Talkin' Cowboys: Full Draft Review; Biggest Surprise?

edition of Talking Cowboys. As we are now less than three months away from the Cowboys arriving in Oxnard, California for the start of training camp, full speed ahead the final three months of this Cowboys offseason. It's been an eventful first three months and now we'll see what the next three months holds. Kick Garrison taking your calls. We went your feedback on what the Cowboys did in the draft over the weekend. I am Bill Jones along with Mickey,

Rob Phillips, Brian brought us. My first question to you, Brian brought us is after so much work that you put in over the last months leading up to the draft, what is it once the draft is over, once Christmas is over? Well, no, it's the fascinating thing about working on the draft is that you're you have all these pieces and now you're putting them with these teams and you kind of understand. And I thought, overall it was

a really fascinating draft. The first round, the way it went, I thought there was going to be more chaos, and there really wasn't any chaos. It was really the Steelers moving up to Denver, and you know, we've thought maybe there was gonna be a little bit moving around. Second round I thought was a little bit better as far as that and some some players taking its spots that you're like, wow, that I would have done that, or you know, and that's when you work on it. Though.

I always remind everybody these teams don't care what we think. But it is kind of fun to say, boy, that makes sense taking that guy there. That makes sense taking that guy there. So afterwards though, it's it's actually kind of a relief because you now you talk about the offseason and things that we can do, and you can kind of see his players come in and you'll see how the staff is going to use them, what positions they canna start off as backup guys or some guy's

gonna get little bit more work. You know, you physically get to see him. I think that's really really good thing for me. I thought he was going to say he went out and got blasted. I haven't done that a long time. I can't handle the hangover anymore. Yeah, I do handle them. I do struggle with that. Yes, you know the roster now, this is pretty much. This is pretty much the twenty nineteen Dallas Cowboys, give or take maybe a couple moves here, and there's minor moves

before training camp. This is what this team is. And and now, like Brian said, we won't see much in rookie mini camp most likely. You know, they're going to have meetings on the field like they did last year, more of an orientation. But once we get at OTAs and in the mini camp, I mean, we'll start to kind of see the shape of this. Well. We will have a second draft. We will have a second draft during the year. It just happens to come where you get to claim players if you want to. Yeah, yeah,

that's second draft. Maybe. Yeah, there's a couple of guys. Somebody will try and sneak somebody through and you're like, not so fast, We're gonna take that guy. That's that. But Rob's right, gets after the final cuts. That's that's kind of where the personnel guys look as a little

bit of a second draft there. So we'll see if kaboys have done a nice job helping themselves with free agency the minor deals that they were able to make, and I think it allowed them to really kind of have a nice plan for how they executed the draft to three days that they were allowed to do that. Yeah, they didn't have to do a lot of reaching because they kind of covered themselves in free agency for the

most part with some very low price veteran contracts. Uh. And so they could just sit there and say, you know, I don't need this or I don't need that, and force the issue and so, uh yeah, I think you know, Rob's right, we know what the roster is. Now let's go. It'll be interesting to see is when we go back and as you study this some of the players that and it's always the exercise that you do of players they took and then players they potentially could have taken.

You know, it's always it's all those things you could go far back and and it's oh you should have taken, you should have taken. But there were some players they legitimately thought about at their pick that they that when it came to their time, they had to make a

decision on this guy or this guy. And I think that's where sometimes you can look and say, Okay, well the guy that they take, how does he pan out as opposed to you know, I'm sure some people have gone back and looked at Layton Vanderesh around the league and gone what we were thinking about Layton Vanderesh. Yeah, if you're gonna redraft, If you're gonna redraft, yeah, Layton Vanderish would probably be a top eight pick, you know,

if you're going to redraft that draft. So uh, you know, everybody can do it, and it'll be fascinating due time if how that all works out. You know, Bail, what's that big long list I see you have in front of it. That's the draft. I just keep tracking throughout throughout the draft. I write them all down, and you got circles on certain guys. I go back, okay, if you must, I got the entire draft right here, look

at that all right in order? Yeah, and well I lost my sheet on the first three where in the other sheet that we get the pr people give us whatever I left it up here after the first day, okay, after this second day. Yeah, that sheet right there, that's what I normally, I left it up here. We were taping a show or something, and I left it up here. You mean, so neatly risen all Saturday stuff, fourth, fifth, sixth,

and seventh rounds right here. And then I got another notebook over here where I keep throughout the entire season, where I've got every team in the league here, and so these circles is I stayed up late on Saturday night or Sunday, I don't remember what night it was, and I took the draft picks and put them over here on the teams. It's fun. It's what I do. I'm a geek. I'm sorry, kind of like, go print this out. No, I'm going old school. I'm going to

old school in my old book. Got that here, fortunately, I mean I could just looking at him, you know what. No, but where it helps me. And the reason I do this is because when I do the preseason game, you know where there are when I write it down, I committed more to remember no question, no questions that I had, I had a how I learned it. I had written all the in the slots. I'd written it all in pencil, but then I keep the sheet because I keep both.

But you're right, they kind of remember. It allows you to remember where these guys went and potentially what we learn about the players, and then it just helps so much as you go on through the season and so forth, when you're playing against you know, the New England Patriots and no Kenel Harry, Yeah, the state you know. Yeah, here comes to the millennial. I just let the draft cast on NFL dot Com just update for me and

I go back. I just log on. But yeah, you guys used me merely in years because that's my hand, right. I merely told you that there is a draft cast online if you can't find it, you know. And actually, back when I was doing ranger games, I used to be more computer and this is before everyone else was on computers. In the broadcast booth, I had a computer

and everything. But I've just found over time that if I look at the draft as my spring semester of school, I'm in a class and I'm learning all these players. And it's not only for the preseason games that I do, but for the next however long they're in the league. That's how I learn who the players are so anyway, all right, so there was just curious. Yeah, that's all right there. Um, so you were saying, you know, uh, it is interesting what you're talking about the guys that

they were choosing from. All right, we we all talk about and Mickey brought it up about the team taking care of what they needed to in free agency where they could actually go out and play a game by the time the draft hit, they don't have to take

a player at a certain position. But when you look at the inventory at defensive tackle going forward, how much of a priority do you think defensive tackle was for this team where they felt like they really needed to get someone who might be a three technique for them.

We will see if the second round pick is. But when you look at it, they didn't have anybody basically under contract a year from now at defensive tackle that seemed to be a need position a year from now, if not now, I think it was somewhat of a

priority for sure, based on what you just said. And to Brian's point, that was an example right there at fifty eight where you're looking at it and they loved Tristan Hill, but they also like Juan Thornhill to safety out of Virginia, and they kind of decided what's a more impactful position, and they went with the defensive tackle who's got some really impressive trades, a guy like I mean you studied him a lot, Brian really quick for his frame, a guy that can wreck plays from the

middle of the yeah. Yeah, and they went with that over safety, which by the way, is another position though that you get to twenty twenty and it's like, what's it gonna look like because you got some contracts up there too. Yeah. That's That's where I'm looking at right now, is because if you mean Tristan Hill was selected and then you still had guys like Adderly, Rap and Thornhill

all on the board. Yeah, and those were kind of the names that we were So it really did work out how we thought all these guys would come off. I mean it was they were all those names were kind of I was surprised at Rapp got there, But again, it's the speed. The more you talk about teams around the league or talk to teams around the league, they knew the fourth seven speed was going to be a problem. I e't asked Rod mary Nelly about that. He says,

tremendous player, but he's a four seven guy. You know, I'm like, okay, But now Thornhill Thornhill was a discussion in that room. You know that that was one of those things that you know, they really really had to hone in on. And if you think about it, probably that Tristan Hill and Thornhill probably had to ride around the same grade. It was the way they were stacked that you know, Hill being over Thornhill that you know

swayed him that way. But uh, that that's gonna be That's gonna be the one thing that I'm going to look at as we go three years from now. How did Triston Hill play as opposed to how did Adderly play rap play and Thornhill play? You know, is just in my mind because I myself I had very similar grades. I might personally myself I would have gone with Thornhill over Hill, But I understand why they did what they did just because of what you're talking about, the contracts

and stuff like that. The you know, MALIEK. Collins has been banged up. He plays games, but he's banged up. He doesn't practice all the time. So uh, you know, Hill can come in and give him something at that three technique, just like Rob probably had a great job of describing what the player is, and I think they

see him the same way. I think that's one of the fun things about doing the research you're leading up to the draft, where you have your own players that you that you fit on this team, that you feel like, and you can make an educated um assumption of Okay, I understand why they went this route. If I was in there, I think I would have gotten this route. Oh no, we could play the game. If you study

the guys, you could play those games. But to look comparing the two careers, then they go, no, no, it is It is one of those things where you know, and again I reminded everybody on the Draft show, I think they don't care what we think. You know, we consider our job is to try and analyze all these

picks and why we thought that Dave so. But but you know, you know, those those grades for Thornhill and Adderale and wrapping those guys to me were not too far off of Tristan Hill, so that you know, they obviously had to make a decision there, especially with Thornhill. Especially with Thornill, and so the defense of backcoach my

understanding made an emotional plea for the defensive tackle. Yes he did, and he basically told him, if I have a defensive tackle that's disruptive, my safeties will play better. There you go, My safeties can't make that defensive tackle play better. And I think that spoke volumes when you know, assistant coaches can be very uh, you know, worried about their own position, and he wasn't. He was. He was

worried about the entire defense. And I think that's what swayed him to go big instead of going to a safety. And as we talked before, was he going to be

a walk in starter? You know, maybe not Day one might have been down the line, but you know, typically the second round it would be even if he showed the qualities, it'd be mid season before because the coaches would have to be he would have to gain their trust before they said, okay, you're playing instead of Jeff, he took a took an injury and a decision for Layton Van Rush to get on the field. It's true coaching he trust. The first three games started off the

first round pick. Yeah, absolutely, So I thought I just thought him not being selfish, I think spoke volumes of looking at the big picture instead of taking care of my own little position. And if you go back to what Steven Jones said in the pre draft press conference, you know a lot of a lot of what's said. You know, they're not trying to tip their hand there. But one thing he did say about safety was if there's a big time playmaker there, we'll look at it.

We've looked at that before, but it's not a huge priority for us. And that turned out to be the case. I mean, they were looking for depth at safety in that draft, and then they ultimately got Donovan Wilson I think in the sixth round. But I don't think they felt like they could wait on a interior linement of that talent, you know, past the second round, and say, oh, we'll find one later. They didn't think that was possible. And that's the other part of it is, Okay, Tristan

Hill was their late second round. As we talked about leading up to the draft that one of the strengths of this draft was front seven defensive players and defensive linemen and Brian where were they as far as a potential three technique Once behind Tristan Hill on their board. You think, I mean where one of the that was that was anywhere near that? And then and you're absolutely right, Bill, that's you know, maybe whyse you know who they end

up getting in the free agency. It was a fourth round, which tells you, Okay, they were at the end of the if they don't take this one here, then they're not getting one. Yeah. As far as the three, I mean, they had a choice, you know, they could have gone. I believe Jones was another consideration. Uh yeah, Draymond Jones from a house state. But they obviously didn't like Draymond Jones enough they make the pill. But yeah, if you're if you're going down the board, my guests again, my

guess I'm looking at my board. I had a fourth round grade on whys and that probably would have been the next three technique that you probably would have had to deal with. They brought in Gerald Willis from the University of Miami. He was a guy that went undrafted. They brought him in to kind of look and see, you know, they wanted to get some background. There were

some issues and there's some issues there. So obviously they got the information they wanted out of that and uh you know so, uh, the kid Kiki from Texas A and M would have probably been another consideration. But then you're thinking about fifth round guy there. So they were, they were, and they were kind of a spot where

they had to where they had to grab guys. I mean, you look at all those those three techniques that went Quinnon, Williams and you know, Oliver Simmons, Wilkins, Tillery, all those guys went fast. And so now you're sitting there thinking, okay, well we're down to the Draymond Joneses and down to the Tryson Hills. So they had they had to they had to make that determination to get that done. You know, Marinelli fell in love with absolutely, Yeah, he sure did.

If you look at the positions that were drafted, you mentioned Jones defensive tackle got drafted after that. The only other guy that was listed as a defensive tackle before the one hundred and twenty fifth pick that got drafted, according to this sheet here was Kaylin Saunders, uh, the Western Illinois by the Chiefs one. So okay, so the next guy that I see that got drafted as a defensive tackle, you had to go down to one twenty five Ronelle Wren by the Bengals. Yep. And so obviously

the defensive one, another one and another one technie. So I don't see any other three techniques that were taken. And if you didn't take him, now everybody says, well you could have done both, Well could you? You know if that if you like the guy, you better take them the same thing like what the Giants did. You know, everybody can criticize him for Daniel Jones, but if that's

your guys, take them. But Brian's right, I mean, Daniel Wise is a guy they really liked in the free draft process to get him as an undrafted guy's really they're really happy with what it looks like this free agent class is gonna be. Yeah. And the other thing is you're right, like you gotta go back and look at what these safeties do down the line. But I do know they feel really good about Xavier Woods as

one of their young safeties. You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna laugh at me for saying this, but I've got if you if you talk, we have we have. They released their free agency. I've seen It's not all reports, and some of these schools announced it for the guys OK, but Wise was a guy right he's listed. Hyatt from Clemson had a fifth fifth round grade on him. This uh Joan Johnson Joe A. Johnson from h from Yeah,

he's a guy, has sixth round grade on him. Westy the corner from Kentucky has sixth round grade on him. And then Ricky Walker who was a defensive tackle like a one technique or three who they got. He I had a seventh round grade on him from Virginia Tech. So if you look at what Chris Hall and that crew did, was they took I named just named four guys off their board off or excub me five guys off my board that they got as free agents after

the draft. So you think about you know, if if all of a sudden you hit on and they do this every year, these guys hit on some type of undrafted free agent. And I give Chris holland those guys a lot of credit because they don't move those tags off those boards. The first thing they attack or those those kids that are on that board, and once they get those kids, then they work their way down to the Dallas priority free agents. But if you added five

draftable players that I thought were draftable players. But I'm I'm I'm giving you high marks for doing that kind of work. I bet you they were considering Mitch Hyating with one of those late picks, because I recall it was either six or seventh round. Yea Colombo being in the room right, and I've thought if I started looking at my list, going okay, well who could they be looking at this? And I thought Mitch Hyatt might be, yeah, this is where and good good analogy or good observation

on your part. We were working the draft on the third day and we were watching the war room camp and it was late like you were talking about, and they had that seventh round pick, they had that last seven and Colombo I'm sure was in there about Hyatt. I'm sure he was in there, not so much maybe drafting him, but he was kind of alerting Steven Jones and and Will McClay and Jerry Jones signability, signability. I goes, hey, we're having to battle teams here. We might have to

make this pick. This might be our guy that we have to use this pick on. He was maybe talking about or maybe he was telling him, oh, no, hey, we're good with We're good with Hyatt. We're good. We don't have to do anything else. We're going to sign this kid if it doesn't get drafted, and we'll be fine. So Ian Colombo was in there, probably probably telling him a little bit gimmle bit of scouting report about Hyatt and where he was in as far as assignability or

needed be draft ability there. Now he was a four year starter tackle. Did he consensus all? Why did he fall through? Brian? He's young. There's a there's a kid roam or two from San Diego State that didn't get drafted. There was two, there was two. There was two or I had had five tackles total, Uh, two one in the fifth was was Romer and then Hyatt was sorry two in the fifth and Hyatt being one of them that didn't get picked. I got it right here, Yeah,

I think. Uh. In fact, I was listening to Bill Polian uh last week and he was talking he was on NFL Serious NFL Radio, and he was talking about the measurables at different piso short armed guy or something. It was about forty times with offensive lineman. And if you'll look at tackles in the league, either left or right tackles there, if you have a greater than a five one forty time, you're worse than a five one forty times you're not gonna make The odds are you're

not gonna make it in this lake. Mitch Hyatts was five two nine with a one eighty six ten yards split. That's a that's just an example of some measurable that might make him in the eyes of scouts. Well, I know, I know it hurt. Harmon, the wide receiver from North Carolina State didn't went in the sixth round. I know that for a fact because all everything else, and he's a Washington get ready for him to catch about twelve

balls a game on your right there. He's one of those kids, right, yeah, I mean he might run four, five nine or four six, but get ready for him to catch about twelve balls on you. So I saw I saw some of the guys. I guess I don't know if they've signed or agreed to, but the Western guy, yeah, Kentucky. And so here's here's something that started this year. They're

guaranteeing these guys money an offset. Yeah, and and basically if if they don't make it, but they make it on the practice squad, then the money's basically the same. So they guaranteed now. His thing said, they guaranteed him one hundred thousand dollars. And if you figure out what you get paid on the practice squad, it comes out to about one hundred thousand dollars if you're there for seventeen weeks. So this was something new. The other thing was,

and Brian, you can speak to this. There was a lot of calling going on around the league, like in the seventh round. Oh yeah, to start courting. Oh, it's nice to be free. Yeah, I mean before it used to be Okay, the bell rings, it's over, now, grab the phone now. They were telling they were calling guys before that to say, hey, we're probably not going to draft you, but we sure like to sign you. This is where Dallas Day is a huge advantage for these guys.

See these guys, they see these guys, they recruit these guys, and you got one of the best closers in the league. If you could get Jerry Jones on a phone, he will sell. He will sell somehow college. Yeah, he will sell somebody. The opportunity, he will sell somebod the opportunity. Don't want to buy, don't get off, don't go into the room. I'll tell you what, We're gonna write some reports that this kid is. They signed this kid, this jailing guiton from North Texas. Right, Well, I didn't know

much about this kid. I know, I know there was some serious legal problems there that they kind of had to work through. But if you if you you look from what I understand, just kind of talking to some people again, that draft board they had of the guys that they had signed, they had they had uh, let's see, they had seven guys I believe that were draftable grades that they signed after the draft. Seven And I think about that, you know, I mean, that's just that's like

a whole other draft. Second draft. Yeah, that's we talked about the second draft board. But but yeah, but it's like, you know, you add if you're adding players off your draft board and you're not just signing, You're not just giving five thousand dollars to Brian broad Us out of LSU who's not going to make the team. But if you go out and you get guy like Guidon and Johnson and notice high in Westery, I mean, these guys

at least your practice squad to look good. You know what I'm saying unless somebody comes along and says, whoa wait a minute, we kind of like hiet too, and oh, by the way, we like, yeah, if he's an undrafted guy, he's probably gonna be on the practice squad. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's gonna be able to make it. It's like it's like that's why they're giving that guaranteed. Donovan Alumba is

a great example. I think Donovan Alumba is a name that I'm throwing out there now that Chris Rshard and those guys will talk about when we get to OTAs And I gotta be careful this year not to cheer lead for certain guys because I get him a camp and then they fail. But Donovan Alumba is a guy that I know this for a fact. You know they got him last year. He was on the practice squad the whole entire year. Again, like some of these guys are probably gonna be and now he's gonna be ready

to play some meaningful snaps for you. Him and the ward kid that they sent to Kansas City for the trade. Yeah yeah, yeah, he ended up starting for a Kansas late year at But those are the two guys I mean, they were they We're planning on those guys being you know, there was a plan keep on the practice squad work with him. But Donovan Olumba was getting snaps with the first defense like Chris ruh Schard was throwing him in. Maybe they have eight snaps, he gets two, but at

least like Richard Sherman. Yeah, because he looked like Richard Sherman. Well, what maybe west does is he really six s? This is the test. This is gonna be the big test, the Kentucky corner. Yeah, yeah, four three yeah, And it's actually I think they got him in four three three. I think the Cowboys have him in six four at six four six four and a half yeah, six a

half and a half. And the thing about Westery though, is though that this will be the test because he was not a he was not a starter at Kentucky. He Kentucky had some tall long corners at tall long safeties. And they know they've done a nice job up there. By the way, Stoop's done a good job coaching coach the defensive. Now he's not anymore, he's coaching coach, but he but Dave, but this Westreet, it's not often that the six four and a half corner. Let's see if okay,

is he a leggy guy. Is he gonna be able to turn? He gonna be No, No, he's got this guy's got some ability and Scott but yeah, but he will be off. Prescott broke his streak of two hundred and eighty nine straight passes without an interception. Here you go, So yeah, this is a this is a six four and a half guy. And now we'll see. Okay, oh, there's a reason to have these corners that have length and have reach. The problem with Westreet and that's swear. Guys,

you're gonna notice it right off the bat. He's a grabber. I mean he is an immediate grabber, you know, and then and then once he grabs you, and then he kind of gets himself in position. He needs to trust his trust his ability a little bit more. But the first thing you're gonna say it camp, you're gonna see me and go you're right because or you're watching with drills, you're right because he's he's like initially a grab and hold and then turn kind of a guy. So what

about break? We gotta take a break question, We're gonna we're we're gonna ask a question about Brandon Somebody Yes, and we're Grand Night Italy when we come back on top.

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dot com Forward Slash Cowboys. You just add the fifty eight part to it. Yeah, I did, I improvised? Or if you're picking ninety or ninety or one twenty eight and trade and then one thirty six and trade down No. One forty five and then one fifty eight or something like it. All right, don't miss your chance to see the Cowboys live at at and T Stadium this season. You won't want to miss these exciting matchups when the Giants, Eagles, Packers, Rams,

and more come to Arlington. Get your tickets now at Dallas Cowboys dot com. In fact, Josh Rosen and the Miami Dolphins are coming here on September twenty second. Did you know that, Mickey? I think I did. Will Dwayne Haskins be starting for the Washington Redskins? Shouldn't we go to Washington? The second week of the season should be Eli Manning will be starting for the Giants with Daniel Jones backing up the first week in the season. That was a popular pick. There you go. I mean, who

does Haskins have to beat outbase Keenum? Is case Keenum? That's it? Rights hurt yep. And of course Alex Smith is gone, probably for the year, I guess right, maybe his career yep. So anyway, young division of quarterbacks now, huh okay, in the next half of them, you're gonna ask a question about someone named Brain. Can you remember that for a couple of minutes. I can't because we have to go to Italy. Marco in Italy is first

up on talking Colbost there, Hey, guys, what's up? Thank you for taking I call no problem listen first and foremost, hats off to Brian and Micky forgetting it right as regards to the draft. On Thursday, commenting on Tristan Hill, Brian wrote, and I quote, I would not be shocked at all if he was a selection for this club at two fifty eight, and on Friday, Micky wrote, and I quote, Saturday will be about the time in the

Cowboys go to the safety route. And likely running back and possibly corner back to you guys are amazing, so Mike comments and dollars draft. I like the logic a lot. It made a ton of sense to invest on both offensive and defensive line, especially since I believe that, with the exception of quarterback, linemen are the most difficult spots to fit in effectively during the season. So it's a huge advantage to have these players in these roles from the beginning. So thumbs up from me in the draft.

Now following free agency, in the draft, three questions, one for each unit. I will start with special team. I'm a bit surprised that Dallas did not add a kicker via free agency or tick one in the last rounds in twenty eighteen. Myer went twenty nine on thirty six. They missed twenty percent of the field goals is attempted.

These are not good numbers. The last season, six out of sixteen Dallas regular season games were decided by three points or less, so this aspect of the game can termine if they make or miss the playoffs or the home field advantage. So what's your view on the gig in situation? Second question on defense after Amary Cooper joined last season, the Cowboys on losss or losses came versus

the Titans, the calls and the Rams. The Titans run thirty six times one hundred and twenty five yards, the calls run thirty nine times four hundred and seventy eight yards, and rams run forty eight times fo two hundred and seventy three yards. So what's your view on Dallas run, defense, postcraft, and free agency because I think this was the Achiles heal last year. And finally and offense, do you think the next season we will see even more emphasis on

bold control? I'm asking because they selected to running backs in the draft. Plus with the editions of Randolph Cobb and the returner Jason Whitton, they have two players with good hands and good route skills that can do damage in short jadges situation. Together with the running threat so Zeke and deck in the returns Frederick, this should allow Dallas to keep the boat for a huge portion of

the game. Do you know what are killing more? And doctor Prescott's preferences to that respect, I think it would be the right way to go and it would beak the defense. Alio. With that, we'll hang up and listen to your answers. As always, thank you for your sending coverage. I look forward to talk to you again the next future. Love y'all, goodbye. All right, Marco conducting Talking Cowboys in Italy. Yeah,

that's what I'm saying, Talking cowboys in the Italy. We need seventeen hours and twenty five minutes to answer all the questions. All good questions, by the way, good question. Kicker, have you seen a kicker on the report? No, they have to know they had they They're probably not going to add a kicker. Maybe they will later, but initially didn't like that we're going to do that. I know

they see a redfern, a punter earth who's already. Yeah, they brought they brought several guys in through Dallas Day. I need to get to Dallas Day. I know they brought in four kickers for Dallas Day. So maybe we'll see somebody when we all get on the plane to go to Oxnard. There might be a kicker add it at that point in time. Maybe they bring in a guy for the rookie mini camp and not a tryout

basis exactly. Just didn't kind of see, but I didn't get to sound like they were going to do that though, because because it's not a really no, are you sold on that guy? I think the caller Marco Mark he makes I think by the end of the season numbers number. I mean, to his point, the fifty plus yarders. You felt better about with maher a lot of the time late in the season than those money kicks from those two games. It was like things were fading so wrong.

I do think overall they felt pretty good about what he did, though he made some big kicks for him too last year. So run defense, I wouldn't call that the Achilles heel. I think for much of the year that was your strength. If you want to look at the Rams game, yeah it wasn't good. Colts bad too, but those are really the two games you look at, and so what do you think happened? I mean, it was the same guys playing that fourteen other games. Let

me tell you what. What the two best offensive lines I thought they played last year, they were just better than I just felt like that that you're dealing with the Rams team. And I don't think it had anything to do with rest or what anything, because the Rams weren't exactly winning games at the end they were kind of kind of spewing. They were trying to get home field and couldn't get it, you know, at the end. But that's still that offensive line what they've done at

the Rams. And then of course the Colts the Cults are gonna be a problem for a lot of teams because their offensive line is, I think is outstanding. Its Yeah, yeah, they got They've got you know, another rookie Smith Smith from Auburn. Yeah, I mean they've got some guys that was that was just a more a more physical bunch than the Cowboys. I now, the way your hope is that that the human log. You know, he's got his

shoulder fixed. He looked good in the Caffe Cherry yesterday walking by wavings saying hello physically, look who he's out there working out. This Christian Covington. If you watch the Houston Texans play last year, that's a good front as a really good front. And I felt like that Christian Covington was a little bit of an underrated guy for them. I don't know why. I guess you can't pay everybody, and they didn't pay him, you know, they didn't even

try and keep him. But the tape I watched, you know, when they were running twist stunts and stuff, Nicols stuff. He's in there. He's like a post. He's post getting position. He's getting Wat home or Miracus home, or you know, he's getting guys home, you know, to to kind of get rush, you know, Clowney, those guys are getting home because he's being physical, you know, playing inside. So Rod Merry,

I think they've upgraded. If you look at Hill and Covington and Hyder, you know they've upgraded from the reads. We still have Ross here, right, I mean, Ross was a guy that was I thought was okay, but they needed they needed upgrades and and and I think that's where they helped themselves with that defensive tackle spot. But I just personally, I think that the Colts and the Rams just kick their ass. They did. That's kind of how I feel about that. Those are the two best

they played. So those I just thought those two teams hard matchup for the Cowboys. Yeah, and they were physical, but they used the Cowboys aggressiveness against her, like you want to come upfield, go ahead, We're coming in behind you. Yeah, and you know, and maybe it helps run defense. I mean, Lawrence had a nice season right, right, Oh, now his shoulders should be better. You mentioned Antoine Woods, right, shoulders should be better Blee Collins knock on Wood staying healthy

because he played her last year again. Yeah, so yeah, and then the wild card and all that is Tyrone Crawford. Where do you want to play him? Right? You know, it would be nice if you can play him inside, if the defensive end spot is solidified and can stop the run every once in a while. I like the too, I mean I I could say I like the kids they added to this on the defensive inside of it. Just looking at how about the numbers they've thrown at this thing? Now, it's a lot. I mean, Derek and

I were talking about that. It's like who makes the gate more? Ted, I don't know if you can keep them all well really yeah. The hope is if you have to maybe get a couple of the practice squad, but or maybe use them for maybe you can use them for a trade trade somebody, you know, maybe maybe at lest you get into this thing and somebody's got the surplusit safety we were talking about. And now instead of drafting a guy, maybe you get a one or

two year guy. It's already been in the league, it's somebody's kind of given up on and you know, you have a you have a guy you want to move on. Maybe, you know, hey, let's be honest, you know, maybe Malik Collins. Maybe you move on from somebody that's contract is up, you know, to try and try and get another position and maybe get a or get draft picks or you or you get story pick out of that. Yeah, but

that's a way. Yeah. I think he over he overthought the running back question that because they drafted two running backs, they're gonna be a ball control they need. I think they needed at least one candidate to be the every down backup to challenge. This is on Darius Jackson and Chun Right, Yeah, where Mark where Marco's right though is and he said the right name Kellen Moore. Yeah, you know how they use Pollard is on Kellen Moore. Right.

I don't need to go to Oxnard with all of us on that plane and then by day five, practice five or practice six, I am not seeing Pollard involved. Now. If Pollard is not smart enough, and obviously they know if he's smart enough, I mean, they do a lot of work on these guys. They bring him in put him on the board. Gary Brown obviously loved him. Kellen Moore I was told, really loved the guy. I think the Webber pick, by the way, guys, I think the value of Webber was just too great for them to pass.

If you think about talking to some folks about Webber third fourth round type grades on that exactly saw one list that had him ranked the sixth running back. Yeah, no, I don't know, ye good batter otherwise, but somebody thought something. Well, I tell you what though, the Cowboys thought something of him because if you if you honestly his grades, his grade and Pollard's grade were very similar, very from what

I was told, and similar and round too. I think I think that that with with Webber maybe a little bit of tick higher, but the but again, they felt like they needed to do something to get part done. Now we'll we'll also look at that when that selection went on. There were some players on the board too as well when that So that's what it was in

my mind. In the fourth and the fourth, the long, the long Isaiah Johnson, that's the one I'm gonna kind of keep my eye on because again, you've added Westery, you kind of have a little bit need at corner in due time. Mickey keeps telling me, I'm next year, I'm losing two corners probably, and the following year after that, I'm losing another two corners probably. So we need to kind of think about you think they head in mind when they traded down and then they traded down again,

or or did they have someone YouTube. I think they really I think they really want I think they liked this Mike Jackson so much that they felt like that located too early. It's too early to take Mike Jackson. Now, let's see if we could keep back up and take them. So they did. They parlayed Mike Jackson and it really did two picks, but they loved the kids. And then think of all of the you talked about these seven

undrafted guys that they had grades. Yes, yeah, So at that point they're sitting there going we get all these guys that we would be willing to spend sixth or seventh round picks on, and we got one seventh round pick. We need to pick up late sixth early seventh round picks. And so they were able to do that by trading down twice, and it helped them. It helped them grab a safety, grabbed the safety. It helped them grab you know, if you think about they didn't have a sixth round

pick going to this draft. Weeber was the sixth round pick, right, so they picked up a third round guy on the go. Yeah, Wilson was a sixth round Okay, I'm sorry, yeah, well okay, yeah, so the seventh jokes when was jelfs two forty one the two seven? There were two seven round safety and a running back with those two that they see, so I'm saying, and they're thinking about what think about who they picked up? Then they picked up the safety they probably you know it maybe had a fifth round grade

on him, and they had position meat position. And then they turned around and grab a running back that they got a third round grade, three fourth grade on And that was just like you said, that was a blinking light type thing, best available. Well, Connor McGovern was that way too. Yeah, you said it today in the round table. Yeah, and Jason Garrett even said it himself. Because they're holding on a couple of guys. They're holding on Where we were at that DRAF We're in the second third round

right there. Okay, there were two guys I know they were holding on. They were holding on Justin Lane. Actually before that, Will Harris, the safety from Boston College, they brought in as a thirty visit guy. To him, he was a thirty busy guy. Okay. He goes to Detroit at three eighty one. Okay, okay, well we still got we still got lane. We still got Justin Justin Lane up there from Michigan State. And then he turns around Pittsburgh does his tea all the time. You know, three

eighty three, they take Justin Lane. So now you're thinking, like, okay, we just lost our two guys. It's almost like Pittsburgh when they took Ryan Shazier and then you end up taking Zack Martin. You know, you're like, okay, who is the next player on that board? You know, and I guarantee that I from hocket. Some folks they had a second round grade on McGovern. He was the last second

round grade. That's yeah, absolutely yeah. So you're sitting there in the third round and you're like going, okay, wait a minute, I'm we're all reading into and it's the potential, and it's the potential to move guys around. But to your point's damn near the fourth round. Yeah, when you're picking and this guy's sitting here, and it's like, all right, why not continue to fortify our offensive line. It's the strength of our team. We had a bunch of injuries

and Travis's illness last year, Like, yeah, why not. Connor McGovern was fifty fourth on your list, right, and he was thirty one on Gil Brandt's list. Yeah, there you go. See that's what I'm saying. I mean, there's a lot of people that had Gil's probably more right than me, but but I'm just saying that to me that that makes a lot of sense. That's one of those times you go solid joy, you say, oh best available player. Yeah, best available player. Absolutely, that is the perfect example of

best available, perfect example. But it was an immediate competition coming in here. But the question was about Pollard. We started with four, six, seventh, had third, but Pollard. But Pollard is a dimension that they didn't have. If Kelly, if exactly they give he gives him a pass catcher on the outside, he's gonna have to develop. He's gonna have to develop some blocking. There's gonna have to be some Gary Brown will work with that. Yeah, Gary Brown

will work with that. But the key is this is now. Marco was right, this is on Kellen Moore, Kellen Moore, don't let this kid be a week two, a week three, a week six, a week eight, inactive, don't need that any better. Be the first guy up on kickoff returns when they start. Oh he will. This cat's I know this, Havan Austin, this guy, this cat I've seen when continue

you here on talking Cowboys. He also mentioned Jason Witten and Randall Cobb and what about Tavon Austin And what about that question about someone named Brandon when we come back. If you're like me and you love I mean, if you have a HI thing, then cutting the chord is scary. But then I found out I could switch it DirecTV Now and still get the live sports I love. No satellite needed, no polky hardware, no annual contract, just that the live sports you love. Tried direct TV now for

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can ask questions. You glyptus for us? Yeah, you want me to spell it? You see it? All right? All right? US market Kent and I said it right. It was pad to write it right here there it is online. All right. There you go get Jack Black. Get it. You're gonna ask something I was gonna ask, Mack. You get the cut on this stuff now, now I have butt stuff from so I get that they were I didn't know. If I didn't know that, you got you on the payroll and the board of directly should he

is Mickey supported director members. A matter of fact, I ordered some stuff and it hadn't come yet. I didn't check on that. All right, who's this Brandon guy you're asking about? Offensive tackle? Brandon Knight. Brandon Knight. I do not know a thing about Brandon got he got some guaranteed money. Yeah, no, I need to watch him. I have a combo guard for the Phoenix Suns. That's all I know. Brevin Knight, Brandon and Brevin actually, but yeah, I don't. I don't know about this. Brandon go to

college in Brandon. Which Brandon, which about your brand Kentucky? That's what I thought. I liked him at Kentucky. Yeah, yeah, all right, sorry to get us in the ditch, Cowboys. Brandon Knight playing hop Scotch over now. Marco in Italy also mentioned the name of Marco show, Jason Witten and Randall Cobb when he was talking about the ball control offense. Yeah, I don't buy any of that. Mickey said it speed speed, speed,

because Cobbs got it. We know Pollard has it. And Witten's more crafty at this stage at thirty seven, I'm his age. I know. Um, are you crafty in certain ways? Sure? Yeah? Was he ever fast. Yeah, I think he for his position. Yeah here six one out of college. He was a mismatch guy. Yeah, back ten years ago. Um Tavon although, like you mentioned Bill before the break, Tavon and Pollard very similar skill sets, so that that might be an

interesting competition to watch and training camp. Even Webber's got some speed for his time speed, so they've added that. I mean, Kellamore's got some speed to work with now going forward gallop too, well, you look well. And if Tavon, I think his his deal is one point seven with five hundred guaranteed. So yeah, I mean Briting was on the wall there to begin with, you know, coming into this season, and yeah, I don't think there. I don't think they're married to him at all. M Yeah, So

I mean, but how about the competition. Yeah, a wide receiver if you know, when you evaluated, when you when you can consider Pollard as a running back slash receiver. You know, I do think they would add to that mix too, And when you look at what they did, I think they would have liked to maybe draft a receiver to develop. But again, you mentioned some guys that reportedly they may be getting here that you know like you mentioned a guiding stuff, so guiding can run. He's

for three nine. If you watch that North Texas tape, it's for getting Devin Smith. Yeah, sign yeah, if you took one, they had to be better than Devin Smith and Cedric Wilson's like your draft choice. Get about those guys. Yeah, I mean he didn't play, so we need to go to Camp sung Rimmer. All these games you've added, you've added basically two guys to the to the mix there, which brings me to my crazy pick at number fifty eight. You're crazy pick number fifty eight. I wanted Jalen Hurd.

I love that. Where did he go sixty seven to San Francisco? Yeah? Yeah. We spent like a whole segment on him last year. And if you talk about you're going to compare Tristan Hill with one Thorn Hill, my deal, I'm gonna be comparing it with Jalen Hurd. And here's one of the reasons, as it fits with the Cowboys.

Jalan Hurd could play slot receiver and he can play running back, and you can put him on the field that f position in the Cowboys offense, and teams don't know whether you're running the ball or throwing the ball, because he's a legitimate running back and he's a legitimate slot receiver and we're watching, we're watching. Ken always puts up these highlights. He's running the ball at Tennessee. Here we go. If you're watching along with us, Kat's carrying

the football for the Valls. You know Stef the Missouri Tiger there, I think, yeah, and so anyway, that's my guy that I applachan state, Mickey, I'm sorry. San Francisco took Deebo Samuel in the early second back and got him. Yeah, Mickey, they did, yeah pick in the second round. I'll tell you what though, they did a nice job. Those two kids can play. Both. Those kids can play. Pollard not only can return kicks, he can cover kicks. Yeah, yeah, I was reading he was a gunner on the on

punt coverage, so that gives him maybe. What were other guys that Keith O'Quinn has fired up about that are special teams demon types that they've acquired here. Well, what about your Aggie. I've always seen him, yeah, I've always seen him. I've always seen him play defense. I've never seen him playing special team and play I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it. But I think he's he's gonna have to help, he's gonna make the

team there. Um, I'm just looking at the number of kickoff returns last year, so they only had Joe Jackson would fit in that also. Yeah, and then and you know they didn't usually they draft a linebacker. Well, that's that's gonna she didn't do that. And they you know, they looked at some guys like Cole Holcombe they brought. He got drafted by the Redskins. I think at the end of the fifth round. He was the last right about that Bill, So who's Yeah? And then Green and Greenlock. Yeah,

I had him. I had him mocked like a much later and he ended up going like thinking the fifth round if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, So yeah, Well, and teams started taking those special teams guys. Yea to be a backup linebacker and special teams guy. So who's your sam linebacker? I think Sean Lee. See that's that's that's where we differ here. That's where we differ here. It's Sean Lee boy probably a point who's replacing Damian Wilson as the starter at Sami, Shawn Lee. That's what I'm

all for that myself. Who else, Joe Thomas? Okay, my only issue with that, Nick, why did you bring Shawn Lee back? Why did you move him to the week side years ago? But this is different? Why is it different? Because Okay, I asked the questions, asked your question. I asked the question. I asked someone, can Sean Lee play strong side linebacker? That person answer was yes, he can play any place we want him to play. I think you're I don't disagree with that safety based on past history.

Good point. They moved him to will to cover him up. It doesn't matter he was in the middle. You can cover up this. You can play the strong side linebacker differently. I don't have to have him on the line of scrimmage. Take him on the tight end. I hope you're right, Mickey, I hope you're Shaun Lee when they go to Ota is going to be the first one got your sources. I'm not going to disagree with that, but if you know,

I would. I think Rob has got a point because they're trying to help him keep from getting beat up, taken on blocks. But if they play, if they play with Sam linebacker and he can do it. Okay, snaps a games, Wilson, I'm ahead of you. Good. He played twenty eight percent of the snaps on defense. So that's a nice little role for Sean. I see where you're going. I'm just playing devil's advocating. Why wouldn't you want him on the field? No, No, I want Sean Lee on

the field. I want but I want to keep Sean Lee healthy. The beauty of it is he can still he can also do other back up the other spots because he's smart enough to be able to handle everything. If if Mickey, if you're right, I'll be the first one to admit it, because sneaky sounds, I have to agree with it. That's that's that's a well placed. So of the other of linebackers on the roster, who is who would be the candidate to be that starting sam linebacker?

With there there? I would have thought maybe it was Joe Thomas. I think they I think they want to see Covington. I haven't seen content enough to know what he's keeping on this kid. Kyle Quero though too, That's another one of those guys that that was was on the practice squad all year. And the coach is kind of filling up. All he did was like intercept passes and pick up fumbles and stuff in practice safety. In

college safety at Northwestern, they moved him to linebacker. He's like the Donovan Olumba that you all of a sudden, we're gonna be talking. It's like Micky's gonna go and we're gonna be doing uh, We're gonna do training camp live and Micky's goying this. Kyle Quara watch him and last year. I'm just telling Mickey's gonna talk about it more. How much how much progress does a player make from

year one year two? Ultimately, I'm with Mickey on this because it's kind of like the offensive line argument, best five, best three. I want Shaun Lee on the field. I'm just going back to what they did in the past to try to cover him up more that they're hearing that surprised me a little. But if they think he can do it, I don't. I don't. I don't think Shaun Lee can't do anything. I'm so saying he doesn't have to play on the line of scrimmage every play.

They can cover up the strong and they're and they're in and they're in nickel a lot most of the time anyway, so's yeah, and he's gonna be your backup in the middle on the nickel. Yeah, they get Shaun Lee on the field. I think that's a victory agreed if and then it's a double victory if he can stay on the field. Well, I would say this edition of Talking Cowboys has been a victor. W We covered a lot of ground. He did cover a lot of ground, and there'll be more to cover next week. And in fact,

next week we've got rookies coming to town. What a week from Thursday? Right right? And can I yes promote something for We got our final draft show on Thursday at eleven am Central. Ye, Will McClay. We're gonna go through the nuts and bolts of this one, and then I want to go back and talk about his two thousand and sixteen draft he had with the Zeke and those we like to talk about that too. Well, it's

three years removed. That's a fair amount of that's a famount of grade that we can grade that raft grade this one back then. Well, they don't grade back then. We're right now, We're grade now. I can give you a grade right now get sixty minutes without mentioning Amari Cooper. Oh, just your first round pick man. Nice video, kids, right, nice jot. Talk to you next week and Thursday. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. How about you come