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Touch On, take burners here, let's got kitson, Teddy Touchdown and now your hosts Isaiah Standback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez and Kyle Yeomans.
It's sent off season edition of Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company, live from the Star in Frisco, Texas.
And the s w PC Studio. Welcome in, everybody.
We've got the whole cast and crew ready for you to rock today with Patrick Noci Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Isaiah Standback, Chris Beam in the back of Kyle Yeomans. Welcome in Cowboys Nation to the twenty twenty six NFL off season. As the twenty five campaign is in the books like Stranger Things five and we are moving forward with this Cowboys organization.
I like those words.
You like those words? Why don't you you? I thought you were going to say I don't like those words. We're moving on, yeah, but we could be in the playoffs.
We could be in the playoffs, Kyle trapped in the upside down at a moment, I'm being controlled by back at the moment. Right at the moment, however, I think they might have gotten the mind flair out of here.
Oh is that correct? I mean I hate comparing that to the mind fire. Let me be very clear.
He was never that powerful one and two.
So would you call him? Was it just a dema gorgan?
Yeah, whatever it is. Yeah, I'm I'm he is a little bit worse than gog Yeah he was.
He was a little bit more performance while I don't want to.
A little less effective, but not by much.
Okay, So that leads us right into the breaking news breaking First of all, for once, Cowboys.
Didn't happened before the show.
Cowboys delivered some breaking news before Talking Cowboys got what happened. Yeah, so Matt eber Flus was fired.
I thought that was a rumor.
Period, since.
You've checked on Dallas Cowboys dot com.
Exactly, or even just checked your push notifications that my good friend Josh here sent out after the breaking news, are you didn't put good? You got to turn your notifications.
On, bro.
I'm not a big notifications guy.
So yeah, Cowboys took all of two days following their disappointing seven ninety one finish, which included another embarrassing defensive outing against the Giants, to get.
I thought it was gonna take ten to twelve days.
The review every It was never going to take ten to twelve days.
To that days until they find a new defensive coordinator.
Maybe you had about eighteen weeks to figure that one out.
But no, he's saying that because I saw that kind of circulating on Twitter, and I tried to debunk it yesterday because a couple of followers were like, hey, no Ce, can you know is this timeline?
Trull was like, that's not a thing.
Coach. The coach did say it's gonna take about ten twelve days reviews.
That was never a thing.
Yeah, that was they were trying to get through their exit interviews with players, and then once they got through the exit interviews with players yesterday, they were going to immediately turn their eyes towards the coaching staff to start making decisions, and obviously the most prominent decision needed to be made was on Matt Ebraflus. Hence the news landing this morning that Matt Ebraflus is out and the coaching search can begin, but they're not quite done, I'm told.
So when you heard Jerry Jones saying things like, you know, the defensive failings were quote unquote not all on Eberflus, that was a glaring implication that he's going to review the entirety of the defensive coaching staff to see who stays and who goes. What will be interesting is the timeline in which those decisions are made, Because now I'm gonna go to my analyst hat.
So that's the news portion of it.
My analyst hat is as you're sifting through some of these front runners for potential replacements from Matt Eberflus, I'm curious how the Cowboys choose to handle it. Do you go ahead and clean house on the defensive side of the so that you can look at the new defensive coordinator or these candidates and say you can come in and build completely as Eberflues did.
Or Edgy to keep on or Edgy keep on, I'm come on with it.
You want me to go ahead and say what I want to say and say what some of the person that I would like for you?
Yes, it along the defensive line, buddy.
I would like for you to retain a Whitecotton. Yeah, okay, well on the same page, gotcha. So outside of that, when I say clean house, it doesn't necessarily mean throwing the baby out with the bath water. And I think firing Aaron Whitecotton would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. But we've talked about it on several occasions here on the show. There are other position coaches that absolutely have to be a part of that discussion.
We talk about the lack of development with the linebacker corps, for example. We know that the cornerbacks were ravaged by injury, however there was still lack of development there ready, Stewart notwithstanding, So their position coaches on the defensive side of the ball that are going to be under heavy scrutiny over these next several days.
And your most valuable acquisition that you picked up on your roster this year plays well position defensive tackle.
Yes, got you?
And he might say mainly, but I would say a big reason why you sought him after that, after him was.
Because of who Aaron?
Yeah, as is the James Houston acquisition right as was you know, pushing well. Once they decided they were going to trade Micah trying to include initially trying to include Quentin Williams, because that was the initial try for Michael Parsons. They called the Jets and yeah, we wanted Quentin Williams, who was seening Michael Parsons at the time. The Jets were like, no, it's not going to happen. So Kenny
Clark comes here. And then, fortuitous as it might turn out, the Jets were open for season open season, I should say, for Quentinn Williams and the Cowboys midseason, so it worked out in Cowboys.
Favorite yeah, or tuitous to David Clowning also, so yeah, I'm two, wow, Wow, that's.
Very nicely done. Bar that might be the best hun we've had all year.
And it's crazy, all twenty twenty six, all of it.
Kyle had to get it well done, dude.
So Matt Eberflus is out and everyone else is under.
It's going to do it for us here on top. Yeah, joined us today.
It's downhill from there.
So yeah, fourth defensive coordinator on the way in as many seasons.
That's crazy to me to think about, and I think it was the right decision. We had this conversation before the adjustments that you anticipated from a guy like Matt Eberflus, who has been around the league, who has skins on the wall, who has obviously had a reputation around the NFL. You anticipate some level of adjustment as the season goes on. That's where I feel like he faltered absolutely, because we've
talked about the personnel. The personnel is not good. And if you're sitting at home as a cow and you're watching this defense and you think this personnel is good enough that just with one defensive coordinator and a new staff, they're gonna be up and ready to go for twenty twenty six, you got another thing coming because they got to make some significant changes in the personnel element as well.
But the one thing from Matt Eberflus's standpoint is when.
He came in, saw what he had in training camp, thought he would have a guy named Micah Parsons outside, and then said, don't worry, we're gonna move on from Micah Parsons, but I can scheme up pressure. And then through seventeen games of NFL football, you failed to scheme up pressure for the most part. I know there were a couple games where they had pressure, but you failed to scheme up pressure. The secondary faltered because of it,
the linebackers faltered because of it. Your defensive tackles. You traded for two dogs on the inside, and you arguably have two defensive tackles that would be in the top ten or fifteen at the position in the NFL. That was the one strength of your defense, but you still couldn't adjust to make any sort of leeway. That's my lasting influence or impression of what Matt Aberflus was here on this Cowboys roster, because I think Ibraflues is a great person. I think he's a good man. I think
he's a solid coach. But a coach needs to make adjustments, and in twenty twenty five he did not do that.
And the lack of adjustments extends to the fact that he was too rigid in scheme over personnel. So he's very clearly a guy that says my scheme, my scheme, my scheme, doesn't matter what the personnel is. That doesn't work at the NFL level. And I said this to
Tom Yards before the show. I said, this might be a situation where he needs to take his talents to the collegiate ranks where you can recruit for your scheme, but you have to be able at the NFL level to go into a situation and say, this is who you got, this is what I'm going to do based on who you got.
And this is the cards of Dealton. This is the scheme that is going in the best suit that personnel. There's a great tweet by Nick Heir when he was speaking to Dante Fowler yesterday about Eberflus in the scheme, and I really like this quote from Dante Fowler. We got the guys, we just need to put them in the best position to make plays. That's it. I don't
care how good you think your scheme is. You just got to evolve around your players, take your players' opinions on some things, and try to put your players in the best position to make plays.
Wow, that's from Zante.
It's almost like some guys have been saying that.
But I still don't think we have the guys though. Yeah.
And I think he was dealt a bad hand in all of this too, because he expected to have Michael Parsons on his team, and granted that didn't happen. The decision was made unanimously. They said, So, I mean, that's that's what was reported, that's what they said, So I'll leave it there. But obviously that's going to hinder what you're able to do as far as pressure goes, as far as scheming of pressure goes, when you don't have
an all pro pass rusher like Michael Parsons. And granted I think it ultimately it's going to be for the because of the players that you're going to get. Me, Like we talked about, you get two ones, Quinn Williams and Kenny Clark. I think that's an excellent trade in my opinion, but it's.
Well, now it would be one to one Kenny Clark and Quinn one.
That's true, But still that's three guys that you would argue are going to make a magnificent impact on your defense.
For years to come.
And it's not all going to one player. You can spread it around a little bit, which I think ultimately is going to be fortuitous for us. But you have to have the right scheme like we're talking about, and you have to put your players in the best position. We talked about safety that position all year long and how they were not set up for success the entire year when you look at the players that these guys are and literally putting them out of position all year long. That is the problem for me.
Yeah, cool, Isaiah is not going to fly here today.
Sir, I listen, I've spoken on this while.
Yeah, what have we not said about this?
I mentioned it early in the season that they don't have the guys that Matt Eberflus's scheme. I mentioned that what he was doing was the lack of adjusting to the to the talent that you have on a roster. Mentioned that, we mentioned the lack of execution on basic schemes that he was trying to initiate because of the guys on the field just weren't able to do it. Simple stuff. So that was not all Eberflus. This is not all Eberfools. This Eberflus is responsible because it's his unit.
This is not all Eberflus. To the point that we're talking about, there will be there will be roster changes, and you have to adapt your roster to the scheme that your coordinator is bringing in. I don't care who you are. I mentioned it early on. These are dan Quinn guys in a Matt Eberflus system. Doesn't work that way. You can't ask safety just because by position they're supposed
to possess certain capabilities. You can't ask them to do things that traditional safeties would do if that's not what they can, if that's not in their in their in their wheelhouse. You didn't have corners that feel comfortable playing a lot of his own. You have press man corners. You're asking them to play soft now, Yeah, can they do it?
Yeah?
Are they gonna do it to the level that they need to know? You didn't have pass rushers, you know, you had two gap guys. These are all things that were indicative of not working for that scheme. So, I mean, it's not an all fluse thing. It's unfortunate that he
is no longer with the Cowboys. He's a great human being, great father, all those things, great person, but it was a combination of lack of adapta adaptation by him and a lack of execution by the players, and ultimately it resulting in him not no longer to be in here, and that sucks, right, But we all saw it coming
and we knew that they needed to be changed. But this organization call a spade a spade, This organization has not done what they've needed to do in terms of being aggressive enough at the coaching ranks to get the guy that they need to get in here and change things.
They have been.
Throwing stuff against the wall and hoping that it sticks. I repeat, there is no salary caps on coaches, No salaries caps on coaches. Go get somebody that you know what the heck they are, and that when that person steps and as soon as that person's name is mentioned, there are going to be players that say, ooh, either I can get with that or I ain't getting with that at all, because I know all that's required to go play for that person.
Listen in or out.
And there is only a handful of names that you could mention that are those type of guys. I've said it before. You guys know who I've sitt on the table before stating that I would like Outside of that individual, everybody else that you would mentioned that is in that realm is most likely up for a head coaching position.
They're not gonna make an adjacent move. They're not gonna come over here because because you're the Cowboys and you have the star, you're either gonna get that guy or you're gonna settle for somebody else that you are hopeful can execute what it is.
That you're hoping to get done.
On defense, there.
Are three things I want to mention with the last three head coach or a defensive coordinator hires. They were all guys with established track records as defensive coordinators. Yep, dan Quinn, Mike Zimmer, Matt Eberflus track records as defensive coordinators, went to become a head coach, had limited success, but for the most part failed, especially with Matti Eberflu's he never really had any limited success. Zimmer had some limited success. Of course, Quinn led the Falcons to a Super Bowl
and lost in that eight to three game. Both all three of those guys had that they brought them back on the back half of being a head coach returning to be a defensive coordinator. One of them worked out dan Quinn, two of them did not. So I would argue they've gone with people that they feel like they do know about, but there's been a buffer in between. They've felt like, Oh, Dan Quinn, Mike Zimmer, and Matt Eberflus have all been successful as defensive coordinators enough to
be hired by another NFL organization. Because of that, they felt like they said, oh right, they're going to be successful as a defensive coordinator now in this league. So my question to you becomes, when you're talking about a sure thing, does it have to be a current defensive coordinator that's had success or is it going to be another guy who was once a head coach and has had a buffer in between his time of being a coordinator in this league.
Let me backpedal a little bit. Dan Quinn had a lot of success here as a defensive coordinator. Dan Quinn became an head coach once again because of the success that he had here. Absolutely, coordinator dan Quinn's defense would have been dang near perfect had he had the personnel he needed on.
The defensive line.
Absolutely, So that was a personnel thing. Yes, no questions there are.
He left here because he took a better opportunity, a head coaching head coaching job.
Since then, no, since then, no, since then? You you took you.
Got Zimmer, and you got Zimmer who hadn't coached in a minute, and you had Zimmer who had something that he was known for that wasn't very revolutionary.
But it's like, okay, you know this is what he is. He is a He's an older version of.
Brian Flores, right that scheme, Then you bring in Eberflus. Eberflus is legitimately came off the heels of getting fired, and you're like, as a head coach. As a head coach, you know, his defenses were considered to be solid, right, and the offense was always the issue out there for him, So you brought him in thinking that he was going to be the solution.
The only thing with.
Ebra Flus is ebra Flus didn't have an or about him. I mentioned that to you guys when I went out there to do some off season stuff for voting. I was like, I stepped in the room. Now you were not He did not command the room. That was just for the half hour that I was in the in that space, I was like, probably a great dude.
Doesn't command the room.
So bringing him in as a defensive coordinator, I mentioned, I was like, I don't see how that's gonna work. Hopefully it works, but I saw him in front of a bunch of men and a bunch of all those other guys looked at him like eh, So I.
Didn't see it really working out. I didn't think it was gonna be this bad.
But the person I'm talking about, You guys know this, right Rex, Ryan, we can talk about this and I'm gonna get laughed at all kinds of stuff. No, there are no other I hear you. There are no other names. I don't care who you mentioned. You could say the guy that we can't say right now because he's still in a contract. He'll be a head coach. I'll tell you that right now.
He will be a head coach.
Somebody's gonna get most likely in Las Vegas.
He'll be a head coach in Las Vegas. I'll say that right now.
So that's a no. Also, there's no for other reasons why he would never come here. There is nobody else that you guys can bring up to me that you'd be like, ooh, I know exactly what he stands for. I know exactly the type of players that you have to be to play for that guy. You either get with it or you get gone. Type of guys. Everybody else that you would mention would probably be like, yeah, you know, I mean, don't don't work with what you have,
you know, like they'll make it happen. No, No, no, I want somebody's Like, when that person's name is mentioned, you're like, oh crap, okap okay, Yeah, I know this person's either aggressive or this person has this style of play whatever it is. Like, you know what the identity of their of their scheme is before you even step in the room, before you even looked at the roster. You know what you have to be in order to play for this individual.
Please Okay, So capslock hell no on rix run. And for reasons that I've said.
Before, you you don't get grace from me after because what are you talking about, right, You're saying, you know, like a buffer has existed. Yeah, what buffer is is thicker than a ten year hiatus from coaching.
Like you just criticize Mike Zimmer.
Exactly my point. So sometimes let me continue. I was never impressed by him, That's that's fine. The fact of the matter is ten years going does not imply to me that you can hit the ground running in four defensive coordinators in four years. You need someone who's going
to come in and hit the ground running. You don't need something Oh well Rex Ryan needs two or three years to get it going at Nope, not going to cut it right, obviously obviously for four for four your Wendy's right, your value meal at Wendy's right now, not a s now granted my front runner. I can't say the name again of the Nordic variety, right, We'll just leave it there. I feel like Aura commands the room, but likely will go and get you know, promotion somewhere.
Okay from there, because you rather you like what's behind that option or not. You got to discuss those options, right. There's a guy in one of the cities in Ohio. I can't say the name, but he commands a room Cleveland, Yeah, and it could be anywhere. He commands Miami, respect from his locker room. I think we can agree to that now to a lesser degree as far as having that doggish Aura a little bit more of a subdued Aura,
but still gets buy in immediately. Jonathan Gannon, who also has we can say his name because he has been fired. Jonathan Gannon has familiarity with guess who Clayton Adams on the other side of the ball. Okay, he's also not of the old Guard Rex Ryan, old Guard, Mike Zimmer, old Guard Dan Quinn. Still effective, but old guard that even flews old guard. Here's Jonathan Gannon right there in that sweet spot of the Brian Schottenheimer, the Clayton Adams.
That would make a lot of sense. So much he's had success in this division recently.
Recently with whom the Philadelphia Eagles. Doesn't he have a ring on his finger because of that defense? I believe he does?
Right?
Was he there in twenty seventeen?
Wasn't he hold on?
It wouldn't have been. It wouldn't have been last year.
That wouldn't have been last year.
Okay, fair enough, But he coached one of the best defenses in consistently.
Yeah, and they took him to a Super Bowl he did.
Yeah, that's what I'm okay.
So and in that space he that defense that he coached to being one of and often the best in the league.
What did they have?
They had dogs up front, right, they had Jordan Davis and they had Okay, So, now he's coming into a situation and we're just speaking to guy. It doesn't mean that he's going to be the guy, but this is me offering him as a candidate. Those pieces are already in place here, Quinny Williams, Kenny Clark, we can talk about Osa Salomon Thomas, he's here on the contract next year.
Those pieces are in place. Jonathan Gannon knows how to get the edges where they need to be as far as talking to the front office personnel wise, because they're going to have to do some edgework. Dante Fowler free agent. Don't know that you should bring him back, bring Jadavon Clowney back, Sam Williams not so much. You see what I'm saying, you have to develop Israku go back linebackers. He knows how to coach linebackers. That's one of the best things they did in Philadelphia and still to this
day doing Philadelphia linebackers. But it also goes to having the right personnel there to undevelop those guys. Right, So names like Jonathan Gannon are going to be front runners because I'm telling you right now, a guy like Clayton Adams, he's already on the phone with the Schottenheimer and Jerry and saying you should give this guy and look, bring him in for an interview. So I hear what you're saying, but I feel like it's time to move on from the old guard.
You know what's really kind of funny just not to interrupt, but just to take a look back at Jonathan Gannon's list of coaching hirres and where he's been. He was in Minnesota from twenty fourteen to twenty seventeen under Mike Zimmer. Right after that, he was hired as the defensive backs coach in twenty eighteen by the Indianapolis Colts under and then he goes to and is the defensive coordinator. Had
success with Philadelphia for two years there. Yeah, listen, kind of funny that to look at it that way when.
You see I'll put it this way really succinctly, when you see Jonathan Gannon get fired by the Cardinals and players start tweeting images of them hugging him, telling them how much sty'll miss him. If you show me a single Cowboys defensive player that tweets that type of image from Matty.
Maybe Kenneth Murray, Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah, don't get me stuck. Which you know what, which, no, no, which, kind of going to another.
Point I was going to say that was also Matt Eberflus's undoing is inconsistency and accountability. I talked to so many players on the defensive side of the ball in the locker room day in, day out, who just could not understand why they were not getting the rightful shot at ascending on the depth chart. When you have guys
like Jack Samborn who was struggling, Nneth Murray was struggling. Hell, we just watched the Giants game where Osa got bent for an all size penalty, and then not long thereaft Solomon Ton Solomon, Tom, I'm sorry, and then not long thereafter, Kenneth Murray with the bone headed late hit out of bounds doesn't get pulled and doesn't get pulled. The message
that sends to the locker room is outrageous. So there was no buy in immediately, and then everything just started to unravel once they realized eber Flu's had his guys, regardless of how poorly his guys played.
I want to continue this conversation.
I want to hear your thoughts that I rudely interrupted a moment ago on the other side of the break. Once again, Maddieberflues fired as the defensive coordinator after one season here with the Cowboys. Taking a look at what could possibly be next for this Cowboys defense when we come back with more talking Cowboys.
How's it going you see that Cowboys game.
Oh, I watched.
I've been seeing some good things totally. They have some talent.
You have some great talent, and.
They got some fight hoping this is the year me too.
Oh I'm Cody.
By the way, I'm Travis.
Nice to meet you. Travis, go cowboy.
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To Talking Cowboys.
Back here on Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company, the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. This segment is brought to you by invisi line the official smile of the Dallas Cowboys. Matt Eberflues fired as the defensive coordinator
in Dallas. Isaiah, we were talking in the previous segment about how you can have stop and stop it, how you can find a guy worth replacing, because based on your initial reaction, and I don't disagree with you, by the way, I'm on the same page as you are. If you don't go get a guy, a proven commodity, somebody that you can bring in here and trust that despite having a lack of talent on your defense, which is fair right now, you have some high end guys and then you've got a bunch.
Of nobody's on defense.
Let's call a spade as bay.
They've got to be welcome to doing something with that. If not, why even move on from Matt Eberflus if you don't have a possible replacement in mind?
May I really quickly just jump in to say, I think a part of this conversation needs to include consistency, because we don't want to be here in a year's time saying and the Cowboys have moved on from there five to five defensive coordinator in five years and even
if it's successful. I mean that also means if you're going after a guy that's you know, the best of the best currently that has you know, that hype behind them, they will also be considered for a head coaching job because of the platform they would be going forward, even if they're especially if they're being talked about in head head coaching realms right now and they don't want necessarily the Raiders job for instance, or the Cleveland six jobs available.
There are six NFL head coaching jobs available as of today.
But so when you do make this higher, are you are you guys considering the idea of making sure this is a consistent higher. This will be the higher that we will build around for the next That's three.
Which also goes to getting away from the old guard.
So my whole thing is when you start talking about coordinators, there has to be an identity like before, like you have that identity, and then you have to have a personality right right, because the identity in the personality can't be separated. You need the personality of the coach to be manifested through the players.
This is where I feel you on Rex Ryan. Yeah, I genuinely do. Yeah, because that that personality that embodies their defense.
Absolutely high energy, no nonsense, run through your face. We're gonna be uber aggressive.
But we're gonna lose. We're gonna lose because.
We just got beat on something while we're blitzing, you know, trying to get you, trying to get your quarterback one. It's one v one mono E mono. I'm calling you out as a man, like you know what I'm saying, Like there's an energy there or there I don't. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist otherwise other places, right, I'm not. I'm not saying that I don't know all these guys individually, but there isn't any other names that
you guys could bring up to me. And I understand that he's been gone for it, and I understand that he's old school. I'm old school, So that's why I'm kind of leaning towards that direction. There aren't any other cordant defensive coordinators that when I hear their name, I know their scheme and I know what they're about, that are not going to be considered for head coaching jobs, and that who already do not possess defensive coordinator positions.
Most of these guys, if they're very successful at their job, they're not going to leave where they're at to go for an adjacent.
Job, because then in the next coaching style or coaching cycle, if they don't get a coaching job this cycle they have success in the place they've already been having a success, then you go again. Dan Quinn three years here with the Dallas Cowboys a great example of that.
But that's unless they feel like they have that they can work with Dallas's personnel more and have more success making that lateral mode.
I'm not doing it.
I'm not leaving I'm not leaving a pie.
I'm not leaving a.
Defensive coordinator position to make a lateral move.
Where to make it a lateral mo is just not happening, right, So that's what I'm saying. So the guys that you guys are most willing, Now you mentioned a coach who's fired, Okay, that's the potential, But everybody else that you respect in the coordinator defensive coordinator position.
Has a job already. They already have a job.
So you either have guys that have been waiting for the perfect opportunity, you have guys that have just got fired. Or you have guys that are waiting for the head coaching spot that's really the pools you're living. Or you're going to college and you're pulling somebody up.
I think there's a caveat to that.
The caveat to that would be example being you know the guy who lives in Ohio. If you if you're in a situation where yes, you're a defensive coordinator, but you don't like what's going on. You look around within that particular organization. It's a mess on that side of the ball. It's a mess whatever, whatever, and your future is uncertain and you just don't like the overall direction.
I'd be willing to take a lateral move to something that is at least more promising, that might have more money attached.
So I go to a place that just got rid of the last four.
Guys that is at least more promising.
It's true, you know, hold on, but the difference being look at what's happening in that particular organization on the other side of the ball versus what this side of the ball looks like, respectively.
If you understand understand what there are no concerns.
I should say they're little, little concerns because there's some some growth that shoty has to do, but there are little few concerns on the offensive side of the ball.
So if I'm that defensive.
Coordinator, I'm looking at the whole of the situation and saying, well the situation, I'm man, man, this house is burning down.
And if you're that organization, are you going to allow that person to walk out the door without giving them the bag?
You're gonna You're gonna offer it. But again, it's still on that person to say we're now still correct. It's a conversation within myself to say, Okay, well I could take a little bit more money here because they're up in the band for me to stay. However, that more money doesn't stop the fact that the house is burning down.
Guys don't want to jump around. I'm just telling you that coaches do not. They have families. They don't want to be jumping from place to place. You have three little minions. If you move to three different cities in the last four years, your wife's gonna be like, sit down, what do we do?
What are we doing? Right? Like?
So I understand, I respect what you're saying, and I understand it that account balance.
But guess what where we could make it.
But wherever they're at, if there's home school, wherever they're at, wherever, whatever coaches were talking about, if they currently have positions with organizations, those organizations value them, they're going to give them the back there Again, I repeat, there are no salary caps when it comes to coaches.
This is as a blank check.
If the owner wants them and doesn't want them to leave, they will sign whatever they want to and you may or may not find out what they're making.
That's tell you kept this Garrett's offensive coordinator.
I'll tell you what we're talking about.
Candidates who will receive offers in some way, shape or form right whether they are currently under the contract or they were just fired, but they're going to get offers. Let me know when Rex Ryan starts taking a bunch of interviews, there's a reason he's not getting interviews.
Is here He was interview here, Yes, when a couple of years ago, when when I talked about him last time you're talking about before you guys have that mean they hate brought him in for an interview. That's that's on the menu.
I will say, I think over the last two hires Zimmer and Eberflus. This front office has consistently tried to find that same spark or that same experience level of Dan Quinn just to try and replicate some ounce of success that they've had with him in the past. Not saying Zimmer and Eberflus were the same person. They were not, however, trying to find a former head coach with skins on the wall, who has been around it, has had success as it even's coordinator.
All of these elements here. You're talking about.
Old school, you're talking about new school to a certain extent. Is this a time where a new school head coach with Brian Schottenheimer, who's going to have heavy influence on this higher is it time for him to go new school and give somebody a shot, give somebody that hasn't been a defensive course.
Isn't that what he's been doing offensive side of the ball.
He has been Clayton Adams and Connor Reiley rights. He's giving guy titles. I'm just saying he's given guys a shot who otherwise may not have.
Is a title I don't think he carries nearly as much a way.
My point being to Cal's point, the defensive side of the ball for the most part, that eber flew was higher.
That was not shoddy.
So that and clearly it was not and neither was Zimmer.
This will be a shoddy higher.
Oh he'll yeah, the fingerprints will be all over it. I'm curious though, if the conversation at at any point, because this is going to be a long speculation between Yeah, it's gonna be like, it's gonna be crazy. Yeah, But I I kind of wonder if internal conversations start to happen as far as making a higher within.
Curious making a higher within? Who would you hire within? We can talk about it.
There's only one guy I would even consider consider.
I mean, how would you guys feel about White Cotton.
That's the only guy I would consider. But that's not the move I would make. But in the realm of consideration.
In the realm of consideration, I think we have to I think we have to talk about I don't.
Know his abilities to calling place same. I know he's an amazing defensive line coach, That's what I know.
Yeah, you want to.
Keep Again, just like all positions, all all coordinators aren't head coaches, All position coaches aren't coordinating, So I can't speak to him and his abilities. I just know my biggest thing, again, when you mentioned a person's name, do you know the style of play that you're going to get?
You do know the style of coaching you get with White Cotton?
Oh, that's for sure.
So he wasn't in the head coaching conversation whenever we had it, and then they had internal conversations, and guess who became the head coach. I'm just saying.
And the person that I'm talking about, White Cotton fitten great with that person.
There's also a defensive racks coach that was here for a little bit of time that left and went somewhere else. I can't say his name because he's under contract somewhere else. We've talked about him on the show a couple of times. Right now, would you even think about that possibility? That's not a lateral move.
We thought about it last.
That would be a promotion. Would you think about that? And would you know what type of style of play you would get from a guy, let's say that's on the Chicago Stauf not.
When they're responsible for the entire defense. I don't. Okay, that's what I'm saying like, guys are great position coaches.
I don't know, and none of us know what they would look like when they turn on Madden. You know, say, like, when you're responsible for all three levels, it's an entirely different thing. You have to have a scheme for all three levels. You can't just speak to your position of excellence. You have to speak to the linebackers. You gotta say the linebackers and you guys doing this because this is well, I need you to play, I need your defensive line. I need you guys, interior guys to play like this.
Your defense is like you're commanding the defense. It's not just I get this title and I'm like, all right, position coaches, make your work with what I'm trying to do on the back end.
Like you have. You have to know exactly all three levels through and through.
Let me be very clear, I don't think that's a possibility, nor do I think the front office nor Brian Schottenheimer would want that as a possibility. I'm just putting out a feeler for what that would scenario. Because the guy that was buddy buddy with him while he was here just left and got cut because of hostage.
It was buddy buddy with him.
Jordan Lewis too. I think like at this point, it's a different defense than he left.
Great point, So I don't think different, but he just went to a defense that wasn't the same defense, and.
There he's not. But I understand what you're saying.
But discircles me to your point. Right.
Granted, there are some position coaches that you just yeah, you don't know about, but I think this particular gentleman is above that particular take, by the because of Mike McCarthy.
Mike McCarthy did this.
Particular guy a huge favor by naming him assistant head coach and bringing him into those meetings so he can have the greater scope of things, right, So it made his uh, it expanded his thought process beyond just the defensive backs in Dallas. So that's why the name we're talking about I would be completely on board with, because again.
Isaiah makes a valid take.
However, I think this guy is above that take because he got the scope, the grand scope of things thanks to Mike McCarthy and how he chose to handle him when he was there.
Yeah, I just don't know if it's a possibility.
I don't know possible think would, and I know that somebody on Twitter brought up the guy in the Pacific Northwest, and I just I.
Just love that we're doing.
We're a big geography, we love the United States and the coast to coast.
Moderica's team.
Absolutely.
My thought process with that is, I just don't see that gentleman, with the success that he's having, he ain't even turning around and coming back to an organization he felt slighted by by not giving him a rightful chance of being the DC here in the first place.
It's been awesome, but he ain't leaving. All right, when we come back, I'm not leaving.
I want to have a quick segment about the personnel on the defensive side. I've got a couple questions that you need to answer, because the Cowboys need to answer those questions coming up in a matter of moments when.
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To Talking Cowboys.
Back here on Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company. Look Who's back, Isaiah Standback No longer. Boy, just behind the curtain. You're dealing with sign.
Us something I don't know, Yeah, I don't.
I don't blame you.
He's not coys to know.
He is.
Pressure out. Pressure is pressure. Pressure makes diamonds.
Right, that's what they say.
That's what they say, scheming up pressure.
At least somebody. Sorry, sorry less again.
All right, I got a bit of an exercise, per se. I'm gonna name starters on this defensive side of the ball from twenty twenty five. I want you to tell me two things for each of these names, and we're gonna run through this pretty quickly. If you want to stop and debate over a player, let me know number one, would you bring them back and be a starter? Should they be a starter next year? Let's let's rephrase that, should they be a starter for this team next year?
Two?
Would they be a starter on any of the other all thirty one teams out there?
This will be fun, all.
Thirty one teams?
All right?
All right, starting, I'm just gonna go down the list here. I know he's not an edge rusher, but I'm just gonna throw him out here as three defensive linemen.
Oh so to Gizua yes, yes, there you go.
Yes and yes, right, yes, yes, Kenny Clark, yes, yes, yes, and yes, Quentin William Yes, yes, yes, Okay, so let's go ahead and move those guys out of the way. We're good there, Edge Rusher, I'm just gonna throw out Dante Faller Jr.
No, yes, oh wait, sorry, yes, No.
You would bring him back, but you would not see him as a starter on the other threat.
No, no, no, no.
He was very vocal about not being healthy this year, being hurt, and uh, of course vocal about the scheme. I would like to give him another year, a healthy off season and see what he can do. I would like to bring him back.
It's gonna be in a discount too.
Would he be starting?
No, No, I think yeah. I think that's a progress stopper for Israk.
Could be Donovan as rockerho that's yes, yes, yes, and maybe yes and maybe no.
But it's a second question.
Yeah no, yeah, it's not unfair.
He's in the NFL. Okay, yes, no, and I agree and that and that might change, but he's been turned into it.
Yes, in my opinion as of right now.
Yes, you're right, Yesdavian.
Clowney, Yes, yes, yes, and yes, yes, yes, Okay to Marve and overshow.
Yes, yes and yes yes no.
I think I'm merried with you.
You got to be on the start.
You gotta be on the field, on the field, heat start. Best ability is availability. When he's available heat start.
When we could say when, when, where?
Why?
What?
How?
Are we adding a third question? Can they be available? No, it's that's what I'm saying, so then yes, I'm just.
Going to the base.
I'm assuming every one of these guys are healthy at the time of this question.
When he's healthy, he's starting for other time.
I'm assuming every one of these guys are healthy at the time of this question.
Okay, yes, yes, okay.
Uh Kenneth Murray, No no, no, no no, Isaiah L would you like.
To No, No, I'm gonna say yes.
No.
You would bring him back? Not a starter? Why would you bring him back?
Because I think he he is a good player. I just think that he needs better coaching.
Hmm, interesting, more accountability or better scheme.
He doesn't have the vision. He's a hell of it. He's a tackler. He's a tackling machine. I don't care nobody says he's just his vision was terrible.
So he's and he started off decent.
Isn't part of that instinct.
Though part of it is instinct, but part of it is coaching. We don't know what the heck's going on in that room in terms of keys and I vision.
And I want to see more from your younger linebacker corps.
No, no, he's not want to Maximo. If you ain't got the vision, you ain't got it.
Donovan Wilson. Safety depends on the de coordinator.
Yes, no, no, I'm saying no, no, I'm saying I think it depends on the decordinator. If it's if it's a Quinnesque coordinator that plays him downhill as opposed to in coverage. Donald can do some stuff for you. Maybe he's a coordinator that needs him to play coverage.
Malie Cooker.
Yes no, I'm say no, no, no, no.
No, no, I'm there with I'm there with you.
Going to court owners Kaal and Carson mm hmmm, yes, no, yes, no, I think there's a there's a development issue there.
Yes, no, so yes, no, And you.
Have to have a coordinator that's going to help develop them.
I'm not dealing with Kevin Carson.
Uhd ron Blane yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, right, yes, yes, yes no no, on the on the back, yes no, yes no, give me a healthy off season, we'll see.
Okay, ready Steward yes no at safety, yes no, you're interested with him at.
Safety, I'm gonna say yes, no a hard hitter.
I like what you did there, but yes, no, I like that.
I'm cool with that. I would say no no.
If you're going to pigeonhole him into corner as a nickel or whatever, I want poke him up a little bit seven pounds of muscles.
I won't already I want him to.
Sam Williams, Now, I'm going into the second girl.
No no, no, no, no no, yeah, and he's up on a contract years no no, you can possibly see h walk Logan Wilson no no.
Yes, no no no, why yes, death wise, I want him on the team, okay.
Solomon Thomas, yes, yes, yes, i'd say yes no, but I'm confident in yeah, yeah, I'm cool with that. Marquis Bell yes no, yes, no, okay. And these are all second tier guys anyway, so it should.
Also that's also death and special team absolutely with yes.
The reason for this exercise is to see how many no's we had in any capacity, whether you wanted him back or he would start on any of the other thirty one NFL teams. There's a lot of nose. There, lots of nose period. There's a lot of yes nose. Yeah you want to bring it back, Yes you want them as a part of your football team. Yes, there's a lot of guys that I think can help you be better moving forward. But would they be starters in a starting role other than Dallas Texas?
And I think that's probably the biggest problem that we're It's like we're used to a certain level of play on the defense when we're talking about how we need a total facelift, like you need to clean house on defense, you have ten pol guys. Absolutely the yes yes is but some of these yes nos, I'm like, okay, well, then at what point do we expect them to make that next step coaching permitting all of these things permitting, I mean, let's let's clean house.
Man.
This is why you have to attack this offseason in both the free agency and the NFL draft. And when I say free agency, I don't mean bargain ben shopping. I don't mean waiting until the you know, third and fourth wave of free agency. I mean, you need to be active in the first two waves of free agency.
You got to walk away with this free agency with at least one whale, at least a whale a few and absolutely and now if that if that whale comes by way of trading in free agency to acquire the cap space, you can have the cap space.
You go to make my freaking head explode.
You can't have the cap space, I know, just because so many people are sins, so many people are like, oh, they're over. You can have the cap space even after you sign. You can have the CAPSA and please do not rely on the draft alone. You can have do everything you can to change this defense. You can have the cap space. I mean, there's so many ways to
have the cap space. There are restructures on their restructures there. Yeah, there are you know, preemptive extensions like on Kenny Clock and Quinny Williams that freeze up money immediately, things like that.
You can get it done.
And if you trade for a whale, you can then rework the contract with say it whale once you acquire him. There are so many ways to do what I don't want to talk about pot unless it's sweet potato or pelongs.
Right now, you are projected to be thirty three million over the Caps in twenty twenty set, which is the worst number in the NFL.
So I just want to put it out there the bestively did we have the best before?
For one of the best.
Now you have twenty three million of cap space now.
But you can roll that over.
You you can.
There's there's ways to maneuver it.
Make it enough, this, make it.
This is the first off season episode. We got a long way to go. We'll talk about it.
Maybe by the time we hit the airwaves next Tuesday at ten am Central time, we'll maybe have a new defensive coordinator to talk about us, or we'll at least have some interviews to talk about it. Ten days, ten days, we got a little bit of time. Thanks for watching Talking Cowboys. Hope you had some fun with us over the last fifty minutes. For Patrick Noci Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Isaiah stand Back on Kyle Yeomans saying so long from Talking Cowboys, We'll see you tomorrow.
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