Talkin' Cowboys: Adjusting On Defense?

s WBC Mortgage studios for me. We've got virtual studios for Rob Phillips, Isaiah Stanback, our resident Super Bowl Champion, and we've got heck My Harrison joining as always. Boys Camp is here. We're in the padded practices where four practices into twenty twenty Dallas Cowboys Training Camp and Rob, it just feels great to finally be back at the Star and having football action being played. It's just great to see your face in person, Kyle. I saw you

down the hall just a second ago. Really great to see you with the mask on. We're massed up in here. It's very different. Uh, the media access is different. It's the new normal for us. But yes, I told Dave down the hall a minute ago. I hate taking role during training camp. Usually it's eighty ninety guys. I've never looked forward to having a roster in my hand so much and just be able to just watch football. It's it's it's been great so far. Different, not great. We're

not trying to brag to heck mine. Yes, yes, it's not say it all because we've been filling you guys in. You've been up on top of things as well. But heck, I know you from a fan standpoint that have just been itching for the day to learn more, to find out more about this Cowboys team. Where you're finally getting that opportunity. Well, look, man, it's it's all about the fact that training camp has started. All of these mysterious things have started to happen. You're starting to see all

of the battles, position battles starting to take shape. So absolutely, I'm ecstatic about it from that standpoint. But man, I'm flying blind right now because I can't watch what you watch. Prey. Hey, it's just a matter of time, man, It is a matter of time till we all get back together, I promise you it is. We're counting down the days to do that as well, so that way you all can join us here and they ask to BBC Mortgage Studios.

But Isaiah, from a players standpoint, now that if things have kicked off, what's that excitement like building up to training camp, especially whenever you've had a crazy off season, none of which have been as crazy is this one. But when you have a crazy off season that you've had to deal with, what's that anticipation like to getting back to football? Yeah, you just want to get back to some form of normalcy, right, especially in the off

season that these guys have had, it's been everything but normal. Right. So for the veterans, these guys are familiar with what it typically should be like, so they're excited just to be back on site with coaches, you know, in the regular your regular regiment, right, your regular schedule. And for the new guys, these guys they don't know any better, right, They don't know any different at all, So this is

all brand new to them. But this is awesome. I know these guys are can't you know, could be more ecstatic about getting together and just you know, they can't put COVID behind them because they're still in it, right.

But things are getting back to the way that which they're familiar with, which is, you know, going out there, putting some pads on and running around the field, no doubt, And that's the biggest thing, is finally getting back to football and kind of getting into the groove of things again. And I think that's something that everybody looks forward to, media, player, coaches,

everyone after what has happened in our society lately. But one unfortunate news event has happened throughout training camp this offseason, or at least through the last couple of days. Gerald McCoy out for the season with a rupture to write quad tendon. It was confirmed by Stephen Jones yesterday. Just kind of a freak accident injury in the middle of individual one on one drills, Antoine Woods doing his drill. Gerald McCoy was working in a role as the offensive

lineman as a blocker, just stepped wrong. Ultimately, is what it was. Robin and kind of go into the details of this injury and what this is going to do. What is this going to do for this defensive line moving forward? Well, it's definitely, according to Stephen Jones, this is gonna put Gerald McCoy out for the season. You know, they do have those designated to return irs, but it looks like, you know, he's gonna have surgery today and he will miss the rest of this entire season. And look,

Mike McCarthy. I asked Mike McCarthy an hour before the injury happened and talk about what an impact he's already had on the younger guys on the defensive line. He's such a leader, he's a six time Pro bowler. They I mean, he was the first guy that they targeted in free agency. So it's a big loss and it means that they're going to have to adjust. You know, Tyrone Crawford is probably the guy you look at first because of his experience and the fact that he can

play play anywhere. And they're gonna be looking forward to getting don Terry Poe back into practice soon. But beyond that, I know we've talked about younger guys Isaiah and Heck, it's Nevill gallilor their third round pick. It's Tristan Hill, their second round pick, who's getting more work now with the defensive line, they're gonna get opportunities, and there's not a preseason for those guys to really show out. They're gonna have to show in practice that they can they

can take those snaps and earn those snaps. But I look at TC first as the guy that that's probably gonna get more run here. Yeah, I believe that the absence of Eryld McCoy, it's gonna be it's gonna be huge, right only to the standpoint of the intangibles. He's a proven veteran coach. Mike McCarthy said it in this pressor, you know, a perennial pro bowler. Uh, it's the leadership, It's the things that he's doing with those younger guys.

But make no mistake about it, man, there are some quality reps right now for some younger guys, and I look for Tristan Hill to take it full advantage of the opportunity and also Neville Gallimore having that opportunity to you know, turn that corner and have an opportunity to learn this defense firsthand with the ones. But you say it, said it right, Rob Tyl Crawford is big time in the fact that he can He's multifaceted and can play

a lot of positions. So his value add just went up. Yeah, fellas, I mean man, it sucks, you know, and having been a former player and having been somebody who's dealt with some serious injuries in the past, Um, it's it's not a good place to be right now, you know, especially this time in his career where he act he came here, or a chance of the Super Bowl, right So that's

and that's taken completely away from him. Um. I had an opportunity to reach out to one of my former doctors, doctor Kelly Ryder of the Writer Clinic, and just talked to him about the injury, and he was talking about how how how integrated the muscle group is, you know, from that quadrant of going down into that kneecap, and how this is one of those deep, uh in you know, inner layer muscle groups that is really hard to deal

with based upon what we've seen on film. And you know, I just want to send prayers up and hope that he gets back as healthy as possible. But it sounds like it looks like he's gonna be out for about six to six to twelve months, depending on how serious of surgery is. Once we get the MRI and back, we'll have a better idea. But as you guys are already attested to. There's opportunity to get better, you know for guys. You know, you know we talked about Gallimore,

you talked about Hell. You know these guys are you know, this isn't the way in which they wanted to have more reps. But let's be honest, most of the guys that have stepped up to the plate in this league and became big players that they got their opportunities from guys ahead of them has sustaining injuries. So um, not

the way in which they wanted to go. But you know, there's an opportunity for guys to come out show who they are, show that they're prepared and go out there and make and you know it's we've talked, go ahead, go ahead. Well I was just gonna say to add on to what happened yesterday. It was disappointing for sure. And I know we've talked about soft tissue injuries being a possibility with guys having so much time off. I

think this was just a freak thing. You know, he got his he got his foot stepped on by Antoine Woods, and I know they were on turf, they were inside at Fort Center and they were again today. I don't think it had to do with where they were or the time off for Jerry McCoy. It's just it just like Isaiah said, it just sucks. It happens. Tyrone Crawford got hurt the first day at training camp six seven years ago, and it's just it's just a cruel fact

of the game. Yeah, Rob And just to give everybody a little bit better idea of kind of what happened. And for those that's seen the film, it kind of looked like he just failed right from the outside in. But as you watched a drill, you know, you see McCoy going back right and then you see the gentleman comeback step on his foot. Right, think about if you're going backwards and somebody steps on your foot, your initial reaction is to do what's to seize up right and

stop yourself from going back. When you have that much power, when you have another three hundred pound man stepping on you, you you get that concentric reaction like that that that tended pulled exactly pulled right from behind his knee and popped, and that's exactly what happened. So it sucks. It absolutely sucks. But it like like you detested to you know, I talked about how there's gonna be a lot of soft tissue injuries all around the league, and you're starting to

see it already in the first week of practice. But this is not that. This is just something that was just freaking freak accident is and where you don't have a ton of that. Is there anything ultimately that you can do Isaiah as a what does a freak accident ultimately do? Do it? Nah? Absolutely not. I Mean the only thing I tell people all the time for some of the injuries I sustained, you can't control things that happened to you. You can only control how you react

and how you respond to them. So him being the leader on the team, you're already hurt. In the interview earlier in the week about Loony Looney was was yelling at the Mountain tops about how big of a leader Corey wasn't. How much of a positive impact he's already had on the team. Um, And you know, so I think his role now becomes get healthy and to be that mental, that mentor and the mental and that leader on that defense to help help those young guys come

together and really go out there and performing. Yeah. Absolutely, freak accident, and I hate to see anything that as far as a friendly fire situation like that. When I saw the video of it, it I don't know. I didn't want to see him go down like that. I was like, well, it's his knee. How did that happen? And that just shows you, man, how you know a friendly fire freak accident like that where he's simulating basically a dummy for that play and he gets hurt on it.

That is absolutely not what you want to hear as a Cowboys fan here and that he got hurt like that, But again, so is life, and Gerald McCoy is so. I mean, I saw a video of him this morning going into surgery and his thing was, man, I'm still smiling, he you know, saying Cowboy Nation, I'm here for you. I know you guys are you know, we got a ship to win and I'm just excited about his recovery

and next year. But make no mistake about it, we have a ton of depth at the defensive line position and guys that can play multiple positions and move around. And I think you'll see that as well with Everson Griffin coming into the fold, that leadership that we were going to be looking for for McCoy will get that with get Griffin. But and I have to say this, Rob that you know, Crawford is that guy that has been you know, the straw that stirs the drink for

the Cowboys defensive line. And so he is the guy that definitely leadership qualities are gonna be you know, on full tilt and display through camping, through the season. Yep, oh looks like we lost. We lost, Like okay, we love, we love hire. You're man there it is, man, the deepens of line is, the depth is It's what it is. Just for you, Robin, You've talked about Crawford and his

leadership ability, you know, kind of expand on that. Well, I think he's been I think Isaiah said, what do you guys called him a swift Swiss army knife early in the offseason. That's exactly what he is. I mean, he can play four or five techniques on this defense,

played pretty much anywhere you need him to play. And I think, you know, for me personally, when I came back to the Cowboys, it was twenty fifteen and he was getting a new contract right then, and I feel like a lot of fans have judged him off the

contract pretty harshly at times. It's not fair. I think the guy has played hurt, he's been productive, he's been a leader off the field, He's been a guy that's been someone that DeMarcus has really looked too in developing and learning to be a pro and be a pro bowler in this league. And I think, you know, I give him a lot of credit for coming back off the double hip surgery because that was not something easy

to go back from last year. But heck, I know Gallimore is a guy for you and I say it too. This is a guy that could have been drafted by the Cowboys in the second round. And McCarthy spoke to him having to play and maybe a little bit different style than he did at Oe You but I'm interested to see what he could do with some more reps as well. Yeah, the big Fellaws has a great shot. Right. We just talked about how many guys in the NFL's history has had a chance to come in and step

in and get reps early on. Right now, we did touch on the fact that there is no preseason, so that sucks, right, we don't get a chance to get him out there and kind of work him into the system and work him into being a pro. Now, you, young fellow, you just get thrown out there. So now you're you're you're a grown man. You know, you're you're

out of college. You're out there playing amongst grown human beings. Okay, these are not recolicized humans, but neither are you, right, So great opportunity for you to go out there and show who you are. You're you're a big fella, You're a strong fellow, You're versatile and um, you know what better company to be around. And the guys that are gonna be on each side of you on this defensive line. And then you look behind you and you got those three goons behind you as well, so you're not alone.

You don't have to do it alone. He's going to be surrounded by great support systems in terms of talent and a great amazing coaching staff and defensive coordinator. That's gonna put him in a position to be successful. Now, speaking of those three goons behind him, LV and Big Smooth, we've heard a lot of great things about these guys being active, flying around and just the defense giving these guys an opportunity to show exactly who they are. Robbed.

You're the only ones that gets an opportunity to see this, So you gotta tell me, you gotta Sell'm sorry, don't apologize now, but you gotta tell me. What's been your biggest impression of Layton vander esh and also Jaylen Smith and camp. Well, it's been good to see Layton back and he looks like himself. He's moving around great. But Jaylen Smith has been probably my biggest standout of the

training camp through what four practice this so far. He's been all over the field, guys, and he's been and I'm talking about cover situations too, where he's having to and it's he's either he's carrying a tight end down the field as he did with Blake Jarwin earlier today, or it's Zeke Elliott and he's he's busting up plays, moving forward screenplays, things of that nature. He's looking really active and effective. And you know they've talked about how

that that position switched. Guys, isn't necessarily a big thing between the two guys, but if he's going to be out of the box more and roaming more, it seems like he might be a great fit for him. Yeah, I feel like that's more his natural setting anyways, Right, I think his ability to be able to run around and make plays and just be free. And I think, you know, Nolan coming in and being a coordinatory is absolutely huge for his development because he's gonna have that freedom. Right.

We all know that Nolan likes the blitz, Right, Nolan likes the blitz. He's gonna lean on his guys to be athletic. Well, we know Jalen Smith is an athletic human being, So he's gonna have the opportunity to run around and be on the running backs, to be on the tight ends, to blitz off the edge, and to run sideline. The sideline that's where he's best at. Right. We put that we picked the wolf in the middle obviously,

and that we got Lee on the other side. So I think this group complements each other as well, and I think where these guys are sliding now allows for

them to excel to the best of their abilities. Now, I've said it before, and I've always felt as though the Cowboys got extremely lucky with getting Jaylor Smith out of Notre Dame because of that injury injury that he had, you know, completely terrible injury that he had in the bowl game, but he's showing you how he has healed from that drop foot injury and just seeing him out in coverage against Ezekiel Elliott the other day. Like you said, Rob, he is flying around and also making plays in the

run game as well. I mean, this is this telling us the type of coverages the Cowboys are gonna play when you're seeing him spending so much time one on one with running backs on is that just a part of the deal with him now being at the wheel linebacker.

I think it's just part of the deal. And I think there's gonna be times where he's in the box too, and he and Layton are probably switching up a little bit, but he's going to be in positions where he's gonna have to cover, and he's also going to be in those those blitz type positions as well, and I wouldn't

discount Layton or Sean Lee doing that as well. I think the key to this defense, and we've talked about it, is is disguising things and having guys play different spots, and you know, if they do change up some of their alignments, that's that's key because you don't know where those rushers are coming from and that's what's really exciting about it if they do change things up and make things a little more of disguising than they've done in

the past, which guys have alluded to in the interviews. Right, and Isaiah, you've played with a ton of great linebackers in your career. How do you, as far as Jane Lin Sumid comparison wise, when guys think you've seen and you went out on a limb last week about it comparing this team, but you're feeling about Jaylen Smith, you know, with guys that you've played with in the past. Oh man,

it's hard to draw a comparison right now. I feel like he's he's pretty dog on athletic man, and it's kind of hard to compare him to the old you know. For me, and I'm an old school now, the old schools style of linebackers, the old school linebackers were more so, Hey, I'm sitting in the box and I'm coming downhill no matter what. In this new age of football, you can't

have those guys. Right. You might be able to have one out of your three linebackers, three to four linebackers, but your guys got to be able to run around because this is the day and age of tight ends. Tight Ends can are big, tight Ends can block, tight Ends can run, So you have to be able to keep up with those guys. And they also are now at being asked to cover running backs, and we know

how shifty those guys have gotten. So I think it's hard to draw comparison there, but I think his versatility is something to definitely acknowledge and to appreciate. And I'm pretty dog I'm sure that that Mike Nolan is going to have a heck of a time drawing up some crazy plays with that with that young man. Yeah, that's what I love about him, and to me, he gives me that throatback kind of a field as at the linebacker position. But there is an undrafted free agent that

is making some noise at the linebacker position. Bernard does that ring of ball? Rob You gotta tell me about this guy, because I'm hearing a lot of rublins about the rookie making some noise and padded practices. Well, I mean, I forget how many practices they have left before the season starts. Let's say it's sixteen. He's on pace for sixteen interceptions in training camp. Because he gets one every day.

He got a second one today. I think this was a pickoff Clayton Thorson, who I think kind of just threw it right to him. But hey, it's still a big played for the rookie. It's still a big played for the rookie. But anytime you pick off Dak Prescott and Anthony Brown did it his rookie season. I believe it was Tony Rumo that he picked off. Anytime a rookie comes in and picks off the starting quarterback, that's a big deal. So you know, he's making his market.

I know that he's a guy that they really liked. You know that it's a group of undrafted free agents. A lot the guys they had draftable grades on. I think he was one of them. And we're seeing why have we got our fearless leader back. I've been waiting to see if Kyle he's just smiling down here at the bottom. So no, he is not. He is not back keep rolling, hack, keep rolling. But I'm doing the best I can and my best. Kyle Yoma's I presentation

right now. But as far as as far as athleticism, fit and scheme, who are some of the guys that you're seeing rob that are definitely, uh besides who we've already said, are making an impact in practices on defensive side of the ball. Yes, sir, well, I think you know, it's been it's been fun to watch DeMarcus Lawrence and maybe a little bit of different role than we've seen in the past. And you know, Mike McCarthy spoke to it yesterday, experimenting with him standing up and being in

more of that two point stance. You know, that's something that's a little bit more of a versatile type role that he hasn't had in the past, and you know, it'll be interesting to see what they do with that. It was it was interesting that McCarthy referred to Julius Peppers one of the best pass rushers we've ever seen. How that benefited him in Green Bay in terms of vision and being able to kind of get a read on the quarterback more that way than than the three

points stands. So they're they're trying different things and I think it's you know, it's the time to do it now. We don't have a lot of time before the start of the season, but obviously they're looking at some different options for their for their top guys. Now, I did hear that Julius Peppers comparison. And if you're thinking of that, well, Julius Peppers is six seven, three hundred pounds. You know, that's a massive human being that can play it both ways as far as stick in his hand in the

ground and also playing in that bicycle stand. And he's the largest human I've ever played against him my life, just a larger than the scene. There's a there's a story that I when I was when I was I'm not gonna say the other team I was playing for, but I was playing for a team and this and I was talking to an offensive linement and this joker stood up and he walked behind me and the guys. The guys looked past me. You know what. Somebody's talking

to you and they look past you. And I turned around and I see this terminator looking gentleman walking past me. And I think he's six to eight. I don't I was you say six seven. I feel like he was like seven ten, all right. And you see this ginormous human being just walking by with extra muscles and a black miser and you can hear his feet hitting the ground and I'm like that whatever that is is not human. I don't know what it is, but I don't want

to hit it. Wow, Kyle is back. Let's say hello again. It's been It's been quite the first twenty minutes. I've been listening to you guys. You sound great, So I mean, you don't really need me on this show, but I'm gonna I'm gonna provide my opinion anyway. So that's fun. Let's go ahead and take our first break before I use my WiFi connection again, and we'll try and figure this out moving forward. You guys did a fantastic job.

But when we come back here on Talking Cowboys, could the NFL's most improved player be on this defensive side of the football. I've got three candidates coming up for you on the other side of the break here on Talking Cowboys. Since eighteen sixty five, Stetson hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Want to show your Texas and Team pride two, you can

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here on talking cowboys. Thank goodness. We've gotten all the technical difficulties out of the way early, so that way the next forty minutes of this show are as informative as potentially possible. Uh. Sorry for the technical delays, and for those of you listening on podcasts later on, it was a debacle. Let me just let you know that

later on. However, before we get into this next segment, if you're looking for something to change up your dinner routine, help support local businesses, you're hearing Frisco by choosing one of the Star District's restaurants. They're just across the street from where we are. Right here at the Star and Frisco. For more information on deliver very takeout, curbside pickup and dining in availability, you can go online and visit the Star District dot Com. Lots of great options. Heckma and

I love hitting up Sushi Marquis across the way. It's a fantastic run. Yes, it's so good, and there's so many great places over there. I can name them all off,

but I don't have enough time. But I also wanted to give credit to CBS eleven as well, CBS eleven giving us that shot of the Gerald McCoy injury, seeing it really from the beginning with Antoine Woods rising up out of his stance and making just minimal contact, just a freak accident in the first day on turf, first day in pads, and it ultimately is the first injury of Trout Cowboys training camp. But there have been a ton of positive storylines to roll around this Cowboys team,

especially on the defensive side of the football. Guys and Rob, I want to start things off with you here because there's been multiple good things about the defensive side. You guys talked about it already, but I've really been looking at Jalen Smith, and I've been looking at this line back and court with Layton vander esh put back into the fold. This is something that Cowboys fans have been looking for, but Jaylen Smith's taking it to another level.

It hasn't even really been normal Jaylen smith type of play. I don't want to put out a prediction or anything, but he looks Pro Bowl calider or caliber so far. Does any rob you calling a second Pro Bowl for fifty four might if he can stop this trend after four days of practice. I agree with you. I think I said it a minute ago. I think he's he's been my top stand out of camp, just how active he's been. And they're not tackling and they've only been in pads now for a couple of days, but he's

making plays and coverage. He's making plays moving forward and so he's shown his athleticism. And I think it probably helps him having Layton next to him because they work so well together. And once you get done, Terry Pope back in the mix working in team drills. You know, you guys have talked about it, Heck Isaiah what he can add in terms of eating up space and letting those guys him even more. Yeah, I think it's very important.

I think it's very important guys when you when you talk about smooth to just you know, think about what type of weapon Mike Nolan has and the versatility of being able to switch these defenses out and also have him rush from the outside, you know, being past coverage, all of those things that Jayle Smith is going to be going to allow this defense. But to say that this is gonna be a Pro Bowl season for him, I mean, he can make the Pro Bowl in his sleeping.

I know that's a little arrogant of a statement, but that's just the kind of talent that he has and when he's playing full till he's a no brainer. Yeah, there's there's no there's no question about his physical ability. Yeah. I can't speak to the Pro Bowl after a couple of days of practice. I can't speak to that because there's some amazing guys who you know who we added on that list. But he is he's a he's a pree cathlete man, and everybody knows that. Um, you know,

he's back healthy. He's had a couple of seasons under his belt, so he's good to go, and he has he has a new defensive coordinator. You know, he's gonna have some fun with him and his athleticism. So I'm excited to see how he's utilized. I know he's excited to be playing next to vander ash and his boy.

And you know, like I said, we've talked about how those three guys work so well together, and I'm sure that he's just looking forward to being free and having an opportunity just to ball out, man, just to be and I had just ball out with those big guys in front of him. Even with McCoy going down, we still have some great depth a defensive line, and man, those it's really going to free him up. He looks that much better. We lost Kyle again again. This is unbelievable.

You're on bud. Here we go, Here we go again. Hey, and you guys are so loud and you're hot in here, and I'm telling you, my ears, I'm trying to listen to that. I can't do it. By the wa Thank god. This is the craziest I'm at the Star. This doesn't make any sense to me. My home WiFi was not this bad. But it's okay. We're moving it forward. You know what, it's because you've been bragging about being the camp being in the podcast. Dude, it's bad. It might

be it. That's fine, it's karma. I'm gonna move forward with this question. I was going to ask you though, and whenever we've we've talked about in the past, to move from middle linebacker over to the week side linebacker. For Jalen Smith, how much freer is he able to play in that position and just play the football as opposed to what he was doing in the past. He's able to be free as you missed because as as a as a middle linebacker, obviously you're responsible for everything

and everything on the defense, right. Um, you have to be that center point right, you have to be able to take it on all the blocks, and you have to be able to get guys lined up. Where you're a strong side linebacker, you're usually responsible for that tight end, right and I'll lot of times the defense is set to wherever the tight end goes. That's why it's called a strong side linebacker. And that strong side linebacker goes to the number one tight end, so you're responsible for that.

So when you're on the weak side, you have really have the least amount of responsibility right, and you really get the opportunity to run around and use your athleticism and run around. You utilize more to blitz, utilize more in coverage, utilize more if they do have a two tight end set to get hands on that number two tight end right to disrupt him so that your secondary can now come and play coverage. So he's going to be able to just be a guy man and just

be an athletic. And I'm really looking forward to seeing how no one's going to use them. And that's something heck that we've talked about. Yeah, Mike McCarthy has talked about that and several of his press conference is just saying that, look, it's all about rotation. It's all about

getting guys to play when it's important. And Jaylen Smith and the other guys, and we have to bring some light on the like Luke Gifford, Bernard Thomas, these guys are gonna play a tremendous role in that linebacker rotation. So Sean Lee right now I've heard isn't you know he's just on the sideline working in bands. But Jalen Smith at the will linebacker is gonna be lethal. And I guess if he have to look at it like this,

at the mic, you're controlling everything. You're pretty much the quarterback of the defense, making sure coverages, your you know, protection and everything is right. But now I mean he just hey, he can let his hair down literally and play a solid as he's been rob Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, I think the key to this defense, what Mike Golan wants to do, what Mike McCarthy wants for all of his players is just find the best thing they're good

at and accentuated. And I think that's that's the biggest key, and not try to fit a scheme or fit a schema round players strengths, not make the players fit into the scheme itself. And I think they're gonna they're gonna try some things out and see how players respond, and if they're better suited to do something else from a technique standpoint, maybe alignment standpoint, they'll they'll change gears. I mean, you got to remember, it's the first time they've been

on the field with these guys. This is all brand new for the coaching staff, and like we mentioned, for the younger players, this is almost like a rookie camp for some guys. So it's gonna be a little bit of a feeling out process, even though they've had virtual meetings and virtual discussions about scheme and those things. And Isaiah, how refreshing is it? Because we've seen it with Layton Vandersch, We've seen it with Jalen Smith, We've seen it with

a lot of these different players. You can even go to the offensive side of the football and say the same thing about Amari Cooper and Michael Gallup last year with Kellen Moore. But how refreshing is it to have a coach understand your strengths and play to those. From a scheme perspective, it's Everything's absolutely everything, especially in this league. UM. I think in college guys are are they do just

that right? Coaches put the best players in the best position to be successful, right, um, their jobs on the line for whatever reason. Typically when you get to the NFL,

you're now expected to work within our system. Right, whoever you are, you work for me now, and I put you wherever I want to that works my scheme, um, And I think you're really starting to see a change in that that mentality and that thought process around the league as you're starting to see these these running backs like Kmara, you know, and you're starting to see you know, you got guys like you know, Leshan McCoy who really changed that, you know, with with old coach Andy Reid

back in the day, and um so guys have really changed that that dynamic and with this group here. You know, Mike Nolan, you look at his history, right when he was with the Saints and everything else, he didn't care who you were. If you can get to the ball, he's putting you. He's putting you in the game, right And if you can make plays, putting you in the game. If you're explosive, I'm putting you in the game. I don't care who you are. I don't care how big

you are. I don't care how small you are. If you can get to the ball and disrupt things and create havoc on that side of the ball and bring energy to the team, you're my guy. So I think that he's going to be excited about having all this talent around him. And it's amazing to be able to play for a coach like that who acknowledges that and doesn't ask you to do more of what and ask you to do what you're unable to do or ask

you to do something outside of yourself. He simply says, Okay, this is what you do, well, I'm going to put you in a position to excel at that because that's where you're most confident, and when you're most confident, you play free. That's so true. I mean that's when we met with Mike the first two weeks on the job. It extends to the evaluation part, the drafting part two, like, we're not going to draft guys just based on what we think is gonna fit for us. We're gonna go

get good players and then we'll adjust. And that's that's what they've done with their draft, with their free AC and the heckless point. When you've got guys who are versatile defensively. You mentioned Everson Griffin when he's starting to work back in strength and conditioning and he'll get back into practice here probably in the next few days. Alvin

Smith can play different spots. Like I said, I said, you get these guys to get after the quarterback, they'll find a spot for him on the field, and sometimes they'll all be together, sometimes they'll be in a rotation of sorts, but they're all gonna be able to contribute in different ways that that's pretty exciting. And it's still it's still amazed to be seen how they're going to use everybody. But but they've got the pieces, even with

McCoy heart, they've still got so many pieces. Yeah, Rob, I love to hear that when you saw hearing those words from training camp. Defense is pinning their ears back, guys are flying around, is they're being disrupted. Those are all the defensive keywords that you want to hear. And it sounds like to me, this whole new defensive regime is gonna you know, look, I don't not better than the last one, but just you know, there's gonna be some improvements to the scheme that the Cowboys are playing.

And you've heard that in the interview with a Woozier just talking about the way that the defense, the guys up front are able to play more fast, more free, and he sees it in the skies in the disguise and scheme that they're the new disguise and scheme that they're playing right now. So kind of taking both what Heckmug just said and what Rob said of allowing these schemes and fitting players, but also you're starting to see the change from the previous staff into the new staff.

Rob out of the practices that you've watched, who's benefited the most, who has been that player that you've said from the last game into this new one, who has actually played better because well he fits better. Well, I don't know if it's all about fit, but I mean I mentioned Jalen Smith earlier. I think Anthony Brown has had a tremendous start to camp in terms of his coverage, being active around the ball. And I know you guys have talked about the competition that we're seeing and we're

going to see different guys get opportunities. Traymon Dix has made plays out there. I think guys are are comfortable with being aggressive and knowing that they're getting pressure up front. I will say this, you know, there's there's an issue that the offense is having right now with Loud Collins not practice and yet with Campa Irving not practicing yet.

And those aren't aren't serious injuries or issues there, but their tackle depth is not what it should be right now, and you're seeing Tank Lawrence get to the quarterback a lot, and it's it's affecting the offense a little bit earlier, I think, but you are seeing dbs make a lot of plays on the ball. It's exciting. Well in heck, whenever you hear about these defensive backs, that's been a well. Kyle was we lost Kyle again and he was asking

the question about Anthony Brown and his production. And for Anthony Brown, I feel as though this training camp is going to be pivotal. The coaching staff knows the type of production that he's had and rob Anthony Brown out of Purdue. His production his first year as a rookie was phenomenal. I believe he had forty forty breakups or no, no,

forty tackles and eighteen and eight. I'm in bellishing the numbers, even does in the numbers, But what I'm saying is he had the production his first year which gave everyone in cowboy Land, you know, the impression that he is going to be, you know, a ball hawk, a guy that's gonna be around. Uh. He took him, you know after I believe it was Brandon Carr left in his second year. But then we we drafted a Woozier, we drafted Lewis and he had an opportunity to earn a

starting spot. Nolan Carroll I believe took that over, but then he ended up playing ten games and then a Woozier. I believe he was benched for a Woozier and week thirteen. He's a guy that's had his opportunities. He's up and down. He even competed in twenty eighteen. Uh with the guy that's in I'll just refer to him and as the guy that's in Miami right now now. But he had plenty of he had plenty of opportunities to make an

impact and be a starter. I just believe that a fresh set of eyes, as you know, a fresh opinion about Anthony Brown is going to give him what he needs to take that next step, because, look, he can play on the outside and he can also play a slot receiver. So his value, just like defensive linemen, are there because he's a multidimensional player for us. You nailed it.

I mean, he's I was just gonna say that he can play anywhere for you, like like George Lewis, and they've been competing for that slot role the last couple of years. When Brown's been healthy, he's been productive most of the time. He's had some some penalties early in his career, but I think he did a better job with that as as he's gotten older in his career. But I mean the competition, Isaiah, it's it's really good. I mean, I know you've talked about Daryl Worley as

a guy. I mean that guy has more experience than anybody at the cornerback position. And Mike McCarthy has also spoken very highly of what Traymond Digs has been able to do as a natural athlete coming in. I'm still very curious to see how it's all going to work out. And I actually have a question for you. I don't know, can you really can you establish a rotation of corners

within a season, within a game or would you? I mean, is it more of a chemistry type issue like it is with the offensive line, where you really need your top three guys and go from there because they have some tough decisions to make them feel like Yeah. I think as a defensive coordinator, when you have so many options at this position, right at this cornerback position, I think that you really have the freedom of putting putting guys in a rotating guys through but you don't want

to do that. At the cornerback position. You want guys to be able to get in and get the flow of the game right. You want guys to get used to the releases of the receivers. You want them to have the timing. You want them to be in sync with their safeties and positioning and angles and all kinds of things. Right. So you really that's not a position that you want to swap guys out all the time. You really want your staple of guys on the outside

and your third third guy on the inside. Um. But as we're talking about Brown and some of these other guys, when you're a veteran in this league, Um, first of all, if you're a player in this league, right, if you're if you're blessed to be in the NFL, you're you're a competitor, period, point blank. Right. You had to work

your butt off to get to this point. Once you've become a veteran, right, and you get a little bit of status, and you've established yourself in an organization and you have some respect, and then they draft, they draft a couple of guys and they bring in a veteran. Oh, your your your position is getting challenged, right, They're calling you out in a sense, right, so that competitor has

to come out within you. And and I'm really looking forward to see how some of these guys respond to new acquisitions because we know the three guys that they brought on, they're not going anywhere. Those guys are on the roster. That's just called how it is. Those three guys are on the roster. Right when we talk about um um, well I can't. I just blanked out right now.

But we talked about yeah, yeah, but we were talking about we talk about digs and some of those guys that we just brought on, those guys are gonna be there, so we talk about and all these other guys that are gott to becoming Jordan Lewis. The guys got to compete. So we're gonna see what they're made up. We're gonna see, I think, the best version that they have to present because they have to. They don't have a preseason. They

have to come out there. They got a bought out in practice and didn't guess what if they're blessed to be on a roster, they got to show up otherwise they'll be calling it another guy back. Did we get off fearless leader back. Guys. Hey guys, Hey guys. Fearless is probably not the right term, because my fears my WiFi will go out again moving into the final segment, but let's go ahead and take our next break before we do so. Get the ultimate fan experience. For the

ultimate Cowboys fan, join Dallas Cowboys United. Get an exclusive DCU fan pack and member benefits as memberships start at only twenty dollars. Visit Dallas Cowboys dot com slash United to join today when we come back. Is the offensive line now the number one worry on that side of the football? Will answer that and more when we come back. Here on Talking Cowboys. I'm Jay Novachek, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys Back in the day. I was the guy who always got the tough yards and that's

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free shipping. The Starter includes four Jack Clack skincare favorites plus a full sized and tense therapy lip bomb. Go to get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys and use the code word Team JB. That's get Jack Black dot com Slash Cowboys The Jack Black Starter ten bucks free shipping to talk in Cowboys. You know what doesn't have Wi Fi? Issues? Magazines Get your training camp coverage with the twenty twenty Dallas Cowboys Star Magazine Training Camp Preview.

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hot over there. I don't know with dial up. I don't know dial up and download, don't go to hand to hand Kyle However, what Jay, who's a great fan of OAR and a friend of ours on the comments section, says, I think Kyle's about to blow a gasket, and he's all, he's not wrong. But at the same time, it's still fun being with you guys, and honestly, I'm laughing more than I'm mad. So that's good. Yeah, that's a good one.

That's a good one. Before I lose the connection again, though, let's go into these offensive tackles, because we've had a lot of the positive story lines on the defensive side. Yes, we really want to get into corners, linebackers, but really it's been the pass rush that that's taken the storylines even before Gerald McCoy's injury, because of what Alden Smith has done, because of what DeMarcus Lawrence has been able to do, and then also you throw Tristan Hill having

a great start to camp as well. But Rob, is this an issue moving into really the tackles. I know Lyle Collins is out at the moment, Tyrn Smith has seemingly been on a back and forth battle with Alden Smith, But are you worried at all about those offensive tackles moving forward? No, I don't think so long term. I think cam Irving and Lyle will be back at practice.

I don't think it's gonna be long but for right now, as I mentioned earlier, it's just you know, it happens in preseason games with you when you've got younger players and maybe you're trying to evaluate a quarterback in game situations. It's harder when when the protection maybe isn't what it needs to be. And I think that's been an issue in terms of just having young guys playing that right tackle spot and cycling through without the depth there you've got,

you've had tiring left tackle. Brandon Knight was able to work back in today and play a little bit. He started off working with the trainers. He's a guy that's played in the league already a little bit, so that'll help. And the reports that they've worked out a couple of

tackles for depth. We'll see what happens. But I'm not worried about a long term just I think the rhythm of your offense you're trying to get that early in practice and it may be affected a little bit right now because you're seeing a lot of pressure from the defensive front. We've talked about it. It's a lot of good, a lot of past on this defense trying to get after the football here. You know, how big are the

eyes of the rookies. The right tackle steal from Texas Tech where he sees de Marcus Lawrence in front of him, I mean that is that's a large undertaking for a rookie. And so I believe as Cowboy fans, for years we've been despoiled with all of our embarrassment of riches at the offensive line. I mean for Pro bowlers every year seems like and so now when we you know, a guy like Leo Collinson, I don't know what's going on. You know, everything has been mum from camp, but at

the same time, it doesn't sound like it's serious. I think I believe it's a conditioning uh deal. And Lyell is going to be back in the fold, and that's gonna change everything because we still have our guys. For me, Connor Williams is who I want to like, circle him underline and highlight his name because he is the one dude on that offensive line that has the most to prove. I know, Looney's done it. You know, you've seen what his production, but Connor Williams. He has got to anchor himself.

He's been in the league now for a number of years, he's gotten stronger. We know, high draft pick for a guy like him coming out of Texas, but this camp is very important for him because look, guys, in two and a half weeks we fly to LA and it's a guy in LA that is a serious monster, and he's gonna have to deal with that guy. And so I want to see things take shape for Connor Williams right now. Heck, you gotta tell the fans who that master is in Los Angeles. You gotta say the name.

I know, it's it's it's I'm sorry, I'm sorry. His name is Aaron Donald. Yeah, everybody you don't know, now you know? Now you know? Yes, he's good. Yeah. Yeah. And in reference to the old line, man, I feel like we're in a good position. But to your point, Rob, we gotta get these guys on the field. And there's

no there's not enough time. There's not practice games. You know, to four practice games underneath your belt, even though the starters are probably only playing maybe three quarters of that, um you know, four games typically, But you know, these guys need to get on the field. They need to get and sync. There's too much communication that has to take place between all these guys being connected on the symmetry between the center and the guards and the tackles.

There's and a tight end. Right, we can't forget about Jarwin now out there. He has to be able to relay information as well. Sometimes he's in a position to change the entire, the entire, the entire blocking schemes. So these guys need to get together. There's too many new moving parts. And you think about the fact that we have Mike Nolan throwing all kinds of craziness at them. Probably with by next week he'll probably start start dialing

enough the blitz packages. If these guys aren't working next to each other to be able to communicate properly and efficiently, it's going to cause problems. And then if we have any injuries at all to either of these tackles, right, I think we're okay on the interior, but at either of our tackles, if we lose one of those guys at any point in time, I think we are in trouble.

I think we're in trouble because now you're putting a younger guy in that position or an unproven guy in that position, and with this defensive line that they're facing every day, at what point do they gain confidence? They don't get They don't gain confidence in practice, right, and then all of a sudden, their teammates don't trust them, their teammates don't believe in them, and then they go out there and then they face you know, somebody who's starting and getting paid a lot of money to make

them look bad. So I want to make sure that these guys stay healthy. But to Rob's point, these guys that you get on the field and get in sync well, and Isaiah, I want to turn this back around on you. You mentioned these moving parts, and you mentioned the different looks on the defense, but explain how challenging that is to pick up from an offensive perspective. You're a quarterback, you're a former wide receiver, You've played on both ends of it. It's a challenge. It's not something that is

just an overnight thing. This is something that Dak Prescott and the entire offense have to do is continue to challenge themselves to pick up that defense. Yeah, I mean, especially when you have a wild card and defensive coordinator like Nolan, who's throwing craziness at you? Right? I mean I can, I can. I can remember back when I was playing with the Patriots and I was, you know,

backing up when I was backing up Tom Brady. And we're getting in preparation for the Jets at the time, right, Um, and there's a crazy defensive coordinator that happened that happened to be for with the with the Jets back back in the day, and um, and he would he would dial up and in the name of Rex Ryan, let me go ahead and say that Rex Ryan. He would dial up the craziest place, right, Rex Ryan would put one defensive lineman, five linebackers, five dbs, and he would

have guys walking around. And as a quarterback, you have to be able to identify, Hey, if we're gonna be wrong, we're gonna be wrong together. Right. But the person you're talking to is you're talking to that center. Right, So as we talk about that center battle, right, whether it's gonna be looney or or it's gonna be the rookie right that we just drafted, right, it doesn't matter. Beyond and beyond is I don't want to mess up his name, but uh, if it whether, you know, you want somebody

who's gonna be there. So most of the most likely it's gonna be looney because you need that guy who's confident and you need somebody who can handle that dog that you guys just referred to Aaron Donald in week one. So there's so much symmetry, there's so much communication that takes place. You know, we're talking. Not only is Dak talking and calling out the middle linebacker and telling everybody, Hey,

that's who that center. Now listen to the center. Now the center has to communicate that all the way out to the tight end. Right. If you don't have your guys and they're practicing, how do you work in that communication? You don't. Yeah, it's tough, and you're going to see a little bit of a defensive side of the football. Have that advantage early in camp. You see absolutely year because of especially with a new system, it's so tough

to pick up. But heck, when we were kind of mentioning this offense and really going into the season with the new edition of Ceedee Lamb with all these weapons that Dak Prescott and company have to work with on the offensive side, is really the entire success of the offense, or are we getting our ahead of ourselves in the fact that it's really the offensive line that needs to answer their questions before we really have a big year

on that side of the football. Well, I mean, the thing that we have to draw into account, put into account and is the fact that these guys haven't had any OTA's quarterback camps, any of that. So the timing of the offense is completely thrown off. And so it may be we try and make this an indictment against them, but truly, defenses are going to be a little bit ahead of the curve because they just read and react right.

But for offenses, it's a timing thing. And I gotta say this about something that Champ said about the offensive line, and man, we're just fall because of all the great guys that we've had, and you look around the league at offensive linemen and there are not a lot of teams that have as great offensive line as the one that we have. I think Indianapolis is the only team

that I can think of with Nelson. But look, we have to really concentrate on the fact that we have a very dynamic running back in Zeke and don't matter what the timing is looking like what the easiest thing to do is turnaround and hand numb between one the ball inside zone, outside zone. Let him do his think

because everything is going to be predicated on that. And if you think about Mike McCarthy and what he's doing right now, and even Kellen Moore with the offense from last year, he's able to communicate a lot of that to the new guys and the guys that we've had from previous years. But we understand that Zeke is going to be a big part of that. I know Ceedee Lamb is attractive to talk about and the offense and explosion, but guys, the truth is Ezekiel Elliott is going to

be the guy that makes all of this run succinctly. Yeah, And I want to be clear to the offense has had their moments too. I thought yesterday it was a

really good day for the offense. We've seen some great connections between Dak and Amari Cooper, Michael Gallup, Ceedee Lamb, Blake Jerwin and Zeke two hack to your point, because one thing he spoke about yes a via conference call was trying to be more of even better as a pass catcher and This is a guy that's had I think seventy seven catches in a season, but he wants

to be even more well rounded. And then now you add in, you know Tony Pollard as a guy that can be a compliment in the same manner, a guy that can that can beat you a bunch of different ways, and it just kind of adds to that whole versatility thing we're talking about now on the offensive side of the ball. But yeah, I think the offensive line is gonna be fine. That just the right side is just

not where it normally would be. Right now, you still got Zack Martin, you still got Tyrn Smith, Tech mentioned Connor Williams. He's gonna be fine. Joe Looney has experience, h and you can turn around and hand the ball at twenty one. That's pretty good. Heckman's looking really nice up on that screen right now. I think he's just he's just owning the camera time at the moment. But I'd have to agree because there's so many different Uh,

there's there's so many fun things about this offense. When you look at Zeke, when you look at Tony Pollard getting the backfield and involved with both of those guys, I know Mike McCarthy briefly mentioned did Zeke talked about it like you mentioned Rob, But I think whenever you get to the point Rob of looking at this offense, it's really how creative is Kellen Moore going to get to be and what are some of the ways that he can be creative with this offense and can get

all of these weapons involved in order to get the touches that they need. Yeah, and Zeke spoke to him yesterday. He was asked about they used he and Pollard together at times last season, and he just talked about how they can really play off of each other in terms of their roles and keeps the defenses honest and it you know Pollard as a guy, they really love his potential.

The issue, like as as Hegma has said, I'm sorry as Aias said, there's just guys that have a hard time ever really breaking out in the NFL, just simply because there are great players in front of him. So I'm still curious to see what his snapcount's going to be because we saw him blow up in certain games and then he might get five or six snaps on offense, and I'm just curious to see how consistent it's gonna be,

but there is no doubt about his talent. Isaiah. Yeah, I mean we've already touched on it to boy can play unfortunate as a due by the name of Freaky Ezekie in front of him, and they don't have to find a way to get both of those guys in the game while getting all three receivers in the game while also trying to get both tight ends in the game. I am not Kellen Moore. I don't want to be. He has a good problem on his hand, but he's got to earn his check for this year. For sure.

It's gonna be interesting because there's so many different ways that you can ultimately move with this offense, and there's so many different weapons to use. How you use them that's the biggest question moving forward. We can't wait to answer those for you here on Talking Cowboys. Throughout the course of Cowboys training camp, keep up to date with all four of us. Whenever we're reporting here about the Cowboys. You've got Heckma Harrison on Twitter at Heckma Underscore Harrison.

You've got Rob Phillips. He's Rob Phillips three on Twitter. And then Isaiah SA and back as well. I am stand Back the champ. I love it. Go and follow those guys on Twitter because they're fantastic all the way through. I'm at Kyle underscore Yeoman's Hopefully no Wi Fi problems on my tweeting side of things, but that's gonna do it here for talking Cowboys today. Sorry for my technical difficulties.

I'll be better next week, I promise. But for heck My Harrison, for Rob Phillips, for Isaiah stand back, I'm Kyle Yeoman saying so long from the start in Frisco. We'll see you next time. I'm talking Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.