Talkin' Cowboys: Big Decisions Ahead

Mortgage studios here at the Star in Frisco. Welcome in everybody, as we break down the championship matchups that just unfolded in the Kansas City Chiefs the pride of Phillips preseason predictions are going back to the Super Bowl, which I really, honestly that probably wasn't the best prediction in the world, because, I mean, everybody kind of thought that that was a pretty good chance that the Chiefs would find their way back to the super Bowl, but the prediction did not

include Tom Brady going back to the Super Bowl. That's time as a member of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and we are going to talk about it with a former teammate of mister Tom Brady, Isaiah stand Back and our professional football analyst Heck my Harrison, Rob Phillips would join

us coming up here in just a little bit. I'm Kyle Yomen's Chris being back in the back as always and gentlemen, Yeah, there's a lot to break down from yesterday's action, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers taking down the Green Bay Packers initially and then followed up by really a dominant performance of the Chiefs over the Buffalo Bills, the uprising,

red hot Buffalo Bills. But what were your thoughts, Isaiah on really what unfolded on Championship Sunday and really the Super Bowl matchup that's now in front of us pretty much? What I what I thought, man, I thought that, you know, the Buffalo has had a good run. But obviously, I mean, hey, I mean those guys are who they are, right U They're just they're they're they're too powerful on both sides of the ball. Really. But then you look at the Green Bay Tampa game, and we knew that was gonna

be a tough game. You know, you got to two of the best to ever do it. But I think really the deciding factor between that game wasn't necessarily between the guys on the offenside of the ball. But it's their defense. And as soon as uh, you know, the defensive line of Tampa is very strong, very strong. And then as soon as you had to heard the news of my U dub mister Vita Vea coming back, you

knew it was pretty much a rap. That defensive line is just too powerful, um, pretty much for any offensive line, especially this time of the year. So um, the results came out, you know, the obviously TV twelves going back. He's that dude, and there all the haters that are out there, you really just probably just just just because he's he's he's he's nice. I was a hater earlier in the season, Isaiah because I basically told everybody that I thought he was washed and I will eat crow.

I'm gladly because that I was wrong. I was completely wrong. Now he's not what he was in two thousand and five. For those of you saying that, hey, it's the same Tom Brady as he was in his prime, that's not true. He's going to give away the football game. He tried to yesterday on three different occasions. But that defense, my goodness, heck, Ma Harrison, if you wanted to model the Cowboys defense after a team that like remade a defense in one

or two seasons. I think Tampa Bay would be kind of the formation to do that because that defensive line is just absolutely nasty and their secondary is pretty darn good too. Well. Yeah, especially when you can get you can get all of that pressure with just four guys, and that's what they're able to manufacturer in this system. And man, Jason Pierre Paul, how about him, a guy that was pretty much written off after he left the Giants going to Tampa Bay and this resurgence of his

career also in Dominican Sue. But man, it's Shack. It's not Shack, it's Shack bart Butt, say Griffin, Shack Barrett, Shack Barrett. And you know, I talk a lot about dogs and we need goons, and but that's exactly what I'm talking about. A guy that is getting off the ball like Shack Barrett is literally unstoppable. And when you can get that pressure like they did with the front four man the guys behind you, your secondary, you don't

have to have first round picks at every position. You can have some mid level guys and that pressure makes the difference in the way that you set up your coverage. Todd Bows did a masterful job, masterful job against against a quarterback Aaron Rodgers. That you're not going to stop him. You're not gonna You're just not going to stop Aaron Rodgers. But what you have to do is take things away, pick pick your poison. Right. We know we can't stop Aaron. Look,

we're gonna stop this run. What we're not going to allow you to do is run for two hundred yards. And you saw that man with their guys, their secondary, their linebackers. Man, just a hard hidden game. But Kyle, when you say that Tom Brady isn't what he was, you know an oh five man, when you get in your forties, Man, you wasn't what you was last month, So just wait five time. It's gonna come for you too, So you'd be careful how you talk about the seriatric

people of the world. Man. See, And whenever I was watching this game yesterday, there was there was frustration and Cowboys Nation out there. If you're listening, let me know that I wasn't alone because there was definite frustration and the fact that I mean, you waited all year to see a dog like maybe a DeMarcus Lawrence. And yeah, DeMarcus Lawrence had a decent ear, but you expect him to be what Jason, Peter Paul and Jack Barrett were yesterday.

That's exactly what you expect d law to be. You want him off the ball, you want him quick, and you want him to see that. And as we welcome Rob Phillips back into the show here in just a second, look at that nice slide from Rob Phillips and Chris Beam. The production value here is just outsolutely unmatched. But Rob, when you looked at that defense yesterday from Tampa Bay,

how can the Cowboys get to that? I know the defensive tackle position needs a very nice upgrade in order to even get remotely to that that amount of pressure in the interior. But off of the edge, with Randy Gregory into Marcus Lawrence, they should be able to do things like that. Yeah, I mean, I it's a it's a great question because I think overall those teams are where they are because top to bottom they have better players.

I mean, I think that's number one to your point. Yeah, that Cowboys have some pieces and I think it starts with your edge rushers. Um, but I look at like a Kansas City team, their secondary just flies around. I mean, they have a really talented group. Matthew and a lot of their guys, so Thornhill and connecting. They were connected to the Cowboys at one point or another, you know, and they weren't signed or they weren't drafted, and so you know, it comes down to it comes down to

your personnel. Hey, Rob, Yeah, but Pete, Hey, Pete, I gotta tell you this though, I was thinking of the guy, um, Jordan Whitehead for Tampa. Think about this. We took Dorrence Armstrong at one sixteen and the safety Jordan Whitehead went to Tampa at one seventeen. And don't do that, don't play that game, don't draft me. I mean he was, he was right there for y'all. Mean it is. This is a hard hitting safety that caused two fumbles in

the NFC Championship game. I mean, so we have we have missed on some second day guys, especially some safeties in the draft, and I would say Jordan Whitehead would be one of them to add to that list as well. Well. And you know what, it's it's funny. I just pop in. I'm sorry, it's the joys of parenthoods wine. Late today

I was listening. I was listening to a little bit of dan Quinn on with the PFF guys on their podcast, and he talked about really what he said it was a lot what Mike McCarthy said when he got the job last year head coach was players over scheme and so and that's dan Quinn's philosophy too. Now that's gotta be that's really gotta be a priority because you know, we heard that last year, but they tried to implement a scheme that I don't know really fit the personnel

they had. It certainly didn't fit the timeline of the pandemic and all that. So how can dan Quinn get the most out of the guys he's got? And so sometimes when your personnel is not at a super bowl level, you know, your scheme and the way you use players can overcome some of that. So this is a huge, huge role for dan Quinn coming in how he fixes things, how he gets guys more comfortable in the roles, understanding buying in the roles they are. And we talked about

some of that last week. That's how you overcome some of it, But I don't know how you. I mean, personnel like man to man I don't know how you're comparing Cowboys to the teams they're playing for at all. I mean, there's a reason why they're there, Yeah, But I mean, how, especially with all the speculation fellas I guess before going to the next team, how do you

get your roster to that point? Though? Because these is clearly the two most talented teams in the league, not even a competition, not even a competition, right, So that to your point, you know, talent over skiing. They have abundance of talent, but they have some pretty dark one good schemes to go along with that talent. That knows how to put those guys on the hundred pedestal, Right, they use every every inch of talent that they have within all their guys, right, all their guys. Who was that?

Who was that Perryman? Who who fumbled right on a hund return? And most teams will do what sit there, guy? Right? Sit there? Guy? What do they do? No, we're gonna come up with verse with him, and then we're gonna throw the ball to him and put him right back in there. He's gonna kill it, right, So it's not only the players in a talent level that they have but also to trust and the understand that these coaches have of the of what they have on the roster.

And I don't know, especially going into this offseason where the salary cap might be adjusted down, most likely be adjusted down, right, Like, what do you what can you do to catch up to those teams? Well, I mean, what can you do? I don't think you can in one year? I said that last That's a great point. As I said last week, I think it's from a personnel standpoint, I think this is like a two or three year job to try to get it, you know,

investing draft picks, investing salary cap money. I don't think you can do that. I think you've got to be just more sound defensively than you were last year, and not give up as many big plays, try to build on some of the turnovers you're forced, and then really you got to hope that your offense can just supplement it with Hey we can we can outscore teams, you know, I mean Cowboys kind of went through this in the mid two thousands, heck, where you know, defensively they were

in some some transition with their personnel. They had some signing guys kind of off the couch to play defensive line, but you still had Tony Romoy, still had an offense that could put points on the board, and you had a running game that help your defensive line too. So I think you've just got to be solid, if not spectacular, defensively next year. And if you look at it, just say Tampa, if you look at that defense, they've had these guys for a couple of years, right, so that

Tampa defense has been what it's been. They just needed that one piece to come in to take them to the next level. And you know, obviously football is the ultimate team sport, but if you look at Tampa and the numbers that they were putting up, let's say twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen, offensively, they were top ten in the league offensively, but they were bottoms as it related to wins and losses. Tom Brady comes in, I think worst they get the

right tackle as well. Just those pieces alone is what is excelling this team to get to the next level. And also Leonard Fournette, Like, let's stop to get Leonard Fournette, and I mean he showed up in a major way. So just the running game, fresh legs, fresh legs, fresh legs and then also being able to get those chunk plays and a quarterback. Then again, first half played flawlessly, second half a whole nother thing with tip balls and

just overthrown balls. But the turnover differential, we talked about that, right, Tom Brady turns the ball over three times, But if you look at the Cowboys defense when we've had turnovers, those have always equated in two points. So three turnovers twenty one points. If it's the Cowboys, that would be your ball game, right. So it's just all things being considered. When you look at and you talk about scheme and all of that, what scheme are you going to play?

Because if we're talking three four and looking at Tampa, they're having Dominican Sue, who is a large human human being, Vitaby the guy from you dub who is another massive person that can take on those double teams and allow your linebackers to run free. We tried to do that last last year and our guys were getting just just dug out of that. So you're paying poison in it question quick. First of all, got they had Lashaw McCoy. I forgot. I saw him in the postgame celebration I'm like,

that's like they do have talent. They have a ridiculous amount of talent just sitting not even touching the field. But but to your point, heck, in terms of them saying that they needed that one piece, right, that one major piece, right in terms of Tom Brady coming, that was you know in their coach said it, right, Brucereans, he said it. After the game, they said, well, you know what, what did this guy mean to you guys coming?

You know, what what do he mean when he came to his team and he said he just he made them believe in and the skill set they already had. Ye, Like, to your to your point, they've had this roster for a minute now, right. Obviously, they brought in TV twelve, they brought into tackle, they brought in ab they brought in Gronkowsky, They brought in some dudes. Now, let's not act like they didn't bring it more on one piece.

They brought some dudes in to solidify their stuff. But you know, but they brought in veterans, They brought in vets. So as we started looking towards the offseason, what is it that we can do? I know, we swung in miss On on eight sitting our business offseason. What is it we can do this offseason to play on play friendly with the Sellery cap to help us? Like, what pieces do we need? Obviously they needed a quarterback in some other thoughts, what pieces do we need that we

could feel the gaps with with better gaps. There's a long list, a long list. And that's the thing is if you're if you're comparing the Cowboys situation to Tampa Bay's situation. Sure, Tampa Bay went from the thirteenth overall pick last year. They took an offensive lineman in the first they took Antoine Winfield junior in the second round,

had a pretty good first two rounds. They didn't pick again until the fifth round, so they didn't have a bedvy of draft picks with the majority of their work came through free agency and then came through really the work throughout an offseason with Tom Brady with his veteran I guess I don't even know what you would call that Isaiah, just his knowledge of the game and the way that he's the multiplier, he acts as a multiplier

for the talent that's around him. I don't know if there's that piece out there that might be a one time thing. That was Tom Brady being Tom Brady, and there's you're not gonna go out there and say, you know what, that guy on that roster looks pretty cool. Let me go bring him in as a free agent, and then all of a sudden we're gonna be super Bowl contenders. It's not gonna be. It's not gonna work like that. You need a guy like that. But I'm

asking can Dak Prescott be that? Can his return be that jolt and that multiplier for the team around you? Because we've talked about it extensively on this show that whenever Dak Prescott went down with the injury in Week five, automatically the expect chas changed. They all changed. They all flipped, no matter what the record was beforehand, no matter what the team looked like previously. The expectations changed when Dak Prescott went out. Now can they change when he comes

back in Yes, yeah, of course they can. I like I like to think so, fellas, But you guys got to remember when you sign a guy like TB twelve, what happened to all the other free agents, Kyle. They came to him, all the other major free agents they wanted to come to him, right, they fled the Tampa Why because they believe in that guy? Right? What else happened?

Those free agents came? And when those free agents come, when Antonio Brown case on your team and you already have a Mike Evans in a good way, all those guys, right, what does he do to their game? That game has to do? What has to elevate it? You bring Gronkowski on, what happens to your tight end position? Not only is he gonna be do what he does, right, but everybody else's game elevates. Right. So it's not about just bringing

in guys that can do their job. It's about not only number one having a guy that everybody wants to flock and come play with, right, which is why the Houston situation is so serious right now? Right? And then but then number number two, you got to bring in guys who will elevate the play of everybody else at your position, because if that person goes down, they still have to be successful. People have to remember, Antonio Brown

did not play. Antonio Brown didn't play, now and ron would have been retired, he wouldn't have played for anybody else. So I mean, I look at it this way because I mean, it's hard to be positive about the way the season. We haven't been positive of this first segment. I do think, yeah, I think I think if Dak Prescott was healthy, they would have won this division. I really do. I think they would have had two friends

and they would have won. So, I mean, he gets healthy, your offense is healthy, your defense makes some strides forward, which I think they have to be able to go up from where they were. They just have to be there'sh so like so like, I think it's reasonable to think that they should be favorites to win the division at they're healthy next year, and if they do that, they give themselves a chance. And the thing about this this weekend was like it wasn't just about who's playing

in the super Bowl. It's like, what's the future of the conference now? Because Drew Brees very well may retire. Aaron Rodgers was really vague about his future now. He might if he doesn't go back to Green Bay, might wind up on another NFC contender. Adam Schefter was kind of sort of hinting at that today. But there may be a shift here and there may be actually some opportunities that aren't normally there because we're talking about like some of the greatest players of all time, and that's

who you're trying to compete with right now. And that's and that's what I'm saying, that's the that's the unfair comparison when you start talking about Tom Brady because he's proven he had skins on the wall, and that's why you want to go and play with Tom Brady because

of what he's done. You talk about Dak Prescott's leadership, and you can tell that this team was a leaderless team once Dak went down, and maybe that was the one piece that you needed to be the Philadelphia in Philly, right that was the one piece that you may have needed to be the Washington football team in Washington. Maybe that would have been the difference maker. All I'm saying like, if you take those pieces and say that, oh, one guy can't make the difference, well just switch over to

San Francisco. They had a whole lot of pieces. But then when they bring on the cornerback, your guy can't think his name and saved my life. Right now, play for Seattle went to Stanford, Come somebody else, Wilson, who are you talking about corner Richard Sherman, Thank you Sherman. Yeah, yeah, cornerback, Yes, the cornerback. He comes in and he solidifies that secondary mix. These guys up front plate to the scheme perfectly, and

then they're vaulted. They go to the super Bowl. So look, it's very important when you talk about bringing in veterans and guys that can make a difference. There are some guys out there can that can make a big difference on your team, especially in the locker room. But we keep missing on that thought hack, like we keep passing these dudes up and Demicans sue, Nope, we're good. Uh, we're good. You know what I'm saying, Like, come on, man,

like we're missing on like everybody. It's like Spinyada swings. They then they called Kyle, and Kyle says, yeah, go pick up po. You know what. Bo was never my guy. It was Hamperson Griffin that I told him I wanted to go sign and then that yeah, either we had balloons when yeah, the day after Griffin got signed. Yeah, that part that was a swing. That was a swing of a mess on the Talking Cowboys crew for sure.

Uh yeah, I mean that's what's frustrating. That's what's frustrating is because Tampa Bay goes and does this whole rebuild and they have all these guys. It's like, Oh, Antonio Brown's not gonna work out. Oh Gronk's not gonna be the same as what he was previously. You're going to talk through all of these guys and then all of a sudden, Oh my gosh, they're back to what they were and they're playing extremely well. Tom Brady's washed, No, he's not. Now he's leading you to a super Bowl.

That's what's frustrating. Wait about the whole thing. Why Wait I missed the first three minutes obviously, But were you're frustrated because Tampa Bay's in the Super Bowl? Yes, and the Cowboys have not had any kind of success. You had a one year turnaround, like with Tom Brady. I'm saying that's what's frustrating for me as a Cowboys fan, because I want that to happen. I'm not saying it's likely to happen. I'm not saying what Tampa Bay did was likely to happen, but I would like it to

happen for the Cowboys. Yeah, well, they just they plugged Michael Jordan in a quarterback, and it pretty much what happened like it's I mean, yeah, you can't compare him to anybody. Not. Here's the even I even debunked my own thing on Twitter yesterday. I said, you know, Aaron Rodgers, I've been saying for ten years, is the greatest I've ever seen. I know, after five minutes, the last five

minutes of the first half. No, because Rogers throws a pick, Brady gets that deep touchdown, You're like, oh, yeah, he's the goat. Let me, can I debunk what you even just said a moment ago and show you how this is No, this is good. No, this is proving to Rob's point. But I'm debunking even even the comparison he made.

How good were the Washington Wizards Whenever Michael Jordan went over there and you plugged Michael Jordan, actual Michael Jordan and put him on the Washington Wizards, they weren't going to the NBA Finals. Let me tell you that much. That's how special what Tom Brady is doing. Wasn't he wasn't Michael Jordan at that point. But that's what I'm saying, Araders never happened a lot of people didn't think this

was tom Brady before the season started, including myself. Did you see how sharp tom Brady was that first half. Let's just say quarter, first half, quarter to two the second half, all of those picks are not on him. But I'm just gonna say that. Okay, let's say this. Let's say this, with two minutes and twelve seconds left in the fourth quarter, met the the floor made a dumb, dumb, smart decision, so stupid to kick the field goal. But

you do that. You do that. You do that based off the fact that you have three timehouts and the two minute one. But everybody, but everybody in the world knows that Tom Brady is across from you and he is not gonna let you get the ball back exactly. Yeah, no, you can't. That's the greatness of tom Brady right there, and that's why he took the ball out of a Hall of Fame quarterbacks hands and then had lka defense. You go out there and stop the greatest quarterback that's

ever lit. That's to that point. He did do that. However, that Hall of Fame quarterback should have ran the ball in Oh yeah, oh, from the second down. I agree, Yes, completely. And he said after the game like he didn't necessarily run because he thought he was going to have another play at it, which I didn't understand that. You just run anyway, try to get himself to a closer. That's yeah, that's a b S. That's a b S. Yeah, that's one. He should have ran it in. He that's when every

quarterback's done it. Every quarterbacks throwing the ball across their body thinking that they could fit it in there when they literally just if they would have just lifted their eyes up half the dog on red sea in front of him, that's a walk in touchdown. He bade him a pre Paul would have walked him down. I'm just saying, didn't let him been close. Hey down, my boy. JPP might have got there, however, it would have been a mida because he had Yes, he only he only got

three fingers, Isaiah, would he might have missed with two? Isaiah. Not every not every quarterback in the NFL can run like you do, Okay, not every quarterback can get those legs moving and unhooked the trailer a little bit. Okay, you're you're a special break if you're played it. If you're played it, Kyle, I believe in you. I believe in you. Are you saying I could have running in for a touchdown for the NFC Championship game to go

to the SUPERB? All right, you would have one, probably, Yeah, you would have got you would have you would have pulled it. You would have dropped a couple of tens of a second, yeah, yeah, I would have told I would have put the body on the line a little bit. Yeah, and then getting care flighted back to the Green Bay Hospital. Yeah, no doubt about that. Let's go ahead and take our first break when we come back. We've got a Twitter on the or I guess not Twitter on the twenty.

This isn't the Draft show. It's a fans on the fifty question. We'll answer that about, Hey, what are we doing with the secondary and some of these offensive linemen that we have that could or could not be here in twenty twenty one, and then we'll talk about some of the important NFL dates to keep in mind when we come back. You're on Talking Cowboys, presented by Geico. There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why Selor pioneers ways to make lenses as unique as you.

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See att dot com slash for you for details. To talk in Cowboys onto the second segment here of talking Cowboys on this beautiful Monday. Kyle Yeomen's Rob Phillips Heck My Harrison Isaiah stand pack always presented by Geico and always if you're watching from home or you're cheering in the stands with or lenses, you can see every exciting play book, an appointment at your local or experts and

see what esselor can do for you. See more, do more, or as always on talking Cowboys, and let's go ahead and go into I've got one question here from fans and if you, hey, if you have questions for us in the periscope as well, throw it in the periscope and we can answer them from there as well. But I have one Twitter question forsome fans on the fifty fans on the fifty Chris Beam pushing the buttons in the back and doing a great job of doing so

as well. All right, This comes from Kenneth Skumo Junior on Fans on the fifty, and he asked, Shouldoby, Xavier Woods, Jordan Lewis do you think all three of these guys are gone this offseason? And then he asked a second question, I'll ask it here in just a moment about some free agent guys. But I want to start with the secondary Shodobe. We've got Woods and you've also got Jordan Lewis. All three are free agents this summer. I guess dot summer,

but I guess spring free agents right now. Really to get into these talks, but do you think all three of those guys are gone, and we've we've talked about it on this show before. Who would you bring back at this very moment. We'll start with you, Isaiah. I hate to say it depends, man, but it really depends on what you have out there that you can go

get in free agency. I think that you I would prefer to fall back on those guys and not necessarily lead with those guys that if that answers the question, I prefer to not bring any of them back. Maybe yeah, I prefer to not bring any of them back. I just leave it at that. So I'd rather go out there and see what I can get. Brings some new guys in with his new regime, and if I can't get all those guys that I really want, then I'll retain,

you know, retain the best one at each position. But I'm not I'm not necessarily a fan of you have any of them. Jordan Lewis. I like, I like some of the things that he does, but at the end of the year he kind of those dumb plays kind of proved why he shouldn't be here. M okay, Rob, I think a lot of it depends now on what dan Quinn thinks, and I go back to that interview

he did with PFF. We haven't talked to him yet, but he's he said, I've got to dive into personnel and see who we got and who fits, who we can really work with, you know, in so many words, I guess, And so to Isaiah's point, you know, the secondary as a whole just really struggled. You know, I thought I thought Jordan Lewis was the best of the group there. Um, I don't know what his free agent market might look like. I could see one of the

two corners of being back. I definitely could see a change at safety, um, based on the way the season went. And and that's a huge position in this scheme. If it's going to be more of like the zan Quinn schemes we've seen in the past, you got to have a free safety that can really cover and has a lot of range. So, um, I'd say I'd say one of the two corners, maybe I'll say Cheeto, say Cheeto back and and maybe you know that gives you Anthony

Brown one corner. Digs of course, and then maybe you go in the draft and you're looking free agency too to try to help yourself there. Hey, And I agree with you rob when you say it's going to be up to dan Quinn to make the decision. Look at the tape and based off of his evaluation. I would be shocked if Woods was back into Calitol uniform next year, and also a woozier being back Jordan Lewis just because of his skill set. And let's look, let's not also

understate the depth that they have. I mean, I believe it's it's Kennedy was one Robinson and I'm not talking about the the rookie rochon, so it's not Richard Robinson. It's not really a lot of depth there. Especially going towards the end of the year. I think I was looking at who is that? Who's this greatness that come from lad for So it's a you know, we have

to solidify our secondary. But again in the first segment, when we're talking about teams that can get pressure with just four down linement, you may be able to get away with some of those midlevel guys they're in free agency, or let's just say, if you do bring back a Cheeto and Lewis, a lot of these guys right now, they just got to test the market to see what's out there, and it may not be as favorable for them either, so they may end up, just by a

process of elimination, end up being back. When you talk about Lewis and Cheetah, yeah, I think I would flip a coin on the corners. I'd be fine with one of those two guys coming back, Jordan Lewis or Cheeto. I think both of them are pretty much right there, even in my thought process of how they would fit into a dan Quinn system. I'm fine with letting Xavier walk.

I'm fine trying to go find a safety. There's a couple of safeties in the second in the third round, like a treyvon mooreg out of TCU or Darius Washington also out of TCU. I mean there's some senior Bowl guys I'm looking at over the next three days that our safety said I'm interested in maybe picking up on day two or early day three. So I would probably

flip a coin on the corners. One of those two guys I would I would like to maybe keep just for debt purposes and because they started, because they know the system, they know the team, and they know the locker room. But yeah, I don't. I don't see multiple guys coming back. I really don't now. And another thing,

let me go for Kyle. Another thing you may want to check, you know, free agents coming from Atlanta, because yeah, you've we found that a lot of times when when coaches moved to other teams, they'll take their guys with them. We saw that last year with Malie Collins going to Las Vegas. So Kean O'Neill the free agent, and he's going to be a free agent of free safety for Atlanta.

He may be a guy that comes off get Jeff eat as well, you know, but they're just guys that travel with coaches and so we may have a little bit of that as well with guys signing onto the Cowboys roster, you know. And I'm glad you brought up that point because Atlanta didn't really have a ton of guys. Let's just talk about if you thought the Cowboys had a depth issue at safety, so did Atlanta. Atlanta also had that depth or not even at safety, but at corner,

defensive back or whatever. That secondary was depleted as well for the Falcons last year. And Rob brought up the point in the first segment about Dan Quinn and the scheme or talent over scheme, players over scheme in terms of evaluation and personnel, and I thought that was the case, and it's nice to hear him say that because I feel like that's kind of what we want here in Dallas. But at the same time, you look at what their draft history was a year ago. They could have very

easily taken Cede Lamb at number sixteen. Instead, they went with A. J. Teller's the corner out of Clemson because he ended up fitting a need and he was taking maybe forty picks too high. To my regard, I had Treyvon Diggs over AJ tell Or I think it was Teller. I keep saying. I think I might say his name wrong, but Terrell Terrell is his name last year. So AJ Terrell was the Clemson corner. I had Treyvon Diggs higher than AJ Terrell and they ended up picking him because

he fit a need. So Rob, do you think that's him saying that maybe based on his own thought process. I know he's not going to be a huge part in the draft process, but so was Rod Marinelli in the previous years. He don't necessarily want that kind of interaction costing you some picks. Well, I think number one, that's that's what Mike McCarthy has said when since he's

had the job, that's what you have to do. I think most coaches would say that too, that you had It's it's your responsibility to put the players in the best spots. So I think that's general coaching one on one in a way. But I think it is important. I do think. I think in this particular situation, it's kind of the it's kind of a good marriage because we talked about how they've played this scheme in one

form or another in the past. They know it can work with some of the players they have already, so there. I don't he's not coming in trying to reinvent the wheel, so I think the scheme in itself will probably fit the team better anyway. Um, But yeah, I think when we talked about he has worked in some other schemes, so I think he you know, he's got enough versatility where he can he can kind of mold things to

the players that that fit well. But I think overall, we're gonna see you know, we're gonna see a four three scheme here. We'll cover three all that good stuff. Isaiah. Yeah, I mean it's a role's point. I think he's I mean, he knows what he's doing and he knows the talent that he has. I know everything that I've seen from him, he's been able to get the most out of every player. I don't think that we have axtreme lack of talent. I think we have a streme lack of confidence. Uh

in guy's abilities. I think that you the guys that you currently have on a roster, I think you can get everything out of them and be a very productive defense. I really do. And now that doesn't take away from the fact that I think we still need some additional pieces. I think I definitely think we need some guys who

are better than what we currently have. But if you can't, if you had to go into next year with the current roster that you have on defense, you have the enough enough talent on the defensive line, at the linebacker position, in the secondary to get what you need out simply because of what we started out this this whole podcast talking about, which is the defensive line of Tampa Bay.

We have a solid defensive line here too. If guys are playing with confidence, if guys are playing with a scheme that highlights their abilities in their and their skill sets. So when you have a defense accordity that put you in a in a position to be successful, then all of a sudden, your game elevates. And I think that's what that's what coach Point is gonna be able to come in and do. Yeah, he just needs guys in a smart that are able to pick up this game.

And regardless of you know, what they played last year. You look at if you look around the league like we're making so much of three or four versus four three, what is your base? Teams play a variety of schemes and you just have to be able to pick it up up and execute. Jalen Smith too, is if I could just take out one person that had the worst twenty twenty just based off of the fact that he

didn't understand what he was doing. Nobody had play real time live with live AMMO out there not knowing what you're doing. So putting guys in the right this one thing. Just hold on, hold yeah, hold on, Haman, who me? You saw the film? Yeah, you watch them? Watch the film. Come on now, I watch the film. I watched the film. I just see guys missing, you know, missing the scheme

hadn't just settled with these guys. So look, defensively, whatever dan Quinn does, he knows that he's, you know, the sky. The own thing that he has is to go up right because of where they were. Confidence wise, like you said, Isaiah, confidence is shot right because all of these guys saw what happened to them in twenty twenty. You gotta build them up. But at the same time, if you're just gonna say I'm gonna get this guy and he's gonna be a plug and play guy, you may be setting

yourself up with disaster. Again. He's got to be a proven he got to be a guy that's shown you that he can make plays and not just based off of some reputation that you're going to give him. Yeah, and I think there's a bunch of guys like that either interchangeable, and I think the defense needs a complete overhaul. And so the fact that there's a couple of a couple of guys in the secondary that you could easily

do that for, I wouldn't be against doing so. Okay, second part of Kenneth Shumo's question was offensive linemen and defensive Lineman, any pieces to pick up in free agency that could potentially help this overhaul of the defense, Rob do you know of any names off the top of your head that the Cowboys could potentially be targeting? No, not stop my head. It's kind of early for that.

It did as well, they need to, I think I said earlier, you know, not to be repetitive, but I think dan Quinn has to figure out with who he has on the roster, who can fit with what he's trying to do, and or who can who he can really work with and build around. You know, I think I think on the offensive line, they're they're okay as long as they're as long as they're healthy. The biggest question to me is what do you do at the backup tackle spot? Because Cam Irving, I think is a

very solid veteran backup swing tackle. But can you afford that veteran player to be a backup in a cap situation year like this one? I don't know. And how do you feel about Brandon Knight and Terrence Steele? They got a lot of snaps this year. Did they show you enough? Um? You know, they might have to roll with one of those two guys this year? Depending on the way the cap breaks down. Um, and then obviously you know, defensive line, I think I think they've got

some pieces. I think you get Tristan hill Back. I think he fits that four three scheme. If that's mostly what they're gonna run, I think he fits it pretty good. You know, he's up the field, smaller penetrating defensive tackle. I think I think that fits what Rod Marinelli wanted and probably Dan Quinn too. So I think there are some pieces there. But the biggest questions on defense to me or in the secondary, because you have so many free agents and you really struggled there anyway from a

production standpoint. Yeah, Kyle, I just look at Yeah, the question is, you know, as far as free agency, anyone that we may be looking at. You have guys like Lennon Williams defensive lineman tackle for the Giants. You have Puna Ford one tech at Seattle, Jonathan Hankins from Las Vegas, a defensive tackle. You know, there are a bunch of guys that are going to be available. And we've also had seen the rumors with Daniel Jeremiah with NFL Network

saying that Piney Soul may fall to the Cowboys at ten. So, I mean that's very that's very interesting as to what you would do then with Smith in his contract, how does that move? I mean, he's pretty much he has an ironclad deal. Uh, it's from from the Cowboys. So

how does how do you approach that? And they have to start looking at it that way, because look, if it's just through injury that we're not gonna be able to have the stuff that we've had all these years, then we may have to start looking at moving on. How does Lell come back from the hip the lay room. There's there's so many things that are up in the air that we have to address. And I'm sorry, Tara, still thank you for stepping in, but I don't want

to see that next this year. I just don't, right, so that we don't have to pray Hail Mary every time he Keith straps up, because that's that's just what I can't do that hack ahead with that all right now? Bye bye? Then thank you, Yeah, thank you, thank you for your service. You know isam, But but I but I don't know, I don't know. Heck, how you draft anything other than defense at ten? I know that's yeah, I'm going you guys labeled me best of all, Like I,

I think you have to go need it. You cannot No, no, no, no, Rob, no, Pe, You're not gonna do that. M not on this show. So so, if if it was available, if Rob was going to continue his best player Available march where he is going down the street and he is marching to the beat of the druma best player available, he would pick Kyle Pitts, probably at ten, and you would pick Kyle Pitts at number ten overall. I don't know if

I'm a Kyle the heck do you do that? He may be in the Hall of Fame in fifteen years, but I just don't know how you do that? How do you say that? And not? If you if you love the tight end position Kelsey Kittle and you see what it does for other teams, how could you not? We just spent forty minutes talking about the defense and how do you text it? And so we got a tight end at ten. I'm hey, look, I'm just if we're gonna you, you shoved it down my throat BP A BPA, So don't change up on me now, Rob

Isaiah stand back. You are now the interim GM of the Dallas Cowboys Talking Cowboys Podcast. Okay, you're at number ten right now. You've got Kyle Pitts on the table. He's your sixth rated player overall at ten. Then you've got Caleb Farley on the table, he's your twelfth rated player overall. And Christian Barrowmore, who's number fifteen overall. Who do you take? Who do you pull the trigger on? Isaiah? Cowboys Nation is leaning upon you? Yeah, you didn't say,

was it a certain certain Yeah? He's lower than Farley? What's his name? That's what I'm getting. That's what I'm getting. Defense. Yeah, I would not if the tight end presents himself first. Yeah, I'm taking the tight end. I just gave you the scenario. I just gave you three players that you have. I know, I know, I'm taking a boyfriend, pitt the tight end,

the tight end. I'm just I'm just talking about Okay, I mean work across Kyle, Okay, okay, uh, But you take the tight end because you have ability to secure yet another position, even though you have some guys, even though you're ready to give it up some money right there. You have to rework some things. You have to get some trades off whatever you gotta do. But you have an opportunity to solidify young talent, solidify young talent, and

you're trying to surround your quarterback with young talent. Uh, I'm I'm he's a beast, So I mean you have to you have to lock that in, right. So, but I want a corner. If I'm a GM, I want a corner, and you need you need a shutdown corner. You either need a shut down corner or you need a corner that's really good that's gonna play well with with with digs, right, and then guess what. Then you gotta go out there and get you some safeties in free agency. But either way, I prefer to get a

secondary guy. Now. I don't want to just want a safety in the draft. I want a corner, a shutdown corner in the draft. And I'll go out there and I'll find me some free agents or some some young guys later on in a in a draft to solidify your safety position. Because once you once you lock up your secondary, your front seven, you have talent there, can you get the most out of them? Right now, you don't have talent in your secondary, No, you do not, and you need to find some salent in that secondary

as well. Now, the Cowboys did take a pretty premium pick at a secondary player last year in Trey Von Diggs. Where does he rank among the rookies on this Cowboys team. We're gonna talk about a rank them article that was posted on Dallas Cowboys dot com and give our insight on where we would rank the rookies. When we come back on Talking Cowboys presented by Geico, We're back in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor pepper and cream Soda. Let's take a listen,

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Kyle Yeoman's is like a symphony in your head. Wow, the sultry voice of Heck My Harrison as always, Rob Phillips, Isaiah stand back our residence, super Bowl Champion, I'm Kyle Yeoman's final couple minutes. And there was a rank OFM article Rob Phillips that was put on Dallas Cowboys dot com a little bit ago, but we didn't get a chance to talk about it last week, and I really kind of wanted to go through it. And somehow my voice is reverberating on my phone as I pull up

the Cowboys app. I mean, that's the beauty of live podcasting. So the rankum rookies picking the Cowboys top ten rookies of twenty twenteen. Before I go through kind of the the actual results of this, I want to hear who your top rookie was of twenty twenty. Isaiah. We'll start with you on that. No, let's go with that my first, because I know he would probably feel the pressure of this. But who was your top rookie of twenty twenty? And why,

oh wait, that is tough. Um golly, I'm gonna have to go Ceede Lamb And that's the that's the easy way out, man. And this is he came up big in games, and I really want to pick Trayvon Biggs, but yeah, Ceedee Lamb would would be it. I think he played above and beyond. I think those first four games with Dak you could tell man that he was just his trajectory was through the roof and the type

of season that he was about to have. But even with some of the substitutes, some of the other guys coming in, he still maintained has some key drops in games, but still Ceedee Lamb was a bright spot. All right, Isaiah, I'm torn on this one. I think CD is the easy answer. I think when you think about long term potential, in long term growth from this year, I I gotta go with Dicks. I was excuse me. I was hard on Dicks as he should have been hard on him.

I mean, but he faced the best NFL has to throw at him, hands down, and I think that as bad as it was for him this year, it's kind of like the big brother beating you up, and you come back the next year and guess what, everybody doesn't seem that bad. So I think that going into next year he will make leaps and bounds. But he needed to get that that whoop that boot this year first, had to get the trial by fire a little bit there. Absolutely, Yeah,

that's that's what That's what y'all said. Y'all say, throw him to the fire. So that's what happened. That's what exactly we did. So that's what happened. Yeah, Rob, who was your top rookie? I'd have to say CD. I know that's the easy answer. But he played every game and I think you saw Pro Bowl potential just like you expected when you drafted him. The numbers weren't the

best among the rookie class. Um he did play with four different quarterbacks, and he's also sharing a passing game with Amari Cooper who had ninety something catches, and Michael gallup so and Dalton Scholtz at sixty three about that, so, I thought, you know, he flashed some plays where you're like, wow, he could definitely be a star in this league. And I think Diggs did too, but he missed think he missed a month and he did give up some big plays.

I think though, when you look at the class overall, it looks promising, especially with maybe four out of the of the class, looks looks really promising, if not Pro bowlers, then starters. It was funny whenever Nick Eatman asked me for my list of rookies to go through Rob, I actually left Ceedee Lamb completely off the list because I don't really look at him as a rookie. I really don't like the way that he played. It didn't remind

me of a rookie. I know it was his rookie year, and he played very well, and I mean there were times where hey, look, they're Ceedee Lamb, the rookie that's not gonna happen in two or three years hopefully. But I mean Ultimately, I think he had a good enough season to where he was by far the top rookie that the Cowboys drafted last year, as you expect him

to be a first round pick. And also not to mention, I think if you put him into the different situation, like if you flip flop Justin Jefferson and Ceedee Lamb, I think Ceedee Lamb has the same kind of season, maybe even better than what Justin Jefferson did, just based off of the situations in which they are. And it wasn't perfect. I mean there's some key drops that you add, especially late in the game against the Giants. So but

he's man. He is really hard on himself. You talked to him after those kind of plays, and he I think he's gonna be better for it, just like Isaiah said about Diggs, I think he's gonna come back stronger and try to write some of that stuff. So the top three players on this rank of article, I'll get to you here and just second, Isaiah, I'll say this real quickly. Ceedee Lamb was number one, Trayvon Diggs was number two, and Neville Gallimore was number three. That's really simple,

and it's really easy because guess what rounds. Those guys were picked in the first round, the second round, and the third round, respectively. So that's what you expect, and that's a good draft clash. If you can hit on your Day one and Day two picks like the Cowboys did to where they had a rookie impact from all three of those guys, that's pretty impressive. I say what

you got. No, I was just gonna ask you if you hit now that you have the first year behind you, if you had opportunity to swap picks Justin Jefferson or a Ceedee Lamb, who are you going with? Ceedee Lamb? Still I would still pick Ceedee Lamb? Do you would you not? I would still picked Lamb? Oh? There it is. I mean CD's a beast. That's that's not Let me let me put this out there before before I get destroyed. Ceed's a dog. Justin as a dog. They're both dogs.

They're out, that's out the way. They're both dogs, all right. One one is a is a is a pit bull. Right one is a freaking mountain lion. I don't know, I don't know. He's something some kind of cattle, but but he's a big old bear. Wolf right, So justin Jefferson is nasty, He's his route running is nasty. CD CD lamb route running is cool too. But I think I think Jefferson got a little bit more juice. So I don't know, they're both dogs. Don't don't. Don't don't.

I don't want nobody to think that I'm I'm I'm pooping on CD. CD's a dog. But I just just throwing it out there, just throwing it out there. If you had opportunity to swap it, would you would you remain with your draft pick? Would you be alone there? I kind of think you'd be alone. You kind of poo pooed right there are soooo a little bit you know, But I'm justin Jefferson. He showed something, man, I mean,

just yah was exceptional. Yeah, and again he had his like you said, he had his quarterback for the entirety of the season, and if CD in those first four games, everybody was talking about CD was starting to whisper about him being Rookie of the Year. But then quarterback goes down and all of that change. And so I mean, it's just you can go into ifs and butts on that whole thing. If if if CD has his quarterback for the entire year. But that's a that's a fair

question between and Jefferson and CD. So what's your pick. I'm still going to CD. I'm not gonna jump in a barrel with two. I go CD just because I didn't see. You know, I saw the one game with George Jefferson. I'm Jefferson. I didn't I didn't see enough of his games, but I know what the production was definitely there. I just think CD with a full season with Dak, I really want to see what that looks like. Oh god, I think he's got a chance to be

really special. For getting me excited over here, Rob don't do that all right. So after the first three picks, uh, this is kind of the interesting part about this rank of article. The next two are really interesting to me because you go first round, second round, third round with Lamb Digs Gallimore, and then you go to Terrence Steele. He's the number four rookie of twenty twenty for the

Dallas Cowboy. He's number five is Hunter Nice Wanders. So those two guys, who, I guess even when you started the season one, you didn't either expect him to make the roster or they actually weren't on the roster and hundred nice Wanders case, but I mean both of them came in played exceptionally well. In one case, I thought one hundred nice Wander was the better punter of Chris Jones and hundred nice Wander, and I want to see

nice Wander in twenty twenty one. But then you had Terren Steele, who was definitely thrown into the fire much like Treyvon Diggs was early on. But you saw a lot of improvement from Terrence Steele. So, Isaiah, what do you think about number four and number five on this list of the top rookies of twenty twenty. I'm going I'm going nice Wander, Yeah, Terrence Steele and Nbati can Beotis just wasn't out there enough, okay, but nice nice Wander, right,

Nice Wander right? Uh, the boy was nice nice. I know punters don't get the respect, but being a being a former special teams guy, hey, I held this dude in high regard. Um he came in and he was booting that thing. He was changing the field of possession so drastically. He was putting that thing all the way

inside the ten yard line. Consistently, he was giving our gunners the opportunity to down that thing inside the ten, inside the five on a normal basis, to the point where we were getting used to it, like it was almost expected. Like what what do you mean? What do you mean you kicked it out of bounds? What do you mean you kicked a touchback? What is that? Like? You're almost just disgusted that he wasn't putting it inside the five yard line? How dare you? Nice wander? Uh So,

I think I think he definitely is number four. And then tea steel he got thrown in there, you know, to to the to the flames. That boy was in there with the in the lions den and he had to fight, you had to fight scratched claw and yeah, I hold I have a lot of respect for him for being in there and and battling it out and

staying consistent out there. Um and then you know, be honest, came in and had had a big impact when he was there, but for whatever reason, he still just couldn't edge out edge out loaning rother Okay, uh, I like, you know, nice one that did a really good job, built us out of a lot of situations, and you know, obviously Isaiah took all of the superlatives away with his take on and uh, I felt, you know, I'm gonna go with I'm gonna say beyondish instead of still simply

because of his impact and we've been looking for we needed that that juice from the rookie and he came in and he provided it. Now, he had a weird injury where he straining his hamstring and warm ups. Never heard of offensive linemen straining hamstring and warm ups, but he accomplished that, So that just moves him up on

the list just because he was able to do that. Look, Terence still to me just had him just undrafted free agent, you know, I mean, look angels in the outfield story for him if he goes to the Hall of Fame. I just felt as though he had a really rough

rookie season. Yeah, yeah, I'm heck you and I agree on this because I think I think he showed he's one of what four potential starters in the rookie class so far if you want to count Nice wonder Actually Nick kind of cooked the books on this a little bit, Like I don't think technically Nice Wonders not a not a rookie. But I don't know why that's the case,

because he because he kicked in the XFL. I guess that makes you a pro vet so but yeah, I mean, I think nice Wonder has a definitely has a chance to keep the job. I think they really liked what he did. Um, but I you know, Beyondest certainly very well could be your starting center next year. Joe Looney's a free agent. Kind of goes back to what I said about the tackle depth. What can you spend on

your tackle depth this year? You know, maybe it may not work out for Looney to come back this year, and you might go to your rookie guy Um along with Diggs and and cd and and Gallimore who emerged as a starter as well. I fully expect Tyler beyond

I should be the starter next year. I think the only reason he didn't come back in after his injury was one just to make sure the injury was fully healed going into next season, and then also to keep a little bit of the continuity on that offensive line that Mike McCarthy had so very highly coveted throughout the season.

Closing out the rest of the top ten, Sean McKeon was number seven, the tight end out of Michigan who was an undrafted free agent and came in as a blocker and really did a pretty nice job on some of those heavy packages. Ben de Nucci was number eight. Of course, he filled in on a couple of occasions and most notably the disaster up in Philadelphia. Number nine was Francis Bernard, the undrafted free agent linebacker out of Utah,

in which I really wanted to see more of. And then Rico Dawdle closed out the top ten, the running back out of South Carolina who was also an undrafted free agent. The guy's not making the list Bradley and I. We've tried, guys, really yes, and one hundred percent hurts and I'm we tried every week. It was a plead to the coaching staff to please see Bradley and I a little bit more. Randy Gregory coming back really hurt that, but I guess it's fine whatever. I'm a little salty,

but it's cool. Reggie Robinson did not make the list either, and that doesn't surprise me either. He was really undersung his entire rookie season than Rondelle Carter, who wasn't even on the team, he was picked up as an undrafted free agent, then he was released, went to the Colts, then he was released, and then he came back, and then he was on the team to end the year. So Rondell Carter was also not on the list. But that's gonna do it for us here on Talking Cowboys.

Thanks for joining us here over the last our special thanks as always to Chris Beam and Aaron Gonzalez in the back. I saw him back there on the webax a little bit earlier, but for Heck Harrison, for Rob Phillipson, for Isaiah stand Back, I'm Kyle Yeoman's be sure to catch us next Monday, eleven thirty next time here on Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.