luck for Yeah, I got I got to talk to him Wednesday, I think it was Wednesday. After I got back, I gave him a call after he did announcement, and yeah, he was really happy. He was pretty humble about it too, no doubt knowing him, and yeah, but he just thought it was great and he said he

made sure he text back and forth with Drew. I'm getting ahead of ourselves, but just to let him know that, you know, as happy as I am, more sad for you not getting in. And that was the reason I called him the second time, was because everybody was just so heartbroken. Yeah, you know, you had the video right there and it just and like I said, we're getting a hit of ourselves, but you just can't talk about how Cliff deserved herbs better in regards to us being

so angry about Drew. That man, this guy made secondary man a watchtop Baptist and he's in the Hall of Fame. So I had to tell him. I had to call him. Let him, know, you know, he's always laughing at me. But I had to call him, let him know how unfair that. You know, we all feel for him because it's, oh, it's so overshadowed by man, what a great accomplishment, you know.

And I talked about his numbers to him, and you know how God, dude, you don't realize you look at him as a player that just came up and hit people. It's got a six time pro bowler. That's six time pro bowler. That's a lot of co bowls for a free safe. And he still got his wits about him. He still does. He still he's got a great room

in his house. So he's got his upstairs man cave sort of like yeah right, but he's got a closet it there, and it's a big walk in closet, and he's got everything from back in his playing date, like the playbooks for the games. He's got him in binders. And you go in there and see where he kept notes. He and Charlotte Waters deserve each other. They just they just keep who keeps that? He kept it all. I

couldn't wait to get that. I can't tell you the stuff he had in there, White and then when we were getting ready to leave, we were going down and I was talking about the closet and his wife comes in. She goes, he didn't take him in that closet, did you? And I said, it was the best part of the tour, exactly exactly. You have to mention. I don't want to go through the break, but you have to mention just

how he played for his father. Right, his father was blind, if I'm not mistaken from that's why he does the does to him. But he wasn't able to see him play. I don't know if he wasn't able to see him play at all, but I know at a certain age, h Cliff was playing in front of his blind father. Yeah, and that's kind of that's that's that just shows a lot of dedications, strength and also sadness. You know, my dad was blessed enough, you know parents, hopefully you guys

were the same way. They weren't afflicted with anything like that. And to carry that with you, I would imagine if fueled him a lot. Yeah, as he played from Wachita all the way through, uh, you know, playing for his dad, and of course he kept that legacy alive through the golf tournament as we spoke of. And I had Rick Goslin on my show on CBS eleven on Sunday night. He talked about Cliff Harris, and he thinks one of the reason Cliff didn't even think he was gonna get it,

I mean, it blindsided him. He thought none of us. Yeah, but Goods thinks one of the reasons is the makeup of this committee. And there were seven football guys on this committee, the Special Centennial Class Selection Committee, including Bill Belichick. I'm looking at the list of the committee members. Gil Brandt was on it. I'm looking for other football guys who were on it, Dick le Beau, John Madden, Ozzie Newsome. He said there were seven guys, Bill Polian who were

and Ron Wolf Okay, and not just media members. And so he thinks the reason Cliff got in was those football guys looked at how he was. They weren't looking at stats. They don't care anything about stats or how many Pro Bowls you were in. They were looking at you, how you played, how you played football, right. And so that says a lot about the respect that Cliff Harris has among football people that in this class he got in.

And I heard. I heard Goose talk about the day or the days they had two twelve hour meetings in person, and this fouled several conference calls with everybody that they held before that, so it was pretty extensive. They didn't they weren't very cavalier about it. So I guess we've blown the second segment here now, Okay, we'll be back in a moment, just a moment here on. I'm Jay Novachek, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys back in the day. I was a guy who always got the tough yards

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America's best network. Come into an AT and T store to find out how to get one of our popular smartphones for zero dollars down based on GWS ones cour September twenty nineteen to Talk in Cowboys, got a lot to get to here on this edition of Talking Cowboys, we will get into this Cowboys coaching staff where Senior Bowl is starting up this week. Coaches aren't down at the Senior Bowl, decision made by Michael McCarthy keeping them here. The scouts are there at the Senior Bowl this week.

And but let's talk Drew Pearson for a little bit here, because I think everyone was pretty shocked and dismayed last Wednesday morning when Drew did not get the call. With this expanded class of senior players that were added to the Hall of Fame, there were ten players seniors who were voted in to the Hall of Fame. I believe six of them are deceased, so they were players from

the twenties, thirties, forties, fifties. Rick Gosling told me that was one of the one of the reasons they had the expanded class was to take care of those who had been bypassed way back in the past, but as far as the modern guys now, Drew Pearson is the only all decade player, not just wide receiver, but all decade player who is not in the Hall of Fame. After Cliff Harris got in, you know, and when Cliff got in, and I think he understood, and Everson can

talk about it. When you get so close to making it and you don't get in, it's just crushing. And in two thousand and four he was in the final ten along with Bob Hayes and Rayphiel Wright, and he got eliminated when they cut to six I think it was or seven, no six, and then the other two guys got voted out. Rayphiel didn't make it, Bob Hayes didn't make it that year, three of them. I mean, that's got to be excruciating. And so he understood. Drew's part of that of how crushing it can be. And

you know, and Everson, you did the same thing. Have a room full of people and you're sitting there and waiting and then see his was they just had to drive to his house. Mine flew to Minneapolis. So we're talking. Yeah, I feel for you. But now in regards to Drew Many. It's just it's so much I want to say, and I just have to be kind of careful. You know, when you talk about the old regime of the Cowboys, they weren't friends of the players. Let's just say what

it is. They weren't friends of the players. We were adversarials. We had an adversarial relationship management and players. And that was a time there to where they feel right, Bob Hayes, I mean, come on, Mayor Renfro. Even these guys had to wait. They had to wait way too long to get in. Some of them. We took begging from others. Bob Hayes, changed to change sports, to change the game, to change sports. Olympic Medal, super Bowl. Okay, you can

look that up and see how unique that is. You know, Ray feel right all pro like, oh my god, ten eleven, twelve times and you take all this time to get in mel Renfroe. So you got to know that, you know, when you start talking about that, that that environment from back then, it wasn't friendly and text text ram and those guys they had long memories and if you made them mad, then they got something for you. Leroy, Jordan Leroy Jordan. Come on, man, I mean we're talking guys

that deserve to be in the team. So now here you go. This is this is the dynamic here Overgeme don't give a crap, well really not, just don't give it Overgreen, really not your friend. New regime comes in. Oh, all those guys that didn't make it in the overgime. Oh, we don't dislike you. We just you know, we just don't care for you. I mean, we don't dislike you, but we've got guys that we have to deal with now.

So you got guys like Drew Pearson, myself, Cornell Green, you know, you just talk like, oh, Cornell all at safety and corner. All of these guys have been forgotten about Harvey Martin. Harvey, don't get me started. Don't get me started. So all these guys have been forgotten about it and now are low priority for this organization, this regime. You can't blame Jerry for that, you can't do that. But he got me making up for Harvey Martin. You

should have put Harvey Martin in. So these are kind of this is the dynamic that we're dealing with that leads to the sadness of Drew Pierson and everybody that loves him, and it affects everybody. I talk to her, Carmichael, he's upset about it, even though he's blessed to get in anyone's story that's positive. Then you've got the Drew Pearsons, you've got the Harvey Martins. You're not along that family. Drew and his sorry, Harvey and his mom are gone.

So you know, we gotta think about what that family thinks about every every hall of fame. My problem is not my problem. My approach is this. Before I got in, I never saw hall of fame event. I don't I still haven't seen one. I don't care to see one. I promised my dad when he died, I'm not until i'm in. He used to call me every every every hall of Fame. You shut him down pretty good. He called me all the time, right, So we had fun

with it. So that's just our little thing. So everyone has the good and you know, sad stories or whatever you want to call it. But I think it's a tragedy that we had to get here because of these political uh dynamic, this political dynamic crap that went on back then, and really it's still continuing today. No fault of Jerry's. That's not my job to make up for that. I got the other guys I gotta deal with. We gotta do with with now. Ring of Vanna, y'all did

with Tony Romo, Ring of Varna. Some of these guys hadn't even made it to that yet, right even in the count you know. And and I got a feeling what happened was when they started going through this and they looked at the coaches and it was like, Okay, Jimmy deserves to be in, so Jimmy. And then they looked at the players, and you know, with Cliff, it had been so long since he you know it, I mean two thousand and four is a long time ago, right when he came that close, and it's like, Okay,

he deserves to be in. And when then when you're voting, I guarantee you those guys looked at that list and said we three cowboys three three cowboys in And it's like Drew took it up the shorts, you know. And when you think about what what what Bill said about the type of guys that were in the room, to me, that that boost Drew's Yes, yes, even even more. I just think they couldn't do three, and there was only three They got two guys. Keep in mind, on Harold

Carmichael's resume, it does say Dallas Cowboy on it. Yeah, yeah, right last year. So there are some in that room who considered Carold carmike. I just never watching in the locker room, I'm going, that's the tallest wide receiver. I was like, Man, we weren't with the crap when I

was there, but boy, we had fun. And the other thing with the football guys in the room, and this is one thing that Goose told me the other night, is they looked at Harold Carmichael as a you know, as tall as the six to eight guy, and he was the first of those type wide receivers coming into the league, and they looked at it and much in the same way as like a Bob Hey, Yes, the big wide receiver. He was the first of those types.

And then and then also, and this really got lost was the fact that Clint Murkison, I don't even think they discussed it, didn't think about it. If not for Clint, we're not sitting here here. This is who knows. Yeah. Yeah, So I mean, how how does that happen, But I you know, I understand, and you know, no one knows who happened. Because to do things right, we're been doing the outside of sports, we've been doing that politics, we've

been doing it socially. Everything that went to crap centuries ago, now we gotta make up foot But I guarantee the people in that room didn't know. I mean some are all might I mean not, some are all. Um Goose probably knows who he was, right, I don't know who else. Madden probably knows, but no one knows Clint and and you know, and yeah, because he was he was in the background. He wasn't a guy that was out front.

What did you get like two years maybe before he passed away, Yes, when he sold the team and passed away. So he wasn't an outfront guy. He let techs run the show. He let Tom and Gil run the show. But if it's not for you, that's right. That's the way it used to be. Right. This is my I'm a rich man and this is my toy. I love being around these guys, right, and the toy has become your staple. Yeah, Now it's a business, that's right, And so that that's the unfortunate thing that no one even

discusses the fact that he didn't get in. And at some point the guy that started the Dallas Cowboys should be in the with the GM many yeah, the coach and Scott Yeah, except for the guy that started the hired everybody. Yeah, all right. And the good news for Drew Pearson, Goose believes that he's going to get in

probably this coming year. Yeah, thanks, okay, Yeah, But I love I love that when when when the guy doesn't get in that you think should get in, and you go and talk to guys and it's like, oh, yeah, I don't know understand how he didn't get in, and it's like a right job. I had some transparency about Remember, I'm glad you said that, because there's one thing I like about and Goose has been a part of what I believe. You know, this this process, it needs to

be transparent, it really. They do in baseball, right, they reveal there's too much bs going on, you know, of course as politics and everything. Even if the media was taken out of it and the players were the first line defense to vote for Hall of Fame, that's still be a lot of politics involved. Let's just be real

about that. But I just like the fact that the veil has been lifted and we can see just what the process is so I can know who the point the finger hadn't blame, and a veil has been lifted on this new Cowboys coaching staff. So when we come back, we will tell you who you can point out and blame next season when we come back. In a moment, since eighteen sixty five, steps and hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Want to

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just okay, It's not okay. Get a great deal with America's best network. Come into an AT and T store to find out how to get one of our popular smartphones for zero dollars down based on GWS one s cour September twenty nineteen is a proud sponsor of the Dallas Cowboys, helping fans see more and do more with our best vision solutions. Our lens technologies reveal a world more beautiful than you can imagine. For a limited time. Get there next gen offer where you buy the latest

generation of trains musicians lenses would select Slore Lenses. You can choose a second pair of clear lenses for free with qualifying frame purchases. Restrictions apply. Find a participating eyecare professional by visiting slur usa dot com. See more, Do More. So you're shopping, and that's when you see it. I old twenty three Doctor Pepper stack from top to bottom as far as the eye can see. The phrase two going to be true comes to mind. Yet there it

is a rich, delicious doctor Pepper paradise. Wait, did did that can of doctor Pepper just open itself for you? They all are as if to say so nice to treat you. And even though it feels weird to talk to. We can you pick one up and say, it's so nice to be treated doctor Pepper, so nice to treat you. Back to talking cowboys. Okay, Mickey doesn't have his material for a Jack Black read fun zillers to pass along, and there's a Jack Black warehouse of some sort in combat.

I can tell you that munch because we were driving to a party the other night and my wife said, look, there's a Jack Black building right there. So there you go, Well maybe we should drive over there and introduce ourselves. We do products. There you go, well they saw you if they saw your beard this morning, which, by the way, I started using that razor. It is really good. I don't know when was the last time you used it.

You hadn't been It's been a while. Friday, I think, I think Friday, because I had to do a TV appearance. All right, all right on Thursday. You had an opportunity, along with other scribes to visit with the head coach, Mike McCarthy. How did that go? It went? I thought awfully? Well, um, and there was kind of two parts to it. We were on the record, We were able to record thing. There was no video allowed. Uh no, texting during the session. I think we were in there for thirty five minutes

with him, maybe a break with him. He did a five minute segment with me up for the Cowboys huddle. First things first, Yeah, and then he came back and it was just off the record, just kind of shooting so tell us all the record stuff. That's what him

not supposed to Bill. But but he was very he was very engaging, and he you know, he had stories and um, you know, and now let's see if this takes continues when there's things on the line, right, And I've heard that like when he gets into press conferences during the season, that he doesn't give away anything. Most coaches don't, right, And that's what everybody wanted to always criticize Jason for. And he's he's he was. I remember, especially when he and Rogers were going at it, he

was very short at his press crisis. You could just see that he was fed up with all of this mess. But he was pretty expansive with us talking. You know, he really answered all the questions and there was really no question that he said, you know, I don't I don't want to answer that. The only thing he kind of hedged his bet On was what sort of defense

they would play. You know, you're gonna play at three to four, you're gonna play a four to three, And he kind of went back and forth, and then he finally said, look, we're gonna have a four man line, and so to take it for what's but they're they're in a sub package. Yeah, and that's eighty five percent of the time. He said, we're in a sub package, so you're a four man line. So but but I thought it was it was instructive that that that basically said I'm not picking players to fit my scheme. I'm

picking the best players available. I'm picking Dallas Cowboy players, and then we'll adjust what we do to the talent we have. And that's on offense, defense, whatever, and special teams whatever. So I thought that was that was good. Uh. The other thing that impressed me was the fact in one week's time he put a staff together, so he knew going in what he wanted to do. You don't just get the job and go mm okay, let me

go out there. He already had a plan that I want Mike Nolan to do this, you know, I want Jim tom Sula. Is that all you say to do this, and so he had this in his and he wanted Kellen Moore. And he pointed out when out of his way to point out that when he was interviewing for other jobs, he had his eye on Kellen Moore to bring him along as his offensive coordinator. Really, so he thought that much of him, of what he did in his personal connection and none other than keeping an eye

on him. From Afar, I spent the last year studying the Cowboys offense. Probably what's happened this last year. And he was like, if I had gone to Carolina or the Giants wherever else he had interviewed, he was like, I was if they didn't keep him here, I was coming after him. That says, and who's calling plays? And then he pointed out, and he's going to call the play says a lot, right, It really did. And he said,

he said, now I'll be involved in the structure. And he and he kind of said that's what he got away from in Green Bay when he didn't call plays. He wasn't involved in the structure of the offense, the game plan in the offense. Uh, And he thought that was a mistake. Yeah, I agree, so so, but this is his expertise. This is why he lasted that long as a head coach. Uh. And he pointed out that, yeah, I'm gonna let him call plays. So that was that was very I'd say, he'll let him call plays, but

he'll have him Yeah, he'll have a card and will right. Yeah. But anyway, the fact that he had all these guys and a lot of them he had relationships with that he hired, which is good. And I learned that lesson back when the Cowboys in eighty nine, when Jimmy came for better or for worse, he brought all his guys

from Miami with him. I think there was like eight guys, yes, right, yes, And he said, I made the mistake when I took the job at Miami and he didn't get the job to the first week in June when Nellenberger left to go, it was going to be a USFL team. I believe that never happened in Miami. And so all he got to do was bring Butch Davis with him, one guy from his Oklahoma state staff, and he said, I there

was no loyalty. The majority of the guys that were left there from Snellenberger staff all wanted the job and they didn't get it, so they were somewhat jealous, and he goes, it was the worst year in coaching I ever had, and he said, so I said to myself, when I ever get another chance, I'm bringing my guys with me. So it wasn't like he hired guys off the Green Bay staff, but guys that he had coached with or at least been with. He coached for Mike

Nolan in San Francisco. He was the offensive coordinator or quarterback or one for one year when Nolan was the head coach at I remember that if you recall, Mike Nolan was very theatrical on the sidelines because he went throwback right sideline and that was very controversial. Yeah, it was he had to get permission to do it. I think I think to get permission first, Yeah, And they were not happy about it, yes, And then he came back and tried to get permission. I don't think they

were happy about it the second time. And it was a tribute to his dad, right, yeah, absolutely, yeah, but you gotta have you still got to have the gear contract. And then I thought it was interesting that when he said you first, I first want to get my coordinators and then let them have a say in who we hire who they hire on their staff. And Kellen Moore spoke up for Doug Nussmeyer and they moved him from

tight ends coach to quarterback coach. And that's the only other coach they've kept unless they decided to keep Leon Let who he wanted to Leon was actually coaching an East West Shrine game, so they going to keep him to get back he wanted to talk to him. Oh, that'd be great. They talked on Sunday. Yeah, yeah, and I bet he Well, I'm thinking unless Leon has something better, Um, I mean he I think the guys reacted to him

pretty well. So we'll see where that one goes. And the other thing that's happened here in the last week, Jason Garrett has landed with the New York Janets and Colombo interviewing there. That's one thing we forget about when it comes to all of his coaching carouselt You know, now, he's got a family, right, I mean, do they all go with him? They're gonna stay here, kids in school? I mean I don't know. No, he's just he and

his wife. Yeah, she might like it here, well, she might but they also probably liked when he was playing there and they lived in Manhattan and that was a while ago. Dude, well it was too. He's got family three and he's got brothers and sisters. I think that still. So I guess we just kind of forget about how no what when one guy gets fired, twenty guys get fired exactly, and every and everybody's moving families. And so think about all the coaches that you know that do

have kids, yes, extended, and it's like lust. Nuss Meyer. I was thinking, oh, man, his son was going to be a senior. People are flower Mound Marcus Dater fans his son, Garrett, who's going to be a senior. And he's a topic quarterback, he's stud coming back senior year. What are they doing? What are they doing? Are they gonna? No? Here? Here? He's here, nuss Meyer staying as a guy, get you know, And yes, and John's son is a quarterback at Frisco ready,

so that that's where they're landing. Yeah. So, but and that's what happens. And then in our final a few minutes here, um, what happens with Jason Witten. That's a good question. I don't have the answer too. I'd love for him to stay on only because of the attitude. I mean he hired he hired a tight ends coach, the guy that was with the Giants, uh Unda Lunda Lunda, Munda Wells, Wells. And I don't know that he wants

to continue. Are you saying staying on as a player or I would love him to come on as a coach because you know it's already established. You know his attitude and how he communicates with the players. You know, sometimes behind the scenes we don't realize, you know, a guy might be a jerk in the locker room, and

but the media loves and the coaches love. No. I think Jason Witten's he's like by all, I think what he said in the locker room people usually agree with and I mean people they count right, they usually agree with it. He pretty much sets the tone in that locker room. What do you make it? The Chris Mortenson Report, I was gonna say, by the way, we can go to noon because there's no show at Okay, Yeah, yeah,

let's do that more. Chris Mortenson Report on Sunday Morning, which said, quoting sources that keep an eye on Jason Witten, perhaps joining Jason Garrett with the Giants and sounded like it a playing capacity if he decides to play. If he decides to play, Yeah, I don't. I don't like that. I mean, I mean that he's gold in New York by himself talking about family's got a little kid. I mean, they're pretty entrenched in the community, and I think that's

why it's more convenient. Well, of course he could just sit out and I do, yeah, and be a dad for a year, and I think that's but he said he did talk to Jason. I might have been phone calls or whatever, and he did talk to Sean Lee. Um so McCarthy did McCarthy didn't. Yeah, so well you got. You gotta think of being a coach is more pressure on the family than being a player. That's kind of hard to say, because I saw I saw the players way more than I saw my family when I played.

Coaches even worse. Yeah, especially depending on who you're coaching for. I mean, when Springs came to UH came to the to the Browns as my last year playing, and everyone always admired Tom Landry's screen passes, and Ron Springs is one of the best screen pass runners because he learned from Tom Landry and the best, and Door said as well, and so Belichick brought him in to help them construct

a good screen pass philosophy within his offense. And he said, no one would leave the office until Belichick turned off the treadmill and turned off his lights. Everybody was just waiting. They let nothing in front of them. They're just waiting on Belichick to leave. Don't you think Saban is the same way. I believe that. I believe that because Saban was one of the guys, he was right there with Belichick.

I'm not going anywhere till he goes somewhere because he was a DC right for the Browns at the time, and the Brons there just as a consultant. So he's up here trying to spread discontent. Hey man, let's go. You ready to go, Ready to go, Let's go out. It's happy hour, like nah. Jason Garrett, Jason Garrett told the funny story when he was unsaving staff at Miami. So he's the first year quarterback coach at the Dolphins with Saban, and it was the year. I don't know

if he'd finished the year. So it was the year Troy Aikman gets into the Hall of Fame, and you know, he kind of wanted to go to the Hall of Fame ceremony and he got invited, and he's like, oh, we got practice on Saturday, you know, Friday, I didn't have to miss and he goes, He goes, but I just felt compelled that I should go since I was

so close to Troy and all those years. And so he finally said, I worked up enough nerve to go into Saban's office and say, Coach, I don't know if I can do this or not, if it's okay, but Troy Aikman is going in the Hall of Fame, and you know, I know, we got practice Friday and Saturday it's training camp. And Saban looked at him, he goes, do you think we can't go through practice without you? Why are you coming to me with this? Go yeah, why are you asking me these questions? I have other

stuff on my mind. But that's the same thing. They're all the I mean, that's coaching, right. Those guys are like that, that's a hard job. Now, the coaches coach because you know that's their job. Players don't want to put in that much time again to coach. Yeah, well, it's a difference now because the physical as opposed to the mental aspect is totally different. Yeah, but still as you get older, I mean, Jason's not that young twenty two year old anymore, So there's still a toll on

you physically and mentally. But when you're talking about playing, I think we take it for granted, you know, as players. I used to get up so all the time, and it didn't it was no big deal. You know, Now that I'm older, I get up, So it's a big because check your That's the difference between you know, your time and your life, and you have to you have to make sure that you understand that. Here's the deal

with Jason Witten. I think he's got the potential to be like a Mike Vrabel or he can be a head coach, whether it's at the major college level, let's say a Tennessee or in the NFL. I was wondering if he was considering going back to Well, that guy might have saved his job. At the end of the they kind of got they and so what do you do to get in that position to be an NFL head coach? Okay, he's got sixteen seventeen years of experience already,

which I think counts for something right there. But as far as a coaching experience, what does it take for him to put himself in that position where he can be in position for a head coaching job. I think he needs to stay on the professional level if he really wants to get back to being a head coach. Stay on the professional level. You have to get with an organization, you get with a coaching staff. To me, it'd be more of a coaching staff where someone can

show you the best way to be a head coach. Okay, Vrabel could have gone anywhere and he learned how to be and here's what coach, but he stayed. I would imagine first off, after he retired, he was at Ohio State linebackers coach for one year and then defensive line

coach for two years. So he spent three years at his alma mater, Ohio State, and then hired by the Texans in twenty fourteen is a linebackers coach, two thousand and seventeen defensive coordinator, and then Texas next year one year is a DC and then to the Tennessee Titans as a head coach. If you were to go back It's like this, if I'm Vrabel versus Witten. Rabel goes back to Ohio State, great program, Witten goes back to Tennessee.

Big difference could be lost there. Yeah, a big difference. Yeah, so when and you know, Vrabel of course played with the Pages, so he's with Urban Meyer at Ohio State. That's the difference. So now you got Jason Jason Witten, who's already a quintessential tight end. So just stay on this level. Not saying the college is beneath you, but

for him, that would be a step back. To me, I think he would stay, should stay on this level, and it would it would be a value to him if he were to on this Cowboys coaching staff, even not coaching tight end. It's probably greater value to him coaching a different position. Special teams fastest of the games exactly,

just in the special teams. Learn something else, right, because I think that certainly helped Andre grid And I don't know what'll happen with him, but you've got a Pro Bowl center here, but he started working with the defensive lineness. Learn another part of the game. Anytime you can make yourself more well, round it, right, Yeah, you take that opportunity. They don't turn it down. When I played, I was like, oh, I'm just a cornerback. Only old people go into safety,

you know, to safety. Where comes Belichick is like, hey, you're going to safety. I'm like, man, cool, yeah. And it made me a better play and really a better teammate, you know. And that that's what I think happens sometimes to head coaches when they have an expertise at one side of the ball, and then when they go and they become a head coach and your expertise is over here, you're at the mercy of the guy over here. That's right, Like take care, I can't fix the defense, you know.

And and if you think about Jimmy, it's like he could kind of keeping a hand on the defense when he first got here. He was at the mercy of his offensive coordinator, you know. And until North Turner got here, the offense struggle. That's why the staff is so important that I'm going back there where about right at all? Right, But he knew talent, not just as a player as player, he knew talented coaches, right. That's that's the strength that you really don't see that in the game these days.

And he heard that about him in one night before an away game, and it was early eighty nine and it was probably and he came he came into the hospitality room and and somehow it came up and he got a cocktail napkin and he's starting guy and grabbing offensive plays. I'll show you a coach. Yeah, yeah, we'll take that thing about if Mike Shuler was in over his head and he couldn't help that side of the ball out and so excuse me, coach, and it's it's it's no knock on on. You know, coaches have egos.

Jimmy have the biggest ego. It's not a bad thing to not know everything. Everybody's not Tom Landry, you know, Tom was. He was a special coaches back man. They had to know. He knew it all the position. And if you think about it, when he hired Tom was a puncher, so he had no specialties as well. When he hired North Turner. And it was at the Super Bowl. We were in Tampa. You're familiar with that Super Bowl.

You happened to be there, right it was he was looking he was looking for an offensive coordinator and he had already been turned down. Interviews for a couple guys, and somebody turned him down. He was thinking of bringing Stevens from the University of Miami in here to do it. They thought he was going to do it. There was a coach at San Diego they couldn't get an interview with,

like Norv was the third or fourth choice. Right that he finally hired, And we were in the middle of the week and spending our week chasing Jimmy because we needed to know who the offensive coordinator was. Finally we're at his hotel in the lobby. He comes down off the elevator and he sees us. He goes, luck, I am not hiring anybody this week. Do yourself a favor. Enjoy the superman that he called off the dogs right, because we're all sitting there wait following his every step

of the way. And then he finally settled on Norv and it was a home run. It was like, are you kidding me? You just hired the wide receivers coach from the Rams? Who Norvil Turner? Who ever heard of this guy? Right? We didn't have Google back then, We couldn't We couldn't google him do figure out who this person was, right, And there was the rest of his history, right, all right? The most significant higher on this coaching staff. Who is it? Oh boy, I hadn't looked at it

that way? Is it? The special team's coach John Fossil? Fossil, I think that's huge. That was a big struggle. Now, I say the D line, but I'm John tom Sula. Tom Sula, I think when you say significant, it's only gonna be significant if it makes a difference. So let's hope it's the most significant pick because that D line. I'm sorry, but that D line is just as complicit in our inability to stop the mrun. It's a lineback. Look at and look at what the forty nine ers

have done with their D line. So let me piggyback on what I said. So the other side of the ball, Mike Nolan, whoever it was, the defensive coordinator. To me, that's what needed to be fixed. You can't score thirty points a game to win every time. You gotta win some twenty four. I did not want to go back to twenty sixteen seventeen to with all offense, no D right. I just I'm tired of that. I want to go back to some type of doomsday I don't care what you call it, but we've got to get a more

staple defensive philosophy. We can't call any boy. Did you see the forty letters. They're trademarking it. They're they're putting it now. They deserve it. They deserve it, and they see the defences. Your quarterback only has to throw what eight passes, and you win a game because you can rely on your running game. What happened to Tennessee was their defense let them down and they had to get

away from the running game. When you have a good defense, it doesn't have to be full of superstars, right, you could just go get some ballers, man, some hungry players. Never heard those guys on Buffalo's defense. I never heard of them. I'm sorry, I never heard of San Francisco. You know some of the guys because you guys reporters and somebody might be from the Texas area. I don't know, except for Richard Sherman and a couple of other guys,

and they're not the ones making all the plays. And then they d the second pick in the draft, Bosa, and so those are the names. You know. The rest of them, they're just ballers, right, Bosa's not carrying them, and he alongside of a heck of a defense. It's an eye for talent. Who was the safety that was all over the place, he was a backup safety. He I can't remember forty nine, Yeah it was forty nine seven.

Once again, Daniel Sorensen, who was the backup one Thorn Hill, who a lot of people fuck the Cowboys should have drafted instead of Tristan Hill and had a great rookie season for Kansas City. He got hurt, so they just put their third safety, Daniel Sorenson in there, and he's making plays on defense. That timing is everything that has at this point turned out to be one of the best defense in the league from game from Week eight on to the season. So defense and running the football,

you guys, it's still important. By the way, they got a honey Badger over there on that gangs mathis and they gotta be happy for him. Yeah, you got Richard Sherman on San Francisco's defense and you got and they're loving each other till I thought they were kissing on Twitter. Makes a big difference. All right, are we bout out of time? We're about out of the green notebook, and in fact, there it is. You haven't seen this every side. I've been looking at all the morning, Big Green NFL

Draft Scotty notebook. It is. He's like Harris, He's got Crepper and I want to know. Look, I've already got names in there. He's the guys I'm studying for the draft starting today. Did you go back to like twenty what fifteen sixteen and you had Raheem Moster in there? I did not think about that. Can't end the show without I did in twenty fifteen. I did after Neil Hunter and he's got over fifty sacks in this league. There, okay, okay, all right, we'll talk at you next time. Cowboys. That's right.

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