you All right, welcome to Talk is Jericho. It's the pot of thunder and rock and roll, and we're all about the rock and roll today with a guest who's making his fifth appearance on Talk is Jericho. Give him the green jacket and give it up for the star child himself, Paul Stanley. And you know what we're talking about. Kiss, of course, 50 years of kiss. I know you want to know what the avatars are all about. The ones the band introduced at their final farewell show.
In December 2023 at Madison Square Garden. Wait till you hear Paul's explanation. Some huge things on the horizon for Kiss. So mark your calendar for 2027. Maybe look at some Vegas hotel rooms. You'll hear all about that. We also talk about Kiss's final tour, the set list, the lack of special guest appearances.
and whether or not Kiss, and more specifically Paul, are really done performing live. We talk about Paul's vocal range, his onstage persona, and the musician who most influenced him. We get into Zeppelin, The Stones, Rush. We talk about Kiss taking off the makeup in the 80s and putting it back on in the 90s and shooting the classic Dressed to Kill album cover. So much more. Great conversation with the fifth timer, Paul Stanley, right here on Talk is Jericho.
stories and it starts right here, right now. All right. The return of Paul Stanley to talk to Jericho. Very awesome. I went and counted. This is your fifth appearance. Is it really? It is. Yeah. Wow. If it's like Saturday Night Live, you get the green jacket. Bring it on. So much to discuss here. And this is great because I was contacted by your people, contacted my people, and said Paul just wants to discuss KISS and all the great things.
that are happening and have happened. But basically it's been a year and change since your last live performance on stage. How does it feel going a year without doing the show and how have you been continuing on? It's weird. It's weird because being home isn't anything different. Not leaving is what's different. So part of it is, yeah, when I'm not on tour, I'm home.
the idea that you're not going back out is uh something you got to wrap your head around there's so many great things going on with kiss but as a live rock band You know, I see footage and I go, wow, you know, that's great. And we're not doing it again. So I see footage from the garden, from Madison Square Garden, and actually the week.
the anniversary, the year I was in New York, December 1st and 2nd, and passing the garden and thinking, you know, it's like a lifetime ago, so much happened. But yeah, it's... It's kind of like looking behind you and seeing where you've been, but the street only goes this way. There's no turning back. No U-turns. How was that for you? Because the end of the road tour... and we we talked about this it started in 19 of course you get two years on hold because of the pandemic
And then that's two years of you guys getting older and then finally finishing it up. How was that for you? That last, let's say 10 gigs, 12 gigs, knowing that one closer to the end. I think it was, I mean, I keep saying weird. It's one thing to be on the end of the road tour and it's going to end in a year. But when you suddenly go, wait a minute, it's almost over. That's.
Pretty daunting. And then I got so sick. I mean, literally I thought, do I die in this hotel? You know, I was really, really, really sick and we canceled Toronto for some other shows. Right towards the end.
Yeah, and I mean, it was terrible because people wanted us to reschedule, but the tour... was going to end we couldn't we couldn't do the garden and then oh now we're going to go back and poughkeepsie yeah so um it was uh you know the it was a stark reality to go wow we're we are really coming to the end of it and uh but i have to say man the the band was on fire the band uh the band was doing what the band should do on a a final tour
like cross the T's, dot the I's and kick everybody in the ass. I think that people who love the band had great justification for loving the band and people who didn't like the band. wound up loving the band so it was all good but you know in the way the fanfare behind that last gig with you know you're at the new york stock exchange and
It was really kind of a cool, almost like Kiss Day in New York City in a lot of ways. Or maybe it actually was Kiss Day. I don't know. But either way, it was so much emphasis on this. you know new york band new york uh you know legends finishing up in the city they started yeah it was amazing it was amazing to see cabs with us on the sides of them
and to go to the top of the Empire State Building again, but not as high as we had gone for that poster. Yeah, it really was a great way to finish things up. um the two garden shows we could have done more garden shows but they weren't available so it was great and uh i felt great about it i felt i felt really really good But it was sobering. It's really interesting that outside my dressing room was a photo of Elvis playing the garden in 71 or 72.
And I drove people in my cab. To see that show. To see that show. So it was heady stuff to do it. When we were on stage, I could remember out there where my mom and dad sat and where Gene's mom was. So it was big stuff.
Was it surreal for you? I mean, I just imagine, you know, after I have my last match, which would probably be sooner than later, obviously taking off the boots for the last time, for example, how was that for you? I mean, I know sometimes you don't look too much in the past, but taking off the makeup for the. probably last time or taking off the costume for the last time well i can always put it on you know get my jollies putting on my costume right um
You know, not to get like philosophical, but what I've seen over the years is life is really a one-way street and it keeps getting narrower. And, you know, part of getting older and part of moving forward. is leaving some things behind. You don't get to take everything with you. What you get to take are the memories and the accomplishments. I'm sure if you ask Michael Jordan, you'd hear the same thing, you know.
Do you miss it? Sure, of course you miss that connection and the adrenaline within audience and the love and the reciprocity, but at some point you have to let it go. I think a lot of people too might not even understand or might not think about the fact that with Kiss, like you think, well, the Stones are still playing and you're 10 years younger than Mick, but Mick's not wearing the battle gear. Was that getting harder and harder? I mean, how much does it weigh? 30, 40? Yeah.
carry that around pound look you know we've always been except when we took it off we've always been kiss as people think of us and um that's part of the identity and part of the the persona of the band so we couldn't do this forever any more than than Muhammad Ali could could fight or Michael Jordan could keep playing you know we were
and are athletes as much as we are a band. And at some point you realize either it's getting a lot harder or it's going to get a lot harder. And do you want to, do you want to? you want to be there when uh you get in the ring with somebody and somebody who's nowhere near your ability knocks you down on the canvas you know so um It was more a intellectual decision. It's time to stop in the same way that an athlete stops, much more than a musician, because can I still play? Of course I can.
Can I still play Detroit Rock City? Can I still play Love Gun? Sure. But running around in that outfit and doing what I was doing, that's a lot of work. All right, this week's ROH Match of the Week recap is brought to you by FanDuel. Make every moment more. Just got back from ROH Global Wars in Australia, and we had a trios match of me. Big Bill and the Bad Apple, Brian Keith, taking on the Outrunners and Bandito. What a great match this was. We kicked off the show.
in Brisbane. And it was Grand Slam Global Wars. So we taped one show for Collision and another show for Ring of Honor. And if you're going to watch one Ring of Honor show this year, this is the one. Kick off the show, have the cool bragging rights of saying that I was the very first introduced wrestler in Australia for AEW as Spotlight played and out came The Learning Tree.
And, man, we had such a blast. The crowd was crazy. They were enjoying everything. And like I always say, there's many different ways to have a banger, quote-unquote banger. If you saw Kenny Omega's tag match on Collision, it was outstanding. Our match on Ring of Honor, just as outstanding, but in a completely different way. And the fact that they were doing multiple kickouts and crazy high-risk maneuvers.
And we were doing, you know, Turbo Floyd doing the Undertaker rope walk, but across the entire ring, like all four corners. But people just going crazy for it. And we had a really good time, man. I enjoyed it. Outrunners are wearing a mask. Loss, Outrunners, we're still not quite sure if that was actually Turbo Florida. I took off Truth Magnum's mask, I've got to be honest with you. And we built that into the match as well.
and made a very entertaining high spot out of that. So it was really important for us to be there. And it was a long trip. I did 60 hours of airplane travel over the last 13 days. So still... Out in space, as a matter of fact, it's 11 o'clock in the evening here, and I just woke up from a nap. But it was important to go...
to Australia and do this show because Australia is a great wrestling market and Brisbane is number four out of the four major cities, uh, over on the East coast there behind Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, uh, especially even for wrestling fans. So, you know, We sold out the arena, over 10,000 people there. But this is the first of many shows in Australia. But we really wanted to put our best foot forward and let everybody know that AEW is one of the best wrestling companies in the world.
Today, if not the best wrestling company in the world, and I think all the people in Brisbane that came and saw us. you know, last week would agree with us on that. So yes, even though it was a long haul, the match was worthwhile. The show was worthwhile. We had a great time. I started doing the high spot, which of course is the old high.
head scissors from the seventies. I'm bringing it back, baby. You wait and see, I'll make it into a finish someday. And it's called the high spot. Cause when I get into the peak position, I go, hi guys. And everybody loves it. So. Just a great time had by all in that match. Bandito pinned me to set up our championship match on Collision this Saturday. And once again, if you're going to watch one Collision this year, you should watch that match.
From Phoenix, we tore the house down. One of my favorite matches that I've had. And Tony Khan said it could be one of the best collision main events of all time. And maybe we'll talk about that next week. on the FanDuel Match of the Week recap brought to you by FanDuel. Make every moment more. Well, one of the things that everyone was talking about afterwards when the show ended was the way you guys ended the show with this kind of a trailer for the avatars coming out.
You know, I think a lot of people don't quite understand and we can talk about this, but I did go see the ABBA show in London with the avatars and it's mind blowing. Like it really is a full on. I don't want to say a Disney type of a show, but it's something you would see in that realm. It kind of blows your mind with the technology available. So let's talk about the avatars because you end the show with the avatars. I think a lot of people were a little confused.
looking very excited about it so yeah let's discuss that you know it was a double-edged sword do you put something out there that in some ways doesn't even resemble what you're going to do but lets people know that there's something coming after this and that's what we did anybody who thought that that's what we're going to wind up with it was really in such a a developmental
stage and so early on there really was talk back and forth do we do we do this do we put something out there that really isn't reflective of what we're going to do but shows that we're moving forward. So that's really what it was. But what we're going to have is mind-boggling. Even since the ABBA show.
by the time the abba show started technology had moved that much further and that show was great i mean it's it's uh when you see people really interacting and responding to them and they're not holograms and they're not they're not anything that technically most of us understand but uh to see people just
enjoying the hell out of it and being a part of it the last thing we're going to do is replicate a concert i don't want anybody to go boy that really looks like a marshall amplifier that's not what we're doing we're we're we're creating something really immersive and whether you like kiss or don't like kiss it goes so far beyond that it's it's uh it's dazzling and it's uh it's sensory overload
for everybody so we couldn't have better people involved you know when you have ilm george lucas's people and all these people involved it's going to be great i have to say that anybody who's expecting something like what some people have tried in the last decade I mean that's if we were doing that we wouldn't do anything right there's no reason for us to do anything except if we believe in it. Money, money's great.
My rent's paid. I think what you might be referring to, another show that I saw was the Dio hologram, which is a little weird because it's Dio, but it's not. It's kind of a computer guy. And you mentioned you don't want to do a stimulated concert. This is going to be more of an actual show, adventure. Totally. And it's immersive and you feel it.
whether it's temperature changes or vibrations or everything it's just going to be it's just going to be something pretty staggering but you know once we stop touring kiss becomes more and always has been but once we stopped touring kisses that much more than a band right we're whatever we're whatever we decide kisses so i think the idea of working with people who
are outside of our perspective or idea of what we are especially the people we're working with it's like tell us show us and there's just amazing things to be done When is the approximate release date, shall we say? 27. 27. 2027. Is it going to be kind of? Okay. You're reading my mind. So you're kind of looking at it as being almost a residency type of a show, like surface layer. Unlike anything that someone might compare it to, this isn't something that can play.
vegas for a month and then move to topeka kansas it's you build the structure you build the arena that it's in specifically for that so that's what what's uh happening that's what's in the works you you can't uh you can't install this you know it's not a projector and a screen yeah so it's something where it has to be a brick and mortar almost the kiss arena sort of thing like uh in some ways like the abba show that they had to build they had to build around the event
I mean, I'm sure it's going to be a bombastic campaign when that starts. And since we're speaking in Vegas, I just saw the Eagles at the Sphere a couple of weeks ago. And I saw you two last year there. And I was thinking, man. KISS is tailor-made for this Sphere experience. I don't know if you've been there or not. Just seeing that, were you thinking like, oh my gosh, we could do so much stuff with this? Yeah, I have mixed feelings about the Sphere, only because...
In the 60s or so, there was a thing called laserium. And it was basically like a big laser show. and they'd be blasting pink floyd or zeppelin right or something like laser pink floyd sort of yeah yeah you know so with the sphere with all you know respect to everybody who's played there most of the time you're not looking at the band. You're looking at the screen. So do you really need the band? So that's my question about it. Yeah, if we had done it or were going to do it.
you'd be watching us, you know? So yeah, it's a great venue, but it's not about the people playing. It's about the person who puts together. the show and the show isn't on stage. show is on the screens yeah the show is the sphere itself and you're right because that's exactly what i was saying you have to be a pretty great rock and roll band to even go in there because nobody is watching the band themselves so if you're not a good band then the whole thing falls in the show you're the
soundtrack for somebody's creative vision that they're putting on the screen. Somebody's interpreting the music visually and you're playing the music and they're they're showing what they do. So, yeah, so in that way, I think bands aren't necessarily necessary at the Sphere. The Sphere is what it's all about.
question about the garden show your last show you did two in a row was there any thoughts about maybe playing some different songs each night and making it both different types of experiences no okay um it's always been an issue with some of the real real diehards that oh you played the same songs um a week ago well you didn't have to be at that show a week ago in this show the people who are there tonight
didn't see last week and what we were always trying to do was the best set list we could and to please a handful although i love them and feel great gratitude towards them. The idea of changing the set list for a handful of people who are looking at YouTube videos or who are just reading set lists.
Better yet, talk to the people in Detroit and then talk to the people in Vancouver and talk to the people. None of them are going to say, yeah, they played the same songs because they weren't there. So no. um we're not that kind of band and there are bands that do that sure but what we have always been about was coordinating the effects and the timing of building the show
Our show was never about a group of songs. It was about pacing. How you come out and start a show, how you take it down, how you build it up. So, no, there was never... Never any thought, hey, let's do a completely different set. Why? What if it doesn't work? What if people don't like it as much? You know? Yeah, it's like, okay.
let's polish a diamond but you know what now let's throw it out yeah was there ever any thought about having any guests on that last show because everyone a lot of you know super hardcore kiss fans were like why was there no tribute to the other band members over the years the historical you know guys that have been around you know to be somewhat diplomatic there were people who made unrealistic demands of what they required and it's not about that
it wasn't for example a celebration of the beginning of the band it was a celebration of 50 years of a band as opposed to a tribute to the start so As far as, you know, Ace and Peter, they weren't there for many reasons. And I've said it a hundred times and I'll say another hundred times.
We couldn't be here today without what those guys did. And we couldn't be here today with them. With them. And that was even more just wondering about like Eric Carr or Bruce or Mark St. John or whatever it may be. what are you going to do um i think the best way to honor everyone is to be the best we can be um what are we going to have uh videos up on the screen you know um
or draped photos. The fact that we were there, we're there because of everybody who participated, some more than others, but the tribute. the tribute to everyone is us existing kiss as the entity as a whole totally let's talk about the legacy of kiss and once again here we are a year after the final show
Still one of the biggest bands in the world. Always will be. I mean, we just watched a video earlier, you and I, of the Beatles with the overplaying Ringo Starr for yesterday. Beatles lasts forever. I mean, Stones are still together, but five, ten years from now, they won't be.
i mean that's pretty freaking cool man i mean and how do you feel about the legacy of the band that you started i think the legacy is only going to grow i think it's only going to get bigger you know the the stones are an interesting one At some point, what's it going to be? The stone? I'm going to see the rolling stone. They have survived.
you know, more decades than us, certainly, and are an institution. People go to see them because it's the Stones. It's an event, yeah. Yeah. So I think that over time... We'll only get bigger because you become more powerful the longer you exist. When we were doing the End of the Road tour, I think we became... you know, almost superheroes because we were timeless and we didn't change that greatly. People would come to see us and go, wow, they look like they did.
40 years ago, you didn't get that close to us. But yeah, I think Kiss is timeless and that Kiss will just transcend everything it's been. Have you ever met Mick or Keith over the years? Yes. Did they know about KISS? Yes. Yeah, I mean, you know, those guys are legends. Nothing but respect. I don't care how old I get or how successful.
I'm a fanboy. I'm a guy who is who I am because of my love for rock and roll and for other people. My respect and admiration, you know, has been... the the core of inspiration we talked about the zeppelin documentary that just came out and i know you're a big jimmy page fan you had the chance to meet him and become friends with him
That must be kind of cool. Like you mentioned, you're still a fan at heart, but here's two legends, but you're still like, yeah, but if it wasn't for Jimmy, maybe there wouldn't be a Paul. Oh, totally. Totally. And I think that's, that's great. I think to be able to. say honestly, I wouldn't be here without you. You're the reason I do what I do. And that's wonderful. I mean, to have a life where you get to
incorporate things that were important to you at different times in your life in a different way. And I have nothing but admiration, respect, and... continue to be inspired by zeppelin and and jimmy in particular you know fantastic guy totally on top of what he's done and why and um very respectable and articulate and you know isn't um isn't hasn't transcended or become something that um a cartoon or a parody you know so
yeah i mean zeppelin zeppelin's at my very core and and you know to have jimmy at our shows doesn't get better than that and get nervous when you jimmy's there yeah but
It's also, you know, when you have a relationship with somebody. Yeah, I mean, granted, we've had a lot of people come to the shows who are well known, but... that's a different level right right right and um thankfully he you know has you know has loved what he's seen and uh there's a real mutual respect and great going to lunch or going out for tea or hanging out have you been playing guitar over the last year good question not much i think i needed to separate myself
I think I need to have a purpose in doing it. I spent so much time playing the guitar that I really, I have two guitars in my bedroom and I rarely. have picked them up, but I'll pick it up and go, I can, that's, I want you, or that's making love. I haven't played much. Do you have any desire to do another Paul Stanley album, more of a rock album?
I love the first album you know that that's a great classic yeah that's a great for yeah that's a great kind of like musical diary of my life at that point um live to win was really me kind of going let me do something unexpected let me do something that a little more modern maybe yeah and you know i listen to it and most of it i go yeah you know it's uh
The band on tour was fantastic and that made it all worthwhile. But if I was to do another album, it would definitely have a guitar around my neck. That's how it started. and so yeah i would do that have you thought about it i have yeah i have i know that before when we've chatted you're like well people might not want to hear new songs whatever i think people would love to hear a paul stanley rock album i i think people would
in their own way, although not on the same level in terms of success, I think people would be more interested in hearing a Paul Stanley album than another Kiss album. I agree. I agree with that. uh and we certainly saw that firsthand you know the classic kiss albums are so ingrained in certain uh time periods in people's lives that
nothing that we could ever do could compete with that, no matter how good it is. So yeah, if I were to do something, I think people would be interested and would enjoy it.
i think along those lines it was great you guys played say yeah on the whole end of the road tour and a lot of people were like well not a lot of people some you know the typical fan they should be playing making love but it's like if you don't play say yeah or delilah or something you're basically saying those last two records you did
aren't worth playing anything live but say yeah it had it come out you know in the 70s all those people that wanted to hear that song would be like yeah we love this song hey if if modern day delilah or hell or hallelujah had been on one of those earlier albums they'd be classics but their disadvantage is that they weren't there and people don't remember hearing that uh when they were
fighting with the other kids at school yeah you know about loving the band yeah or their first date or whatever things have significance that goes beyond the music and there's no way to replicate that i mean i don't care who the band is and any of the bands we've spoken about of course apart from zeppelin but any band that went in and did an album at this point nobody wants to hear that stuff live i mean
when you go to see the stones do you really want to hear oh you want to hear brown sugar you want to hear satisfaction get off my cloud you know you pick those songs but it's not the the great tracks from you know the last four or five albums so that's how i feel
you mentioned uh you were doing some stuff for for um a dress to kill 50 anniversary we're getting to that point now we're getting to the 50 anniversaries which is you're shaking your head you can't believe it no is it hard yeah yes it's uh It's all hard. I say to my kids all the time, isn't it insane that I'm 73? It really is. It's not possible. So, yeah, when you text me or whatever, this album is like 45 years or 50 years, and it's like, it almost becomes...
I say my birthday has become a cruel joke, you know. So, yeah, it's 50 years ago. I go, 50 years ago, I was an adult. As an adult getting into trouble and touring. So yeah, it's very interesting to look back on them and have them that far in the distance.
But you do like a re-release 50th anniversary box set or whatever it may be. Is that a plan to do that for all the records? Honestly, Universal decides what they want to do. We have no... no say we certainly do what we can to help out if they want some some help but um whatever they want to do at this point is is uh really up to them and has been for quite a while you know
you can get the greatest hits that starts with Love Gun, or you can get the greatest hits that starts with, you know, with the blue cover or the green cover. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you sell the catalog to Universal? Is that why they have the... Say? No, in terms of the recordings, they own the recordings. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. When you think about Jurassic DeKill, it just popped into the classic cover where you're on the streets. And do you remember that day? Very well.
very much we were shooting for this uh cream magazine pseudo comic book um with a storyline in it where we we change into kiss like clark and changes into superman And we were shooting. And I think we just decided to do a shoot in front of that lamppost that on 14th, no, it was 23rd Street.
yeah and you know you you you're you're out there and and people are just walking around like they do in new york like we're just four everyday guys you know and the only one who owned a suit was peter yeah they were all bill of coin suits and i was wearing my dad's shoes so i'm up on my toes trying to be as tall as as gene had aces clogs on and uh yeah i mean i i remember that well
I think in life, if something's not something you remember, it probably isn't worth remembering. I remember a whole lot. I always think about this. I mention it all the time to fellow KISS fans. now kiss here we are legendary you know you could put your makeup on and walk down sunset boulevard and people be going crazy
The balls you guys must have had in 1973, 74 to walk around like that. I'm sure people were howling at you like these idiots or these guys are gay or whatever it may be. Like that took a lot of guts for you guys to even. emerge that way we were fearless beyond fearless um me and gene and peter and ace we for any differences we had, and there were so many, but that was part of the combustibility of the band. For any of that, we were united in KISS and nothing was going to stop us.
When we walked down the street or when we played a club and we'd walk out on stage and people would laugh, you know, we were there so that they wouldn't be laughing at the end of the show. so yeah we were totally committed to what we were doing and um you know sometimes i'll i'll i'll see video from early on of us playing and is it uh virtuoso playing far from it but the the ferocity and the commitment to what we were doing was palpable maybe you look at peter playing the drums it was uh
I mean, it was just ferocious. And again, I'm not talking about necessarily chops compared to some other people, but he...
He was committed to live or die on the drums. Was it hard to get gigs in those early days because of your whole show and the persona? In the very beginning, it was hard because... well in the very beginning when we were a local band in new york you couldn't play a club if um you weren't playing top 40 if you weren't playing the hits we didn't play the hits right so we had to find ways to
get our name out there and play while we're playing strutter and a hundred thousand years and deuce so um that's why we we started putting on our own shows dances whatever you want to call them So yeah, I mean, it's just funny to think that in the beginning, even like at the Daisy or Coventry, we were playing the lion's share of what we were playing was the first and second album.
Is the Coventry still there? No, it's gone. What's there? I don't know. Coventry, I think at one point became like a... Polish Legionnaires Hall or something like that. I was thinking it'd be great after the MSG show if you guys just drove down to whatever the Coventry is now. Somebody's living room. Yeah, not Coventry anymore.
what i meant when i said about gigs is when you start getting national and you have your first couple albums and you're going out on tour across the country i'm sure a lot of bands are like screw these guys they can't oh yeah they They would say, screw up those guys until we played. Right. But how can you follow KISS, though, is what I mean. Well, yes, exactly. And after that, people in other bands would be very friendly to us. But initially, yeah.
you know without naming names there were bands that i can remember were walking to the stage the first show with with a band they'd be howling you know but that's great you know those are the times you do that being committed to something and saying, one of these days, I'll look back at this as the good old days. And we're in this to win it.
Yeah. I mean, whether it was other bands or people in the audience, it was always a battle. There's a book that I read a few years ago that came out. It was dealing with Kiss, Aerosmith.
cheap trick and stars how all four of you kind of came out at the same time all had some steam and mentioned some of the early Aerosmith kiss issues with the road crew and you know knives are being taken out and all that sort of thing did it get that heated between some of the guys sometimes our crew was very committed to us and our crew believed in what we were doing and they really were they were part of the, I was gonna say army. They were not going to let anyone sabotage us doing what we do.
that sometimes came down to you know somebody not wanting you to play as loud or turning off the lights and our crew didn't didn't appreciate that and uh they dealt with it perhaps differently than people deal with those kind of stuff today but right it was great it was great to have people who cared that much and it wasn't
frivolous it was because somebody was being unfair if somebody can go into the ring with you and you have to fight them with one hand tied behind your back they're not a champ you know I always believed go out there and do your absolute best. And then we have to go out and rise above it. But the idea of having somebody handicap you is it's unfair.
And certainly anybody who played with us would tell you we never did anything like that. If anything, we helped other bands. Was there ever any bands over the years through the 80s, 90s, 70s that challenged you guys? Where you went, we better... these guys are good yeah but it was so long ago i i mean there were some shows and this is ages ago there were some shows where bob seger and the silver bullet band were
on fire now is it anything like what we do no but it was going over really really well um uriah heep was a great great band interestingly You know, people talk about Deep Purple and so on. Uriah Heep was just a fantastic, fantastic band. And they had some nights where, you know, you're getting made up and you're doing your thing and getting dressed and you're going...
whoa, we better go out there and kick some ass. And that's great. That's the way it's supposed to be. Go out there and do your best. Be everything you can be. And if I deserve it, I'll rise above it. i read getty's book last year and he was very complimentary towards kiss and that's kind of a great you know early mid-70s mimic the kiss opening for rush yeah um
Rush opening for Kiss. Oh, Rush opening for Kiss. Oh, I thought it was the other way around. Oh, gosh, no. Oh, okay. We took them on their first tour. Oh, that's great. Okay. Yeah, I could show you a photo of, yeah, we took them. under our wing, so to speak. And they were great. We actually had shows when John Rotzi was still the drummer. And then when Neil joined. And they're great guys.
We had a ball. I mean, we just had so much fun together. Let's talk about when we get into the 80s. I was watching the other day with J.J. Jackson, the reveal of Kiss before Look It Up with no makeup. Now, we know the reasons why you guys did that, but still, here you are. first time, and I've used it as an example for my career, many times just reinventing. Well, we still want this. We are going full forward. It's like kiss without the makeup. Everybody knew.
this was a new band it wasn't a new costume or a new this is a new whole vibe took a lot of guts to do that well we were smart enough yeah it's really interesting because people think it was just done It was done pragmatically. It was done because we weren't doing well and people weren't relating to us the way they once did. They weren't buying the albums.
and maybe to some extent rightfully so. And when we did Creatures and that didn't take off, I had wanted to do that album without makeup because... i really felt people had reached a point where they were listening with their eyes and didn't like what they were seeing so creatures came out and really didn't do what it should have and at that point gene went along with it and understandably
he was the most reluctant to do it because, I mean, let's face it, in terms of persona, if I think of Kiss, I think of Gene's face. Sure, the demon. Yeah, he, I mean, he... he hit it out of the park with that one so um he finally went along with it and we took it off not because we were brilliant but we were savvy enough to know that um
What we were doing wasn't working. And that's a time to either reinvent yourself or find something else to do. So when we did look it up without makeup, all of a sudden we sold.
four times what we sold on creatures and I don't think that album is anywhere near as good as creatures so yeah and doing the taking the makeup off on MTV well it wasn't even I mean it wasn't kiss as you knew it there was no peter there was no ace basically you were seeing me and gene right out of makeup because and not not to take anything away from eric but
We had reached a point where we weren't the known commodity we once were. So, yeah, it was do or die. It's like everything else we've ever done. It's just do or die. it's either going to work or not and if at that point nobody was buying our music it just meant that we sucked you know if if if we can't exist without the makeup then we don't deserve to exist
I remember when I looked up album cover, I was just starting to get into Kiss. And I thought that Vinnie Vincent was ace because he had the same kind of hair. I don't know if it was a wig or whatever it was, but it was like, I looked kind of the same. Did you show up at any shows early on where there'd be posters of Kiss in makeup? Totally. The first show we did was in Portugal.
It was very, very strange to look across the stage and see Gene the same way he was during the soundcheck virtually. And yeah, the posters had us in makeup. I think when we first hit the stage, people were confused, to say the least. Is that the opening band? Yeah, what's going on? So yeah, it wasn't easy.
we just had to do it and could we compete with what we were with makeup of course not but people didn't want that anymore they needed a break from it and maybe we needed a reset um so that when we did it again it made sense but you jumped in like we mentioned gene with the demon persona and obviously a little bit of a
of a weird situation but the star child is the rock star of the band so you're pretty much the same guy just took the star off your face and it's still paul stanley right um i think uh yeah I had no qualms about taking it off because I didn't, I mean, did I create a persona? Yeah, but the persona was... A lot of me. So, yeah, taking it off was...
I'm still going to do the same stuff that people either love or hate. We sure, talking about quarantine earlier, we've done shows before. As you know, they have these giant kiss. The concerts, there's one called Kiss Cancer Goodbye. And everyone shows up and they, as a matter of fact, this year they did The Elder in its entirety live with Todd Kearns and Quesada and those guys. Not bad, it worked out all right.
Paul's like, okay, you know, but what I was going to say was, is that, is that you see these songs and see how they translate live. And the people love a lot of that era of a lot of the stuff that you didn't play live from this time frame. It all works. Let's put that in perspective. Diehard fans love it. People, no. If people loved it, it would have sold. So yes, it has a certain connection to the most diehard and rabid.
fans but as far as the general public they wouldn't know those songs sure you know so it's wonderful that people out there you anyone would want to do those songs. That's great. It does have a built-in and limited audience. But you jumped right in, though, with the songwriting. We mentioned Diane Warren prior, obviously Desmond Child.
every song that you guys released in the 80s was with desmond what great chemistry you had with him i love desmond our first well desmond's first hit was i was made for loving you right and um you know he's uh he had the best band in new york city i thought him desmond child and rouge just a killer killer killer band and uh he has all the success he deserves you know he's uh
he's written with or for a lot of people and deservedly so but that kept kiss totally you know we weren't leading the parade at that point we were in it but no no doubt about it we we were in survival mode we weren't we weren't breaking ground breaking wind you know um you know we we weren't We weren't innovators at that point. We were just trying to survive with the idea that at some point things will make sense. But what we were doing...
didn't work and needed to change. We talked about earlier, I mentioned quarantine doing turn on the night and saying it should have been so much of a big, if Bon Jovi did turn on the night, it probably would have went to number one. But you guys were behind the eight ball.
just because you were kissed yeah uh when you have a record company that barely tolerates you and wishes you would go away and are virtually up the but of a lot of bands who never became anything and um you know radio field people who aren't the age of my boots back then you know we were we were not welcomed or championed. And there was a lot of music that should have done so much better. I mean, they couldn't stop forever. I mean, that took off.
But every time I look at you, it should have been a much bigger song. And yeah, there were a lot of songs that had one of the more loved bands at the record label or elsewhere done.
well they would have done much better you know that's uh that's life i was going to mention when i was talking about the kiss cancer goes by i got sidetracked but we do a lot of our show based on the animalized uncensored concert as you know i've told you before i've seen it 9 000 times i don't know if you've ever watched it back but the your raps in between the songs are all-time classics you got to be careful saying them nowadays going into the nurse's office and then the jeans little baby
uh do you ever look back at that stuff or was that just kind of the normal guys are doing i don't look back at it yeah um it was all stream of consciousness yeah and um I've seen some of the stuff with lasers in the audience. Hey, schmuck. Yeah. But that's rightfully so. I mean, I'm a front man of a band. Somebody's shining something in your face. Like, dude, stop.
yeah um you know i wanted to command the audience i wanted to bring them in i wanted to be an evangelical preacher i wanted to be so much more than just the the singer And yeah, did it pretty well. I mean, here's the guy we're sitting here. You're obviously kind of a soft-spoken guy when we're talking, but there is literally on YouTube, 20-minute clips.
of just Paul Stanley stage raps. I mean, you're at that point where people are listening to this. Well, it's damn good. And the difference between me sitting here. is that I'm talking to you. If I speak to 20,000, 50,000, 100,000 people, well, my logic tells me I should be 20,000, 50,000, or 100,000 times bigger. That's how you grab people. You want the person in the last row to feel that you're talking to them and singing to them.
Yeah, it's always been, gee, you're so quiet and this and that. Well, you want me to stand on the table and yell? You know? I mean, yeah, I can do it, but it's... We're different people under different circumstances. At least I always step into a persona when you get on stage. And you should. And who you are on stage shouldn't be an act. It should be...
a refined version of at least a part of you. Was there anybody that was an influence? You mentioned you wanted to be an evangelical, am I saying this wrong? Evangelical. Evangelical, thank you, sir. Was there anybody in a rock and roll band? Yes. Yeah, I saw Humble Pie. Steve Marriott. Yeah, I grew up in a blessed time where any weekend you could go see for three bucks.
hendrix with noah redding and mitch mitchell you could see derek and the dominoes led zeppelin humble pie you know you name them you it was every weekend so i saw humble pie with peter frampton when he was still in the band uh opening for derek and the dominoes and steve maria just blew me away he sang every intro to songs and
He would be singing to the people in the balcony, talking to them. And I saw that and I went, that's what I want to do. I want to be that guy. I want to be that guy who holds the audience between songs. As we start to wind down, we mentioned the reason why you took the makeup off. Same story, putting it back on again. Was it an obvious thing? Was it a chance you had to take? I think, just speaking for myself.
Really, for me, it was like, who knows how long everyone's going to last. Now, this, granted, was 95. But, you know, God forbid one of us isn't around anymore. why don't we go back and revisit this? Why don't we put it back together and see if we've learned anything and if we can move forward and come back to it maybe smarter. so yeah it was really wow you know if not now when and um that's what we did we it felt like okay can't roll the dice on the future
Let's do this now and see if we're better for it. And we got Peter and Ace back, decided to do it again. Were you surprised at how huge the reaction was? Yes. Yeah, the only person who knew that was going to happen was Doc. Doc McGee. Why did he know that and you didn't feel it? Because he's Doc McGee. Gotcha. You know, I certainly was thinking, yeah, we'll go and do a couple of...
theaters and feel this out. He goes, no, we're going to open in tiger stadium. Oh my gosh. Like what? You know, um, he knew better than us. He knew better than us. And, and, uh, it was. magical moves it was i'm glad we did it i'm glad we did it because it led to everything that came after sure so yeah i was i was very very happy we did it i i don't like living in what ifs and
maybes and could have and would have. So it was a good place to go. And it kind of led us to the same, you know, to the same dark alley. So we had to keep moving. But once we put the makeup on, it became very clear to us that disbanding just because we don't want to do this anymore. We're far beyond that. And since we've reestablished the four personas characters, well, we don't want to give that up. You know, we worked too hard building it.
mothering it, taking care of it to suddenly throw it away. So at that point it was like, well, let's keep going. Michael Keaton was a great Batman. So was George Clooney. Val Kilmer was pretty, you know, so, so yeah, it became, it became kisses bigger than and always should be and should have been kisses bigger than the individuals.
Last few things. I'm not just saying this because you're one of the greatest front men and rock and roll singers of all time. Dude, what the hell were you doing in the 80s? Your vocals are so high and clear. And you say it quite a few times, but I just want to get it.
documented you said that was effortless if you're thinking about my way or something i could do that i did it all day i mean i would go in the studio and sing my way or hell to hold you for hours and just because i wanted something you know it um once i discovered technique you know rather than being taught it once i found my way there it became effortless in a way that I abused it. It became, why not? It became, gee, let's see how high I can sing.
Yeah, I listen to some of that stuff now and I go, Jesus, that's, you know, but then I'll listen to Kiss Unplugged, I'll listen to I Still Love You and go, that's pretty good, you know, and that makes sense. Because there's dynamics in it. Just to go out there and squeal is, yeah, it's pretty amazing, but is it really necessary? And does it sell the song to its best?
i still love you absolutely and again that was effortless you know breath control and and and pitch you know that's not that's not something most people keep forever no i'm i'm Am I the singer I once was? Of course not. Is any athlete what they once were? No. That's something you come to grips with and either alter how you sing.
Or you drop songs or drop keys. That's it. You know, I remember one of my friends, a big, big singer saying, you know, if we drop this key any further, it'll be on cellos. You know, it's like, so. Somebody said to me, and I loved it, a guitar player in another band. I was saying, yeah, you know, I'm not singing like, you know, I did, you know, I'm trying to do this, but I can't quite do what I did. And he goes, you have nothing to prove.
you did it yeah and you have to reach that point yeah as a musician or an athlete where you or you know a wrestler whatever you go you know i did it and uh yeah i list i I listen to some of that stuff and I go, wow. And all I can go is, yeah, I did it. Would you ever do what Gene's doing and go out with a band like he did in 2007-8? No. I could go out and play my songs, but to do Kiss songs, you know, purely Kiss songs or mostly that I wouldn't want to do.
i i don't want somebody to be gene gene is the best gene i know you know and uh no the idea of i want to get you know Bob Schwartz to come out and sing God of Thunder, you know, it's like, so teach his own, but I know Gene is varying some of the songs in his set list, but. That doesn't really, touring, doing that doesn't appeal to me. Doing a show, couple of shows in LA and stuff like that, sure. So there's a chance you would do something like that. Oh yeah. That's great. Yeah.
But the idea of running around the country, not appealing. So we got the avatars in 27. We mentioned Dressed to Kill, 50th anniversary. box set whatever it's going to be anything else in the pipeline for for kiss i'm sure there's a dozen things but anything else that you want to there's always stuff um i'm just not the person to say well we're doing this and it doesn't happen right you know um
There's always stuff in the pipeline. If I tell you about the, you know, the Kiss Vegas thing, yeah, 2027, it's in Vegas. If I tell you about something else and it doesn't happen. I'd rather, how can I put it? The truth is good enough. Or at least what I know to be, the facts are good enough. Last question for you. What's the thing you're most proud about?
Kiss, and what's the thing you miss most about being on tour with Kiss? The thing I miss most is the audience. That appreciation that works both ways. you know the word is reciprocity what what um that that mutual kind of love that um i've felt with an audience there's nothing that can take the place of that you know the gratitude and joy and uh commitment that goes back and forth nothing can take the place of that so do i miss that
Yeah, but I don't yearn for it. That's the difference. You know, if you yearn for something, you're probably not happy with what you're doing. But do I miss it? course how could you not miss it there's there's nothing that's ever going to be that good and we're both most proud that you are of kiss the legacy of kiss 50 years. 50 years of doing what you love. 50 years of doing what I love against all odds and regardless of what anyone ever thought, good or bad, doing what I wanted to do.
not always loved, not always successful, but no apologies. It's great talking to you, man. Five times. Next time I will bring the green jacket. Yeah, bring the green jacket. Thanks, man. Hey, of course.