Talkin' Cowboys: Early Thoughts On DE & LB

of us forgot to get back work. We've got Bill Jones, Rob Phillips, Brian brought us and the chair and the chair, Yes, got a bottle water headset. This might be the best show we do. Guys, I just said it. We're gonna say on topic, this might break. We might get a Marconi for this one. Shall I share my text exchange? I love how you're calling him out. Well we could have said that he you know, he's got prior commitments. NAT's got. Here is my text exchange with Mickey. I

said hello, he said yes. I said we're on the air. He said, I thought it's misspelled b I thought we are going Sunday. I said, nope, Now get your butt out here so we'll see the good news is the good news is it's you know, he lives on campus. He lives on campus. All right, we'll see the thing. They'll be funny. Watch how like when he puts on the headset help. Yeah, everything, he's just so frazzled. Wait and he'll be like he'll be like, he'll be so like just he'll run right into this show like I

thought we were talking about. Okay, okay, this is a great teaching point, coaching point for what if if you're the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys him and you've got a meeting whoa who You've got a meeting? What is happening? Eduld for ten? Yeah, and some player shows up at ten? Oh? What is it? Six am? What happens to that player? About a noon flight? On lax? Back to the FW, I tell you, I think where Mickey was. Were you doing your referee seminar? Yeah, you

shrunking head hockey lea man. I could have sworn we said we were doing it Sunday. No, because we're all talking so much tomorrow. That's what we took. We're doing the scrimmage. Doing the scrimmage. To my mind was we were going to do this as the preview to the scrimmage team. We're making it the preview, all right now, So what time did they go? They're going to morrow. You were right there, Derek was there. So John Roper just walked into the meeting. Yeah, I didn't find falls late,

but is still the same. I was working going over the new rules, the helmet rule, the new kickoff. He was standing from the mirror practicing. I've got a TV package to do. Oh yeah, mister TV guy, a sports director, and I thought it was Sunday. He looks like your Hollywood director over there. Yes, look great role. I'm good good. I woke up six thirty ready to roll there. All right, guy, I've been to the harbor and back harbor. Yeah did you did you? Did Nate wear his bicycling out? Yes,

he did. Big trying to ride you kind of ride away from Nate on the bicycle. Oh it's great. Hey he got that right orange shirt with the big Gator roles bicycling it's green today. Yeah, you gotta you can see him and you're like going, he doesn't look right. He loves he loves you, and you know what, everybody's really nice to us. Riding with Nate, I bet right, And it dawned on me and I'm going cal This

isn't the safest I ever felt, right, no doubt. Well, you caused me to damage the desk, yeah, to see, just trying to make fun of me and you guys. I was just spilled your water into your vet, your your fruit there, and now you busted the desk. This is karma for busting on that poor leafblower kid the first show. We were ten minutes into the first shows, trying to do his job. How is this karma? Right? Hich is a fine for a player showing up late for a meeting? Well? I need to look that up.

Is it seventy five hundred bucks? It's in the sounds right, yeah, the thousands, Yeah, it's I think it's seventy five hundred bucks. I think you did break the desk and there's no excuses. No, yeah, you just write the check, that's right? Will they take it out of your check? I wouldn't you get your check and you go. I wouldn't have been late. I wouldn't have been late if my teammates would have let

me know before ten the teammates. Yeah, I wouldn't have let my teammates sleep in and miss a meeting in the morning. Way Phillips say, back in the day, listening is a skill. I guess, Derek right there yesterday. Memory memory is another. Okay, So a seventy five hundred dollars fine for these players who make yeah, big bucks. Seventy five cents, So you were fine. Seventy five cents. That's okay. That's buy a soda. There you go, all right, And it is Hall of Fame Saturday. It is. That's how

we started Saturday. Did you watch the gold Jackets last I did not watch. I knew it was on, but I did not watch. I want to see Jerry Kramer, that's the one I wanted to I did. Yeah, Sam, Yeah, that's good. I like Jerry Kramer and probably the most appreciative guy ever. Wait so long, forty six years forty six I think six years you had him in with the current guys, and it's a pretty loaded class this year.

Randy Moss and big Time Lewis Ray Lewis guys look like they were enjoying getting the jackets and being we know where this is going tiptoe right down the street. I hope he watched it and sat there and goes, ah, that looks like fun I got. I could have walked through all those old all the older guys in the Hall of Fame and had a hug and a handshake, just the way Ray Lewis did. But you know what, joy it does it surprise you? No, That's why it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I think you should

be there. But Tio's always done what he wants to do, and that he's always done things differently, it doesn't surprise me that he's doing something different. Well, he lost out on a great chance. It's the right time memory, no question. All right. I got a little something. It relates the Pro Football Hall of Fame class to what we see out here, where you've got players who come from all walks of life, from all size colleges. Just take a

look at this Hall of Fame class. You got Bobby Bethard who went to cal Poly, San Luis Bispo general manager. Ride up the road here, Robert Brazil, he went to Jackson State, same as Walter Peyton. Okay, Brian Dawkins went to Clemson the first Clemson player ever in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Jerry Kramer. Where do you go to college? Jerry Kramer went to school? Oh gosh, that's a great question. Forrest Greig went to SMU, But I don't know his line buddy. Where his line buddy went

to school? Jerry Kramer, Big Sky, Montana, Idaho. The Ray Lewis went to Miami, Miami missed. Randy Moss Uh he went to Marshal Marshall, Florida State, Notre Dame, yeah, Tera Owens, Tennessee, Chattanooga, Okay, Brian Urlocker with New Mexican Mexica, Yeah, which was playing in the Whack probably then back then, Yes, yes, all right. So you've got Don Perkins School, You've got Forever from Saint Louis abyss Ball State, I mean, and then you

look at guys out here. We think of okay, some people some think of Okay, you got to go to a big school to make it in the NFL. But look at all the guys that come from jeff smaller schools, you know. Yeah. No, that's the great thing about when you build a football team. And and the thing I always remember about the greatest one of the greatest wide receivers to ever play this game with the school at Mississippi Valley. One of the greatest running backs to ever

play this game went to Jackson State. You know, there's guys that you're right, uh, you know, you talk about like guys like Gene Upshaw and people like that. You know, Offensive Lineman, you know Texas A and M. You know Texas A and M. Kingsville now and you know Texas and you know, so there's a lot of different a

lot of different backgrounds where guys come from. And that's and that's why a guy like Bobby Bethard is in the Hall of Fame, a guy like last year Ron Wolf, Bill Polian, you know, Bill Polian is famous for going and finding those small school guys. Andre Reid was from Kuntztown. You know. I mean, if you're if you're really good at your job, if you're really good at evaluation, you find these guys. You will find out where you know, And and Jason Garrett said something I don't know if

it was it was two days ago. He said something about about the size of your team. And yeah, you know he says, he says, I pay attention to the smaller guys, because the smaller guys are the ones. How did they get here? You know, big guys play football. You understand why big guys play football, But it's the smaller guys. You know, what's their skill, what's their talent? Why are they on the team. You know, there's a

reason why smaller guys can play. Because but I just I kind of am tying it into small school maybe a small guy. You know, we've we've Hey, scouts are not perfect by any means. You go through and you miss guys, and I'm sure there's a gonna be plenty more guys that go to those smaller schools that end up in the Hall of Start. Like finding Cliff Harris had watch a top bat exactly. Yes, that might be the biggest unearthing ever. Yeah, and Jeff Heath is a

good player that they found. You mentioned him a minute ago, Saganaw Valley State. I think Jason Garrett he has done this time every camp. I think he mentions him as an example the success story, a guy that came out of nowhere, rookie free agent, earned his opportunity starting on special teams in a Hall of Fame game, just kind of speeding down the field. Who the hell is this guy? And look where he is now he's a starter on this defense about Hall of Famer Rayfield, right, Larry and

Larry Allen, Yeah, Sonoma Sonoma stated value Field right. Yeah, that's the end, that's the that's the beauty of scouting. That's the beauty of guys of like Gil Brandt and pe Tall Jones. Yeah, you can find those guys, leon Let Yeah, how about that. Yeah, there's places. Oh, try to trick me. Oh, you're sharpen up said six. I try to trick you because I really think you rolled out of bed. That's why you got your sudglasses on. I have and I still got the crust in his eyes.

I have proof. Okay, out with Hanson again. Last night I just called, just called Nate Rudder Room. Anson's not here, but the Rudder Room is open at seven in the morning. Now, by the way, it should be make sure you bring cash. He knows he left it seven. Yeah, it's like Pat O'Brien's. They kicked him out in the street and host it out and missus, missus, mister Spagnola, did you please get out in the street. We're gonna we're gonna host it out there. There were still a line at missus Olsen's

for breakfast this morning. Missus Olsen's is good. Nice? Anything else you need to know about what I did? How many years? I mean? You want to see my picture from the Oxnard Harbor. I could have been taken yesterday, not with Nate Newton. Yeah, okay, we need Nate to corroborate this. Yes, we do it. We'll have him on. He's on the defensive this morning. Oh yeah, he's like he's he's like my buddies in Louisiana that crawfish going backwards to guarantee you. I was up before any of

you even thought about it. Whoa wait a minute now, I think I was up in five fifty. Why could do Nate call you? No? Bill Jones and I have to work out in the morning. Guys, they called me at six fifteen. Well, hey, speaking to Nate. I know we're kind of digressing here. Did you guys get the text from Nate at five thirty? Watching film today? I'm like, what are you doing? What is your problem? You know?

So here's here's the conversation we had last night. He goes, let's let's remember Nate's conversation, let's go do the bike ride. I go, okay, He goes, what time you want to go? And I go, I don't know, like eight o'clock. Yeah, And he goes and he says okay. And then at six fifteen, my phone's ring. Yeah it's I thought we said eight o'clock. He goes, No, I an't gonna wait till then. Yeah, he's already up at the front lobby waiting time, dressed, ready to go. Kind of reminds me

of my text message. I thought we said Sunday. No, it's Saturday. Well, I said eight o'clock. All right, I've got another little and before we get to a break here and by the way, give us a call nine seven two four nine seven forty four hundred to join this special Saturday edition of Talking Cowboys. All right, Bob Lilly, first Cowboy Hall of Famer number seventy four. Right, Why now does this team have not one but two? Number seventy four is out here on this practice field. Because

you have to have enough numbers too. You don't have to give him seventy four. Then they're not gonna make either. They're not gonna make the team. No one has to change. No one has informed Dorrance Armstrong yet that he better love that he cannot keep number seventy four if he makes this team. And is did you inform him that I informed him that on Thursday, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go on the limb here and say that he's gonna in pouring number seventy six tony and he

ain't gonna make the team. Humh, I'm just I'm just I'm gonna go on that on them. That's just a gut that is a total gut shot right there. But yeah, he's not gonna wear seventy four. I mean, they just don't do that. The Corn Curvin the offensive and they just signed out of Alabama. They give him no white number seventy four. But you know, it is kind of a tribute to Bob Lily because we will talk about it on the preseason broadcast. We'll bring up Bob Lily's name.

So in that respect, I like the fact that they give seventy four out. Yeah, you know, I've just kind of with numbers. I've kind of you know, it's there's certain players that look good in numbers, and then it's like to say, I'm with you on the the the issuing numbers, because I don't see two. You don't see a twelve. There's certain numbers you don't see. Seventy four is at the top of the list. Yeah, you don't see eighty eight. Yeah, last year if there's not an

eighty eight, like there's not one right now. Yeah. So yeah, that's a great point. Bill. I don't know. I'm just I don't know if it's a tribute if you give it to a guy who's gonna get cut, you know. I think the fact that Dorn's Armstrong got it is I think is as a credit to him. I was surprised they gave it to a draft pick. But I have a feeling again this is this is just a gut It's a gut feeling. It's it's gonna it's gonna come down to h Well, let's see, Okay, okay, could

give him ninety three Richard Ashe. That could be another one that they say, you know, maybe Richard Ashe doesn't make this team. I'm here, I'm cutting guys you're worried about. I might worry about Eli. Yeah, I am a little bit. I think he practiced better the other day when we had a chance to watch him. But I'm worried about once this once it really starts to be a rotation, once it starts to be once we do get Randy Gregory out there. I think Dorn's Armstrong has been doing

pretty good. Once we get Crawford and you know, Crawford's going and then and then Randy Gregory and then Armstrong and those guys, I think that I think Cony Eally is just gonna be one of those guys that they kind of say, you know, it's not okay, thank you very much for coming, and we're kind of set here defensive end. It's got Randy Gregory on the team, you know, I think got grand Gregory on this had to it. I thought so too. No, No, you're right, you're right

about that. And the thing about it was that to meet the way their attitude about him now is the fact that they're not playing him tells me that he's going to make their tame plan in September nine. Yeah, I was hopeful that. I was hopeful for Randy Gregory to be able to when it when it got to the final cut, and he would have and maybe he still will you know, two three sacks in a preseason, you know, and then going into the Carolina game, Hey,

he's part of the rotation. We're happy to have, you know. And now it's going to be if they if he doesn't get that opportunity, if he misses a bunch of practice time, and then all of a sudden it becomes Okay, well, you know, we're we're really happy about having Randy Greggy, but what do you know about Randy Gregory. I wanted to see about Randy Gregory. I want, I think to a certain degree there they are doing and I like Randy Gregory. Excuse me real quick before everybody starts going

at me on Twitter about that. I am for Randy Gregor. I am not against him. I am not. I just want to see him. I want to see him work with the with the with and try and try and win that job where you're hoping to see him the preseason, yes, and then it solidifies your thought of like it was worth the journey to get here. That's what I wanted. I think. I still think we will see him in preseason. Jason Garrett basically said, yeah, you will see him in

the preseason. I hope. I think I do think they're doing what they think is in the best interest of Randy Gregory right now for a guy who's missed two years of football, and that's that's slow play at working back. In that being said, I do think they have they

see him on the roster. I don't think you wait eighteen months and go through this process and back in guys, don't think he's got enough talent to make the football team because I don't know, like you're to your point, I just don't know if a month is enough evaluation time anyway for the guy. I think you may have to just say on paper, we know how talented he is. Let's give him, you know, we into the season to keep working and get ready. I want I wanted to see.

I wanted to see coney eally and I wanted to see I want to see all those guys compete for the spot. That's what I wanted to see. I wanted, Okay, give me, give me at the end of the day, give me my best four defensive ends. You know, give me my best give me. I want to see who the best ones out of this group is. And you know, yeah, they're right. When we come back here on talking Cowboys, the best four defensive ends you've seen so far in this camp fair Give us a call nine seven two

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can You Move for details. Back to Talking Cowboys. Talking Cowboys continues on a special Saturday edition. As we look back over our shoulders onto the practice field where the Cowboys, we'll be going through a walkthrough in a matter of moments here times the walkthrough walkthrough would be five minutes from now ten forty five. Yeah, they start walking out here in about five or ten minutes and then practice this afternoon at four o'clock specific time. And tomorrow it's

the Blue White Scrimmage. Yes, the Blue White Scrimmage right here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com four o'clock Pacific time, six o'clock Central time. You can also watch it on t XA twenty one in Dallas Fort Worth. And fresh off his appearance on CBS eleven last night doing Yoga with me, Routed will be there at the Blue White Scrimmage. The kids can see Rowdy the Youth Combine ages six to sixteen, skills and drills with former NFL players, and

of course, as always, when you come out here. It is free admission to watch practice, and so we're all looking forward to that. We're gonna be all a part of the broadcast. Sure, Robin Lindsay are going to be working the sidelines. You're looking forward to that sideline view. I always like working with Lenz and yeah, she has some special guests on the sideline as well. Should be good.

She has a good job of getting those guests. She's great. Yeah, two hour broadcasts, so we basically start we go stem to Stern on this thing where we go when they come on the field until the after the scrimmage is over. And so it should be fun tomorrow. Top four defensive ends that you have seen in camp so far. There are a lot of incompletes. There are a lot of incomplete. There's more incomplete than top four. Well, I don't have a problem with the first three because I think it's

the two starters. Would be with with with Lawrence and then with what I've seen with Crawford, and then I think the third one is Dorance Armstrong because I'm not really sure what's going on with tacco on the shoulder. I think that's limited him to what he could do. Charles Tapper started off pretty good. Now he's missed some time illness, stillness with him. I'd put Taco after Dorn's. Yeah, so I think that I think that's kind of where it is. So that would be my four. Yeah. Uh,

and you you're already stated your opinion on number seventy six. Yeah, I don't think he's necessarily Yeah, I don't think out of out of those guys, I think that he's behind that group. It's a shame. It's a shame that again, Tapper, I wanted to see that from him. Well you don't think he's in your top four, Well enough of him.

He's been off too. He got off to a good start the first week, I think, and then what he got sick two days right, right, Well, now I'm not you put it, you put it, You put him over a taco, then that's that's so they've they've been in pads either over taco or I'm strong or strongs had like one or two good days. They've been five, but they've been late. They've been in pans five days and Tapper missed two of them. Right, So he's been in for sixty percent of the practices and Armstrong getting to

show up until these last two days. I think Armstrong is a little bit better than you think. But that's you know, that's I mean, I know you're watching practice too. I'm not going to try and influence you there, but I think that to me, if you watch the guys that have been more disruptive, I think he's been disruptive. I watched. I tend to watch that blue period and then and then I know that he gets a lot of work with the ones and the twos from both sides.

He's the one young guy that they actually move around. That's what I like about it is there, So that tells me he moved around just recently because the guys were all missing, they had no one behind him. Well, he played Marcus Lawrence doesn't line up and Taco doesn't line up, somebody's got to go over there. Well, I think I think, No, I didn't think. I didn't see him playing as a left end. He immediately put him

as they put him in a left end. I think they're putting the left in just try and see what all he can do. That's where I think this is. I don't I understand what you're saying about the depth problems they have there right now. But I think it's

about a little bit about playing. See what's interesting that we're talking about depth issues at defensive end, and probably four days ago we're talking about how deep they were at defensive but issues now because because fact I don't have guys practice, right, That's what I mean, And that's why they brought in Joe by Saint Flour out of Northwest Oklahoma state. Yes it is, there's another big school Northwest Oklahoma. Uh Patrick Crayton. Was he from Northwest Oklahoma?

I think no? I think he was Northwest. Yeah, all right, Let's go to Brandon in Illinois first up here on Talking Cowboys. Hello Brandon, Hello guys, how are you doing great? Great? My question is which are the three positions? Would you rather have a good tight end, a good detacle, or a good safety? Let to play your asters? Thank you guys. Brandon has added tight end to our question on defensive tackle.

If you listen to the if you listen to the break yesterday they went into tight ends pretty extensively about that, So I'm sure that's why some people are getting influenced by all that. Who do you got what do you take defensive tackle? I'm tackle same if we're talking like we were talking yesterday, absolutely and brought us brought up Michael Brockers. Yeah, we're talking Brockers. I might want Brockers on my team. Sure, I just I tried to throw a name out there like that, you know, and maybe

the Rams wouldn't do that. But if you're gonna go for a big fish, go for a big fish. And and so there's probably some other teams. I might be missing somebody at the Dolphins or this not that defensive line that Wade Phillip about that secondary Wade Phillips asked the Rams. Yeah, well he's I tell you what of a coach? Yeah he is, No, he is. He's got a goody, got a good idea of how he wants

to play his personnel. It's a man. And even they're kind of taking Aaron Donald and saying they're paying all these guys and not paying Aaron Donald, that'd be that's just so risky to me as far as what you know, what they And maybe this is gonna sound strange, but maybe Aaron Donald doesn't really fit into what Wade Phillips wants to do. Does that does that sound strange? Yeah? I know, I know he's one of the best players

in football. But you know, it's kind of like it reminds me a little bit of when Bill Parcels came in and we had Leroy Glover, you know, and and it took I mean they had to play Lroy Glover. Bill played him, it knows when. Yeah, and there were several guys that that Bill did not like, and that when we switched to the three four, he didn't like that win. He didn't like Cokeley, and he didn't like Leroy Glover and all three of those guys kind of turn Yeah, it kind of turned. It turned around the

vision of what he saw for the position. And I wonder if the reason why they're not extending Aaron Donald is maybe a scheme fit and that sounds terrible for a guy. Yeah, yeah, but I think anymore. But how many times? How many times the team is in Nickel six? Yes, sixty six? I see that. But okay, why do you extend a wide receiver that has been in three different clubs and is not you know, I mean they you know, Cooks,

Brandon Cooks. Why does Brandy Cooks get paid you know, seventy million dollars and you're not paying a guy that's one of your best players. It's because Aaron Donald ons one hundred and forty million dollars. Eric Donald might be worth one hundred forty millions. Yes, I thought it was like forty eight. No, No, you're talking guaranteed or yeah, he did full amount. I'm saying they've extended guys. They gave the running back and I think the running backs

a really good player too. But to me, Aaron Donald is one of your best players years and and and now you're like, you're kind of playing with him. I mean playing with his his know, his thoughts and stuff. No, I mean that's the equivalent, well, the defensive equivalent of Zach Martin. I mean, you're obviously you are. You're signing Zach Martin long term. Obviously you're signing it. You know when you when you open the show and you start talking about Hall of Fame I thought you were gonna

go for the Hall of Fame players. Is he the only Hall of Fame players team for this team? I thought that's what direction you were going on, that Hall of Fame questions, that Zach hall of Fame players on this team. Uh, yeah, he's got to get the longevity Travis Frederick if he keeps collecting all pros as a center. Yeah, this team wins the super Bowl one day. I mean tingle Hoff took how long or because he Yeah, we just watched Jerry Kramers years. Yeah, talk about interior guys.

But but but the Hall of Fame players likely going to come from this offensive line. Yeah yeah at this point. Yeah, right, Laura, you don't see a thing with Lawrence. Maybe Lawrence one year, he's had one year, he has four or five years like he just had. Then he's all a shot about the marks were what about Zeke? Has a good Zeke? Yeah, we're just gonna forget about him. I'm just I'm not forgetting about anybody. I'm just throwing it out to Zeke's if he if he's able to sustain it. What kind

of crew do you think Zeke has here? Longivity wise, it's very interesting. He's got what max three years left, He's got seven years on the current deal, well, the current deal, the current deal, he's got three years, three years left, and then he could get franchise, right, get franchise, or he could get a next year to mark get franchised again. Yeah, you get him for seven years, So that's seven years total. Or maybe he's looking at that about the shelf life of a running back, but he'd

only beat twenty eight. Yep. Well, usually Arian Barber retired at twenty studies say twenty eight. Is the Marco just retired at twenty nine, thirty thirty seven years? Thirty wasn't thirty? Yeah, it was thirty for de Marco. Yeah, but the special ones go beyond twenty eight. They do the Hall of famerscope beyond twenty eight. Yeah, we'll see, we will see. Yes, get your crystal ball out. All right, Let's go to Randy and Kansas. Next up, I'm talking Cowboys. Hello Randy,

Hey guys, and here's a two parts. I've seen that Michael tub has been really good in training camp. Do you see him being like a number one over Alan Hearns? And do you think that Prescott is progressing from last year? From what you see? Has he gotten better? Okay, thanks Randy. I think on Gallup he's been really good at times, yeah, and then other times he hasn't been so good. And that's a that's a rookie basically for you. Um, I think long term he's got a potential to be a

good starter in this league. But I don't know, He's got to be consistent as a rookie and that's that might be a challenge for him. I think I think this year, I think you need somebody like Alan Hearns and stuff. Is he talking this year or eventually? I think he's talking eventually. I think eventually, yes, yeah, yeah,

I think so too. I think this time next year, if we're all god willing, we're here doing this, that that we'll be talking about him as a guy that's going to be battling for that number one spot or to remind you of in the league, who's a number one receiver people were talking about. There were all kinds of names that people were throwing at me through Michael Thomas name, Michael Thomas name from the Saints. I don't know if he's that that kind of a physical guy

with that, even though he's got the size. Yeah, I just I kind of feel like that with Thomas, you got more maybe a when he came in the league, he was a lot more of a physical guy. I think this guy's a I think this guy's a just as good a route runner as Thomas, But that that makes that makes somewhat sense. Do you think he's best as an ex er or y. I would like to see him because as well as he played, he can release off the line and so you could play him at the X. He's got that ability to get to

get some separation off the line. I bet if what's intriguing to him about him to me is how when you do put him on the move. You know, he caught a ball the other day coming across the field, you know, on a on a drag that I mean you're thinking like, okay, put him in motion, let him run and then let him go up and work while he's on the move. Well that that looks like a

pretty good combination for you right there as well. So by the way, at the combine he was six foot and three quarters inch tall, two h five with a four or five one on one sixty ten yards split right and see that thirty six vertical tim two broad jump. He's interesting because he's not he's not a Tavon Austin Burner, but he's explosive and he's fluid in his routes. Yeah, and he's and he's got he's kind of got all the tools. He's got Mickey's talked about his big hands.

He's got a white catch radius. I mean, he really can do anything. He Drew Pearson. What you he's quicker than Drew Pearson. I think Michael Irvin he is not his physical is yes, yeah, right, But I think Michael Erbi, Michael Ivan was just so posing out there. I don't know the thing. Not until nineteen ninety one though Michael got Maybe Michael. The videos of Michael coming in when he first came here was at eighty eight right eight

cut out. He looked at Yeah. In Miami, he was kind of a slender guy, and he got bigger and developed. You know. But when I think a big I think a Michael, and I think a physical receiver, right, But not at the beginning he became that in Miami. In Miami he was a go get that ball receivers what he was good route runner. Yeah. I wasn't dark hands, Yes, I wasn't here for all of it. Yet what about Antonio Bryant when he was here? Does your mind you at all of him? A little? He was crazy. I'm

talking about on the field. On the field as an explosive case two D two. Here's here's my description of Antonio O'Brian. I don't think Antonio Bryant knew where he was running. And he ran like you were seen a doberman run a dog when its front legs are over here and the back legs are over here. He was kind of that kind of a runner. He was explosive in and out of his bright what his what that one sixth one tells you? And then a four to

five one to finish. Then he starts a little slow and now when we kick it, we go and that's I think that's kind of where he is. So give me the guy. I mean, I like how he separates. But to your point about Bryant, Bryant was one of those guys that could. He was like he hit the ground real quick and then when he when he went across or ran or hit it, he was did it.

He was Antonio'briyant. Like does Bryant quicker, quicker, much, quicker, much quicker running routes, And I think his routes are better. And when you talk about hands, ab had some, you know, he had some ability to snatch the ball. There were times when he'd be running and you think he's not putting his hands up and then you know he would just do that. Him and Des are similar in that way.

I think Des never was. Despard was a big guy that really never looks smooth running rounds where this guy he gallop, he looks smooth running because I've seen him run some outs and stuff like he'll try and shake a guy inside. He'll take a guy in and that guy will adjust and then you see him burst to the outside and their separation there. You saw it at Colorado State too, his ability to get down the field

and separate. We're gonna hit on someone who gallop, reminds himself, we're gonna do We just need to think a little bit. People were telling me that. People asked me about what about Roddy White that was in Atlanta him, Yeah, and I'm thinking not really. So it's kind of hard to kind of gauge, I know, Michael Thomas Thompson. Someone mentioned Pierre Garson at San Franci Cisco, a bigger guy that's a good route runner. But I think he's faster than

He's faster than Garson, but he's got toughness. I mean, we've seen him go inside at the at the Senior Bowl, he's catching the ball in traffic and stuff like that. He's got a ton of a buildings. He does. He about Larry Fitzgerald. Faster than Larry Fitzgerald. Maybe not the precise of the route. It's not as big of a body as Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald, you look at his lower body, looks like a dark guard. Go back and look at Fitzgerald when I think Fitzgerald was a four seven oh

guy coming in. Yeah, yeah, I think he his time at his time at if I'm not mistaken, his time at Pittsburgh was not great. But the but the but Arizona, Arizona made a commitment. Oh no, no, that's I'm saying. Though he did not work out at the combine. Yeah, the thing the different. Larry Fitzgerald's a bigger player. He's sticker, Well, he's bigger. I mean at the combine he's Okay, gallup is six list cowbody is two h five. Fitzgerald was two hundred and twenty five pounds. Yeah at sixty three,

two twenty all on his lower body. Yeah, allows as a junior coming out Okay, right, yeah, so I mean he's a bigger k Yeah, I take that back. Yeah, all right, we'll continue here on talking Cowboys. Take more of your phone calls at nine seven two four nine seven forty four hundred. In just a moment, Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't cut it,

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Back to Talking Cowboys, Talking Cowboys continues here. Get about twenty minutes left on the show on a Saturday here in Oxnard, as cowboys are out on the practice field for their walkthrough behind us right now, practice at four o'clock this afternoon in Paths. In fact, they're working out the next four days afternoon practices on Saturday, Sunday and Monday, and eleven am practice on Tuesday. Head to Santa Clara on for the game against the forty nine ers on

Thursday night. It's a Thursday night first game. By the way, the home preseason opener against Cincinnati is two weeks from today, right about that? All right? As we continue here, how's Albert Brier doing? You're just talking with Albert. Yeah, Albert, he's stressed very well. Looks like he's a hit the vineyard vines at rack. It's got all kinds. He's got a great shirt and some like melancolored pants. He looks good, looks like he stepped right out of the catalog making

his training camp tour. You know what, I like to ask guys who have been to all these camps. I mean, he's bounced around, and I just always like to know who looks I'd love to do that one time. I'd love to go to all thirty two camps just kind of spend a day looking at players. Just does he do that? Or that's what he does? At two he basically does trying to hit him all. Yeah. Wow, it's a good way to a good way to kind of

get an idea who's playing where? So cool, but it'd be tough to get much in a one day trip. I was thinking about that just driving over this morning from the hotel. How much I enjoy being here for an extended time, because especially you get to this point of camp and a lot of the other TV guys have gone on and whatever, and and I really appreciate what y'all are able to do being here for the

entire camp. There's so much knowledge to glean every day out here, and now you can focus in on different position groups and really we do a one day hit like, yeah, you just don't know anything about the team. You're just going in for the story. That's good. You can't. You don't have time to analyze. Well, what you what you would hope to do, is you if you had if you had Scout buddies, you could you could saddle up

to it lunch and say, who do you got? Maybe someone says, hey, you need to watch this young guy. You need to watch this guy. But yeah, you're right, it's been on your access yea. Honestly, who you're talking exactly? Exactly? All right, We've got Will in Chicago next up on talking Cowboys. Hello Will, Hey, Bill House. They have a good one doing. I supposed to ask that, but I

have a comment in reference to the linebacker position. I know the last year and previous years, we've always given Sean Lee a rest during the preseason and also OTAs. But this year, the fact that we have increased talent with Jali Smith and that the first round draft pick

from this past year, I think it's thank you. I think one of the buy products of arresting Sean Lee during the preseason is gaining confidence with the remaining linebackers in the event that we do have to play without Shawn Lee at some point in time, given the fact that Shaun is still is probably one of the few players about thirty years old, at some point we're going to have to replace them. Do we see either of those two players, along with Damian Wilson sometimes in the

near future, maybe replacing Shan Lee. That's a good question. I think it's a fair question, but I don't think we know. Yeah. The thing that the thing that I look at with Vandersch, I don't see Vandersch playing the Will,

and I don't see Jalen Smith playing the Will. I think if they're gonna go out and get a guy that that, you know, a guy that go out and be the perfect fit for a will would be, for example, the kid that the Bears drafted from Georgia, you know you're gonna have to go out and get one of those types of guys. Okay, so I goes down, who plays the Will? I think I think they would probably put They would probably put March Lillard over there to

play the will, primarily Joe Thomas. Joe Thomas. Joe Thomas could play if he had to, but I think they would might go with a guy with a little bit more speech. Now, Yeah, that's no, that's what I'm saying.

March Lillards, Thomas Thomas, Joe Thomas has been playing as the nickel, but he's been playing like the nickel Mike when he gets on the field and they play march Lillard at the will is what they do in bas and and well when they do yeah and in basse in base Joe Joe Thomas could play all three spots. He could play all three spots. But I think that they would. I think that they would play. I think they would between again march Lillard. I think he would

play before marsh Lillard. Yeah. What do you think though, prevents Vanderesh or Jalen from playing that spot consistently. I think it's I think with with to me, that's a that's a run hit position. That is a you got to me. You look at you look at where you have Jalen Smith right now. I mean, I think Jalen Smith is getting better instincts wise, but I don't know if he has that right now, the currently, the ability to play the position from the backside and then run it.

I don't I think that. I think it's more I think they need him to be more at the point of attack and fight that and get that way. Then they need him running on these plays. You know, now, Vanderesh, I haven't seen him play. He's talked about learning all three spots, but they haven't seen him play will yet. He's so tall, Yeah, I mean he looks like a

little linebacker in Marinelli's scheme. Yes, exactly what they're Well, if you look at in the history of Marinelli's of linebackers, Derek Brooks is the one, maybe the best ones he's ever had. Herlocker, of course, is a Hall of Fame guy.

But yeah, it's to me, I just don't see Vanderish being is being that guy was strictly a middle lineback Rich strictly, and I think I think ultimately that's what Layton Vanderish is going to be himself, right, I think he's strictly So now it's gonna be Okay, who do you want to put in you at the will? If something goes down and you're right making, they very well might play. Joe Thomas said. I just think that that Joe Thomas, to me, would probably be a bitter fit

at Mike or on the strong side. And then you got and you got march Lillard as a little bit of a lighter guy that can run, get to the play stuff like that. You keep him unblocked and let him run to the football. And that's that's why I think you go with a little bit smaller guy at that position. And and justin march Lillard is listed at six foot two twenty two. I saw watched him be an interview just off to the side the other day. He looked like a little guy. Ye know, Well that's

what that's what saying. He's a guy that that if you want to put him, and that's what I profile in that week side linebacker. Yeah, you order a quicker guy, guy that can run. You don't want a guy that's big, tall, that has to take time. And they again, you guys brought up the point about Joe Thomas. He could play all three spots, but I would keep him. I would keep him primarily at the MIC or at the SAM myself. And that's what Damian Wilson's at the mic. That's a sam,

I mean sam. Yeah, Yeah, So a lot going on there. Well, I mean I just haven't seen I haven't seen them, you know. The replacement used to be Okay, just take you know Anti hitching Hitchens play him over there? Yeah, well Anti Hitchings to me is very similar body type

to what you see with march Lillard. That kind of a guy, maybe a little bit big so than have they now that obviously they drafted vander Esh in the first round, but have they really replaced ant at the versatility that Anthony Hitchings had being able to play it. That Will maybe now maybe it's because of the march Lillard and Joe Thomas you're gonna have at least you have options. Yeah, now to say, okay, we don't have

one guy, we got two guys. That's why they had to have those guys here, you know, because obviously, um the track record is not good. That Will still think they've got in their mind that maybe van der Esh can play over there. Oh Will, We just haven't seen it yet. Well, and that thing they want him to be focused on one. Yeah, he told us start a camp. He's been working at both spots and I'm with you,

I haven't seen it, but maybe maybe he's filmed studies. Mentally, I just I think he's a I think he's a perfect mic linebacker. I really do, Okay, I don't. We failed and it was my fault. We failed on Randy's in Kansas. Question about Dak making the progression. Are you able to see in training camp this early in training camp they making the progression that he needs to make

over what you saw last regular season. I haven't seen anything I didn't like, right, Yeah, I think if initially, I think initially he probably would be if he had something back that he wasn't as good throwing the deep ball. And I think now that we're now eight nine practices into this thing, I do think you're seeing him throw

the ball better down the field. I think he's getting accustomed to these receivers to they they threw something at him the other day I thought was pretty interesting throwing defense. That was the zone coverage down in the down in the red zone, and it made him have to play patient football. It made him have to say, Okay, I can't make that throw. I can't make that throw. I've

gotta make this throw. So, if you want to to say something, he talked about being more you know, protecting the ball, being you know, being more patient with things. I think if you want to say something, he might have improved on not trying to force things. I think that's something that tells a lot. If they're gonna drop, if they're gonna sit there and drop seven or eight people back, and and you're gonna try and force balls all day, you're gonna be like Johnny Manziel last night

and that Montreal Alouette scar Lord. Yeah, that's what's gonna happen to. That's why, that why, that's why, that's why I wasn't Fix and a half Vicky. That's why I wasn't watching the gold jacket thing. Now, I remember, and I worked out actually last night and I was watching the train Wreck on ESPN. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. When you when you forced the ball, Mike, Mike Sherman didn't get him like because he knows it.

Did you know Jerry Glenville still coaches for what team, Hamilton Tiger Cats, a defensive coordinator. He's seventy six years old, did a nice job. Last night. They showed him on the sideline that looks like Jerry Glenville, and sure enough it was Jerry Glanville, right. He looked like he was forty six? Did he have on did he have on the black duster while he was coaching the game, the

black long duster in the boots. You know, somebody's gonna say the same thing about Campbell when they see him in the sideline to the Southern cowd to say this, But I I didn't. You didn't know he was still life. It's good. He is good to know. Which. He's glad you saw which, which reminds me of a funny story. We were in Tampa. This is going back. I remember that hot well, every game in September and Tampa it is hot and humid and so forth. The game, Michael

Irvin scored the touchdown to win the game. It was nineteen ninety or ninety one at Tampa. It was. It was the hottest ninety I mean that locker room was so humid after it was as small ast cramped up, sobre humid. Yeah, the old sombrero there. But anyway, before the game, we're in the press box and I think they call it the Abe Gibron press box or something.

There's some tribute to Abe Gibron and they were uh, and they made an announcement coach for that, they they made some announcement about Abe Gibron and Jerry or former reporter Channel Channel, was sitting next to me in the press box and he says, God, I didn't know Abe Gibron was still alive. Then we hear there's a voice were right behind us him. I had a flashback to that one. I saw Jerry Gladville on the sideline. If I remember, you know my history here for the Chicago Bears.

George Allen got on the bad side of George Hollis for some reason, and when they had to, when he was leaving, they named Abe Gimbron the head coach. And that's when George Allen left. I think George Allen started with the Rams, but he went to the Rams. Okay, he was with the Bear Rams Redskins, but he was with the Bears. Yeah, am I right? No? I mean at the Bears. He was a disaster. He was a disaster Tampa. Oh man, I would say, if he has

a press box, just make sure he's not sitting behind you. Well, he passed away in nineteen ninety seven, Oh man. Abe Gibron was okay. He was with the He was offensive line coach with the Bears sixty five to sixty nine. Then defensive coordinator. Maybe it was head coach seventy two to seventy four. Yeah, and then he became the Chicago Wins head coach. Yeah, exactly exactly, and name went to Tampa after that as a defensive coordinator from seventy six

to eighty four. Okay, how quick can you look up George Allen? Well? But can I finish up my thing about Dak? Yeah? I think I think the thing about with again, it's about patience with him. If if he's not trying to force passes, I think that's a that's a thing because last year, and Mickey was right about some of the stuff, he threw some good balls that

got clanged up in the air, you know. But if you see him going through progressions, if you see him reading defense is if you see him making the right decisions, that only boats well. And I think we've seen that again. The only thing I really saw initially was the touch on the deep ball, But I think that's improved as we've gone along here in camp, and even with the guys seving some probably a little bit some tired arms. Yeah,

I think he's throwing the ball pretty well. Very rarely do you see him throw a ball that you're like, oh, where was that? Yeah, you know already a lot of that whelready. He finished in the top ten. I think it was number six. Yeah, he was in the top ten. No, I said where though, I assumed he was. Well he's in that's good. Yeah, yeah, Well what nine or ten? No? I think he was six or seven and then on the top ten. I don't remember. Off the top of Dallas Cowboys dot com, we had the top guys in

camp so far. Okay, uh, George Allen answer your question, Mickey. He was a Bears assistant from fifty eight to sixty five. Then he was with the Rams for five years sixty six to seventy, and then to the Redskins from seventy one to seventy seven. I just remember there was something that went on between Allen and he and Hellis signed up with Gibberon instead of Papa Bart didn't make a lot of good decisions that time. Yeah, he was starting to lose it, all right. A couple of minutes left

on talking Cowboys here as well. Let's spend the last couple of minutes previewing tomorrow's Blue White Scrimmage, which you can watch here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com, t x A twenty one and Dallas Fort Worth six o'clock Central time, four o'clock here, and make sure if you're in sunny southern California to head on over here to Oxnard and watch you got They'll be on the field right over there where the grandstand is. Great opportunity to watch this

team in action. It's fun for the whole family with a youth combine for the kids as well. What are y'all looking forward to in the scrimmage tomorrow scrimmage portion of practice tomorrow, Well, when they actually scrimmage, it will be at the blue period. And I just want to see what some of these young guys that we think we know actually play football. And you know you're gonna start tackling, yeah, I assume right. And you know we can see where what Armstrong's doing, right, we could see

what you know, this Antoine Woods whatever. You know, somebody knows his name now, you know, Crawford knows who he is, The owner knows who he is. Good. Yeah, you know some of those guys, some of those backup tackles. You know, anybody got anything because it's still that position. We're a little worried about, right, Yeah, and they're gonna have to play. Somebody's gonna have to be backups. There made it through an entire show without mentioning the name Cam Fleming until

just now. Yeah, go ahead. I think with Cam Fleming again, he's a fifty to fifty fifty guy. A little bit better in practice the other day. So yeah, we'll see how that all swings out with us. He plays with those guys. No, he's been in the blue period. He's been getting been in there, has been getting work at left tackle in the blue period. Maybe they're trying to get him in a little bit better shape, a little bit better conditioning, maybe trying to accelerate the play knowledge

and stuff. But yeah, I'm always interested in offensive defensive lines. I'll throw the quarter backs out there too. Which one of these quarterbacks to marrow can maybe separate a little bit? Which one will which one when we do our show on Monday, Will we have a better taste in our mouth about the way, and maybe that will launch one of these guys to play. Talking about Cooper Rush, yeah exactly, exactly, that's right. The final word from Rob. I'm watching these

tight ends. I want to continue to see Blake Jarlin's done a nice job in camp up to this point. I think Jeff Swain has been solid. Who else can step up? And you know, is there going to be more clarity of this job as we get closer to preseason game number one? All right? Should be fun on Sunday. Enjoy your weekend in the meantime, and we will see you live from the practice field. Of the Blue was

done already on Sunday. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.