Talkin' Cowboys: Enough To Draft BPA?

Cowboys dot Com. We are raring to go. We have an entire hour in front of us and we're going to talk about everything under the sun that happens to deal with the Dallas CCT Baby t Yeah, no sun side today in Dallas, but that's okay. We're still going to talk about it. Yes, sir, when do we go get out pitches of you and blue bonnets? Its blue bonnets season? Man? You know, are you laying in the blue butnets with both mands under the little cards angles crossed?

We're gonna get a rock pe island post. That is like a thing I like to do in springtime. Yes, I like to lay in the bonnet. I need to see Rob Pie laying down, hands under the chin angles, cross them they I'll tell you. Can we we have house picture, we have talking cowboys. Fans out there that are proficient with photoshot. Can. I want as many renditions of imagery as possible, now at quit as quickly as possible. I want Rob Philip's face plastered all over somebody sitting

in blue bonnets. It's a great has to be. I want as many of them as possible. Has to be Rob Pi on Rob Pie Island laying in a whole time. It's a Rob Pe Island in a blue yes season, what what did we start here? What did you start here? I'm not watching. He would love doing that, of course he was. Internet is undefeated, by the way, so I'm looking forward. I was gonna say, let's get him a clean shot. Just spelling your camera real quick there Rob

with Yeah, there he goes. He's like he's taking a down. He's doing everything you guys, can you finish right here? A job blue bonnet? Oh nice? That the rails right away? Yeah, that was good. Get joke. By the way, I've got a shout out a friend of the show Jerry Smith was out at Kroger last night and I guess I shouldn't say that at a grocery store last night, and he stopped me and he goes, hey, like, we love I love your show. He was a big fan of

Talking Cowboys. He's been like a day one listener, even before we were on the show. When when when it was Bill and Mickey and you and everybody involved, and he said he loves the show, wanted us to pass it along, and real nice guy, glad he took the time to say hi. So I thought i'd give him a shout. Was that a subtle brack right there? The

little flex flex? I mean they recognize, they recognize you, right, No, they actually recognized Lorena, who's by the way, it's her twenty eighth birthday to day, Well, happy birthday, all right, and so he was like, yeah, it's your birthday, and so she's the real celebrity. Honestly, I mean, obviously no flex on my side, but because your lady now, so it was it was subtle, subtle. He's so deflecting right now. Did you see He's like he's definitely playing pongo And

I got a birthday shout out? In there as well. I like that Happy birthday. Lorena points. Yeah, so I had a fun run in with him yesterday right AfterAll Chris. Yeah, I got turned my hip to give him too, because that was a double women he wanted to work in the show and there there you go. Yeah, very good. Well that it was her birthday. The birthday song from Chris in the background. That's awesome. Is so much trouble like so glowing back. All right, let's talk Cowboys. Since

that is the name of the podcast. We will talk about the Dallas Cowboys as something we got an hour. You know, it's two weeks of the draft. We got the time to talk. Few weeks till the draft. We're gonna talk plenty of draft. We're gonna talk about what have the Cowboys done to this point. It's a kind of set up their draft strategy. But rob news and notes. We have a fullback on the roster again, the guy

give us some news and notes. What happened back? I told you they might not be done and I told you, I told you. Ryan Nall has joined the Dallas Cowboys one year contract. Ryan no veteran running back. He was listed as a running back with the Bears. The Cowboys view him as a fullback and probably most importantly, a special teams guy. Joined the ninety man roster and uh, you know, and and give bones Fossil a core special teams guy to compete for a roster spot. You know,

they didn't use a lot of fullback. I mean they used the macpackage with Connor McGovern a little bit last season. But I think by and Lars this was probably a special team signing. Yeah, because they lost a special teamer in Malik Turner, another news and note boom before Isaiah What you got talk about him? Liked him? Yeah? I mean I mean, I mean touchdowns? Did he have three? Yeah? Listen, I mean special teams contributions of course. I mean, but he also came in there and he was a valuable

asset at receiver. Regardless of the garbage time, whatever you want to call it, the game, it doesn't matter. He still has to go out there, run routes and catch balls over professionals. Right, I mean, so, I mean you let, I don't know how you allow and and I obviously stood on the mountain top as soon as they signed him, I said, that's a heck of a signing, right, they snuck him. They snuck him because he's he's he's a he's an asset offensively, he as you, gives you some

depth offensively that you can actually depend on. He's also a core special teamer like core, not just uh just every so often contributor, Like, no, that's a guy that we need him on the field, Like where the heck is hey at? You know what impact is he gonna have? I don't know how you allow him to freaking walk off? Man. Now the question is priority. You know, why why didn't this guy get prioritized? And I think you know, obviously for everyone in Cowboy Nation right now, the bigger question

is like what do we do it? If they want to know? Because when you let Amari Cooper, uh, Cedric Wilson and now I'm Alik Turner with and just looking at Malik and said, as far as on the special team side of it, you come back to the answer to that is null. Obviously, there are a lot of missing pieces right now, and no one feels comfortable with the direction this thing is going. So something major has

to be getting ready to go down. I mean major, Like what I don't that have to be to consider it on the Richter scale of being made Ricky of the Year has to be Ricky of the Year. I don't know. Something. Something has to be going down. I mean because to your point, you know, you just lost two receivers. Both of them are huge contributors on special teams and let's not even talk about how they fill

out your depth on you at the receiver position. And you know obviously some of the other things that have transpired in this offseason, but you know, those are these three receivers gone, three receivers gone, two of them, which you're you know, like I said, core special teamers. How are you going to feel these voys? I mean, at this point, you're rolling the dice and you're hoping right, and you're depending on your scout in the department and all those guys that get paid to do this watch film.

I get it right, those guys have a job to do and they do it well. However, it's still a question mark as you're going into the draft and some of these guys that we're letting go a you know, I you know, Malie Turner type of guys like those are easier guys to sign and secure, Like you don't let those guys go because they're not going to cost you a lot of money. You can rely on them.

They're very dependable, right, they're contributors. Why would you let those guys go to somebody that you're probably gonna face down the road like San Francisco, Like you just don't let those guys go. It was a one year deal with the forty nine ers. Was there money on that at all announced? Yet? I didn't see money on it either. But I was just looking up his stats, and you know, we talked a lot about how efficient Cedric Wilson was

for this team the last few years. Ye. Pretty efficient season for Malik Turner when you look at he played in fourteen games last year. He played only one hundred and twenty six snaps on offense, and he had he had twelve catches one hundred forty nine yards, And he said three touchdowns plus core special teams guy. So to me, it's um touchdowns is hurt? Yeah? Pretty good? Pretty good? Pretty efficient? Um. You know, they drafted Simi Phohoko, they spent a draft pick invested in him, and so your

hope is that he takes a step forward. And I think I keep saying this, I mean I think they're pretty confident that they can draft a guy in the first whatever rounds, three rounds, four rounds and get a guy and develop him, and he can he can be an immediate contributor. And I think something that stands out a little bit more. Yes, we are going to talk Simi Phohoko here in second Isaiah, we may want to keep drinking that water bottle. Uh talking about the efficiency

and touchdowns in the back end of it. I mean, he was targeted sixteen times, he started sixteen times, and eight of those resulted in first downs. So he didn't catch four passes, and he's still two thirds of his his grabs came for the first down or went to at least ten yards. That's something to know. He was a reliable guy late in the game or even in the middle of the game if he really needed him to to throw him the football, and he didn't cost a whole lot, and he was what he was your

number six, right, he was your number six receiver. Yeah, maybe argue that he was ahead of Noah Brown by the end of the year. You could argue that, but I agree with you. He's five or six either way, and he still had some efficiency to his game. Just look, guys, is the riding on the wall that this is Simi phohoko time. Though. Let's let's let's pour out a little liquor right now for Malie Turner, play a little taps. It's all a wit. I mean, we've got to get

this ship moving and in the way that everybody's ship moving. Okay, we've got to get it moving. That's a nautical because right now it seems like sabotage offseason, you know it really does. What are we what are we trying to do? Are we building this thing towards the Los Angeles Rams way of just come in and sign and do it the way you want to spend all the money you want. That's not what we're doing this offseason. There are guys that we didn't prioritize. He was the sixth receiver. You

drafted semi phoco pretty high last year. You gotta get some bang for that. Buck can play that pick. Yeah, they're gonna give him an opportunity to go earn it. It's not guaranteed, just like I don't think James Washington spot in the rotation is guaranteed. I think he's gonna be honest team. But he's got to go earn it because I fully expect they're going to draft a guy that's going to compete, and Michael Gallop will be back within the first month of the season, let's say regular season. Now,

will he be Michael Gallop right away? That's a question mark, because I mean that's a serious injury. We're talking about Semifhoco. How much confidence one through ten to be that third guy, to be a guy who could come in and give you significant snaps late in the game. How much confidence do you have in him moving into this season? Kyle, I can tell you I don't have a lot of confidence in him. I didn't get an opportunity to see a lot of him in game action. Um is he

What type of receiver is he? Kenny Block? Uh? Is he a masterful route runner? You know? What is? What is he? What is he like after the catch? All we have to go on is what he did at Stanford. Nothing in his rookie year is telling me that he's able to fill those shoes. And that's why I think everybody's kind of standing back, like, what the heck is this? Uh? But yeah, we know Noah Brown can block. We know

he could catch. He may not be the your best yak receiver that you have, but still he still fits the bill. There. You have Dalton Schultz in the mold as well Fold as well as somebody you could throw the football to a little bit. But nobody wants to

hear that. They don't want to hear those names. They want to hear now when they've had the weaponry that they got in the past, and they've been rumored to be at least poking around on a couple veterans who went to other teams, or Brandon Cook stayed where he's at Houston right, yes, and the Monte Parker wind up in New England they were rumored to kind of be.

So it's obvious that they're looking. They're looking. They realize you don't just trade Amari Cooper and let Cedric Wilson go and draft a receiver and signed James Washson and say we're good. Especially with Michael Gallup situation. They know they've got to get depth there. But the questions are well founded, man, because it's that is a lot to replace it. Yeah, and my questions they were semi for whole Koll obviously, but there was a lot of game film out there. We saw a lot in the preseason.

I think he suited up for one, maybe two games. This year, he suited up for five games, most of it was on special teams. He didn't register a catch. Okay, got you, all right? And which is fine? All right, Which is fine, And that's all I would really expect out of him in this first year. However, what impact are you having on special teams? Right? Where are you playing on special teams? Are you just out there because they're like, man, we spend money on you when we

got to find somewhere for you to go. Are you actually gonna be an impact guy on special teams? Are you going to be a cover guy that has actually inside and said about outside containment guy? Are you going to be on a kick return as an actual returner? Like? What is your impact on teams instead of just being a guy that's getting thrown in there because we put money on you. Also, what impact are you having offensively

as a rookie drafted in his position? Okay, maybe you're not offensive contributor, but you have you damn sure better be a special team's contributor and somebody that everybody can rely on. And I don't. I didn't see that in camp. I didn't see that in his snaps during the season, and that's why my output on him, my outlook on him is low. Unless some things change this off season. There's always a whole off season for things to change, for your mentality, for you to watch film, for you

to get coached, all those kind of things. He can come back a totally different player, but what I have seen of him to date does not give me the boat of confidence that he is going to be an impact player for this team in any capacity. Especially the type of receiver that he is. He doesn't fit this scheme how fit. He's big, he's heavy, he doesn't run very precise routes. From the things that I've seen, he's

slow out of his break. He's not a guy. As we're going towards Kellen Moore's system where anybody can play anywhere, that's kind of what we're going to plug and play guys, right, Everybody has to be quick, right, no one, No one just ginormous receiver route there. Everybody has to be quick. Everybody's precise route runners, and everybody can catch the dog on ball and get vertical, not necessarily looking for a bunch of burners. Right, He's a juggernaut type of doo.

If you let him get off the line of scrimmage, he's gonna build speed. He can beat you down the field that way. That's what he did in Stafford. Yeah, that's what he did in Stafford. But that's not what this offense calls for you, right, This offense calls for you better be able to get off the line of scrimmage. You better run him five to seven yard route, catch the ball and then split a defender and try to

get a first down. Because he has the straight line speed. Mean, he has the four four three that he ran of course for the combine last year, and then he turned around then he didn't have the best ten yards split. He was probably middle of the pack. But he's not a good route runner either. So when he has to change direction and he has to kind of get going, he's not there. He's not that instinct. Yeah, offense, And that's why I said juggernaut, Right, he's a juggernaut guy.

He has to build momentum. Right, He's a bigger, heavier guy. He runs heavy. When you watch him, at least for this past year, he runs heavy. That's the first thing that stood out of me. I mean, we were sitting out there watching the first OTA I believe it was, and I'm like, he's he's he's heavy. You know, he just runs heavy. Everything just looks like do do do do?

And it just didn't get out of his breaks. And then when you watch him on special teams back then in OTAs in camp, he didn't seem like he wanted to have it be an impact guy on those states. He didn't seem like he was a guy who understood what his role was on that team at that particular time, who was who was determined and adamant about coming in there saying all right, I'm not gonna I'm not touching the field on offense, but I'm damn sure gonna make

an impact. Especially I didn't feel that energy from him, and maybe that changes. Yeah, Isaiah just politically correctly buried Semi Fihoko. He's done that throughout the last two years. What are you talking about? Because of a juggernaut and then he goes through through So you talk about you said two things, right, you said he has four he has four or four or three straight line speed, right, but his ten yard splint wasn't great, right, So what

does that mean? That means that your first team yards is kind of slow takes. If I know that you're as a defensive back, if I know that you're a heavier guy and that has a good straight line speed, I am not letting you off the line of scrimmage. There's no clean release, yea. Yeah. And my whole thing

is he's not guaranteed anything. I mean, if he can, if he can come out and earn a spot, awesome, maybe he can pick up the nine snaps a game that that maligue Turner played, and but you know, maybe he's not a If he can't play special teams, that's gonna be a hard thing to do because you got to be able to do that at the back. That's how Noel Proud stayed here for like twelve years what

feels like twelve years, you know. But I think will we feel better about this if they draft a receiver in the first round, second round, yes, third round, no, No, because that's not where their draft picks need to go in terms of what we say it last week, right, their draft picks need to go towards off as a line, because if you can't block the run. If you can't block the runnings game and if you can't protect deck,

then nothing matters anyway. They need both. I think without question, those are the top most two glaring needs that they have going in And that brings me to the question that was on the rundown today anyways, was the fact that have the Cowboys done enough to allow them to take best player available? The last two drafts, they've looked at their board the way that it has fallen, and they've said, we can take the best player on our board.

Twenty twenty it was Ceedee Lamb. Twenty twenty one it was Michael Parsons, which one of those two guys would have been taken if they didn't have those needs already semi covered on the back end. I don't get that feeling this year they don't have the same liberty that they've had the last two years because there are so many holes. And Rob said it himself a second ago, was they have other things that they need. You can't have that BPA. It's gonna be a BPA best player

available in the area of need. And I mean at the moment, that's the offensive line, right Yeah, I would especially at twenty four I mean, like, like we mentioned last week, corner was a position last year they didn't really address other than resigning Jordan Lewis, so you kind of felt like they needed to go do that early. There's always a position. I just feel like this year and maybe they disagree because they haven't been that active other than they have resigned a bunch of their guys.

Ever resigned like a dozen of their own guys, which is important, but maybe they feel like they're they're covered more than it seems like on the outside, because I think you can look at receiver, you can look at obviously, guard, defensive end, edge, pass rusher, tight end, linebacker. You can go a lot of different directions and say, if they take a guy in the first few rounds at this position, well, yeah, that's a need. You know, that's a need. I mean,

they don't. They don't seem as covered going in as I feel like they have in past years. And the weird part about it is when you look at those those two drafts that you're talking about, the stars had to align for you to get Ceedee Lamb and Michael Parsons.

I mean, you take time Machine back last year, this time we're not talking about Micah the guy that literally failed to you, you trade it out of the spot with your with your enemies to then come back and get him later and he ends up being Defensive Rookie of the Year. So many things like that can happen this year as well. And I think that's what Jerry was saying. You know, if I have a CD Lamb fall to me or Michael Parsons fall to me, well, who are those guys in this draft? That's the really

confusing part. And that's what's so masterful about this magazine that you wrote, is how the hell can anybody look at this draft one through thirty two and say, oh, it's gonna fall like this Because there's so many of these players that are enigmatic, they're anomaly. They may have the body type and all those things, and you're basing projecting based off of their future. But who is your penic sewel? Who is you know? Who are those guys that are just can't miss guys at the top ten?

I don't think you have that, and and I'm not probably five guys, and those five are gonna go in the top seven picks because even they're not consensus. There's like five guys up there that are like they're gonna be top five picks. But even then it's it's still wide open. And it's not a quarterback draft either. That's probably what throws a lot in where you're not gonna get five guys taking the first twelve picks at quarterback. That pushed down a lot of position. If you're lucky,

you have three or four if you're lucky. Yeah, they have three quarterbacks in this in this draft that they're talking about. To me, don't even qualify for the first twenty picks, you know, and there's gonna be a team that's gonna jump out the cake and do that. Anyway. Now, I'm not saying that this is Tony Mandridge Troy Aikman kind of drafted and you're gonna have a bona fide bust and at the top five. But I'm just saying,

how do these guys drafted? And if you're the Cowboys, you're looking in your cupboard and saying, like, what do we need? I know we're from the outside looking in. We think they need everything, but they have an idea of how they're gonna play next year. You still have Kna McGovern, you still have tarn Steell. Those may not be names that you you want to hear, but those are your guys. Now, all right, we're gonna say offensive lineman, that's what we need. But what are we still in

the hybrid tweener guy or we're going guard center? Are we saying monified we need a left tackle because that's another position? Yeah, we are. We need bonafide a left guard. This is how we're gonna shore up this position. Or as everybody work, when we're thinking one direction the front office is and we are going to get a stud in the middle of our defensive line or a linebacker.

It's just so much to be answered, and the moves that they're not making is really what's confusing you the most because you're like, you have nobody in your wide receiver room, nobody. Is this a trade down draft for the Cowboys? Yes, unless they see a guy that they know, Like if Dan Quinn Mike McCarthy say, this is a guy that we have to have, We've identified and we have to have him, it may be a trade up draft. The last last time they did something like that was

twenty thirteen with Travis Frederick. They were picking twenty twenty four Sharif Floyd was a guy that they were connected, and yeah, traded down, got an extra third, got Terrence Williams in the third round, and took Travis Frederick at thirty one. And I think it was in part because they thought they could get him there. But maybe it's

a situation. We got a mailback question about that, like, if you feel like we can get our guy, or there's a group of clump of prospects that we feel good about getting any of them at whatever pick you trade down to, that's an option. I mean, it's a deeper draft because there's more prospects this year, right, I think it's more likely to trade down than it is to trade up. But HECKMA brings up a good point because they're doing their their research. They're bringing in these

top guys. Jordan Davis should not be there at twenty four defensive tackle, but he was brought in. He's a thirty visit guy who's who was in the in the room, same thing with a Drake London wide receiver out of USC. He's not necessarily a guy that should be there at twenty four either. They're doing these this research. Charles Cross, offensive tackle from Mississippi State. A lot of people think he's a top ten lock. He was here, well, Cede

Lamb was the top ten lock as well. They talked to him at the combine for fifteen minutes, didn't have him on a virtual visit, didn't have he was not even in part of their mock drafts leading up. So you have to always be ready for those things, I guess, yeah. But the fact is that they used three to five visits out of these thirty visits on guys that are obviously going to be to reach or I mean, as much as you can say, no matter no matter what they do. And I said it last podcast that he

has to come in and be ready to play. Yeah, if you're gonna trade out, if you're gonna trade down, it's gonna be for a guy that can play immediately. There's no developmental situation in Dallas. You get picked first, you're playing. If you're trading down, you've got to be confident that there are five guys there, then Josh want to be there. Josh Ball was like a fourth round pick. He's a fourth round pick. Let's not get carried away. Tyler Begottish played as a fourth round pick. But he's

the exception, not the rule. He was a starter halfway through his rookie years. But that's a great point. I mean it's still I mean, you have a lot of options there, you just not calling them out. Josh Baul at the moment, kind of like cal Heckmo was saying, you talk about guys that are in the building. Josh Balls your swinging tackle right now, right this second, Josh Ball is probably your swing tackle. I haven't seen him do anything, so I can't speak to but he barely

put on pads camp and got hurt. So yeah, so we need to go to Yeah, I'm gonna take a take a quick break. I had a question for you, kind of carry over if you want. Yeah, let's do you want It's easy, It's just you know, we'll do a little draft show overlap heres draft shows. You're the I mean, you wrote a magazine. Let's let's get into let's talk about the draft when we come back with more talking cowboys. There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why Selor pioneers ways to make lenses as

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package that's just right for you and your budget. Visit unanataginturf dot com to Talking Cowboys. Welcome back to the second segment of Talking Cowboys. Be sure to head to the Star in Frisco for the twenty twenty two Cowboys Draft presented by Miller Life from Thursday the twenty eight through Saturday the thirtieth. Enjoy live draft coverage, entertainment of Free Youth Camp on Friday night and Draft Day five K presented by Baylor Scott and White Health on Saturday morning.

For more details, go online visit Dallas Cowboys dot com slash draft and that's the Dallas Cowboys Star Magazine Draft Guide, modeled by our very own Isaiah stand Back. He was in draft guides at one point in time. He loves his You dub guys on the cover. Over one hundred and ten prospects outlined, detailed scouting reports, got rankings in their top ten Cowboy always picks of all time at each position feature stories. Yeah, take it, take it. You

earned it, earned it, but yeah, you'll get it. It's on stands now. You can get it at Yeah Grocery and get it at the grocery store. You could get it at the Barnes and Noble. You get it at wherever you want to go. You can get the Dallas Star Magazine Draft Guide, or you could get it online. By the way, you can find a digital issue for those of you not in the thew area. That's impressive, man, Thanks, man worked hard on it. I'm not surprised, but it's impressive. Thanks.

I'm glad you're not surprised. Hey, you actually did work one time. Thanks. I mean, you know you're filling the broadest role, which ain't easy. I mean talking about like Mary Cooper's not here you. I mean, that's I'm just saying it's not a former scout. Looks great. You did a great job, Thanks man, you have a scout sigh. Thanks man. I've had a lot of great input and learning from from people around the building. So what's your question, Rob?

You teased it. We're talking about we're talking Yeah, I just want to are you over the discussion from a pre break about goodness, we're talking guard, we're talking receiver. And I know I'm crossing over from the Draft Show because I know you guys have discussed this, But like, which is deeper? Which I mean, is there one of those two spots where you feel like we guard specifically? Yeah, like we can't wait past the second round? Maybe offensive line.

You cannot wait if you don't get an offensive line in the first, maybe the second. If you get lucky, there's a starter in the second. You're not getting a plug in play offensive lineman outside of pick fifty six

you and you may even have to get lucky. I pick fifty six if you're going to draft a starter, plug in play, which is what we've talked about on this show, what we talked about on the Draft Show, if you're drafting a plug in play guy who's going to come in and start as a left guard or a center as a rookie, you gotta get him in the top forty five picks. If you want to be a lock wide receiver, you can get a plug in play wide receiver all the way to the third round.

I think in the eighty eight range you'll have a guy there that you like. I think there's guys that the Cowboys like at fifty or at eighty eight. David Bell out of Perdue a technician route runner. He's a little bit slow. He would probably be up in the mix if he wasn't necessarily late. And let me find his numbers. He's both had him in our mock drafting we did Friday, Yeah we did, and that was not planned by any means. But I mean he ran a four or six five forty, which is really low for

a wide receiver. But he runs great routes on his film. He has good hands, he can catch in traffic, he does a lot of those things. His numbers are going to knock his stock a little bit. If he's there at eighty eight, he's most likely going to be the selection. So I think you can look at offensive line in the first maybe the second round. Wide receivers open all

three rounds, maybe even into the fourth. If you really see a guy fall maybe an injury issue there, he could fall to the fourth and he still might be your third wide receiver because you're not necessarily looking for a number one, even though a number one would be great. If you wanted to go get a guy in the first round, do it. If you fall in love with a guy, don't waste your pick sitting there on an

offensive lineman that you're not in love with. Go get the guy you you think will be a high, high caliber, high quality player. However, you can get starters later in the draft. And the name I keep here is Green. From from me, Kenyon Green, Yeah, Kenyon Green. Some of the other some of the other guys may be Linderbaum who's a center guard type as well. But from from those guys that you are listening, even you're talking about

cross that can't miss from twenty four? Are you saying that we have a guy specifically that if based off of your draft board or maybe what the front office is thinking, that this is our guy twenty four and we're not moving from this. I think there's three names there. One of them is a hope, and that's Tyler Linderbaum. I have no smoke where Tyler Linderbaum could be a pick. I have not heard a single thing from the front office. There hasn't anything here. Yeah, which might be a right thing.

Linderbaum would potentially be. He would be the camp Miss guy out of that group of guys at twenty four, specifically because I don't really know if Charles Cross is going to be there at twenty four. He play one position, yes, center, and he does it very well, does it exceptionally well. He's Jason Kelsey two point zero. He's gonna be a good center, little undersize, but he's gonna be fantastic for years to come. Ken Yon Green and Zion Johnson are those other two names. Green out of Texas A and

m Zion Johnson out of Boston College. But along with Tyler Linderbaum, those are the three names that are up at the top of the draft board because of their their fit in terms of the twenty to thirty range, and of course they're fit with the Cowboys where they need a guy on the offensive line. I think all three of them are starters. I think all three of them are capable to come in and be better than what the Cowboys had a year ago at the left

guard or center spots, depending on where they're selected. I don't necessarily think you can find that later on. I'm just going just real quick. I just was going through the Cowboys history this century drafting guard to find a plug in play guy to take your to borrow your phrase, I mean, it has to be in the first two rounds. It's I mean it's been Zack Martin in twenty fourteen. That's pretty good pick. Huh. Yeah, it worked out pretty good. I mean Connor Williams stepped in right away in twenty

eighteen second round pick. And you can go beyond that, man, you gotta go all the way back. I think to two thousand and two with with with Andre Garad. You know that one worked that pretty well too, huh. Guys like Doug Free stepped in played fourth round, but it wasn't it wasn't right away. So at that position when they've hit on guys, it's been in the first whatever. You know, sixty picks. Does that make you feel better about the situation or no, no, it doesn't. And the

reason it doesn't, No, it doesn't. And to think about it, Linda Baum, I'm told on him, you know, because of what we had from Beyondish And I know that everybody all of a sudden is taking a pass on Beyotish. But when you invest that kind of time in developing a guy and you he gets to the point where hey, he's actually he's turning into something. He's got a full more you know, four years more of lifting, weights, nutrition, all those things under this belt. Can he be what

we need him to be? He came out of college, You were high on him. He has all of the same accolades as the other guys. You're saying, is it can't miss prospect go to guard, because your guard is going to be the guy that's going to be the driving force of your offensive line. We have that with Martin on the other side, but we we've just been lacking in that area. If that's a if that's a

we need this, we gotta have it. This is where we are at twenty four, twenty four pick twenty four are if we can't get it in the second round, that's that's my only point. Is it more important? I feel like this is pertaining to a center position. Is it more important to plug your holes with draft picks or is it more important to upgrade? Yeah, that's the question that you're having to ask with these two positions.

And I mean, I think you need to play your holes. Yeah, because I've been asked that question specifically because I am. I'm very high on Tyler Linderbaum. He's my number nine player in the draft. If he's there at twenty four, he's best player available for me. However, somebody has asked me the question previously, and they're saying, would you rather

have Tyler Biottish playing as a starter? Would you ever rather have Connor McGovern playing as a starter, Because at the moment, unless you get back up in the top forty five picks and use your second round pick to go up and get somebody that you like that falls maybe one of these names that we're talking about. Unless you do something like that, that's the decision you're making. Who are you replacing. You're replacing Connor McGovern at left

guard or Tyler Biattash at center. And honestly, I'm looking at Connor McGovern as that guy, as the guy who's not going to be the better player out of those two, I would feel much more comfortable with Tyler Biottish having to be a starter in twenty twenty two rather than having Connor be governed in that regard. I agree, then Green is your guy than Green or Green is my guy, and Zion Johnson's who I think will be the guy.

If I had to put a guest and I put this out on my mock draft on Dallas Cowboys dot com, if I put a guy there, it would be Zion Johnson. It would be that would be who the pick would be. Right now, any teams you worry about jumping you and grabbing either guy in the early twenties, late teens, No, because I think if somebody's gonna jump in this draft, they're gonna go get a quarterback that they like, because they mean, I mean, just mean picking in front of

twenty four oh picking in general, not trading enough. I think the Eagles could maybe snag them. I think the Cardinals need an interior offensive lineman. If they go and get that, they need all offensive lineman. If we're being real, they could grab the tackle. They could draft a guard, a center. So I think an offensive lineman will probably be off the board at twenty three, which could be one of those names. I think the Steelers will probably

go with a maybe a quarterback at that point. Eagles, Chargers, Saints, Cardinals. Those are really the teams up at the top that I think could take those guys that we're talking about with Zion Johnson and Linderbaum and Kenyon Green. Those are the areas of worry that I have because you know, Hellman's big thing is he wants a receiver at twenty four. He always I mean, it's more are fun, it's more fun.

It is more fun position. And it mainly though because the quality of player, the chance you could get a just a better player that plays wide receiver. There my my issue, and that's why I asked about down the line, like he's her. That's a that's a need. Offensive line is a big, big need. So how long can you wait? That's my Questioneah, outside the top forty five, you're you're getting lucky. No, I can't wait. Can't so offensive line

unless you signed a guy after the draft. But at this point, who you sign it it's just gonna be plug and play and you feel great about it. It's pretty i mean pretty dry. Wait until point where. I don't think that's gonna be a that's really really it looks gone drive well. And if they go wide receiver, if they go wide receiver in the first round and they are just tear your hands up, hey, your hands up, forget about it. I mean they are sold on the

guys that they have. And McGovern is starting to stop this. Come up. What happened to your twenty or twenty nineteen first round pick? What happened to it? Traded it for a Marine Cooper twenty in nineteen? Yeah, twenty twenty. What happened with your first round pick? Oh my gosh, it was Ceedee Lamb. I mean, you've two of the last three years have been wide receivers that have been taken in the first round. Why three or four? I don't

I don't think I make it three. I don't think you have I mean, you're not going to get the same caliber player if you wait. But they've shown they can draft Michael Gallop in the third round. It could be a starter. Like, I just think you can wait on that position, maybe more so than offensive line. And once again, you don't need a number one. You got to give Ceedee Lamb a chance to be a number one.

You gotta give Michael Gallop five years, sixty two million dollars deal that's out there and let him roll with it. You can go get a number three guy and he's gonna give you plenty of production. Doesn't matter who you put in this system, right, it doesn't matter. That's that's kind of what I'm leading to to a certain extent. I mean, and you say that's stochastically, Yeah, that's the

that's the way the organization, the way you're thinking. And they've look, I don't I won't say devalued the wide receiver position, so to speak. But they're just saying that, hey, we don't need a guy to come in here twenty million dollars a year and not give us the production we need. They're setting presidents for that. If you're gonna be get paid twenty, you're gonna produce like a guy that's getting paid. You lost your one, you're four and year six, it's a lot of production just walked out

of the door. One you're one, year four and year six walked out as good as a two. A lot of absolutely, and he's going to be that when his number two coming back to That's the other question. Oh yeah, so you have a number two and he'll be back. But when you know is how what's training camp looked like, what's the first month of the season looked like. But names we hadn't talked about, We hadn't talked much about Zeke, We hadn't talked much about where Dak takes the next level.

I mean, you knew ate him seventy five million dollars. He has to make the next step as a quarterback to that game changer. Neither one of those guys, heck Man can do what you or anybody else in caliboyization expects them to do. If you don't feel the gaps at the office, no, I feel you one, So so I don't. I don't think that we can just we're not disregarding the conversation. It's just that their success is

dictated on who they put up front. So, which is why we're all in a green, is that they need to pick a dog on guard. Not a swinging guard, but a guard. Yeah, that's what one of those guys are going to be. A guard. They played multiple positions in college. But Zion Johnson and Kenyon Green don't get it wrong. Don't get it twisted. They are guards. That's

that's what I'm saying. If you're talking about going out on the limb and getting a wide receiver at one that's why I'm saying, this is what you need to build. Throw the whole cake away. And I mean Kyle said, I mean some of the visits that are being reported that they're talking to guys. I mean, that's what throws me off. That's what I'm not listening. I refused to I've refused. It's not really reports that were in the building.

I mean that you invite a lot of people. I just I just mean, we're not putting out the full lists. No we're not there. But no, I hear it. The full list will come out. Thought it's out. The list is out. The list we didn't put it out. It's out there. Oh yeah, but inside trading, no somebody. We like our jobs. But the whole thought process behind it was why are there's so many first rounds. I mean Chris Olave, Drake, London, Trailing Burks were all guys up

at the top of that list. I mean we even got to report it on the Blitz because they were all up at the top of that list. And the scouting apartment, scouting department or the front office is like, yeah, go ahead, talk about it. I just want to say a lave. I love him, I think great, great wire receiver. But there's a guy behind him next year that really us. You just kind of chill out and wait till he comes out. You just like Jackson Smith and Jacko because

he's a rock wall problem. Hey, kind of a badass. Well, I'm telling you next year's class. I'm sorry, I'm jumping ahead. All right, let's take a break. One thing that we haven't been talking about in the draft is secondary. Why is that? Are we set at the secondary spot for the first time in any offseason that we can really remember in recent memory when we talk about it. Right after the break, new doctor Pepper zero sugar deserve it.

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Cowboys Way copyright twenty twenty Bank of America Corporation. Before there was a draft, you could size up a cowboy by three simple factors, the crease at his hat, the bend of his brim, and his unbending attitude a man, Stetson didn't just protect him from what life through at him. It projected a rugged, unstoppable spirit. Stetson hats are still American, made with pride. Right here in Texas. There's still the unofficial crowd of all self respecting cowboys, and Stetson is

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me compliments on my SLR sunglasses. They're fire, those top guns, they're fire. I need another set. I need another set. It's been a year. It's say it's coming up on a year and guess who still hasn't gotten his set of I'll take his set. We'll get another set once, you know. You know what, do you know what I need? I need another set because I don't wear sunglasses or I don't wear a reading glasses or anything like that. You know, because I got this X ray vision. But um,

but I need some uh my color sucked up. I guess he colors crap. But I need another set of shades. Man, With that, explain your turnover percentage in college? It was lowest interception percentage in the whole freaking University of Washington history. Tell you that much Washington's never really had great quarterbacks. They didn't want that. I bet they never knew that. You never divulged that either, right, I yeah, what's that? No, I'm gonna take a ring. I'm going t keep you

keep your interception percentage low. I want to you know what's funny? Funny? Here we go, funny quote. So when back in college, right, my wife was actually she wasn't my wife back then, obviously, but she was dating a defense alignment back at the time on my team, and so she was alo she was off limits for like ten years. All right, But you know statue limitations. But once that, you know, excided, I was inserted myself back

into the conversation. Married your teammates. What this is? Stale said, there's statue. It's a statue. Don't drop anything around. What I was getting at is that she hated me as a quarterback in college. Really yeah, as a quarterback. She'd hated me because she said, I will always run. It's like, well, I was running for my life and did you tell I can't see colors that you're running for your own teammates? But she hated to this day, she's like, I hated

you as a quarterback. I was like, well things, man, I appreciate thanks so much. Supports something about you every podcast. Hey, nine touchdowns, six interceptions in two thousand and five eleven games started Isaiah stand back, then went on to two thousand and six, played in seven games, had ten touchdowns and three or seven Hello, So before your injury, you were really you were on fire. I was about to be m P babe. You're on the wall right. Somehow

somehow I made the wall mean. I mean, Hey, amongst the just I was vaulted names of Jake Browning and Keith Price and Jake Locker Kyle, I mean, is a gentleman by the name of Cody Pickett who was up for the Heisman when I first got there. It's true, it's really freaking started three years war, right warm Moons seventy six and seventy seven. He were brothers. The picket still owns the single game passing performance. He's a beast now four hundred and fifty five yards of one game?

Can we change? Can we change your Wikipedia page? I don't know how to do that. I don't you guys. He's in like the old New England Patriots gear. He probably I had no neck diesel back. Do you ever touched you? I've never touched it. I didn't know. You don't know how to I think anybody can get on there and edit. Did you see you see those shoulders right now? Like the wooden coat hangers from like I don't know who our sponsor is, but it was from

the hotel from them? Yea, the hotel wooden hangers are freaking nice. They'll charge if you leave with it, though, So do you know get you? Let me ask you the sized you know? Do you know the most passing yards you had in one game? I think it's Notre Dame game. I think, m ring the bell? What is it? Four hundred? Now? Was Mario cal three oh one? No, no, no, no, no, go to Notre Dame top passing performances in the games

three hundred yard passing mark twice three fifty three? My bad? Yeah, and then cal Cal was three h one Notre Dame three fifty five. How about the Irish show passing total the fifteenth most ever at Washington was terrible. Yeah, we had some bad teams back then. That's okay. You were great on the NC Douaba football video. It was a beast. People still come up to me to this day about this. Use you all the time. Yeah. That was the fastest

quarterback in the country at the time. So it was right after like Vince Young kind of like emerged as a video game star because you could you could have a dual threat. And then Isaiah was the next man. It is that game coming back within it now? Yah? Can we can get it back now? Yeah? As you're going to roll, all right, let's talk about the secondary.

Final ten minutes here of talking Cowboys, I say a stand back Washington football legend, Tema Harrison or Texas football legend, Rob Phillips, because he calls the football legend, I'm Kyle Yeoman's secondary hasn't necessarily been in that conversation in terms of cornerbacks safety because of the guys Cowboys have returning, it looks like at this cornerback spot, Treyvon Diggs of course leading the way, Anthony Brown, Jordan Lewis all returning

along with some newcomers like Kelvin Joseph and Nayshaun Wright. That we're picked in the top one hundred of last year's NFL draft, then it's safety. You've got Jay Wren, curseback, Malie Cooker's back on a deal, Donovan Wilson still mulling around there in the backside of the defense. Is the secondary set Rob, or is it kind of tinkering on the edge of being an actual need in the future. It looks pretty set to me because they didn't change anything.

You know, they got Treyvon Diggs, they got I mentioned Jordan Lewis earlier, they got Anthony Brown on the outside and potentially Kelvin Joseph pushing him like they thought could happen as early as last season. And Malie Cooker now projects as a starting safety with with Jayron Curse kind of playing safety, linebacker, whatever you want to call it. I mean to me, it's it's I can't say this a lot over the last few years, but the secondary looks about as stable as any position on the roster

right now. Oh God, do you say that again. I want to hear it. I'm knocking on it. Right The safety secondary looks about as staple as any position on the roster right now. I mean, they didn't really change anything, so, I mean, and and you've got young players that you hope a sind like that's that's what you hope for at a lot of positions, and that's not really the case at other positions. The only thing they changed was

their numbers. Yes, changed, Yes, Jordan lewis wearing number two, Anthony Brown's wearing number three, and I just got used to seeing him in a different number. And now that's the third time he's changed numbers. Is that what it is? He went from twenty six to seven, threw me off. Man. Yeah, do you think they changed because of Digs changing the seven? And man, I can single digit? People think they can? Single digit looks cooler, It look cool. I don't know,

but it makes it difficult as all. Heck, for somebody watching the game, maybe that's why they did it. They see seven out there thinking of wide receiver. Look, you're throwing to the wrong color jersey. You're having Isaiah stand back. Exactly, that's a problem here, Exactly. I told you guys all last season be confident in Anthony Brown didn't. But but no, what he came out and he proved all of the NASA is wrong. He had a strong camp. I mean, aside from Heckman was cutting the guy after the Tampa

Baker man, I mean Antonio Brown like, it's still running. Okay, You're not wrong, It's still running right now when they shut it off, he's still He's still going. He'll go okay. But I mean, that's what you had. And he started to compete oh the season, and you obviously with Travla Dickson, the job that he did last year, man, it's no comparison to the work that he put in. But on the other side, we were thinking that man, he may be the Achilles heel of the defense, and he ended

up not being that. I know we're supposed were talking about the secondary, but I forgot that he on Neil signed somewhere else as well, So we're down to two. I feel like you're just trying to find something to be mad at. I'm not. He's in Tampa. Yeah he left. No, I'm just didn't really do anything. Three linebacker. Sorry, I don't know much about that. Jabril Demante Bond, but Jabril Cox, have Luke Gifford, Luke, and then you have Micah and they they viewed j Ron as part of that mix, honest,

because he's in the box so much. But I'm not saying they got great numbers, but I'm saying that, you know, they don't feel as crazy about it as others might. This is one of those times, like you and I like, I'm numbers aren't great. They're not as good. I mean last year that looked like the deepest position on the team. Yeah. So how's Jabrill Cars Do we have any reports on him?

Should be ready to go start of the season, that's the goal, like John Lejon, Yeah, yeah, Well, Kelvin Joseph is the guy in this whole mix that you want to be a contributor. You want him to push Jordan Lewis, you want him to push Anthony Brown. Uh, this is

he didn't. I mean, there's a lot of stuff I think when I think of Kelvin Joseph, this is this is going to be important for him huge, you know, if he wants to mature, be the player that the organization thinks that he is he is because they put a lot of things and is on his plate and I don't know if he handled it, handled it very well in his first year, but he has to show

the organization that he's matured. I say in your heart, no, but your heart says no. My heart says no because I don't know how can you talk about willing's willing to do these things? How willing is he to make changes within himself and be a professional. It's one thing would be in a college athlete, but then when you get to this level, who's a pro? And I don't know if he's that, but I don't know him on

a personal level. But everything that he projects doesn't project I'm a pro, Kyle, what's it say in your heart in regards a boss man? Fat, I'm kind of right there with you. But he has to produce because I mean, look at the look at the last second round picks, most recent second round picks that cowboys have put out there on the table, and look at the history. Trayvon Diggs in twenty twenty, he's certainly produced. Connor mcg or,

excuse me, Tristan Hill in twenty nineteen. He hasn't necessarily produced. He's still here. But are we confident in Tristan Hill? Is he kind of an afterthought? Absolutely, He's not one of those guys at the top. Connor Williams was a starter second round pick in twenty eighteen, should obi a

woozier second round pick in twenty seventeen. Starter, Jalen Smith twenty sixteen starter even after an injury, Randy Gregory twenty fifteen starter, to Marcus Lawrence twenty fourteen starter, he's got a contribute because if not, he's he's gonna be an afterthought. But in your heart says, what right this second? No? No, I think I think AB's still the guy there. I agree. It doesn't mean he can't take a step because when he played late in the season you saw flashes. But

I think talent. I'd leaned towards his experience. Yeah, he has all the talent in the world, So what's stopping him from taking the next step, Why don't they trust him? I asked the question. I mean, and and look, he did have He got in a full training camp, so you can't say, oh, he didn't have an off season, but he did miss six games with a growing injury that set him back. So you know, hopefully another full and hopefully it's a full off season, no COVID restrictions.

That's what everybody's hoping. But prior to that injury, did you how did you feel? He did not? I mean, he wasn't impressive. He got hurt in the jack the final preseason game against Jacksonville. It was obvious that ab was the starter. He didn't win that job for the injury. That's that's the one thing he has to take that second year, agree that second year jump, or else he's

he's a afterthought in the room. And if if he would have won that injury or excuse me, won that battle prior to the injury, Anthony Brown may not be the cowboy this year. He may not be here. You may have saved the five million dollars that would that was probably the plan when they drafted him. Correct honestly, yeah, yeah, I have him or Jordan. I mean one of the two. Sure Terrence Steele is the reason why Allow Collins is

in here anymore. Really, I mean the main reason why salary man and the suspension in the Yeah, that didn't help. But I mean, if you're you got a guy who's on a undrafted rookie contract versus saving ten million bucks who played just as well or better at right tackle, I mean some mean, some decisions you just make easy for people. I mean, that's just one of them. But

he crossed my mind. We were talking about guard. It's like, you really think he couldn't have played guard because if you moved Collins to guard, yeah, you're not saving money, but maybe you wouldn't be worried about guard at twenty four. I'm just I agree with you, but I think there was some injury. They don't clearly didn't think he could do it. They don't think he can play. Cincinnati thinks he can play. No, I mean, and then moved to guard. Yeah, but but I mean they could cut him straight out.

They cut him straight up, and they didn't really save him a ton of money. Maybe did this year, next year not so much so. But Kelvin Joseph at the top of the list in terms of guys that need to take that second year jump. I mean, I'll name some of the others. Zo Sakizoo, Chauncey Golston, Nashan ridgerbrol Cox, Josh Ball, send me Phoko, anybody there. I mean above Kelvin, Joseph more pressure to take a second year jump. Chauncey,

He's gonna be right in the mix. I mean, we you lose Randy Gregory, We're still chasing from the edge position we have ever since DeMarcus Ware and I don't care what anybody says, I agree, we have been chasing this position. And we finally get a young crop in here that goes into dan Quinn's rotation and Chauncey Ghost and he did produce, but you know next year you're going to ask a lot more of him, especially if they don't go in those first three picks and get

any defensive help. Yeah, that's a good one I'll throw. We mentioned Josh Ball earlier. And because whoever wins that swing tackle job, history says you're going to be a starter at some point this season. Tyrn Smith is probably going to the Hall of Fame, but he missed five games last year. Fourteen games a year before. You know, he missed six games last year fourteen, and then three

games for four straight seasons twenty sixteen through nineteen. I mean, you have to be prepared for that, you know so, And unless they draft a guy or sign a veteran to fill that role, it could be Josh Ball. And just lastly, I just want to say, when it comes down to this draft, I know we're leading right up to it. The tight end position is so important and I don't think that there's enough emphasis being placed on it.

And I know out the tag on Shoult we got sprinkled back, but we are going to have to get a guy that can block in here, that can do both. I've not made it a secret that George Kittle is one of my favorite tight ends, and it is because he is Conan the destroyer at the tight end position, and in Kelly Moore's offense, if he has that at the tight end, he can do anything. It opens up everything that he wants to. It's a great point. Yeah, there's some steam, there's some momentum heading in your way

of Charlie Koehler out of Iowa State. It's a little bit of momentum heading that direction. Fourth, that's a Dalton Scholtz round. You know you can find a tight end six six, two fifty. It's moving that direction and there's some guys. Or you could go with a Jilani Woods. He's a resolutely massive six foot seven one of the tested, literally tested as the highest graded tight end prospect in the history of the analytical side of the NFL draft.

He was a ten out of ten on the Great Scale in terms of his athleticism, his size, and like his but why does he have and inconsistent film? His film is not very good. But to me, he tested better than Kyle Pitts. He tested better than what's wrong anybody? Really? That makes you feel better? Right? And run blocking tip. He's been slouching since we talked about tight end. Hold on to the draftzine real quick? Are you are you

closing out? Yeah? Go for it? Well, I just before we get out of here, I just think let's just say condolences to family for Gary Brown Rayfield right, Wayne Haskins. Just a terrible weekend of news in the NFL. Former running backs coach Gary Brown passing away Rayfield right. Hall of Fame member of course, member of this organization for many many years and uh a key contributed to the community as well. And then yeah, the past the tragic passing of Dwayne Haskins in Florida. I just gotta say

this about Rayphiel Right. Man. You know this this story franchise, you have so many great titans that came through here, and Rayphael Right was one of those guys. I would see him at our fundraiser. Him and guys like Cliff Harris and you know Tony Dorset. These are guys that when they left, they took a lot of glory with them and they now have yellow jackets. But you know, I think as fans is the game, the narrative, the

game advances. A lot of times people forget about those guys, but they're the guys that actually set the standard here. And that's why this organization is what it is because he was the first big cat. I know, people know Leon Let as a big cat. He was the first big cat, the guy that played the position like they had never seen anything like Rayphael Right when he played in the seventies. And so, you know, I think a lot of these guys, you have to give them their flowers.

Now it's not enough to give it to him after they're gone, while they're here. And so when I see any what's the ny of these guys come to, I freak out, you know, because it's it's the game that they played, and they put so much of their heart and soul into it for you know, Tony Dark said, guys like that, they have to get their flowers now. So when ray Phael passed man, it obviously condulses to him and his family. But man, a great cowboy on

the field he was. He was like Tyrann Smith before Tyrn's play, I mean, right tackle was the guy I played in five Super Bowls. Nobody played in more Super Bowls in the NFL history than Rayfield. Right and off the field. Just a great and nice man man, just a good person. And the same same for Gary Brown. I mean, the first time I met Gary Brown was

first training camp I came back twenty fifteen. Jason Garrett got rid of the basketball court by the player rooms over there in ox and hard, but at that point it was still out there and he came shot hoops with us. I mean, just just every everybody loved Gary Brown, you know, incredible man, a great coach too. Yeah, it's been a hard week for sure, and of course passing our condolences on as a show. Glad we got to fit that in. Thanks Rob for that. That does it

for us here on Talking Cowboys. We'll be back next week eleven thirty Central time in the morning. Let's talk some draft next week. We've got two shows to the NFL Draft, only two, and we're gonna figure it out. We're gonna fix this team when we come back next week. For Chris being Rob Phillips, Isaiah's Dan back, heck my Harrison. I'm Kyle Yeoman saying so long from the Star on Frisco.

We'll see you next week. I'm Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.