Talkin' Cowboys: Drafting WR?

table for Talking Cowboys. Welcome Rob, thanks man, it's good to be back. Good to be back. And some applause it was, yes, some big applause for you. And he doesn't want to Yeah, he doesn't want to push the button. It's okay. But at the same time, happy things for you and your family. We wish you the best in man, how you feeling right now? No, ask him if he's sleeping. Yeah, how are you sleeping right now? I'm a little sleep deprived. It's gone from she'll sleep seven hours. She's four months,

four weeks old today, she's a month old. Today, she sleeps seven hours straight. Some nights. Some nights like last night, not at all. Yeah, but it's fine because she's too cute to get mad at. But I am happy to be back, happy to be back. And uh, it's funny the things that get you happy when you're a new parent, like when they burp everything, Like it's like, man, I accomplish something, you know, so why don't they are grumpy? That's right, that's right. Whole life changes. But it's gonna

be back. And a lot of things have kind of come and gone since you've been gone. I mean the NFL combine now in the rearview mirror, a TV broadcaster now is being paid seventeen million dollars in a former Cowboys quarterback at that, and Tony Romo and his new contract with CBS and then making You wrote about it a little bit in your mix shots this past week. But the famed Leaning Tower of Dallas is coming gone. It went yesterday you sat about it came tumbling down.

I wanted to see how long it could last? Right, what was do you know the amount of days that it ended up lasting? I read it? Is it like twelve? It's almost two weeks? Twelve, let's say twelve? The things that we sensationalized these days, halfcial media. We love it is the leaning Tower of Dallas. It's gonna say if you're a tourist, if you're thinking about tourism in Dallas, is that a comment on the things to do and see in Dallas? If we're like, we got its shape, man,

this is gonna be a landmark in Dallas. Shape. The amazing thing is so that the wrecking ball was hitting it in the brick wood fall, little piece of cement with fall, and then when it came tumbling down, it got hit up top and the whole thing came down. Yeah, and it was like, well, why didn't that happen before you find the sweet spot? I think they did that

by design. They knew all the marketing dollars, the T shirts with I mean, the thing had his own Instagram, it dead and Twitter as well, and it was it was tweeting from the dead yesterday saying I'm a wreck I'm Peter. Channel I think Channel eight had a live camera on it the whole time. It was streaming on their website so you could check in on at any

time you want it. It It was just to make sure, yeah, that's isn't it crazy, like you said, the things that we sensationalize, and I mean that was a construction failure. It wasn't supposed to be there. No, actually it was a construction brilliant Who remember built it? Built it awfully? Well, yeah, they really did. Actually, there was a story in the Morning News today they talked to the two daughters of the architect who designed it. Oh yeah, the guy I

think passed away a couple of years ago. But they talked about how well they built things. Not built the same way anymore, are they? And they built it from the inside out, so that structure was the first part of it with all bunch of cement, and then they built around it for the rest of the tower, so it was more dynamite. Yes, right, there is. That's how you build an NFL roster from the inside out. All that's how I think. How about that for a segue.

That's what I'm here for. I've been saving it up man, four weeks. Oh, thank goodness you are back, because we do have to talk about building this roster. And we'll start things off by looking back at the NFL combine. There was plenty that went on over the past week. Jerry spoke to the media, Mike McCarthy had a press conference, and then of course the actual drills in the combine going on. World hit all three of those throughout the course of the show. But let's start with the man

upstairs and talking about Jerry Jones. Jerry, of course met with the local media in the bus in Indianapolis. That's the first show that we've had for Talking Cowboys since that interview took place. Was there anything of substance from that interview or there were a lot of different things. I mean, it was almost an hour and a half that he went on and on and on. They were talking points, there were different subjects and topics put out there,

But was there anything specific that stuck out to you guys? Well, for me, I think the Dak thing continues to dominate the new cycle and it should. And I mean anytime you compare the quarterback to your son, that is that drew my attention and it reinforced the fact that they they really value Dak is the future of this franchise and they need to get something done. Will they get something done by March twelfth? I don't know. I mean,

you could be pretty skeptical about that. The fact they haven't talked in September, but that's that's the number one thing going right now. Can they get this thing done? How does that impact everything else? And the CBA as well, and the Cowboys are kind of operating in a tough situation right now because they want to see how the new language impacts the salary cap and some of their financial flexibility going forward. Make I We'll see, but I think they feel like they can get it done at

some point and get in franchise if they have to. Yeah. I think one of the things you took from what Jerry said is it's kind of an old philosophy of tech Shram that I think he taught Jerry when the sale went through that what's good for the league is good for the Cowboys, not if it's good for the Cowboys,

then don't worry about the league. And his thoughts were, you know, I should have voted no for this, because then if we didn't get this CBA ratified, I'd have two tags to use instead of one if it gets passed. But he sided with what's best for the league long term, not what's best for the Cowboys on the shirt term. I thought the other thing that stood out to me, and most of his comments had always seemed to come back to this, we're building a team, and he kept

saying it. We're building a team, and whatever I do with the Cowboys money is to make the Cowboys better. I'm not worried about saving a nickel or a dime. It's not my money. It's salary cap money. And so I thought, that to me is what stuck out that. You know, it's almost like and I wrote about it on Friday, going back to Jason Garrett's little theme of the team, the team, the team, and that's the way

they're looking at this. What money I spend for Dak Prescott, maybe Amari Cooper, how does that affect the rest of the team, Because I've got to put a team together with twenty five free agents out there, impending free agents out there. So that's what stuck out to me over a minute and minute, a minute, hour and twenty one minutes, I think, is what the what the video came out to. Yeah, I'm telling you, I'm one of those people. Macul listened

to Jerry Jones speak for hours. Man. I love He's a great storyteller, and I mean it is historian basically talking about pre Cowboys, being an entrepreneur and then purchasing the Cowboys in the thousands of deals that he's had to make, you know, contracts that he's gone over and just talking about the history of making those deals and just understanding that you can't be in a rush to

get things done. He told a story about a guy and he a guy that came to his church and was talking about someone being in an accident and severing and an artery. And you know, it's a difference between a guy that severs an artery and runs into the forest and bleeds out and dies of shock or a guy that sits there and holds the womb and waits

on help. And so, I mean, it's a it's a story, it's an analogy for for all time with just basically saying, look, you gotta be patient and you just can't rush to things.

But I just absolutely loved it, just going over the source, even the story about Emmy Smith's deal, when you know, he was thinking that he was gonna get Emma's deal done and them and said, well, nope, just come pick up my ring and I'm gonna you know, you know, be waiting, you know, sitting this thing out, and Jerry says, man, I've almost spent eight hours at a watering hole in New York thinking that, you know, Lasseter was gonna be my running back. And actually ten minutes later Emmitt called

and said, let's get this thing done. But we didn't have cell phones back then. So I absolutely love the interview well and kind of the interview. Really the big point of the interview what he started off with was

that CBA negotiation. Both you, Rob and Mick have just to hit on it already, but kind of go through what that means, because right now, the way it stands, right you can use both a franchise and a transition tag in the last year of the CBA, which is that what we're in right now in twenty twenty with the CBA that's in in existence at this point. But in all the other years you get to use one one. And so if the new CBA has the same rule

in there, then you get to use one. And the difference is the transition the franchise tag depending on what level you use, you know, team. If you just use the regular franchise tag, then the player can negotiate a contract or an offer sheet from another team, and then you have the right of first refusal and if you refuse, then they owe you two first round picks in this year. The transition tag, or I should say the exclusive tag

means they can't sign an offer sheet. Then they can only play for you that costs six million dollars more during the season. And then the transition tag basically is the same thing as the regular franchise tag, with the exception is all you get is right of first refusal to get no compensation if you don't if you don't match the offer sheet. So which is if you because you have to match some monster deal that an offer sheet that the player might sign. Absolutely, but it gives

you some level of protection. Now at least you have an opportunity to say, okay, you go see what market value is and then we'll see if we think we can afford market value. But that talks to how delicate the situation is. Because if you sign guys and you believe that you have two tags and the deal, the CBA deal is actually made, it's like oops, got to tear up one, and the whole negotiation process starts all over again. And he spoke to how delicate this is

because the Cowboys are not. This is an inopportune time for the Cowboys to have have this situation with Dak and Cooper both being on the table and Byron Jones. Yeah, it's not It's not ideal for Jerry Jones at all at all because and you know, it sounds like the reports are the NFL is trying to hustle to get this thing in the NFLPA in a position to vote on for the players. Can that happen in the next nine days. We'll see, It might take another week or two,

and that could impact I don't know. I mean, I guess they would always have the option to move things back again if they want to, right, Yeah, and they could. They could do that to make things easier on teams, or maybe we'll have a we'll have a Super Thursday, because we could have a Super Thursday. But it does impact. You know, they've talked all along Dack's number one priority, Mary's number two. And that was the other interesting thing that stood out to me with Jerry was Byron Jones.

I mean, he's basically was very matter of fact. It's gonna be tough to get him resigned. I think they could do it. I think they could fit all those contracts underneath. But it reminds you. It's just a reminder of when you finally have to pay a quarterback a ton of money. You have to make concessions, you have to make tough decisions, and it's gonna come down to Byron Jones and he just may not be back. Well, somebody should come down to four guys in my book, yes,

because Robert Quinn's important. Like, if Robert Quinn's not here, who's taking a spot Probably a draftee Randy Gregory if he comes back. Yeah, yeah, that's in the new cycle too. He wants to get reinstated and he should be able to. If a guy like Josh Josh Gordon can get back in the league, then definitely Randy Gregory should be able to. But make you alluded to that last a couple of weeks ago about Byron Jones basically allowing him to go out and test the market, and that's exactly what he's

gonna do. He's gonna see if there are any suitors out there. And I think from from a fans standpoint, it's always been very interesting the undervalue, the undervaluing of Byron Jones at this point, because if his absence is going to leave a hole in the defense. If we don't, if we don't get resigned him, then obviously we're looking at the guys that we have on defense, which aren't a lot of guys, and then we're looking to the draft to potentially get a guy and hope that that

works out when you already have that on your team. See, and you've got to go through free agency before the draft. True, so you don't know. You can't sit there and go, well, now I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna draft a guy because you don't know that's going to happen, right, you don't know what you're gonna get. No, you don't, and then you start reaching. So well, what they do, though, Mick, what if they lose Byron Jones. What they normally do

is they try to give themselves some coverage. They try to sign somebody, right I stand a veteran to get, you know, as maybe a stop gap if they have to, and then see what they do in the draft. But I'm with you, agmat like, I think if Byron Jones leaves, that's your number one need on your roster at that point, because immediately immediately. You also need bodies the same time. Bodies. What have Robert Quinn's nut there? Well, then let's take your pick. It's one A, one B. Yeah that's my point.

But but don't you think he makes a corner better A good corner or a good defensive A good defensive end led you in sacks, by the way, but you have nobody behind him, no nobody, Right, Tyron Crawford might get back, but he's not a three down defensive end. He's not going to be a pass rusher, right, And then who else you're going to rely on? You got armstrong? Yeah, I mean, and the same thing at corner? Who Who's who's the next guy? After the two that are here?

There's no other corners not to mention? Pass next year, Cheeto's up. I believes you can look ahead that farther down if you want to as well. But don't you feel a little bit better from a financial standpoint? You might have a better chance to get Quinn resigned than Jones if he hits the market. Oh, I don't know. He made seven point nine million last year on a one year deal. He's thirty years old, Okay, thirty years old.

This is going to be his last contract. He ain't sitting there and going, oh yeah, whatever, my last big chance. I got to hit a home run. Eleven and a half sacks by the way, and I believe I've figured out that he and DeMarcus Lawrence over the last since twenty sixteen on have the same amount of sacks. So that's gonna be a He's got forty sacks in four years. He's got a selling point to go off of, including the fact that twenty nineteen was his best season since

twenty thirteen. Right now, calculated market values and this is based off of spottrack dot com. Robert Quinn's at eleven point eight million, Byron Jones at fourteen point two, So it's not a ton of difference there. Now, if you don't bring back Byron Jones, there's a bigger chance that you could get a Robert Quinn back and maybe even bring back a guy like Randall Cobb, who will be just under seven million potentially coming back to Dallas, if

that's what Mike McCarthy and company wants. But brings up the conversation of these tags again, franchise tag, transition tag. If the Cowboys used both of these isn't there a chance and isn't there a clause that if the CBA does not get done within the next nine days, and it does get done right around that free agency period, can they revoke attack. I read that immediately that they could that they could rescind one. You know, he's right.

That's why in so, what's today the third? Yes? Correct? Yeah, nine days, So you got fifteen days before free agency starts, right, Gotta get some guys signed. Yeah, get get the big ones signed, and then you could tag a Quinn or you could tag a Byron Jones if you want to keep them on a one year deal. But if you got four guys like that and you don't get any of them signed before the tag expires on the twelve,

well you got you. That's why the priority has to be getting back to a long term deal because all of the rest of the dominos start to follow the exactly, and so the brain trust has to when you speak to the value of Quinn, obviously everybody knows what he's done in the year that he's been with the Cowboys, and you don't want to just let that production walk. If you're if you're evaluating players and so Mike McCarthy. That's one of the things. I'm sure that once he

got the job, that's what he started doing. He I mean, because he didn't go to these guys directly. And how do you feel about being a cowboy? You know, he sits down and he looks at the at the tape and everybody knows that the eye and the sky don't lie. And Mike and Quinn has put that tape together to say, look, I am valued. And when you go back and I think the one thing about Byron Jones has been even with all his productivity, he didn't have the interceptions to

go with it. And so if he's going to test the market and also test the market in the way where he's one of the top five paid cornerbacks, that I don't believe that just from just the way that you know, the brain Trust has been talking about him, I don't think that anyone values him as one of the top five guys. Well, he's a fast any free somebody else is gonna absolutely so, yeah, that must mean he's pretty good. Yeah, And if you watch the tech, I mean, he is by far the most consistent dB

they've had by far. He doesn't some of some of his lack of takeaways or that he doesn't get thrown at a lot. Um, But if they don't have him, they don't have a consistent guy back there. I know Mike Nolan, the new defensive coordinator, emphasizes takeaways, and so that's interesting to me because Byron doesn't hasn't had them. But as a steady guy back there, you're you're not looking at the same type of depth chart him. Now

you say they don't throw with him. Now, We've had guys in that played for the Cowboys like Dion Sanders that no one would dare throw at d Now is they're not throwing at Byron Jones because they're scared he's gonna take it to the house, or as the deficiency on the other side, that blaring that will take a chance by exposing this bigger weakness. They went after Cheetoh

a lot last year, after him a lot last year. Um. But but I will say make to your point in techman's point, yes, you gotta try to try to get something done with Dak. I'm not sure how much movement they can get. Stephen Jones always says all it takes is a little bit of wiggle room in agreement and then they can start hammering something out and it gets done faster than you think. Dak Ra Amari try to get one done here in the next week or so.

That's BOSSI crucial for that to be the case. And Byron Jones you mentioned of being an interesting free agent. It's also interesting to look at Cowboys first round picks over the past decade. Since two thousand and eight, there have been eleven first round picks. Only six of them have gone on at any point in their career to go play for other teams. Mike Jenkins, Felix Jones, Des Bryant, Morris Clayborne, Taco Charlton, and Byron Jones would be the six.

We'll talk about Byron Jones and some of these other free agents that potentially could come back to Dallas coming up in our next segment, we're gonna go through what Mike McCarthy said up in Indianapolis. We'll be back here in just a moment. You're listening to Talking Cowboys here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. I'm Jay Novachik, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys back in the day. How was the guy who always got the tough yards, and

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September twenty nineteen to Talking Cowboys, Thank you from the Star in Frisco. Heckma, Rob Mickey and myself Kyle Yeoman's As we roll on In the segment number two, we talked a little bit about what Jerry had to say at the NFL combine in Indianapolis this past week. How about the head coach, mister Mike McCarthy. He had a press conference as well since the last filming of this podcast,

and wanted to get your thoughts on this one. Some of the things that stuck out to you throughout the course of Mike McCarthy's press conference, Well, I will say this, he said something that gave me a Hollylujah moment, guys, and he said, if if the guy is good, is good at football, he can play for me. I like that. I finally we got a guy that is if he could play, he could play for me. I like the way that sound. And he's not looking for scheme guys,

He's looking for football players. And that's that's That was the biggest thing that I took away from what he was saying, and also just being being a part of the whole drafting process and talking about giving complimenting Will McClay on his job, and obviously everyone's talking analytics and the job that the you know, the role that analytics

plays and drafting. You know, he and Ted Thompson were not a matchmate in Heaven, So I think he's really happy about bidding in a situation like this where he doesn't have to take the heat for a good you know, for a bad draft pick, but actually get the praise when he makes a good one. See, I thought the thing that resonated to me when they were asking him about positions and who you want back, and he said, my first goal is try to get as many of the guys back as you can, meaning I'm not into

looking at all these free agents. Because I think people thought, well, Jason Garrett stymied efforts to go get other free agents. He wanted his own guys back. Well, that's what Mike McCarthy wants, because you know who you have, you don't know who you might get. And so his goal was to try to resign him so that you know, we were talking about the cornerback. Anthony Brown's going to be cheap, right.

He missed half the year, right, so I don't know what I don't know what his market value is, right, And he was a third corner that can be a starter, and he proved himself last year. So I think I think you know, they missed him, missed him a lot. Uh, And so maybe you can get him on a one year prove it deal and then at least you have something at that cornerback spot. If you can't get Byron Jones, and you leave Jordan Lewis where he belongs in the slot and not starting on the outside, so that you

would have a placeholder there. And then you go into the draft and go, oh, one of these corners lands in my lap. Okay, I can take it now, and I can have competition. That was the other thing that McCarthy said, when if you're worried about UH draftings the best player and you've already got good players at that position, and he said, you can't have enough good football players. I want a competitive roster as you can possibly have.

So say I don't know a wide receiver lands in your lap at seventeen, and you say, well, I don't need one. Well, okay, let's have one and let's have some competition out there. Yeah, and I know the value there. You guys know better than I do. But the value of wide receiver looks really good in this draft. In the draft, however, man, this defense needs a lot of help. Oh,

I know, a lot of help. But what if that wide receiver is a ten times better player than the corner ben I agree with you, but that seems almost like a luxury pick. If you bring back Randall Cob well, and this is this is a debate we're actually going to have in the third segment as well, when we go back through and look through some of those guys

specifically that weren't performing at the combine. But kind of going with wide receiver here along with saying Mike McCarthy said he wants to have the best players in the building. He wants to have that, but he also said he wants a lot of these veteran guys too. And there's some veteran guys at the moment that are up in the air in terms of the Dallas Cowboys, Jason Wit and Randall Cobb and Sean Lemos notably, make me a case for any of those guys to be back on

the roster. Sean Lee's a little bit of an easier case. But what about a Randall Cobb and a Jason Witten, both guys who were up in the air at the moment. Okay, so if Cobb's not there, who's your third receiver? Probably a drafted receiver. And what do drafted receivers do? Take a year to develop? And we watched Gallup get better to learn the slot. It takes some time. Well, and I see, they don't have anybody that's going to step into the slot right now. So now you're looking at

in the first three rounds drafting a wide receiver. Well, there were a couple of guys this year that made some impact at wide receiver. Deebo Samuel for San Francisco. I went to the Super Bowl on Cowboys Rosco. I'm saying, rookie's wide receivers in g right, we'll go who else? Well, Deebo Samuel is the first one. DK Metcalf from Seattle made some impacts as a rookie. I mean, there are guys out there that have done that. Not not the

high percentage of them though, No, you're right. But when you say make a case for a guy Randall Cobb, obviously the numbers were not off the charts, but at the same time, the intangibles, the leadership quality, the ball to the if he fit right in on this team, and guys had nothing but high praise for Randall Cobb in his leadership ability. And then when you talk about a coach like his former coach coming in in the

offensive system, we don't know. Look how this is gonna look as far as from a play calling standpoint, and so even from that, Randall Cobb is going to be a guy that's gonna at least familiarize guys with what Mike McCarthy's system is going to be and will be on McCarthy's side. I think it's every new coach need somebody in the locker room that will be on the coach's side. If you look at things that have happened previously, you know, look at what Bill did when he first

got here. Guys brought in a bunch of guys that were veteran guys in free agency because he wanted some of his guys in that locker room right saying, hey, this guy knows what he's doing, right, he needed to follow him. He took the words out of my mouth. And Joe Thomas could be another one too. Yeah, the guy that's aid for him, started games for him. That linebacker position so many question marks. When he's healthy, he's

pretty good. And so that's the guy that could bring back to I think Cobb's an easy sell for what Mickey just said, when Heckman just said, I think he's an easy sell to come back if he wants to come back. If you know, we'll see if he wants to test the market. But that's the only coach he's ever had. And that's just why, that's why you can't sit there and say, Okay, Dak Prescott, here's forty million dollars a year. Because you need these guys, absolutely need

Joe thomas Is on your team. You need Randall Cobbs on your team. You've got to have a team. You can't have four stars and then forty nine just other dudes, right, You got to have a team, and those guys are important. We didn't bring up MALIEK. Collins. Mallie Collins needs to come back because you don't have anybody else at that because now you may get it in the draft, but I don't know that. So you know, by time the

draft ends or starts, free agency's basically over. Everybody's kind of picked over everything that they want and you're gonna have leftovers there. So you know who's your three technique defensive tackle. If you're in a four to three, if MALIEK. Collins and I think Jeff he's another guy, you could resign, try to resign him. And then if you want to bring in some competition at safety in the draft, whatever you want to do. That's an option too. But here's

the other part that I wanted to say. When you look at the coach. Coach Jerry Jones spoke about this in his pressor that he was really impressed how Mike McCarthy put the staff together. And when you look around the NFL and you talk about parcels bringing in his guys, you gotta know that even for coach Mike Nolan being in New Orleans, the free agents that they have and Tom Sula being in for the Redskins, the free agents that they have, guys that they can bring in and

implement and be on their side. So there are a number of names that you know, like Miles Humphrey, Caleb Brantley. Even for Mike Nolan, man Tito, He's a household name. People know who he is. He's been pretty serviceable as

a linebacker in New Orleans. But also I think a lot needs to be made about having Al Harris on this staff because he is a proven guy that guys, he has the reputation, but also the fact that he has probably just calapulted himself as a really good coach dB coach and I believe and I well, I'm hoping that these guys will be receptive to him being someone that has proven himself and being in Kansas City. And I just want to bring this up. Maybe this is a name that no one has thought about. He's been

tied to the Cowboys. But Eric Berry, guy that's been out of the league. You may know more about this than me. But at the same time, Eric Berry is a guy that's been out of the league, has been all wealth. You know, fault cancer, had some injuries to his achilles, but still he's still out there on the market and still young enough that he has should have some juice in there in the tank. He's got a

great story fighting back from kancer. I know they brought him in for a visit and a physical and the health thing, the medical because he's beyond what he dealt with off the field with the cancer issue. He's had so many injuries to make that I was a cursory visit, like a look, see, they just did a favor. I think, well, if the Cowboys are bringing a man boy, you better watch old. They're going to sign him, or did a favor to his agent. He's he's not young, isn't he

like thirty? I think he's in his third low thirties, and he's had injury history. But Eric, I mean Eric Weddle just just retired at thirty five and he was still playing at the top level. But he hadn't been fighting injuries the way this guy's been fighting. But still, I mean, even being in the situation where we have to we have holes to feel right, Yes, and so how much does he want to play for? Well, that's

still a question mark. That probably wasn't a whole lot that. Oh, I don't know when you're there when when when you're close to retiring, money keeps you playing right, So let's just say glass halfl that he wants to get back in the NFL and he has something in his tank that that we could use. Can he still play? We're gonna find out here pretty soon. Well I can't. I can't such a risk though I only got so many

salary cap dollars and they can't be taken chances. I think if they had interest, they would have done it last year and they brought him in and they didn't do it. But there's no question safety. They need to do something to cover themselves because it's an option in the draft. But you don't want to. You know, they try to fill as many holes as they can so they're not reaching when they get there. That's what they always try to do. But mick back to something you

said earlier about Jason. I don't think people feel like Garrett hamstrung them in free agency. This is a Stephen Jones in a front office decision that they try to bring back their guys because they don't. They feel like what's out there is out there for a reason, and they have a better knowledge of their own guys and trust in their own guy. But you know what the fan reaction is the free agency. The Cowboys aren't doing

anything even though they resigned their own guys. It's like they didn't do anything, Like what did you do to get better? They should go get somebody else. They got their own guys. They wait till the second wave, right. Yeah, But that and I think people are thinking, okay, on a new head coach, that's gonna change. Well, no, what he's said now with twenty five year old want as many as my own guys back. Yeah, they need to. They've got to fill out. To Kyle's point, they got

to fill out a roster. You gotta build a team, you gotta have bodies in the building. Yeah, well, the defense, the defenses, there's so much turnover there. And when you talk about free agency and the guys that we haven't signed like a honey Badger. Okay. And so I'm not, you know, promoting one guy over another. I just know that we have to fill it in holes. Because let's say Jeff he has value for another team, Yeah, you know, because he is a serviceable, serviceable veteran that has proven

himself and the Cowboys can't bring him back. Same with Anthony Brown. What if there's a market for him and we just can't say, oh, he's gonna come back to us at some point. With the free agents that we have on defense, this thing may completely look like a different whole cast of characters. Yeah, if you can't afford Anthony Brown back, then you got problems. Yeah, that's a

little bit of an issue. Right if they say, if some teams paying Anthony Brown so much money that you can't afford it, then what am I getting that's next? Behind Anthony Brown? You know, I mean I think he's a good player. He's not great, but he's good. A market for him, but well, then what I'm saying though, then, just like there was a market for Anthony Hitchins going somewhere else, rightly Wilson, But then who do you get behind Anthony Hitchins. Whatever you're going to sign, somebody else's

ain't gonna be as good as Anthony Hitchins. Might not be as good as Anthony Brown if somebody valued him at that amount of money. So instead of Anthony Hitchins, you had Joe Thomas exactly. Yeah, I think Joe's a player, right, but it's not as good. So what I'm saying is, yeah, sometimes you have to go out there and it's just you know, can you resign Darren Thompson? You know, he was a serviceable backup at safety, can play special teams and and that's definitely what we're gonna need, a special

teams bodies. Yep. Yeah. A couple of guys in that that realm and you you kind of brickers, yeah yeah, under a kicker. The both were throwing bath on the streets. Snappers didn't think. So he's a free agent, so you're gonna have to spend money to sign him to get him back, and who knows, well how they evaluate him, you know, they may think, because now you got a new special teams coach, what does he value and a kicker Chris Jones? Is he healthy? You know he's got

to come back from a back injury from a sports hernia. Uh, neither one of him. He didn't have surgery. So now okay, well is he all right? Is that what you know Fossil wants? Or does he want a different type of punter? Does he like the deep snapper or do you have to go out and get a different deep snapper? You know, that whole operation could look different when you think about the kicker last year for the Rams, Greg's Airline. He's a free agent as well, one of the better kickers

in the league. Yea, but he didn't have a good year. He didn't have a good year. Nick doesn't like anybody is of the opinion if you're out there, there's a reason why you're out there, and it's a certain degree that's true. But Ruscott's not going to be out there right, No, you're gonna make it sure. Yeah, And so you know for for Zerline, I was told he just didn't have a very good year. And remember Fossil had him right, yeah exactly, But how many kickers around the league did

have good years. That was the reason why they couldn't find a guy, And that's why they hung on to Maher as long as they did well, because you know now they didn't do it quick enough. They should have. They should have they found they found a guy that made every kick between forty and forty nine yards. To me, that's what we need. I'd bring him back on the competition. Okay, great that I had a sixty three yard but the guy couldn't. He only made one of nine kicks between

forty and forty nine. When you also got to think about the timing of when they tried to go out and get a kicker. There nobody on the market except for Kai four bath, and they brought in Kai four bath. It was that or Nick Rose, the former Highland Park product, and there was really nobody to go with there. Well, that's one of the reasons why they hung on to Brett Maher. It's a completely different list of kickers available. The guy with the running gaids ain't bad. He knew

his name. He makes his kicks. I think it's mcguinnis. You've been doing some scouting over there. I went to the game Sunday. Yeah, yeah, Douglas and I went to the game fifty yard line, eighteen rows up. Were you on the far side where it's like basically left field when the Rangers played there? Are you on the other side, stands side, but they have far side, They've got portable bleachers, so you're right there on the sideline. It was good, interesting,

except for the quarterback had a couple issues there. Couple yeah, multiple three interceptions in the first quarter and then a fumble that was recovered for a touchdown. So we're not looking at Landry Jones as the backup quarterback this year. You know, I wanted to be happening. I wanted to be the ultimate fan. In the fourth quarter when he was still struggling and he wouldn't throw the ball down the field, I told Douglas we should start channing. We

want Phillips. Wow, I mean that's what a fan would do, right. You didn't bring in the backup? Yeah? Oh man talking renegades here on Tuesday after Hey, you know what, they had eighteen thousand, three hundred and thirty two, So without Douglas it would have been three hundred and thirty it is, so we made it thirty two. Good for you contributing. We even stood up when the ball got down to the two yard line with a minute to go and

they were down seven. Then they picked it off. It was a and here I could be I could be the come on, why didn't you hand the ball off? You were two yards away and you had two timeout. Oh that's a that's a big sign that I need to move on to. Tried to throw a smokescreen and it goes off the guy's hands and the linebacker makes a diving interception two inches off the ground. It was a magnificent play, but it was heartbreaking for Renegades fans out there. But that's it for talking XFL in terms

of talking Cowboys today. But there are some other guys that are not in the NFL yet that made some noises past week because there was an NFL combine and there were some drills that were run. We'll talk about the NFL combines, dive into who the Cowboys could look at at seventeen and maybe fill some of these holes when we come back here on talking Cowboys. Since eighteen sixty five, stetson hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas. And Stetson is proud to be on

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good to be true comes to mind. Get there. It is a rich, delicious doctor Pepper paradise. Wait? Did did that can of doctor Pepper just open itself for you? They all are as if to say, so nice to treat you? And even though it feels weird to talk to we, can you pick one up and say, it's so nice to be treated doctor Pepper, So nice to treat you? Back to talking cowboys? Are I supposed to do a read here? You're always supposed to do a reader? Well?

Thank you? Guess what? How long you've been doing this for? Black Reserve is here to stay? What these former limited additions are now permanent additions to the Jack Black lineup? Thank goodness? Okay, And what they're talking about is Black Reserve body and hair cleanser. M it's permanently yours dual purpose sulfate free body and hair cleanser featuring the masculine sense of cardomen and red cedar Black Reserve Black Reserve

that's also like to black Reserve body spray. It's distinctive masculine body spray featuring the deep worn sense of cardomen and red cedar wood. As a body spray after a shower, or to use as your signature fragrance night and day, go to Jack Black dot com. Oh, sarwood cedarwood's been warm and understand black reserve means it comes in a black bottle. Okay, you have my attention to black Reserve. This is gonna be about Come on, Oh that might have been an all timer. That was good, well done,

make you it wasn't like a bench person. Okay. Oh gosh. Well, moving on from that we go. I don't even know how to follow it. I don't either. You're in charge of gracious. Okay. Let's go back to the NFL Combine, and this time talk about non cowboys who were in the spotlight. Of course, drills running Thursday through Sunday. Things started off with the wide receivers quarterbacks and tight ends on that Thursday and worked their way through the position

groups as the weekend went along. But that Thursday was an opportunity to look at a couple of guys who had had the spotlight on them throughout the course of the draft process. Of course, you can listen to the draft show on Thursdays here, but I don't want to get too far into specifics of these players. But positional wise, the Cowboys have those needs on defense that we talked about in the last segment. They have plenty of ways they could go, whether it's secondary defensive line. But man,

this wide receiver class is highly intriguing. Can the Cowboys justify taking a first round pick and using it on a wide out if he's better than anything else left there? You think, best player available? No matter what you think, that's gonna happen for the first time? And how long? Here? Oh? The best player available discussion? The VPA to me, BPA is always got an asterisk next to it. It has

to You can't just operate solely on that. That being said, the value, if the value is there, the value is there. I saw Daniel Jeremiah's post combine mock and I think he mocked Judy. He did from Alabama to the Cowboys seventeen, and his reasoning was, assuming Amari Cooper's gone. Now, I don't think you can assume that at all. They're gonna try to deal done with him. But if that were to happen, then yeah, I would. I'm all of a sudden, now my eyes shift a wide receiver and I'm on

board with it. Okay, So it would have to be a generationally changing wide receiver. He'd have to be Megatron. You know, he's gonna he's gonna transcend the game. That's the only way I see the Cowboys doing that. I know, best player available is the Mantra. But still, I mean, you have we've talked about the needs that you have on defense, and there are enough guys standing there looking you in the face. And look, look, I watched the

draft with no preconceived notions. He's just looking for the best guys and saying, you know what, guys are going to be off the charts guys. That got me my attention. Denzel Mims from Baylor. I thought his numbers were amazing. What he four three forty bench press, vertical broad jump, all of those were great, but you know you Isaiah Simmons. That was another guy, the kid from Clemson. Oh my god, this world athlete ye six six four two thirty eight amazing.

He'll be gone by number five, yeah, if not earlier. That's the thing with him is the way that he performed in the combine. They just locked up the fact that he's not going to be eating anywhere close to seventeen. And Denzel Mims is a guy you could get laid. So if we go back to last year and Rob knows this and they got t heard of me hearing it, guy lasting to the second round, Deebo Samuel, It's like, well, we don't need Deebo Samuel. Well, yeah, you do in

the second round, and he proved it. I thought about you watching him in the playoffs every time I saw make a players mixed guy six my man debo. I watched him whip Missouri three years in a row. I didn't need to see anything else. Just turn the combine. I don't care about the Pro Day. This guy could play football and he would do something for you, even if it was just returning kicks. And it was Ceedee Lamb that was mocked to the Cowboys in DJ's bladist

man and his stock has gone up Ceedee Lamb. I mean not that he came in, you know, undervalued or people didn't think that he would be a baller, but still I mean Ceedee Lamb to me is you know all of these guys that were talking about top fifteen, they all have the tape to match it, right, This is not just an anomaly. They show it up that the numbers and now all of a sudden, you know these guys are Tony Mandridge of the draft. It's not like that. But even when I look at Ceedee Lamb,

I don't believe that he went. You know, the guys that he faced in the Big twelve were not potential Thorpe Award winners. And so I mean not to take that anything away from him, but when I look at guys like Judy and even rugs Us, just the competition level, there is something that I'm more adamant about by looking at it and saying, look this guy, he competed at the highest level. Mickey, do you have a guy in the Shoe's draft yet, Ceedee Lamb. You think it is

CD Lamb there it is just throw stuff. I think the guy can play. He can't play. I don't think you can play. I don't care who covers him. They can't catch him. And he can catch everything in different positions. And he can play inside, he can play outside, he can be physical, he can be Deebo. Samuel Kyler Murray certainly wants him. Of course he does. Yeah, right, he needs them. Yeah, well he needs those yeah absolutely, yeah,

of course. I mean but even if you get so so Mick not My point was going to be, Okay, I'm at seventeen and the next two best players are Cede Lamb or some safety. Yes, you're taking the CD Lamb. How much is he playing as a rookie? How much is the safety going to affect the game? He might start because gees it's a different defense now he might start. It might be a different he's going to change the defense. But you got a Mari, you have Gallop. I think I have a ma Let's just say you have a

mar okay, and I got Gallup? And did I get cop you get cop to Wow, you didn't. Well you know what I'm saying. If you got both those said, he wants competitions, Okay, okay, okay, So that's my point if they're all back, you can't do it. You can't. I can't think you can do it a value pick. And maybe my opinion is is Jay did buy the number of unrestricted free agents I see on defense right now. That'll change, They'll get some of these guys back. I

get that they'll add some guys before the draft. But if I'm thinking about what hurt this team the most, the most inconsistent portion of the team last year, it was the defensive side of the ball. I understand they need playmakers. I understand, so you better try to find one as early as you can. And am I going to find a defensive tackle or defensive end? Ye at seventeen? You could lack either way. Yeah, I mean we're just talking about it. Is there's epiness. Is there a guy

that can play the five? A guy that could be and we think that right? But what if they're not? It's true, that's the post as possible. I mean, that's kind of what it is. It's a big mystery box, and it's like, okay, do you want the mystery boxer? Do you want what you had previously? The mystery box could turn into be something extremely special, whereas if it's not,

then you're kind of stuck in a hole there. Well that's why am I looked at something dream special ceedee lamb oh lamb And so you put him in the slot. There is that where you're for a guy like that, you would Okay, I'll tell you what. I was watching

the draft and watching these wide receivers run. Everyone is four three four four head burners, and you know, Michael, I mean, you know this guy's I mean they're blazing, and Michael Irvin just kind of kind of positive, you know, just brings up He's like, you know what, there are a bunch of guys with gold jackets that ran a four three four four. You know I didn't hear that. Yeah, yeah he said it. Yeah, And I mean he brings

up a good point. I mean that's leaving out bullet Bob Hayes and also Randy Moss who ran sub uh and they weren't even clocking when bullet Bob was was was in the league. But you just got to know that he ran a four two easily. Well all I know is he ran a ten whatever he want. So yeah, so either way, I mean, so all of those things and as excited as as we are getting about the

wide receivers. There's a lot of it goes into can a guy fit a system and he's gonna is he gonna be a guy that's not a one trick pony because of his speed. But also at the wide receiver, anyone that we get in those third and fourth rounds, even these guys that have to they're gonna have to play special teams as well, and with all the deficiencies that you have. If I don't see Ceedee Lamb playing

special teams. Now, if we lose some of those top, you know, top tier guys, then yeah, maybe that'll make sense. But as deep as this wide receiver classes, you can get more for less, and even with that, you could trade back if somebody wants that, you know, and the Cowboys at proven in their history, says that they're willing to do that, especially if they don't want to, you know, reach on a guy. Well, and with wide receiver being a topic of conversation, it also leads us to look

at tight end as well. If Jason Witten's not returning as Blake Jarwin and uh, I'm blanking on Sholts, but those two guys are those gonna beat your tight ends moving forward, or do you want to look at some guys that were impressive and athletic. I mean, hey, Missouri's Golberto oham Is I guess how you say his name, que Bonham or whatever. Alberto Alberto went up and went four four nine in the forty, which is really impression.

Some of the better tight ends you talk about some of the lack of success for wide receivers running good forties. Travis Kelsey had a four to five and I think George Kittle had right under a four to six in terms of his forties as well. So there's some fast tight ends out there, And is that somebody something that the Cowboys should look for moving forward? Well, they need

another tight end. Yeah, I believe they would have drafted one high if Witten hadn't come back last year, I think, and from what I was told last high pretty early in the draft, I mean, I think they would have They probably would have need to day, yeah, potentially if it were there, value was there, But having Witten back last year allowed them to kick the can down the road a little bit, get a better look at Jarwin, and they do love Jarwin and he's going to be

part of their plans going forward. I think that's a position maybe where you can cover yourself in free agency too. Maybe you go, if Witten's back, you go try to find another veteran to help you out. He run, Yeah, a guy, let's play. He brought that up a couple of weeks ago, that one. But you got to open up some more snaps. Why didn't you show me not to bring up Noah Brown I've been We'll talk about

that later. But Chase Claypool from Notre Dame. Yeah, I mean he's listened as a wide receiver, but he could fit in a tight end. And he's a guy that really reminds me of Jamichael Finley, a guy that played for Green Bay went round. I mean, he's probably a third round, fourth rown guy. Maybe there. You're okay with that. We need somebody that can block. Also, by the way you do, he's physical, growin can do what those guys do. Now, do you have somebody that can do Darwin can block?

I don't know that you look at him as a full time blocker, Okay, but but I don't think he can't feel Oh gosh, does run those Witten routes. That's what he wants don't. You don't you daydreaming in the shower about this up. I love Dez? Yeah, you want, though, I don't. I'd be surprised. I'd have to see them make that decision to bring him back. I don't. I don't. He's not a tight end. He's not a block tight end. That's not That's never been his role. I don't see

that role changing now. Um. Yeah, And Dez's numbers his last year here in Dallas was familiar with what Randall Cobb did last year, and so those numbers are equal. So I don't. I think you already have that on your roster, so you don't have to reach on something like that. And again, if Dez is on the roster, he has to play special teams as well. That's not gonna happen because we have so many holes to feel. Yeah, that's one of the big questions that Jerry has asked

this year throughout the draft processes. Hey, does he played special teams? That's what I think one of the big priorities for the scouting and coaching staff is looking at a guy if they're going to pick him, if he's an offensive player, does he does he return kicks? Is he good at that, has he done it before and has he been successful? But talking about Dez Bryant, I mean, you mentioned it and you alluded to it a minute ago.

The comment that Jerry made in Indianapolis was I've been thinking about it a lot, but he hasn't also talked to Des Bryant. Do you hold any kind of candle to that, saying maybe that's a little bit of a just a toss throwing potatoes at the wall, trying to get it the stick Dez Bryan Bryan Jerry's comment about it, but a little bit of both was was Jerry just blowing smoke to the media saying we're looking and interested at maybe bringing back Des Brian or something that's legitimate.

I don't think he said it that way, though he said he'd been thinking about it. He said he'd been thinking about it in the shower. He did say that, not at his Jack Black dot com, not at his desk, right, correct, big difference, which was my point when I said earlier, don't we all daydream in the shower? Oh if des could come back and be the Dez Bryant, Oh yeah, that would be great. I don't think he's thinking that and I think that's disrespect to Daz in the job

that he's done while you know, being a cowboy. I mean, look, no one loves Daz more than me. It's first four years. I mean, Daz is probably is as explosive as a receiver we've seen in the NFL, just making a splash, tremendous career. Yeah, and so it just didn't end well.

And then and even talking to Mike McCarthy or no, when when Jay was saying about how contentiously how it ended, you know, and how Daz was, you know, not happy with the leadership here going out that, you know and really giving him a clean slate and saying, hey, I forgive him for that. You know. I think it was just more of a play to the media about Daz because there's so many other holes that need to be filled,

and there's so many wide receivers in this draft. Would be a different thing if that, if this was a talentless draft pool. Yeah, and you look at the positions of need when it comes to tight end wide receiver, they're kind of on that backburn or at least from the outside looking in at this very moment, defense is the priority. But what about backup quarterback too. I mean there were some quarterbacks that went out and threw the

ball pretty well out in Indie. Is Cooper rushed this guy moving forward to be the backup quarterback of the Cowboy. You know, a guy. If I can get a guy in the fifth, sixth, seventh round, I got no problems bringing him in. I think you bring Rush back. I think they will, But yeah, they could bring in some competition.

He restricted. Yeah, they'll just get all tender him and tender that's the original draft choice, which is nothing yep, which means it's the lowest restricted tender, and if somebody else signs him to an offer sheet, you don't get anything back. But yeah, I think they want him back. They've they've they've spent time developing him. So but you can bring in a third quarterback. The only other guy is Clayton Thorson, who's out there working out by the

way to day. Yeah, he was out there on the field. But you talk about them developing a guy, this is completely different coaching staff. Is Mike McCarthy going to feel the same way, Well, if they offer him a restricted a tender, they must, Yeah, right, it's a good way to to take up a cheap roster roster spot kind of what you're saying, take him to camp season and

let him compete with whoever else they bring in. Because even if you drafted, well, I mean, how high do you want to draft a quarterback, they would have to be late, like you said, day three And so yeah, is that guy gonna be so good that you're gonna say if Dak Prescott goes down in the first game, he's my guy? Probably not. It's why Cooper rushing here and that guy would be Are you confident saying that

about Cooper rush? Though? Well, unless there's a veteran out there that I want to go get, And I'd be interesting to see if maybe they McCarthy would prefer that because they've gone the younger route. They tried Castle, and they tried Weedon and they tried those guys and none of that worked. None that worked, and so they've been trying the developmental route. So maybe that changes. Maybe Mike's

more comfortable with a veteran guy too. See, there's gonna be a lot of quarterback movement here in the next couple of weeks of it, and there might be somebody without a chair to sit when the music stops. Yeah, And that's the thing about Dak Dak being so durable and not missing the game so far, he's given, you know, giving us that luxury to say, you know when not as concerned about the backup quarterback and say some other franchises. But at some point you get stuck with your hand

in the cookie jar. And so with developing this guy, you can't just give up on something that you've been spending a whole heck of a lot of time trying to develop. And so the only time we've ever gotten a chance to see him play was in the preseason, right, and so we don't know a whole lot about him. But at this point we just we gotta believe that he knows a playbook and he's at least serviceable at this point if he needs to come in for some

nine one one time. Yeah, you never know, one of those veterans could be sitting there and they go, Okay, I'll take a one year deal just to kind of keep my name in the game. Somebody's gonna not have a job. Yeah, But it's gonna depend on price, because when you're paying Dak, whatever you're gonna pay him, it's gonna be a lot. You can't there's certain luxury depth positions. You can't spend the same type of money that you normally spend. Well, if he's still sitting there April first,

in coun have cost you nothing, that's fair. I mean, with the guy's gonna look up and go, oh, I don't have a job, and now the draft's happening. Oh, sign me, please, somebody, somebody picked me. I mean, we've got nine days until the deadline for the tags March eighteenth, to start in the new league year April sixth. New coaches can have their offseason workouts in the April twenty third is the start of the draft. So plenty going on over the next couple of weeks throughout the off season.

But that's gonna do it today. Here for Talking Cowboys. Here from the ASWBC Mortgage studio for Rob Phillips, Heck Maharrison, for Mickey Spagnola. I'm Kyle Yomans. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next week. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.