Talkin' Cowboys: Early Impressions

by Geico here from Oxnard, California. It's the first show we've done from out here at Cowboys Training Camp, presented by him Errican Airlines, Rob Phillips, and Well, we were supposed to get the bank, the band of brothers, the gang back together. That has not happened, as Mickey Spagnola will join us at some point throughout the course of this this podcast, but I'm Kyle Yeoman's it'll be me and Rob Phillips for a quick moment here. But this

is one way that camp gets underway. We're talking Cowboys. You sent us a rundown for the show. Has mentioned how many camps he's been to, like thirty five, Yeah, thirty five camps. We figure out the Dallas, California time difference, you know, let's just let's get that settled here the first week of camp. Mick, he'll be here. He'll be here, I'm sure he will. He may have a he may have a scoop or something. You know. Yeah, it may

come back with a big scoop. Yeah, we can't make fun of him too much because maybe that's what he's doing. Maybe he's out there, he's talking with players. He's gonna bring it back to us and we're gonna have plenty of information to relay back to the Cowboys fans back home. Or he was just on a Sunrise bike ride. Who knows either way throughout California. But Rob, what what training

camp is this for you? Fifteen and all of them in Oxnard or I guess not necessarily a handful in San Antonio, including my first one in h three, which happened to be Bill Parcel's first camp as Cowboys head coach. But the majority out here and it is so nice to be but it's cold out here today. It is yell Philly. We're both wearing sleeves at the moment, and of course this being nine am Pacific Coast time compared to the eleven am for the majority of our audience

back in Texas, and hey, look who made the trip Pola. Yeah, we're gonna have to get back over here and kind of scoot in and get him here. This is professional radio. This is fantastic, thirty five years of camp experience, everybody, and this is Mickey Spagnola back on Talking Cowboys. Were you just that excited to get back on this podcast? All right? I almost wear that ship today too. I was thinking that I needed to be back here by nine o'clock, and I got back at eight forty and

I go, okay, I got twenty minutes, went to breakfast. Oh, I forgot good thing you'd text me? Yeah, I thought you're asleep. You didn't answer me. We've been riding for an hour and a half. It was a sunrise bike ride. What was your route? Where you go? We went down Vineyard to the Oxnard Airport, took a ride and went to the beach. Nice cool. I showed Alex the way. And now I'm out of breath too, great talk Cowboys. I am all right, absolutely. Now I will ask this question.

I was about to ask it to Rob a moment ago. But throughout all of your training camps that you've been a part of it, I've never been late for talking Cowboys. There's one god, Um, I was gonna ask, has there ever been a training camp that you've been around that has been so excitable? Has there been so much excitement and so much anticipation around a training camp much like

this one? Maybe not necessarily because of the expectations. Sure there are some expectations that are there, but mostly just getting back to normal and getting back to Oxnard, Mickey. Maybe in and I got to remember where we were two thousand and seven when t O showed up or he was here and Tony Romo was going to be the starting quarterback, so I can kind of kind of remember that. Now eighty nine, there was a lot of

excitement when Jimmy Johnson became the head coach. Troy Aikman was the first pick in the draft, so yeah, there was some serious excitement then. And then they went out and in four preseason games they went three and one and won the last one at home in the last seconds over Houston and Jimmy and Jerry running off the

field at the arms in the air. And then things went downhill quickly because they went to New Orleans for the opener and got the snot knocked out of him twenty eight to nothing, and then reality set in that maybe we're all ways away. I think they didn't even gain two hundred yards, got shut out and back in the day the Cowboys score. The one thing Tom Landry teams did is they scored points right, and it was like their first shutout in twenty years or the first

time they were shut out in twenty some years. So yeah, but I remember that training camp. It was pretty exciting, and actually it was my first one to be at training camp. The entire time before that, it was a week at a time for I was a backup guy. And so when they gave the beat writer time off, because back then training camp was like five six weeks, so they let them either go home or bring somebody out, and so I would go for a week. I was the relief man. But yeah, that was my first one.

The only one that compares for me is oh eight when Hard Knocks was here. Oh wow, ironically, and you know, there was just so much star power on that team and so much Super Bowl expectations, yet TiO running on the beach in the Hard Knocks episode and it was just it felt like a Hollywood script. You know, this is, like you said, excitable for a different reason. This just feels like a fresh start for this whole organization, not just us getting to be back here, but you know,

I think this is your first camp. Yeah, but for anybody that's been out here, Mickey and I, Chris and obviously members of the organization, this is like a second home for the Dallas Cowboys. It really is. There's a there's a comfort level coming out here. And when you run into people these first few days, it's not just players and coaches, but staff members people we haven't seen

that much for a year and a half. There is a it's almost like a sense of relief for people to see each other a little bit and feel like we've got some simbulance of normalcy right now. It's you feel in this like a homecoming. It is. I just ran into one of the guys that has been working here, I swear since we've come. He was in the in the lunch room, and I just saw him for the first time. I hadn't seen him before, and I said, oh, you're still here. He goes, yeah, and it's good to

have you back, you know. And I had made friends, we used to stay over closer to like where you are, where the pool is. And every morning when i'd get up to go work out, this guy was out there cleaning the leaves out of the pool. And I don't remember his name, but we became friends, like, Hey, how you doing this morning, you know, And every year he'd be out there cleaning the pool. Right. I haven't seen him this year, but I've seen some of the volunteers

that we're used to being around. They're back. And all these people that you haven't seen in two years, will you forget their names, but all these people are back. To the security people, they're back, and they're also happy to be here volunteering again. And let me see, that's a capital V volunteering. And not just that, but staff within the Cowboys that we used to see all the time at the Star and we don't as much anymore.

And even when players are happy to see us, that's you know, that there's a sense of relief because we make their jobs difficult, you know. So I just think I think that is what Jerry was trying to get across when he kind of got emotional a couple days ago at the press conference. There is a sense of normalcy right now, and let's enjoy it because you know, this pandemic is not over, and hopefully it stays the way it is, right. That's like I told you the

other day. When I showed up on time for the podcast, I passed Dak and I heard him kind of shout out right, yeah, And I turned to my left to see who he was yelling at, you know, and he got up the steps and he yelled at me again, and he goes, hey, good to see you. And I said, oh, he's talking to me right, you know. And and and I realized, how long has it been since I've been that close to Dak Prescott to say hi? Well, we have to go back to December or in the last

season of the twenty nineteen season. Yeah, he may have seen us on a video conference call, yeah, but maybe not that close to him and and actually talk or

just say hi, you know. And was so different, And it's happened with a lot of people like I had a long conversation the other day with Mike McCord, the head of the equipment hadn't talked to him, and year, sure, you know, and we're used to being around these guys, you know, all the time, and I think they returned to normalcy really got came to a peak yesterday whenever the first practice was out on the field and then you kind of got out there and we were making

our way to our spot, and the players were already out on the field, and guess what, fans started filing in. Yeah, and they were all lined up on the fence and they were talking to everybody, and they were yelling at players. They were singing Ezekiel Elliott, Happy Birthday. There were so many different animated things that hasn't been a part not only of training camp, but of football the last couple of years, just because of the COVID nineteen protocols and stuff.

But I do want to talk about the practice and kind of get into that a little bit. Yesterday Mike McCarthy doing his press conference said it was going to be simplified. Early on, he said it was going to be a reinstall of the offense. We're gonna lay a foundation. We'll get to some of the simulated practice stuff pretty quickly. However, we want to make sure the foundation is set for some of these young guys and then also maybe some

of the changes, especially on defense. But Mickey as you were watching practice yesterday, was there anything that stuck out to you overall? I don't know so much about practice, but from his press conference, which you know, how many times have we seen him do that that close? Right? Yeah, we got to go back to Dack citing his con track. Uh, and then the draft the draft, Yeah, but from the contract standpoint, we hadn't talked to him in person since

January of twenty twenty, right, Yeah. So, uh, here's what stuck out to me. The first I don't know, what do you think ten fifteen minutes of the press conference was about COVID nineteen. That's what stuck out to me that there was a huge discussion on that, and you know, not only did they have to talk about it when they did the camp opening press conference, that then Mike had to continue to sort of address it. And it's

you know, it's a hot topic. I mean, especially after what the NFL came down yesterday right with UM, you know, if if you're unvaccinated and and you create a breakout, um, you know they're gonna find you. You're gonna forfeit games and there's no more rescheduling. And so to me, that tells you the NFL can't come out and tell players you need to get vaccinated, but they can give ramifications if you don't, and the NFL PA has to sign

off on that, and I'm assuming they did. So there's a lot of centives for these guys to get vaccinated, and no more so than when Zeke was asked the question and he kind of gave the politically correct answer and then somebody said, yeah, but if you're unvaccinated and you cause a breakout, they're gonna, they're gonna it's gonna cost you a check, And all of a sudden his eyes light up and go a check, check, a check,

Zeke's check in particular. Right, it's pretty nice. Yeah, And so that got his attention and maybe it's got the other player's attention too. So I know you asked about the practice, but that that's the two days. Yeah, this first two days. Really that's what stuck out. That's why it's a semblance of normalcy. Yeah, it's not there. Yeah, because this is still an issue. It's still an issue league. Why now the Cowboys feel good about where they are?

They think Steven Jones said that he thinks they're going to hit that eighty five percent that the league wants in terms of vaccinations, but they're not there yet, and so there are some protocols around here. As far as practice, you know, it's it's still ota mini camp. Feel sure. I mean, they're they're not in pads and they won't be until next week. That's just part of the league protocols, I think, or league rules. You got to be day seven,

I think to get back in pads. But you know, it kind of reminded me of early practices that we've seen in camps before, where the defense maybe a little bit ahead in terms of making plays on the ball and the offense not quite as crisp. And and look, honestly, there's a lot of new faces on the offense, at least with the first team that not new signings, but just guys coming back from injury. And I think it'll

kind of sort itself out as we go here. But you know, we gotta tap the brakes a little bit on evaluations early because we're we're not seeing anything really different in terms of padded work and that type of stuff. But Mike McCarthy did speak to it, there's gonna be some more competitive stuff early because they feel good about the installations they did in the spring to where now they can just kind of review it and then get after it with some situational work and some competitive stuff,

which is fun. And yeah, and then you know, one of the things, they were still offensively for a lot of the team drills and even the seven on seven they were still doing their scramble thing where they weren't running a play that was called. It was like, okay, here's the formation, and then Dak starts spinning around and you know, trying to scramble and throw on the run.

So there was a lot of that going on still, and he showing that, you know, I'm fine, I can run, I can plant, I can stop and start, I can throw deep, you know. And I heard somebody go yeah, typical Dak Prescott. He won very good, and it's like, okay, seriously, this is the first time they did team since he had his foot going the wrong way. Yeah, right, Yeah,

he did none of that in the right ring. And I mean it was all seven seven on seven or against air or even when they had eleven, it was eleven on seven, and there was no no line, no rush, there was no congestion around him. So yeah, it's like, give me a break. And the other thing is, when you're in practices like this, you're gonna throw the ball. You're not gonna take a sack or you're not gonna just throw it away right. You're gonna try to drill one in and it might get intercepted, but big deal.

The way you do, you're trying to find out where your margin of error is. And it's like the comeback one that Digs picked off right away. It's like, Okay, in the game, he's not throwing that pass and he just tried to drill it in there. He has said that for five years that in training camp, I'm gonna take chances, I'm gonna test my limits. I'm also gonna show my guys I'm willing to throw it up to you and try to let you make a play on the ball. But in games he's going to be more

cautious in terms of not making mistakes. So that's a good point by Mick. I remember I remember one training camp and somebody was like, I don't I don't know. I don't remember who it was or what affiliation it was, but they were new to training camp, and so the offense was practicing against the scout team or no, the defense was practicing against the offensive scout team. Okay, And and and the next day the next morning is you

know who's hot and who's not? Well, who's not was the scout team quarterback because he got picked off five times? Oh yeah, sure, well you're supposed to throw the ball so the defense could succeed, right, And I was like, oh, come on, let's not go through this. Uh so yeah, but you know, even those guys they're gonna they're gonna gun it in there and see what they can do. So it's really hard to judge, especially the first practice, right, um,

and the defense should be playing well, you know. And and who you know caught your eye again, you know, because he's caught everybody's eye and perked their right. Yeah. Again, he's always making a play on the ball. It seems like one or two every practice. Three in the span of six plays yesterday, he's uh, you know, he he's turning some heads. And he can close so quickly because

of his length. Yes, you know, he can get up on even if he's beat on a play, he's got the arm length to close and make a play on the ball. And he did it two straight plays earlier in the pract and if I had arms like that, I'd have been great in tennis. Uncortunately the net, Josh Nicky's gonna win win Wimbledon with long arms. The one thing you're looking at in these practices isn't, like you said, It isn't the stats. It isn't the charts, It isn't

in completions, completions and whatnot, whatever it may be. You're looking for footwork, you're looking for positions, you're looking for speed at the same time, and I think Nishan right, that was what was intriguing about yesterday. Not only was he getting a hand on the football on multiple occasions, but his footwork was good, his closing speed was there, and then the change of direction was honestly there too,

that I thought was pretty impressive overall. Before we do take our first break, I wanted to give a quick update for those who did not see it on the breaking already. Yeah yeah, yeah, right, I miss unfortunately the quick update on the pup list, the physically unable to perform list, Amari Cooper to Marcus Lawrence, Tristan Hill, Mitch Hyatt, Greg Zurline, a couple of those names on there. T J. Vascher not on the pup list. He's on a different

list at the moment. Triston Hill Tristan Yes, yeah, Tristan hill On There anybody that sticks out there that has any concern for you guys going into camp. I don't know if it's concerned. I think the surprise was I don't think we knew Greg Zerline had back surgery, had any issue, yeah, because but you know, he wasn't there for the OTAs and he wasn't there for Mini camp. And I remember asking somebody about are the kickers like working inside when we're outside, and it was like, yeah,

I think that's what they're doing. And it's like, well, because I haven't seen Zurline and somebody goes, well, he's a veteran. He didn't need to be out here. And it's like, oh, okay, you know he wasn't perfect. So and then you know, you hate to hear your kicker

had back surgery. But if he had it like after the season in January, and it's and I'm assuming the worst, right, I don't know that it was a disc, but I'm assuming when it's a back, it's usually is that's a three month recovery, so he they're probably out of an abundance of caution with him and all the rest of the guys the same thing. Yeah, it was zeroline. I don't think it's anything long term, and they you know, Mike said that about all the guys they're coming off

these lists now. DeMarcus Lawrence has a back too. Did the back surgery in the spring, apparently clean up procedure. I don't know what a clean up procedure means necessarily with the back, and it's his third procedure I believe of his career. Um but there they say they're not concerned about it. So we'll see. He's in great hands with the athletic training staff. But the sooner he could get back out there, obviously the better. For this. I'm assuming he had it while before we saw him doing

his rehab stuff. Yeah, the OTAs in mini camps. He's out there, and if that's the case, he was running pretty good during that. That's why I didn't think it was he had any leg issue or anything. But um, yeah,

it's it's a three month recovery. And you know, I can take you back to the summer of ninety three when Troy Aikman had his dissurgery micro dissectomy, and he had it middle of June, and by the second or third preseason game, he's diving head first into the end zone for a touchdown and it's like, seriously, can't be doing that. And they told him, you know, you don't need to run, and he did that. Jimmy, you're out. That's it. Take his helmet away. It's a good way

to put it. And I think Mine McCarthy said it in his press conference, but Tristan Hill probably the furthest from being ready is one of the one things that he said. I had a little bit of perspective on that that if they needed him to be out there,

he would be out there. But they're kind of so slow playing it because there might be somewhat of a log jam tackle and especially if Bohanna proves that he can do something right and so, I don't know, it may have something to do with, yeah, let's watch his back, but we put him on pup and if we do get a log jam there, then you can leave him on pup right and and and you would buy what is it eight eight more weeks at least six six minimum six minimum, right, Yeah, and then you if something

happens in the defensive line, then oh I got here in my last pocket. You don't have to take up a roster spot in order to exactly So I think there might be some of that uh talk in there. The other thing too, Yeah, the other thing too is he's three hundred pounds and what we've heard about the you know, coming off acls if you're if you're heavier player, it can take a little bit longer than maybe a Blake Jarwin who's at two forty five to fifty. So I think that's part of it too. They just want

to get him in the right place. And again, yeah, the numbers Mike reference to the press conference, d tackle is one. They've got to figure out who's gonna make this team, who's gonna play because you know, they needed to upgrade that position in the interior big time, and they've got some numbers they like, Yeah, keep that thought, you gotta hit. Yeah, I was gonna hit the break real quick and then we'll hit somet's come back to

the defensive tackles. But okay, we could do that. We're gonna actually, yeah, we'll push fans to the on the fifty. On the final segment, we'll come back and talk some defensive tackle. When we return. You're on Talking Cowboys, presented by Geico Honey, Big News. Gary. Are you okay? Oh? I'm not Gary anymore. I'm Jackie Flash. What see? I want the latest smartphone, but the best deals are only for new customers. So to get a new customer deal,

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back to talking Cowboys. Whether you're watching from home or you're cheering in the stands, with lenses, you can see every exciting play book an appointment at your local experts and see what selor can do for you. See more, do more, or on Talking Cowboys. No, Isaiah this week to do your little sel lenses. I'm wearing mine at the moment. Rob's got an appointment to get his when we get back. What am I me? I know you're back on Talking Cowboys, so we need to get you

some we make it happen. We'll be able to make that, make that work. But uh, yeah, we've got uh, We've got Mickey's Bagnola, Rob Phillips and Isaiah stand back and heck Ma Harrison a part of the coverage back at the Star. They'll join us of course again in whenever we returned back to Frisco. But Talking Cowboys back for the twenty twenty one season. In before we headed a break, Mickey, you wanted to talk a little bit more about defensive town. Yeah,

we were talking about defensive tackle. Rob brought it up that McCartney. McCarthy said there's gonna be some competition there. Well, yeah, because coming to training camp, I'm sitting there going, well, I don't know who the starters are. Well, the first two guys to go out, I believe it was uh Neville Gallimore and uh Carlo Carlos Watkins Watkins Watson, I keep want to call him Watson um and and stay with the Shawn Watson in college. Yeah, and then and

on the Texans too. There you go, And that's that was kind of okay, that's what they're thinking. I guess now it's a matter of Okay, let's see let's see what uh Brent Urban can do. Let's see what osa Odigi Zua can do. Um and and there's and then you got Bohannah in there, right, So that's gonna be some serious competition. And I think that to me, that position there kind of highlights everything on defense because I think there's gonna be a lot of competition for all

but maybe two or three starting spots. To me, Lawrence as a starter, Gregory's a starter, digs as a starter, Okay, Okay. Now the other corner, they got Anthony Brown there, but he's gonna have to play well to keep that spot. And then the safeties, I think it's open. I don't you know, I don't. I don't think anything's grandfathered into anybody. And Samon linebacker. Now they're going out there you know, when they're just two linebackers with Vander esh And and

Jalen Smith. But how about this, I think I saw an alignment out there with three linebackers at the same time. There were a bunch of different snaps with that right, and I saw it rotate. Barson's playing all three. I think he was at least playing the strong side because he was out there covering in man on the tight end. The majority, the majority of parts and snaps came off the edge. He did play some at the mic. He's did play some at the will. I think he played

more at the will than he did at the mic. Well, he was playing. You saw him on the edge though he was. There was three linebackers exactly, and and he was either covering or they they they blitzed him from the strong side. So his versatility I think creates huge

competition at that linebacker spot. And let's not forget Dabril Cox either, by the way, uh so between those four guys and then Coian O'Neill five who had a forced fumble, Yes, right on Michael Gallop so but Mick, I think his versatility is a good thing in terms of maybe opening up snaps for everybody, no, because you can. You can. He's a he's a Swiss army knife that you can move around different spots. You guys are right. He plays everywhere. I was watching the one on one there wasn't one

of the the ones. It was pass rush drills before they got in teamwork with the offensive lineman defensive lineman. He's on the edge rushing, he has this sick inside move on I forget which tackle it was for a would be sack, and then he's then you watch him in team drills and he's dropping, covering tight ends and running backs.

He can do a lot of different things, and they're putting a lot on his plate, but he can do a lot of different would you You wouldn't be surprised if he was out there on special teams, would you? I would not. In coverage, nothing would surprise me. I think you know my job for him. I want him to be the personal protector on the punt team because I want to see him snap him the ball and

I want to see him run with the ball. One thing you said that I might disagree with you on the number of starters that I think are kind of set in my mind. Anyway. On defense, I think Neville Gallimore is a starter this year at defensive I don't know if that's a lock though. I don't know if it's a lock, but I think that's what I think. It's good enough to earn it. Yeah, but he's I

have to earn. He's got to earn it. But I think they view him as as a maybe you know, cornerstone hopefully going forward on defensive if he can keep up what he did last year. To me, I think Layton vander Esch health Willing is going to be a starter at linebacker. I think he is. I think the scheme change and going back to probably the will will help him just kind of what he's used to doing. And it's gonna be yeah, but it's gonna be interesting

with the linebacker spots. How they figure that out, how Jalen Smith fits in, How Michael He's gonna play a lot, but how Michael Parsons fits in. And Neil's gonna play too. He's there, he's at linebacker for a reason. For dan Quinn. What about Donovan Wilson, why is he not being conversation or said as a lock? I think he knows about as good of a lock as a starter could be at the safety's part. I think we have to see

it now coming into training. Can't remember he didn't do anything those last few weeks in the off season workouts, did not participate in OTA's wasn't really a big part of the He wasn't in mini camp, and so that was the first time we saw him on the field and he did. But I think he's still got to earn it because I don't think that you know, you know, is Kazy gonna be the free We we got to

see that yesterday. Jay Ron Curse, who I didn't realize was that tall, right, Uh, you know, I'm sure he's not rolling over, especially after he earned some starting uh games at Minnesota. So I think there's a lot of competition there. Uh well, so yeah, I just think that nobody better have two bad days in a row because they may lose their rotation spot. So yeah, I think the competition is great and we can go back to where we started a defensive tackle. Yeah, let's go. I

want to see it. What was the biggest problem last year stopping the run in that area too? Yeah, the interior, you know, allowing linebackers, not giving linebackers enough space, to go make plays and they're just second level just on him right away. That happened way too often in the

run game last year. Is that why you think Neville Gallimore is going to be a cornerstone of the defense is because of the run defense and what he could do potentially sideline to sideline as compared to what they had in the past with maybe an Antoine Woods and

Tyrone Crawford. Yeah, I just yeah, stopping the run. But I think he just you know, one thing, when I talked to players at mini camp about you know, dan Quinn style, they said, it's up the field, and it kind of reminds you of what people said about Rod Marinelli's scheme. We're gonna get up the field. We're gonna be disruptive, and it's not just a matter of just holding blocks and holding up lineman. And I think Nevill Gallimore has a chance to be an explosive up the

field rusher to help this defense out. I think he can really develop into that. We'll see, we'll see. But he showed flashes of it last year. He did it a little bit last year. He did it a lot during his time in Norman. He did it a lot for Oklahoma, and I think that was where some of the intrigue came with him where they got him in

the third round last year. Yeah, and I think I think though his his biggest problem at Oklahoma was the fact that they were playing a three four sure and he's not a three four defensive end, and that's what they had being better play the three technique in a four man line where he's not getting double teamed the whole time, right, And if he is getting double team then good luck. Who's ever blocking Randy Gregory right or DeMarcus Lawrence or Osa diggiz who or whoever ends up

being that other starter at defensive tackle. Now, you mentioned Dan Quinn and some of the changes that he's made. Have you, guys? Of course, you've been around a lot longer than I have, and you've seen the Rod Marinelli days, You've seen other defensive coordinators other than Mike Nolan. But there feels like an energy. There feels like a tempo from this defense. Even in practices that resemble OTAs and minicamp sort of deals, it still felt like there was

an energy. Though yesterday, am I wrong in saying that? Uh No? And the other word I use for The impression I got of what he's done with this defense is organized. They look organized. Everybody kind of seems to understand what they're doing. I think yesterday and look, I'm not charting every play. I think I saw. I might have been sitting standing next to you. I saw one busted coverage. Okay, last year that was their biggest problem

defensively to me. You know, it's one thing to get beat physically, but to bust coverages the way they did is inexcusable. And I think I only saw one. I think I remember Kelvin Joseph, like everybody was in man and he was playing zone. There was something wrong on the right side. His guy ran wide open, ride a open. Jerry was here, right, But but they seem organized, and I see him talking and calling out like, hey, line up, line up there, and that wasn't happening last year, So

good on him. Whatever they've done in the off season. And I know they didn't have an off season last year, right, And they tried to install too much defensively, way too much without any offseason work over the computer. Yeah, and then and then at three weeks the game and zooming and no preseason, no preseason, right. I mean every team

dealt with that though, let's point that out. They had but they but they all didn't have new defensive coordinators and new defensive line coach and new linebacker coach, new secondary coaches. I think the only one you can argue had a successful year under those circumstances was probably Cleveland. Right. Yeah, maybe Washington a little bit better. And I don't know that their entire staff changed. You know, you never know

what what happened. You we see head coaches changed. When the head coach has changed, usually the whole staff is changing. And the majority of the defensive staff changed, right, those two teams that you just mentioned, the personnel is better, was better last year than it was year. It just are you saying Washington's base or are you saying with the injuries that the Cowboys deal with? Well, I'm both,

but I'm talking defensively. I think, you know, if Dan Quinn's gonna happen a lot of success here, he's got to have playmakers, and I think they're taking steps to do that. And when they're at full strength, they do have some playmakers on this defense. Um, but yeah, Mickey's right, it's to me and I've said this on our show all offseason. It's a it's about the communication and getting guys to trust the scheme. And when you trust the scheme,

you play fast. That's what Joe Thomas, who's not here anymore, he's in he was, but he said that mid season last year, and it really stuck with me. That was the biggest problem. Guys started to kind of settle in by November December, and it was too late, you know, at that point. But but I think dan Quinn's communication. His former players talk about it. Demante Kazi had a great story yesterday about when he did you hear that story, Mick. When he first started in Atlanta playing for dan Quinn,

he had been a corner his whole life. Yes, yes, So they move him to safety where you've got to be the quarterback of the defense. You got to talk, you gotta communicate, you gotta get people lined up. He was hesitant to do that because usually at the corner, Hey, you line up against your guy and your island, your man. You play your island. Yeah, Rivas Island, right, but rob Pie Island. H Yeah, there we go. That's the best. Shout out to Heck and Isaiah. But um to get

him to communicate more. Dan Quinn miked him up hard knocks style every practice, and they would go into his office after practice and listen to what he said and how he communicated in practice, and it helped him communicate better as a safety. I mean, that is that's coaching, that's teaching hands on approach. It's impressive. I want to know where dan Quinn was when I started college to

teach me how to take notes. Tell that story right, he's he did, spends ten minutes of their team meeting defensively explaining to them how to how to take notes, Like, you can't write down everything I say because you can't keep up, So you got to learn to pick out the important things and write them down. And I guarantee you my first my first class in college was a five hundred person lecture on American history. And I didn't take notes in high school. You didn't take notes in

high school. We didn't. We didn't take notes in high school. And all of a sudden, I'm sitting there trying to write all this stuff down, and then I'm you know, it took me a year in classes like that to realize, Okay, you got to read the stuff. Remember what he highlights of what he told you, and then go back and look at it again. And then when I got into this business, and you know, no one was using tape recorders back then, Um yeah, we had teletype two by

the way. Um you you learned to listen to what the person was saying and kind of right down, and you learned your own little shorthand on on words like if somebody said something about through, well through means t h are you you don't need the ou gh you know, uh? And and but you learned how to take notes and and that's what he was trying to explain to these guys. I thought that was pretty interesting just watching him. And again we'll see how you know. What's one other thing.

He used to be a teacher. I think he started off in high school. Well maybe that's where it comes. And he he was a teach. What that's what these guys are, right. Sure, I don't coaches or teach. If you're coaching, you're teaching, right. And I think he started off in high school. I think I read and he was actually had classes, not just p that's interesting. Well, we'll see how it again, we will see how it all comes together on the field. It's got to come

together on the field. But you watched dan Quinn on the field in between series before drills. He's right in the middle of of it, talking to guys. And I'll just say that Mike Nolan has had a great career coaching, but he was more detached. He was he was on the other side of the field, talkie and you know,

he wasn't his hands on as dan Quinny. I think given the situation they were in last year with the restrictions and the lack of time on the field, they probably needed more hands on defensive coordinator with the new scheme. That's what dan Quinn does. But see, he what what I think Mike's mistake was he he he made his bones in the NFL before he became a coordinator and

a head coach as a linebacker coach. Sure, so I thought he would spend all his time with the linebackers and he didn't know, you know, he had, uh is it Scott mccurly, Scott and George George he delegated and and but but Mike did the kind of walk around thing. Yeah, well dan Quinn ain't walking around. He's with the defensive line, right, he's the defensive line coach basically, and that's kind of what Mari and how Marinelli did it, right. Marinelli was

the coordinator, but he was the defensive line coach. And so I think I think I liked Quinn's approach. I like the fact that George Edwards looks like he's taken over the linebacker spot. They bring in Joe Witt Junior to help with the secondary um and that's a lot of experience, right, because last year I'm gonna forget the guy's name, he ended up getting the head coaching job at Buffalo, New Yeah, and that was the first time he had coached in the NFL too, So you had

a lot of inexperience helping out McCarthy. And hey, hey, look, when when you get named the head coach, you don't have carte blanche treatment to hire whoever you want. They got to be available, yeah, right, And so I think you know, it takes time, and Jason Garrett can tell you this. You know, he inherited his staff basically when he became head coach. But it takes time to get the guys you really want on your staff. Because he

I gotta be a failber. You've got to be able to bring them in and they've got to be interested in what you're selling them. That's a great point and I think it is refreshing as to what we've seen with Dan Quinn over the first couple days of Cowboys training camp and went come back. We're gonna wrap things up. We're gonna answer a couple very quick, very quick fan questions with fans on the fifty when we return here on Talking Cowboys. Hi, I'm Clid Tillison with United aggin Turf.

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standing room only tickets are on sale now. Get yours today at Dallas Cowboys dot com slash tickets a chance to see the Cowboys that are out here in Oxnard. And of course every practice at Oxnard open to the public and free admission, so there were tons of fans out there. Was really energetic. It was a lot of fun. And I'm sure tomorrow is gonna be nuts because it's Saturday. People are off and they're gonna be able to make trips and it's gonna be oopening ceremony. Oh yeah, yep,

that's no thing Saturday. I think usually it is Saturday. I think it is tomorrow. We'll double check so that'll break in more people. There's gonna be a lot of people tomorrow because this is I'm not gonna say that I don't have the schedule because they usually they don't get that many practices on the always on the weekend. But I think it might have got planned out a little bit better this Yeah, it definitely did. There's more

there's Saturday Sunday. Yeah, there's more days off this year in camp, just because of the league rules and and so they got to maximize the practices that I think it's twelve or thirteen practices out here. That's it. Yeah, so what, But but camp doesn't end when they're right that. Jason Garrett taught us that because you got another what two weeks back home, yes you do, or three weeks before you actually opened the season. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's gonna be plenty more of camp to come whenever we

do break camp here in Oxnar. But it was funny. I was writing this rundown last night, which, by the way, we have not hit on anything in the rundown, but that's fun Save it for Sunday. It's okay. Yeah, use for saying thanks to me. I'm sure it's okay. Mikey. We like having you back, so I wrote fans on the fifty, and I was like, there's no way we're gonna hit it at fifty. We're gonna hit this at twenty.

It's fine, whatever, but I don't want to call it Twitter on the twenty because that's of course what the Draft Show does, but we're actually starting this on the fifty. I've got a question from sting Ray any concern over the loss of leadership following the retirements of Shan Lee and Tyrone Crawford. Ropp will start with you. Yes, to

some extent, Yes, anytime you lose both guys. I think Tyrone Crawford's leadership people don't really know as much about what he brought to the locker room and kind of a mentor for DeMarcus Lawrence early in his career as much as Sean Lee, because we've here about Sean Lee's leadership all the time throughout his career. Yeah, I do think there's a void there, but I think it can be filled. I think there's guys that with their work ethic, you know, Layton vander Esh comes to mind, and there's

there's young guys coming up. I think DeMarcus Lawrence has that too. In terms of just kind of his spirit on the field. There's guys that can fill that void. Mike McCarthy talked about that Mick at the press conference that you don't have to be a veteran too, you can be a rookie. I think Michael Parsons approach to the game can rub off on people, even in his first year at twenty two years old. So I think

there's guys who can step in. Layton Vanderish was on his way to doing that last year, and then things got derailed. First, there was no offseason, and so when he got to training camp, he was much more vocal. I thought he was much more opinionated in his press conferences, right, and so, and they put him in the middle, So great, you're the middle linebacker. You're gonna be more vocal, right and was it one quarter into the season and he

breaks his collar bone. So now you're out four weeks and by time you get your sea legs back underneath you when you come back, it's basically you were out six weeks. And and so it kind of derailed him taking charge when you're out. Even for Sean Lee when he was out, it was hard for him to speak up a lot. Uh and then he gets hurt at the end of the year. So I think you're right

on vander Esh. I like the sound of a couple of the guys they've brought in that played for dan Quinn for dan Quinn, And I was very impressed with Demante Kaz yesterday. He looks like you know, he reminded me of kind of looks like him too, Aaron Glenn when Aaron Glenn was here, And Aaron Glenn was a veteran guy that was a really good leader in that secondary.

And I think Keane O'Neill probably could fill in that void also, So it's good to have some veteran guys in there to help out with missing those two guys. You know, it's hard to replace Sean Lee. John Lee there, it replaced basically was a linebacker coach last year and and so you you miss him. Uh. I like the fact that George Edgwards is running the linebackers because that's his deal. That's how he made his bones in the NFL, going back to the linebackers, and that's how he became

a defensive coordinator. Yeah, playing here, I've got I've got two more questions. He's gonna be rapid fire. I'm gonna start with Big Jay's question. He said, if you had to pick one player on defense to make the Pro Bowl this year, who would it be and why? Mickey Michael Parsons, ooh, that's a bold statement. I'm okay with that, rob aside from DeMarcus Lawrence. So I think he's done it. He's he's a star when he's healthy. Um. I think

Layton Vanderesh can have a big ear this year. I think he's got He says he doesn't have a chip on his shoulder with the contract and all that, but oh, he definitely does. He's got a chip on his shoulder all the time. He kind of reminds me of Sean Lee. Don we forget his rookie year. He was a Pro Bowl Yeah right, yes, and in the first Pro Bowl linebacker rookie linebacker for like forever. Yeah. So yeah, good, good pick. But you know it's it's not you know,

he's had some bad luck. I agree with him. You know, you break your collar bone, you step on somebody's foot, and you twist your ankle. I don't think it's all, Oh, he's just injury prone, but he's got to be able to stay on the field to get comfortable. I think he was on the field last year he didn't seem as comfortable with his role. Well he changed, yeah, and I think the production showed it. I think if he can just stay on the field, I think Dan Quinn's

gonna put him in good spots to be successful. You got a guy, uh yeah, I was gonna say Treyvon Dicks, Okay, kind of change it up a little bit. I agree, DeMarcus Lawrence is there. I love the pick on Layton vander Esch because I do think he will have a bounce back year. And I'll tell you one guy. Don't go to sleep on Randy Gregory. Yeah, I agree a completely he can. He just looks spectacular. I know the pads, Yeah, I gotta watch that, But just watch his pass rush,

his bend. He do you if they're in some pass rush drills and they're in a line and he's up first and tied Niseki's next, He'll go, yeah, you know, my knee a little bit, I'll get the next one. I'm gonna get over here the helmet. Yeah, final question. I do like that though. Man. The thought of Randy Gregory and de Marcus Lawrence is exciting hard to tell early, and this is from Chris By the right way, not Chris Beam, even though he's doing great work. Chris would

like to ask questions. He could ask questions if he wanted to hard to tell early. But with so much emphasis on length and speed in the off season, was there a noticeable difference there whenever we watched practice yesterday. I think it's too too early to tell on that. Except for the long arms of Sean Wright, Oh yeah, yeah,

length kind of helps him. Yeah yeah, he's got some speed to him too, But I don't know who else they added that has length like that, and Chauncey's out, so Brent Urban does pretty much everybody they sign and urbane human being. He is a huge six foot seven, three hundred pounds. He is a large human being that doesn't that doesn't show up until yeah, yeah, right, we gotta wait on that thin and then and then just

the size of Bohannah. Yeah, he's pretty any he moves, he doesn't move like a guy that's six four three thirty Um, so I'm being interested to see that. Yea. A matter of fact, that's Nate Newton's pet cat. He wants to see more of Bohannah. As a matter of fact, he wants him to force the coaches force him in there to give him snaps because he thinks that big body would create havoc in the middle. One other name,

not length, but speed. Kelvin Joseph is a guy we didn't really see much in the off season, and he made a play on the ball against I think it was and I just think it's just a gut feeling that I don't know if he's gonna be a starter week one, but I do think his talent is going to show up out here, and I do think he's gonna play, and maybe he is a walking starter. But even if he's not, I think we kind of forgot about him because he wasn't on the field that much

and we saw Nashan Wright make all these plays. There's a reason he was drafted in the second round in speed and ball skills are the big reason why he may be one of those guys that maybe Week five and all of a sudden he shows up, yes, and he may give him some opportunities to earn his spot. Kind of reminds me when Kevin Smith came in as a first round picked cornerback, and it was ninety one ninety two and I Coult was the starter and Pop didn't start until about eight ten games into the season.

But once he got out there, look out, he's taken on Jared. He's baiting Jerry Rice. It's like young and mind yourself, right, but he wouldn't back off, you know. And but sometimes from a cornerback standpoint, it takes a while to make that. You know, port Port tray Von Diggs, you know, day one starter, you're out there, buddy. We got injuries, so we got no choice, right, and we saw the growing pains. M I'll be interested to see after those growing pains how much better he is after

an off season offseason workout. And he made some plays against Michael Gallup yesterday. Again it's it's not pads and all that stuff. But remember the top four corners all missed at least one game last year. So they need Kelvin Joseph to be ready. They need Na Shawn Right to be ready. It's possible both guys get starts this year, depending on how injuries work out. So and you got to have at least really four corners that you feel good about in this Leagueuzier missed half the season. Yeah, um,

Big Game missed like four I think games. Joe Lewis missed the opener, so yeah, yeah. Having all those guys back and at least depth, I think that's what I'm most excited about is the fact that there is some death, not only in the cornerback room, but also a defensive line. We just named seven different defensive tackles and defensive ends that could make an impact this year, and they probably all can't make the team. Right, No, right, there's gonna

be some odd men out. And I can't remember if I mentioned this in the In the press conference, Jerry mentioned that their top ten or or maybe as Stephen ten or eleven players paid, you know, they they got to get production from them, and last year we had a lot of injuries. So I went back and looked out out of the top salaries right now, the top eleven. If I look back to last year, eight of those guys miss seventy five games. Eight w seventy five games

from your top paid players. That's bad. And we can start with Daks. You got no games out of Layo Collins, You got two games out of Tyrn Smith, you got one game out of Blake Jarwin, who I think was eleventh. He was the eleventh highest paid player. Yeah, he didn't even finish. You can count it. You know, you lost games from vander esh uh, you lost six games from Zach Martin, uh Dak's games. You eleven, missed a game

from Zeke had one game he missed. So and if you take Zeke out, then it's seven guys missing seventy four games. Oh my gosh, it's an easy road to six and ten that way, right. Yeah, that's a lot of money you spent for I R can't make a ton of excuses, but that's one that it's blatant. I mean, that is a fact. That's not an excuse, that's a fact. Whenever you have your top eleven players missing that much time, it's gonna affect you. But that's gonna do it for

us here talking cowboys. Plenty more to come, Mick, glad have you been? When are we doing this again? Sunday? Okay? Yeah? Do you want to market the same time? Andine am right here. I'll set your alarm on your phone right now, and we and we start at nine just so we we are all get that underway. It's eleven o'clock Central time back in Texas. Will be back on Sunday, but until then for Rob Phillips, Mickey's Back, No Rom, Kyle

Yeoman's that's it for Talking Cowboys, presented by Guyko. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club