Talkin' Cowboys Break: Optimistic Going Forward?

What is it, Emmy? I am Emmy nominated? Yeah, so am I appreciate, so am I. This year we'll see our host is show. Hey, welcome everybody to our joint show. The as the Big Boys guy said Hanging with the Talking Cowboys Break, Brian Broadus, Mickey Spagnola, Nate Newton, and David Hellman. Gentleman, Welcome, welcome, welcome, Hey. I want to get into this thing off and running. Mickey, I know you were out on the field, actually I was out in the hallway. Out in the hallway. Did you see

anything that you liked on the field. I know it's kind of been an hour practice. It's ones, first ones. It's really not getting ready for anybody but anything out there. Shawn Lee. So good to see Sean Lee back out there. So the work he did yesterday was somewhat like he's been doing. He's out there for the stretch, the drills that they're doing, you know, throwing the football to the linebackers, acting like they're intercepting the ball, which we haven't seen it,

which is a good thing. Yeah, we haven't seen that our hands on it. Yeah, So yeah, he's back out there. You know, Hitchens didn't look like he was any worse for the wear after playing his first game in about six seven weeks. David Irving back out there, said yesterday he was a little sore, which is understandable. Did not see Tyrn Smith out there, so it looks like they're giving him the week or week off. Yeah, just go

get that backward as right as you can. Yeah. And other than that, it was just kind of a look like a normal day out there, same as yesterday. And this is Walter o'kin cry yes reporting live like a cigarette some cigarette smoke going in the background. If you're gonna do that, David yesterday though, we uh, some guys you just got done from the press conference. Yeah, and we talked about yesterday on our show. We talked about Nolan Carroll no longer part of the organization. Justin March

Lillard scouting report on Dallas Cowboys dot com. If you care to see what the linebacker from the Chiefs, Dolphins and Seahawks, what kind of work he had on film? His name again brought us Justin March Lillard that he play enough to have some work on film. He did have enough. He was on film, So watched the preseason from Kansas City this year. He actually special teams work with Seattle this year against Anneapolis Colts. I want to say it's week four, so he has He's not one

of those guys that's been on the couch. He's he's been a guy that's has has participated. I think the thing that you'll probably be a little concerned about is he's not the most consistent tackler. Hmm. That's what he can run, and that's not what the special teams needs either. Yeah, he can run and he can get to where he needs to be. He doesn't overrun plays all my reports there on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. But I don't know

if he's the most consistent tackler. Let's see, we should have kept what is Nasacha that that you know he got signed off to practice squad? Yeah, signed away. This would have been a spot you're looking. You're looking at this guy mainly as a special teamer though I'm looking as a special team and a backup guy right now. Can he stand up up up top of where the gunners are and hold up all somebody? That's what Mickey loves. Mickey wants somebody that could just jam a gunner into

the bench and he's right. Or how about just give the punt returner five yards of space? That would be even better. I'm not asking for a lot. Hey, thank you for that segue because it broke down the special teams today on that you know, and one of my areas that need to improve is the hunt return and I appreciate your insight on that. They need to get Ryan Switcher going. I know he fumbled the ball, but they need to get that going. But Lillard, Marshall, Lillard,

backup guy, special teams guy. The tackling, you know, might be a little hit and miss there, so well, we'll keep an eye on that. Another player that coach mentioned today, we didn't report it as official, but we can report it as official today with Stephen Paya no longer on the roster. Tie the knee just too much, Nate, That to me, that's a loss. That's a big loss because he didn't mind eating up blocks. He made it easier for a three technique. He makes it easier just the

middle of the defense. You know. Wow, I just that's to me, that's a big loss. And who will replace him with? Yeah, that's what I want to get into. I mean, did you see enough Mickey of Lewis Neal and training camp to get a good field that Maybe I know he's a six foot defensive tackle, but did you get enough feel of him to to be that guy that, Yeah, let's give this cat a chance. Let him roll. I was six, yeah, yeah, sixty six, sixty yeah, yeah, I got enough beef, sixty six sunset. Yeah yeah, give

him a chance. I had him on my fifty three man rob, give him a chance. I thought he was gonna make it, okay. I liked what he did in training camp, liked what he did in the preseason games, and uh, it sounded like from what Jason Garrett said when we walked off that it might likely come down to either him or ash Ash. Richard Richard Ash. We saw him number ninety two, seventy six, seventy six bank Okay, okay, yeah, okay,

because I'm a numbers guy. When he comes to young guys ashes, the other guy that me you talked about doing the ashes, the only other big body detail, Yeah, number seventy six, Okay, yeah, okay, Now I'm with you. You like it what he's saying about about young Neil. Hey, I would love for Lewis Neil to be on this fifty three. He I want pass rush. That's honestly what

I loved about Stephen Pie. I know Nate's right that he could eat up blocks, but I really thought Stephen Pie was going to have a great year with how well he gets into the backfield. And if you want a guy that, if you want a guy that can do that, Lewis Neel's your guy, I think. But I do wonder about Richard ashe because this front is so small and they've struggled against the run. Maybe you just want to have the old My favorite, one of my

favorite Brian broad Us sayings, the trash can full of dirt. Yeah, maybe you just want a guy that you can't move. So I don't know that's an interesting choice. Um not in this case? Uh what to heal? Yeah, you're good. Yeah, you got the skins on the wall. You can go with it. Because the Cowboys are not a good enough team to to how to play a balance offense, they have to dictate one or the other. You either gonna run them to death are you gonna pass them to death?

But if you do them both, they have no chance. We was successful no one hundred yard rushes and we're not only giving them a hundred yard rushes now, we're giving them up to a tune of over one hundred and fifty yards a game that cannot happen to this young defense and inexperienced defense like it is. You know, so we got to stop to rush. So if the other guy ash gives us a chance to stop to run as much as I want, mister Neil, if he's

a run stopper, go with the run stopper. My colleague here, though he thinks he was on he had Neil and his fifty three. I did it too, Yeah I did it too. But so obviously you feel like though he can't play the run and give you something in the past. Are you're thinking that way, Mick? Yeah, But here's the deal. Whoever comes in is probably a rotation guy, right right, because I mean, you're gonna leave David Irving in the middle there, I would leave David Irvan in the middle.

You want to move him to the three technique Nick Collins as the one. Nah, you don't do that. What you do is you David? Yeah? Davers is a specialist. Okay, let's see get this team does not stand a chance if they don't ever stop to run. I'm with you. Oh, he's he's he's trust me. I do a show with him every days. He's on that if if they if we're gonna put a guy that's in the middle, he's

got to eat up bodies. He's got to make sure that Sean Lee and Hitches is free because it would do no good if I if I'm a guard and you let me leak up on with Sean Lee and Hitches. No. Is that what the linebackers are struggling? I think it's part of it, for sure. Well, part of it's also that Shaun Lee hasn't been playing and John I'm just taking I'm taking the approach that the the the leakage, the second level block in or the lack of taking

up blocks is killing these linebacks. That's letting the linebackers off the hook a little bit, in my opinion. But I certainly think that could help. And that's honestly. I think a guy like Richard Ashe probably helps these guys more than than a guy like Lewis Neil. And that pains me to say, because I like Lewis Neil a lot. I think we put him on all Man. Yeah. So so David Irving sitting No no, no, no, no, no. What I'm saying David, he'd be that one technique to

eat up space. David Irving is to me as a specialist, all right, and what are you gonna do with But what I mean by that is any any inkling of a past rush situation, even and even second and second and five or more, Okay, any time it's up, any time it's a past situation. Now, I'm not saying that David Irving can't stop to run. I just haven't seen it. But what we need is if he can stop run, put him in there. Because I promise you you talk

to Lee, I'll let you talk to Ron Marinelli. They're saying, man, we need somebody because if the only person Sean Lee can get around blocks, he can find a way to maneuver to get tackles, same way with hittings. He's smiling, But Jalen has not been that guy being a physical limitation. Our guys leaking on on him. He's not been that guy and we all know why. But here, you want things to be clean. If things are clean, shun of Lee is hitting people in the backfield off game, Yeah don't.

I'm with you. He's trying to figure us out. How do I how do I maximize what I get out of David Irving easy, he's a specialist to me, David, to me, now you've said that short time. He's a specialist. I mean, but you don't seem as a starter. We okay, all of these guys. The only person that ain't a rotation, he's only two guys that are not rotation guys. That's Lawrence and that's my leak. Everybody else is rolling. Yeah, that's a fair. That's how I look at you know,

David Irvin is. But now when it becomes a pass rush or we think it's gonna be a past situation. Of course, I want David Irvin in there, but first down and maybe second and third or second in where it can be a run. You need guys to be that can stop the run. Because this kid hit us last week for nineteen carress for twenty five yards. He was averaging a godly over five yards of carross. Sure that that we we can't dictate where our safety goal.

Let's let's think about this though. I am curious about this because all right, let's say that Louis Neil does get the call up. How are you deploying this defensive line. That's what Mickey was just trying to Yeah, and I'm I'm I'm curious. I want to I'm thinking, why would you, Okay, give us your starting four? Who give us your starting I want David Irving on the field. I don't disagree. I don't. The only look who had tackles for losses David.

David Irving had a couple, okay, which sacks too. So I'm I'm playing Irving, and I'm playing David and Kin and Malik at at defensive tackle, playing DeMarcus Lawrence at left end, right, yes, my right end. I don't that's still that's still the issue. It's an all comers meeting. Well, and I'm saying Tyrone Crawford to start, I'm well, what I'm saying it doesn't matter. In what I understand that I've got over time is it doesn't matter who starts,

it's who's in the rotation. Let me ask you this, guys, would you consider playing David Irvin to right end? I would play David Irvin anywhere on a yes, I was playing him anywhere. I don't, but I want to see it. I mean, we've always seen him have the west side. If you think what they've done with Crawford over there, they've decided and Marinelli said it, but we don't have anybody that seems to have the quickness to beat these athletic left tackles. So I'm going with power. Well, if

he wants power, I understand Crawford. But power squared is David Irving. Now does he have the discipline to play that edge and hold down the edge in the running game? Well that part ain't. Nobody had the power, honest, nobody or the discipline edge down. Yeah, I don't love the way that sounds. I'd playing him at right in. I would try it, but I don't love the way that sounds.

But and so really, the reason I'm asking this in the first place is because I'm trying to find a way to play Lewis Neil in this scenario where we all love Will. I think we all love I think we all love Lewis Neil more than Ash. Well, what situation are you putting him on the field in? Well, you know what I mean. Here's what they've been doing the same when the other team. When the other team gets the ball first and ten at their own ten yard line, the backup lineman go in. Yeah, Lewis Neil

goes in. Let me say this right here, the same way the fine time to put in, mister Charlton, give him ten plays, give him five plays in the little little bitterness better. Oh yeah, I got a lot of bitterness a little better than me. Yeah, you're saying, if he was playing better at right in, we wouldn't be having this discussion about the right in. Well, I'm not just blaming him, because it's been pretty consistent that they

have an issue. Is this here? And I'm better because what I want, what I want more than anything, is for us to be able to stop something that gives our linebackers and I back in a chance to uh concentrate, you know, to be able to read the keys a little bit faster, to be able to see things a little bit quicker, if you can just dictate a little bit of what's happening. Uh. David Irvy, I got great respect for him, But one thing I gotta see starting this week is, I saw what you did against Green Bay?

Can you do it again? Can you do it again? That? That is? And can you do it? That is the biggest and even even the even the defensive coordinator will tell you that, Yeah, nice game. Yea, yeah, that's been his If you were a Green Jersey, he plays like an all pro. He should just play whoever whoever's playing Green Bay should sign him for that week. Now, the Viking's got some pretty good defensive lineman. They might not get him this week. Yeah, it's the Cowboys need him,

even if he's not always is that good? So we but we like we like Richard ashe though if that was the addition, I mean, does it does it make you feel any better? I mean, but does but to sign it? But putting on Neil make you feel better? For what they're trying to do. I would rather have the potential for more sacks and behind the tackle for losses and stuff like that, and more stops behind the

line of scram and somebody's gonna hold up blocks. But I don't disagree with you, now, Okay, expect Hey, if Sean Lee's out there, he's gonna get the job done regardless of how well they're holding up blocks. In my opinion, See, to go back to about to lose his mind is one thing you are, one thing you learned about me. I respect everybody opining on me. Laugh, I mean couple

of my eyes. But over time it is proven that don't matter how great your linebackers all right, in a four to three, not a three four, but a four to three, you're gonna need for your down lineman to be playing on the other side of that field because if they're not, people are gonna start leaking off and chipping you and hitting you, and over time it will wear you down. See. And one thing I've known is I've seen offensive linemen on linebackers more than I'm used

to seeing. Yeah, yeah, that's that's that. Seems like they're getting free scrimmage and all of a sudden they're on the linebackers. Yeah, and not one, but sometimes two. That happened. Sean Lee is smart enough where to go high. Well, he's gonna he's gonna hit you with a shoulder's gonna get up under your gee yourself leverage. But over time and see, now, maybe we're looking at if we can get fifty five plays like we got from Green Bay. I was a nominally last week. We just played a great,

great player. But if you can get fifty five plays a game of no more than sixty, I don't care who you put up front, as long as they rushing the pass. On with him, rush the pass. But when you saw some a sixty sixty five seventy five, you're gonna get your linebreakers beat up. And that's again I prefer the guy that's gonna give me production in the backfield.

But it totally makes sense why you might prefer Richard ash because he can do more to help that element of your defense, especially if he if he gets a little penetration. It still comes down to how how weird is it right now that we're having this conversation, we're worried about the run. We're really not worried about their ability to get to the passer like they're not. No, no, the the whole narrative was about who where's the pass

rush gone from it? That's not now Mickey his six Mickey has hit the fire alarm and it's run defense and he's no, I'm just trying on our show. Micky Mickey said, Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa Wait a minute. Yeah, and here's here's my puzzling thing about Richard ash What has he done? None of them? I mean and Treni Camp did he ever He's a big guy, he's a big guy, but did he ever make an impression? See, that's what I'm saying. You put you put the other

guy on your fifty three because he did. Think we'll see. And that goes back to the crux of this whole thing, because I would argue Richard ashe did do something which is take up space and eat blocks. That's not sexy. It doesn't look good. That's why Lewis Neil flashes at you because he gets in the backfield and hits somebody. Thinking that Richard ashe does is just not very appealing, but it's useful. Yeah, that's right here, you know, if we was to go to Rob marion ETI any defensive guys.

The first thing you asked him, Sam, what do we have to do to help this defense? But what is the thing that you're telling your defense we gotta do first? And I think five out of out of six gonna say, man, we gotta stop this run. Yeah, you know, and so you it's a lot of ways stop run by penetration, you know, if Neil can get back there and you know, and make the it's all about making a bat read direct. I hesitate talking about we're not ling that guy trying

to help this rundy. Yeah, well, David Irving's there, No, no, I know, but I'm just saying, guy, it's come to the point where you're like, you know, but David, maybe come down to ash or is a starter deal, but you still gonna need some help, you know, I understand. No, no, yeah, you're right, but for a starter, Irving's got to be I don't disagree with you there. All right, we're gonna take our first break here from the s WBC mortgage to his boy. That was a fast little bit of

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be a cowboy. Stetson hats are handmade right here in Texas and have been on cowboys head It's for over one hundred fifty years. The rest of you can visit stetson dot com slash cowboy to find a retailer nearest you. This is the Talking Cowboys break streaming live on Dallas Cowboys dot com and the official Dallas Cowboys out Hey, Brian, Hey, Dave, and Mickey for that matter. Yes, put Tommy John on your end zone underwear that's guaranteed to never write up.

Trust me, I wear it's nothing like you ever wore before. Um, I'm wearing it right now. You feel good about it? Does I feel great? It feels outstanding? Does it? It's no bunching wedging perfect way to start my day, isn't it's it's outstanding. Go to Tommy john dot com Forward Slash Cowboys you can get twenty percent off your order. I would never steer you wrong. What Rob's never read about the end zone? No, he has it, three or four of them. I gotta start writing my own because

I get tired of reading these. Yeah, well, I just thought I put him in front of you though, and I we shuffled the deck and then yeah, Mickey, Rocky usually picks hard. My end zone is well protected. They I got me some triples Triple Johns. Yeah, got that. Hey, you can need some Triple Johns after eating a bunch of Papa Johns. You got the hanging with the Talking Cowboys break Brian brought us Mickey Spagnola, Dave Hellman, and

Nate Newton. Um, I want to We're gonna maybe if we have a chance to take some calls later in the show that numbers two one, four, eight seven two twenty one O two. Be nice to executive producer Kent Garrison if you're calling in. But we will if we can get some calls later on. But right now, I want to get into a little Cowboys fill in the blank with my guys, and I'll ask somebody a question and then afterwards everybody else can have a shot at it.

And Mickey, I'll start with you since you're like me, you're the older gentleman of the group. Jerry Jones, nicky, Jerry Jones is pleased with blank about his team. I would say he's pleased that he sees some young guys on the come that they they were relying on. Some of these guys, they may not be there yet, but I think he sees a future in some of these dbs. I think he sees a future in some of his

young defensive lineman. And I think, you know, from an offensive standpoint, you know, he's got to be a static with how the quarterbacks this team on his back. Dave Hellman, he thought there on that same question. Yeah, just go for it, just if you want to give a quick answer. Mick kind of threw it in there at the end. He's got to be very pleased with this quarterback right now, because if you think about it, we're not out of

the woods. And the thought that you know, you parted ways with your statistical leader in most of your passing categories, put your trust than this fourth round kid. And he had a bad day in Denver, but man, if he hasn't been kicking butt for the last time, he looks absolutely capable of putting this team on his back if he might have to. He might have to. And and it's encouraging. Uh. Four out of the five weeks of the season he's played up to that level. He looks

really good. LYO Collins has to be pleased with Loo Collins him playing at right tackle. Yeah, we got to be because out of all the guys, when I look at him, he has his moments, but it's been bad. He's more good than bad. Yes, sir, he got to be pleased with that because his officive line, I mean, has been not the consistent thing we saw last year. I got you then, I'm going to you with this one. Jason Garrett should be concerned with this blank area of

his squad, his offensive line. Can I let you right into that one? Yeah? They can they play with consistency? Can they truly play with consistency? Mickey, I'll just stick with my run defense, Dave. Well, you guys covered two of the big ones. I'm about the about the safety play. Just overall, the back end play. It's already to this point in the season, it feels like we've seen more chunk plays than we saw for most of last year. Good cover guys and not good tackle guys. Chunk plays

that turns into touchdown. Absolutely, that is killing us. You saw it in Denver. You saw it. Todd Gurley probably exposed it the best of all, Aaron Rodgers. I'm willing to give you a little more of a pass against one of the best to ever do it. But uh, these guys are still eating up yards. I'm reluctant to call most of them good cover guys at this point. I think they cover better than they tackle, though. Okay, Woods, So it's how much Jones? How much different is it

than last year? Because Barry Church's contribution was close to the line of scrimmage right eight, So that meant JJ Wilcox was back there with Byron Jones and and Jeff Heath was part of that, and um, well he's still part of it. Yeah, No, I know, different role though, well, still playing safety. I don't have this, but I don't have that's a different role that'll make that that uh playing more places, and that's that's I think that's what

smith Is always said, like m Smith. You know when the guy took him at Smith plays and in US, you know, you know that people didn't get him and him and say there's one thing to running enough for fifteen plays and running another thing and running up for forty right, that's absolutely right. Yeah, So they were so perfect in the twenty five plays they have. We talked about it on the show. The twenty five plays for Will costs were like, we don't need to see him, yeah, right,

might be that we've challenged with. Yeah, the fifteen or twenty plays for for heat. So we were like, man, we got it. This is you know, last last year's defense was great at limiting it to an eighteen or twenty yard game, and it seems like this year they've had their problems with that work plays you let the twenty yard game turned into a forty yard touchdown, etc. I got you, David. If Stephen Jones slash Will McClay could add a player at the trade deadline, he'd fill

this blank position. Oh man, um, if they were going to make a trade right now, I would probably do it for an offensive lineman guard specifically. But you're gonna try and figure out you're gonna You've done enough with you, You're done with the Jazz Green. I'm just thinking or Iron Bell or Horror or a safety. I'll double down

on my last answer, but you think about it. A Woozier playing safety now, if he can never get on the field, that would be And I guess that plays into my point though, which is what what is that big hole that you have on your team that that you can't fill already with the guys that are on your roster. And I'm not saying that this roster is perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But you present me with a problem. I have a way to deal with it. You know, linebacker has been bad. Sean Lee

and Anthony Hitchins are coming back from injury. I hope that gets better. You can move Cheeto Woozier to safety. You can plug Xavier Wood, you can play Xavier Woods more. Um, you know what else am I? You know Bryce Butler if you're not happy with Terrence Williams, you can bump Bryce Butler or Noah Brown for that matter. Up the

receiver depth chart. You've got running backs who can fill in for Zeke if you get suspended I have yet to feel great about left guard for a variety of reasons, and I don't think there's an answer on this team that'll make me feel a lot better, Nicky. Do think they've lost confidence in Chaz Green State, I don't know

able to get out there and play. I don't know if they've lost confidence because Jonathan Cooper, I'm sorry, Yeah, No, I think that they've lost I think you know, Nate, correct me if I'm wrong, But spitting the bid on a Friday afternoon getting ready for game week. You know, Aaron Donald, we all understand what that was all about. But you know, you know what I'm saying, Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Yeah, And if if you ask me that in confidence, yes, I do. I think that they.

I think that they've lost confidence in him that to say that, hey, we're going to see in this matchup. We got you ready all week and you spit the bit and he probably got hurt. I'm not saying he didn't get hurt. He definitely got hurt. Yeah, But you know, but we've seen Lineman play through stuff. We've seen he was healthy enough to be active for that game exactly exactly? Can you can you so going on what the questions. Can you find somebody better than Byron Bell out there?

That's what I'm saying. It might probably not. Yeah, and well that and that's you know, I'm reluctant to talk trades because ninety nine, Yeah, I said this on the break, Yes, right, I was just saying, if a way to go, get a guy that could help you. Right now, you're talking about in house guys. But maybe you can't find that in house guy. And you guys are saying left guard, and I don't disagree with you guys. Other I mean,

that's the best answer I can come up with. Where there aren't any good options that are already on the team. They could. Let me just say this right quickly, like fellas, we were soul Christmas came so nice last year to have four name another offensive line that has four studs. We had four studs. What we have now is what the league norm. That's the league norm. R three good guys. We got really three great guy but three good guys. And the other two talked about wild Collins though, okay,

lyle Collins is a stud. I mean he was one of the you know when they gave him Leary's job. You know, and then he got hurt. Leary got the job back. Uh, just thinking we just think we had Leary and Lyle out of the right this case. Now that now that begs my question here, would you consider playing Lyle Collins back inside and then trying to find no way? Now okay my right tackle? Yeah no, see you you have to live with this. This is the league.

This is the league. So so the left guard, well they got to decide coming out of his break is they got to look chas in his in his eyes, his son, we need you? Are you are you going to play? Are you with us? Are you not? That's the question. That's a fair question. And people like, well, yeah, Jimmy done me like that. Jimmy did a lot of players. Son, we need you? Are you with us? Just simple question. So what we need more than anything, it's for our

team defensively to stop the run. Yeah, if I had to go ohead and get a guy, give me somebody that can help this linebacking corps stop this run. Because if we don't, every game is gonna be thirty five or forty five. Oh he'll tell you that in our show. He'll tell you got to score forty this week, you know, and he's usually not wrong. Then maybe the answer to the question is I need somebody that could play right defensive end. Hey, that's that's not Let you play tyrone inside? Yeah,

let you play can tacko play some snaps inside? And my crazy nickel is a nickel tackle? Maybe? Am I crazy for wanting to see that? I keep saying that nickel tackle? You know it bothers me more than anything. And you know I'd rather knock this coaching staff. This get as hard for me to knock this coaching staff. But don't ever, please don't don't run around putting guys all over the place doing training camp only for the

seat for the season to start, and we never see that. Yeah, if you're gonna put guys all in the insights in just in case, well when just in case pop up, let's see him see Charleston. And this is old school with me. This is just a problem I have. You don't spend a number one asset on nobody's defense and this guy is not on the field. Now. I understand that we want to win, but play this young guy

played the safety. But they much better than than they must They much better, but they understand what the coach. I'm with him. Yeah, we we we saw him inside doing training camp on the field. Okay, yeah, I mean

what is he playing about? Twenty plays a game. It's it's it's it's well, he should play more than I mark him on my on my chart every time I watch tape and I'm mark him where he comes into and there's some big gaps, big gaps, and see like, all right, you're probably not gonna get us killed here go yeah, out there and show what you can do. All right, But that's one of those things when they're first and ten p M. Put him in, all right, mean if he's not in there, we begetting killed. Yeah, yeah, no,

I not. I mean Mayoa has a drill. Oh no, that's that's fair. Yea, all fair. Mickey Blank has played better than I ever expected this season, ever expected already. M hmm. That's a that's wow, that's I'll get I'll give you one. That's okay, make you well ahead ahead, yeah, jump in. It might help me out. I mean, when did you ever need looking back? Better than expected? I had. I had high hopes for him coming out of the spring, but for a guy that didn't practice at all in

the summer. Jordan Lewis is better than I could have expected that a rookie would be. Wow. Sweet yeah, Sordan Lewis now dak back exactly yet to be good. I'd expect, not for us not to have had If our running game was in tach and this kid could be who he was, protection, it would be all. It would no doubt in my mind, we would be at least uh or four and one five and oh if if we would have had a running game because it's playing well.

I mean, this dude doesn't. Wow, he didn't did some backyard stuff man that we never would have thought that he should. That's a good point considering how the run game isn't working it used to. I'll go with Dave. Yeah. I searched and Lewis man, I was somewhat skeptical. We didn't know. I didn't like his size, and all that I was told was he will play better than his size. He makes plays on the ball, and that's what he's gone.

Laughing at the irony there no no, because last year when we was doing this show and I brought up this kid, nay that they like he told me that they liked him. Yeah, and I said, man, and I looked at him, my red up one him living. I even spoke to you. And the next day I come back and said, man, this kid make you play like. I hate his height. I don't want a short DV. I'm like, okay, here we go. Nicky wanted Kevin King. Francis has worked my opinion on Shiit quarter day ago. Yeah, Nate, Yes, sir,

Blank is how I would describe this Cowboys running game. Inconsistent. He's inconsistent. That's it. Dave disappointing, Wow, Dave really disappointing. And that's I know how crazy that sounds. Because they're running. They're running for buck sixty, buck eighty. You know, they're they're running the ball. It ain't it ain't good enough and it ain't up to we we are. But you know what you did it once? Oh sure, and honestly, And also I keep saying this and I'm gonna say

it till I'm blue in the face. They will only be the team that they want to be, i e. A playoff team and a super Bowl contender when they get back to that level where they're running. And it will because that's how you keep your defense off the field, keep your defense from hurting you. That's how you limit your quarterback having to carry the game, which not by no fault of his own, increases the likelihood that he makes mistakes just because he's having to do more stuff

they're not. They will probably be a mediocre team as long as their running game is operating it. The running game can't do anything to stop a Packer fourteen play drive. I'm just saying running game is at some point the defense has to get off the field. But how would you describe the running game? I mean miss firing spark plug. There you go. I like that champion spark plug. Yeah, I like a change. Sometimes it is nice and sometimes nothing between them. Got to put the little thing I didn't.

The spark plugs purpose is to start the engine. Yeah, right, so if it's not doing it right, it's not disappoints. You have to remember you have to go hit it with the hammer. Yeah. The old days, we knew where our spark plugs. When we knew where they were. All right, we're gonna take our final break for my man, Ken't Garrison. We come back. I got some more questions for the guys, and we'll get to him. Hopefully maybe grab a call or two if that's available. You're listening to uh what

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Cowboys and with us you'll travel like a pro. Is it Cowboys Travel dot Com to book your travel package today. This is the Talking Cowboys break streaming live on Dallas Cowboys dot com and the official Dallas Cowboys out So if you were watching Jason Garrett's press conference to day, you saw in the background the logo behind us. Yes, that logo, it was Papa John's up. Wow. And do you know why that logo was out there? Why? Because

of the ingredients. What is the ingredients make? Because the veggies are freshhole and never frozen, Feroni Parking Beats certified proud by the US. Hey go. And when you're have ingredients like that, you get your logo up behind Jason Sagett and it's Papa John Yes logo to hat. Thank you, Papa John's Thank you Mickey for that read where I don't think I read anything. Yeah, you didn't. You did right between you, Between you and Nate, it was a it was it was a great We had a lot

of experienced he did have a lot of experience to it. Okay, we're back here in the SWBC Mortgage studios. Brian brought us Mickey Spagnola, David Hellman, Nate Newton. M'm gonna finish up this fill in the blanks. I got a couple more. I think they'll make us think a little bit. I like I like the dialogue that everybody's talking about, and I hope everybody's liking that out there listening. And I'll start back with you David Hellman, because you brought this

up during the break. If I had to play Terrence Williams or Bryce Butler Moore, I'd play blank. I'd probably stick with what it is because and not. I don't mean that as a compliment to Terrence, because he has been frustratingly inconsistent even by his standards, especially these last two weeks. I mean, huge, huge plays in both games in a bad way. But hasn't the knock on Bryce

been very similar? I mean it's funny now finishing. Yeah, it's funny now because he had a great day in Phoenix and he was very He's He's had a great month really Phoenix. He scored a touchdown against the Rams's, he made a couple of big catches against the Packers. He started his season off with two or three horrendous drops. Right, these are these guys are both they are what they are. To borrow a line from Nate, They're both talented but

inconsistent receivers. Terrence is at least useful as a blocker and can do other things like that away from the ball. So I mean, I'm not thrilled with the way Terrence is playing, but I'm fine leaving him where he's at, because I don't think Bryce is that much of an improvement either. Mickey six and one half a dozen to the other. Yeah, that's pretty you don't have No, it's just it's two guys, the similar guys. If there were

similar types of games, guys, what to say? Six and one half a dozen and some of my eggs, right, Yeah, and then when one crack, you just bring bring it back and just get the other six out there. I mean, I mean they're not perfect. They aren't perfect, neither one. They're gonna have their drops, they also make their plays. Yeah, So I think do you feel better about one over the other? No? If I did, i'd be advocating for it.

And I know you sound everybody's. I take a little bit of issue with Mick right there, just because to be to be this offense's number two receiver for four years and to still be having miscus like what we've seen from Terrence these last two weeks. That's that's more than saying he's not perfect. That's like, come on, man, help me out, help me help you. Well, you're not trying to. You don't replace Dez When he drops a

pass and he's had drops this year. Sure that has made plenty of mistakes, but he has repaid those with great plays over seven. Yeah, right here, fellas, when I look at other guys number two's and I just need more. I just need just a little bit more, not not much more, just a little bit more. I mean, I'm always up. The other thing is and is when your quarterback needs you to most as when you got to

come up right, it's it's quality, not on. Yeah, because if you want to be considered a special guy, you know, it ain't but one Julio Jones. It ain't but one Brown. But they got guys around them that when they quarterback, when they're doubling, their quarterback need them most, boom they and they're there. And uh, that's what That's the only thing I asked because I learned a valuable lesson when Weedon and the other guy House was here and they

was trying to force this ball to this kid. I mean I was, I was raking them over the colds. But you know, me and Mick was talking one day, said they he is what he is. Yeah, And then that's when I backed up because he's not a number one and he's really shouldn't be your second option, just just my let me ask you this, and he really isn't. Yeah,

you think about it. Yeah about the fourth option. Let me ask you this though, is the receivers do they fall into that same group we've talked about the inconsistencies with offensive line and things like that. The situation has gotten them the situation like like hellman say, if they want to be who they want to be and they want to go somewhere, they'll have to run the ball.

Because I used to tell Mick our Beasley's best friend used to be deads, but now they didn't figured out they don't have to cover and we cover deaths with one guy. Let's let's just go out there and seek a heat, make a play, and we'll bracking up this little guy in the middle, and we'll get this once we get it. Once we get uh and we're open field. Yeah, we ain't gonna beat us in open field. We get down in the red zone, he'll beat you. And now we'll bracking him up too. So they crowd up the

middle and they ask for dads to whoop them. Yeah, you know, I think for you know, the narrative was that these this Receiver Corp has been together for going on three years now, and they've been working with Dak. They were healthy all offseason, and I get that, you know, obviously the struggles with the running game play into that,

but I need more, man like brother. For as complimentary as we were throughout the offseason, I'm not willing to just chalk it up as well, they got to run the ball better like these I need more from them. And that's I don't even I don't need Terrence Williams to be this amazing playmaker. I just need him to not drop a ball that turns into a pick six in his own red zone. And it's little stuff like that. I'm with you. At some point, you're passing game gonna

have to gonna have to win a game. And it looked like we had an opportunity last week where you're passing was gonna have to win a game. But the consistency of our running game, We'll get you for a half, and then all of a sudden, we we we got Dak running around back. They're spending out doing all these great and I just said on this show that the running game is the key to their success. But if the running games struggling. You gotta pay help me out, man.

But you get But but and I hate to say this because we in the middle of a season and there's nobody else out there. But that's where your horse isn't And I'm not not no cold b I'm talking my up. Yeah, I'm serious. I don't disagree. Kind of segues to my question to Mickey. Mickey, fans are too quick to judge Blank as a player. As a player, Yeah, I don't thought you were going to say, as a team who have the judged fans are too quick to judge this Blank as a player. I can step in

again if Micky, I'm sick of this. I'm I'm sick of of of hearing about Jayalen Smith and what a bad player he is. And honestly, uh wow, really hearing this? Can you know what I'm saying is people saying that. I guess I can't answer this because I stay off Twitter all week. I hate I hate the way and

fans go at you. It's so frustrating to see because all through the spring in the summer, we were very cautious, weren't we about expectations for Jalan Smith about what that means about the step by step and this many snaps, and he handled all that really well. He handled it probably better than anybody expected, to the point where we were all really impressed and really excited. But that turns into this hype train that you know, he's ready to be an all pro player, and that was never true.

He was a surprisingly well adapted guy considering what he was coming from. And you know, when he got to play thirty five snaps against the New York Giants, he looked pretty good right playing alongside Sean Lee Mike and then, for various reasons, injuries being a big part of it, all of a sudden, he's playing seventy. Yeah, he's not ready for that, and especially without again not having Sean Lee, he's not ready. Instinctually, he's not ready for the speed.

I don't care what anybody says. He's not ready. From a health standpoint, he's clearly ready to play, and they're not putting on the field because he's not health it's clearly ready to play, and he can do some things well, but he is not recovered to the point that he is that freakish athlete from Notre Dame. He's just not and I think he still can be. He definitely still

can be. And that's why even going back to week one and week two, you're saying, what's still really exciting about this is what it means for twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen. And obviously he's played a lot more snaps than I think most people expected. His shortcomings have been exposed. That doesn't mean he's a bad player or a wasted pick. It just means that this is a long process. So to see people really coming at him like he's this

terrible player has has pissed me off. So that's the guy, because I guess I haven't seen that it's out, but you're you're probably right. And I always thought twenty eighteen was going to be his sure me just this was kind of a glorified red shirt here for him. He's going to play a little. No one expected him to be a starter and play fifty sixty plays a game.

Let's see, that's the situation. See that that's and that's what That's what every time man Brods looked at him in preseason, I kept saying, I hope they just practiced him a lot and give him five or six snaps a game. Don't don't do him like this because I have been a Dallas cowboy and I know the hype train that comes with it, and then if you fall short all of a sudden, it's a disaster, you know. And this guy and that's why I had I still

don't have any expectations for this kid. His kid's gonna be all right, but until they cut down on his snaps and let him see what he can't even digest from week to week, what's happening to him? Right? Just bye, yeah, I think can help him. Yes, that bacause I sensed him getting frustrated. Not publicly, right yeah, but on the field. Right there was frustration because he's in his body language because you're right, you're right, you know you know what,

because his brain saying I should have been there. His brain is Tennis. Well, he's seen it, he knows his mind. He goes I made this play a cover of times in my life. How did I saw one time dude shook him and when he got over that to him, when he finally got caught up to him, he stood over him. He's just looking. I'm saying to myself, son, just bear with it, just just get through it. You know, uh, this one time. It just is this was not a fair situation for him. Yeah, you know what, I think

people have overlooked what Nate said earlier about Lele Collins. Yeah. I think they've been pretty hard on him that you're just gonna pick up and go play a position he hadn't played since lsue. Yeah, and and not misslebeat And I see him getting better and better. He's still not there,

but he's getting better. Yes, he is. And and and that's a that's a tough transition, especially when, as Nate pointed out in training camp, when you're left handed and then you're trying to punch what you're right dam Yeah he brought it, So that's not noticing it like, wow, you can't hit Nobody was right? Yeah, you know it just we we we That's why I love being a cowboy man. It's depending I can't the thing. The blade's gonna swing both well, let me, I'll give you an example.

And I was guilty of this. Kent Norton Junior. Yes, his first couple of years, it was like wrong defense and white can't play, can't play, and he was hurt and then all of a sudden ninety one shows up and then ninety two shows up and all of a sudden, this guy's a pro bowler. Right, Sometimes guys take longer, and he was a second round pick now. Yeah, yeah, it takes guys maybe a little long. Everybody's not on

the same plateau of right. And he came around and look what he became, you know, even though coordinator for the Raiders. Yeah, how about that? Yeah, did a really good job and looking just like his daddy. Right, Yeah, I need to hit that chance. See if he got all right, We've we've got a couple more minutes left here in the show. We've got a break early because we've got to get out and get locker room joke

and care no good guy to pick? Oh yeah, we gotta pick, can't do We have anybody on the phone line that's uh that's tried to call us at two one four eight seven two twenty one O two. I have a caller right now, and give me one second to put them on. Okay, well Kent does that? No, thank you. Guys has some really good answers there for what we were trying to do. And I thought a lot of different opinions there, but the Jalen Smith. One that makes a lot of sense at the end because

I'm seen the same thing. Ken, Who do you got? Robin Vegas joining us, Robin las Vegas, welcome, my friend. What do you got? Hey? Everybody believe it or not. I was one of the guys that said I thought Jalen Smith was a wasted second round pick. Yeah, but not a wasted pick. A wasted second round pick when you're picking at number thirty four, you need a guy to come in immediately and help this team, especially on

defense where this team needs the most help. If you could have did this all over again, would you have chosen him at number thirty four? Well? I think uh, thanks Rod for the calling and our thoughts with you guys out there as you get your lives back together. I'm gonna I mean, you can go back and find hours and hours of tape of Brian broad Us saying he didn't agree with the pick and he wouldn't have

made that. No. Um, that was two drafts ago. Emmanuel Ogbo went off the board right before James Kevin Dodd went off right before that was two they were looking at I mean, yeah, Jay, I was stunned when they picked Jalen Smith. Um, so I don't remember who was available for them to take, do you, Brian, Well, they could have took the lineback Miles Jack was my guy there.

But yeah, they that, and they were going to take spins the Noah spin right because they knew too much of and and so yeah, that gets into the thing where you're saying, you know, I would have taken this guy that the run office never would have taken. Sure, And you can argue that to absolutely they knew what they wanted to do and they did it. If I could go back me personally, I probably would not draft

Jalen Smith. But that bed has long ago. And not only that, but now that he's now that you've spent the resource, why are you trying to close the door on right? Um, He's made a remarkable amount of progress. And I said this and I still believe it. I said it before the season started, you know, through training camp and probably up until week one when he looked

really good playing a smaller amount of snaps. I have a lot of confidence, and people who know a lot more than me about football have a lot of confidence that he can become that absolutely, and and it's hard for me to argue that seeing the amount of progress that he's made just since May of this year. UM, I think the answer for the guy is asked me this same time next year. Yeah, we always kind of thought, Ny.

You hate to say, he was the second round draft choice that you had to wait three years for, but they knew that, Yeah, they did. This is not a surprise. Well that music means sounds like he's gotta go, he's gotta player pick if you'd have one off just last right, there you go, all right, Mickey, Thanks, Thanks David Hellman, Thanks Snate, Nowton Kid, what's up broadcast? What the hell hanging with? We'll be back on Monday. Take care, everybody.

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