Talkin' Cowboys: Best NFC East Rivalry?

all our questions in before Mickey comes rolling in? Start playing the game. Just start playing right now, because he doesn't want to play. Mickey hates my games. I'm sorry, Mickey hates my game. I just you know, I think it's fun. I think you try and you know, not holding anybody all to this, you just kind of give an opinion on it and move on. Yeah. Yeah, we'll do that. We'll do a little bit of that and uh, at some point that chair will be filled. Right now

it's empty. Oh and there he is. Yeah, Yeah, a grand interest Kit Garrison next door producing as always, and uh, it's a practice day for your Dallas Cowboys Yeah, on a Wednesday. It's also Redskins Week. When did you write that book on the Redskins Mickey uh nineteen ninety seven, ninety seven, Yeah, matchups. She did something like that. We did twenty best games in Cowboy Redskin history, ten for each ten wins for each team. Wow. Okay, but you

did the research. Didn't you interview the guy one time? When we were at Valley Ranch, we interviewed the guy you wrote. You co wrote that with Ravil. Yeah, he's a Washington Post guy. He was a Washington Times guy. Of course, the way newspapers have gone, he's been long gone from there also, So the Redskins seem to be trying to revive the rivalry. From what I've seen this is they've already put a big banner when you walk into their practice facility, and it's got big bold letters

and it says Cowboys Week. And that's what it used to be called in the seventies and eighties, Georgia Allen. And now they're they're doing a promotion because they haven't had a sellout at that stadium in like forever, and so they're trying to sell it out. So they're doing a promotion out there if you have some sort of mean tweet or something you get for free tickets, and they're going to have a concert outside beforehand with some country band called low Cash all capital letters, by the way,

and then they're tweeting out hashtag beat Cowboys. It's Burgundy week, by the way, so the Cowboys better any week. This is Redskins week here, By golly, you know, I have a big deal around here. You know. It's Nikki's right. Though you watched their tape. There's a lot of yellow seats when you would see those home games. You know what they did too, is they took out that upper depth. They didn't block it off. They took the seats out, yea.

And they were gonna sell standing room on the kind of way the Cowboys had, right, But there's they are at the top of the stadium. And I don't know if they ever did it, because I would be scared to stand up there. You know. It's funny about that game, though, when you when I used to make the trips with you guys, that it always seemed like there were a lot of Cowboy fans at TESK games. Oh yeah, I mean I mean that I went back and watched the Romo passed to de Marco Murray and the crowd, you know,

the fourth down play. The crowd was incredibly loud, and then when Murray scored, it was like, oh yeah, it was like a home game. I mean, I remember standing on the side. I forgot because we were all at the one We were all at one end of the field. Murray had scored at the far end, the far corner, and that was one of those disastrous Oh you try and run a play and you lose ten you know what, it's a second or fourth and gold on the you

know whatever, it's not on the goal line. And so but we were I just remember how the crowd reacted, and then I went back and watched it again. O'm my gosh, I forgot how I remembered, and I forgot, then I remembered again. I'm like, man, there's a lot of cowboy fans that show up there at that that FedEx field. I've been doing this show in some capacity, starting with the kids table since like oh four, hey,

I shot since the inception. Huh. I saw a show last night and they had some guy helping out with whatever the lead guy was, and the girl was at the kids table. Yeah, it was in a different spot. It's look ridiculous as I did back then. You look ridiculous,

she had. I went back and watched a little those shows you get you found those, Oh no, that you can get them YouTube is the great great time had her own booth was raised up high, and who's ever hosting the deal was standing up and then they would have a guest and the guests would come walking up onto the stage. Yeah. I was in this like dark corner anyway, but it made me think of the kids table. Yeah, it was a kids table, and like it's been this

way since we started the show. Like, there's a lot of people that call in and email us from Maryland. Oh yeah, Virginia, NEBBI and Silver Spring, Upper Marlborough, Maryland. Right. I don't know if it's rebellion against your parents, two Redskins fans or what, but there's a lot of Cowboys fans. I'll give you two reasons. One, when the Cowboys and tech Shram were developing their radio network, he bought us.

He got a station on their network in Virginia, beat Virginia and so people got a chance to hear that the Cowboy games all the time, right, and they developed fans. The second thing that happened was when Lyndon Johnson took office as the vice president and then became the president after Kennedy was assassinated, all these people from Texas had to come and walk in Washington, DC. Right, So it was like a bunch of Cowboy fans were implanted in Washington, DC.

You know, some of them might have stayed, some of them developed friendships, and they became Cowboy fans. So that's kind of how it started back in as early as nineteen sixty when they first started. It's it's it's always been fascinating to me too that they've Even when they realignment, when all that was going on there, the Cowboys were just adamant about not moving. They're like, no, we're gonna We're still gonna play Philadelphia, New York, Washington, your major cities.

I mean they're playing in the nation's capital, right exactly. I mean everybody's like, oh, we want to be closer geographical locations, rivals. Yeah. Dallas is like no, no, we're gonna keep playing the red Skins. We're gonna keep playing the Giants from keep playing the Eagles, And actually, I mean, when you think about a comfort standpoint, logistically, those are long road trips. Sure, it's actually harder on you than it. Yes,

if you're going to Arizona. Back of the day they got rid of stay Saint Louis and then Saint Louis goes to Arizona and they're like, yeah, they're gonna We're gonna put them in the West. Okay, fine, there was no fight to move from Saint Louis. You know, that was no fight, and but yeah they'll fight you on. You know, it's important for the Cowboys to have that that that presence in that part of the country. I think it's a shame though that I bet majority of

these people on the team now have no idea. No, they don't what it used to be like, what it used to be like, or what it is like. Still with the fans in Washington, Yeah, they still get fired up and they still hate the Cowboys and they're still

that you know. It was I don't know, several years ago, uh Keller and I were out in Georgetown and we were watching a game on I think they were playing a Monday night game, so where we were somewhere watching a game on Sunday night, and there was some guy there and he found out where what we did and everything, and he still was bitter about the Clint Longley game on Thanksgiving. Said he goes, I couldn't eat my Thanksgiving dinner. I was sick to my and he was probably at

that time a teenager. Right seventy four run my Thanksgiving and he was still bitter. Biggest mistake you've ever made as a sports fan? Oh yeah, leave. I was eleven years old. My my, my family had tickets. Like I said, my I went with the game with my grandmother and left the game early. When when Staubach got knocked out, we went to the Morton's food and we're in the restaurant business. My family and went to Morton's Foods had a bus that used to take us and drop us

off right next to the gate. So as part of buying their product, we got to ride this bus every home game. Great service, and so you know, we left early. My grandmother and I were sitting in the bus and nobody's in the bus and everybody comes storming on. Everybody's yelling, cheering all I'm like, well what happened? And the bus didn't leave the game was a bus. It was a it was a it was a city a Dallas City bus, one of those Dallas City bus, not the yellow ones.

But remember the old back way had to sit there like green and oh yeah, okay. So they had this bus and Morten's Food had a bar on it and food and all that. So all the people that they you know, that bought product from them, got to ride this bus and these people came back. I'll never forget that, eleven years old, sitting there and those people we won. They put Clint Longley in and he threw and I looked at my grandmother and she says, I'm so sorry, and I'm like, from that point on, I never left

a sporting event early. I mean traffic, no matter what I'm not, I'm just not going to do it because because of that that right there, eleven here. I'm fifty four years old now and I remember that like it was yesterday. But you know, I was going to ask you guys, you know, as far as NFC sports hate rivals, what what what an NFC East team do you disliked the most sports hate? Sports hate? Of the three options the three Giants, Eagles or Redskins. Yeah, man, see Mickey

brought up. And the reason why I want to ask, because Mickey brought up that point of See, I grew up not liking the Redskins at all because we we being a fan, owned the Eagles, we owned the Giants. The Redskins were a whole different thing. So I wonder if sports hate the older crowd still hates the Redskins, but then the younger crowd is like Eagles. I'm sure

that's what it is. Yeah, And you know, and the reason it started was, you know, even though the Cowboys were bad when they first began in the sixties, the Redskins were as bad, right, And they didn't get good until the early seventies, George George Allen, And so all of a sudden, the Redskins were taken away something that I think the Cowboys thought was there inalienable right to win the NFC East every year, right, And they beat him a couple of years, then they beat him the

playoffs that one year, and then this thing really cranked up. Yeah, you know, before it was just kind of a fan thing, and then it became a player thing personal and think about it. You had the same players playing each other twice a year forever there was no free agency. So you played the same guys ten years. You go and

go ask Roger Staubuck. He'll still get fired up. Yeah, he'll still get mad about them knocking out of the knocking him out of that seventy four Thanksgiving game because they said they were going to do it, and they did it and said, you know, that's all we got

to do because that's all they got and we'll beat them. Yeah, the league encouraged you to talk poorly about the other team and try and knock their players out wrestling, and then and then we get the Bounty Bowls and stuff like that, where well we don't we shouldn't go out, we should be hunting players, you know. But back then, I mean, yeah, the newspaper guys, the stories back and

forth between Washington and Dawson. They didn't have ESPN and all these people that interviews Mike's and to face me, what you were hearing was what you were reading. You know, that's that's what you saw. Yeah, that's and and and actually you know that. And tonight, by the way, we'll get into it because our guest on the Legend Shows is Dennis Thurman, who was right in the middle of the deal in the late seventies and through the eighties, and you know, and in eighty five they became Thurman's

Thieves because they had so many interceptions. While the first game of the year, the opener was against Washington on a Sunday night, on Monday night game, and it was Joe Theisman's birthday, and they picked him I think it was either four or five times, and by time the fifth pick and they took him out, the whole place stood up and started singing Happy Birthday, and they would call him Joey. It wasn't Joe, it was Happy Birthday, Joey. And it was amazing. And I'm sure Dennis remembers that

I had to be back in the day. I love, I love back in the day. You know. The fun thing was back then covering those games at RFK is you place moved you it takes you could take the metro, yeah, and it would drop you off like two two and a half three blocks from the stadium. So you're walking through all the crowd and they're getting jacked up for the game and they're selling their Cowboys suck t shirts. And also there was some with not an s in Fan of the uc K and and it was just unbelievable.

It was like you got as a writer, you got ready for the game. It's like, oh, something really important is getting ready to have absolutely and I think you nailed it. Because roster turnover, the parody now, the salary cap, the roster's changed so much that there's not that contempt bread by a familiarity. Yeah, you don't have the John Riggins and Joe Thismans and Art Monks. And then way back in the day, you know, like the Jack Parties and the pat Fishers, and I mean these are all

guys I grew up just despising. I really, I mean I see those guys. I see Sonny Jurgensen, like you know, he was I don't know, I think he's still doing the games. I think I think he is. See Sonny said some him to press box one time in Buffalo, and I went up to him. I said, mister Jergors, introduced myself. He's, oh, yeah, he has cigar hanging out of the core of his mouth. And and I just sat there for like thirty minutes. We're talking about the rivalry.

And he was telling stories that were just you know, and again. I know fans today are kind of going on, shut up, brought us. But for a kid growing up in that era, you know, it's like the guy who's grows up in New York City, that's a Yankee fan that gets to talk to Mickey Maniler, gets to talk to Whitey Ford, or gets to talk to those great you know players back then. I mean that that's that's how I grew up. That's how I got, you know, into involved with football because the rivalries with the red

Skins and like that. Here's how it's changed. I know, because since I've started covering this team, the closest thing I can think of to a really bitter rivalry within the division. And tell me if I'm wrong, maybe ten years ago with the Giants with Brandon Jacobs and you know he would he would talk every week and try to get Craton and those guys fired up. That's the closest thing I can think of. And now it's kind of maybe it's shift into Philly, and with Philly it's

it's about their fans as much as anything. Yeah, you know, see I that I worked for a year. I kind of appreciate the Philly fan because I lived there. For a year and worked. They're great fans, but they're not you know, yeah take oh no, yeah, no exactly. It's it's tough, but my my sports hatred for Washington Redskins

is still intense. It still is intense, you know, even I mean I again, I when when we I wish we still played at that old RFK because that those I missed, those places I missed seeing I would probably go on road trips if we still played at places like that, I really would. Now. Mickey will tell you he had to hide around a corner to look through a little uh to watch a game. He got thrown outside and he had to look through a little narrow crack to see the field. Am I right about that? Mickey? No?

That actually that was in Saint Louis, Okay, well I thought it was at URFK. The press box was basically open air. We was covered by the overhang of the stands, but it was open air. So if it was twenty degrees outside, you're sitting out there, it's really hard to

type with gloves on it. And then you would go in this little room where they'd serve you food before the game halftime, and the heat would be on to like ninety five degrees, so to choose your poison, freeze or sweat to death while you were writing, and there was no room there. I remember vividly when they won their one game in nineteen eighty nine. It was the ninth game of the season. They were eight no or

were they and eight or oh and nine? And it was a Sunday night game for some god forsaken reason. And I was sitting it was so crowded in the press box. I had to sit like sideways with my left shoulder forward because Blackie Sharade was next to me and he was basically in my lap and it was like he was going to move, and it was like one of those folding chairs, one of those wooden folding chairs they used to have at the VFWA, you know.

And it was like, seriously, then your doome is kind of like that, but that sounds worse, and you know what, And I got to give Skip Bayless credit. He came up with the greatest name for rfk rickety field for knuckleheads. That's it. Wow, And Edie was right, it was right. Those people were crazy. So you're saying sportswriters were tougher back in the day too, Yes, they were. It was a tougher time. The carrier typewriter, Yeah, your typewriter stairs,

no email to file your story over the phone. Gary Myers almost gotten the fight over a telephone one time, right, it was, it was. It was quite an experience. You know, when you're going through it, you look at it as a hardship. Yeah, when you think back, when you go, that was pretty damn cool. I missed those days. I mean I would if I was that. If I was, I would have missed those days of like, you know,

kind of just getting in the middle of everybody. I got My favorite movie is eight min Out, you know, great movie, and so like riding the train with the players and drinking and smoking guard. Yeah, you know, I've got a book of stories. But the two that stand out the most had to do with Harvey Martin. Yeah, they were playing they were playing up there one year and he had to go through the dugout to go into the locker room, so you had to you were

really close to the fans. And uh before the week before the week of one of the games they were playing at RFK, story came out that Harvey had to file for bankruptcy, right, So he tells me the story that he goes, Yeah, he goes, after the game, you know, we we got beat and oh no, he goes, I was going in after warmups and he goes, I'm going into the dugout and all of a sudden, I hear this. Something's hit me in the helmet. He's like pin pin pain.

And they were throwing like coins at him, and some guy yells out, hey, Harve, do you need a loan? And they were throwing them change. And one year they were going in after the game they won and somebody cracked a bottle over I don't I think it was Charlie waters helmet and Randy White was walking with him, Harvey and Cliff and and and and Randy or or Harvey looked and says, all right, let's go, and they went into the stands and beat the snot out of

the guy. Way. Yeah. That last, real quick Harvey Martin story is there was someone put a wreath and he and he opened the Redskins dressing room door and through the reef. It's like a funeral. They sent it. They sent it to him. It was seventy nine and it was the game here at Texas Stadium and Thomas the winner was going to win the NFC East, the loser

was not going to make the playoffs. And about midweek, this wreath, it was a funeral which shows up at their practice facility and it has a sign on there you know, your cowboys, you're dead or whatever something like that. So they kept it and and and on Saturday, somebody said, Harve, what are you gonna do with that? He goes, I don't know, And he goes, why don't you bring it with you? Yeah, you know, bring it to the stadium. So they had it in the locker room. And they won.

And there's a picture of Harvey in his uniform carrying the wreath and he's going up the tunnel at Texas Stadium where the visitors were and a lot of the guys didn't even know where that tunnel was. I had no idea. And he opens the door and throws it in there, and it's like, take that, we're not dead. And they were in the middle, they were all kneeling in the middle of their postgame prayer those days. Yeah,

that's WW style, and you know, bring that back. One of the reporters at the Washington Post I don't know. I don't know if it was. Weeks later, years later, researched it and found out that it was really a Cowboy fan that purchased the wreath and sent it to him as incentive. And when I told Harvey about the story I found he goes, I don't believe that. I know it was a Redskins fan. Seth Now, sports hate, sports hate. There's nothing like good sports hate. Gotta love

sports hate. We'll try to try to rekindle that a little bit today. That's good on the screen there. Yeah, you gonna look, can't your great shop? Kn't wait to go if you're watching along in with us today, and I hope maybe if you're listening, go back and lugas. But Kent's got it, get it right there. I wish I would. I didn't know we'd get into blue dot com for that. Yeah, I could have brought my book down because we have a black and white picture of

that in the book. Could get bring it tomorrow or Friday. Okay, well we'll get We'll do it fan Friday. Yeah, that's a good idea, all right. By the way, eight five five two two ninety seven is the nut joy that kind of talk. I'm love it. Driving folks nuts. No, that's I relived a little bit there. Get everybody fired up for this rival rekindled this week this Sunday ports hate the Redskins. Hey, a lot of fans out there doing, a lot of fans probably up there in Redskins country.

Yeah as well. So all right, Brian, you got some tough questions for us, some questions. I don't know if they're tough. I got some questions. All right. We'll get to those out of the break, and before we get out of here of the next hour, we will talk a little bit about this Redskins defense, a challenge they present the Dallas offense. But we'll get to Brian's tough questions next. On talking cowboys or has been helping Cowboys fans seed better since nineteen seventy two, said they don't

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got that one coming up too, I know. And you know where. I left it on my desk after I went to the trouble of getting it, printing it, laminating it, and then I left it on my desk. That's okay, man, Tomorrow's right there with you. I like it when you wing it anyway. All right, Welcome back to Talking Cowboys inside the SWBC Mortgage Studio. We're here for the next thirty odd minutes. Cowboys returned to practice today. Jason Garrett will be live at ten thirty five Central Time right

after this show. But as we start segment, to Brian, you got a little game for us today. I always like to ask a few questions and as Mickey always asked Mandy to answer the question as well, and that's important and I do agree with him on that. And my first question for you guys are are you surprised how smoothly the defense has played without Shawn Lee? Yes, I thought they were better prepared to absorb his loss.

But I was worried, not so much from a talent standpoint, because I think we kind of got a taste of what Jalen Smith was going to be this year. Wasn't totally sold in the beginning on Layton Vander esh figured he'd need some time, sure, but I was worried more about how organized they would be. Who would be the guy that gets right now and you know, and diagnosed the plays. And surprisingly Vanders seems to diagnose plays. He's got some of that, and Sean Lee's sense out there

does so. Yeah, I think that I think they've absorbed as loss better than I expected, seeing that they lost ten of eleven over the previous three years when either he didn't play or didn't finish a game because of injury. I would I'm surprised at how they really haven't seemed to miss a beat. It's gonna answer Mickey by the way, thank you. Yeah, I'm not that surprised that they've still been able to function well, but the level they've continued

to play at has been surprised. Yeah, because they I mean, this was a dominant effort last week. And really, I mean when you look at the numbers what they're doing, it seems like they mean better. Yes, I mean not not without but the things that we thought that were like okay, this, like Mickey said, instinctually, how are things gonna go? Are they gonna be able to communicate? Are they going to be able to line up. Are they going to be able to make plays? It seems like

every week that they've gotten better. And I don't think it's lack of Sean Lee. I just think the I think the linebackers have gotten better. Yeah. I didn't worry as much as some people did about the communication part of it, because Jalen Smith's been in this defense a couple of years now, even when he wasn't playing, He's been around it. Uh, You've got Chris Rashard, who's a good coach as that passing game coordinator to kind of

marry the back end with the front seven. Um. But vander Esh is the one who surprised me the most. And I know we talked about this a little bit yesterday. I didn't think he would be this good this early game time that he missed in preseason. Yeah, and he's been outstanding. We were talking about that last night at happy Hour. Yeah that that Okay, that if with vander Esh with time he missed in the OTA's and then into training camp, you're thinking, oh, is this a setback?

Is this going to be a huge setback? But I totally agree with what you guys are saying there. I was just I was like Mickey, I was worried about, Okay, who is going to hold things together? Remember I was the one screaming for a trade for Earl Thomas because I was worried with Shawn Lee going out, who was going to hold the defense together? You know, I was thinking, Okay, if you got Earl Thomas, then Earl Thomas can be the glue of Shawn Lee somehow misses three games, Who's

going to be the glue? Little did I know? The glue has been the play of them. It hasn't been the leadership. It's been the It's been the play of the front seven. It's been the play of the secondary. You know, the way they've been able to hold up. So yeah, I I you know, I count me? Is count me? A surprise? It's gone as smoothly as it has and the overall talent on the defense is better than it was last year. These guys from last year,

the rookies are a year older. Yeah, this is the deepest defensive line now that I can remember, since Rod has been the defensive coordinator. And it should only get better as long as David Irving is on the field and engaged and all that stuff. Probably gonna miss today, right, we're gonna get a David. You know what he said. He said after the game that he thought he would get back here in time for practice. Okay, so this

is a local, yes, local, Yeah, we're doing that. And he said something about thank you judge for working early, first thing in the morning, like eight or nine o'clock, and so he thought he'd be here. He said it in the locker room after the game, that judge who knows, because you know how courts go. Yeah, astins get delayed their own spend, yes, you know. And one other thing on this leadership thing for you to the next one. I think a guy that has somewhat emerged has been

Jeff Heath. Yeah, that's that's a good point too. He seems to kind of be calming back, calming, not not a raw, raw guy, but just kind of knowing what's going on and helping those other young guys out. Uh. And even in the locker room, you know, he's been a little bit well, people have asked him question but he's more outspoken, like he'll he's a quiet guy. He'll give you some information, but he's quiet. Yeah. That tackle he made last Sunday, Holy Kyle, he will make some place. Okay.

My next question for you guys is the player that has been quiet early but is due to break out in the second half. Here you have somebody mind that has been a little quiet and then all of a sudden though you're feeling like, Okay, this guy's gonna have that to you know, carry you through a few games. You're chuckling, Mick. I know because it's the same answer I come up with every week, is that this guy

is gonna bust out. And it's Michael Gackael Gallop. I was kind of thinking you were going to go that direction, but you know, Gallup, if he gets the chance, That's what I'm saying. I keep asking, and Mickey, I see you keep asking him, asking in you know the audience. Hey, give him a chance, give him a chance, and I'm waiting for him to be that guy. I think I agree with Mickey again. I think he's the guy that needs to be the I think he needs to be.

You know, take it to him a little more, just just go ahead and trust him a little more trying. You know, you get it. You get him going early in that game, and I'm sure someone will say, well, broad us. He ran the route, it clanged off his hands, you know, da da da da da. I get that, But I'm I just think there's too much talent there. Yeah, I just think there's too much talent there. Yeah. Let me ask you this what we've seen about. How about Taco?

I mean, it's a tough matchup this week against Trent Williams, let's not. I mean, and when we get into that, when the Redskins offense, it's not could be easy for him to have to do. But what about a guy like Taco He's won The guy MALIEK. Collins. I was gonna go with Malik's second got his first sack last week. Now he plays if he's playing Darwin, he's playing the nose. Yeah. If Malik's playing the nose, you know, the numbers are harder to get to. I think then you're playing that undertackle.

The guy I was gonna say is Randy Gregory. If you look what he's done the last two games. I think he had forty snap about this yesterday he had five quarterback pressures in there. Then he only plays seventeen snaps last week with you know, kind of a knee issue. Yeah, and gets his first sack and is around the ball more and is kind of playing through stuff. Uh, he showed them something the last couple of games. Now can he continue to be consistent with it? But that is

encouraging these last couple of games that he's played. You're still you're you're You're with your receiver, though, Mickey, I'm gonna stay with him. I don't. I don't disagree with you, dude. I think he's the dude, he's the most first time I've ever knew he's Uh, he might be the most explosive receiver on this team, just in terms of pure

ability to separate down the field. You know, the previous game you mentioned Houston, he had four solo tackles, three assisted tackles, so seven total, Brandy, you're talking about here, five quarterback pressures five and this this last game, I don't have it, but he played seventeen snaps and had you know, oh no, he couples. I was confusing and with Irving, he had three tackles, two for loss, he had the sack, and he had three or four quarterback hits,

So not bad for seventeen snaps. I was just kind of thinking like him. I think it was gonna be one of those defensive ends him. Taco. Maybe, like you said, David Irving, you know you could be a part of that. You know who's starting the flash in more plays is Xavier Woods. And because there you go, because that was an overthrow and he's basically thrown up for grabs, I don't disagree he's start. You're starting to see twenty five

closer to the ball, especially when the ball's going downfield. Yeah, he got he's he's he's funny. He's taking that Houston game kind of clicks something for him. As far as taking a run at some of those offensive players. You know that with Watson's running the sidelines, he's running over there. He banged, he's banging in the guys stuff. I was thinking, oh, okay, something's happened here. You're Christopher Shard said something to him. Got him kind of going. Now now he's trying to

he's trying to light some people up. He got that big hit in the game and got a penalty. I don't know how. I don't know how you avoid that penalty because either let him catch it or you or you or you get the penalty. Can't let him catch it, for sure, so okay, you got a time for another one, right, Yeah, I'll do it. Um described Connor williams rookie season in

one word else can I say mine ahead? I went the word encouraging, okay, And I know and I went encouraging because I feel like I've seen him getting better each week. I feel like I'm seeing him. You know, I was worried about him in this Jacksonville game of him sliding that Claius Campbell down inside. I'm worried about Malik Jackson. You know. I didn't hear a lot from those guys, and a lot have to do with with

what the tackles were doing. But Connor Williams, I don't think he's you know, maybe early we thought, okay, a little bit of a liability with the power and the strength and all that. But I'm encouraged by his the way he's played so far, I really am. And this week again we'll talk about it. It won't be easy with the Ron Payne and Jonathan Allen and those guys. I mean, those are two big war Daddy type defensive tackles.

But I'm encouraged by Connor Williams what I've seen with him, pulling the pass protection, the things like that, he had a pull block to get Zeke free on the right side, captured the edge. I can't remember. I think it was maybe first half. Yeah, it was just the athleticism. Super impressive. That's the word. Well, that's the that's the first thing

you notice about him. I might say. Battling. Yeah, you know, because like we've talked about it, he's faced some guys that are just stronger than him, but he he doesn't back down from it. And again, it may take him a year to build that strength up, but he hasn't backed down from challenges. And it hasn't been perfect, but he's been solid. I worried about him too with no

Tras Frederick. Yeah, that's where I said, because I thought, Okay, at least Travis Frederick will help him, you know, because Travis Frederick's capable of doing that count Travis Fredericks was capable of knowing his assignments, knowing your assignments, and executing both your assignments. You know, his assignments and your assignments. So you know, with Joe, I was worried about Joe just having to worry about his own assignments and trying

to execute those. But I think that I think that Connor Williams and some one on one stuff has actually been pretty good. He gets a break this week because they cut Ziggy hood. They did do that yesterday. Huh. Yeah, he has a backup. But yeah, because Ziggy Jonathan Allen and yeah, those guys in pain are pretty darn yeah they are. I've got it. I'm gonna have to use a compound word that I'm gonna make up, okay, because this is the first thing that came to my mind.

Arrow up, Arrow up, arrow up. Here we go with a hyphen yes, one word, or we could make it one word if we why, I would ride it that way and that yellow line or that red line would come underneath it would Yeah, right, get that line? How do you? Okay? In the but when I make up boards, I get tired when I see that. Yeah, but do you see an arrow up? Because if you encouraged, I think the more he plays, the better he gets. And I think they're figuring out ways to use him where

he's more productive on the move. He's awfully darn good on the move. And and when you got two guards like that, let's let's get back to the packers student. You know, yeah, let's do the Lombardi sweet Lombardi sweep student. Body right, us body right, let's go. That's that's nothing wrong with that. You want to hit one more before one more for the break? Right? Could do you see the the bubble bursting for Brett maher mahar how do I say his name? Mahh yeah, Brett maher Well, I

hope it. Did you see the bubble bursting for Brett Maher? I hope I didn't jinx him yesterday because I wrote about how you know, if we're going to rip the Cowboys front office for all right tight end receiver, maybe they didn't project well enough there. You can argue that if you want, um for now, they nailed this decision, because this guy has been absolute money. Yeah. I went

back and looked at it. Uh. Dan Bailey I think had a stretch of twenty two consecutive field goals back in twenty thirteen, and he made eighteen a few years ago in a row. These guy's at fifteen and counting, you hope, um, and they've been pretty much down the middle. Yeah, I mean where he's like like it's a miss, Oh, it's good a couple of hooks, but yeah, he's been as steady as you could ask for. This will be a pretty good test for him. Chopped up field, grabutdoors.

You don't know what the wind's gonna be doing, and then you start thinking because you know, really when he the first one he missed, had a little bit to do with the wind, right, you know, it was out to drifted it outside on grass. So it's a little bit of a different story. But uh, it is bubble bursting, meaning he misses one. I'm just saying. I'm just saying, is he just the bubble bursting because he continue only heard me when in Houston I said he, I mean

he's due to miss one, right, it's gonna miss one. Yeah, and he hasn't he's reset the bar. The bar was way down here. There wasn't a bar in preseason. We didn't even know he was a candidate, honestly. Yeah, So what's now, So that percentage is going to be in the ninety percent range. Yeah, I think he's leading the NFC and or he's one of the top and scoring. If I'm not mistaken, If you keep this up, you're in the Pro Bowl. Yeah, Honestly, I mean you know

in the AFC, justice is gonna make it. I just I don't see the guy failing. I really don't. Maybe that maybe I've totally jinxen him here, but I just don't see it. But Mickey's right again looking at tape, the field is chopped up. When you guys walk the field on Sunday, you're gonna see a chopped up field. You know, you're gonna no telling what the wind, the weather conditions are going to be. Anybody look at that,

And I know Mickey lost how many times. I mean, last year, you guys played a driving rainstorm in that game. So who knows the weather? That's all here is heading that way or towards that way. So yeah, I just I feel kind of feel like that. You know, I don't think it will for this guy. He's fifteen of sixteen. It's nine thirty eight, So yeah, ninety three almost ninety four percent. Uh, there's a couple guys that are, oh, eight of eight. Oh, they they've messed this thing up.

One guy's sixteen of seventeen and they've got him at one thousand percent. Yeah, it's not really welcome to percent, is it? Welcome to the league? Is in the immortal words of Bill Parcels. One wrong, all wrong. Yeah, that's what Bill, you said. Tell me, I'd hand him somebod. He goes, that's not right. I'm like what he goes, one wrong, all wrong, and I'm like, okay, Actually that was my thinking when I you know, back in the day editing copy. If you make a fact mistake here,

how do I believe that? Yeah, you can't, but the fact. Sorry, this kid's kicking, but he's gonna miss one. I don't think the bubble burst and I think he seems too strong mentally to go downhill. Well yeah, I mean we thought that about this redible risk that they took. It's halfway through. It's it's paying off for him. Now. Yeah, Bailey was a little different circumstance. He got hurt, got her. I'm not saying he's mentally and he may say I'm back too soon. That's that's that's a fair for him.

It was like a golf swing. It just kind of went south for Tiger. Wood's not winning for five years, yeah kind of. I mean, I think it was a carry over into the off season. Yeah. And one of the reasons why they brought this guy in, um he could punt and he can kick everybody a break. They're in training camp, and then I just don't think they they they got scared of sort of the mental nature of Bailey in training camps because he didn't kick that right, And they also saw this kid not miss Yeah, so

it's another thing. And then I mean he malories and said he didn't make everyone. I I remember a couple of ugly kicks, right, Sure he missed too, yeah, But San Francisco he settled down and then it was like, yeah, he's making everything, and you know, and and and part of me thought in the game Sunday that at the end when they kicked a fifty five yard or they made it't need to do that, right, But I think they thought, you know what, let's give me some confidence. Yeah,

let's send him out there. You know, let's see what he can do from fifty five in a game, all right, And he nailed it. Yeah, he has nailed it. Ten games to go, a long way to go, but he is playing extremely well. Right now, Let's take our final break. When we come back, I've got a specific question for you guys about this Redskins defense. Next on talking Cowboys, if you're like me and you love. I mean, if you have a thing, then cutting the chord is scary.

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Jack Black dot com. Very good mick Bill Jones voice sir at the end. Yeah, y in there by the way, real quickly. I don't have the liner and and I'm not Bill Jones, but check out Kabu Texas. Yeah, May ten through twelve out of AT and T Stadium, not just a music festival. Got something for everybody, got great cuisine, got art exhibits, you got everything should be outstanding. Somebody stole that too, Yeah, yeah, I'd better quick taking our stuff. I don't know who they is, but yeah, we have

a camera on this. Your realize we're first and there's like three shows after some times, no, nonrena We're gonna tie it down right there. Okay, we'll do that. We'll do that all right. We only got a few minutes left in the show. If that happened. A lot of a lot of redskin talk today. And yeah it's Harvey

Martin week. Yeah, there we go, Memorial Week. We might have time to squeeze in a phone call at the end, if you guys want to call in eight eight, five, two two nine sevens the number I wanted to touch quickly on the Redskins defense because we saw this renaissance from the Cowboys offense on Sunday against Jacksonville forty points.

Just nobody saw that coming. Now they face a Redskins defense, guys that against the run just shut down the best running attack in the NFL through five weeks, Carolina eighty one yards. And what's interesting to me about it, guys, is the read option that we've seen already head to head, Cam Newton, Christian McCaffrey. Number one, you see the Cowboys trying that more and actually continuing what we saw with Dak running more. And two, is this a bad matchup

given with the way the Redskins handled that this past Sunday. Yeah, you know, I went back and I did get to see the Carolina game. I didn't know if anybody else did. Yes, Okay, so yeah, they it was I don't think that the Carolina was totally committed to doing it. Well who was, Yeah, I was running the ball for him. Yeahcaffrey. McCaffrey was trying to run it. But they I don't think they. It looked like to me they came into the game trying to throw the ball all initially and they and

they got but they got behind in this game. They got they got, Yeah, they got they got behind, and all of a sudden, we talk about, oh, if you can make somebody one dimensional, you know in Carolina, when Carolina can't play either tied or with the lead, Cam Newton's really not interested in running all that much, you know. I mean, I mean they've got to have that. They've got to have that as part of their their package. When they get behind, then all of a sudden, it

turns into, Okay, we got to throw the ball. I think Dallas will be more committed to trying to do some of the stuff, the read options stuff, the RPO stuff. It's what makes it difficult is when we talk about this what I mentioned, you know, with Jonathan Allen, they made a big time commitment seventeenth overall pick. I had him as a top five guy, you know, in the in the draft coming out when he did in twenty seventeen.

Had some shoulder issues that maybe dropped him down the board a little bit to you know, but he played five games last Yeah, this Dron Payne, I mean, Preston Smith, Ryan Kerrigan. They've got guys, they've they've got power. But you got Preston Smith and you got Kerrigan, and what those guys can do is they run and they you know, but you could take advantage of them a little bit with the Billy because they're gonna chase. I mean, they're gonna chase. So if you do get them chasing the

ball inside, well maybe you can bounce it. Because the way the Redskins like to play it is when they when they chase inside, they'll have those linebackers scrape over the top. So that's where if you can, you know you can. And that's where we saw the Cowboys have some success last week. Is as fast as Jacksonville's linebackers were, they were able to get bodies up onto those guys and then make it difficult for them to have to

make a play. So I don't really know how committed Carolina was to run in the football because I felt like they got behind in that game and then all of a sudden it became uh, you know, Green Bay and I watched that game. That didn't even they didn't even try and run. The Saints just the Saints just demoralized him the way you know that Drew Brees was throwing the football. So they haven't a lot one hundred

yard rushing, right, But maybe it's a little misleading. McCaffrey had twenty yards on eight carries he had and he ripped off two like eight yard runs on the first drive of the game, and after that had nothing. I just noticed when they did run the RPO, they were crashing in on him. Yeah, and it makes me think, And now I don't know how much the Cowboys will use that, but they're going to commit bodies to Zeke and try to stop him. Yeah, they know, they know

that's their survival defensively depends on that. Now, this is a secondary that has Josh Norman and they have you know, they have a young guy named Quinton Dunbar who you could read about today. He's one of my under the radar guys. He gets a lot of play because people don't want to attack Josh Norman. But I don't think I would go away. Like last week we talked about Jalen Ramsey and what he was able to do. I don't think you go away from Josh Norman. I really don't.

I think Josh Norman, especially now, they're playing just a ton of zone coverage here, So okay, how do you find ways? And he's gonna sit on one side of the field, He's not going to move around and you know, and travel with guys. I mean, I haven't seen that so far. I don't expect him to travel with Cole Beasley. And then that means that Fabian Moreau, who they drafted in the in the third round in the seventeen draft

from UCLA, is your nickel player. So I just feel like though that I would not be afraid to go after Josh Norman. I think Josh Norman not say his better days are gone, but I don't think Josh Norman is this oh my god, we got to stay away from you guy. I think that, you know, I think there's some things you can do to Josh Norman that will that can you could take advantage of him. And I think you could take advantage of this Quinton Dunbar

with some double move stuff. He's really anxious about, you know, getting in there. But to the Cowboys game plan, yeah, Zeke read option, RPO, waggles, boots, throw the ball down the field to Michael Gallup if you can, because I see those are opportunities down there. Two points. They got off to a the Redskins got off to a seventeen to nothing. That was huge. Carolina only ran the ball eighteen times. Yeah, and their best run was an end around by more is that Dj moore jo had an

eighteen yard run. Cam ran the ball nine times for forty three yards. That's almost five yards a carry a lot of us. He just had to keep it because they weren't gonna let mccaffre kay, So I'll take that. Yeah, they only ran it eighteen times ahead eighty one yards. So and then the Saints didn't try to run it. They didn't need to run against him, right, they just passed. Uh second point. I saw headlines about Josh Norman's back had an interception forced to fumble, Right, I could have

intercepted that ball. Yeah, Cam new And was hit when he threw the ball and it fluttered up like a duck and it went right to him. And and the darn thing about it was if Cam Newton's arm didn't get hit, his guy was behind him, they were behind touchdown. YEA buying this. You know he's starting to talk a better game. He played so bad against New Orleans they benched him. Well, he apparently he had a locker room thing at halftime with Gruden. Yeah, Well that that was

that led to the Benching go sit down. He did give up two touchdown passes and they so yeah, you know, I mean, they've got some guys up front, but I think you know, it's another three four defense. Yeah, those defensive ends played. Yeah, gotta block him. You gotta make sure these guys are you know. I mean, the thing that I always am concerned about is the inside power. You know, when you got Looney and you got Connor. But you know, so far, so good, you guys have

have held up well. I think you're gonna have to continue. Ryan Carrigan is one of those guys. I think he's one of the most underappreciated players in the league because he's a he's a He is always going after the ball. He's always trying to make plays. He hustles. His effort is tremendous. He plays on a football team that's been up and down, so he hasn't got the credit. But you have to. You have to make sure that you

finish him off as a blocker. You can't let him kind of hang around, hang around if they're moving around in the pocket. He's one of those guys that get sacks if there's four seconds in the pocket because he's just gonna keep going and going and going, and then the tackle is gonna lose leverage. And then the next thing, you know, he's got a sack. So you got to make And Preston Smith, you know, is a from Mississippi State. You know, he's another a good player's second round pick

in the twenty fifteen draft. I'll tell you what, I really like him a lot too. They've got a couple of goes good. Uh, those good outside linebackers with Smith and then and then with Kerrigan and and then those big inside guys. So it's a good defense up front that way. Person. Smith given him trouble before. Yeah, yeah, he's range yeah, long rangey guy. All right, let's go to redskin country before we get out of here. Oh, John in Maryland, they finished finish us up for us

great when with the against the Jaguars. Loved what back Tommy did with that offense. But I'm like super excited about this defense. Um, why what? What what makes you say about the defense? Sir? Yea, the secondary, the linebackers, but especially this line. Okay, um, And that's where my question is. We know what dew and David Irvan is gonna bring if they stay healthy at the end of

the year. But if Doors Armstrong and Randy Gregory, if they progressed that they have been gained by game and along with Moe Collins, do you think this is a defense by chemical run like the Giants did and h and the Broncos did in years ago? All right, super Bowl run? Yeah, all right, yeah yeah, I feel like I feel I just I hadn't seen the defensive line like the um ever with the Cowboys, and I'm I'm going back to like Charles Hilly days and when we had Charles Hilly and I don't know if we had

had me, I'm leash went after the quarterback. But I see this Jean line. I see a line that everyone can go after the quarterback, and uh, you know, I hope that's the chase by the end of the year.

You know what he said, And thank you When you guys were it was earlier, I don't know how we were talking about the defensive line and the different guys and I was thinking, you remember when Jerry Jones said this might be the most talented defensive front we've had, And I don't know if he meant in his time or whatever. And everybody was like ah ha ha ha, that's Jerry over talking again and exaggerating and you know, like he had amnesia or something. Well, you know what,

get what we saw last week. If it's just a glimpse of having malite Collins out there, David Irving out there, Gregory Lawrence, uh and the caller even mentioned Armstrong and Taco's playing better. Yeah, you know that. Now they've got to make sure they're good against the run, that they don't get this thing in their eye in their head that oh we the hot boys and all we gotta do is go get sacks. Yeah, you better stop the

run first, which Marinelli reminds them of every day. But if they do that, they got the ability to put pressure on the quarterback from across the board. If you had an offense that could score consistently, like they'd be even better. Yeah. Like if you had to do like what the Redskins did the other day and you get up seventeen nothing, you know, well you saw it off

aren't like the last week the Jacksonville. Yeah, all of a sudden, that defense becomes a lot better when when you all of a sudden you're playing behind the lead. Those sacks started piling up and half absolutely deposition the sacks. Sean, thanks for the call. We gotta get out of here, guys. Good show, good discussion. Bill. We'll be back tomorrow and we'll continue breaking down Cowboys. Retch Hall him to finish that showed in time to join us. He's a busy,

busy man, and so is Kid Garrison. Thanks for producing. We'll see you guys on Thursday. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.