Talkin' Cowboys: Concerned About Depth?

that in a while. And now and then we're sitting there thinking, Okay, now we got OTA's about to get into that rhythm. So that's what's different. That's what's football is back. It's football is back. How are you doing, Mickey? It was back last week. I mean Vet's back. Rookie minicamp. Right, Yeah, that's what you call that. Meetings on the field. That was cool, ye, meetings. You're right. There are owners meetings going on this week in Atlanta as well as the OTAs.

Starting today here for the guys, the full first team activity for them to all get underway, and we'll have media availability tomorrow, right, But this is the first thing going on this week which I wanted to get into some things that will help understand what this team will look like in twenty eighteen. You know, there's a lot of change. A lot happened this offseason, of course, different releases, retirements,

the rookie class. So I wanted to pose a few questions to you guys and see what you think will be answered during the OTAs. And Mickey, doing his due diligence, was just kind of, you know, using our surroundings here at the Star and checking out what's going on. And I think you ractually got to my first question before you realized it when you walked in here, he said, I was looking to see who would replace Dez, kind

of being around the different locker room and different things. Yeah, so, Mickey, the question I have for you is who do you think during this OTAs in the locker room might be that stepping up, you know, void, filling for the leadership and passion presence that of course Jason Witton and Dez Bryant. I have no clue they got helmets on out there by the way. Yeah, I was looking to see who was going to be the last one out of the

locker room. Yeah, because Dez was usually the last guy out of the locker room, so he can make his entrance sort of the way Michael Irvin used to do back in the day. Yea. And they were still trickling out when it was time to get going here. So I was kind of looking for eighty three. Yeah, it's seeing if he's around. Well, he's been rehabbing, so we may not see a lot of him. Well, he wasn't going to take part in there in the drills, but I thought maybe he'd be out there unless he's trying

to paint that light pole that he supposedly hit. Let me ask you this though, in question though eighty three leader for you? Then, my god, no, because he doesn't have the personality to do it. Yeah, and he's not in the locker room that much anyway, so you got to go search and find him in the first place. Sure, somebody's it's not going to happen until they start playing games, so they start getting into training camp. I mean, who who's gonna as a wide receiver, who's gonna step up

and talk other than I'd Beasley was always there right? Sure? All right? Hearns got to earn his way, right, Thompson got to earn his way, Gallop got to earn his way. I know Tavon Austin was here immediately after the draft weekend. He was here that Monday, and I'd be curious to see how his personality is going to mesh with this group. You know, he looks, at least from the social media aspect of what he's posted and put out there, looks like he's got a you know, vibrant personality. He has fun,

he dances and videos. I don't know if you guys have seen those, but you know, I'm curious to see if he'll kind of mesh with them. And now I will because Alan Hearns, We've gotten a chance to talk with him and he's more laid back. Yeah, kind of

seeing how that will fit. Yeah, I think that, you know, to I don't know if the if the if the leadership is going to come from if to answer your question in a big, big view, yeah, I don't think the leadership is going to come from a wide receiver, you know, and in naturally you'd say it's the quarterback. But then this offensive line has such a influence on what happens. I correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm starting to hear more from Tyron Smith than I did

in the past. I'm starting to hear more of a voice, and maybe within his own group that that voice has always been there, but we're starting to see and not Tyrn Smith is like, hey, you know, I mean, I don't really like to do but but I think that you're starting to kind of get an idea that maybe that Tyren Smith is now going to be this guy him and Dak and you know Zeke if you say, well,

but I think it's gonna come. The real leadership from from this team is going to come from a guy like a Tyrant Smith or a of course Sean Lee, that type of a person. There was a story a couple of years ago where Tyron Smith got in front of everybody in the meeting room and said, if you guys aren't all in, yeah, just get out right now. And it was kind of surprising to hear because, like you said, his personality's more reserved. I think he's one of those guys that will speak if if needed to.

And I think that's important without Witten here, because I think Witten had the same type of presence. I don't think he was Michael Irvin like Mickey's reference, where he's, you know, the pied piper and always talking, always talking, but when something needs to be said. Hey, I think it depends on what type of leadership. You know, different things. Yeah, the offensive the offensive line leads by example. I mean they are highly respected because of the way they go

about their business. To Bryant's point, let's not mistake doing interviews in the locker room and being available to being a leader. Yeah, we don't know everything that goes on. Joe Luny, I'll talk every day if you want to. But I think that we're starting to see more. I'm not taking it as leadership, as leadership, as media interviews. I'm just taking it as a guy that we don't always see step Travis Frederick steps up for the offensive lineman,

Zach Martin is stepped up. I know that. But I'm saying we don't don't confuse it with not confusing it at all. I'm saying a guy who's I'm just saying a guy that normally isn't an outspoken guy is you're starting to see more from him. That's That's and maybe that's something that that is going to translate for them. Uh, they're gonna need somebody. They're gonna need somebody in that room. And it doesn't have to be is is dynamic as Jason Witten, But there's gonna be somebody's needs going to

step up in that room. But if they got a lot of young guys in that room that are looking around and thinking, you know, okay, well who's who do who do I latch onto? Who's my guy? Who who's you know? Yeah, and they may find that the main point of this is that this is the first time that the rookies and veterans are really mixing together on the football field, interacting, learning things. You know. It's pretty funny. I was talking to someone who works in football operations.

That's what I said. Oh, these rookies are so excited to do so much and he goes, yeah, they haven't been around the vets yet. He goes, just wait until they're around the Vets in a couple of days, and you'll see how things change pretty quickly. Oh, Connor Williams gets used to working with that group of offensive linemen

exactly because you're coming from a different system. College is so much different than the professional level, and understanding that once you get around these guys, you might just tailor your personality a little bit differently. Well, I think they did a good thing of having those rookies out there watching the strength and conditioning workouts over the last since they've been here absolutely two weeks. Yep. They didn't do anything. They watched and then they came out later in the

afternoon and did their strength and conditioning work. But they had them all out there standing and watching what was going on, so they understood, Okay, this is the way we practice, this is the drills we do. And I think that helps kind of get them moved into it because they're gonna be there. Those are young guys. Some of them gonna be starstruck when they sit there and they line up. Yeah, but let's be honest here though, there's a lot of veterans that are the same boat.

We got a whole new group of coaches out there too. Right, These drills and the way things are going to be taught are different. I mean, those those veteran guys are thinking, okay, sang laws drills. I've never run around a poll here and had to sink my hips and Derek Dooley did it this way. I mean there's drills that they're having to learn. I mean there's actually some excuse me, Roun, there's some there's even footing in a lot of it.

The experience is great, but the experience with these coaches is pretty equal for all these guys. I want to watch Chris Roshard with the young secondary guys more than anything. Yeah, yes, absolutely, that's another thing that we definitely need to talk about. But I think, you know, Mickey brought up the rookies getting starstruck, but some of these rookies also have the ability. You know, we brought up Terrence Williams maybe not practicing

and participating with the foot rehab. They have an opportunity here in these OTAs to at least show flashes. Cam Kelly has been a name of undrafted rookie that people keep throwing around that he has an opportunity during these OTAs to prove his, you know, spot on this team. They're gonna have somebody make this team. It's an undrafted rookie, Tay, and you're absolutely right about they always do. Yeah, there, it might be two, it might be three guys. That's

the great thing about. They do a great job with their undrafted class. But you're mentioned cam Kelly. Yes, there's guys that now have a fresh start. There's some guys that maybe the previous coaching staff and the kid White. I always bring him up the corner that they drafted Ques White from Florida State. In the old system, he might not been as valued as he is now because of the way he physically looks. He has the talent on the practice squad basically the whole year. He now

has a fresh start. With the way this current coaching staff is, you have to see a guy like Jordan Lewis, maybe Christopher Shard's opinion of Byron Jones's yeah, I saw a corner all the way here, I saw a corner, and now all of a sudden, it's like, okay, well, yeah, let's move in the corner. Well what do you think about, well,

Jordan Lewis is a little short for me. Well, now Jordan Lewis, after having a pretty good rookie season, needs to say, okay, well, maybe I've got to prove to Christoph Shard that I can play a little bit here. Christ Shard is definitely on there, and we're getting a little excited about it because he is an exciting name

to talk about. But out of the guys that you've seen so far, and we've had the privilege of seeing some rookie minicamp, who do you think is going to have the best chance to show those flashes to possibly

have an opportunity to even possibly start this season? I think I think Gallup has an opportunity right off the bat, Michael Michael Gallup third round picked to get some extra reps because I don't don't think we're gonna see Terrence Williams in the office, not going to see him till training think so, so you know, hey, Ryan Switzer not here anymore, had an opportunity in the off season, get some extra reps, get kind of ahead of the game.

I think that's a chance for him. I think when everybody's healthy, I would I would predict Alan Hearns and Terrence Williams as you're starting receivers. But what happens midway through the season, you know, maybe Gallup has a chance to get a head start and can continue developing the point where maybe he's a starter by mid season. Yeah. The key thing with all these new coaches is everybody's gonna be out there trying to impress their new balls, no doubt. So no one's gonna feel like they just

got grandfathered into their start. Now. Obviously, the guys on the offensive line, the three Pro Bowlers, they're pretty secure in their position. But just think back to when you were a kid and you got a new coach or you went to a new team, but you tried a little harder because you wanted to prove yourself and make sure they saw who you were. It's one of the reasons they tailed back the work in rookie minicamp because the guys weren't ready physically, and they didn't want him

go on two hundred percent to try to impress. Chris Rashard just kind of let them ease in. You know, the name that I'm I'm looking to see out there is Layton vander Esh. You're gonna get three starters out of this group fight forward before midway through the season. Absolutely vander Esh is gonna start. I'm gonna I'm gonna throw Dalton Schultz's name out there. I think Mickey and Mickey said they might open eleven personnel. That's okay, But when they get back into that when they get back

into normal personnel group. Dalton Schultz is gonna be your starter at tight end. I'm just gonna throw that out there right now. And then you've got Connor Williams. Conor Williams is gonna start at left guard and don't go to sleep on gallop. Yep, that's why. No, if you want to throw four, if you want to throw four in there, This team, after the Chargers game last year, proved that they're, you know what, just put the young guys out there, you know, and they were fighting for

a playoff spots. They probably hadn't much with choice, but it's still if you you know, it's kind of it's unusual for a coaching staff that might be and this is me, this is not anybody else's opinion. This is a coaching staff that might be coaching for their jobs. Okay, So usually you don't throw young guys in the mix.

Usually put veteran guys out there and say, okay, but you know, these are kids they selected, and they're gonna say, if these guys can help us get to where we need to be and it helps us maintain our job, then by all means, play those guys. But like Mickey said, you could you could have four guys. You could have four rookies start opening day for this football That was that was the plan last year until they all got

hamstring injuries. Yeah, you know, I mean, may the best woman win, And that was that was the plan in the secondary at least. I'm with you. I don't four is a lot, but hey, it's a young football team. There's not a lot of guys that have ten fifteen years in the league anymore. But think about where, think about where they're playing. Think about the positions they're playing. You know, if you look at the positions they're playing, would you feel better about a veteran player, I mean

Jeff Sway maybe, Yeah, I feel better about that. We feel better about Terence Williams playing. I think. I think it's what we talked about with Cheeto and those guys last year. Like the experience gives a Jeff Swain maybe an edge now, right, but by the time you get to the end of Sea might give him a full preseason. Think about I'm not waiting that long. Think about what hellam with Cooper Rush Last year he kind of moved in, moved in and all of a sudden Oh he's our

backup quarterback. It doesn't have to be right off the start if you can go back. You know, Russell Maryland was the number one pick in the draft, sure was. He didn't start until like game eight or nine. His rookie year was a town defensive line though they had well it was, but he still got in there eventually, eventual. You know, the same thing with Kevin Smith. He didn't

start right away. Sean Lee, Yeah, sore though. Now. I I think if you have a veteran that can hold down the fort until the guy's ready, it's gotta be ready. They can't give away games so much, but you can't. You gotta be ready. Yeah, but you could give away games by putting young guys in if they're not ready. Yeah. That that's that's fair. That's fair. And you know, coaches that this can want to make sure. No. No, And I I think, and again I've been very adamant about this.

This coach, it's it's all it's last chance, you know, let's figure it out. I mean, hey, you've got they drafted these kids. Put them in there, let them play, you know, if that's if that you would rather have your fate in your hands with guys that you select. Well, you said it. What you said to me about position is the most important thing. Lineback those two spots you get.

You need a guy who can play a lot of snaps just the way based on the way the off season's gone, losing guys, what you guys are all telling me is actually giving me a lot of optimism right now. And it's giving me optimism because of the fact that you're kind of in a recipe for everyone to do their best and they're up against the wall, and as

we've heard Brian say many times before, desperate football teams win. Yeah, and you know, Mickey brought up a great analogy of the fact that these guys are showing up to their first impression first as to show them everything they got. On the opposite side, the staff and the coaches are doing everything they can to keep their job. So they're both yeah, combining. You have to you have to shame on them if they weren't doing that before. No, I think,

and you got new coaches, I'm with you. Do you see my point, Brian, No, I do see your point. And I'm also they've also made a lot of changes of coaches because to your point, shame on them for not doing what they were supposed to do well. And I'm saying, and these guys are first year coaches, they're going to be coaching hard or regardless, right, Yeah, I mean, you know, with so many guys and with different positions. Yeah, yeah, they're they're they're going to be coaching, you know, real hard.

But Rod Marinelli eating coach hard. No, Now he coached hard. Let a hand coached hard. Now you got new guys and they're trying to make their way and prove what they know. But do you still have to give guys a chance to show what they can do? I guarantee you when they line up there, you think Connor Williams is gonna be with the first team left guard? No, probably not. He'll probably be He'll they'll go with a veteran guys his way exactly, but it'll be Chas Yeah.

I mean, they'll put Chash green. And you're right about that. This team better than it was at the end of last year. I don't know that we can say that a big question that we answered on round table two weeks ago. Yeah, I don't I don't know that you can say that I think leaderships to play with. Okay, so getting rid of Witton retireing, does Bryant gone, Yeah, losing Witten, I think that voice, in that presence in

the locker room, I think there's something to that. I think you still have to have receivers emerge for Dak. I do think what I've The thing that encourages me most, particularly offensively is the offensive line because I do think Connor it's gonna be your left guard. I think that guy playing sixteen games, you hope it's gonna help you out a little bit. Always say hope with him. Kind of hate that. Well, I'm thinking injury too, if he can have a healthy season. But yeah, there's guys that

have to emerge. Into Tay's point, I agree with what you said because competence receiver is the best example of that. They went out and they got Tavon Austin. You'd call them a receiver, running back whatever. They have a lot of guys at that position, even without Dez. They're trying to make it competitive as heck, and I think I think that's going to create some nice competition. Well awesome, I can't wait. And just from our first segment here, you guys know that we will have a lot to

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both of them. Feed them with a counts Yeah yeah, all right. We are back here and the guys are talking OTAs everything that is happening on the football field. They're back out there, one step closer to the twenty eighteen season. And while we've been in the offseason, we've been talking a lot about what this Dak friendly term really means. We've heard it thrown around different people trying to understand it. Well, we heard from Dak last Wednesday

at the Reliant Energy home run Derby. He was speaking to the fact that it's not really Dak friendly. He said, it's now boys friendly. Yeah, it's Cowboys friendly. So different different understandings, interpretations of the phrasing. I know, Rob, you've spoken to the owners at different meetings and different things like that about how they feel about it. What do you think? I I think it's it's we talked about in the break. I think it's a dumb term. I

really do. I think it's because it goes back. Jerry came up with it sort of, but he said it ten years ago about Romo, and when he said it, it made a lot of sense. And I think it's a general term because we're talking about two different quarterbacks now, So what does that mean? It means that it's you put your quarterback in the best situation possible. Every team tries to do that, So I thought Scott Lenahan talking to him about a week ago, he's about the nicest

guy you'll meet. But he was pretty sarcastic about it too. He said, that's a fun Now we got a sarcastic team. That's a that's a fun narrative term, and it is. I mean, you want to build an offensive line around your quarterback, good solid, dependable receivers, solid running game. Every team's trying to do that. But and obviously they have a lot invested in dec He's their guy, so clearly

that's what they're trying to do. But don't you think that it's a fair thing that they've said and talked about, because you look around the league, and I've heard you guys even mention it. There are certain teams that when they do kind of put everything around their franchise quarterback, things seem to fall in place. Like going thirteen and three and twenty sixteen, Yeah, you had a quarterback over his first twenty four games in the league that had

a one or two point three quarterback rating. So what wasn't friendly over the first twenty four games of his career. He wasn't a quarterback that got eased in. They threw him to the fire. They went thirteen three. I would have to say what wasn't friendly was something that we've all addressed in here is the offensive line. Well, but they still were averaging twenty eight points a game the first eight games last year. So now you tell me what changed. What changed in the last eight games the

offensive line? There was no backup for Tyrn Smith. There was no Bay. That's not Dak friendly, that's cowboy friendly. Yeah, there was no Zekiel Elliott for six games. There was no Sean Lee for those games. Those are the things that affected them. They went from averaging twenty eight points

a game to seventeen points. I think what it does is it takes it a little out of context, Like when Jerry created it about Romo, it's about to create the best environment for Romo, for the offense, for everybody, and now it kind of now we're attributing it to Dak and it's like it's all on Dak's shoulders, and it's not. It's it doesn't on the team, it's on the entire team. And put him in the environment have

success and everybody else. I mean, the running game wasn't the same without some of those guys that you mentioned as well. Yeah, the receivers too. I mean, it all kind of flows together. So it's an offensive thing really, So I'm in agreement with you, Mick each other. No. I mean, well, if the owner in general manage to come out and said a cowboy friendly thing, I think then we all would have agreed to that. That's what the whole idea when we when we were trying to

do the autopsy on the season. What were the various things we were talking about again, offensive line you talked about, I was talking about Cole Beasley, you know, not getting I mean there's there's things Seanly, everybody had an idea of what the problems were here, and they always stay, well, make it friendly for the quarterback. They will make it friendly for the team, make it friendly for everybody. That's that's really what this is all about. That's why they

drafted the guys they did. They drafted another guard high, they try even though they had Pro Bowl offensive lineman, they knew they needed a linebacker. I mean, all these things that they knew they needed, they went out and got And that's team friendly right there. Team friendly because that goes into the coaching staff as well. They knew they needed to make those changes in certain coaching areas and they did that as well. So that's a full team. Yeah,

well that that that's you. You're absolutely it feeds into this narrator of the oh sophomore slump for Dak, what can we do to make him better? Well, it's not just all about him. We saw that. It's it's you gotta have Zeke on the field for sixteen games. You got to have plays Tyrn Smith if needed. I mean, it's not just Dak. And that's that's the narrative that I think it kind of rubs people the wrong way, and that's not the way it was intended when it

was created. I don't know. Two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. Yeah, that's when Jerry said romo friendly. It applies everything. I think it's great though that Dak Prescott is not buying into that. Well, I mean, he's always going to be it's about the team with him. His success is always going to be about the team. But I think Mickey's right, I mean, I do, I mean, I don't think things have changed for him and what he's trying to do and how he's prepping for these

games and getting your ready. I think the players around him affect how he plays. But you could say that about anybody. Sure, you can say about any quarterback in the National Football League. It is it's about the team. How can I get better offensive lineman? How can I have a better running game? How could a better offensive play calling? These are all things that factor into the success of the quarterback. If you don't have one or two or three of these things, your quarterback is going

to get replaced every single year. Reality chuckle. A little bit of people will say, well, everything has to be perfect, and then you look at the Eagles, right, everything's pretty perfect for Nick Foles, And I mean taking over for a guy who is the starter and an all Pro type guy, you got to have the pieces around you're not. Does Dak need to get better, Absolutely, He's talked about it.

He needs to, you know, pretty much everything, accuracy, footwork, all that stuff that's part of being a third year quarterback. Who's what is he twenty four years old? And staying off his back. Yeah, your realiz. He was sacked thirty two times last year. Twenty two were in the last eight games, no question. That means ten in the first eight games. So what happened, Yeah, yeah, what happened was

what you just said they didn't have happened back up. Yeah, what happened is they took a second round pick and they went out and spent money in free agency on a couple of offensive linemen and still drafted a guy das which allowed those guys to be the backup now instead of to move Lale Collins. And they took the heat on the thing in Atlanta. Yeah, I did. We've talked a lot about Chris Rochard and we've talked about Sanjay Law. How do you guys think Paul Alexander will

be able to help this offensive line group? And well he specifically be able to help Chaz Green? Well, I hope. So that's all going to be about confidence with him. Yeah, you gotta see if he's I just can't believe it. Chaz Green is that bad? Yeah? And he's not, and he's not, you know, but that they did him no favors. They did him no favors playing him at guard, and we and the head coach has been very forthright about that. Hey, we shouldn't have played. We should have probably kept a tackle.

It was more important to this team to have a suitable backup left tackle than it was to have a starting left guard. He's got Willie Anderson, Paul Alexander, one of his former players, Willie Anderson coming in. Maybe working with these guys one on one. That guy's been a pro bowler in this league, maybe that can help. He's worked in a lot of different systems. He's worked with different guys, groom different guys for starting roles. He's got

experience to do it for chats. I just think it's confidence. You got to find a way to forget about it. Don't reinvent the wheel here. Yeah, don't reinvent the wheel. You've got three all pro linemen, you know, find a way to play to their strengths. Find a way to coach them the best you can. If you want to develop Connor Waves, let Connor Williams watch these guys play. Playing between Tyren Smith and Travis Frederick will be the

best education he can ever. Get back to Rob and Mickey's point about Chads Green's confidence, I think there is something to do that, and luckily we were able to kind of get an insider look that we normally wouldn't have seen with All or Nothing the Amazon show. You know, everyone was looking at that Week eight game against the

Atlanta Falcons and what went wrong. Now, the game plan was bad, Well, if you're looking at you know, they were able to film practice and something that really caught my attention was that they were building up Chatz throughout that week. They were building them up. You know, they kept saying, oh, you got this, Chads, break us down in the huddle, You've got this. And if you watch who he was going up against in practice, he was

mainly going up against Taco Charlton. Yeah, and you know, in all respect to Taco Charlton, he's a rookie who's still getting at We've talked about what his expectations were in the development there, but he almost had this false sense of confidence going into the Atlanta Falcons game because of the fact that they're like, oh, you've got this year taken over. I think that to me, maybe it wasn't going against Tacco. Maybe it's the fact that he

made two quality starts the year before and San Francisco confidence. No, I don't think it was false at all. I think he played well against the Chicago Bears and Cincinnati and our San Francisco. He made those starts. He wasn't terrible in those games. In the Atlanta game, it started going bad. We've talked about this. It started going bad and then it got worse because he just lost his technique. He lost It's like he forgot what he was doing out

there and it just snowball and got worse. Let me tell you what pressure from offensive line plays sometimes is also manufactured by what happens on the outside. If you're not running round and not getting open and not finding space out there, and the quarterbacks having to hold the football because he's not sure because every ball he's thrown that's gone inside on slant's been knocked up in the air and brought back on him at times. You know, I think those are the things that you start to

think about a little bit. So again, it's not all on Chad's Green, and I'm not trying to defend Chaz Green, but I have seen him play better than he played, There's no question about that. And the right defensive end doesn't have to worry about the running back going to the house on any play, No doubt they didn't care. Alfred Morris nice, but he's not going to threaten the

back end of the defense. Zeke's not there. So all they did is Clayborne said, Okay, I'm pitting my ears back and I'm going after the quarterback because he's the only guy that can beat me. Couldn't stop him on defense in the second half. Basically Chumley went out with an injury. I mean, what was the score at halftime? Yeah, yeah, see that to me there, you're still in the ball game right there. They just could not get a stop or two that they needed in order to help as Green.

It's amazing how we're still talking about that game because we need to be, because it's it's the game. The reason why Connor Williams is here. I don't dis said it. I don't disagree. It was almost traumatizing for this team. Yeah, I mean, Scott Lenahan said it all thinking about through us back and maybe and maybe the reason why the receiver's here because he's going to find a way to get open. He's gonna separate, he's gonna run his routes

and be able to find space. There's a lot of factors Hey, that might have been the job, and that might have been the thing that got the offensive line coach fired himself. I mean think we're talking Chaz Green. Well, the next guy that went in was no better, no Byron Bell, right, and they kept him the exactly he was on the fifty three the whole season, and then all of a sudden he's starting and he was just

as bad. Yeah, that's that a lot of changes happened in that one game, A lot of changes that you and you but is a stab. You gotta hope, Hey, but I hope they just don't just discard Chaz Green. I really I hope they don't. Again, Mickey's right, it's a confidence thing with him. Maybe Paul Alexander can help him a little bit there, or at least he'll teach Colombo those guys. He'll teach him how to get ketchup

out of a bottle. That's what I'm hearing about. Yes, Mickey's referencing to the fact that Paul Alexander wrote a book a while back and explained how he could spot offensive lineman's talents based on how they poured a ketchup bottle. Yeah, you know why. It's smarts take smarts to pour ketchup. I love it. That's what it is. You don't have to be a hey man to keep pounding. You have to figure out how to get the air out of the bottle, so the ketchup comes out. Technique. That's technique.

So you squeeze at the fifty seven. Huh fundamentals. I'm glad you brought up William because I don't know if you saw his tweet that was going around last week of him he filmed Tyren Smith out there. He said, I love watching this guy do sets. He's just snabsolute pro and I mean, you really don't see Tyrn doing that too frequently. But hopefully Willie gets these guys kind of out of their comfort zones. I'll tell you what

I was impressed. And we talk a little bit about Willie, and but I was in Paul Alexander was not here the weekend of the rookie camp and Mark Colombo was running the drills, and I liked what I saw from Mark Colombo. Mark Colombo is going to be one of those guys that will be an offensive line coach for someone. He might not be offensive line coach here, but he

will be. He will be an offensive line coach or somebody promise you that he's got He's got the he's got the capability of mental capabilities, he's got the experience. He's a good teacher, he's hands on. You could see the way he's working with the rookie guys that they were getting a little bit better with the drills from practice to practice because of what Mark Colombo was able to do. If you want some insight, I was told on Paul Alexander, go listen to his commencement speech. He

went back to small college. Yeah, and I forgot to do it, but I heard it was Courtland College, and uh, they said, you'll find out a lot about how impressive this guy is by just listening to his comment. M speed. Let's hope he doesn't try and reinvent the wheel here. I don't think you will. I don't think you will. But that's that's good knowledge and curiosity to see how these guys will do with that. The other one I'm looking at is for his new coaches is Ben Bloom,

who of course is stepping in for Eberflus. Matt Eberflus who moved to the Indianapolis Colts, but Ben Bloom taking on this linebacker coaching job, especially when he has the first round pick in his group. Right, he's got, he's got, and he's got. Also he's got a pick two in Covington as well, so he's got a couple. And yeah, exactly, he's got a young group there, with the exception of Sean Lee Jaylen Smith. I'm curious to see him work

with the guys. That's kind of somebody I'll be eyeing tomorrow. Yeah, and again, this is this is a team that that needed linebackers. And now now you've really here, you've drafted a couple, you've signed one too. They signed the from the Packers, Joe Thomas, Joe Thomas from the Packers. So they're trying to remake this group. You might here's a group that might have another young or maybe the fifth or six guy is another young guy that you know, just keep an eye on that. I don't think that

position is far from settled yet. I think there's gonna be some players that are gonna move around. I think they're gonna use the waiver wire. I think they potentially can make some trades. That's a position to me that that you cannot be bad at. We've seen what happens when you're bad at linebacker and get exposed at depth, because all it takes is one or two injuries, right, and saw it last year. And Ben Bloom is gonna have to be He's gonna have to He's gonna have

to teach these guys. He's gonna have to be. He's an attention to detail guy. That's one of the things when he first got here, that was one of the things that Rob Ryan always talked that he knew the defense better than anybody else. So he's always he's Since Rob has left, he's taken a reduced role almost. I always make joke of his He had like basically one foot in the parking lot, you know. I mean, he was probably looking for another opportunity somewhere else and just

so happened this one came about. So he's got a veteran leader in Sean Lee. He's got a lot of young kids. Though. That's a position that is not settled by any means. He's gonna have to grab that by the horns and run that group through and get the best three guys, four guys, five guys, whatever he has to do to help this defense. Because they can't be

bad at that position. Again, It'll be interesting to see if he carries over his enthusiasm he showed with the rookies now that the veterans are here, because he was about his vocal in attention to detail four practices. Then I'd seen them in four years, just constantly teaching. Yeah. And the other good thing about this deal now is you've got two defensive coordinators on this team, Chris Rochard

Rod Marinelli. So if Rochard's taking care of picking up the nickel passing game and the secondary, he's kind of overlapping with those linebackers. So you've got a guy that's going to keep an eye on maybe the young coach to make sure that everything's working well. Ye, yes, very true. All right, well, we are going to take our final break here on Talking Cowboys. When we come back, we

will have Rob's Twitter poll talking about depth concerns. So if you haven't voted the whole, if you haven't voted, make sure you do that during our break right now. Make Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't cut it, and your skincare should be no different. A long time locker room favorite of the players and

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Why not? Because we know that Papa John's taste so great because of the ingredients like those veggies freshold never frozen, and the pepperoni, pork and beef in with the ingredients like that, you have better pizza and it's gotta be Papa John. Thank you, Mickey. Yes, we are back here for our final segment of Talking Cowboys today and without further ado, of course, Rub's twitter poll that we look forward to in our lack segment every week. What's Today's

got time to vote? Real quick? Is the voting close? It's yeah, it's close. Well, my dunn't vote make a difference? No, okay, everybody? Could you never vote for anything that? Would you vote today in the primaries? No? I did not. Okay, you got till seven o'clock. Okay, where you're out of time? Nice drop, Doug, appreciate that. All right. You said last segment you ask me, are the Cowboys better? Yeah, it's it's remained to be seen for me, you think so.

Oh yeah, But there are some questions on this roster. So my question today which position concerns you depthwise that they still have questions about? And I got four options for your defensive tackle Malie Collins out right now, wide receiver No Terence Williams at this time, recovering safety. Boy. We've talked about that position a lot or tight end without the goat. That's interesting. Which way do you go, Mick wide receiver? Why? Because I'm not sure who the

starters are, let alone what the depth is. So if I ain't got a lead guy, I'm worried about who's behind them? Can I ask a question real quick? Yeah, they keep talking about that they don't have they don't need a lead guy. Yeah, you sound like you're not too happy with that. It's like when someone tells me they've got two starting quarterbacks. They have no starting quarter right, so you're saying they have somebody's got to be a threat. Okay, somebody's got to be a threat. So you're not buying

the I don't need a number one receiver bit? Uh? No, is the Tom Brady analogy a bad one because it's Tom Brady, Like it's Tom tom Brady has had a great receiver like once in his career, like a great great receiver h Randy Moss. Yeah, and other than that, he's had a lot of really good to average receivers. How much better Tom Brady quarterback? And usually New England's defense too, by the way, it's been pretty good. Yeah, I think I'm I'm about that's my vote. I voted

defensive tackle. Okay, I don't think they have that position settled at all. I really don't, and I don't think behind it. If you can, you can, you can tell me all you want about Brian Price and Jihad Ward and all those guys. Until I see it, I'm I'm not gonna go there. Jihad Ward better be a player. He'd better be a player for them. If he's not, then that this team is. And Will McClay and Marinella obviously have a vision for the player, but that day

do not that with with Malik Collins out. I thought that's why going after, going after McClain was going to be a big thing. You get him back in now you can kind of settle some things down. But I don't think they've settled that thing down at all. Feeling he didn't want to be here McClain, I don't think if he wanted to be here, he wouldn't have like spin around all day like he's waiting they you know, it didn't sound like it was money. Hey what yet, one I got one? I got one. I went with safety,

all right. I felt like that was obvious. But I do think that it's manageable, and I'm gonna pull a Mickey Specnola here and I have a ride in one because I really read the question and to me, when you said which roster positions depth concerns you, I think at this point this is a ninety man roster we're working with and that will be the case until September ninth.

They opened at Carolina, right. But when I was reading this, the guy that kind of concerns me that you know, hopefully in the off season he's had a chance to recuperate and get back to the guy we know and love, and that's Dan Bailey. The kicker position depth currently does concern me because of the fact that what we saw at the end of last season was not the Dan Bailey, the Pro Bowl Dan Bailey that I felt like we

had seen in years before. Of course, he's been dealing with the ailing back, but I wonder in the off season, you know, we talk about these guys getting extra reps, getting things doing. Dan Bailey is notorious for being here at the Star, for recovering, rehabbing. But the one thing that does kind of concern me is that his loved coach, Rich Spasaccia is now out at Oakland coaching for the Raiders. I know he loves Keith O'Quinn, the guy who is

now the special team's coordinator. But Dan Bailey, will he be able to come back from last year's injuries? Have the confidence because you talk about confidence and players, there's no one player on that team that needs more confidence than Dan Bailey. Yeah, that's that's a good one. I like right. I talked to him a couple of weeks ago at an event, and he said, getting healthy, getting back in a rhythm, feeling good. So but once we

get out there, we'll have to see. I think it just I think it kind of snowballed on him a little bit too, you know, just being out of rhythm. I think he came back pretty much healthy, but is it's like a golf swing, that kicking deal, you know, and it can kind of go south mentally at times. I think that might have been something I had to do with them. That's a good write. Ind we all have the different votes. I like that. I don't always

get that. I got tied end. I said, when you got nine total catches among your tight end group all by Jeff Swim, there's a concern. Yeah, a little bit. And I think Dalton Schultz is gonna be a good player. I think Jeff Swim is an underrated guy. But you gotta have somebody step up there. Who won safety fifty one percent? I'm with the people. Everybody else was around fifteen percent. And there's there's by the way, there's one

position with no depth whatsoever. What's that quarterback? Well, it's you know, depending depending Yeah, yeah, but there's no depth. You know what I'm not. I'm not as down I'm You're not saying you're down. No, I'm not saying I'm down, But I'm saying if you're like White, and I might, you might you like Mike White, But is he ready to go in at the drop of a hat with no practice all week? You know you're about I didn't say veteran. I just said somebody proven. You asked depth,

there's no depth. Two years ago, you wouldn't have said the same thing about Dak Prescott, wouldn't you know. Yeah, he surprised me. Yeah, yeah, a better player. Okay, I value Dak didn't have to be the backup. Yeah, he got to practice right all week, all the rest of the office. He surprised me All the preseasons. How much work do you think Mike White's gonna get. Oh, if they're smart, they throw them out there quite a bit. It You said proven Mickey, and I like that phrase.

Who is proven out there? That could be a possibility for the Cowboys? Is there anybody out there available to I don't Yeah, I don't think you want to waste money on a veteran, But I'm just saying you at the question was depth, and there's no depth. I think they've decided. We traded draft pick for Matt Castle, we invested in Mark Sanchez. Where did that get us? We

might as well j Now, Jerry's not expecting. I don't think every guy they invest in a young guy to be Dak Prescott, but you might as well invest in a young guy and hope that your your development can turn him into something as opposed to a guy who's probably on the downside of his career. I think they're done with that. How much does Kellen Moore help in this instance of the fact that he was literally on

the fifty three man roster last season. Now he's in the role as quarterback coach and he's having to kind of give those mental reps to these guys, because of course it's a lot different than the romo Wednesdays that those other vetter in quarterbacks you mentioned, we're able to

benefit from. It's a good name. We didn't even mention Kellen far As coaches, Kellen Moore being there to kind of help these guys, And I like what Mickey said, prove themselves, prove themselves worthy of being behind Dak Prescott.

I think where it helps. I think where Kellen Moore helps is he could be the buffer between the offensive coaches and the quarterbacks that if a guy, if Mike White has a problem, if Cooper Rush has a problem, even if Dak Prescott has a problem, he can go into those players can go into Kellen Moore and say, hey, listen, this is my issue, this is the problem having then

you have then you have Kellen Moore. And I've sat in these staff meetings before where you have the buffer coaches that come in and they kind of explain to everybody, hey, this guy has this issue. We start talking about cutting guys like translators, Yes, exactly exactly. Kellen Moore will be able to translate. It's easier for someone a quarterback or any position to walk into a coach and say, hey, listen,

this is my issue. Instead of going into Scott Lenahan's office or going into the head coach's office, it's easier for him just to walk into the position coach and say, hey, you know, I'm having a problem here and we need to think I like this as part of the game plan. I don't think this is going to work as part

of the game plan. So I think that's where Kellen Moore, to least his first year, he's going to be that buffer that helps the quarterbacks as a group if they're having issues and being able to be on the field to kind of as Scott and Jason those guys are coaching guys up. Then you'll see, you know, Kellen will have the game plan or as the practice sheet in his hand and he'll be walking them through Okay, hey,

look for this, look for this, look for this. I think that's where he's going to be the most helpful. That's a huge benefit. I think that's a great advantage he can add to this team. Yeah well yeah, so safety, huh I guess what one? Yes, big big see see. People are still dreaming about getting that guy from Seattle. That's their dream Earl Thomas. However, Yeah, they're still dreaming about that. They really are. They just you know, and we've talked about it. We talked about it on the

draft show leading up. We thought they were gonna trade for you know, for more. You know, they were trying to move up. No, they were moving up for Armstrong in the draft. So you know they're there. They obviously feel like that the guys they got, and I just think this is gonna be initially the OTA's and then into training camp, and if it doesn't work out the way they think it's gonna work out, then I think you could see them making a deal. I really do.

I don't think they're gonna go into those things. They're gonna let these young guys fail. They're gonna let for now, They're gonna let Xavier Woods fell. Mickey's talked about what's happened potentially what happened with Byron Jones. If the things don't work out for Byron Jones, you could bring him back to safety. I think that's kind of their little bit of they're as in their whole. If things don't work out, then okay, well we need Byron Jones to

move back to safety. May you have a little faith. I just its like, no, I'm just saying it's a possibility because you you're gonna not many corners. I don't think is wrong, and somebody's gonna get eliminated. But we've said, if you're going to move him out there, you're probably moving out him out to start, right right? I think so? But he's got to be good enough to start and they don't know that. What did he start four games at corner as a rookie and hadn't played Their sense

he's pay four games at safety. Now if they want him inside, that's a different story. Then somebody's got to start on the outside. My point on the safety thing is and I'm not minimizing the safety position, and I think if you have a good one, it really helps you a ton. But I don't think any team has ever finished the season and said, you know what, if I just had a better safety, I would have made the playoffs? Am I right? I think if you if

you use that as an excuse, not an excuse. Barry Church was a stabilizing presence for them a couple of years ago when they won thirteen games AFC Championship game. Last year, I understand when he came back from that broken arm. I think they gave up less big plays.

It's important. I think everybody felt very grateful for Jeff heath Is the safety when he rushed Derek Carr against that goal line and saved them in the Oakland Raiders at the end of December interceptions last year, the near Tomas he is the goat well, but Nicky you question though, I think though, if you look at what happened in the Chargers game, they were bad at corner, and they were bad in the back end with some of the

plays that were going down the field. I think that's when you make the determination that we've got to do something different. If it's different it's slot corner, if it's different at right corner, left corner, we gotta do something different at safety though too. I mean, I think that's where the determinations personally. If I think if Connor Williams wasn't on the board at fifty, they would have made the pick, they would have traded for Earl Thomas. I

do believe that with my heart. But they like they thought more of they thought more of Connor Williams than they did Earl Thomas. I'm just hoping that poor Byron Jones can figure it out this year, going into his fourth season. You know, I got a chance to talk to him in the off season and I said, oh, you know, everyone's talking about where you're gonna be playing again. He goes, I just wish I could go into an

off season and know where I'm playing. And it was funny because we're around some other people, and he goes, it's like, if you're a pilot and they keep telling you, Okay, you're the best pilot, go fly the plane, go fly the plane, but you're also a great personality. You could be a great flight attendant. Go to this. Well, eventually the plane's gonna crash because you don't figure out who's

the pilot and who's the flight attendant. Yeah, And so that's how he feels right now, is that he doesn't know how he is going to be best utilized if they've picked up his option, though, too. That's a pretty big commitment right there, to saying, Okay, we're gonna try

and figure it out whatever whatever. If you're the pilot of the stewardess, we're going to figure out which one you are by picking up his option, I wonder if there is some confidence that he can get from having a guy like Richard come in who has a track record, legion, a boom. I know what I'm looking for. I scouted you at Yukon coming out of the draft as a corner I know exactly how to use you. Maybe he's gonna trust in that and we'll see how it goes.

Minor standing is they're going to play the technique at the corner in man differently from inside hip to outside hip or outside hip to inside hip, which may be more conducive for him playing on the outside. Hey, he knew what he was the last two years. He was a safety, right, and they moved him into the slot right. So, and the problem to me was when he went into the slot because Orlando Scandrick didn't want to play, then

you got Cavon Frazier deep and single safety. Right that that can happen again, No, you know, it's got to either be Jeff Heath or Xavier Woods. But again they needed Xavier Woods to go into the slot. See, I don't know what Xavier Woods is with this organization. He's been bouncing around since he got here. You're right, I don't I don't quite know what his you know, well, he you know we've got You've got a couple of

guys that potentially could be slot corners. When you talk about Lewis Brown, Xavier Woods was your slot corner last five games of the season. Where does his role now? Is he gonna be a true free safety? I don't know if you play him down. I don't know if he's physical enough to play down in the box area. I think Heath plays down. Is Xavier Woods is at free safety? Yeah, and then Lewis and and Anthony Brown are your slot guys. But she talked. He talked to

people in the organization. They'll tell you though, they like Jeff Heath playing deep where he can break on ball, where he can run. That he doesn't get to use his quickness and his burst when he plays down. So somebody play him deep and let him run. That's that was their play. Well, if you look at how Rashard has played his defense in Seattle, yeah, they play a lot of single safety high. So if that's Jeff Heath, fine,

and that frees up the other guys. What does that do for Xavier Woods If you're putting him down in the box and he's not opening the other the other maybe they play more dying and he put him in. See that's where Marinelli we had this discussion. Marinilli doesn't want to play a bunch of dime. I mean he is, he said, he goes it give me an opportunity to

play more nickel is what he wants might be their strength. Yeah, yeah, I mean I was gonna say dime would be their strength making well, if you have enough corners that can also play the run. When we talk to him after practice, he felt like he was playing too much dime and it felt like it hurt him. He says, if I could play more nickel, I want to do that because that means that's that helps him in the running game

as well. So then is that a personnel issue? Yeah, you got to use what's best, what you've got to work with. Yeah, and you hope Sean Lee is on the field. Yeah, yes, Sean Lee can never leave that field. No, we've realized that very thoroughly. Well, maybe they've got a possibility now if Jalen Smithkin playing vander Esh is what he is, yeah, um, then maybe you have a possibility there. The best thing that Vanderesh can do in my opinion, guys is cover. That's the best. That's his best trait

that I saw on tape. Now can he develop this stuff the instincts and you know if he's you know, watching Sean Lee. You know the one thing Shan Lee doesn't get blocked because he knows okay formation, balls going that way, I going, you know that kind of thing. So that's where that's where Layton vanderesh. He can't be like slow reading. You got to read fast and flow and get out of there so you don't get blocked.

If you can maintain that ability you used to maintain that separation, then you're going to make a lot of plays. I'm feeling very happy to see the foot brace off of Jalen Smith as well, So yes, Sat, we'll see how long that lasts. But if that's a separate right direction, I mean when he was when he was hitting in that home run derby, he didn't have any problem with planting his left foot and swinging, so that's a good sign. So we'll see. But again, it's getting back to playing football. Yeah, um,

it's almost time to go out. You know what. I double checked the elusive light pull too. By the way, this morning. You are good, you're and I still can't find one that's gotten done in it. No skyblue pet curve of sky blue paint either. We're gonna have to find that, all right. Well, it is May twenty second, twenty eighteen, and if you guys are listening, that means

that where the start of OT is. So this episode in particular will be so fascinating for us to go back and listen to because there's a lot of talk, a lot of speculation, and we just gotta sea some football being played. So next time we talk to you guys next week, we will have watched an OTA practice. We will have more answers for you and join us. Then, Thank you guys so much, and thank you Douglas for manning the production in there. We will be back next week.

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