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Talkies, Jericho baby. Talkies, Jericho. Talkies, Jericho mama. Talkies, baby. All right, well, we're talking Jericho is the part of Thunder and Rock and Roll and we're all about the Rock and Roll today. Right after the mushy anticipated Duff Macagan joke. In the week. Chris Jericho, Duff Macagan, call me. I hope you're doing well. Everybody out there is doing well. Hey, listen, this man he walked into a funeral and he goes up to the wife and he said, do you mind if I say?
Shake your words? No. She's like, no, that would be really nice. He gets up on the podium and he says, bargain. And the wife says, thank you. That means a great deal. Thank you very much. Good bye. It was a good one. Duff is always delivering the goods on Friday like he always does. And guns and roses will be bringing it to you on the road all summer long. They're hitting the Middle East, Europe and North America.
Date start June 1st and Abu Dhabi, if you happen to be around. And Fazis less than two weeks away from the start of our spring tour. We kicked things off March 23rd in Bloomington, Indiana. We're rolling through April 17th 15 shows total lots of them sold out already Pittsburgh sold out Flint sold out Columbus is about to sell it if it hasn't already. Full itinerary at Fazirock.com come rock with the Fuzz come to the VIP meet and greet one of the best in the biz.
We will meet you take picks with you. Sign autographs play a private sound check for you go to Fazirock.com and we'll see you on the road lots of the VIP packages also sold out so once again all that information for you at Fazirock.com. All right, Chris Jericho's rock investing rage at see the five alive sold out in less than a month coming up January 26th of 2024. But we just finished up the four leaf clover and we've got another live podcast from the Jericho cruise.
This one is the evolution of 80s heavy metal. And it's a who's who of that era. We've got my brother good friend Rudy Sarso who was on board playing with quiet riot. I got to sing metal health with quiet riot and Rudy played crazy train with Fazi, which was amazing. Rudy also played with white snake, Dio.
So many other bands the guests who. Maumstein the list goes on and on and on PJ Farley from Fazi and trickster and John and Mark Gallagher form a one mile time favorite bands and one of the bands that stole the show on the cruise Raven. Everyone was on the ship in January everyone played great sets had great crowds and you know we've always got amazing music and podcasts on the ship.
So we had that as well the evolution of 80s heavy metal Raven were pioneer years of the British heavy metal scene the new wave of British heavy metal they talk about coming up when punk had taken over Europe they had to come to America to find real success. John and Mark from Raven talking about Johnny Z and Marsha Z from Megaforce Records and of course the last band Johnny Z ever signed with Fazi.
They changed their lives as it changed ours they remember their first ever tour were a little band called Metallica open for them they tell some great stories of a tour and about recently opening for Metallica at the hard rock live in Fort Lauderdale just a few months ago PJ talks about trickster getting started in the late 80s just as grunge was coming to the forefront of music.
He explained what was like to get his first gold record at the age of 17 and it basically experiences mind blowing success out of the gate with trickster and how it was gone so quick when grunge hit just over a year and a half later. Rudy's got great stories about joining Aussie solo band with his friend Randy Rhodes playing with Kevin Dubro and Frankie Malin quiet riot when the band was still called Dubro.
He remembers making the legendary metal health album and how that studio experience prompted him to quit Aussie's band to join up with Kevin and Frankie the whirlwind ride they had with quiet riot so many great stories also about Randy Rhodes his close friend. This is a great night we had a great time on the Jericho cruise for the Clovers let's get to the evolution of 80s heavy metal with PJ Farley John and Mark Gallagher and the legendary Rudy Sarso right here right now on talk is Jericho.
Alright guys how's it going? We did a great podcast last year with Striper in this room it's a great room we're happy that you guys showed up and I wanted to talk about heavy metal in the 80s basically and we've got three eras of 80s heavy metal
rockers here we got John and Mark Gallagher from Raven we got Rudy Sarso over here from every band every band of 80s quiet riot Aussie white snake Dio you name it he was in it he was in Kaja Gugu and a half for a while as well and then we got PJ Farley from Fawzi but he was in trickster and is in trickster.
So yeah I just wanted to kind of talk with you guys about I mean obviously we can start with Mark and John because you guys were pioneers of the new wave of British heavy metal which was kind of the beginning of kind of modern day heavy metal that we know this day so late 70s early 80s that time frame I thought you were going to say we were young.
It was a very long time ago. I was spilling water all over myself. It's okay it's my cruise. Yeah exactly it's not even it's not even vaude yet but so tell us about that when you guys first started what kind of bands were you listening to because you're very fast very almost thrashy at that time frame but how did it all kind of begin for you guys. We started we formed the band in 1974 so this is our 49th year as a band. So yeah we are old bastards but they were like oh yeah.
We were listening to the bands we really weren't there was kids then was slayed and sweet and Gary Glitter and all that stuff because that's what was on the television and on the radio and as we run into older people and our taste broadened we got into Led Zeppelin deep herbal black sour flower and went to see almost every band we possibly could because that was our education.
The one who instructional videos are YouTube or any of that we went and watched the bands and saw what was good and what was bad and try to learn from that. And went through drummers like toilet paper until we hit up with a guy called Rob Hunter in 1980 and started as a three piece and then we you know somehow looked into a recording contract and it just went baboon from there on in.
And Rudy obviously you were with quiet right very early on in the 70s but kind of talk about the I guess one that quiet right was almost kind of almost a slayed type of a glammy type band in the mid late 70s as well not exactly heavy metal per se.
Well actually Kevin hated slayed you could tell well this what happened Kevin was a photographer before he you know he became a singer in quiet riots so slayed happened to tour with every single band that will come through LA so here's like you know slayed opening up for yes or slayed opening up for humble pie and slayed and so he said I think this guy's enough times I'm sick of him you know. And I you know the other news is that you know we got to record.
Come and feel the noise you know and then mama we're crazy now after that but it wasn't really that he hated the band the way they sounded he just hated the fact that they got around a lot on tour they really tour America a lot you know.
Tell us how you left quiet right to go to Ozzy because you were gone for years Ozzy was basically your first major gig yeah it was yeah well what happened was that I joined quiet right in 1978 they're ready left the band to join Ozzy in 1979 then they recorded blizzard and die of a madman then they were they got Tommy Aldrich you know to start the 1981 American tour blizzard was and they were looking for.
For a bass player and Randy his reference was me he didn't know it really had he haven't played besides Kelly Garnie and I we were the only bass players he had play with in LA and they were looking for a bass player in LA so Randy kept telling them you know you should give.
And they call me and that's how it got the gig so and then PJ of course as we were talking about metal I want to talk about how big it got in the 80s for while PJ you kind of came at the end of the 80s with trickster when the scene was changing to not be as heavy as good more into the grungy type stuff so you guys were just at the very last wave of the big years of heavy metal.
We might take some of that blame we say I always say Nirvana and grunge took our flannels and hung us with them you're out I'll take that shirt but yeah where's grunge now yeah that's right really not on this cruise. They can hang in a metal passport. But talk about you guys Mark and John when you started making inroads when Raven became a band in England started getting some some growth then you start coming over to the States.
Yeah I mean you know we come from that time the late 70s punk rock was big in England so we're kind of used to being like not the flavor of the month if you know what I'm saying and then it was kind of weird we start playing in the US and like metal was taking off I guess all these different names for metal but they started calling hair metal especially in the on the west coast and so many bands popping up and being very successful so we were kind of like you know in between this kind of a lot of things.
You know in between this kind of underground and this more on a heavier side we can across over on a lot of different things it was kind of cool but it was a big eye open up when we first came to the States I mean we talk about we were kind of a little green I would say and we're traveling around doing stuff and we're first major tour of the States we took a little band called Metallica out is our open act.
Which was like four scrawny kids you know I mean where to drag them out of bed to make sure we got to the next gig I remember dragging Kirk hammer down the stairs and his head was bopping off the concrete stairs and you were like the same you had the Mickey Mouse shirt which you wore for the entire tour and was the stunt like it I don't know.
But yeah we got some crack crazy stories but there's like a constant turmoil of different styles of metal I get new metal you got you know this even like grunge was metal to a certain extent but there's only one true thing and that's good music it's not necessarily what style it is it's just going to be good right like this.
Now Rudy talk a little bit about touring with Ozzy what it was like it back at that time because this one Ozzy leaves Sabbath he's starting out solo kind of all the marbles the key really has to really make it big at this point in time it's like this is his last chance I think at this point to really you know stay in the game and get to the status that he's at now.
Yeah and there was so much county you know the record company was the same as the management company don't harden you probably heard of it. Yeah I'm not going to hang you a lot of wind and stuff. Yeah but she's the sopranos. Don't know what it was Tony soprano.
You can ask Harry more if you're so loud he would tell you some stories. Well done you know I mean I this is at a time when Sharon was just our manager you know or actually representing Don her dad on the road with us you know and Ozzy was married to a lady named Phoma. Some of the people asked me what does S.A.T.O. mean you know from the from the dollar every madman and and Ozzy told me is Sharon Adrian which is a guy that Sharon was going out with Phoma and Ozzy.
So these were simpler times you know Sharon was the manager Ozzy was the artist and we were the band and they the family the art and family they put a lot of money behind it because the the American label epic really did not know what to make of Ozzy you know but they really believed in him.
So they put the mortgage their mansion and put a lot of money behind you know jet record so it's the management and the record company and so they really believed in him and Sharon was there to make sure that Ozzy delivered. Yeah she's a fast boy. Alright get in on all the NFL action at Fan Duel America's number one sports book I just placed a couple bets for my wife Jessica you know she's a huge Minnesota Vikings fan so I picked the Vikings to win the NFC North great value for a top tier team.
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NJU had a gold record when you're still a teenager talk about starting off at the top Well yeah, getting this church their I mean I was 17 years old became liking We had our 16 when we signed with MCA records and my mother had the sign, the deal with me. And Steve's parents had the sign, co-sign the deal too, because he was only 17, I think. So yeah, we had a big following in Jersey in the under-hage circuit, you know, the good kind of under-hage circuit.
We were bringing all the young girls to the clubs, but we were young boys, so it was all good. So we somehow started a really good buzz just playing high schools and, you know, the old ages places, and we got a deal. And, you know, that was a time where things were happening fast. It was like, here we go. We have the wheel. Get on, and you're going. Off you go. We got a deal. We got put on tour. We got put on MTV, and off she went. So I mean, yeah, we were lucky.
You know, and as quick as we went up, we went down. So, and we were, we had good heads on our shoulders. We knew that, like, all right, we're spinning right now, but this thing's going to stop. So let's just have a good time while we're here. So we always kind of, although we were young and cocky, we were very realistic. I think that's just the Jersey and us, you know, keeping it real and grounded like, hey, we always used to say we're one bed song away from working on a 7-11.
And we scared the shit out of me. So kept me grounded, though, that's for sure. But yeah, and then the first record went cold. And it was surreal. I mean, it was something that I always envisioned. So as it was happening, it was just, it felt right. I'm like, well, here's my gold record. Thank you. Yeah. Cocky little shit. But that's how hyper focused we all were. You know, it was no, we did not work for it. We definitely meant everything that we did. And it was very organic.
And I think that's the thing that people related to Trickster in the sense that we were, we kind of bridged that gap between, you know, the hair metal and the grunge because we came out in flannel shirts and ripped jeans dirty white re-box. And, you know, that was just us. So, but we came out in the tail end of the hair metal thing. So we got lumped into that side. But I wouldn't change it for the world.
I mean, at that time, my life in particular, I couldn't have wanted anything more to happen than, right, I was so hungry for it. So when it came, I was just, I was all in. You know, I didn't have any bills, I didn't have any family. I was all in. So I mean, I think about it now, like, man, what if I was like 35 and that happened? I'm like, I got on a tour of us for 13 months right when we went on tours. Like, see you later, Adios.
Like, I don't know if it would have been that easy and enjoyable as it was. When I was 17, 18. So it was a good start. So and talking about tourbusters and Mark mentioned the tour with Metallica, you guys were in a tour of us for that at all. Were you traveling in? That was a six-birth winnebago and two box trucks. And after Cliff took number two in the winnebago and ripped the door off, we decided to travel most of the time in the back of the truck.
In everybody on that tour that we had the three trucks and the white truck when people went around and said, do you have the keys to the white truck? That usually meant someone who was going to get lucky and they were trying to get the, because it was a mattress in the back of the white truck. John? John? Do you have the keys to the white truck? Is that lost? Yes, lost, I do. And the funny thing is we just played with them recently and that story came up individually off all three of them.
Did they ask you for the keys? Yeah, the keys to the white truck. Still wanted the keys. Johnny, the keys to the truck, gotta go to the side of the truck, you got it. Rudy, let's talk a little bit about Randy Rhodes, obviously, one of the all-time great guitar players. One of the most influential to this day. What was it like playing with Randy? Because you had a great relationship with him. Yeah, he had a huge impact on me, something that I carried with me even today. Musical integrity.
He was born into a musical family. His mom and dad, music professors, they have, still the family has the Musonia, which is a music school in North Hollywood, California. And Randy was a musician, you know, sight-reading, playing classical, even before he joined at Rock Band. I said, kid, he was in a jazz band, and so his level of musical integrity was like nothing I ever experienced before. And I learned that. Then, once he joined Aussie, he just took it to a whole different level.
You know, his musical integrity went as far as actually quitting Aussie because the record company told Aussie, okay, you have to go in and record, speak of the devil, which is the black Sabbath re-recordings that we did at the Ritz and Randy refused to do it. Is this I'm not doing it? You have given you Blizzard of Oz and a giving you Diography Metman. I'm not going to also do it a cover apple, you know, black Sabbath songs. That's not what I want my career to be like.
So he gave notice that he was going to leave the band, you know, before he passed away. He really, yeah. I didn't know that. And that's one sad element into the mix of him passing that they were working it out, Aussie and Randy, but it was not finalized. Working out him leaving. Yeah. And that's something that Aussie has been dealing with ever since, you know, for the last 40, 40 plus years since Randy passed. How could that sound like about Randy?
We did Blizzard of Oz 2. I think we did like six shows in England, right John? Four. We did Newcastle, Sondland, Middlesprer and the Hammersmithordian. And he had memory. Oh, yeah. He knows I did go to him. Memorable shows. But Randy used to just play guitar all day. He would have a little amp and he would set up somewhere, like no, away from the dressing rooms, maybe in a hall somewhere and he'd just play. Very quiet guy, but he was very, I mean, he was locked in.
There was not, you know, I mean, he had a purpose and he was really locked into it. And I can't say enough about him. He was very nice to us, all of them people that we, when we two up with him back then. Yeah. And I would say for a guy that's such a brilliant guitar player, I did say him screw up I in man on one of the shows and that gave me a lot of hope. So that was it. What did he do? He screwed up. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Which of course, happened to us all.
He was very keen about playing the Black Sabbath songs. So he could check it out. You know, live, you know, when we were, we, yeah, we did a medley of Iron Man and Children of the Grave into paranoid. And he wasn't very keen about that. I would like to add to what you're saying. Yeah, I mean, I can't recall Randy not having a guitar with him, you know. And I'll go as far as when he got the new Best Guitar Player Award from Guitar Player magazine. And it was December 30th backstage of 1981.
Backstage at the Cow Palace, he received the award. And you know, back, you know, 40 years ago, we didn't have social media. You have no idea if anybody really cares about what you're doing. You just do it. You know, there was something he gets as a award and he realizes that people are listening and appreciating what he's doing. So now it's like a whole new level of commitment to what he's doing.
So from that point on, on the Diario Femadman tour, he started taking, you're signing up for lessons at every city we played at. We would get off the bus, breakfast time, you know, we'd drive all through the night from the last gig, show up to in the next town, get off the bus, go have breakfast and pull out the yellow pages.
And since his family has a music school, he figured, well, the school where the biggest ad or music store where the biggest ad, I'm going to go for that one because it just got to be the most successful one and they probably have the best teacher. And most of the time he would wind up teaching the teacher and paying for the lesson. Some racket. How important was Randy to Ozzy's success as a solo artist?
Well, I mean, if you listen to any Ozzy Osborne record after Randy passed away, that's the answer right there, you know. And Ozzy obviously knew that he was probably very much, Randy was probably his partner in a lot of different ways. Yes, Ozzy loved Randy. They were family, absolutely. So PJ, you mentioned as a teenager, gold record, but you also, one of your first tours, I believe, was with KISS? First tours were actually striped, Han Dockin, Scorpion's, KISS was later on the second record.
Okay, but the Scorpions as well. Tell us what it was like kind of going from, you know, the Parasipony New Jersey or the Helladish, going on tour with these arena bands and you're still a teenager. Yeah, it goes back to that initial thing where it was like we were ready for it. Every show we did, even before we got signed in our heads, it was the garden or the metal ends arena in New Jersey where we grew up. And you know, it all happened so fast. We went on tour.
It was like, okay, your record's done, it's coming out here, your videos out, get on the bus. Here's two weeks of headline and club shows. We got a week into that. They're like, turn the bus around, you're going out with Striper. And then right from there, we were right to Don Dockin, solo tour. And then right from there, we went to Poison. Those were our first arena shows. And I mean, I think it was a flesh and blood for Poison. So they were at their, you know, their zenith, if you will.
And so that was like, for us, it happened. It was like, we have dates, arenas, boom. And then that was a short tour. We only did like, not even two weeks with them. But before we even got on the road with them, we got the scorpions tour lined up right behind it. And then the last night of the Poison tour, Brett and C.C. call us into the dress room, they're like, come here, we have dinner with us.
They sit us down, we're in the dress room like, all right, like that steak, what's it going to take to make it blow off that scorpion store and stay with us? So we're like, come on, I mean, because that was a fun tour. And we knew we had our work cut out for us, going out with the scorpions, a band like Tricks, they're, you know, young, cute kids. You know, we knew what we were throwing ourselves into.
So Poison, we went out on stage, it was right off the bat, girl screaming, it was like taking candy from a baby. But scorpions, it was going to be a little bit tougher for us. But we were psyched for that. We were up for the challenge. And it was kind of tough to tell Brett, sorry, man, we got to go. But also we had, Poison was just finishing their tour. So they was kind of circling those tertiary, like third kind of markets.
As scorpions were doing New York LA, doing the whole thing, hometown arena. And it was like, I don't know, Brett, plant the metal ends. So we stuck to our guns and we did the scorpion tour. And as expected, you know, it wasn't the same reaction. It came out every night. You know, they were sitting, they were arms crossed, and they were, you know, waiting to be, you know, we had to earn it. And we loved it because we, we, the most part pretty, you know, we did. It was. It was a challenge.
I mean, yeah, the Poison tour was great. But like I said, it was, it was easy. It was so much fun because it was easy. But this was, again, it was a grounding, humbling moment. It kept us, you know, just not carried away. And it said, all right, look, every night, go back to zero. You know, these people, we got to prove it to them that we're not just some, you know, cute little fabricated band. So I think there was a really important tour for us, the scorpions. What's up?
It's me, Don Talibar. If I could describe the open air, but I would describe it to this very seamless, like you clipping on your ear, then sometimes you can forget it's there, but it's not going to work. It's like, clip is kind of crazy. If I could bring my music with me, whatever I go, it'd just make life easier and seamless without interruption to be able to have the music on hand like that without any interruption with it would be great. Check out boz.com for more.
There's a famous show, Mark and John, a levis at Rose Lamp, all room in New York, anthrax, Metallica, and Raven. And all three of you guys as a result of that night signed with major labels. Yeah. So kind of, what do you remember about that night? That was a crazy night. That was, I mean, at the time back then, me and Mark were married, Rob had a steady girl friend. They all came over to America and fired us that night. Say, we're done. You guys have been away for 18 months enough. See you.
You're gone. We're divorced and you're getting rid of you. So that kind of had us a little fired up. And then somebody stole one of Mark's guitars off stage three minutes before we went on. Yeah. I remember that. Wow. I tore a door off the wall because that was like the final straw. There was a lot of tours before that. I think we just finished tour with anthrax that opened up for us. And it was the same management who was unopened familiar with Johnny Z. And who are you?
Johnny at Marshall. Yeah, Johnny at Marshall. God rest the soul. Johnny just passed away recently and we did a tribute show with Metallica to Johnny Z in Marshall. They kind of took, I mean, they took all these bands into the house, like a little house in New Jersey and they made these bands into something. It was pretty special time. It was like bizarre. Like Johnny Z was like brilliant and crazy at the same time.
I remember he was up in the middle of the night making phone calls and he said, man, this is the best band in it. And then he was like, hey, hey, it's like four o'clock in the morning here. Can you call me tomorrow? What the hell's going on? He was just a nutcase, but he got shit done. And he was kind of in all three of the band's Raven Metallica and Thracs was very influential. And I remember that show that other bands didn't do so good.
They had bad night for whatever reason, sound or some technical problems. And it was a good show for us, but it was like everybody came out of the woodwork for that show. And like you said, these bands got signed. Now, one of the stories, the band, the company in the sign Metallica. The boss of Electra is called Bob Krasno. This is one of these apocryphal stories, which is probably not true, but it's pretty funny. So Krasno comes to the show and he's gone. Piss drunk.
He sees us and goes, oh, guys, fantastic. I want to sign them. Sign them. You know, Michael Lolo, who wants to sign Metallica, so brings Metallica to the offices the week later. And Krasno looks to them and goes, I thought there was only three of you. Pretty cool. Pretty cool. So we ended up with Atlantic, which is a whole story in itself. I mean, Atlantic was like a horrible place to be signed pretty much.
They didn't know what to do with a band from England that was kind of like underground heavy metal and, you know, a speed metal or whatever. They didn't understand it. That time, everything was changing real quick. So I think Metallica had the same problems with that label too that would be where with. And, you know, everybody went on, did pretty good, but it's just fantastic. That was all at one. Like, all went through one bottle neck if you want, you know. Yeah, it was unheard of.
It was like a 3,500 sheet venue in Manhattan with three unsame bands and it was completely sold out. That never harmed. Yeah. You guys get together like, hey, that's it. Come on. Rocket Science and aid. It never happens. Let's talk about Quiet Ride when you return after Randy passes and you left Ozzy because you told me before you couldn't play in that band without Randy. Yeah, I lost the joy of playing.
You know, I was just basically surviving each show and one of the things that I learned about Randy that, you know, he was going through that, you know, musical integrity. You have to make a decision if you're in that place with what you're doing. You have to move on and find what really is in your heart. And I was getting ready to go to New York to record the Speak of the Devil record, live by the Ritz. At this time we have Brad Gillis on the guitar and tell me how it was going to force Ozzy.
And I got a call from Kevin to Bro. Now I used to, when Randy left, Quiet Ride, Kevin put together a band called Dubro and so many people went through it, including myself. I was playing with him into bro right before I joined Ozzy. I was living with Kevin. So one of the songs that we used to play live was Thunderbird, which he wrote for Randy, when he left Quiet Ride. So he closed me up and said, hey man, you know, we're in the studio and there's a possible record deal here.
Well, how would you like to come down and just, you know, guest on Thunderbird? And I go, yeah, sure, I'll come down. And as a matter of fact, my gear was on the way to New York. So I brought my practice base. It was a base synthesizer, rolling. Oh, look, 40-year-old technology. I used to have that. Yeah. And it was sounding really good for Thunderbird, you know, had a chorusing effect. And I thought I was just going to play in one song.
So there is Frankie, who I had started playing with 10 years before. I met him on my birthday in 1972, November 18th, and we started playing immediately. And so we had been struggling. We left Florida about the same time, we moved to Chicago area. We started playing all the bars around the Midwest, wind up in LA. We lived together. We started together and, you know, we had this history of trying to survive. And finally, we are in the studio together recording a song.
We didn't know what was going to happen with it, but, you know, this is it. And then there's Kevin, who I already played with him and Quiet Ride and lived with him and played with him into Brown. And Carlos, who I had never met before, Carlos Cabazo, but he was part of the circuit, you know, in LA. And so we, we, in two passes, we did Thunderbird. So they go, well, we got a few hours left on the session. Do you remember it's like Black Catacombs?
That's the only song from the Randy Rose era that made it to the Metal Health record. And if you look at the back of the record, it says dedicated to the memory of Randy Rose from the very first pressing, you know, so that was what the whole thing was about.
So it felt good, you know, to be back with my family again, you know, Frankie and Kevin and so, you know, we got, by the time I left that session, I must have done like at least four songs for the, for the what became known as the Metal Health Record. The band was still called DuPro. I was just guessing on it, you know. And then I went over to New York, recorded Speak of the Devil, but I'm still lingering how good it felt to, to be playing with Frankie and Kevin.
So I came back to LA and made the toughest decision I ever made, which was to leave Aussie, because they took great care of me. They were wonderful to me, but I needed to get the joy of playing again. And there was no guarantee. There was any guarantee that, you know, because it was a production deal. So I came back and then they finalized the deal with Epic and we signed in 40 years later who we are. It came out 40 years ago. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Right there. And quiet riot just blew up huge.
After Metal Health Record. Oh man. We were on a tour of us for a year and a half. Opening up for Scorpions, then we followed that followed by the US Festival and then we went with ZZ Top, Lover Boy. We got kicked off the lower boy tour. Yeah, we did. It's like a bridge. We had to go on it. So we got kicked off and then our agency scrambled to put together us as a headliner. Now the problem is you only have one record.
You got 40 minutes of music and you're headlining, but then, you know, we had a quince rike. That was there. There were under Queen of the Reich, EP. That's what we started doing with them. And another band I think it was Axel Kick Axel. It was Kick Confused with Axel. It was a Kick Axel. There you go. And so we did that for like six weeks. We, there was a one show in particular. I had just played the Marcus Quarrer Arena in Indianapolis the year before with Ozzy.
And I knew what a massive venue was. So the agency goes, oh, yeah, we just booked you guys there and you go, are you crazy? It's like 20,000 people and they go, that's okay. We're going to put a curtain. And we're going to sell the first few thousand seats. The curtain kept moving. By the time we did the gig, actually with Nazareth opening up, we sold in the round.
Wow. I was just amazing, you know, but that was the kind of role that we were on thanks to MTV, which is the reason why in our opening intro before we go on, we played just a little bit of the MTV theme song. I said, thank you. Why did you get kicked off the lover boy tour? I'm sorry? Why did you get kicked off the lover boy tour? Frank? To work, Frankie and Kevin. Last three months. They were on a roll until right? What's the easiest choice you can make? Window instead of middle seat?
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Definitely for Steven myself, that was like the dream opening for kiss. I mean, anybody I know had that dream. It's a circle I keep. I remember the day getting that call that we were going to tour with Kiss. We were in LA about to mix our second record and our manager called and said we got the kiss tour. Again, we're going back to the mental answer arena playing all these arenas that we did the year before. But this time, I mean, we love scorpions growing up scorpions.
It was amazing, but kiss was the, that was it for us, you know. So that was a moment. And I never forget walking into the arena that first day and just seeing all the kiss road cases like we're here and you know, you fall right back into that little kid, that little seven or eight year old kid, you know, when you're drawn on your face and drawn on your notebook and writing the kiss logo on everything you owned and didn't know. And it was just amazing, you know, hanging out with those guys.
Some not so much. Some of them. Hey. Hey. But yeah, it was great. It was the extent of his experiences with Paul Stanley backstage. Yeah, I think I got, I think I got a hey twice. Three months. So I'm happy with that. But it was a dream come true. John and Mark as well, you guys mentioned signing with Atlantica. It was interesting as a Raven fan because I got into Raven with live at the Inferno and all for one. And then Stay Hard comes out, which is still an amazing title for a record.
Stay hard. Stay wet. Stay hungry. Words to live by. But it's a real wrestling. But Atlantica, they had a little bit of a change for you guys. You guys had ranked eyeliner. It was kind of almost like a little bit more of a corporate type Raven. How was that for you guys signing with the big leagues and then they've kind of changing you a bit?
Well, actually the back cover of that record, that's all airbrushed because whatever crude attempts it make up we were using was more like a footballer with a black eyes. We used to put the black, you know, like the football players, we used to put that on. We did not put eyeliner on. I mean, even the point where they had a helmet and it's typed, Waco. Is it? Is there a drummer Waco in the dress? The worst Photoshop of all time. The record was actually done before we got signed.
It's just that we had some shitty songs and we took them off because initially the record was going to be to get off the indie label we were on in England. It was supposed to be a throwaway record. Yeah, literally. And we said, oops, Atlantic one is, let's ditch these four songs and put the good ones back in.
But the next record was very much a pressure from the record company, the management who were leaning on the producer Eddie Kramer and it was just like, do another track of guitar here but do a little cleaner and we'll just put it in the mix and you got to remember we were like starving and then we signed to this major label and then we're paying this guy 40 grand, we're paying this studio of $30,000 or whatever and then we're walking to the store because we didn't have a car.
It was like, it was the craziest shit ever and we finally went, what the f**k? I mean, we at least get us a car or something we can get to somewhere. We were like held captive by the label, a lot of you guys experienced this kind of thing. It's almost like you have to go to them to get anything. And very hard, we were trying to keep to our guns and I think we did that to a certain extent.
There was some stuff we put out that was a little kind of commercial but we've always had melodies in our songs. We're not trying to change but we're just going to go out and kick ass anyway, we don't care. And our showers, our live shows were always good, always good, not crazy, same shit and still is but it was just a weird time. I just remember thinking, we're really doing good but I don't have a penny to my name. This is bizarre. I don't have any clothes.
I got everything I got to one case and we were totally, you were saying we were totally in, we were completely locked into it and I think just the Atlantic was just a crazy place. I remember seeing Peter Frampton in the hallway and he looked totally pissed off and I said Robert talked to him and I said what did he say? He goes, he's trying to get out of his deal. I mean they don't even know what to do with him.
He is a guy from the 70's that was really popular and he's now on his label and we found out much later, all the people from the label were on drugs and completely fucked up but it was crazy. It was like we joined like the mad hat as Tea Party, it was just insane. The record company seems in a spinal tap, absolutely outlandic records, publicist Bobby Fleckman, absolutely. But she was a lot smarter, she knew what was going on, these other people were like, oh yes, it's so good to meet you.
So they made us wear the studded dog collar and the red nose and the clown shoes. Do you know, do a more commercial album and then say you want to do a video? No, no video. So it kind of cultures interrupt us and we just said to hell we regrouped, we did an AP which was a lot more in our hearts, you know, more what we were supposed to be doing and the following album was even way heavier and they didn't know what to do with us. So after that we just agreed to part and get the hell over them.
I mean we just found out the music business is just bullshit. We brought a hang out with you. We're hanging with him in the Yitz. He's got the truth. Absolutely. Did you ever experience anything like that in any of your bands Rudy with kind of record companies being bullshit? Yeah. Yeah. But you know, like let's say in the case of Ozzy, the management and the label was the same thing. So you can't get away from it.
It jet records and jet management and I think the agency had something to do with Don, you know, and it was like, okay, there's no place to go. This is it. With Quiet Riot, it was a big team. We had a separate agency. We had to beg the guy who became our manager who was a former musician Warren Edner. He was a guitar player with the grassroots and he was one of the original Quiet Riot, Randy Rose, era manager.
He had retired and we took him to the 1983 NAMM show just to show him that guys with long hair, you know, not new wave, not punk, were still around. And there was like, oh, you mean there's interest in your type of music. And we say, yes, and this is where the record already mastered, ready to be released. So we begged them and he became our manager and there you go.
How was it for you, PJ, talking about record companies when you mentioned the first record is gold and then suddenly you're making your second record and that's when you, like you said, they are taking the flannel and basically hanging you with it. Did you see a difference in attitude from the record company? Yeah, I mean, we saw the righty on the wall right away.
We checked the forecast, we're going out on tour with KISS or hang on guys and literally our record came out the first, maybe the first day of that tour. And we were really excited. It made this great record that we thought, you know, and going on tour with KISS, we are flying high and we would go to radio for the first single.
And you know, we were kind of obsessed with how many ads we get, how many ads it would be, how many radio station ads did we, you know, acquire this week, you know, we get 30 to 40, what do we get? And every day the reports weren't good. It was, it happened so quick, they were like, well, none. Everyone was just changing their formats because the Grunge Cloud was coming in. And so we're so happy to be on tour with KISS but getting bad news every single day.
And the label, you know, I mean, yeah, the label's attitude clearly changed because we were dropped, you know, inside of a year after that record came out. And you know, we didn't really fight it either. We were just like, again, this much smarts we had but it kept us grounded and prepared. We didn't go kick in and scream. We were like, we get it, you know, we had a great time and there's the writings on the wall. So it's just time. Let's try to keep our heads together and stay productive.
You know, but as far as the label, they dropped us right before we were going to Japan for the first time. That's right. That's right. Well said. But I will give them this. We were so psyched to go to Japan and they still let us go to Japan paid for that, which is not cheap. So we did great in Japan. Such a bummer, right? Do you want to drop us now? Did they pay it to bring you back? What was the biggest tour you guys did in the States?
Did you go, I can't remember if you went out or who you went out with. We did six dates with Judas Priest. Oh, the turbo tour. Yeah, that was pretty much the thing. That was that was that goes back to the same thing. You know, there was back in the end days, there was a huge emphasis on radio, which doesn't really exist anymore. You had to have so many. So many ads or stations to be the certain level.
That's how you would get you would be able to get on tours like some of these open in tours and stuff like these bigger bands, KISS, whatever. And I remember that we were, you know, in a lot of these labels, they can make shit happen because it's all, they're all about money. They're not about music at all. It was all about making money. So for instance, we were, I think we were at like 20 stations and we needed to be at 25 to continue the tour. So we basically told them flat.
We had a meeting with one of the local representatives. I think it was in the Southwest. And we said, we need to be at 25, you know, radio or playlist. So the way is we're going to get dropped up this tour. And then we were playing with priests. And that was one of our favorite bands at the time. And the tour was very successful. We were doing very good on the tour. And they loved us that gave us a card of lunch. They gave us flowers. We had like orchids in our dressing room. We're like, hell.
It was kind of bizarre. And then they were like, this is, this is some, you know, English beer like you're like, you know, I'm in some way, what? Anyway, along the shore, Atlantic didn't come up with the stuff. They didn't know what to do with us, basically. So I think we got stiffed a little bit on that. We didn't do the rest of that tour. But that was our biggest tour. We played like a lot of the big venues and sold out, sold palace and places like that. And did very good on it.
But that whole business, I think, has completely changed. Now, it really kind of got picked up and thrown down and trashed. I don't, I'm basically most of them labels aren't really the shadow of the former self, which I'm kind of happy about telling the truth. One of the main issues was when we sang with our Atlantic and say, hey, great, big, great economy. We want the best agency. And we sang with an agency called Premier Talent, the main guy, Frank Barcelona, you know, did the who? Journey.
And no other heavy metal barns. I mean, they had Judas Priest. That's how we got Judas Priest. ICM, I believe it was, was the main agency. And they were pissed off that we hadn't signed with them. Therefore, they wouldn't let us open for any of the bans. So we had to leave Premier Talent and go carbon-hound at ICM, which is how we did the last tour on the Atlantic record, which is with Wasp and Slayer. And, you know, let's take this spinal tough thing.
You got Wasp and Slayer and we're in the middle like Luke Warmwater or what else. It was a really weird. It was an extremely weird tour. They were like throwing stuff at Wasp, the kids and then they weren't sure about us. It was just a bizarre kind of thing. We come on, we had the song called Lua Velude, which is a break, like a minute in. And it got a little, little, little, little, little. And we throw the guitar down and our claim over the barrier and stand on the barrier. All right.
I'll take everyone, your mother f**king son, one in a time, your bastards. We spent the whole tour fight with the audience. It was f**king awesome. And they'd back off because before that, during the minute, it was nine-volt barries and glasses and... Oh, it was great. From the specky little 14-year-old, trotch. You know? You know, Slayer were kind of blown up at the time. And Wasp had this really kind of string show where they had like confetti bombs at the end. It was really kind of odd.
Like Buzzbeat Berkeley or something. I don't know. It was kind of odd. I saw that tour. I think it was a one-off. Did you guys do a one-off with them? No, we know the whole thing. It was the live from the electric shirt. The show they had. Yeah. The four 12s with animal skin, then they had like a little fence round them. Like they wore in zoo cages. Yeah. It was just... I don't know. There was a place called the Capitol Theater in Psegy, New Jersey that... Yes. Yes. Yeah. I was there.
I saw Rudy there too. I'm gonna tell him your story, my brother. I will. So this is place... When I was 12, 11, 12 years old, I would tell my mother, I would sleep in over Joey's house. And Joey would tell his mother, he'd sleep in over PJ's house. And we'd take two buses into a shitty part of town, Psegy, and sleep outside the Capitol Theater in Psegy, New Jersey overnight. Like, I got kids now. I'm like, what? What? Holy shit. I think the music business has changed.
So, and we got our wasp tickets and Raven opened. And I don't think Slayer was on the bill. I think it was just wasp headlining. Yeah. And that was amazing. It was a... Amazing show. But that was like my go-to place and I saw Quiet Riot. And I think it was December 94. And I had pictures I brought with me. Actually, I found my photo albums. I'm like, oh my god, look at this. This is a great podcast for me. I'm loving this. And I was, I think, 12 years old. And I always used to have this thing.
Lights go down. Boom. I'm right the front row. I'm crawling under seats. See you later. No one's stopping us. 12 year old. A little squid. You know, I'm like, excuse me. I'm looking for my dad. You know, I was by myself. So I'm crawling under seats, you know, in and out of, you know, butts and elbows in my face. And I find my way front row all the time. So now I find myself. I'm actually kneeling on the subwoofers, right, front of Rudy. And we're rocking out. And, you know, I'm a kid.
So I have gumballs, right? And I'm gumballs. Rudy comes down right in front of me. He's playing, doing this. Right. And I'm like, I'm like, he's like, I'm like, watch. It's not drugs. Watch. And I ate one and he goes, okay, I took a gumball. And I put a gumball in his mouth. I shit you now. I'm like, it's my gumball. I'm like, capital theater, but say New Jersey. That was a win for me. It's not drugs. So I'm going to give you a gumball tomorrow.
Did you ever have an accepting gumballs from kids back then, Rudy? No, but, you know, it's, I'm a fan too, you know. So I get it. You know, I geek out myself and, you know, John V has a story. I used to play with Johnny when he was 19 years old before he had a number attached to his name. Before the father. Yeah. Yeah. John Larry is his, you know, birth name. And we had a band called Sun King. We got signed to, to, to, giant records.
So I will, Erwin Azov and all of that, and then Grunn champion. So I know what you're talking about. Okay. So Johnny tells me, you know what, that time that you played at Joe Luiz Arena, you gave me your bandina and he still had it. Of course he still has it. Rudy, you played with so many great bands and, and, um, White Snake, obviously was, was, was a great one.
It's interesting because Ozzy was kind of more street and quiet riot was kind of a, a street look than you're in White Snake and now you've got blonde hair and you've got puffy shirts and like, kind of what was that like playing with, with, with another legend with David Coverdale. What, what, what kind of his rules to play with him? Well, I, you know, White Snake was the opening band for choir writer in 1984.
Yeah. Originally Tommy and I, we were asked in 1985 to join the band, but I knew about the friction going on, especially between, you know, everybody knows about this. John Sykes and Coverdale, right? Yeah. John Sykes was still there and I'm going, I just left a situation, I don't want to join another situation.
So I'm, I'm going to pass on this, you know, a couple of years later, John was gone and we got the call from John Colatner for Tommy and I to go in and we, and do the video for still the night. And by then, you know, we have been looking Tommy and I for, for a singer of that caliber of Coverdale, you know, and so we went in to do the video and there was Adrian and, and Vivian Campbell and we got along great and we decided right there. Yes, let's do this.
Adrian already had played on, here I go again. So he was committed, but not the rest of us and that, and that's when we became a band. As far as my blonde hair, I was bored. I started putting sun in. That's what it was. And still the night is sun in. Okay. If you look at the still the night video, we, we kind of look more street than we do in here ago again because there was a, there is a stylist and designer named Flare, you know, Flare.
Okay. And she came to my house and she did the same thing with the other guys. You know, they went to their hotels and their homes, went through the suitcase, she went through my closet and say, okay, bring this stuff here. And that was my outfit, whatever she found in the closet, there was going to be a cohesive look with the other guys. By the time that we did here, I go again and, and it's his love back to back.
We're like one day one and then the following day the other one with Marty Colner, we were already a band and she had designed all these outfits for me. You know, and for everybody else in the band, that's why there was a certain look. Yeah. And here I go again, but, but still the night is really street. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like an all-star band almost at that point in time, like a super group.
It was just a bunch of guys that we were veterans of other situations and we were really grateful to be playing together, you know, great band. We know a lot of the same people, John Sykes. Me and John Sykes is to hang out back in England. He was joined a band called Tiger's a Pang Tang and was like that second album, like a reboot of the band. And he was like a high-end, really good guitar player and everything. Nice guy, so we headed off, so we used to go out drinking together.
But the guy was like out of his mind. I mean, he'd go over and this is, I've known it was so much in the States, but in England he would go up and just drink other people's drinks. He was like, what the fuck, you can't do that. We're going to get killed. And I'd drug him out of so many bars like by his neck and like other guys trying to kill him. I mean, it was like, then he would call me up and go, hey, you want to go, I've got something I've got to do, sorry. My John Sykes story.
Last few things, guys. The playing is a trio, you mentioned. How is that, like, obviously most bands have two guitars, there's a five pieces, four pieces. Is it more challenging as a three piece playing heavy metal? Yeah, more challenging but more rewarding. There's a most real estate to work with, but there's no safety net. You would two guitar bands, you know, somebody breaks a string, you know, the guy stops playing. And if you notice, it always sounds better.
But we took, it was slayer, you know, the guy would bring us over to the monitor board. He was, okay, he's carrying. And he was Jeff. Here's Kerry and Jeff. And then one of them would break a string, it would sound amazing. And then fix it. So that was like validation of what we'd done. Once we came there with three piece, Mark's playing Blossom like a thousand percent in a week.
And I was like, oh, I can do all these fills and rob a original drum about them and say, oh, I can do all these fills. And, you know, drummers and bass players have to have that locked in ASP thing. Like we've got with Mike. I mean, it's, you know, it's something you can't teach, it's something you can't force. It's able there or it's not. I like the, just having the one guitar that drums the bass separate.
You know, it's kind of like you guys and you have the singer, but it's like the who, you know what I mean? It just has a certain power to it. I can't really describe it. And I still love two guitar bands, and Lizzie, Judas Priest Fawzi. Yeah. For Cass. Yeah. And that's still good. It's just a little, it's going to, you have to be really, you know, conscious to pull that off good, you know what I mean? That's why they call it a power trio. Yeah. It's right. Power trio.
So, you know, and it goes back to the early days, cream and bands like that. So, we'd kind of love it. And we have fun with it. We like it. So, yeah. Rudy, you mentioned the ASP festival just quickly. What was that like with 350,000 people? What was the like with a day? By then I already have been playing with ASI. So we've done some, some festivals. Port Vale being one of them. They're on the green. I know the one at the Oakland Stadium. So, you know, I have been there. Not 350,000.
But to be honest with you, the first, you know, the first 200,000, he really doesn't matter. It's been a million people. It didn't matter, you know. So it was like, okay, been here, done that. What happened was that we had just, okay, how we got the ASP festival was because we have been touring with Scorpions and we shared the same agency. So, you know, yeah.
And so they were doing a warm up tour, like a couple of weeks leading up to the ASP festival because they have been in the studio recording. So our agency put us on that tour and we did a win-up, AGO, bit. You know, that was our first tour after the record came out. And so we are the final day of that tour. Scorpion and us were playing Denver. Now, Barry Faye, the promoter, you know, Faye line in Denver was also responsible for the roster of the ASP festival.
So he was, you know, he, that was his gig. He sees us. We get off the stage. He comes into our dressing room and says, hey guys, I'm Barry Faye, I'm the promoter. I'm also, you know, I'm doing the ASP festival and I go, what's that? Because I have been on the road. I have, you know, I wasn't paying attention. And he goes, well, it's the show that we're doing with all these people.
And he says, if we just move Joe Walsh from the metal day to the pop day and we have an opening, do you guys want to do it? And we said, yes, right there in the spot. And then we have to figure out how we're going to do logistics because our gear had to go to the following gig after the ASP festival. And we didn't have a crew. They drove and trucked like, you know, you old back in the day. You brought everything with you. And so they went through the next city.
We had our tour manager and our manager who knew nothing really about setting up being roadies, you know. So they became our roadies and everybody was freaking out because there's 350,000 people out there and they were going stage and compact with their hearts beating so really fast. And it's the last thing you want to hear from your guys is like, oh my god, look at all the people out there. You know, you just want to be cool and do your show. So we had to rent gear.
Everything that happened, what happened was we were at last minute edition so all the good gear from SIR, which 40 years ago, that was the only thing that was available to rent from, it was gone. So we had to call friends around. I called the guy who I knew had a back line and anyways, that back line, base back line shows up, it doesn't work. Fortunately, TASCO was doing the monitors and that's where I grew from Aussie.
So I knew all the guys and they said, don't worry mate, I'll take care of you. So my base actually went through the monitor system and I'm talking about huge towers of, you know, and wedges. So that was okay, but it didn't sound like an amp. It just sounded like me plugging into Rick and two monitors. I was like, you know what, I deal with it. I just went on.
And so back in the 40 years ago, technology was such that our tuner had a, it was like a tuning fork like, boo, and you could go, boo, and Kevin had a frequency that resonated with him. It happened to be 432. Now we have no idea back then, you know, anything about 432. All I know is that like, yeah, Kevin said, that's the frequency. So we'll tune to that. So we have twin tuners, one carls aside, one on my side.
So we tune and I told my tour manager who was playing Rody that day, he says, okay, be careful, don't knock. This knob off. You know, just put it behind my amp. I'll tune it myself during carls guitar solo, which after the solo, you have come and feel the noise and bang your head. Okay. So here comes the guitar solo I go back. The thing is just the calibration, it's completely to one side, I'm going to go, okay, I think it's around here somewhere. Okay. So I knew I was out of tune.
This is like in summer time in California and it was like, you know, 150 degrees out there, you know. So I had to tune anyway. So okay, I tune my bass and I come back out. And if you guys listen to this on YouTube, I'm completely out of tune. I mean, tune with myself, but now we've called it. And it's like this cursing effect that you hear. I have no idea how Kevin was able to sing those two songs. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what happened.
Now Chris, you coming up, you must have seen the Us Festival footage the metal day, right? Yeah. What was your take on that? Well, we were, I was just a kid. It was probably 13 or just seeing the size of it. And the thing that bothered me is I wanted to watch the whole thing because they showed the only show that a couple songs. But then there used to be this place in Japan called Ares, which was a bootleg. Yes. Yes. And they had everybody's full set.
So I got, and now choir rights released that. Yeah. And I had pre-stied triumph scorpions of Van Halen. Scorpions stole the show that. Yeah. They killed Van Halen. They did. Yeah. So last question for you guys, PJ, for all you guys, what's your favorite song to play live from all the songs that you've had? Did PJ for Trickster? Um, I mean, I'll go with the obvious. And give it to me good was our first single and our biggest single. And it did it all for us. So it just makes the place happy.
Makes us happy. Yeah. John? How about you, John? Well, we really like all the shit we do. But, uh, I think we really enjoyed playing Fossil. Fossil and the speed of life is especially now that makes with us because it's really as fast as the speed of life. It's a dream. Mark, I would have to agree. You know, I like the heavy stock, but that, I just, for some reason, that song is a weird song, and I just love playing it live. So I would have to agree, actually. Rudy, I mean.
Okay. I, you know, one of those guys that I look at the, I dissent as one continuous song. And, but I think the one that really resonates the most with the audience is Metal Hell. And I get to play upside down. So. Well, guys, thank you so much for joining us. That was a blast. Thank you, guys. You are. You are. You are. Oh. Yeah.