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Now your hosts Isaiah Standback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez, and Kyle Yeomans.
It's an off season edition of Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company, live from the Star in Frisco, Texas in the SWBC studios. Welcome in, everybody, as we are ready to attack this twenty twenty five off season with a head, a heavy heart, and with a little extra I don't even know, maybe a little extra juice, because it's gonna be an interesting off season to say the least. We've got Patrick Noci Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Tommy
Yarrish with Chris Bean in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans. It's gonna be yeah, buckle up, here we go. That's buckle up, buttercup. Yeah, I mean, this is gonna be a an off season that is not for the faint of heart. Cowboys have relatively zero cap room and don't seem super happy about their options of finagling that cap room.
And oh and by the way, they've got to make.
A decision on their head coach moving forward.
So lots to talk about. Yeah, a little bit on the docket there.
But yeah, how's everybody doing.
Everybody great? Great?
Had some little chili coming in.
Yeah, oh yeah, that hawk has arrived, dude low bringing is bringing carry on luggage. This this is coming weekend.
What man, that one's on, Tommy.
Is it is crispy as a Northerner, it is very cold.
Yeah, you're from Chicago, Yeah, one of the bears.
We'll talk about that a little bit.
Twenty one degrees is twenty one degrees no matter where you are. The other thing I would say, is that different for in Chicago because win But we talked about a few days ago that wind that us shoot this run.
In that was very like yeah, yeah, and the snow that's about to hit two is very We're expected to get seven inches of I've seen.
Very I've seen one to four seven.
I saw graphic of eight to twelve.
I'm like, yeah, that was over like a couple of days. Yeah, that that graphic up at the top. It's like over three or four days.
But still either believe the one I see it is how I'm kind of seeing it because because there, because you're from Chicago. No no, no, no, no no, no, no no no. I'm not trying to not trying to upset mother nature. I'm just saying there have been many a time in this lone star state where you know, the weizer experts say hey, it's gonna snow x y z amount and then you get flurries and that's it.
Regardless.
Everybody stay safe when you're driving, you're careful of good and please don't get hurt.
Meteorologist Tommy Ash talking.
To you, have a meteorol see you doing it.
We gotta get you to screen.
We gotta get you to stop wearing button ups.
To talking cowboys.
That's the next step that direction.
Everybody looks very yeah, okay, well this very cowboys.
We need.
We got to get fast and loose in there. You got your butt up. Don't listen to that thank you say with your chest.
When when you're here with it.
Man, you got one guy on one side of the table wearing a button up and the other guy on the other side of the table wearing a night Here on the Element T shirt.
If anything, just undo one of them, you know what I mean, give us a little more neck you know, I'm saying.
Ye.
Got an undershirt.
He's got the chain on them. Kids watching, I'm just saying, dude, we're talking about cool.
Just think what does the chain have a number on it?
It does, it's a numbers. It's twenty eight for my girlfriend's softphone. Let's go.
That's a supporting boyfriend right now.
I love bit.
We're going to talk about that after the show.
All right.
Cowboys fall in their final game of the regular season. Nineteen vote for Darren Woodson, please do so.
Twenty eight.
Yep, that's why you wear the necklace. You're trying to get exact into canton uh reaction from Washington h Cowboys fall twenty three to nineteen in the final seconds of the twenty twenty four season. It was a bummer way to end it. I don't think there's a whole lot of people that were upset about it. At the end of the day, it was a game going into it. We all talked about it. It was a chance to evaluate, got to see Trey Lance quite a bit, got to
see Jonathan Mingo, got to see Deuce Fawn. Finally you got to see all these guys play a little extra snaps up front, and I thought you still got what you needed to out of that game. You had a chance to win it against a playoff team that played their starters for the first half, made some switches in the second half, and honestly, you played really well against their starters in the first half with your reserves and your depth, so lots to come out of that. Your thoughts after the.
Loss, well, first and foremost, I think that Mike Zimmer might be kryptonite to Jaydeon Daniels. I mean, outside of the the Terry McLaurin pass late in the first matchup, he's more or less shut down Jaydon Daniels. It took Marcus Mariota to enter in the game for the Commanders that have any kind of juice offensively.
To tell he was trying to yeah, oh yeah, yeah, he had a vendetta.
Absolutely, it was trying to make something happen so interesting there. That was a big takeaway for me, is like, you know, as much as some other defensive coordinators have been trying
to figure out Jaydon Daniels. Mike Zimmers had his number from day one, so intriguing, and I wouldn't you know, mind putting that in the category of pros versus cons As far as if you're going to bring zimber bag, he clearly has the number of the franchise quarterback of a rival you're going to play multiple times a year for the next several years, so keep that in mind. But I'm going to circle to Trey Lance. Finally we get not only Trey Lance as a starter, we get
a full game to evaluate Trey Lance. I've been standing here pleading for months now to see it. What never said?
I know, man burn all.
The receipts, I saw good and I saw bad from Trey Lance, which was expected. I didn't expect that he would go out there and light up the school board to the tune of forty one points.
Josh, Hey, you know, but I would have liked if those were touchdowns instead of field goals. Been a little closer for Yeah, a little.
Baby puts it in when you have gold to go on more than just one occasion out of the several.
Chances you got into the red zone quite a few times.
Did he used his legs, which we knew was going to happen. He looked great doing so. Some of his throws were more crisp than I than I expect. He had some good accuracy in that first half, that's a zip. He had some good accuracy, some anticipation some of those throws. But in the second half, when he was tasked with applying touch to those passes, it reared its head again, which is that's what he's been struggling with. And I've
been saying that since training camp. We've talked about it since training camp when it comes to those those fades, which is why I couldn't understand why the Cowboys kept calling the fades the and then I.
Mean, I know it was just a mistake, but the one di Rico daddle and.
I felt so bad.
Yeah, but you know what helps, Yeah, it's true, man, yea, let me.
So come on, t I mean, was it perfect. Absolutely not. We didn't expect that it would be, but he did show me. I could honestly sit here and say he showed me enough to in Fred since the two way Street, so he would have to want to come back. But from a front office standpoint, based on that game, I would be willing to welcome him back at a reasonable price for that QB two battle for twenty QB two.
That that second point is very important.
Reasonable price, reasonable price, Yeah, of course, very very true.
I think I'm there too. The timing was one of the things, Josh. I'm sure you'll allude to this too, but the timing was off a bit in some of the throws. He whenever it comes to the cannon that he has, doesn't matter, it's still going to happen. Like he's still got arm velocity, he's got the accuracy at times. It's anytime you've got a finesse. He doesn't have that element to his game, and the timing is a part of that.
But I will say Jonathan Mingo had his best game as a cowboy.
What do you know? What do you know?
What happens when you get a good pass?
More than one exactly?
And I've interpret some things.
To me, it felt like Trey Lance had more juice, I mean overall than what Kooper Rush was bringing you. Granted, you're getting more of a conservative I don't want to say bus driver flippantly, but that's kind of what you get from a Cooper Rush, right, And we talked about it several times where you're not seeing the zip on Cooper Rush's throws, whereas for Trey Lance, you were seeing
him throw the ball down the field. You were getting multiple opportunities for guys like Cavante Turpin, multiple opportunities for guys like Jonathan Mingo. There was juice there, and I would have killed to have seen that develop over several games versus one single game. However, if you're Trey Lance, do you in the now where we're talking free agency? Right, if you are Trey Lance, do you not feel like you might have a better shot staying here at QB
two then restarting with a brand new coaching staff. I mean, well, I don't know, starting over, I know, right, and maybe a new coaching staff to begin with anyways, So I don't know. I just feel like.
Build on this man to answer your question, and I'll throw it to tell me. If I'm Trey Lance, I'm going really for a couple of reasons. One, if I were literally Trey Lance, I'm looking at it as you finally gave me the start in week eighteen. However, why not give me the opportunity when we were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, even if it was not a little bit more than a package here there, but zero reps
is crazy. But also when you consider the fact that in speaking with Trey Lance after the game and going into this offseason, though when I asked him, he did say he is still not focused on free agency, so as recently as right after the game, he was like, I'm still right where I am. I need to do some reflection on the season. But he also said he's
looking forward to an opportunity. That stuck with me because the question then becomes the opportunity to be what is an opportunity to remain a QB two and maybe be someone's QB three if they don't feel like they want to compete with the QB two. If it's for a chance, even a remote chance to be QB one, that's not
happening here. So if I'm Trey Lance, and that opportunity that I'm looking for is at least a I don't want to say fair, but at least an open opportunity to battle for QB one somewhere, that's I'm going really quickly.
If you are another two, I mean, I granted, maybe we're too close to the cowboy situation of it all. But I don't think he has a QB one.
I'm not saying, hey, I'm not saying he has a And.
I don't think anybody takes a mill again on like the one game that he gave you to say, oh well, let's give him a shot at QB one. I think his best scores of action would be to stay. But then again, I am very biased.
But I see what you're saying. So let me clarify. I mean contextually speaking, so from a Trey Lance standpoint, if he's talking about an opportunity to compete for QB one, not necessarily right off the bat, because he's not going to have this influx of NFL teams that are beating down his doing free agency. Let's be clear on that.
But if it's a way two or three, and it may, and if it is those two or three, you look at those two or three, and you look at the starting QB situation and you say, is that a Dak Prescott? Is that a Patrick Mahomes? Is that a tool? If the answer is no, no, no, is that a CJ. Stroud. If the answer is no, no, no, no no, then you have a chance. You go in knowing that you're likely QB two in those two or three situations, but you have your eye open to say I can probably beat out QB one.
But are you looking at Dak Prescott in terms of health saying like, hey, man.
Oh, I mean that's a different that's a conversation, a different conversation. I mean, the contract for Dak has him here, of course, ever, but you could look elsewhere and say, okay, is that an aging quarterback too? Of course, guys that are out what I mean, bad example, because he's an unrestricted free agent. But let's say Aaron Rodgers returns to New York. That's example, and then he returns to New York, and then there's a second opportunity at the quarterback spot there.
Maybe Trey Lance is out there.
You've got next up, guarantee. I don't know if Trey Lance has earned that opportunity yet. From an NFL wide standpoint, I'm curious to see what you think.
I don't think so, and I don't think he put enough on tape on Sunday to warrant that either. I think you guys make good points. When I look at Trey Lance. This is a guy who has not played a lot of football in his career. When you think back to his days in college and in the NFL. Now, this is a guy who, simply put is very raw, and that's why Dallas took him because they wanted to see what could happen when they baked him a little
bit and see what the product was. I don't think it was an awful product on Sunday, and I don't think that he's just been sitting there all this entire time. I think there has been some development during his time here. But when you look at that game on Sunday, like Patrick said, there was good, there was bad. Easy passes like the end zone that he underthrows, you've got to make those. You just have to make those. I thought there were some instances where he had running room in
front of him. I mean, all we've talked about with adding Trey Lance to the folded quarterback has been using his legs.
As psych he took him the second half.
He's got six carries for twenty six yards. I think he could have easily had fifty to fifty five sixty yards in this game if he tucks a couple more and takes off.
Yeah, and so that QB two opportunity.
I don't know if it's here, because I think Cooper Rush gives you the better opportunity to win as a backup quarterback because he's already done it for you. It's not fun football all the time because it's more of just to manage the game, push the ball downfield, stick to the script type deal. But if it's winning you football games, that's what he's done and until he proves you otherwise, I don't know.
Why Philadelphia, and also really.
Quick unless it's Philadelphia, since.
That Cooper Rush point. Cooper Rush has already felt what it's like to be on a different team, and I don't think he wants to go through that again.
That didn't happen very well, right.
He's extremely comfortable here, even if there's a change of head quotes. The quarterback is still Dak Prescott and they have a great relationship, and Cooper Rush is going to likely accept the veteran minimum to remain here. So that sounds delicious for a front office that's pushing the cap issue as something to content with.
It's also a front office that's trying to prove that the fourth round pick that they sent to San Francisco was worth it at the same time.
So there's there's elements to really trying to prove that he would have start.
Started a long time ago. I agree, trust me.
I will say I think there are a lot of situations where Trey Lance can really excel. Sure, I just don't know if it's here.
And that's where I am with it. Yeah, so the I'm Trey Lance, that's how I feel. I don't know if this is the fit for me right.
A couple of things that add there. I think based off of what we saw on Sunday, Trey Lance is an NFL quarterback right, Yes, playing and simple, he is an NFL quarterback, just not a store not a starter. That's kind of and where where we are there's still that possibility because there were flashes of it. And there's always the athleticism side of things too that I think you have to keep in mind. You bring up a
great point, the timidness to run. I wish Isaiah was here for this, because Isaiah was a dual threat quarterback in his own right, and he was talking about it on Sunday when we were watching the game. He was saying, I think they have told him they want to see
him as a passer. He's like, because when you're a running quarterback and you're told all your life going up into the NFL, run when you need to run, when you need to run, when you need to Then you get to the NFL and you face guys that are much more athletic than what you've seen in the past, and they say, we need you to stop running. Your instincts go away. Yeah, there were a couple of times.
You go back on film, there was the sact that he took where he's statued statued up, but then you could see there was a moment, there's a moment in his head where the instincts kicked in. He took a step, but then he sat down and he sat in it. So there are times in that game and you can go back and watch it. Go find the film where he takes a step and that instinct is there. You
could see it. Run run, run, run and run. But he pulls back and then because his voice is correct, because he's being told, we want to see what you can do as a pocket passer in the NFL against defenses, against pass rush, how do you avoid it? Did a great job on the play. The Rico Dattle to avoid the pass rush. He was swarmed behind the line of scrimmage, had a brilliant move that was Trey Lancel was like, this is the play, and then it just fluttered to
the ground and it was unfortunate. So that's the microcosm. If you could take the entirety of Trey Lance's NFL career, both in San Francisco and in Dallas right now, put it into one play, it would be that Rico Doubtle play, athleticism, talent, vision, all sorts of society. But then it just still doesn't click and it still doesn't happen. So I'm interested. He's one of the more intriguing storylines going into the off season and an off season full of storylines. But it's
interesting because he could be one of those guys. I mean, we're looking at across the NFC playoff put picture right now, how many of those guys that are currently quarterbacks in a playoff picture right now are thrown away by their not original teams, but other teams along the way. You've got Jared Goff as the number one seed. You've got Sam Darnold as a possible MVP. Conversation you've got Baker Mayfield, who was on the Carolina Panthers backing up Andy Dalton
like a year and a half ago. Like, there's all of these things that are playing a factor. I don't know if I'm ready to give up on Trey Lance just yet. And he shouldn't be as a team.
He's shown he's worth further development. Yes, as a player. If I'm Trey Lance, I just got to feel like there's a potentially better fit some world and.
Maybe a better price too.
If they're telling him not to run at all costs, I think that you're cutting him off the knees. You're selling that is just that second.
I almost jumped out of the press box window, like I was just like, you gotta be kidding me. He had the green there, and if he takes that, he's probably in the one yard line and his fourth and short. Now we've seen how that happened. But nonetheless, maybe you scored, whatever the case, don't stat up in that situation. And that's a good point. Go back and look at the film. He stuttered and then stood back up.
And you're taking away one of the reasons you have him on the team. One of the reasons he exists as a player.
The reason he was the second most impressive quarterback in that game was because look at what Marcus Mariota did with his life. Came out right playing in Marcus Mariota.
Did a good thing.
Arrows, He made some great throws.
Don't get me wrong, he was definitely playing.
Yeah. Play of his game was the fourth and one that he took off.
The yeah, that's what you can do with Trey Lance is basically so Mariota versus Tree Lance. It was the battle of free agency backups. That's basically because they were both battling to try to make themselves valuable.
And Marcus mariotas Marcus, Yes you did, Marcus. Marcus Mariota is a QB two with with starter upside, whereas Trey Lance is a QB two with developmental upside. That's part of what perfect I looked at it out of this. All right, let's take our first break when we come back. Trey Lance is not the only decision that the Cowboys are going to have to make over the next few
weeks and door months. We've got one coming up that's got a deadline of January fourteenth, and somebody's already knocking on the door to talk to Mike McCarthy when we come back. What does the coaching situation look like with more talking cowboys. If you're looking for fresh American roasted coffee that gives back, you need to head to your local grocery store and pick up a bag of Black Rifle Coffee. That's right, America's coffee is now available in
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It is presented by Black Rifle Coffee. Of course, got our Black Rifle because we're going to need some of that throughout this offseason. The Chicago Bears had a little Black Rifle Coffee up in the Windy City past weekend, did they yeah? Early morning hours the day after the Cowboys were eliminated from the twenty twenty four campaign, the Chicago Bears reported to have asked for permission to talk to Mike McCarthy. They said, we're not going to wait
until this January fourteenth deadline. We would like to throw out a possible request to talk to your head coach.
Now, yeah, make a decision.
Is what January sixth and they're deciding to invade our building?
I don't know, n goes the star Baby. Is that the first time that's happened.
I think so.
There's not any other time that that could but the Yeah, that's exactly what they did. They sent an insurrection of sorts.
If you will.
Trying to talk to our head guy for sure.
Uh, I don't even know where.
To go for me.
Yeah, that's why.
It'll be interesting to see if the Cowboys use this, uh, this window of exclusivity to try to hammer out a deal. If they decided they're going.
To keep away, they accept it, right.
No, I wouldn't say so, because if you're even considering keeping him around, you you use this window in your your favor. You don't just let someone invade and give him for me? No, no, no, you wait until Jamiary fourteen. Let us have our conversation. I know you do, because he a decision made.
Like yes, yesterday or last week or already.
And I'm with you, and he's on record saying that would have happened last week.
But I would say, and we've said this on this on this panel before, when I was naming some teams that when I said free agency is a two way street, not just for players but for coaches alike. Okay, So, for as much as the Cowboys need to decide on miche McCarthy, Mike McCarthy needs to decide on the Cowboys. This is not a Jason Garrett situation. This is not Jason Garrett situation where there was no interest from it. Any other other third said that as far as the
head coaching position is concerned, this is different. Mike McCarthy has actual value. He's coming. He re established a culture with the Cowboys. Playoff clature didn't get reestablished fair enough, I agree, But three twelve and five seasons becomes one of the winningest coaches in Cowboys franchise history. He has the Super Bowl ring shining on his finger. He's shown that he can hit the reset button for your franchise,
whatever your franchise might be. That's going to be very intriguing for teams like Jacksonville, New Orleans and the Chicago Bears. And it just makes sense for me. The New Orleans Saints. He has history there, He's a former oc there. Okay, I don't know that he would deal with what's going on in Jacksonville because Trent balk is still out there
and that's just a toxic situation. But the Bears intrigued me, and that's why that was the lead horse for a team that would come after McCarthy in my eyes that I said a few weeks ago. Number one, it puts him a geographically closer to home. His family is still in green Bay still, right. Point Number two is that we all know how his time in Green Bay ended. This would give him an opportunity to play against the Bears twice a year for the next several years. Right
and then I had a court a thought. I think I said it to you, Temmy, I said it to someone if in fact the Mikes are a package deal, Mike McCarthy and Mike Zimmer To that same point, Mike Zimmer would be going back to the NFC North and he would get to exercise a vendetta against the Minnesota Vikings for multiple times a year for the next years. So it's a very intriguing standpoint. I want to get
the take of the Chicago native. What what what's the temperature of your home city as far as possibly bringing McCarthy in.
Well, it's cold. Here's the thing when I look at this, a couple things. First of all, the Bears have requested twelve head coaching yes, right now. Yeah, this is a wide net.
I've got a list. If you want me to listen, they're turning over everyone.
Actually, I would love for you to listen.
Okay. So these are the other interviews that the Bears
have requested. Brian Flores Vikings defensive coordinator, Aaron Glenn Lions defensive coordinator that has been accepted, Ben Johnson, offensive coordinator for the Lions, Mike Kafka, Giants OC Mike McCarthy, Cowboys head coach Todd Monkin, Raven's offensive coordinator Drew Petsig, Cardinals OC David Shaw, former Stanford head coach and current Broncos executive Arthur Smith, Steelers offensive coordinator Anthony Weaver, Dolphins defensive coordinator Mike Vrabel, former Titans head coach.
That one has also been scheduled. Yeah, so I think Ben Johnson's probably the leader in the clubhouse there. When when I look at this situation, I understand why the Cowboys right now aren't letting, aren't accepting that because he's you know, he's still under that period until the fourteenth. I think they'd be doing Mike McCarthy a massive disservice if they were to go through this next seven days and not have any intention of bringing him back. I'm
not saying that's what's happening. I'm just saying that's something to keep an eye on. So the fact that nothing has agree more time, the fact that nothing has been accepted, tells me at least that there's interest in retaining Mike McCarthy's head coach. So the other part of this is when you look at the fit in Chicago, my thing is, are the Bears going to be willing to bring somebody who frankly owned them for a majority of a decade plus to try and turn this frand to try to
turn the franchise around. I think Mike McCarthy would be a good fit in Chicago because he's he's got a track record of developing quarterbacks. Kali Williams call a guy and right, he's gotten comparisons to Aaron Rodgers. He's said he's idolized Aaron Rodgers and how he tries to play the game. So that's there, But I'm not so sure that Mike McCarthy is very high on the list of candidates for them at this point in time, because when you think about the Bears in the past too, they've
always been a defense heavy franchise. That's been their bread and butter. They want to play good defense and they want to run the football.
How does that work for them since it hasn't worked well at all?
You know, Like I said, I think Ben Johnson's the leader in the clubhouse, but they're also just casting a wide net. So it doesn't shock me at all that McCarthy's on that list. And I'm sure there will be other teams that throw their hat in the Mike McCarthy circle, But at least from right now, with nothing at all being said about we've granted Mike McCarthy the permission to do this interview. That tells me that there's interest in bringing him back.
It just sounds like they're turning over every rock, which is what they should do when you're in that position of need, when you're in position of trying to rebrand the identity of your team. Possibly, I think that's a great way to go about it. But you said, uh, you know, Mike McCarthy basically owned Chicago Bears for a good time whenever he was with the Packers. The Cowboys were in a similar situation too.
I mean, he won a.
Super Bowl here h and Aaron Rodgers and the Packers did a lot of the unkind things to the Dallas Cowboys with Mike McCarthy as coach. So we were sort of in a situation where we're like, Okay, if you can't beat them, get them, Yeah, yeah, bring them on, bring them on. But then again, you have to consider Mike McCarthy's record against the Packers since leaving the Packers has not been great. Man, He's not performed very well, especially a certain wild card game from last season.
I want to talk about this, stop it and you can make an argument that the NFC and NORSE is the toughest division.
Yes right now, now, yes see, But that's you got to keep that in mind too. In a different way, thing, Ebb and flow in the NFL all the time right now, right this second, the Vikings, the Lions and the Packers are just all juggernauts, and they're beating up on each other, and they're beating up on the Bears and they're beating up on all the other teams in the NFC. But within four to five years, when you've got a fully developed Caleb Williams, you've got a fresh roster of young
talent and guys that you can go get. They have some salary crap cap room to keep that in mind, Cowboys salary, that's what it is in Dallas right now.
But that's.
So the fact that Mike has already been told by the front office the same way Steven Jones has told everybody else, we don't have money to spend this offseason, which is true. They are strapped in terms of the salary cap. When you get to the salary cap in Chicago, it's not nearly as bad. It's not perfect either, it's about halfway, but you've got some room to move. You've got a young quarterback and at some point you will be that juggernaut.
But you know they don't have in Chicago. You don't have a an established all pro quarterback which some years left not yet but not yet that he's built to Kyle Yoman's always say it hasn't happened.
It hasn't happened, but he's built two of them. You got to give him credit. He built dac first got into an All Pro fair and he helped build h Aaron.
Oh, I mean they have it.
Who's there, Michael Parsons, Eric Keenan Allen, who's the on over show?
I mean they have they have a couple of pieces. So now, and what we're doing is, yeah, so we're doing it from a POV from McCarthy right now, folks, is what we're saying right now. So if you're McCarthy, yeah, these are some things that you're waning. And I'm not saying that he would wave off Chicago because they don't have as many of the cornerstone pieces as the Cowboys have.
But it is a rightful conversation for a guy who has so many years in the league, and you have to start wondering at this point, this is fair wonder how many more years McCarthy wants to coach in the league. Right So maybe he feels like he and this is just speculative, maybe he feels like he doesn't want to do a hard reset with a particular team or any particular team. So these are all things that McCarthy is going to mole in his head, is what I'm.
Saying, and he goes back to what Tommy said, that's this is all speculative.
If he's even the choice in Chicago, Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn, that's one A and one B on anyone's list who's looking for him for sure, and then the rest includes McCarthy is like in the group of the conversation, Tier B, you know what I mean.
I think Mike still got a lot left in the tank, and I think he takes pride in being a builder. He talked about that postgame after Washington. He really enjoys building a program from the ground up. You could argue he did that in Green Bay. Obviously, they're one of the historic franchises in the NFL. The Bears are too. The issue with the Bears is they've whiffed on their head coaching hires, they've whiffed on their general manager hires,
and it's just kind of been a mess. There's never been alignment, I don't think in Chicago, and some of the draft choices that they've made, like this past year, taking you know, Rama Donze instead of maybe there's an offensive a lignement on the board who could have helped you out there. They have the worst offensive line in the NFL this year, maybe one of the worst offensive
lines time. I mean, it was just terrible to watch the Caleb Williams was one of, if not the most sacked quarterbacks in the NFL.
He was the most.
I think it was a record to Aaron Rodgers.
I think was was he.
I think he was the most sack.
Of the Regardless regardless of the case, they've got to draft better, there's got to be alignment. It doesn't they just have to hit this head coaching higher or else. It's just going to be the same sort of cycle that they've gotten themselves into, where you know, you've got your quarterback who is dealing with a new head coach every two years. He's dealing with a new GM every year, and that's just, you know, not sustainable for an NFL.
Williams was sacked sixteen more times than any other quarterback this year. So you're thinking all time, all time.
Yes, now we're plv in from Chicago. If I'm Chicago, I'd love how they're handling it. As far as due diligence cast a wide knit, that's just the wise thing to do. But the possibility of having a chance to cripple the Detroit Lions by pulling away either Aaron Glenn or Ben Johnson. Blank you blank checked that. Yeah, you just slapped Ben Johnson.
A blank checking Johnson should get over and you know they've got the personnel I think in Detroit and Johnson done, what has he done?
What is he doing?
Scoring forty?
Yeah? I think Ben Jonson, he plays that look really impactful.
I think, well, I think part of the reason for Ben Johnson's success too is the personnel that he's got. But that is credit to to him. The way Detroit has built their roster through the draft and through free agency.
He turned him on the Saint Brown, a fourth round pick into one of the top five or six receivers in the NFL.
But that's what happens when you've got alignment from the top down. And so that's what you need for really for any NFL franchise, you're owner, general manager, and head coaching to all be on the same page and I'll be moving forward together when it comes to personnel, coaching, hires and things of that.
And I could hear so many killboys fans right now.
Allow me to megaphone what fans think you're saying that, do you feel that's the situation here in Dallas right now? Right now they're in alignment.
If they bring Michae McCarthy back, that shows me that there is alignment. Yes, that there is alment sense of I believe in what you're doing. I believe in what your scheme looks like. I believe in what your personnel decisions look like. That that would be my proof of there's a line, because you'd be going on to year with six or year year six of the same program, the same way of doing things, and for a majority of the same personnel.
I think for the most part they have been in alignment, which is why they were twelve and five, twelve and five twelve five exactly align. I think what this season did was expose the the part that was misaligned, which is personnel decessions right depth. Jerry Jones himself, who does a lot of spaghetti talking right, was very definitive when asked after the game after the finale if he regrets the personnel decisions not giving Mike McCarthy the roster that
he feels Mike because should have had. He said yes, he said that's fair. So when you hear the owner and general manager admitting that the personnel decisions could have been better. Maybe they could have attacked free agency a little bit better, Maybe they could have done this, could have done that. I think that's the misalignment. So when I pose the question for the fans of is it like Detroit or can it be like Detroit where there's this straight line going down with no wiggle room Right now,
there's too much wiggle room in that one capacity. I think, what's the word I'm looking for? I think culturally, I think strategically, I think they're all on the same page, and they're on the same direction and they're moving in lockstep. But there's that disconnect with personnel as far as who Mike McCarthy would want to see added to the team versus who is not added to the team, and then who's added to the team instead of who Mike McCarthy might want added to the team.
And if they aren't aligned, they will be much aligned.
But you can how long did you sit on that?
You're sitting on it for a while. To wrap up that point, you can fix that this offseason, Yes you can, you definitely.
Can, But that's that's that's a promisory note. Yeah, well, because that's what you would be signing for Mike McCarthy. So if McCarthy decides if you want him back, and he decides to come back, he's basically asking you to sign a promisory note saying, when free agency and the draft arrive, this is what this is what I want. Give me what I want, Bautista, give me what I want.
So that's that's when he gets what he wants.
And maybe and even though the five seasons, maybe if he got I there's come on, I come on, I want to show this week.
I want Will McClay to get what he wants. In terms of the draft person the draft, I could care less what Mike McCarthy wants from a player personnel standpoint, as long as he's able to coach him and get him ready to go. There's been too much I think over the last two years coach intervention in the draft process. But don't talk about that on the draft shows. At some point down the line, like balance wise, totally fine. Yeah,
there's Draft eleven. I want if if you're bringing Will McClay back, and you're bringing him back for the long haul and Mike McCarthy's back, that's fine. I've already been on record to say it would be a mistake to get rid of Mike McCarthy. I stand by that right now. I don't think he should have the same say that he's had the last couple of years in terms of the draft process. Fair enough, that's where I record.
So I think I get.
Speaking balance because here's what balance. I get what balance gets you a safety position being revamped because of a guy like Dan Quinn. Sure, dan Quinn came in. Before dan Quinn, Cowboys couldn't get it at safety. Dan Quinn comes in, he gets them to reevaluate the imports of the safety position. That's what being in alignment compromise looks like. When you don't compromise and it's just only giving the scouts what they want and the coaches can't gel with
that personnel, you have a problem. And vice versa. Can give the coaches everything they want, but the scouts aren't really lought in.
But then you'll see a lot of what Mike McCarthy's done where it's like I don't know what to do with this guy.
Yes, inactive Trey Lance, see, but I mean ceedee lamb was that was a scout pick that Ceedee Lamb was a Scout pick. Michael Parsons was a Scout pick. Marvin Overshown was a win and a scout let them pick. There have been some other picks that haven't happened. Mike McCarthy wanted to run twelve personnel. That's why you have Luke Schoomaker in the second round, plain and simple. They wanted some of those other guys that are above them.
You have Luke Schoomaker because Mike McCarthy wanted Luke Schoomaker. At that point, you've got all these other picks along the way. Trey Smith scout pick that was not a Mike McCarthy pick. That was a scout pick.
Fair enough.
There's a lot of those things that in the past. I love Mike McCarthy in terms of what he can bring and make and mold out of what he's given in terms of a football team. We saw that down the stretch of last year and that's where my respect lines with Mike McCarthy. However, I'm reluctant to give him the keys to the entire busy. And that's what I was just.
Like, we're talking about this entire show alignment.
Everybody in the middle.
Everybody, Okay, all right, let's move on.
One more, one more break, one more segment here on this week of Talking Cowboys. When we come back, what are the priorities for the Cowboys this offseason? Where do we start in this long journey that we have ahead.
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To Talking Cowboys Back, You're Talking Cowboys.
This segment has brought to you by and visilining the official Smile of the Dallas cow Boys. Welcome back into the show. Patrick Knows so you Walker, Josh Roderiguez, Tommy Ours, Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeoman's wrapping up this one and only weekly edition of Talking cal.
Like do you we get to Yeah? Yeah, we fit it all in one episode.
It with your chest, you know, yeah, we do get the cram it all into. But then we got a wait forty fire week.
Forty five minutes snapshot.
Yeah, not forty five minutes, don't We're now.
Yeah, forty five minutes.
You kidding me?
I mean the next show that we're on has me and Tommy on it, so I guess we're just hurting ourselves at that point. All right, Uh? Priority the Wolves? Yes, Cowboys?
Wait, baby, what's your.
Priority this offseason? What's the first domino that needs to fall? And I'm not talking about coach or locol McClay, so wipe those off the board. We've talked about those enough. What's the ones thing outside of front office and or coaching moves that needs to happen?
Retain George Lewis resigned Geordan Lewis as soon aceptually to steal, to steal a phrase from my buddy Patrick here. To me, Jordan Lewis is one of the beating hearts of your defense. You don't have de Marvin overshown for the foreseeable future, not until late twenty five, according to the Marvin Overstone. To me, Jordan Lewis is giving you everything he deserves, the bag he deserves to be on this team. You do not want to lose a guy like Jordan Lewis.
To me, that is the guy that will truly get you where you want it.
And that's not gonna happen until the league year right free agency starts, because he's gonna see what.
And he deserves out there. He deserves to. But just make him priority.
You know one way you could keep Jordan Lewis and Osa Odigi Zuwa. By the way, this is my number one. Extend Micah and do it quickly. You can leave everything right now, exceptionally right now. Michael Parsons in his fifth year option, he said to hit the Cowboys cap for
over twenty one million dollars per over the cap. If you extend Michael Parsons right now, you not only don't suffer that twenty one million dollar hit, but you get sixteen point one million dollars in savings towards your salary cap. They're going to figure out the coming see but that hopefully so because right now the Cotton Bowl, at the Cotton they're gonna they're in the sweet together at the Cotton Bowl. And Jerry said he and Michael, yes, seriously, I love it. Get the deal done overs.
In Ohio state, Hey, get the deal done.
Both of their schools. Everybody wants to watch Texas.
It's not Arkansas and it's not Penn States.
Disagree, Yeah, get the deal done over some nachos by all means. But currently the Cowboys have seventeen million dollars in available cap space that will roll over to twenty twenty five if you get another sixteen million dollars toward that by extending Michael Parsons. This is money that goes potentially goes to Osa, potentially goes to Jordan Lewis and some of the other guys that you want to retain.
You have twenty two unrestricted free agents coming up, and not just not just Jags, not just the name, these are these are dogs, Okay, So you want to get that on Chauncey Ghost and being another name that comes to mind. So for me, extend Michael Parsons and get him done right now. And I love what Michael said in that he doesn't want to be in the way. Michael wants to get his deal done quickly because he wants that money to go towards helping to build the team.
So let's hope his agent feels that way.
I'm gonna take a moment here and play super duper Devil's advocate because I do not want this to happen. I want to preface this, but it has been a conversation. There was even an NFL Network report about it. Would you ever consider trading michaeh It have to.
Be the herschel Walker trade. It have to be just on I want your soul, like if I if I'm trading Michael Parsons, I want your soul. And if if that's if that's a non starter for you, don't even call it. Don't even call me.
So just play play along here. What would it take?
What would be what would have to the starter conversation is two first round picks. Okay, So that's that starts.
That's not the end.
That's not the end, okay, because you're gonna throw in maybe another mid rounder and probably a player of my picks within reason.
So okay, So you said no very quickly? Are you completely out?
Look a look at look at what happened to this defense when he came back.
Oh, I agree. That's why I said, I want your soul wants us to play along.
I'm trying to. I'm trying to play Devil's advocates. I'm not playing at all.
That's not fair.
You can't three ones and Patrick Mahomes.
We'll see. There's nobody with multiple ones this year, at least at the moment.
So, I mean, I want your soul, but Cal wants me to play along. If I'm to play along, that's my price. But I'm not playing along in real life.
So yeah, No, Let's say I'm trying to think. I don't even know who would who would have Lawrence Taylor. Let's say Jacksonville. Jacksonville is trying to make a statement. They've already got one edg Rusher and Walker on the outside that they feel really confident in. They've got a quarterback. They don't have to have their fifth overall draft pick this year. Jacksonville comes, they offer you five this year, they offer you two future first round picks.
Would you do it?
Would you think about it? That's three first round picks and the top five for sure this year, and you can't current you get to keep twelve too, where you picked Micah back in twenty twenty one.
Okay, my answer is still no, but I haven't hung up the phone yet either.
Okay, what about those three first and we'll throw REI who's their top received? I don't even know, so no, I'm there, Okay, second receiver, they're not trading him Christian Kirk.
Yeah.
Yeah, they throw in Christian Kirk to a veteran receiver that you could possibly use.
No, no, no, okay, I don't like this game anymore.
I agree. I don't want to just extend him.
Get the money, use the money in and let's cook.
Where's your priority, Tommy.
I think they'd have a good draft when they When I look back at this past year draft, there's some good picks there. Cooper BB had a fantastic season. I like what Marshaw Neeland did when healthy. Marys Lee if has got a really bright future. Still unclear of what Tyler Guidon looks like. Yes, still very unclear on what that looks like. I'd like to see him get a full training camp in, be fully healthy, and it might be you know, shuffling him around and seeing if maybe
there's a spot replays better. Bottom line is, I'm a believer in that you put your best five out there, yes, regardless of you can't be too strict and assigning certain spots.
You got to have your best five out there. So I'm looking at a better draft this time around and seeing if not to again not to say that this past draft was something you just completely dump away It's only been one season, and you know, Ryan Flinoy, Nathan Thomas, Justin Rogers, still Kaylin Carson even still have time around to develop. He is back, still have time to prove something. But after these rookie seasons, you know, only three of
your picks really standing out. I think you got to be better this time, and all with some level of question mark exactly exactly, which is typical for for for rookie Harry typical. Again, don't don't take this as me being overly critical, but I think you got to be much stronger.
This time, by the way, Marshaw naland scout pick and Marris leaf out scout pick. So keep that in mind.
We all have that conversation for the twenty twenty three draft class. What was that the twenty twenty three draft class. I'm interested, not now, but down the road scout picks his coaching pigs because I class did. Yeah.
Yeah, we can talk about that all right, more draft talk next, right, yeah, exactly, Yeah, day tune. We've got the Draft Show. First episode will be out if you're listening to this in post, it'll probably already be out on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. But we're going to the Draft Show. Tommy Yursh is going to be on the Draft Show this year, maybe looking forward to it. Man, I'm really another member of the Talking Cowboys family. Nick
Harris returns. You've got Brian broad Us, You've got Foch Lombardi, god, Zach Wolschew, Bobby Belt, We've got the It's basically the Avengers of Draft Cut. It's gonna be fun, So let's get it going. We've got the Draft Show coming up. But that does it for us here on Talking Cowboys, presented by Black Rifle Coffee. We will be back next Tuesday.
This is our normal time Tuesday at ten am Central Time for Patrick noc Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Tomyrish, Chris Beam in the backup Kyle Yoman saying so long with singing next week on Talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallascowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.