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Unless you have HubSpot's AI-powered marketing tools to help you do all that and more. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. All right, welcome to talk is Jericho. It is the part of Thunder and Rock and Roll and home of the patented and highly anticipated Duff McKayga joke of the week. Chris Jericho, Duff McKayga, and Columbia. Hey, dude, you here at the CEO of IKEA just came prime minister of Sweden. Yeah, I've been taking a couple of months to put together this cabinet.
Thank you. Goodbye. Another Duff McKayga classic. Thank you, Duff for making us laugh every single Friday. And thanks to the one of baggers for bringing us the funny every Thursday, 9 p.m. Eastern on my Facebook page and YouTube channel. This week we're talking about bad album covers. There truly are some really funny ones. Wait, do you see some of these ridiculous covers, some lesser known bands, even some big A-listers like Iron Maiden and Anthrax.
So we go through a lot of these bad album covers and somebody gets off the band list, which is very exciting. So come hang with ribo, spewie and I the winner.
So every Thursday at 9 p.m. Eastern on my Facebook page and YouTube channel. All right, today speaking of album covers, I got the man who started a heavy metal movement in the 80s. A movement that started in the aisles of his rock and roll heaven record store in New Jersey. Talking about Johnny's Azula, the man who founded and launched mega force records, the man who signed Metallica released their first record kill them all.
They gave anthrax their big break instrumental in the careers of so many bands, including mine. That's right. Johnny's the guy who signed Fuzzy back in 1999. We were the last band Johnny's Azula ever signed to mega force records.
Johnny's telling his story and the story of mega force from his early days running his record shop to meeting Metallica and bringing them to the East Coast for the first time, being pursued and wooed by anthrax, having venom and animal play shows in America for the first time.
Thanks to him, a major label signing his bands, partnering and working with the majors like Atlantic talks with the bands he signed that should have been bigger and feels like Raven King's X. Why he thinks they never caught on. He also talks about the making of kill them all his friendship with bassist Clif Burton and what happened when electric came in inside Metallica away.
Johnny's got some amazing heavy metal stories with the history of the movement and is still an avid metal fan today. So let's go a pioneer of the heavy metal scene and the founder of mega force records. Johnny's Azula starts now on Talk is Jericho. One of the true legends of the early days of heavy metal, Johnny's Azula. It's been a long time coming that we had this chat.
There's so much for us to discuss. First of all, I just wanted to give condolences and say sadly we lost Marsha this year. I was just kind of brought me back to when we worked together 20 odd years ago. What a great lady she was as you know. Your partner in so much of all these things that you created. Well, it's kind of weird right now besides the fact that I've lost a partner of 42 years and what a partner she was. What a lady she was.
Yeah. She was one half of everything. Chris. So I'm having conversations with people over the last two months and I don't know half the answers. You know, who was that singer for the beer brains that turned everybody on to the word mosh it up. You know, and I'm thinking who who is that? How could I not know right from us? We went Johnny. Yeah, it's a sadness for that and many other things. Thanks for bringing a repress. Yeah, man. Like I said, that's kind of what got me thinking about you again.
After all these years and obviously super tight with Scott and Charlie from anthrax and you know with with Lars and everybody. So when Marsha passed, I went and read your book. Heavy tales and just kind of became reacquainted with all the all the things that you did. But one of the funny thing is that we can talk about right off the bat. And I didn't realize it until I read about your book is that you actually one of the last bands you signed was my band Fuzzy. Fuzzy.
Which is so funny because the way it started. No, if you know, now we're like a bona fide radio band. We have five top 30 singles in the last few years and three top tens and one of our singles is about to go gold. So you're the one who actually started all this way back when we were just doing covers. Well, they said I have 60 million dollar years. I guess Fuzzy was the apex of my career.
I got to tell you something Chris. I don't know what kind of language you could use on the show. So I won't go crazy. You can whatever you want. The biggest pile of you know what that Fuzzy story when you was starting that band. Right. You got lost in Japan and all the bands came over and was stealing your material and they were coming back with your material. Yeah, too much words. I said this guy's never going to pull this thing off man.
It's funny though because we actually did it for a couple years. But you guys we made a documentary about it about the band a mockumentary. And they played that thing on MTV over and over and over again. Like when back when that came out, Aussie and Zach wild were watching that on their tour bus Aussie loves that can video. And you guys were in it to comment on everything. It was just like you said, just a total complete comedic crazy thing. And here we are still 20 years later still doing it.
Well, a different thing. But you are very, very relevant, my friend. Very relevant. Could I say to the I of all the podcast I listen to the other day. I listen to the believe it not to be molenco. All right. And you know that touched me very, very much because I right now can't walk. Oh, you may not know that I didn't know that I'm getting around on a walker and I'm taking treatments that I'm fighting it just like me. I'm not shaking yet or anything. I don't have pockets as I have a form of MS.
Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, but I'm still groovy and cool and everything is wonderful. I can't get up and run. My only problem is wondering about where how do I get to the bathroom when I fly to Hawaii, you know. That's like my big thing. What do I do when I go to a restaurant? You know, as there's been something you've been dealing with for a few years?
No, basically I thought it was a bad back. And then it turned out that I went to a neurologist and another neurologist and another neurologist. And they all told me I had the same thing. I've been going for treatments now for four months. It's all no. And is it something that you're able to deal with when you get these treatments? Is it helping?
Yeah, I don't know yet. Right. I don't know yet. You know, it's all too young. It's all too early. My big thing now is I want to exercise and do it that way. And come back that way as well. Because this makes you not want to do any exercise. You get so tired and so lazy and so nothing. So I didn't want to dwell on that. But it really affected me how Dean was hanging in there. Also all the great things I learned about Dean that I didn't know about Dean. I didn't know about Japan and all that.
Right. Right. Well, yeah, he'd been doing it for so long before even got to the States. But I mean, that's one thing that's cool about doing the kind of the long form podcast. And we're going to do it right now to kind of talk about the entire history. And I appreciate you letting us know about your health situation. Because a lot of times people don't want to talk about that. You know what I mean? But it's important because we all have our issues that it's good to kind of get out in the open.
And being that shit crazy. You got two things, you know. Let's take a couple steps back. And because you and I've never never talked about this kind of in detail about how what I mentioned earlier, you've got the big kill them all poster on your wall. You were the guy that that, you know, not only signed Fuzzy, but you signed Metallica and anthrax and overkill and brought Ann Vell over from Canada and Raven. And you really did start a whole movement for heavy metal back in the early 80s.
How does that seem to you now in 2021 when heavy metal is such a staple of every radio station and every sports game and seek any straw, they'll play it at the fricking, you know, Tampa Bay box game in between plays. And you kind of were the guy that that capitalized on this and thought this music could be mainstream. And here you are 40 years later and you were right. It's one of those popular types of music ever.
Well, that's the whole key I was right. I really believed it then. You know, I saw Metallica headlining at Woodstock. I saw Metallica at the Isle of White. I saw Metallica at Mass and Square Garden. But I saw anthrax also achieving. I saw bands like Testament achieving overkill achieving. Some of the bands didn't make it. Some of the bands did make it. I signed a band that I thought should be the biggest band there ever was. Well, actually was Marsha signing Kings X.
Wow. What a signing that was. And, you know, we sold 200,000 records of one record in my ring. And we were told what a failure we had. I told you 2000 records and a number two record in the country on radio. And I was told how I have to step it up. So that's the world that we lived in. And today I look back. If that's the question, I'm in total disbelief. Chris. Now I believe there was all going to happen. But I find it very hard to believe it was make.
You were the conduit in a lot of ways. What did you see in that type of music? I guess most specifically. Well, you did stuff before Metallica. Let's just say Metallica in general. What did you see in this band that you thought could cross over into the mainstream? Well, the first thing you have to say is the band was fresh. They were non-clissé. They were heavy as hell. Right.
And I wanted to use it as I predicted this music to come and take over the world as it is done today is because I believe that heavy metal music is foreground music. There's a big difference between foreground music, which causes an action and makes you respond and background music. Well, who could give a who to buy? It's just doing its purpose and calming you down. I don't want to become. I want to be like this all the time.
But heavy metal is the epitome of a foreground music that responds in action. And when it's really, really good, it's going to respond to very good reaction. And we came to the world very, very good heavy metal from the beginning from the very beginning with Amphol. That was amazing stuff that metal on metal album agreed.
I don't know if people appreciate what was on that album. And the first four Raven albums were absolutely unbelievable. And what's funny, not funny, but real serious, is that the new Raven album, Metal City, stands up to everything great. There's a song on it that is started to gates unbelievable. Now people think I'm not listening right now. They're out of their mind because I'm listening to everything.
You know, and I have my favorites now and I have I'm still in it. So if anybody asked me what's relevant, which don't ask me right now because I'm having a mind fog. I'm prepared usually. So when you talk about Anvil, like when you guys had your record store rock and roll heaven in the flea market, and were you bringing like a band like Anvil down to come play the flea market, or would you kind of book them for shows or out of that whole scene start for you.
Well, the whole thing started at the rock and roll heaven store where someone came up to me, Ray Dill, he had an old bridge militia, by the way. And Ray was very influential on me back then. And he said to me, Johnny, you know, you're bringing in all these albums. You think you can bring a band and I go, where am I going to play a band? What am I going to do? I know nothing about this stuff. And he goes right here in the back of the flea market. There's a little place with a little stage.
You can put a show on in there. It holds about 800 people, 800 people, never to the show. Anvil, Anvil, where's your 800? You know what I'm saying? 800 people. Who are they? And what happened was I got on the phone. And I called the first number record find on the back of a record and it had the name of the record company owner, Al Mayor, Canadian. And I said, Al, whose biggest thing was Gordon Lightfoot before Ambul.
I said, Al, can I have this band play over here? Next thing you know, anvil came to America. And we were doing shows. Now they answer you. The first show was luckily a break even, even though they turned off the power in my house and I came home to nothing. True, I came home to a dark house with a babysitter and a baby. Because you couldn't pay the power bill or why? I couldn't pay the power bill because everything was on the show. Got you. I see everything was on the show. Plus my head.
I got to feed people too. What was that? I got there. We had so much power. We blew out the flea market power while it was going. I had to bring in a generator, $500 to bring in a generator. What's a generator? Come on down. Come on. I came out alive. I don't even know what the question is anymore. But I'm so downfounded. All of this stuff is the question. We're just talking about how you kind of created this scene. So now you've created this scene, at least in New Jersey in that area.
So you prove you can do shows and kind of prove that because what you would do is you would import records from Europe, let's say, and put them on sale at your store, like a specialty shop, right? So I know you've told the story a lot of times, but we've never talked about it before. Anthrax A on the East Coast is trying to get you to sign them. Also in the West Coast, there's a band called Metallica. How do you hear about anthrax and how do you hear about Metallica?
Well, again, it's Rock and Roll Heaven, that little flea market store with a cassette player that played one cassette and not two and added two cassette machine. We'll speak because that was broken to the baseline, which I found out later on was used by Al Jorgensen on all his records. He thought it was an amazing discovery.
That a basal go, that sounds great. Let's put it on the record. What happened was the bands wanted to come back and then the bands wanted to play together. So we did the Halloween headbanger ball. We started that with Ambo Raven and Royate.
Gotcha, 1200 people or whatever showed up at that thing. Wow, what was that? Who are these people? What's going on? They have a dragon that blows smoke in the lobby of their audience. You know, of the lobby when you walk in and they have best-founded suit contest and headless motorcycle driver driving off the stage and sticking up in place.
We started doing the shows with the bands and multiple venues. Right. And by the time Metallica was coming, we had Venom coming to the United States. We were bringing them. We had the rods with Van Emburg. We had Twisted Sister at the Fountain Casino in New Jersey. We had just shows everywhere. Plus we said we had some opportunities to play with Alka by themselves and put a little band that's bothering us all over the place called Anthrax on with them.
It just built and built and built and built to let it the Roseland. Where I don't know, 2003, that I don't know how many people were at the Roseland. But that place was packed and everybody in New York was there. Everybody in New York was there. And that was the show where Raven were noticed by Atlantic, Anthrax noticed in the latest sign by Island. And of course Metallica was signed by Electro Records at that event. But we had a triple header if you look at one way.
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let's go back to the source because you started mega force records in order to release the Metallica record. Is it where they kind of hand in hand? Yes. Metallica brought the label. The label idea brought Metallica and basically was hand in hand. We didn't know what even to name the label. I talk about it. I think in the book a little bit we were downtown on 42nd Street in Times Square.
in New York City and I see the vigilante is playing which was the name of the label. I said look at that. Most of the name of our record company and it's playing underneath the mega force. I said whoa the vigilante the mega force. So I basically said the name of this label is the mega force. Now as soon as the mega force people marketing company who must have in metalheads.
heard that we were doing this they sent us all these beautiful stickers and just wonderful things to use as marketing. And we would send them out with our packages and everything and people say wow these mega force guys this serious they got big bucks look what they use them for marketing you know all this fancy stuff. People started paying attention and not to mention that Metallica had a little bit to do with it you know at first nobody liked it in the real world of music.
You know the kids right the punters loved it. But the majors the A&R guys the record store owners until it started to sell on the shelves. They had no idea what this record was. They started to fast and to to heavy. They thought it was right. You know much too heavy yeah much too heavy much too fast and much too brutal. But that's the way everybody wanted it. It was apparent.
What did you what was your first impressions when you first met Metallica when they came across country to to come stay with you and record with you well they were a wild and crazy bunch of guys to talk about a punk attitude. To talk about a thrashing mentality is an understatement when describing the guys the boys as they came into my house.
They were really fresh they were really loose and they were really unhinged. They just wanted to have some drinks and they wanted to get on with the party and they just wanted to keep on going. And the first thing they wanted we thought and we'll correct was to take them down to rock a little heavy the record store. So they came down and they all took their fifth or quarter off the tray right in the front of my house I had it there and wasn't there when they left.
Certain people I won't say who were throwing up in front of the free market and they knew who they were and who they belong to. And they gave me a little grief you know they were just bent over with the bottle and just blessing away and that was pretty interesting and of course me as I said quite a bunch of grief if they only knew what was that was throwing up all over the place and making a mess.
Right they talk about it today they say to me remember I had boot 43 I was in there a boot 43 I was Laney's under comments forgets. So did you have a lot of a role in kind of the development of the band you know as they're recording were you kind of the Ipsophaxo manager at that point that's what was so beautiful about it.
I was so one on one with laws and James especially laws we were talking like father and son and sometimes you know we went to everything and we always made the law never ever be cliche. I say it on every every time I do anything on the air you know that was the word never be cliche never do it other people do stick to your guns be yourself what can we do now that wasn't done before.
A lot of being talk about it but not all that being do it and we went in the studio and did it the album cover behind me by the way I created that when it had to look like that. The acting on the photographs that was all natural and no bullshit no bullshit no pose of shit everything was right on and that's the way we did it. You see this picture it's not it's permanent place it's the killable post is going to be a little bit higher we just moved today.
I could a man cave or motion contributed so it's not really a man cave is that cave but we took it all from upstairs we moved it downstairs so I could get in. Because I can't get upstairs anymore so the first thing we put behind me was the killable for you Chris well thank you but look this is something very interesting though Johnny is so very interesting.
No I had no idea that you came up with the concept of the killable cover so explain what the visual means to you I mean obviously it's one of the heaviest images in metal history but what were you thinking when you came up with the concept well I came up with a lit lighting table. And basically someone's head just got smashed in by a hammer yeah and they put the hammer down on the table and that's the blood dripping off the hammer that by the way was as simple as it was.
And we would do the cover in that kind of James came up with the border and the killable got you you know that came around the art yeah they came up with the logo of course and that made the cover. How about the first answer I scurver how do you explain that I don't explain that I don't explain that I take no credit for that I take no credit for that one you know anthrax I have had a lot of hands on with anthrax through the years.
But the first album was really called canody and the producer and anthrax because I didn't know I was going to get what I got on fistful metal and the first time I walked into that studio full blast metal crashing man laid on my head yeah I said wow my last those guys they delivered.
They delivered I was jumping around the studio man like anatefoe whatever that was and filler on the roof right you know jumping around like wow they did it I was so proud of them because they really had to prove to me that they can make that album is that because they were just hanging around you all the time bother you to sign them sort of thing they didn't quite hit the mark.
They just got it on soldiers of metal and I just wasn't sure I knew it but I just in the 100% I was like 97% not that bad 97 not bad not better but I wasn't 100 and I live on 100 and they put me to 100 and they were absolutely great then I was time for anthrax to get them on the road another thing labels didn't do Chris.
We had no money yet we put our bands on the road to the entire United States of America we went and got agents for them we got agents to believe in them not just book them to like feel that part of a movement we got agents to feel that yeah and it was wonderful. I'm Jennifer and I'm Angela Kinsey we are best friends and together we have the podcast office ladies where we rewatched every single episode of the office with insane behind the scenes stories hilarious guests and lots of laughs.
Every Wednesday will be sharing even more exclusive stories from the office and our friendship with brand new guests and we'll be digging into our mail bag to answer your questions and comments. So join us for brand new office ladies 6.0 episodes every Wednesday plus on Mondays we are taking a second drink you can revisit all the office ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode.
Well we can't wait to see you there follow and listen to office ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcast. I'm also rolling with you when you really skill them all. Did it sell more than you expected was in a slow seller at first that snowballed over time. I remember the first 5000 right out of the box and I had to make another 2000 and I kept on selling them another 1200 another 7000 meanwhile Raven is like 27000 you know going to 30 Raven will show me the way.
It just that all for one album just was doing amazing yeah it was great yeah and it actually was the killer album on mega for us at the time really yes it was all for one. And this is all news by the way all not old news all news kill them all caught up and it wasn't really until we got to around the Roseland that they were in the 30s Metallica we keep keep the machine Raven and I was a huge Raven fan still am but when you mention that all for one you know live the inferno that time frame.
This is a sadness that I live with my whole life and I never fought for them as much as I wanted to fight for them but basically I was not a one man company I don't really talk about it but they went another direction that was asked of them to go on musically musically and commercially right right they got a very nice deal with Atlantic records.
And we had two bands we had anthrax and we had Raven still Metallica was gone and I had to make a decision because my partner wasn't that thrilled about where I was going with anthrax and the music they were playing he didn't really get it and I thought Raven were really taking a move to another dimension that I wasn't getting and I was so involved with anthrax at the time really need deep.
That I didn't fight hard enough for my beliefs and in Raven I always say it's my fault even though it's not my fault I feel that they changed the direction in their music they were not faster than the speed of light than sound.
So I was like rocking to your drive hard ride if they were to kept it up I felt they had a really great chance maybe not even to be like a heavy metal band in the thrashing but to be like a North colored who yeah just a rock and roll heavy rock and roll band for sure great rock and roll band the greatest rock and roll band and you know I know something I think this pandemic really screwed them because as I said I don't know if you heard the album Chris but metal city I heard the first song from it the the first time I was in the middle of the world.
The first song from it the video they did for it was great the whole album yeah is great and I felt that they could have just caught even the album to tour an album for the first time in a while would be amazing with somebody all these so they didn't have a chance to come back yet and I think they're going to come back because they deserve it so I'm on this record and I got my prayers out there for those boys.
Do you find that that happened quite a bit that if I'm thinking of a lot of my favorite bands back in that time frame from Raven you mentioned Annville you're talking about Saxon you know Lizzie Borden loudness. I did. Loudness though. They would sign with major labels and then the whole direction of the music would change the look would change I mean Raven has now got make up on and Waco's got you know Flamethrower shooting off the top of his hockey element.
Like that kind of turned off their hardcore fans and didn't seem like it was worth it to for the new ones that they made was probably one of his many as they were hoping for well as I said it was a misdirection and there was nobody there to say anything.
And there was somebody but I love the fellow who was my partner and he had a vision and it was a go get him vision if it were to work it would have been smoking unfortunately when you go on the edge sometimes it don't work right and it don't smoke and unfortunately it didn't smoke and that's what happened and everybody got caught in that fire and as I keep saying they're still great. Don't give up on Raven whatever you do they're magnificent and yeah still a fan.
When you're talking about Killamall and Ryder Lightning and you're very much involved with Metallica was it hard for you to have to let them go shall we say to from mega force over to Elektra what you mentioned. First of all right the lightning I tried to get involved in I was very involved in Killamall I wasn't involved that much in right the lightning at all it was a terrible loss on top of CIDP which is my form of MS.
I suffer from a mess of mess of depression. Gotcha. Gotcha. And that album cover Killamall man. But you want to know something I had a friend an agent by the name of Jeff Roland who came up to me and he said to me at the show and goes Johnny you got too many bands concentrate on one and take it all the way and then take on another one at a young age don't have three.
You know that responsibility and all that brain power you need it's just too much you're going to get hurt and that's exactly what happened. And do I miss it that I miss it do I miss it today sure but you know life deals you what it deals you Chris you got a rum with it you know I gave up I didn't give up I didn't have a Metallica anymore but I gained a mega force records right I gained an anthrax.
You know anthrax never went platinum except maybe the attack of the killer bees maith not sure but they went gold on everything I believe. I never got a gold album for the second album but it may be gold now it was a great reward I got to see them headline Madison Square Garden you know when we played that clash of Titans.
Clash of Titans Christian Titans you know they had their shot that night whatever was I got to see a lot of good things I got to see the public enemy anthrax store which was as good as any tour I've been on you know some of the shows with a lot of the loser quality it was just really powerful.
So it's all been good man if you asking I don't know what you asking but I'm telling you know I'm you've got such a long history and it's really interesting to me you know starting this independent record company but then suddenly you have a relationship with Atlantic records that was something I found very interesting the dichotomy of having these bands on your label but they're also on Atlantic distribution and you kind of caught in the middle at times fighting yeah I had a theory.
That worked for me for many years independent bands that belong independent should stay independent great point because if they go major they're going to get blown away then the majors are not going to know what to do they're going to think they're noisy going to think they're crap why are you even bothering right you're wasting everybody's time then there were the bands that were big enough to get a boost of sales like 20,000 overnight.
Like a testament like testament for example was Atlantic and somebody was joking me a fellow by the name Jason thombs who became a big boy he came up to me and said Johnny you don't sell any records you seem to sell 27 records 27,000 records on megaflust and then you get caught in a sandwich.
I said yeah the way Atlantic treats my bands how much of us some one 27,000 I can't find one in my own store near my house so the next day I went I found records near my house at the width if you go remember a place called the width yeah the width yeah then I went into the office with Jason I just took a
look for walking to see David glue was the vice president became the head of epic after that and David said what if I give you a little money what could you go now a little money wasn't a hundred thousand dollars to break a band of retail he gave me approval for five thousand dollars that's what I have to deal with and he was my best friend
I went into the office of the guy in charge of retail I said I got five grand I'm putting it all on trends world what could we do he took a liking to me started laughing because I see what I could do Johnny he takes it put it on on trends world loan but all trends will go to 20,000 records once though a one run chain launching I go back into David glue the next week he goes Johnny 45 47,000 records plus what happened what did they do I say I put the 5,000 on trends world and all of a sudden all
the kids started selling records we almost went almost went gold but he's really you know he's really was very sad we got to like 470,000 records and then we had to raise phase the bump of the gold have a first gold record and as we kept on spending they kept on returning I'm like a 430 spend millions of dollars I think I'm going Johnny you're winning Johnny you're winning you didn't know you know so you got you got all that kind of stuff in your life that's my
relationships and let me just read this this Chris then there was the middle of the roads which I took the Caroline to distribute my independence right so it was and it was it was mages independence and they all did well they all flourished like I said there was a real strategy back then to owning a record company and working with the majors and obviously that's all gone now those days are gone
but you really had to be smart like you said you get $5,000 and we're laughing at it but yet here you are you turn 5,000 into 20,000 plus because you had a great strategy and knew the people that you were working with right you got to know when to hold you got to know when to fold right everything has to be people loving you I built my whole business on love I really believe that there are people think I'm crazy there are people
hating of course everybody has to hate somebody but there's a lot of love when you speak about motion and John Sizzula and people really enjoyed us because we tried to make the business fun again we tried to put the fun into rock and roll that we melt when you mentioned Kings X that's a band that didn't reach the potential that we all thought they could it was the sound to it to it collect it wrong place wrong time what do you theories are on that because they were awesome meaning it still are
I believe Kings X wrote great songs but they never wrote the magic hit they never wrote the magic hit even before I sign Kings X to Megaforce Marshall was being them because Marshall dug their sound she loved the detuning she loved all that and I was looking for the song I was at a point
with Atlantic Records where I too was working with Doug Mars and looking for the song and they delivered very close but they never delivered the song a lot of beings just say don't have the song but who are they even AC DC have quite a few you know and they were rocking band you know I just say that
I just went in so Kings X not too long ago before the pandemic not too long ago and Doug does the song called Pray for Me that's the one was about the best song I've heard in years it blew me from here to Kingdom come but it wouldn't get arrested on the radio
and we had a number two song on the radio I think over my head I'm using it over my head that's the one yeah I think was a number two song and it didn't translate didn't translate to sales correct correct I had a minute spoke of AC DC I got him on the AC DC tour
wow right it just didn't translate they had their crown and that was it their crowd how are you able to get Kings X on an AC DC tour and that's quite a two connections right connections and getting agents to love your band and see the vision in your band and believing they could break no matter what
you know I found that my whole career as I mentioned earlier was for the love and getting people to believe what what other bands did you have on mega forest that that fell into that Kings X category that you feel should have been much bigger than they were
well there was a band called profit who we had spent a profit who did come feel the noise yeah we had Spencer produced the album great album cycle of the moon and it went absolutely nowhere unfortunately a lot of the rock signings people didn't want rock and roll from mega forest records they want to trash oh that's an interesting point so you're saying because it came out on mega forest people thought that everything from that label would be heavy and thrashy
and when they got it and it wasn't it went it's gotcha it's a good thing that you've defined your brand but it's a bad thing if you're trying to branch out right it didn't work it didn't even work on T.T. Quake the poor band yeah what a band that was and and they got demolished you know icon demolished I mean not even they didn't even get their foot out on the ground demolished it got to the point where and Lanick says why that's what we put out we put out the winger you know what I'm saying
oh I see so they don't want their boutique thrash labels to be putting out the icons of the world they didn't know why they didn't understand why they didn't know why I wanted to be like them they thought I wasn't equipped to be like them they didn't want to be bothered with the extra space to work those records of radio
so what what do you do that just try and focus in more and just the thrash bands I mean because like you said you had some item I think what did I do I told you I'm a sick person I came with John Bellas a classical pianist a protég of Leonard Bernstein the greatest who led the New York Philharmonic and I put out a Screenson concerto Bruce Springsteen music set the classical music now whatever you want to say
I saw 8000 of those records and nobody would even put it in a store not Atlantic nobody would let it then because it wasn't classical and it wasn't pop goes to the movies right no place to put it where am I going to put this on the Springsteen oh no that ain't going there so that's the story of John Mosher in the in the mages we had on great moments you know and when we went outside as a manager it was very weird we had a band
who were mind-punk on epic we saw 150,000 records and got dropped because we didn't sound enough like Pearl Jam and put me on the street trying to sell them to sell this second album murder but I saw 3 million albums with ministry that's huge Psalm 69 and and they built big plus all over the world a million plus when they sold 50,000s and maybe 60,000s in America they sold 300,000 to 3 million we had a great one with ministry management you know we were good management team
so can't be thought of as just a rickid company right you had to expand especially when you're talking about the 90s when you mentioned like Pearl Jam and Grunge came in and it did take a big chunk out of metal and out of thrash I mean it's still existed but not not the same way look what it did to poor Metallica you know I mean God it made everybody so chronic and horrible and really good terrible things to people's lives
I sold mega force records I was so depressed I couldn't stand that music I said I've had enough of this shit you know I'm gone that's the way it was I even managed to add from Seattle which and had him signed to a lecture the big guy big guy lumberjack had him signed to a lecture to I think a lecture yeah lecture records I signed to a lot of 1992 there was the peak for a lot of pollution number two where we had Soundgod and Pearl Jam and ice cube open for us ministry
right minister right and the closing band was red archery peppers and that was a great story red archery pepper story because who was the oh my god was that great producer and Rubin Rick Rick was chasing me all over to produce an adjorgensen record okay he and jorgensen would have been interesting but you don't tell our jorgensen who's a producer and another producer is going to produce his stuff right
don't work at all yeah that's a bad one but one night in Chicago we go to a start-up diner whatever that restaurant is some skate and we're eating and who's sitting right at the next table with Rubin so Rick will get pulls out of Rubin pulls out of tape comes up to the table gives it out was elected here when I'm doing well two weeks later I was in the studio producing give it away give it away now
the red archery peppers truth we told really that's your single you single of give it away now with five other mixes by Alan Jorgensen Alan Jorgensen by the way I don't even talk about Alan Jorgensen because he's his own world his own story but it was the craziest time in my life the best time of my life how Jorgensen enough said about out please
so Johnny as we start to wind down here I mean there's still a few more questions to ask but how was it for you like do you still have a relationship with a lot of these bands that you kind of discovered and helped through the years
well you know if I want to speak the laws of James we will yeah James was one of the last voices Marsha heard before she left the planet that's cool he called her and what he said to her was so wonderful I could cry now just the words were so beautiful by people she passed that was James so that's the relationship if you ask it's that kind of thing it's not about phoning this or both right Charlie Bonanthe remains a friend
Frankie Joey good friends Chuck Billy is my best friend yeah Chuck's great you know and the guys are overkill the whole friend so I guess we're all friends but I don't go to the house and say come on man let's bust open a bottle of whatever yeah Greg use whatever yeah great goose let's talk a little bit of overkill because we just mentioned their name and I think overkill in a lot of ways they kind of get not passed over but that's more of an underrated band especially
the longevity that they have and the dedication they have and you were there with them for so many years as well overkill is about the strangest relationship I've ever had I love those guys I do whatever I can for overkill any day of the week and you want to know something there a darn good band yeah really good band and Bobby is great and Dee Dee is great and their new drummers amazing you know and the top
plays are great I think they must have other things going on in their lives I don't know because I don't see them touring as much as they should be there's something more to it than the music is what I believe yeah I got you I believe that if Blitz Bobby Blitz else with the lead singer good to a more he would and I think he's in a band we're
going now with somebody like a covers thing yeah covers he was supposed to play it for the pool does a bob bash in orbit but the pandemic wipe that thing out missed everything yeah but I look forward to hearing that you mentioned you're still a fan of heavy metal what what newer bands do you do you like listening to well that's why I said please don't ask me because I always forget
I like and then I'm my favorite but I like septic flesh from grace I think they're a very interesting band but it's really screwed up I don't have my phone with me because the band that I listen to I listen to like every day and I can't pick it in a name and I love them so much they do a cover version of shout cover version of shout yes they're from I believe the german Scandinavian with an A
arch enemy arch enemy arch enemy there you go yes I love arch enemy I love arch enemy and my favorite band right now is blowing me away is animals all leaders you gotta hear this if you haven't heard it the best guitar work you're gonna hear it's right up there with demiola and all the big boys it's heavy as hell it's slap guitar so I'm kind of stuff animals as leaders fantastic
I love that band to death but that's the the more deathy growly stuff sure is a band called the absence that's from Florida they're great the absence and that basically is just a few of the bands I listen to you still see me listening to cream
you know I'm still listening to nantucket sleigh ride you know by mountain never be so classics man I'm still listening to some of those if they're heavy you know lay you know songs by big bowl garden at peace nice going back to that stuff so you know I have a little radio show oh yeah yes honest John could I mention it please it's an online station called cranium radio and I'm on Tuesday to Thursday to Saturday and eight and I do my favorite four songs segment something old something recent
something borrowed something real decent and when I play something old I really go back to the seventies you know I got Alice Cooper on there next week and I came real early on the what's his name blah blah blah blah I can't think right now my mind is not so good either so you got dementia lot of years ahead banging to much head banging I get there early on records to and it's a fun show if anybody kids to listen
to the cranium cranium dot com right cranium dot com thank you you have to put me wherever long will promote that for sure last few things that there's always kind of so interested in in in in Cliff Burton because you spent such a short time on the planet you're one of the one of the few guys that got to spend some time with them what was Cliff like and you have any
clifstories that you remember that kind of bring a smile to your face well Cliff Burton always puts a smile to my face yeah I always talk about the fact that I saw Cliff just before he passed the day before oh you were over there yeah I was over with the anthrax they were opening up the Metallica I think Metallica on the justice for all master puppets well they seem master but they had the lip the statue up there oh wow okay
so that's why I was always against confused but the reality was we spent a lot of time together and we parted a little bit together it was by some jewelry at the great bull frog which is a jewelry store right next to a diner where I was eating we met each other in the past Cliff was my happy conversations Cliff was my logical conversations they never got enforced
he was the guy that agree with me and then disappeared Cliff but Cliff loved children and I always tell the story because it's in the book too at night my house was a nut house he had venom ample raven Metallica old bridge militia all the writers all the chaped traders everybody just the whole floor was filled with people listening to Gary Moore and beating on the floor
and listening to music and Cliff would go upstairs would rickie my daughter and would read a bedtime stories and make sure she was comfortable when everything was nice and then come down and how many people could say that his daughter was was read was read bedtime stories by Cliff Byron to settle himself because
that was Cliff and we smoked many a dooby together many dooby that was our first common bond yeah we ever had one we made sure the other one was partaking it was the law yeah and anyway Cliff Byron when he passed I had flown to San Francisco to see Testament and they were rehearsed in a music building building that had let's say 26 bands were rehearsing in it and that night when I went to hear Testament
all I could hear was bass plays playing behind every door anesthesia pulling teeth was it a tribute or what a auditioning I don't know but whatever it was it blew my mind and there's nothing else to be said I'm sure this comes to be said but that's what I have to say last story for you Johnny you wrote it in your book and I know this is something I have no recollection of I guess when
when you signed us and we were in New York doing meetings and press and everything that you gave me a ride back into oh god you could play like you could play like a grandmother why was I complaining like a grandma I don't know why I decided to do it but I decided to play Lou Reed all the way home not good not the great movie stuff from the old but the live rocker or animal because I thought for some reason he'd like the intro and he'd like sweet Jane
but instead he's sitting next to me going this is what you plan John and I remember it because you kept saying it to me you don't remember but you kept us saying it's playing Lou Reed and it's stuck with me because I thought I was literally torturing you so I you know me I'll get worse and you obviously were in effect at all so I don't know I guess the joke was on me Chris it's funny because when you're met I remember like I thought
you're just gonna play like one tune and then switch it to something else they just kept going and going I was like I'm here with one of like the pioneers of the heavy metal scene and the East Coast that's right he's playing Lou Reed listen two or three songs but it was like 45 minutes to the Lincoln tunnel no we're going past you know
we got a lands never pass asbury park that's what I thought you were going through that's what I thought you were going through I really believed that you were saying I can't believe this is who I'm driving with that this is what he's freaking playing well not be the entertainer and I want to say something I have I didn't bring it with me but I have a beautiful picture I'll text to you and send it please you me a
much oh I love that man I would love that so much yeah I have that it's a gorgeous picture and we're all feeling good we're backstage and at the wrestling we're all feeling our oats because of you yeah it was a wonderful night and thank you very much and it's always good to see you Chris it really is yeah man like I said when when after she passed I posted that little video from from the fuzzy thing we're like these guys that hold these crazy jobs and Martha's like yeah
these jobs these guys had and I just remember that time forever it was it was a good time and like like I said you guys gave us a start here we are 20 years later very successful we just opened up for iron maiden to stadium last year in Los Angeles wow then getting bigger than that we've played with battalions we played with kiss and it all started with with John and Marsha who took us on way back when so thanks to you for giving us a chance and for always being such good people
to us that's wonderful I'm happy to hear this yes sir I'm happy to hear this well listen Mr. Jericho away we go thank you Johnny alright