Breaking News Podcast: New Direction?

replace him. Nothing official yet, but hey, we're here for the next hour anyway, so why not just kick it around? Might be official, it could be. Well, we'll know noon Central time if on your Twitter account, Dave, you got it. Dave's got the computer far enough, need you to tell him that it's true? Please okay, computer phone, He's always ready. That's Stave Hellman, Mickey Spagnola, Nick Eatman, Rob Phillips here

for the next hour. Well, we waited for a week for news, and then we got it during the Eagles Wildcard playoff game. Yeah, more than all things could bargain for. Like, literally waited a week for news. Found out about coaching interviews before we found out about the last one leaving. Then we finally Yeah, during an Eagles game. No, less, can't convince me that's an accident. There's just no way.

A lot of Cowboy fans were probably really excited, like right there, like in the halftime that Jason Okay finally gone, because I know a lot of Cowboy fans are excited about that. And then the Eagles losing, I mean that there you go. It's a nice Sunday afternoon. It's a nice I mean, maybe not as nice as if they'd been hosting the Seahawks themselves, but yeah, not bad. And then you know, obviously it's just reports. The team has not made a statement or confirmed or not anything, but

sounds like they have chosen their coach. We'll see. But I mean, the fact that the fact that it looks like they're going ahead with Mike McCarthy twelve hours after letting go of Jason Garrett is pretty stunning to me, honestly. Well, let's go around the table and talk about those reports. And reportedly Mike McCarthy came in for an interview over the weekend. Marvin Lewis, former long time Bengals coach, was

also in for an interview. But reports this morning Mick that they've zeroed in on McCarthy, the long time former Packers head coach who won a Super Bowl inside at Stadium during the two twenty ten season. I believe there you go ten years ago, ten years ago? What does that mean? Just threw it out It's ten years ago, okay, all right, the same year that Jason Garrett ironic. Yeah. And by the way, do you think Jerry Sly as a Fox wanted something in writing for a new head

coach before he let the old head coach go? Officially? I hope not, but it sounded like he might have, but I hope not. Right Mike was he worried that he wasn't going to find something that he really wanted that, you know, I'm just asking. I threw it out there. Well, that's what Jacksonville I think did I mean, I don't think Jacksonville thought there was a lot of great coaches out there, so they went with Doug Marrow, stuck with stuck, right, And that's I think what Jerry was saying. But it's

a difference situation here. I hope that's not what happened, but I think that there's something to that. I think he really was looking to see, all right, I've got the fourteenth, I've got this date and I'm gonna go and look and see. And you know the bad part about that is that obviously Garrett can't go and do that, right. I don't think maybe he could have. Maybe he gave him the opportunity. Who knows if he had an opportunity to go interview somewhere else before this was made official

on Sunday that he's not returning. Yeah, would you imagine they would have let him do that? But he wanted He was asked. The last time he spoke publicly Jason did was on one of five Through the Fan a week ago, and he said, would you when you meet with the Joneses, would you like to establish that you

still want to be the coach? And he said, oh, yeah, yeah, the Gage wanted he said it after the yeah, which maybe I mean, And you know what, that's that's none of Jerry's concern, Like, hey, he owns the team and he had Jason under contract, so he can do what he wants. But if that was really what it's about, man, that's that's awkward. Like I was just thinking last night, like Mike McCarthy, you know, interviewed over the weekend the reporters that he stayed an extra night here in Dallas

and it was a whole weekend long thing. Like did they take him into Jason's office, Like even though Jason's still the coach, Like was Jason here? Like, hey man, remember how you helped me get the Cowboys job, and remember how you might be replacing me now, Like that's just remember when you threw that challenge flag on de taught that ball and it screwed everything up for us. It isn't It's really interesting how their careers are intertwined.

Like big Game McCarthy beats. McCarthy beats the Cowboys forty five seven, setting up Jason Garrett to get the job. Obviously, McCarthy derailed both of Garrett's best seasons of his Cowboys tenure. I hadn't even thought about the twenty ten game. Yeah, Mike McCarthy's Packers got Jason Garrett this job in the first place. Wade Phillips last game is head coach. Wow, Mike McCarthy. I mean, we're not probably sitting here if the Cowboys don't lose that game to the Packers in

twenty sixteen. Yeah, you know, fourteen two, But it's sixteen. Stung a little bit more now, just because you were at home, you had home field advantage and the way you lost it, right, yeah, with time expiring. Yeah, but I mean, you know you can you can make the case. I mean, some of the greatest coaches of all time. Um, I bet you most of the great coaches of all time having Hall of Fame quarterback with them. I mean,

that's just the way it goes. And so you know a lot of people will say, well, yeah, we had Aaron Rodgers. Okay, Well, I mean all these guys had somebody, you know, and Belichick's had Brady and and you know, Landry and Noel and all those guys have had Hall of Fame guys. So I don't know if if you can say that it's just that or not. I mean, he's the offensive coach, and you know, they had some

really good players. I know this. They would rotate a lot of receivers in there, guys that you wouldn't think would be you know, starting caliber guys, and next thing you know, they're in the Pro Bowl. You know, whether or not that's just Aaron Rodgers, I'm not sure, but I mean I'm sure he has a big part of it, that is bear did McCarthy get there, oh six o six.

He was there from six to twenty eighteen through twenty eighteen season went one hundred and twenty five and seventy seven and two with nine playoff appearances mentioned that Super Bowl, also four NFC title games. And by the way, he's one of three coaches or four coaches, including the great Tom Landry, to make eight straight playoff appearances throughout his tenure. From he did for for two seasons. Two seasons. Yeah, well,

I mean that's that, that's great stuff. I mean, that's I mean, that's what I think that they're looking at here. I believe that Jerry Stephen Will McClay look at this and go, you know what, we've got roster of players they they believe. Now we can argue all day how great it really is, but they feel like they've got a talented roster that maybe needs to be, you know, coached better, and here's a guy that's done it. And I don't think you can say all that and say,

well it's because of Aaron Rodgers. I don't. I don't believe that. And that's I mean, that's going to be the debate about this higher. If that is the higher, it certainly looks like it is. Once again, reports say that it's trying to close our bases here. Yeah, but not anothering official from the team yet. Um, but that that's going to be the debate, is you know how much of it is is Mike McCarthy, how much of it is Aaron Rodgers. As always, I think the truth

is somewhere in the middle. Having a quarterback of that caliber certainly helps you, but it's hard to reach the postseason that many times in a row. It's hard to win ten playoff games. I don't think you can take all the credit out of Mike McCarthy's hands for that, but I certainly think the quarterback plays a role in that. And I think you're absolutely right, like this, this feels like a win now higher, Like this is a this is a team like Jerry doesn't want to do that

learning curve thing all over again. If this is this guy and that bringing in the analogy you mentioned at the top of the show, my dear friend Elyssa Cowie gave this to me, and I'm the Cowboys beat writer, but I thought it was an awesome analogy. It was like Mike McCarthy is Zach Martin. Go back to twenty fourteen, they had the choice between Johnny Manziel and Zach Martin. Like that's what it was down to, flashy guy, you don't know if it's gonna work. Your mercurial talent could

take you to another level, could flame out spectacularly. And in this analogy, obviously that's like a Lincoln Riley or an Urban Meyer. And then you have a very proven, solid guy that's not going to just make make everybody excited, like the draft party's not going to go insane when you draft Zach Martin. But it's a very stable, safe, smart hire. And I know, like Zach Martin's gonna go to the Hall of Fame. I get that we don't know if McCarthy's going to work out that well, but

I think there's something to that. Well, there's probably more to that analogy. I don't know if there's some implying going on there, but there's more to that analogy because if you remember, everyone knows that Jerry wanted yeah, Jerry didn't want to say, and what happened, Yeah, Steven had to go in there and say listen, you know, and all the other scout and everyone coach that didn't want it either, but Stephen had to go and be the

one to say we got to do this. And I think from what from what I've been hearing, I think that something similar was happening here. I really do. I think Jerry had a hard time letting go of Garrett, and I think I don't know if it's just Steven or whatever, but I think there's other people that were like, listen, we got to make a move here, and so it was tough that the same thing happened with DeMarcus Ware. I mean, Jerry told DeMarcus Ware that he was coming

back and then he wasn't. So I mean, it just that happens. I do know, though, and you might be right. Jerry was quoted. It was right after the Big twelve title game because Matt Rule and Lincoln Riley were both coaching here, and he said he's like college to pro is like the hardest transition, Like that's the least likely to breed you success, which I thought was interesting at the time because obviously Jimmy Johnson came straight from college.

But he's right in the sense that like hotshot college coaches don't have a great track record in the NFL. So maybe somebody put that idea in his head. But eventually I think he came to that conclusion that that's a big risk. Well do you do you think that wasn't what he was thinking. He should have been thinking this way, Why do you want to bring in a head coach to practice on your dime that's never been

a head coach that doesn't have any FL experience? I mean again again, because I mean they did it obviously, Yeah, but look at where they were in eighty nine. That's not the well okay, yeah, talk about I'm just saying now a college coach, yes, and make that transition or bring in a coordinator to practice on your time. But that's the risk, right, Like for every time it doesn't work out, there's a Sean mcvayh who like had barely been a coordinator who got his team to a Super Bowl? Okay,

who else? I see? That's my point, right, Matt Lafleur is doing it in Green Bay right now. I mean, it happens. It's not like it's Andy Reid at some point. These guys never had head coaching experience and then they did. You know, but I see, he was in the NFL for a while. I'm trying. I'm trying to think of another college guy. This trade from college. Now, this franchise has a history of it, though they do. Jimmy came

in and everything changed. Now that was different. They were failing and you got a new owner, right, and they were terrible. Switzer I mean, yeah, Switzer was actually I mean Switzer came in on a team that was ready to win. Right. He was Queen Elizabeth. Okay, I don't get that reference. Sorry, he was the monarch, the figure head.

The queen doesn't run the country right now. Jim Hart Okay, Jim Harbaugh, I don't know if you can say Pete Carroll's in that category because he was an NFL head coach then went to college out of the game for a long time. Yeah, he was in college for a while. There is precedent for it. But to your point, Jerry was asked about college coaches kind of dancing around. You know, this is when Jason still had the job late in the season, and he mentioned that college coaches it's the

track record is not good. And I think Nick's right. They feel like this is a roster that should have done more than it did this year. That's young, but that's talent and won ten games and got to the second round two years ago. I guess I was just arguing with you, Mick, but I really I feel like

I'm coming around to that point of view. Is like I was intrigued by the Lincoln Riley's of the world, Like, yeah, like maybe this won't work out, but maybe it could take you to a level unprecedented at least in recent memory. But then you look at and you look at everything McCarthy has done in his career. You look at what he's accomplished, You look at his experience in the league. He hasn't just worked with Aaron Rodgers and Brett Farve. He got some good seasons out of Aaron Brooks in

New Orleans. He was in San Francisco for a year. Like, he's got a lot of experience. And then going back to Aaron Rodgers. Does not Mike McCarthy deserve some credit for developing him in the early going of his career. I mean, he didn't come out of the womb as the best quarterback in the league. Yeah, because if you remember, they played against Brett Farve under Mike McCarthy in two thousand and seven here at Texas Stadium and Aaron Rodgers up and then and then they took off second half.

And so for all of those reasons, And that's why I think Zack Martin thing is such a good analogy because this is not sexy, but neither was that. But if he does his job and learns from his experiences in Green Bay the way that people think he can, it could be a heck of a higher well. It's also very similar to Wade Phillips as well. You know, been back in oh seven when you're like, okay, this team was, you know close, and you know that that OZ six team and part Parcels took him pretty far.

But then you know they were ready to kind of move forward and they just needed a different voice, you know. And I think a lot of the a lot of the players actually liked what Wade brought as opposed to Bill. You know, it's different, but they needed Bill, it was. That's the tricky part here, is that they needed that from three to six, that team was ready to go, you know, not that Wade took him over the top.

He certainly didn't, but neither did Bill. I mean nobody has really it was almost like a breath of fresh air, like they needed some relief. And actually that's what happened from Jimmy to Switzer at the time. At the time Jimmy, Jimmy was grinding that team and they needed a breath of fresh air. So Switzer comes in and he's kind of an opposite coach, and the same thing happened with Wade. Now we'll see what happens here, but think about it.

If the premise was he didn't want to bring in a college coach, or he didn't want to bring in a coordinator to practice being a head coach, from a guy with head coaching experience that hadn't been out of the game that long, who were the other candidates. I don't want somebody that's been out five years. You know they're going to come in because they forget how hard

you have to work to be successful. You know. It sounds to me, and I don't know everything that went on this last year, but it sounds to me that what McCarthy did in twenty nineteen could be the reason that he's that he's hired just the stay as anybody as anything else he's done. He stepped with right, do you guys know a little bit more of that story? Why don't we take a break and get into When

We Come Back? Because it's a really interesting story and Tom Pella Sero of NFL Network did a big feature on him and what he did Mike McCarthy did in his year off from football again. Reports that the Cowboys are zeroing in on Mike McCarthy to replace Jason Garrett. Nothing confirmed yet, but we'll continue to discussion next. When We Come Back is a proud sponsor of the Dallas Cowboys, helping fans see more and do more with our best

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the Star in Frisco. Oh so much going on this week? What happened to last week? You were complaining all last week because we were just sitting around waiting. We had crickets last week, didn't wait. It's either all or nothing, just like the TV show everything or nothing. I don't know. Do you like this music? Yeah? We added to one of the pockets. It just seems like breaking news or Beverly Hills cop four or something like that. But I mean, it just it seems like, you know, get the horn

going off, like big stuff happens here. That's right, it's what they say reportedly. Anyway, Well, we know Jason Garrett is not coming back, the press release from the Cowboys last night that they will not seek a contract extension with Jason after nine full years as the head coach. And now twelve hours later we get reports that Mike

McCarthy might be is on his way to town. All of the like, you know, all of the reflection pieces on the Garrett era like went out the window because like you know, you're kind of you're still digesting the news. You're like, we saw this coming, but it finally happened. But then before you can even really get your ducks in a row on that, we're onto potentially hiring the next head coach. Sorry, Jason, life comes at your fast,

it really does. Yeah, all right, Nick, we broke the last segment talking or teasing what Mike McCarthy has been up to last twelve months since he parted ways with the Packers after the twenty eighteen season. Pretty interesting stuff. Yeah, I alluded to it. I'm probably not the right person

for it because I haven't read it all. Have y'all actually read this, Okay, But basically he spent last year and he's got like a team of coaches that, you know, it very it's very reminiscent to like what John Gruden was doing, even though he was at you know, out of coaching, he was still like evaluating tape and players, and it looked like that McCarthy had assembled a team of coaches to to really study the game, not be you know, away from the players, the draft guys, and

then also really taking analytics into equation as well, and just making sure that they don't stay too far out of this mix here and and stay you know, you know, kind of up to date with everything that's happened happening in the NFL. Yeah, I mean he's he's been camped

out at his place near Green Bay. A bunch of other coaches have been part of it with him, Jim Haslett, who he goes way back with, and that it's I don't know, part of me is intrigued and impressed because you know, he's he talks about like embracing analytics and embracing a lot of the changes that have taken over

football in the last ten years. Part of me is also like, man, this is a hell of a prs like a PR stunt, like you know, and this this story dropped Tom Pellisero, who's a great reporter for NFL Network. It came out in like early December, which is right around the time where jobs are starting to kind of align and you kind of have an idea of what's gonna be open. Good for him, man, Like that's he interviewed for every job, right, every job that's been open

he interviewed for I did. I don't know if he actually took those interviews. Reportedly Brown's Giants and Panthers. Okay, so he's at least linked to those jobs. Yeah he was, I think, yeah, he didn't do. But which, hey, use the media to your advantage. That was something that I never thought Jason Garrett did a good enough job of, Like he just wanted to do his thing. He wasn't gonna,

you know, play in the media. And that's it's admirable in its own right, but like, you can use the media to your advantage, and I definitely think Mike McCarthy did that. There's a blurb from the story, just real quick that Tom Pellisera wrote, Dave mentioned this kind of unofficial coaching staff that he put together in the offseason.

He said, together they've spent months preparing as if they're the thirty third coaching staff, from studying league trends and rebuilding playbooks to deep dives on analytics like Nick said, and mapping out a calendar for practices and meetings all

the way through training camp. McCarthy also did a deep dive on himself, going through boxes dating to his early days as an assistant at Pittsburgh and with the Chiefs to study how his philosophies have evolved over the past thirty years and where he needs to go from here. Nick saban know about that. I thought Alabama was the thirty third team. So having said this year, sorry, does he know who his defensive coordinator is going to be?

Sounds like Jim Haslin was, you know. Yeah, No, I wonder though, like I'm well, I wonder if, like you know, they have this whole thing in Green Bay and they're the thirty third staff. But Mike McCarthy gets this call and he's like, aciate you guys, appreciate your health. I get to take two. Yeah. No, seriously, He's like, I only got two tickets. Uh, yeah, I don't. I have a hard time believe in like that's that staff is not coming here in full. I don't know the National

title game next week. Yeah, I got tickets to Paradise. Don't remind me. I think defense coordinator. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he's already been interviewed. That's kind of well. I would imagine when you interview, that's one of the questions they ask you, Marvin Less, we're talking Marvin listener, No, I'm talking Mike McCarthy. Who's your defensive coordinator? Nick was implying, and I could see that happening also

if that's who he wants. You know, I know what people think, and they can't be one hundred percent wrong, because you have to interview a minority coach before you can hire anyone, and they did that right off the bat. But I'm telling you that Marvin Lewis was not just strictly Rooney rule. I promise you he's not. And if it wasn't, then if it's not for that what you're suggesting, it's let me pick your brain about defense, right, and then you know what you're looking for if it's not him,

But that occurred to me. Also, Marvin Lewis has been a head coach in the NFL for almost twenty years yea with one spot, taking the Bengals to multiple playoff parents is I mean, he's a qualified, outstanding coach who, by the way, has a super Bowl ring for defense with maybe one of the definitely one of the greatest defense we've ever seen in Baltimore in two thousand he was the defensive coordinator that Ravens team. But you know, it has to be said that he has not won.

He did not win a playoff. I'm gonna say if you're and his credentials are fantastic, and that's great, but like if you're taking it at face value that they were interviewing him to be the head coach, he couldn't take his team to the round that Jason Garrett couldn't get passed, and that's that just was never gonna sit well with Cowboys fans, Like he couldn't get out of the wildcard round, and it was it wasn't like he was always getting into the wildcard round at nine and

seven either, Like he went one and done with some twelve and four teams in Cincinnati. You know, if I remember correctly, Jason Garrett might have been the first guy to interview back in two thousand and seven. If it wasn't him, it was three guys on the staff already, the Todd Bowles and I believe Sperrano. Maybe he was certainly hired, yo way he was hired, but I'm just saying he was. He was interviewed for the head coaching job and became an assistant obviously the offensive coordinator. So

maybe maybe that happens. I don't know, though, I don't know if McCarthy Marvin Lewis. I don't know if that if that works there, but it's neither do I. But man, that would be that would be some next level maneuvering by Jerry Jones. If you interview a candidate that satisfies the Rooney rule, hire Mike McCarthy, and then slot Marvin

Lewis in as his defensive coordinator. And it's funny because any fan will say, you can't hire Marvin Lewis to be your head coach, but will immediately be like Marvin Lewis as the DC. You got me listening now, like like Wade Phillips exactly a veteran guy with skins on the wall. He's coached Ray Lewis, he's coached Ed Reid, he won a Super Bowl with the greatest defense of

all time. Blah blah blah blah blah. That sounds awfully intriguing to me when you think about this defense having a lot on talent and not a lot on leadership. And there's another point. He's available, Yeah, very available, because when you put a staff together, you may have all these guys you like, they may not be available. So you know, right now, name me an available defensive coordinator that you would sink your teeth into. And that's hard to Yeah, I mean to start. Oh, no, that is

a name that kind of saying is available. Well, he's on the Saint staff. I don't think he's a linebacker. Yeah, but but that you might. We've talked about this before. I mean, you could be quality control. And as long as you're not getting right offered as the head coach, you're still under contract, right, and you have to look at what his contract is, yeah, which and that's never public. Although I Mike Nolan's name has gotten thrown out there. Um he was. McCarthy worked for him for a year

when he was the forty nine ers head coach. I don't see any other corresponding moves. But I mean, obviously a long time defensive coach in this league. Dad was coach here, right, Yeah, Yeah, So there's yeah, there's ties there a late great Dick Nolan that's gonna be that. I mean, and again for the eighteenth time, they're nothing official has been announced. It certainly sounds like McCarthy's going to be the ninth head coach of the Cowboys, but it's not official. But if it is, the next question

is what does that mean about this staff? Because for all the guys that are out of contract, there's just as many that are under contract, several of whom I think Jerry Jones probably wants to keep around. And is Mike McCarthy willing to play ball with that? And I this is just me. If this deal gets done, then we'll find out pretty quickly. I just I just have this gut feeling that there's I mean, there at least two two names come to mind immediately, Kellen Moore and

John Kittna. And I just feel like I wonder if Mike McCarthy kind of had to acquiesce and say, you know, if I'm going to be your head coach, yeah, I'm willing to play ball and keep those guys around. Well, there's nothing wrong with Kitna being your quarterback coach, right sure, And if you think about what some of these other head coaches are doing, you can keep Kellen Moore to do all the coordinator work and then you're the guy on game day sort of the way Bill did it.

He had coordinators, they weren't coordinators. Bill called the plays, he passed. He had a passing game and a running game coordinator and Peyton Haley. And there's nothing wrong with having a young guy kind of do all the leg work during the week and then and you're not freed up. That's what people are doing, right, I mean. And McCarthy was the Packers play caller for most, if not all, of his tenure there. I looked this up. He there was one year in twenty fifteen he gave it up.

He gave it up to Tom Clements and I looked up the stats. They were twenty third in total offense, fifteenth and scoring and he took it back to you. I had to say one year. I knew that if you did it for one year, well, you know, if you remember twenty fourteen, they were on the just on the cusp of the Super Bowl again, had an error

on special teams. I believe you. See you keep saying that, Yeah, you keep mentioning the dropped on site kick, but you don't ever bring up the thirteen point lead in the fourth quarter that just dwindled away. Actually, I think it was bigger than that, that's honestly, And like I said, I gotta do is fall on the ball and you're in the Super Bowl. All you gotta do is like coach a better fourth quarter and you win that game comfortably.

That's honestly. All the officials have to do is see that Dez caught that ball and they're not even in that game. That's that's a different conferenation. That's much different conversation. No, I want to go back and look at this, but my point is they lost that game, and I think there was nineteen to seven with eleven minutes to play.

The word was that after that loss, he wanted to be more of a walk around guy to kind of keep the pulse of everything, and the offense wasn't what it normally was with a healthy Aaron Rodgers in twenty fifteen, and he took it back. So yeah, he has been buying large. I believe the play caller in Green Bay for many years. I mean, I bet Sean Payton has

an offensive coordinator. Do you think Carmichael anything more than just a title because he's doing it, So you would need somebody to do that, and you need probably somebody on the staff to retain that has some connection to the team. Yeah. Yeah, I remember Wade Phillips said that several years ago when he joined the staff. He said,

you know, coaches will always do that. You never just just wipe out the entire staff, because what happens is is that you end up making the same mistakes on these guys, you know, So it is good to have a couple of holdovers to say, all right, tell me about him, and if not, because you you're just gonna go, well, this guy's you know, this guy looks great. What's the problem.

And you know, they kind of have some history there, and the perceptions already out there that Jerry's going to force these coaches on Mike McCarthy, But I wouldn't view it as forcing No, it's kind of like Matt Rule turned down the Jets job last year because he didn't want that. And if McCarthy does sign a contract to be the Cowboys coach, it's because he agreed in principle that this that he's okay with whatever is going to

remain over from the last staff. I would assume he's not going to sign onto a job without having a pretty clear idea of what Jerry wants to do with the staff. And I'm sure and also, when coaches interview for jobs, they've always got a short list of who they would hire and who they want, So I'm sure that you know that's part of the discussion here. Yeah. Oh, that's the first question they ask you during the interview.

It's like, what kind of staff you're going to put together? Well? Yeah, and and basically I think I think it's the other way around too. I think that the coach ask how many guys do I get? I know that that's what happens in college. You're like, all right, I get go to this place, I can take four with me. I can go this place, I can take seven. So I bet you Mike McCarthy has a number of how many people he can take and which guys are going to stay Where I wonder is where does if at all?

But where or how does Jason Witten factor in here? Because you know he could be a coach on staff. I mean, from what I've been told about Witten is that you know, yeah, he wanted to be a head coach somewhere, and he still might. But if he has an opportunity to go and learn from some people's, some veterans, and this would be one of those cases, you know,

maybe he's got a role somewhere. I believe Doug must nuss Meyer is out of contract, yes he is so well, and Win hasn't announced what he wants to do, no, but he has said that at some point in his life future he would like to get into coaching, as his grandfather did it, his brother's doing it. I was actually on a similar line. I was thinking, um, you know,

because McCarthy obviously was in Green Bay forever. They drafted Randall Cobb while he was there, So a lot of people kind of tie those you know, connect those dots, like, oh, maybe this helps their chances of bringing back Randall Cobb. Mike McCarthy's also from Pittsburgh. Which is where Sean Lee is from. And I don't think they really have a history together. But I was like, damn, connecting those just just reaching, just grabbing at straws right now, why not

don't that's an interesting that's interesting. Well, I mean, I think there's going to be a new linebackers coach. That's true. Ben Bloom is out of contract. I believe it's the team doesn't tell you. They don't know none of It's these coach contracts really like they do players. But that's the reports. I think probably need to hire the defensive

coordinator before we hire the linebacker. I'm gonna say that's there's gonna be if this would do it, you would think this sounds like it should be official by midweek. And if that's the case, then you get the ball rolling. I mean, I said last night that I would be surprised if they went to the Senior Bowl without a head coach. Obviously, like that definitely looks like it's gonna like they're gonna have a head coach when they go to the Senior Bowl. But let's say, I mean, let's

say they finalized this Wednesday. That gives them almost two weeks before they even go to Mobile, Like I would assume they'll have a pretty finalized staff by the time they get to Mobile. I think would be an advantage to do that. Yeah, and you know, if this does get done, and again it's not official, maybe we shouldn't be surprised that it's taken a few days because you know,

Jason was in the final year of his deal. There was not a commitment to him beyond twenty nineteen, so you had to know Jerry and Stephen had a shortlist of what they wanted to do plans if this didn't work out, and obviously it was a disappointing finish to the season. Well they should have if they were due and their due diligent, right, you got to have a list just in case. And I think that's question they did.

I think that's what weirded people out though, And I think y'all's theory sounds right that they didn't want to just step out on Jason Garrett until they had a good contingency plan in place. But I think most people would say is like, at this point it needed to be somebody different, even like it just needed to be another guy. Even if you didn't get the Mike McCarthy like,

you just got to try something new. So the thought that, you know, let's say, well, if the Panthers had like snatched Mike McCarthy out from under you on Friday, you're really just gonna meet with Jason again and be like, all right, let's run this thing back. Like that doesn't sound like a good idea at all. And I think I think Mike McCarthy is probably you know, some fan bases, and there's some fans out there that aren't really that

excited about it. But you know, I think that he's into a good situation because for the most part, like you said, just anybody knew was what fans will want. And so if this guy's done it and he's actually been to the place that Garrett couldn't go, you know, the championship Game, obviously Super Bowl. I'm sure there are people out there that don't like it, but I think

most people are probably at least okay with it. For a lot of the reasons that we've already talked about is like he doesn't have to learn on the job. Like Mick pointed out, he's been here before. He can command authority in the locker room. He's obviously with whatever you say about Rogers, like, he's gotten his team deep into the playoffs, and so with a roster like this, you can just plug and go and if it doesn't work, then two three years from now you're like, well, let's

start this thing over. And but it'll be a drastically different team by that point, you know what I mean. Yeah, older team for sure. Most playoff wins since two thousand and six for coaches, Bill Belichick has twenty. The next guy is John Harbaugh and Mike McCarthy at ten. So, like you guys said, he has done it. And the thing, Dave, I know you're talking about college coaches and guys that have a lot of bright ideas that would be interesting candidates.

But to me, if they hire McCarthy, they're getting they're getting that, but they're getting the experience with it. Because I said this on our podcast, our Joint podcast last week. If you're gonna move on from Jason Garrett, you're gonna pay Dak Prescott a lot of money one way or another next year. This year, whether it's the franchise tag or a long term deal, he's coming back. You gotta get every penny out of that you got to make sure he is can reach another level than what he

did this year, which was a terrific season. Thirty touchdown passes, almost a franchise record in passing yards. That's got it. That's my opinion. It would be your main investment to get as much as you can out of Dak And I don't know if there's a better guy out there to do that than McCarthy based on his resume. So you guys talked about McCarthy being with Aaron Rodgers or Brett Farve. Yeah, how many did Belichick have? Twenty? Say again Belichick twenty? Yeah, he had a pretty good one too,

any of those without Brady? No? No, did he get one in Cleveland? Maybe? Oh? Well, I don't think so, Mick I dodn't think anybody's going to minimize his record now. But then then you look at hardball. You know, in hardball, is that probably going to pass McCarthy? I would imagine. I mean, we'll see what happens in the playoffs, because as we saw this past weekend, you know, there's there's some good, strong parody in those top twelve teams. And

you know what three road teams won. Yeah, and the fourth one was over time, and you know, Buffalo had plenty of chances to win that game, or you know, not plenty, but they had chances enough enough chances to win. You know, that was that was a good game. And so what I'm saying is going back to hardball, he I mean, he's won with Flacco. I guess is that it was that was Billick, Billick, it was. I mean, it's been Flacco. I mean, they got to the playoffs

last year, but they lost to the Chargers, I believe. Yeah, I don't know if he's won a game without Flacco yet, I'd have to look. But he's a guy that's totally readvented himself in terms of embracing analytics, they say. And also, nobody in their right mind is putting Flacco in the conversation with Rogers and Brady either. Oh no, no, he had a heck of a playoff run in twenty twelves,

I guess. And that's like I'm coming around on this idea because to your point, McCarthy is like, he's got proven credentials, but you've also like you've watched him, right, if you know football at all, you've watched him for a decade, like like he's kind of stubborn with his playbook, Like his late game management doesn't seem amazing again, you know, kind of bungled the end of that NFC championship game.

It's all stuff that every coach does. But anybody that's watched football for the last fifteen years has seen it. You know, they've watched Packer games and they're like, oh, I don't know about this. Mike McCarthy, like you kind of let's say he's like he's at like an eight, like you're getting an eight, and that's great, But then you think about, let's just for example, use Lincoln Riley.

He could be theoretically, in your mind, he could be like the Sean McVay who's like a ten, and you know, the entire NFL world is talking about, like, look how Lincoln Riley has changed the game. Like remember how absurd it was with Sean McVay last year. It could everybody getting hired around the league Kingsbury because you're looking for the next McVeigh and it could be that, and the potential is intriguing, but the risk that it doesn't pan

out is obviously what scares you. And so McCarthy. Like I said, it's just a steady good hire. It's probably like you're not just jumping for joy about it. But I can't knock it either. Sorry. Can y'all think of a game where Garrett kind of like messed up at the end of the game and didn't they didn't win because of late game management. Can y'all think of a specific game. I mean, I'm not saying it didn't happen. It happens. You know that, you can, you can. There's

a few losses there. I mean, I know it's happened, But like to come up with one shocking example, Well, the one he gets accused of and wrongly was the end of the game, but he had kicking coach and his special team's coach running down the sideline yelling at him to call time out because they got on the

field late. I think My point to that is, I think and there's some fans I know that that are they're oh, this game, in this game, But rarely do they ever say, well, what a great job by that coach to win that game and ten playoff wins for McCarthy. I guarantee you it happened where they did a nice job stretching the Cowboys was one of them. I mean, and in that game in fourteen and in sixteen, actually

think about it, he did. His best decision in that fourteen game was to challenge to catch, right, he threw a red flag. Yeah, that that won the game for him. I'll always I'll always be annoyed about the way Garrett handled the end. Coincidentally enough, the end of the twenty seventeen Packers game, they didn't try it. They didn't try it all to run time off the clockt and just gave Rogers the ball back with like forty eight seconds. So you wanted your cake and eat it too, right, No,

you wanted to make sure you didn't lose. I want you also wanted to run the time up. Look at Sean Payton yesterday, right, Oh, Sean a lot of stuff. He could have spent a time out and saved ten seconds and that that honestly, that time out to the to the locker room. This kind of proves My point is like, if you've watched any coach for long enough, you've seen him screw stuff up. It's it's just that we're so close to it here, and the fans are

too because they're following their team. It's but you only see it here. But I mean the Packers are just like the Cowboys. Like if they're playing a moderately interesting game, it's going to be on national TV. They've been in the playoffs more than almost anybody over the last decade, so you've had a lot of chances to see Mike McCarthy screw stuff up. And that's if you're not excited about this higher that's probably why. And it doesn't mean

he's a bad coach. It's just you get you know, you color your opinion based on like the fifteen percent of what you see in these huge moments and not the noon kickoff against the Panthers in September. So what's the bar for Mike McCarthy? Why don't we uh, why don't we talk about that when we come back? Good tease? Yeah, big with the tease. I love it. Let's let's talk about the bar for Mike McCarthy if indeed he is hired as the Cowboys next coach next on our Roundtable podcast.

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The phrase two going to be true comes to mind. Yet there it is a rich, delicious doctor Pepper paradise. Wait did did that can of doctor Pepper just open itself for you? They all are as if to say, so nice to treat you? And even though it feels weird to talk to we, can you pick one up and say, it's so nice to be treated doctor Pepper, so nice to treat you. There's your music, nick Like it sounds like an air raid. Welcome back inside the

s WBC Mortgage Studio. It's been about eighteen hours since the Cowboys announced Jason Garrett would not have his contract renewed, and now we've got reports that Mike McCarthy might be on his way to replace him, and Mick left us with a wonderful tease a few minutes ago. If it is Mike McCarthy as the cowboys ninth head coach in franchise history, what's the bar for him? Yeah? What's the what's the what is it for success? What does he have to do? I think we know. I mean, yeah,

it's the same as it was. So what do you do if you don't get a new guy? I mean, so every year you don't go to Oh no, no, no no, you're to some degree, this is a clean slate, right, Like Mike McCarthy doesn't have to He doesn't have to get to the super Bowl next year to keep his job, get to the playoffs? What about that? What if he goes eight and eight? Have you seen that? What if

he goes eight and name? So, do you realize that in Garrett's nine years, eight times either went to the playoffs or had a chance in game fifteen or sixteen to go to the playoffs. Eight of the nine. Yeah, but how many did he get there? I just said, so the next guy better be that close, if not better. McCarthy went like eight years and art not here. I know, but I mean that sounds really great, like it's a great statistic until you remember that he lost most of

those I got it, I got it. Yeah. And the fact that those you know, those teams were eight and eight and lost in the last game of the year to go to win the NFC East, which meant that, you know, nine and seven I think won the NFC's that just goes to show how bad it really is. I mean, you know, when when you're when you're getting to play the same six teams that are all bad, you know, that's that just kind of goes to show just how average or below average or team really was.

I think one of them went ten and six, I can't remember which one. They were eight and eight, and I thought they had a chance every year, but they the team that they were nine and seven and a few ti It's actually it's that's a point I thought of earlier in the show. I pulled up the Packers playoff history, and something that jumps out to me is like when he gets there, or when he has gotten there, his team is successful more often than not. And when I say successful, I mean they win a game at

least like twenty ten. Obviously, this story'd run through the playoffs as a wild card. They won games in twenty twelve, They obviously twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, and twenty sixteen. You're winning at least one, if not multiple games. Ironically, I think they went they went one and done three times. Once was a twenty thirteen team where you know, Rogers broke his collar bone and they barely got in two thousand and nine, early in Rodgers career, they lost in overtime.

They also they went one and done with like arguably the best team of the modern era, the fifteen and one Packers, lost to the Giants in their first playoff game. That sucks, but way more often than not, when he has gotten to the playoffs, they've managed to put a run together. So that's intriguing at the very least. Here's how I kind of define it. The expectations one of

the frustrating parts. I know, they haven't been to a Super Bowl or won a Super Bowl in twenty five years, but they also haven't They've been on this roller coaster track of getting in and not getting in, and getting getting in and not getting in. And there are certain teams. I mean, you look around the NFC, it's hard to win a Super Bowl. The Eagles have won, the Saints have won. Sean Payton all those years one, Mike mccarth

and Aaron Rodgers all those years won. Seahawks won. But those team you point to those teams and they're usually in the field. They at least give themselves a shot, And to me, that's got to be the expectation that every year we're in and and watching these games over the weekend. It's a crapshoot. These are all close games. There's not much difference between these teams. But that's got to be the more of the consistency that I think the Joneses are looking for. That's just my opinion. I

mean that point a lot. And there have been different reasons for why not, obviously, Mick. I mean, twenty fifteen, they lost their quarterback. Twenty seventeen, you lost seek for six games. You know, there have been reasons for it. It's not all on Jason Garrett. But what year was it in Washington, Twelve or thirteen when Romo was playing with the back that needed surgery, um the final game and yeah, I'm getting so twelve they lost the last

game in the year to the red Skins. Thirteen he heard his back in the second to last game and then couldn't play the last Kyle Orton played against Philly. That's so, you know, some bad for Jason Garrett during this run, There's no question about it. But that's the expectation. Yeah, you know, they just gotta give themselves more chances at this. There's been bad luck, obviously, but you know for nine years. I mean I was gonna say, like there has been

bad luck, but a decade long trend. Like I said, I mean, he's had a long time in the chair. There's no doubt about twenty thirteen the I mean the Packers had a similar thing happen to them. They didn't have Rogers for the meat of the season. They actually came down here with Matt Flynn and overcame a twenty six to three deficit to keep their playoff hopes alive and wound up winning the division on the last day

of the year. So there has been some bad luck, but you can overcome bad luck a lot of times too. I am intrigued Orton throwing that interception on the last position. I'm intrigued looking at this, like, Okay, oh seven, they make it with far oh eight, they don't make it in Rogers's first year, and then from nine to sixteen to your point, like they're in it every year. Of course, Aaron Rodgers is a big part of that, but that's pretty shocking consistency. And these weren't all world beater teams,

by the way, and one year they didn't. They had a rookie quarterback took over for Rogers. Yep, and here a kid from you. So yeah, I know you're talking about Hanley or Huntley. Um. You know the thing is is you can you can say, well, no, they they've had the best quarterback or one of the best quarterbacks in that time. But who have been the running backs? I mean, I don't know. I've mean that there's been a bunch of them. Uh, Lacy and you know different.

I can't even think of all all those guys. Got a couple of good years out of Lacy obviously. Jones and Jamal Williams have been there for the last two or three years. Montgomery at one point going i'd have to I mean, I want to say I'm on mine, but he did not play for Mike McCarthy. It's kind by years and with the Pats you got Brady and then it's kind of a rotating cat. So so if you know, Mike McCarthy should be a good enough coach to like, all right, because all the really good coaches

to say, all right, what do I have? They can work with that. So no, he doesn't have the best quarterback in the NFL with the best arm. He's got a young quarterback who can you know he can he can win some games. He's going to be as competitive as you'll get. He's not the most accurate of quarterbacks, but he can throw the ball around, you know, evident by those yards. But he does have one of the best running backs in the in the NFL, and so maybe from that standpoint that you know, the game will

be a little bit different. It's it's not he doesn't have Rogers, but he has Zeke and that's something better than he's ever had in those teams. I think. I think that's an amazing point. Rob is like, I mean, obviously, the goal is to you know, reach your first conference title game and when your first super Bowl and forever. But barring that, get be in the conversation every year.

And that's that's been the maddening thing about the Cowboys, obvious, I mean, the maddening thing is that they haven't won a Super Bowl since ninety five. But on top of that, they can't sustain success to save their lives. And I will say this, it's weirdly formulaic at this point. It go it's playoffs heartbreak slash disappointment playoffs disappointment going back

for longer than I care to recount. I'll say this though, it is hard to do because how many teams they go to the Super Bowl one year don't even make it. The Rams are the latest team, but there's been a lot of teams like that that it does speak to the parody. I mean, it's not easy to do. Half the playoff field turns over every year. So why didn't Bill be able to accomplish that? Bill parcels ourselves here

at the Cowboys. Well, he was starting kind of from scratch in two thousand and three and was the greatest coroaching job better arguably, Yes, And then what happened to oh four, he lost his quarterback, Yeah, you know the quarterback quarterback. You know, it went with a forty year old, and they weren't They weren't as good. And in the next two years they were nine and seven. But you know,

they caught a hot streak there. Actually they were ten in six, I believe with with Ramos with Bloods playoffs and we'll drop the snap. That's what happened. So the last time they went to playoffs back to back years oh six and no seven six O seven And how about this that which won't be changed next year and it can't be changed until two years, not since Chan Gailey.

Chan Gailey's the last coach that has led the Cowboys to back to back playoffs in six and he got fired right ten, six and eight and eight, Yeah, and he got fired. Yeah, but no coach in Cowboys history has gone to the playoffs two straight years. Parcels couldn't do it. And then when Parcels did it and oh six, Wade came into next year. So they have gone back to back years. Well, I mean Jimmy did it since Chan Gailey? Oh I thought, I thought you said in

Cowboys history and then obviously Tom Landry. Yeah, not the same coach has done it in back to back year, which is which is really impressive. When you look at that statu McCarthy and these teams, you know, that's that just blew my mind and Chan and Chan basically got fired because he couldn't win a playoff game. One year he gets wiped out by Minnesota and then the next year,

first year with Arizona, Arizona was the first year. Okay, here's a question that falls in line with that, if this deal is signed and finalized, how long do you think it would be? How long is the contract? Like coaching contracts, head coaching contracts are typically five years, right, that's what Jason had right a couple different times. How long? I mean four or five years? I'm sitting here with I mean, you might be right, and I mean, Mike

McCarthy's arguably the most desirable candidate on the market. He might have demanded that, But like the reason I ask in the first place, is this roster seems like it's set up now, you know what I mean? Yes, two to three year window. I think you've got a maximum of four years that you can expect this offensive line to play at this level, and it's probably less than that.

You've got a maximum of like four years where Zeke is really in his prime, DeMarcus Lawrence will be thirty and three four years, all of that type of stuff. And so is this a situation where it's like we're gonna give you three years because like we're not building from scratch. The team is here and not my point? Yeah, exactly. Well, and like I said, I don't know if McCarthy would

be willing to sign a shorter deal. But that's the vibe I get is like most teams when you sign a new coach or like this is the start of an entirely new era. We're gonna do all this new stuff. Like here, it's just like the team's here, let's let's get over the hump. And I wonder if that affects their expectations for when he does it and how quickly, etc. That's a great point. I mean, I feel like the team is here offensively, but defensively, there's a lot of questions.

There's a lot of guys up for free agency. Yeah, potential, it's gonna be a new look defense's coordinator. Yeah, that's that's gonna be an important hire for whoever is the head coach, if indeeded, but wouldn't h Yeah, they were three four for a long time with Dom Capers. But they don't have three four defensive ends here. They do not not they do, but one he's been suspended for like two years. Oh, Randy Gregory, he's not totally could

play linebacker. Yeah, three No, talking about three four edge rusher. You're right, they don't have any true three Crawfords. Crawford could play it, yes, and that's about it. Malik. Now here's the thing about Malik free agent and he's a free agent, but he was at one point he was first on the team in quarterback pressures. Now I think he finished second or third, but he's right up there.

Twenty five twenty seven. That's a lot of pressures for a guy that's playing the one in three, So getting up the field and holding your blocks and all that stuff at the same time. He might be able to do that. Now does he want that as a free agent or does he want to just say I'm going to take the money for a position that I did him good at. You know, um, but I'm just saying you could do they have the three four rushers right now that you're right about it, Randy Gregory, that's perfect

for him. But I mean, yeah, I mean it's mainly kidding. Yeah, which and I couldn't imagine even if that was in the long term plans, like Kim Smith, can't imagine them making that Smith think about it. Three four rush Yeah, but that guy's got a cover now. But he's covering now kind of yeah, And who do they pick on when he's covering? Does he have the length like the I mean Randy Gregory's fingertips touched the ground. I don't know. I don't know if Jalen's got the length to that

might be what I want him to do. What's your point? Swipe up there? What's he done? Probably the best is go forward? Yeah, and make plays forward. He has a knack for it. He's savvy doing it. Now. I guess it must be stated we don't know. Yeah, we don't know the status rod change in the formation. Chris Rochard, who interviewed with the Giants for their head coaching vacancy last week. Um, but yeah, we'll see what happens. There's a lot of questions to be answered. Still, would you

agree with me? Like this is not a defense that needs to be like utterly rebuilt. Like the pieces are in place for them to be good. Maybe not like absolutely elite, but I mean, if you're taking over a job, you're like, Okay, you have a you have a Pro Bowl caliber edge rusher. Um, you know you've got two really really good linebackers, assuming one of them comes back healthy. I mean that's two. When levels of your defense can't agree with you, there real questions. I really don't because

because they're not even under contract. Those guys aren't under CONTRACTE Well, the three you listed, but one of them hasn't proven that he's ready to play yet in Layton, and that one that scares me because he's got a neck injury. And Jalen Smith, I I don't know. I think he took a step back. I mean he didn't, there's no come out. Took a step back. So I got questions with Tyrone Crawford, I got questions with Malik Robert Quinn, Byron Jones. I don't Cheeto got benched later

in the year, Jeff Heats the free agent. But you needed an upgrade anyway? Where did it not take the next step? Jordan Lewis? Will you know Jordan Lewis is a good player. I think they should they should try to They should try to keep him for sure. But see, and what we're talking about is talking pass rush and pass defense, and they can't stop the run. I didn't say that there wasn't any work to do. I just know there's more pieces in place that can't expect the run.

When you are replacing a coach, they can't think about why they lost some of those games. They couldn't stop to shoot. Yeah, which we don't know what's going to happen. Maybe they'll actually be willing to invest in defensive tackles this offseason. Well yeah, another change, and do you change the concept of your defense, like the philosophy of get up the field, get up the field, and when they were getting up the field, the other team was going

down the field the other way. A really interesting point. I know we're running out of time, but you know there's a you know, just following people that are familiar with the Packers on Twitter. Bob Sturm is a lifelong Packers fan. Kevin Turner, Um, it'd be an interesting dynamic if McCarthy is the coach in terms of his dynamic with the front office, because Green Bay couldn't be less like this, Like Ted Thompson when he was there, like he in the Shadows, he doesn't talk to the media,

He does his own thing. He doesn't necessarily even to interact with the coach on a regular basis. We all know it's the opposite here, Like it's much more involved. The general manager is the most public figure in the franchise. That's I'm going to be interested to see. I think it's gonna be a huge departure from what he was used to in Green Bay, hopefully for the better. Well,

he understands he took I mean, he had an other job. Absolutely, he had our other interviews, right, so whatever, you know, the platform is, he understands going in. So many questions to be answered. We hope to get in to do another hour if you were to, we really could, really could, but I think we're out of time. I can go to twelve twenty. Oh, you got stuff to do. That's fair, that's fair, That's all right. We I mean, we'll call

it aday. We got reports that Mike McCarthy might be the next head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, not confirmed yet. Stay tuned to Dallas Cowboys dot com for all of the late breaking news. We'll let you know if we hear anything. Officials shows tomorrow on Wednesday, Yes, right, I believe talking Cowboys. You back at eleven, Okay, those guys are back, yeah, and Hanging with the Boys will be at twelve that day. So and the draft show starts on Thursday. Not that that really has anything to do

with this, Okay, Brian, I'm excited. Who's all with you? It'll be me, Kevin Turner, Jeff Kavanaugh. If you listen to our stuff, you're probably familiar with them. And my guy Kyle Yeoman, who's in the back right now joining us this year. Excited about that. Yeah, buddy, I thought that was a guy back there. That's Romo. Yeah, Romo face. Yeah, it'll be good. It was Kaden for a second. Kate is always in here. We gotta get kayten in front of the camera. Yeah, well all right, not today. Thanks

guys for thank y'all for joining us. Stay tied, tried, stay tuned for all breaking news of Dallas Cowboys. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club Minute