Episode 6 - Sabrina Stanley

You're listening to the global ultra-running podcast Talk Ultra. I'm Ian Callus. This is episode 236 of Tor Culture, and on this week's show we have Sabrina Stanley.

I've got Sabrina Stanley on the show after placing second uh Ultra Trail Snowdonia. Sabrina, welcome back to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Last time we spoke, um, I believe, if memory serves me well, it was about Nolan's fourteen. Yeah, I think we were in Germany, um And it was yeah, uh U T and D week or close too. Yeah. So, you know, you you've got a reputation of being somebody who likes tough and hard courses. Nolan's fourteen, hard rough.

Diagonal Day Fu. Um, you put yourself on the start line of Ultratrail Snowdonia. How did it live up to expectations? Oh, there were no expectations on I uh I saw the date of the race, I saw the elevation profile, um I wanted to qualify for U T and B, which you could, and so those were kind of the the main factors I was looking at and I would worry about the terrain and the race, which it definitely

You I'm saying there was no expectations, but the terrain was phenomenal. It was an amazing, amazing race. Um is that your first time racing in the UK? It was my first time in the UK. Yeah. Yeah. So um So the sort of it's quite a learning curve, isn't it? You know, the the terrain is is somewhat different to to what you get out in the USA.

Oh totally. Um I would say the the biggest outlier is the bogs. There's a I don't know how many miles of bog running that I did around sunrise and it was A lot of fun like a little kid running through mud puddles, but also you have to remember you're in a race. But I mean you just don't know if you're gonna think to your ankles or if you're gonna think up to your hips. Yeah. And it's a guessing game every time. Yeah.

Sort of pre race, I I'd messaged you and I said, D you know, have you got any idea of timings of where you might be at certain points? And And you sort of said, Well, no, not really, but you know, maybe a marathon in five hours and and I thought, Marathon in five hours? Here And I never questioned it and I thought, Well, you know, what am I to say what you can do? Um But I think

I think you got a little bit of a shock with UK terrain, didn't you? Yeah. So I when you had messaged me I I knew at that time I didn't have a crew. And so I had just I'm like, Well, if I don't have a crew, there's no point in putting up like a pay schedule for them to meet me at. So

I'm just gonna run it however my body allows, and I'm gonna be pretty conservative. Uh the goal the number one goal above all else was to finish. Yep. And so I didn't want to be redlining it the entire race. I kind of wanted to sit back. and make sure I didn't have any GI issues and have a fun race, you know, not be stressing the whole time about splits or who's behind me or who's in front of me. And so I didn't have literally a single time goal.

um at any of the A stations and yeah, you messaged me asking for my splits and I was like, Oh man, do you need splits for me? So let me just like look at the profile real quick and throw up like a rough estimate and I did zero research on what the train was like during those splits. And yeah, they were Comically fast. Yeah, I would have been very impressed if you'd have done yours flat times. Um but I uh you know

y you you were running a really, really good and solid race. Consistent pacing and in in fact actually I think probably as the race went on, um, you were even N I'm not so sure whether speeding up is the right word, but certainly maintaining the pace. which I think is key in a in a long hundred mile that is so challenging. Um and of course you were gifted with what was a a perfect weekend for for the UK. Um

Some would say it was maybe a little bit too hot, but it's rare that we get wall to wall sunshine like we did. So

So how did the race unfold for you and and and what was the experience like? Yeah, the um First twenty miles was definitely eye opening, like, okay, this is what I got myself into. I have no idea. Um, and around mile ten and a half, uh I

had gotten off terri not lost, but just diverted from the trail a few times by I don't know, fifty meters or so. And so I at ten and a half completely stopped, stopped my watch, reset it, put on the my GPX uh profile that I had on my watch and knew from there on out and that was all daylight and so I knew when night hit that I was gonna need that GPX file. just to to find my way, which I'm so thankful I did'cause I probably looked at that GPX file, man.

I don't know, at least once every quarter of a mile, just to make sure I was on course. The fog uh was pretty dense at points where I would pass somebody and three steps later look back and couldn't even see their headlamp. So Um, yeah, the the fog with the markings and just the wind and the fogs. So It was definitely I felt more of an adventure than I was anticipating, but I really enjoyed it. I w it was a nice, pleasant surprise.

And like I said, my m my mental standpoint going into is just to finish. So I was gonna have a good time. I wasn't like racing, racing and and super intense and I never really talked to anybody during races because I'm so caught up in how fast am I going and am I wasting energy or am I getting caught up in conversation? So

This race I actually ran with somebody maybe fifty miles, um, like the middle fifty. And it was really nice. He had ran the race three times and so he kinda was like, Okay, this next section and would mentally prep me for it and Um yeah, it was just a really nice thirty-one hours on the trails. So like you said, the weather was perfect. Um, I'd never been to the UK so it was just very fairy tale with all the stone fences and cottages and sheets. It was it was truly a an amazing event.

It it was a great way to see that part of Wales, without a doubt. There is no better way. Um I I I I think I'd prefer to do it over three or four days rather than in one go like you, but but certainly it's a great way to go sightseeing. Um there was one thing that struck uh struck a chord with me at the finish line is is when we were chatting and you said Never DNF in the night, it's too easy. And that really that really stuck with me.

So what was the temptation like during the night for you to DNF? Oh, it wasn't there. I think mentally going in, knowing I didn't have crew There was one drop bag location and that was mile fifty five. And so and I knew I hit it sometime in the night. And so I was just like mentally not like

trying to get the mile to pass faster. It's like when you get to mile fifty five, you can take as long as you want. And so that was like I said, the middle of the night and When I got to mile fifty five I took my time, I had two bowls of chili, I put on dry socks, I um reloaded on gels and just had like a nice chat with the aid station workers and It wasn't

there was never even a question in my mind, like, is this the end of the road or anything like that? And I don't even know if I where and when I could have dropped if I wanted to. It's just like okay, like this section's done.

I got to the ha essentially the halfway point. My drop bag is done. I don't have to worry about that anymore. Um, and I'm gonna head back out and Yeah, there was no the nighttime like I said, that was I was also running with someone at that point and we were kinda having fun trying to find the course markers and just going going up and down these mountains and just though sun came up and the moon was beautiful right before that and it was just I there was just never a point

where I wasn't having fun or was dreading this mile or or was in a low spot. It was very consistent. Um, this is just what

what trail running is when maybe there is any pressure on you. Yeah. You sort of said as well after the race that um The it when I was asking you, you know, to try and explain how the difficulty was is that you said it's like Nolan's fourteen being a rape. So for those people listening who

don't really know what Nolan's fourteen is. Can you can you try and ex describe it so that they have an idea of what you mean? Yeah, there's a lot of off trail and just kind of navigation that's involved. Um and although it was a marked course

As I mentioned, some of the markings had had somehow disappeared and we weren't or it seemed to me, maybe in daylight it would have been different, that we weren't on a trail a lot. We were just through these foggy meadows. Um and then any time there was an obvious trail that you would

be drawn to, you would look at your GPX file and be like, oh, the trail is actually this less prominent one that's more of a sheep trail. And so anytime I was on uh what seemed to be a natural path, I was often off course. Um and so yeah, it was just a lot of navigation, a lot of um off trail stuff. And the the course itself requires so many different skill sets. It's not just

you know, dirt running or rock running. As I mentioned there's fogs and there's like some like legit rock climbing I would say. Yeah. Um And yeah, the the terrain varied so much. And then there's also a handful of flat miles that were a lot of fun. There was miles where you felt like you're in the middle of nowhere, then you get in um, to some really popular trails, you know, twenty five miles from the finish. And so it was a lot of varied terrain.

Uh uh and how does a race like U UTS compare in terms of organization and infrastructure say in comparison to a US race Um,'cause that's one of the things that we get told a lot is that, you know, US races tend to be a little bit more low key, a little bit more sort of uh random in a way, um whereas coming to the Europe and and coming to the UK there's a a bit more Razmatas, a lot more people. Uh did you notice that at UTS?

Uh I would say the the biggest area of a race where that stands out is a start and finish. The the amount of people there watching just the um I guess the archway or or not even sure what you call it. At the beginning, just the the um The way that they celebrate you and make it a really big deal when you start on your journey and when you finish your journey in terms of the announcers, um

a the award ceremony. Everything is is kind of a big deal and you you feel it when you're there. Yeah. Um during the race itself, I would say they're pretty similar. Um Yeah, and then another big difference that that I think Americans would notice is the gear list. When you're running in Europe, you have a required gear list and there are gear checks along the way and

I appreciate that'cause you're carrying all this extra weight. So if you're gonna carry that extra weight, I appreciate that they make it kind of a level playing field where randomly at mile forty they're gonna say, Where's your long sleeve or your extra um headlamp or something like that. We're in America. They're just kinda like, Good luck. We hope that you uh have trained enough and we hope that you know what it's like to run in the mountains and

If you bring a uh in or a warm blanket, that's up to you. If you have an extra raincoat or you know, whatever it is, it's like you could have an empty pack essentially with no calories at all and they're just like best of luck to you and send you off. So with a little bit, um, I don't know if organized is is the right word but

Yeah, there are some differences from running in America to Europe for sure. So go going to the mandatory kit and and interestingly the mandatory kit for UTS was somewhat exhaustive. um and confusing I think. A lot of people were very confused between winter kit, summer kit, hot weather kit, cold weather kit, um Some of the items that were optional, like a a needle and thread. Um I'm not not quite sure how many people were gonna go sewing on the uh on the on the race, but

Um, do you think it's a good thing or a bad thing? Um, I mean I I guess from a US perspective, it puts the onus on the the runner to be uh responsible for themselves and their own safety, whereas in Europe and the UK it's about the race saying we are organising this event and we stipulate that this is the mandatory equipment that will keep you safe.

What are your thoughts on it? Uh I have mixed feelings. I Well, if I were an R D I would not have one. But I also understand that there's probably some sort of insurance policy where they have to have a certain level of requirement. Sometimes it can be extensive in terms of, you know, you have to have a rain jacket and a long sleeve and you have to have rain pants and tights and feel like maybe just rain pants would work, you know,'cause those will keep you warm enough. But also I

and not running a race and I don't have to be accountable for X number of runners and safety and you know, somebody who is potentially gonna take four to eight hours and body center might get really low. And there's been I've had races where they require essentially Two headlamps and a backup battery for each, and then going into the race, I'm like, this is silly. And then I go through every single one of'em. So you just never know what you're gonna need.

And as long as I think every athlete is carrying the mandate mandatory equipment, it's fair'cause you all have the same weight and um So if a race has it or doesn't, it doesn't bother me. Um but yeah, as long as athletes aren't cutting corners or anything like that, I think it's if it makes the race feel better and if it makes it safer for the other runners then let's do it. Yeah. So you're you're you're thirty one hours in the in the Welsh countr countryside. Um

Uh how how long did it take you to recover and and m now that you've had a a a good few weeks to think about it, was it all a very positive experience for you? Definitely. Yeah. So I So the race I finished um what was it Saturday night and flew home Sunday morning uh no, I'm sorry, I flew home Monday morning pretty early. Well, I had a roughly five hour drive to the airport and um

Yeah, just two flights and my time schedule's all off. I got home and I had to take Avery to the airport so I think I walked in my into my house like ten thirty at night. Tuesday or no, maybe it was Monday night and then had to leave for the airport at like three AM. Okay. Um which is an hour drive. And so My whole sleep schedule was really messed up after that and I got pretty sick the immediate week following that and I think it was just my body was just wrecked. Um

So I I took that whole week off and basically just laid in bed. And then the following week I was starting to recover and took another week off just to relax. I think you know I took from the time I finished the race fifteen days without

any running. I then slowly eased back into it and I'm and back to training now and I'm feeling pretty good. Um but yeah, all in all it was a a very positive experience. I love the UK. I had so much fun there. I wanna go back as more of a tourist where I'm not focusing on a race and kind of explore a little bit more and I um group is Western Washington and so it felt very similar to home in terms of the weather patterns and just the greenery and I I felt really

at home in a bizarre way even though I've never been there before. So I would really like to go back. Yeah. Now your or one of your key reasons for for doing the race was to to get a UTMB slot which Obviously you've now got placing seconds. Um, is U T M B on the calendar for this year now or is it gonna be next year? I think it's gonna be well maybe both. Who knows? But yeah, two thousand twenty three, uh

Man, I still haven't registered, but yeah, that's the plan. Uh I've been kind of mapping out my summer in terms of training and my time in Shamani.

So yes, that's that's the goal right now. Yeah, okay, great. That that's superb. Now I'm I'm gonna touch on last year's UTMB, um because um and and I know this is a sensitive subject. Um you you trained meticulously for it. Um I think probably you were in the in the shape of your life and then suddenly like days before UTMB you got COVID. Um and you know, th there's not a lot that anybody can say when something like that happens and I and I know that you you know, you really had to

sort of like take time and and and sort your headspace out to to sort of get over the you know, the disappointment of that happening. Um You looking back, how how do you look back at that now and and are there any positives that you can take away from that sort of really negative experience? Oh, I had it was rough. So yeah, I tested positive. Monday, uh, late morning for COVID and I I kinda sensed it was coming on, but yeah, Monday late morning of of race week I tested positive.

And it was just a bizarre feeling. I was in a athlete house and so I wanted to respect the other athletes. So I felt like a hermit. I had to kinda quarantine in my room and didn't want to be any the kitchen or the other community spaces to make sure that they didn't get sick. And then as soon as possible I I moved out of there and got my own hotel room. Um So I kinda felt like a little bit like a leper almost. And then I can't even go go to aid stations and cheer on my other teammates because

then I would expose them. So you're just confined in this hotel room, watching U T V happen and it's something that you had been dreaming about. Now for years upon years. I put in the best training block of my life. I felt I felt as fit as I've ever felt and super fast and just ready to race. Um so yeah, the pivot from there did not happen

uh, very s smoothly, unfortunately. And I just have never dealt with that level of of disappointment. I don't think I dealt with it well mentally, even when I thought I had. Um Yeah, so it was a it was a challenging winter. I'm happy to be racing again and I feel like I am making a better pivot. Yeah. This go around and and shifting into summer season and feeling good a about where my training is and my spring races.

So yeah, I mean I just have to tell myself that everything happens for a reason, as much as I hate that that um fallback that whatever would have happened during that race wasn't meant to be and that this year it is and

Um it makes for a better story in the long run and I'm I'm certain that I will run U T and B one day and I'm gonna run it well. And I need to get that first U T and B out of the way so that I can start to improve upon it and and figure out that race. I mean I've spent all summer on the course last year and so I feel confident with the terra and and running on it and I'm excited.

to see where this year goes and keep building on that performance. Cool. I mean the funny thing is is U T S is a qualifier for U T M B and and U T S is far harder than U T M B. Yeah, it's funny like that. Uh there's a race here, same story, you ray one hundred, it's a very challenging race. And it's not a qualifier for hard rock and it's right in its backyard. And so URA one hundred says we not we might not be a qualifier for hard rock, but hard rock is a can be a qualifier for us. And I just

It seems that that's pretty comical. Yeah, it's funny how some races like that are just

So far up above and beyond of of the qualifying rates that you're trying to get into. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got a really good block now, um, to get ready for the end of of of August. What what is the plan? Will will you sort of at some point head over to Chamony and spend a training block there? Definitely, yeah. I'll spend six weeks there. Um I'll probably end

So I want to do a two week paper and then right before that a four week training block. I then show up, you know, two or three days before I wanna start that training block just to adjust to the time and make sure those first few runs aren't legging too much. Um see I'll go over there roughly July seventeenth and be there through race day. Um yeah, I might do a fifty K or fifty miler I think early July just to see where my body is at and and make sure I'm still feeling

Pretty good and make any tweaks that needs to be made. Cool. Cool. Now l let's sort of segue into a another subject to talk about. Um I post UTMB on on social media you you posted a story about about the the start line of UTS having women at the front. Um and y you'll have to correct me if I get this wrong, but basically um somebody from the organisation had asked the women to come to the front so that

that it encouraged more women to enter the race. And and I remember you sort of asking the question, you know, is this the the best way forward? Um and You know, I I think for years female participation in races has been around about the fifteen, twenty percent mark and it sort of seems to stagnate a around that. Um

There are one or two races where th the numbers do go a lot higher, but they are few and far between. And I I just wonder, Sabrina, how how how do we get more more people, more women, um, on start lines? Okay, so as you know I'm very passionate about this subject and I can get myself in trouble talking about it. But I to me the answer is extremely simple. Um If it's an event that is sold out or lottery, I d I truly believe that it should be fifty percent women at that start line.

And I understand that maybe there's not fifty percent women registering and I think that's a bigger problem in our society in terms of childcare and how the household is set up and what women have had time for in training. Yep. I think that we can have an impact in trail running by allowing women not allowing,'cause I think we deserve it, but

Letting women have fifty percent at the start line. And I I believe that if we do that just for a handful of years, we will see numbers exponentially grow in terms of registrants. And so by not having So let's say we have a hundred spots at a race and ten percent are women that apply. Uh but we so to only allow women those ten spots because only ten women applied.

we're essentially keeping them hidden and saying that the onus is on them to figure out a solution. When there are men in the sport, men in positions of power That could allow us fifty spots and the next year that ten percent of registrants would skyrocket. But by keeping us at ten percent, we're always gonna have ten percent registrants And maybe that'll shift by one or two percent a year, but it's never going to have the growth that it could have if we just

share the spotlight with women a little bit more. And so by and yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with having women step up to the start line for um visual effect but I get what you're saying, Sabrina. Um And and I think I think what you're saying sort of works really well with something like Hard Rock One Hundred or say Western States where the field is greatly reduced and fur representation for men and women um is maybe the ideal.

But what about something like um well let's take UTM B week where you've got multiple races where thousands of runners come to Chamonix to take part. If if say for one of the key races, let's say C C C you you put the the race field as fifty percent men and fifty percent women and financially they need that race to be full to make the whole thing work. What happens if you you don't get fifty percent of the field?

um taking part. How how how do you get around that? So I I'm kind of confused'cause it does in it you C C C is still is Sold out every year, correct? Yes, but but I'm I'm just using that as a as an example because of numbers and and of course

with with C C C and and U T M B you've gotta get the stones to take part. So it's maybe not the best example. Um but I'm just using it from the point of view of You know, a a race will have X amount of people taking part because financially they need X amount of people towing the line to make the race viable.

Um and if you split the r the race number fifty fifty And you got fifty percent of the field being men, but but say another fifty percent of men didn't didn't get a place because the other half of the race is for women, but then only twenty percent decided to enter and then there's a thirty percent shortfall, what happens then? I mean I think if there's open spaces that aren't being grabbed by the women, then yes, let's fill them with men. But if there's essentially a wait list of

men and women trying to get on, there should I think that the start line should be fifty fifty. And maybe we do that for a few years and see that for whatever reason. Yeah. um it's not working, then I think the next and it would be a little bit more challenging to figure out how to do this, the next answer would be to have women have their own race. Yeah, I mean I think it's I think it's really important that

um that we do look at races as as a men's race and a women's race. Um you know, I mean mm the the man typically is going to finish first. Mae'n ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r Um and so it the men's race tends to get more emphasis and more PR because the man is the Outright winner.

Right. Uh but the but there is a men's race and a women's race and and for sure the the the women's winner uh at podium, top ten, whatever you want to call it, should get equal amount of coverage just as as the men's race does. Um so I think there's there's most definitely a a a learning curve and a change required in the sport to make sure that there is that happening. Um whether there should be uh two

separate races on different days, one's a men's race and one's a a women's race. Uh I'm not so sure about that. Um Just because I think that there are situations where we see women like yourself who are super, super strong, excelling and and impacting on the men's race. You know, I mean if we look at the history of UTMB. We we've had the top women, Rory Boseo, Courtney DeWalter, who've impacted on the men's top ten.

And and I think that's really important and and maybe that brings women's racing forward. It gives women more of a spotlight. Um, what do you think on that? Oh, I agree a hundred percent. I like I said, I think the first solution is to allow fifty percent women at the start line and for reasons that m we won't know until we try it, if for what it if there is a potential for that not to grow women in the sport then I think plan B um would be to have a

to allow us our own start line. But for now I think fifty percent is the answer. It's so that like you said, we can have those races where women are

um, you know, taking podium spots for men or winning overall and have that opportunity to shine to their full potential. Um Yeah, and I I think at the end of the day the problem with women not being as active in this word as men is just visibility and I g it all sends back to society and I like I said, we in trail running have the opportunity to change that in our sport directly and hopefully that has a wave effect through the sport and can I think, you know, in five, ten, twenty years that will

women will level out the playing field in terms of people registering for events. But until we make that big change, we're always gonna be confined to that ten percent. I I guess a good example is is c as we're speaking, the world mountain running championships are going on. Where all the different countries send a team of athletes, men and women, and there is equal men to equal women in every race. Now, of course, a team might not send a full team, so that...

where the shortfall would be. But if you think about a race starting and and let's say there's twenty countries with ten athletes from each country. The number of men and women is exactly the same. And and I guess in a way that's that's what you're looking at and sort of saying we should have in in in most races that that parity, the

The equal men, equal women. Yeah, for sure. And I mean that extends beyond racing too. That go falls on the companies that are sponsoring athletes. If you look at the Tarix team, we're fifty percent women, fifty percent men men. And that's intentional. That's not by accident.

They make sure for every female they sign they they sign a male or vice versa. And then the amount of money that they invest into each athlete is equal by gender as well. And so other companies can replicate that and I think There's just so many aspects of trail running where we can include women and make them more of a priority that we're not. H how are you helping to move that forward, Sabrina? I mean obviously you're you you're very passionate about it. Um I are you are you involved in

in any action groups to help make this change? I am not at the moment. And I spend a l way too much time thinking about it not to be I mean I Um listen to a lot of obviously podcast that encouraged gender equality. And I just stumbled upon this um woman, Sarah Spain, who's the ESPN commentator, who I think is just phenomenal in the way that she addresses the issue. Um I

keep telling myself I need to write a book, I need to do this, I need to do that. And I honestly haven't figured out how to manage the volume of training I wanna do, the volume of cross training I wanna do, to be as competitive as I want to be in the sport. I then also take on this whole other challenge of

making female quality a bigger piece of the pie in my life. Yeah. And I now all I can do is use my voice as much as I can, use my platform to speak on it. Um and I am open to helping any project as best I can and, you know, at some point when I'm not as competitive I would like to to do something more with it. And also It's I and I'm not calling you out in any way, but that's I think the problem with it is that

we are looking at women being like, Well what are you doing to fix it? What are you how are you impacting this when I'm just trying to be a professional runner and I see a problem in the sport. Like I said, I will use my voice, but also it it comes down to the the R Ds and the companies that are sponsoring athletes to that have the ability to make this change and It's just a lot on a plate to to look at women and say you have to be this phenomenal athlete and you have to be

also this like advocate who spends all of her spare time doing this and you also potentially have to be a mother and all these other things that you're in charge of to make sure that you are created equal when like I just want to be a professional runner. I didn't I don't I wish I didn't have to speak on this. I wish Like I trust me. Um I get my share of comments from people that I

am getting better at just blocking them as soon as they come. It's not it's an unfortunate passion project of mine that I stepped into because there is an issue. And um yeah, I I would like to do more with it at some point, but right now you have to get a le to a level that you have a voice so that you are heard. Yeah. And it's like what is that balance to um yeah to

To have a voice and then use it properly. Yeah. But that's why I bring it up on this podcast and you know, I think I'm I'm very proud in the twelve years that this podcast has been going that women get a a a a big voice on this show and always have. Um I I'm not exactly sure of my stats, but I wouldn't be surprised if if I've had fifty percent women and fifty percent men.

Um, you know, one of the comments that I get from people who listen to the show, you know, thank God you you do interview so many women because a lot of podcasts don't. Um and and I think it's it's important that, you know, this this show has a voice and and it's important to give that voice. Sometimes Even if it's right or wrong, y you know, you have to put something out there so people discuss, get a thought process, and decide how to move it forward.

Um are you aware of um uh a British woman called Sophie Power? I am not. Should I be? Yes. I feel like I should be if you're asking me. Yeah. Yeah. So Sophie Um, I've known Sophie for a few years and and recently I bumped into her in in Lanzarotti um and she was telling me, Oh, I'm doing a twenty four hour t track race. and I'm hoping to qualify for the G B team and and and basically she went and smashed it out of the park and got her G B vest.

But I'm sure you'll remember this. Sophie was the person who was photographed breastfeeding at UT M B. Yes. Okay. I actually am very aware of her. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So she has actually um been instrumental by creating she races. Um and for people who are interested if you go to Instagram at she dot races where she wants more women on the start line, equal experience when we race respect for our competition, let's make racing better. Um and she has been instrumental in changing policies at races.

for pregnancy redeferral, etcetera, giving women um exactly the same exposure as men. And and and, you know, if y i I I will get Sophie on the show. It's it's been a uh a plan of mine to to get her on the show to talk about it and to give more more um volume to to what she's passionate about. And Sophie's a mum of three. She's trying to compete at a high level. Uh and and it just goes to show you that that the the the voice is out there and they are being listened to. So

You know, this is this is maybe somebody who you could really connect with Sabrina and and add voice to. Oh definitely. Yeah. And now sorry I didn't have the name recognition. I do know who she is. I believe I listened to a podcast of hers um a while back. But yeah, no, uh the more the more m voices we can have, the more we can band together

Um and create real change. I'm definitely on board for, obviously. Cool, cool. Well look, you're moving into this really key phase now. Um I'm sure I'll be seeing you in Chamini. Um, very best of luck with the with the training block. Keep yourself isolated and away from people while you're in cheminy. Yeah. Let's make sure you make the start line.

And I'm sure the the listeners are gonna be really interested to see how UTMB goes for you this year. Oh well thank you for having me on today, Ian. Brilliant. Thanks so much. This is Talk Ultra. Once again, many thanks for listening folks. It's really, really appreciated. I know Speed Goat Carl has not been on the last couple of shows, but he will be back on the next one.

and we'll be discussing what happened at Western States and maybe a preview of what's coming up over the summer months, particularly UTMB. We really do appreciate you downloading the show. Please make sure that you subscribe on iTunes so that you get it automatically. We're also on Stitcher for iOS, Android Web Player, tune in. Spotify two. Back catalogue, show notes and other info is at IanCalless.com. I'm Ian Callers. Keep running.

You're listening to the global ultra-running podcast, Talk Ultra.