Talk Is Jericho Baby Talk Is Jericho Alright, welcome to Talk Is Jericho. It's the part of Thunder and Rock and Roll and hey, you know what last Friday was? July 6th to be exact. It was 36 years ago on July 6th, 1982 that Metallica recorded the No Life to Leather demo at a little studio in Tuston, California called Shatto East Studio. Yeah, one of the most famous bands in Rock and Roll history, they're very first little EP 36 years ago.
So Tuston, California is an orange county, California, not far from Disneyland. And what's so special about this demo is that it features original Metallica bassist Ron McGovney and what's so special about tonight's talk is Jericho is it features original Metallica bassist, Ron McGovney. No Life to Leather featured hit the lights, the mechanics, motorbreath, seeking destroy, metal mullet, jump in the fire and of course, Phantom Lord.
And to mark this killer anniversary, once again, I've got the original OG Metallica bass player Ron McGovney on the show today. He was in Metallica with James and Lars and Dave Mustaine all the way back in 1982. And Ron's got some incredible stories about how Metallica got started from how he and James Hatfield met and became friends in junior high to starting up their own bands and Ron's parents garage to meeting Lars Ulrich to Dave Mustaine joining his guitar player.
He's got stories with their first gigs right down to how Ron got them on the bill at the whiskey, a go-go with Saxon. It was Metallica's second show ever. Ron's also talking about being replaced in Metallica by the amazing Cliff Burton, how that all really went down and why Ron wasn't all surprised when it happened. He's a great guy, he's a nice guy. Ron McGovney coming up next and also coming up very soon is Fauzi's summer tour.
We're starting Thursday, tomorrow, July 12th at the Rock USA festival in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. And we're doing a bunch of other festival dates before the official Judas Rising tour gets started up again in August with Adelidas Way, the stir and stone broken, joining us this time around, Fauzirock.com for all ticket information and all VIP meet and great information. We got one of the greatest meet and greet you all we're going to see. We do a mini set for you, a little concert for you VIP years.
We take pictures, we sign stuff, we hang out. So come see us before the show at one of the best VIP meet and greet to the business. Go to Fauzirock.com for all that information. And like I say, we're doing a little round of festivals this week starting on the 12th in Oshkosh, then on the 13th we go to the Kedot Rock Festival in Rukodot, Wisconsin. 14th is the Peoria River Fund in Prairie, Illinois. 15th is Belvedere, Illinois at the Apollo Theater.
Then we pack it up and head over the pond to Europe starting at the Feson Festival in Hungary on July 26th and we're going to Prague, the Rock of Ages Festival, Zurich, Rock Planet in Italy, Slovenia, Vokin in Germany, Berlin, Bohemäša, Femberg, Spain, Alcatraz, Festival in Belgium. Then we finish it up at Bloodstock in England. Then we come back to the States for the start of the Judas Rising Tour Friday, August 24th in Atlanta, Georgia at Smith's Old Bar.
We're hitting Huntsville, Clarksville, Little Rock, Joliet, Omaha, Des Moines. Many apples, Fargo, St. Louis, Indian apples, Fort Wayne, Columbus, Cincinnati, Louisville, Charlotte, Jacksonville, North Carolina, Huntington, Greenville, South Carolina, Savannah. Lake Boenervista, the House of Blues, Tampa, Florida, and Fort Lauderdale, Florida. All that information, once again, on FuzzRock.com. We'll also do the Rock Allegiance show in Camden, New Jersey, October 6th.
So go check that out and stay with us here as we check out the early Metallica and original Metallica bass player, Ron McGoverney, right here on Talk is Jericho. All right, so we're here in Winston Salem on the back of the bus. And here is Ron McGoverney, who I met at the Metallica show in Atlanta. And of course you are the original bass player from Metallica. Do you go see the band quite a bit? It was cool to see you there.
Whenever they come around, they'll call me and tell me what's going on and all those same and stuff. But it's not like it was back in the 80s when we used to go hang out and drink and party. It's more of a family. It's a family vibe now. But that is kind of how it is now. Like you said, just the way they tour two weeks on, two weeks off. But they're also very like Metallica family oriented. And obviously you're a part of that. So it's cool that they still kind of include you in those things.
Well, if you want to look at Metallica as a family, if you've ever seen the Chevy Chase vacation movies, I'm the cousin Eddie of Metallica. You know, I kind of show up. It's like, oh no. Oh yeah. I know what the hell here is. Well, not really like that. It's just, you know, I kind of feel that way. Sometimes, you know, people come up and meet me. Oh, you're the guy before Cliff, right? Yeah, you know. It's kind of like that. In a way, it's almost like Pete Best with the Beatles.
Exactly. Yeah. Right. That's kind of like the guy who was in the band. Yeah. But I think my role back then was a lot easier than, let's say, Jason or Rob having to live up to Cliff. Now, you know, Jason went through that whole thing. Rob goes through it all the time. And I never had to have that because, you know, I was before that. But you were replaced by Cliff Burton, right? Which was nothing, no shame. No. And that's it.
But that was not, I mean, my role in Metallica was never to be the full time, I mean, full time, yes. But I mean, long term, basically, because James and I were, you know, we were friends from junior high school and, you know, we had a band after, you know, after we graduated and, you know, we started in my garage and it was called, it was called leather charm. And we played a lot of covers. We played Iron Maiden covers. We played Hollywood Tees by the band Girl from Phil Collins. Mm-hmm.
And, uh, which is funnily to see the think of Hetfield playing the girls. Oh, yeah. It's like Black Cadillac from the original Quiet Riot. Just a lot. And we had, I mean, we're kind of glam, which is kind of funny. If you look at the original, the very first Metallica pictures, James is still wearing his leather charm stuff with the little, you know, wrist band and the tiger stripe shirt and stuff like that. He never wants to look at that stuff. Right. Well, let's talk about the sea.
So this is in California. Was it down here? Yeah, it was in, uh, James and I went to high school and junior high school in Downey. I lived in a city next door called Norwalk. And but I did go to Downey schools. Okay. So we started the band in, my parents had, um, four houses all in the same property. And what happened was there was a, um, freeway that was going to take our houses and be, our house that was going to be demolished.
So once they started moving everyone out, I asked my mom, I said, well, can we just have the middle house just to practice, you know, band stuff? She said, you guys can live there until they kick us out, basically. So we took the garage and we turned it into, quote, unquote, the studio. And that's where we started leather charm. How did you meet James? Um, junior high school. So what was it that you just, you know, kid in your classroom? Yeah, I just kid in the class.
But, you know, I didn't really know him that well in junior high school. But when we went, when we transferred or transitioned from junior high to high school, kind of the kids from the junior high as they kind of know each other. And we just kind of, everybody left. And we were just kind of the guys there that we all kind of knew each other. Right. You know, so it was James and a few other friends and stuff. And that would be the fall of 1977. Wow. So long so.
So yeah, so you're looking 40 years ago, at this point. But I had an Elvis Presley had just died over the summer. And I had a big Elvis sticker on my notebook. And he just made fun of that left. Right. And he's like, yeah, he was the guy with the, he was the guy with the Elvis sticker, you know. But I'm like, yeah, you just had Errol Smith or whatever on his peachy. And I was like, yeah, Errol Smith sucks. We just built back and forth. But, you know, we both liked music.
No, we just kind of, you know, we bonded in that. What was he like? Was he a shy kid or was he? Oh, yeah. I mean, he was, he was real shy. Never, never. The James that filled that people know now, you would never think it was the same guy. Very shy. With John. But he was a music kid. I mean, he knew music. You could talk to him about anything, about anything in music. And he would talk about this band, that band. And I would bring up this band.
Or because I was into, I was more into like singer, songwriters like Jim Croci and Neil Young and things like that. And he'd be like, no, man, you got to listen to you up, foe. And, you know, you got to listen to scorpions. And this one, like, okay. So he kind of got me into the heavier, you know, stuff like that. Were you playing at that point in time? I had a, when I was in high school, I got a less Paul. And I had taken guitar lessons when I was about 12 to like 14.
So kind of classical stuff. So I was playing guitar. And so James was in a cover band called Obsession when we were in high school. And they played like communication breakdown, Heaven and Hell, you know, just the standard covers of the day. And he was like, you know, I'm tired of doing this. I want to do my own thing. I want to write my own music. You know, he said, I already played guitar. Why don't you play bass? I'm like, bass, what? Huh? I don't, I don't know anything about playing bass.
He's like, well, let's just go down to the music center. No, down the music center was just downtown down. So we went down there and I picked it up. I'm like, what the hell to do with this? You know, really? Because I really, really paid attention to bass players. I kind of always looked at the guitar player and never really listened as a bass player. So he said, well, here, we'll just do this. So we practiced in my room for a while.
And so he kind of just taught me, you know, what to do and stuff. And that's how we kind of got our feel for it. I kind of, I kind of never really came to me and tell you the truth because I always thought of guitar players. I always thought of Michael Shanker, you know, and Matthias Jabs. And I was thinking, you know, lead guitar players.
I was thinking Rudolph Shanker, you know, I was never, if you listen to someone like Rush or something, you know, they're following the drums, you know, and I always wanted to follow the guitar player, you know, and that's not, I'm unless you're an ACD's year or something. That's really not, you know, what they, what was he wanted. Right. You know, so he kind of got me away from that and, you know, show me, you know, what I should do.
So when you played with leather charm, are you guys eventually formed that band? Was it mostly original stuff? It was, we came, we had one original song, a song called Hit the Lights. And the other songs were all copies. And that whole band just kind of folded and- Did you play gigs at all? We never played. We never got Alie Grodge with leather charm.
But, and then I said, and James said, you know, I want to, I want to just be a singer, you know, and I want to, I want to find a band, you know, we're, he's living with me at this point, you know, in our house. And he said, I just want to be a singer, you know, I want to find a band, you know, because I go, okay. So I just kind of backed out and did my own thing and he started, he started auditioning people and one day he brings over Lars.
I got that, I had met before one time, I had met him at a Judas Priest concert. And James, James brought him out of the crowd and they had no shirts on and they'd been up like, like sweating their asses off. And they stunk like crap and I was like, oh, this is Lars, I'm like, okay. I just ran into Lars like, yeah, I just like, yeah, okay, Lars, yeah, that's for James knew him, apparently, but I didn't know him.
So he brought him, he brought him over and, and he said, well, he's a drummer, I'm like, okay, cool. So he brought over his drum set eventually. And so he started playing and I was like, I don't know about that. I don't, I don't think he's too good. Because Lars basically just decided he wanted to form a band and put together a band. Yeah, he seemed to me that he had just, just per the moment, decided to be a drummer.
But this kid, he was from Europe and he knew all these bands, he hung out with all these bands in Europe and stuff and he was like, motorhead this and diamondhead this. So I'm like, wow, it's cool, but you know, I don't think he's that good on drums, you know. I just kind of backed out of it and they tried to, they tried out other bass players and guitar players and stuff to get this band going.
And one time they got a call, we got a call at my house and I answered the phone and it was a guitar player and he says, he says, yeah, I got four more or some stacks. I got 17 guitars and I'm like, whoa, huh? Okay, I said, James or Lars, you guys take this call because this guy's heads not going to fit to the door. And that was Dave Mustaine. And Dave Mustaine came in and he plugged in and he was just warming up and he was like, holy crap, this guy's good. This guy's really good.
And they had another bass player there for about a week or two and this guy couldn't keep up. And I was just sitting there with nothing to do and where they're playing hit the lights. And he said, Ron, show him how to play hit the lights. So I took his bass and I'm like, so we played hit the lights and they kind of, well, why don't you go home? Hey, were you being in the band? To me. I said, okay, I guess I got nothing else to do.
Right. But I see, like I said, it was never really, I never really tried out to be in the band and it was, it was just something that, you know, I was there and it was available and it was never going to be a long term thing until they found something, somebody, you know, that for that vibe. Right. What did you think about the music? Because I mean, you can hit the lights if you tell them 1981 or 82. It's so fast. Like now it's just, you know, everybody plays fast. So you just take it as it is.
But at that time, nobody was playing music like that. Right. What did you guys, what did you think about that? I thought it was, you know, I had heard Motorhead and, you know, stuff like that. I thought it was, you know, about that speed and stuff. But the, the riffs were a lot more intricate. You know, there's a lot more changes and everything and then, and then Dave brought in, um, jump at the fire, you know, and that brought a whole different vibe to the whole thing.
And I thought, well, you know, this is kind of pretty good. But we only had two songs and we wanted to start gigging and stuff and we was practicing gigging. But so we started playing all these diamondhead songs. Was that Lars' idea? Yeah. You know, we started playing and, and diamondhead, to me, was kind of a Led Zeppelinish, you know, kind of long songs that kind of went on and on and on. There's a Led Zeppelin.
And then we played Blitzkrieg and Killing Time and other songs that, you know, come, we kind of dropped away. But, you know, we had enough stuff with the, I mean, especially with the diamondhead song being so long, we had enough for a show, you know. What was the dynamic like in the band at that point in time when you guys were jamming? It was pretty good, actually, at that point. It was, you know, we were practicing every day, three, four hours a day and, you know, everybody was getting good.
I remember we would turn off our lights in the studio just so we could know what it would be like if the lights went out. We could still play with the lights went out. Just in case. Yeah, just in case of power out. Yeah, there's, yeah, like the lights went out. Can we still play this song? Yeah. We turn the lights out. It was like was Dave, the leader, Lars the leader, James the leader, everybody just kind of throwing their own two cents in.
Well, it was Dave and James kind of, you know, they worked together pretty good, but Lars is the, the master of putting the riff together in the correct order, you know, and he can, he, he belts out riffs with his, with his voice. And hey, play this, die, die, die, you know, whatever. And some of you will copy it and you'll say, yeah, we'll take that and we'll put it here or we'll put it here.
And so we had, they had all these riff tapes of all these riffs, you know, this riff and that riff and nothing ever, you know, if you put it together, right? If you listen to it, it wouldn't make any sense. But if you go and pick and choose ones, you know, to put in certain songs, it all made sense. But, and we actually took some of our leather charm songs, took those apart, took some of the riffs and made a song called No Remorse.
And so, no, no remorse if you listen to it, it's like, there was a song called Handsome Ransome that we had the dan and dun dun dun dun dun dun. You know, that's Handsome Ransome. That's that's that's that's that's Handsome Ransome. And then we had a song called Let's Go Rock and Roll. Anyway, dan, dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. And that was Let's Go Rock and Roll. So we kind of took other songs and took them apart. Peace them together.
Yeah. It's interesting because when I had Lars on this show and he was talking about how they, he's always, they've always written songs that way, even up to, to, not death, like, then, hardwired. And that Lars puts this and changes this. It's interesting that you say that because that's exactly what Lars said. We've always done it this way, cutting, basing, frankenstein them together to see which songs work best in different orders, you know.
So tell us about when, uh, when you guys are jamming and you got all this material. What's the first gig like? How was the first gig? First gig was, um, March 14th of 1982 at a little club called Radio City in Anaheim, California. And right now it was in a little strip mall and next door was a club called Woodstock. So we ended playing Woodstock later, but Radio City was our first gig and, you know, we go hit the likes, boom, boom, boom. And then day breaks two strings on this guitar.
No other backup. So he's sitting there changing the strings and we're just sitting there like, what do we do? Yeah, we stopped. It's like, what are we going to do now? We're just going to sit here in the way it's set, sit there and wait for him to tune it back up. How many people were there? Oh, maybe about 40, 50, something like that. Yeah, but I mean, most of them were, you know, comps from us. They're all like friends. Yeah. How did you get that gig?
Uh, I think we just went over there with a demo and they just put us in there in any slot. It was like probably a Monday night, you know, something like that. But yeah, it wasn't really good. So when Dave fixed the strings and then you started over again? Yeah, we started over again. We hit the lights and we were playing sucking my love from Diamond E. Other to playing that at that point, you know, that was the first time that we ended dropping because it, you know, we had too many songs.
We started every time we'd get a new song, we'd drop a diamond head song, get a new song, drop a diamond head song. Yeah. But they kept what we kept, am I evil for some reason? We kept on playing that. People wanted to hear that one. So long one too. Yeah, we kept that one. Well then when you do the rate of city gig and does it start becoming more frequent that you're doing shows and is there something to be a buzz about the band? It started.
We'd play that gig and we were supposed to play the Woodstock on the 26, which was a couple of weeks later. And in the meantime, within those couple of weeks, we found out that Saxon was going to be playing at the whiskey of Go-Go on their denim and leather tour. So we're like, man, we got to get on that. So we had cut a, not really, well, we put out a four track demo. I'm trying to think of what songs I'm thinking. It's Blitzkrieg, Killing Time, Hit the Lights and Jump of the Fire.
This wasn't the famous No Life to Let The Demo. This is the first song demo just to give to people. And to see how people thought. So I said, you know what? I'm going to go down to the whiskey. I'm going to try to get us on that bill. So about four o'clock in the afternoon, I'm standing out there in Hollywood on the corner of Vine and Sunset and Vine. There's a whiskey Go-Go and I'm standing there with a cassette in my hand and I'm looking up, what the hell am I going to do now?
I'm going to get in here. Just at that point. I look up the hill and here it comes Tommy and Nikki from Motley Crew. And I had known them because I followed Motley Crew around. I mean, I went and saw their shows all the time and they knew me. I took pictures at that time. I used to take pictures from Motley Crew. And I was standing there and they come down the hill. First thing he asked me, he's like, hey Ron, I'm like, yeah, he's like, you got any two? No, no. Don't do that man. It's all right.
It's all right. It's all right. So I'm like, they said, well, what are you doing here? I said, well, I'm trying to get my band in to play that section show. I said, yeah, we heard about that show, but we're too big now. We can't really play that show. But I'll get you in to talk to the girl up there. So took me in, went up there, gave her a demo tape. And she called me back a few days later and said, yeah, you guys are on with Saxon on the 27th.
And the 26th, we were supposed to play at the Woodstock, but Saxon was playing the 26th and 27th. So we go down on the 26th, we go down to the Woodstock to play, like five o'clock in the afternoon, and they wanted to put us on at like after midnight or something. We said, screw it, we're not playing. We're going back to Hollywood. We're getting those C Saxon. So we went back and saw Saxon. And then we played the next night. We played two shows with Saxon.
So our second show was opening for Saxon. At the whiskey. At the whiskey, which was pretty cool. That's pretty cool. I was that gig. That was pretty awesome. Ozzy was there. Randy Rhodes had just been killed. And Ozzy was sitting in the back over there, kind of. But he was sitting there and the guys from Motley Crew showed up. I remember standing there between songs. I saw Nikki Six walk up upstairs. He's like, gives me like a high thought hype, you know, a shock. A shock like that. Yeah, yeah.
The Aloha sign. And it's like, yeah, he's my hero. Nikki Six is watching me play. And I'm usually watching him play. Right, right, right. Was it seen like back then, you mentioned Motley Crews, what other bands did you follow back then? Oh, well, Ratt was always playing. They played, you know, all over the place. Armored Saint was playing all the time. I would talk to Armored Saint was like the band that everyone loved back to that point. Yeah, everybody loved Armored Saint.
I mean, their whole post apocalyptic, you know, road warrior kind of thing was cool. And we got along with those guys really good. And the suns that strip was the place to be. Oh, it was. Yeah, but you see, I lived in the suburbs. So it was kind of a place you could go to, but you could leave and go back to your normal life. You didn't have to live there and be in it all the time. But Ratt was always there. They'd call us up. Ratt would call us up, hey, you want to play with it?
We ended up playing with this rat fight four or five times. Metallica. Yeah. Yeah, they would call us up. They'd say, hey, you want to open for us on blah, blah, blah. And we'd say, sure, and then we find out later that they thought that we suck so bad that it made them sound so much better. So, you know, that's the way it was back then. Yeah, I mean, yeah, everybody, it was a glam thing.
And then we get up there and we just look like the Ramones, you know, getting up there in jeans and t-shirts and they're like, what the hell is this? This is fit. Yeah. How about the name? What was it like when you guys were trying to think of a name? I remember other names going around like Thunder **** and Red Vett. And Red Vett? Yeah, Red Vett. Like, you know, what? Red F*** is pretty awesome too. Yeah. I don't know.
Oh, yeah, that's how he's Lars stole that name from Ron Quintana from San Francisco. He was doing that fanzine. And he was trying to think of a name for the fanzine and he told Lars. And he's like, no, Metallica, he wanted to call the fanzine Metallica in Lars. Like, no, that's a bad name. Call it heavy metal mania. So Lars deals Metallica. But once again, like, you know, Metallica is such an iconic name, but when you first heard it, it was kind of weird.
Yeah. You know, we first really think like, what the hell is a Metallica? Yeah, I know. I had one of the original Metallica shirts and I was at the Trubotor bar or something. And David Lee Ross, it's next to me. And he's like, what's up, man? You know, now David Lee Ross. I see the guy sure he says Metallica, he's like, what is that man? Like, it's our band. He's like, wow, cool man. So it's like, yeah, David Lee Ross. Those Metallica is now. I like his day. He gave us the thumbs up, yeah.
Yeah. So as the band continues, how many shows are you doing at this point in time? Is it still very sporadic or does he ever put together a tour? It was pretty much every week or every other week. We were getting, you know, we were playing Orange County clubs on the LA clubs and stuff. And then later in the fall, we got invited to play shows in San Francisco. And that's where things kind of got crazy. You know, in what way?
Because we, you know, we were used to getting off stage and or having a, ending a song. And you can hear the ice and people's drinks. You know, it's like crickets and frogs, you know, down in LA. But we go to San Francisco and there's people that actually know who we are. You know, this was after we had released No Life to a Leather and people are standing around the corner. We know waiting to see us.
I'm like, I'm driving my dad's 1969 Ford Ranger pickup truck with a camper shell and these guys are in the back calling a, you know, trailer full of equipment. And just not used to this at all. You know, we were just used to being shunned. Right. And then all of a sudden you've got people actually want to come see you, which was strange. Yeah. Yeah. What was it like, I'm as far as like the party scene you guys doing drink after every show or? Well, we drank during the show. During the show?
Yeah, it was, you know, liquid courage pretty much. And we had to, I remember, I remember drinking a, we drank peppermint schnapps. I'll tell you why we drank peppermint schnapps because when I was about 16, I was looking around in my father's garage and I found this open bottle of peppermint schnapps and I'm like, what's this? So I tried it. I'm like, heck yeah.
So we started, all of us started drinking that stuff, but we get the half-paints and we put them in our back pockets and we just down when, and I remember being, hey, I had to go down these stairs to get on stage at the whiskey and it was pitch black and I'm like, I felt, I fell and I thought, oh my god, I'm going to break this base in half. I thought I was. Yeah, to get in the stage, you got to walk down the stairs.
Yeah, walk these little stairs and it was pitch black and I'm carrying this base. It's like spinal tap, you know, hula, cleavly kind of thing. And you go down there and I trip and I'm like, oh crap. Bam, you know. Yeah, we did that a lot. We had beer on stage, we had pictures of someone, obviously we went old enough to drink, but people would buy us beer, you know. Was everybody still cool at that point in time? Was it in the band or they got a little bit loaded? Everybody drinks other nice?
Yeah, everybody was okay, but, you know, well, Lars and James, you know, we all kind of, you know, we all got along and we drank, but we didn't get completely ripped out of our mind. No, Dave, he would sometimes get just so loaded that he was out of control and it was, it wasn't good whenever he got like that. It wasn't. Do you like, is there a story, you poured beer on your base once or something like that? Yeah, he decided he didn't like me.
So I wasn't there, my friend let him into the house and he just took, he just took a beer and just poured it right down into my base and, and, why did he decide he didn't like you? I don't know because I guess, you know, those guys kind of, they kind of looked up to him, but I tell him, hey man, you're actually like an asshole. Oh gosh.
Yeah, I would tell him, look, you know, you're actually like an asshole, don't come over to my house, don't destroy my stuff, you know, I would tell him, but those guys, they wouldn't say anything to him. So he didn't like, yeah. He didn't like that, you know, I told him what I thought. But yeah, so he decided he didn't like me and, you know, there was a time when he was, well, he's already said this in interviews anyway that he was dealing weed and, he brought it over to my house.
He brought it because he was afraid to leave it at his house because, you might steal it from him. And then he said, hey, I'm going to go to my house and I'm like, no, I don't think so. But so he got these pit bulls and he lived in an apartment. I don't know, we just going to do it pit bulls in an apartment, but he brought them over to my house and I was in the shower and James came to the door and he had these pit bulls and James said, you can't have those dogs here.
They started jumping on scratching my car and he said, hey, you're scratching Ron's car and Dave, apparently he'd been drinking or something all day, but he got pissed and I heard a commotion. I jumped out of the shower and I'm in the towel and there are nose to nose and then all of a sudden Dave punched his James right in the face and I was like, what the hell? And I jumped on Dave, his back and he threw me over into a coffee table.
Wow. Then we said, you're out of the band, we kicked him out of the band right there. So we loaded up all his stuff and took off. Next day he came back, can I be back in the band? Okay, well, I guess we don't have another guitar player, so yeah, you're back in the band. Did you play on the metal master, metal massacre? On the very first metal massacre, the very first pressing with Lloyd Grant and stuff, James played bass on it because I wasn't there for some reason.
But the second pressing is basically the one from No Life To Lether. It's the same one from No Life To Lether. So No Life To Lether had hit the lights, no remorse, what else is on it? I'm not sure it was on it. It had hit the lights, jumping the fire and motor breath, mechanics, Dave's song. Which later became for us then. Right. Metal Malaysia. And oh my gosh, another seven songs on there. Oh, there's quite a few of the songs that ended up on Kill'em All.
Yeah, the only songs that's on Kill'em All is Whip Lash and No Remorse. So Phantom Lord is on it. Phantom Lord is on it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you think of these songs as you guys are creating? Like as Lars and James writing them in the same key, here's how it goes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. See, I was the only one that had a full-time job. Where were you? So my parents had a truck repair company. And as a matter of fact, James' father had a trucking company across the street.
Wow. So they knew each other from business. And so I was the only one with a full-time job. And they would sit there all day and create music. And then I get home from work and they say, here, here's how it goes. You know, play this. And I'd play the song and then we practiced for a few hours. And the next couple days they'd add another song. And that's the way it kind of worked. When you went to San Francisco, were you hanging out with the bands up there?
Not really. We didn't really know anybody up there. You know, we didn't know any of the... And his exodus and those type of bands didn't come to land. Well, exodus, they showed up to... they got on the bill with us. They opened up for us as a matter of fact, when I was in the band. And I remember Kirk Hammett. He was in exodus. And he came up to me and he said, man, I love Metallica. You know, you guys are awesome. That's it. Man, I watched your band. You guys are awesome, too.
You know, little did I know. Right. It's interesting that there's a band like Exodus playing that type of heavy music the same way that Metallica was. It was kind of the scene spreading at that point in time. Right? So when did you start... I guess, when did you hear about Cliff Burton and when did that start going on? I mean, were you in Metallica for a lot longer? Was there more stuff that happened? That happened in... I want to say in the fall sometime in 1982.
His band Trauma came to play at the Trubidor. And we didn't... Brian Slagel from Metalblade had invited us to go watch them. So we were all sitting there watching them and I'm like, well, you know, kind of music. Not Mike kind of thing. But all of a sudden, you know, it was me and James and Lars. And all of a sudden Cliff starts going into this solo. And there's like looking at him with their eyes or wide open. And I'm looking at them. And they're looking at him. And I'm looking. I'm like, help.
And this is the guy. This is it. And this is it. So I kind of knew right at that point. I'm like, yeah, this is the guy they're going to go after. I can feel it. I mean, he was just a thrash and, you know, head banging crazy, awesome bass player. What did you think of him? I thought he was awesome too. He's doing stuff that I can never do, you know. Right. So as soon as I saw the reaction, you know, I kind of knew. I kind of knew and, you know, I played several gigs after that with them.
And they never actually told me, hey, you know, we're going to get, you know, we want to get this guy. You know, I kind of heard through the great vine. And, but I already knew who it was going to be. And I remember one time playing in San Francisco and Cliff was there watching us. And he was standing there out in the rain. And I asked him, hey, I'm like, hey, man, do you want to ride? Because he was standing there and he was soaking wet. He was like, nah, nah, I'm cool.
You know, but, you know, I was going to get him right back to wherever he wanted to go. But, you know, I kind of knew he was going to be the guy. So, but that was never my role. It was your same. Yeah, it was never my role to be the long term. And as you know that at the time. I knew that. I knew that. But, you know, you kind of put it in the back of your mind because you keep playing shows. And you're learning new songs. And you're playing. And, you know, you're playing all these gigs.
You're going to San Francisco. And then, you know, you see him playing. And I'm like, well, oh, yeah, I'm not going to be. Yeah, that wasn't what I was going to do. And then, you say that because your skill level wasn't at the same as theirs or your desire or passion or... Yeah, I guess. Well, kind of both, I guess, because I wanted to be a motorcycle mechanic. I wanted to ride dirt bikes in the desert all the time. That's what I wanted to do.
You know, I mean, I remember going, I'd be out of glamourous, out of the sand dunes. And I'd be riding. I'm like, man, it's so good to get away from those guys. You know, this is what I want to do. I want to be out on the road. You know, I want to be away from that. I want to... I don't want the fighting. I don't want the arguing. I don't want the bickering. You know, this is just like a relationship. You know, I mean, it could be male females. It's the same kind of thing.
It's like, I don't need this. I don't want to be in that. But, you know, I didn't ever... My whole thing was never to be a rock star. I was never my intention. I was just helping James out. All I wanted to do really was getting leather charm, play some backyard parties, drink some kegs, you know... Pick up some chicks. Yeah, that's it. That's all I wanted to do. But then when we got to play Hollywood clubs, I'm like, wow, I get to play places I've seen other bands.
You know, I see Motley crew up there. And I'm on the same stage, you know, as the doors played. Right. Or, you know, and stuff playing the same place. Yeah. I thought looked at more of a historical kind of... It still goes to this day. The first time we played the whiskey was the same thing. And we've been fortunate to play three or four times since. But it's like, it's the frickin whiskey, man. I mean, it's one of those places. I know. Did you mostly just tour in California?
Did you guys ever do road trips outside? No, we just did San Francisco, Illinois, Orange County. When you went to San Francisco, you were in your dad's... Yeah, in 1969. 69 Ford pickup. Do you have any adventures on the road? I remember driving up there and that old pickup truck had two fuel tanks. And it's not like nowadays we just push a button to switch a fuel tank. It was back then, it was an actual manual valve. So I reached down to switch it to the second tank. And it broke off in my hand.
And we had half a tank. I'm like, oh my god, we're in the middle of nowhere. I hope we can find somewhere. Finally, we found a gas station hung out until it opened up in the morning. But we made it to San Francisco. But I remember coming back one time and somehow they got a hold of a... It goes as me and my other friend Dave, he was our drum-roady. And we were in the front. And James Larsen and Dave were in the back. And somehow they got a gallon of vodka from somewhere.
And we're going down Interstate 5th. And they'd be bashing on the window, I got a pee, I got a pee. Pull over and then they do all kinds of weird crap on the side of the road. Lars went out and laid out on the middle of the road. And on the Interstate 5, I was like, oh my god, I had a lot of responsibility. I mean, I was borrowing my parents' car. I rented a trailer. And I told the guy I'd run the trailer from. I said, I'm only going to hold some furniture within like 20 miles.
I didn't tell him I was taking it all the way to San Francisco. And so I had a lot of responsibility. And that they didn't have to feel. It's kind of like a... You're almost a designated driver. Yeah, I was. Yeah, it's kind of like an animal house with flounder. And he's like trying to save all this. They're trying to break all that stuff. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no break all that stuff. Yeah, I mean, they would take pool balls.
I had this big Eddie from Iron Maiden, a big cutout I got from a record store. And it was up on the wall. The poster? Yeah, it was a cardboard cutout. Yeah, and they take... Well, we had a pool table. And they take the pool balls and throw it and just crash the pool balls into the walls. You know, when they got drunk and stuff. I'm like, no, don't do that. This is my house. You can't do that kind of stuff, you know.
So yeah, because you always did the legendary to Alka Holika and just drinking it all up. Yeah, it was... Yeah, but I think he got worse after I left, you know, whenever they went up there. Right, right, right. So when did you finally get... They finally tell you that Cliff was in and that you were not in anymore? Actually, that never really happened after the whole base thing. Actually, one of the base on the... The here on the base. Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of the last straw.
But before that, we played a show in Long Beach. And I had just gotten that Washburn base. And I had a... I've been as Roadster base as my old one, as a backup. And that base disappeared. It never... It disappeared from the show. And find out later that, you know, somebody might have had it stolen for money. So that was a big deal. Things were disappearing from my house. And then that whole beer thing on my base, I was like, you know, you guys just need to get out. I'm done with it.
I mean, this didn't have to go down like this, you know. They didn't try to push you out or something? Yeah, they didn't have to go down like this. All you had to do was say, hey, we found a guy, you know? Yeah. And I would have been awesome. Great, you know, good luck to you. But it didn't go down that way, and I'm sorry, it didn't, but... Did you ever talk to James about it and say, what's up, dude? Not until they came around back when after Dave got booted and Kirk was in the band.
They came around in 83. And I called... I found out their phone number in San Francisco, and I called him. And I said, you guys are playing the country club out here in L.A. You guys want to stay at my house. And at that point, I only had like a couple of months before they were going to tear the house down. All right. I said, I don't care which due to it. So they all showed up. So they showed up and stayed at my house and, you know, kind of trashed the place and I didn't really care.
So, yeah, we talked about that. You know, everybody was there, Cliff was there, you know, the whole band. Even Dave Mustaine showed up, and I wish I would have got a picture with all of us together. But I could never get Dave and Kirk in the same room. Wow, yeah, I see. At that point. So Dave even showed up. Dave showed up at that party. Yeah, yeah, I had a party kind of like when they were, you know, just as they got there before they played the country club. And Dave showed up.
And I was like, man, this would be a great picture. He's like, the band and then me and then Dave. And well, I never could get them to take a picture together. So... Have you ever, I mean, I'm sure you've spoken to Mustaine since then. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've talked to him and, you know, Megadeth plays Lowe, like Charlotte or something, you know, he'll call me up. Yeah, what's he coming in and watches, you know, so yeah. It's kind of made peace to them after.
Yeah. It's amazing when you're young and stupid shit that you do. Yeah, you know, when you're young, you know, everything is such a big deal. But when you look back at it, you know, 35 years later, it's like, that was nothing compared to what's coming up. You know. How did you feel though when I think you're basically out of the band, like you mentioned that you wish it would have gone down differently. Right. Did you miss playing bass? Did you continue playing bass? I am.
Actually, I sold most almost all my stuff at that point. And I didn't get back into playing until my friend, Kate, and Depana, from high racks. He was a friend of ours, and he asked me, he said, man, you want to be said, I'm kind of at a hiatus with those guys you want to get a band together. So I said, yeah, man, we'll play some ACDC covers or something like that. But then it, you know, it was a band called Phantasm. And we started Phantasm.
Yeah. And we started playing shows and stuff with originals. And I was like, oh my god, here we go again. This is the same thing. I can see it coming. And him being the lead singer, he didn't like that people come to talk to me about Metallica. He didn't really dig that. So that whole band kind of went away. I mean, it was pretty good. I mean, we're like in the kind of skate thrash metal, more thrash metal band. You know, I had a lot more fun with that band because I was writing songs.
And you know, the other in Metallica, it was James and Lars and Dave. I just played what they wanted. But in Phantasm, you know, I was writing riffs. I was writing songs like kind of like that. But you know, just kind of egos and things kind of, you know, try and write any songs from Metallica. I did some arranging that, you know, they'd never admit to because, but as far as riffs and stuff, how you going to tell James headfield? I mean, see if he happened to Newsted when he joined you.
True he or now. It's not a lot of riffs being thrown around that aren't James's, right? Right. Yeah, I mean, but James's like a riff machine. Yeah, that's what he is. That's what he does. What songs did you help arrange? I remember some of the solos in... Oh man. Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. That's Phantam Lord. Yeah, Phantam Lord. Yeah, some of the Phantam... The day would come out of it. And it just kind of...
When you come out of it and it didn't sound right and then I'd say, well James, why don't you take and do the next part, you know, so it kind of flows together. So, you know, I was doing some of that stuff, but as far as the riffs and stuff, you know, is there bands? You know, I knew that, but you know, when we started making delicate t-shirts and stuff, it's like, wow, you know, it's like, hey, I'm in this band. How was that?
How was it for you like, what did you think of their rise? Did you see it coming? Did you expect it? No. I remember being at the palladium. They played the palladium and they opened for Armament St. It was like 1984. I walk into palladium. I'm looking at, like, man, this place is huge. Like, this is as big as they're going to get. This is it right here. They're opening for Armament St.
This is as big as telecosic and ever get. Well, obviously, you know, I was obviously wrong with it, but I do remember, and then they had come before they came out with, right, the lightning. Lars called me up and he said, he said, I'm in LA and once you hear a song. Okay. So he brings over this test pressing, and he puts on fade to black. So first, he said, oh, we're going to do a ballad. I'm like, ballad, yeah, whatever.
So you put on that slow, you know, part of it. I was like, are you kidding me? There's no way this is going to go over, you know, there's no way, but I didn't know it would become so iconic. I never thought that would ever go over. I mean, all the other songs, you know, we're all heavy, you know, creeping death and all that was awesome. But when he put on fade to black, I was like, it was such a departure. What's he guys doing?
When you were out of the band, do you have a good fan base of Metallica fans or wonder what happened to you? This is way before internet and stuff like that, you know, yeah, it's like nobody even really knew. But I mean, people finally figured out after the internet hit, people started researching the band and like, who's this guy around me? You know, who is this? And they started finding me, you know, and asking me for interviews.
And I'm like, how do you know who I am? I'll find you on the internet. Oh, okay. Maybe I'll check that out. Would you still hang out with them when they would come through town throughout the 80s? Oh, yeah. In the 80s, they would call me up and say, hey, we're playing a secret show with a troubadour, you know, before when Jason just joined. And they were playing. I remember I drove down a Ford Ranger, 86 Ford Ranger with just a single cab.
And I picked up James and Jason. And my friend Rich was riding with me. And I didn't have anywhere for those guys to ride. So me and James rode in the front and we put those two in the back. And we were riding around Hollywood with those guys in the open back and my pickup truck, you know. It's like, oh, yeah, that's what we used to do it. You can't do the nowadays. It's still the time.
No, but I mean, I kind of felt bad. You know, I put in the bass player from Dalek in the back of my truck while we're driving. And the front, listen to the music and they're probably freezing their ass off in the back. Would you think when you've found it, like Clifford passed away? Wow, I think I heard it on KNAC, the Rock Station in the back then. Yeah, somebody has said that somebody in Metallica had been killed, but they didn't say who.
And they left it for hours like that was like, oh my god, who is it? And then when they said Cliff and I heard the details, you know, I couldn't believe that because on their 86 tour, they played at Long Beach Arena. And I'd been back there backstage. And the other guys weren't there, but just Cliff. And Cliff and I were sitting there talking and we were eating Chinese food together. And I'm like, wow, this is pretty cool. You know, and we're just talking and Cliff.
And I said, well, I'm going to go, I'll go watch you guys, I'll see you guys after. And then I remember after the show, I went back and I never see Cliff again. And I never knowing that, you know, that would be the last time I ever saw him. Is it a pretty cool guy? He was. He was down to earth. I mean, he came over to my house down in LA and stuff. And, you know, he was just really awesome guy. He was really respectful of me for my tenure in the band. That's cool.
Which was really nice. I remember at that palladium show in 84, I guess it was whenever the ride to lightning, I had a pass. But it was just like a sticker pass. And I wanted to go back in the back and talk to him. But they went and let me in and Cliff saw me. He gave me his, his laminate. And I walked back there and they're, they're a tour manager, tour him up. He said, why did you give him the lamin? He said, he was the first space for Metallica. No, okay.
That's cool. Did anyone ever talk to me ever bitch like a, that feels driving me crazy? No, he never did. No. No, I heard some from Jason, but nothing. Once again, then Jason comes in. It's like the third ex-wife sort of thing, right? Yeah, I never heard anything from Cliff, but... Can I stop for Jason to tell you? Jason, I mean, you know, he, he would tell me that James is pissed at me. I'm like, what? I can't piss that me. I don't even see the guy, you know?
But he kind of told me what's going on with the band and stuff. And I'm not, not too cool the way he was being treated at that point. But, you know, I guess, I don't know if he really knew that he was kind of in that same position that I was in. But I mean, I knew that going in. I don't know that he knew that going in. As far as his role in the band is, you know, you know, you're just playing bass. Right. That's what you're doing. We're writing the music and you're playing.
Which has got to be hard for him too, because he was like the major songwriter in Flossam and Jesse. Like you said, you could kind of sit back and say like, what's going to happen? Yeah. You know, so what did you do after that? Then did you end up becoming a motorcycle mechanic? No, I, we, we closed our business in 1992. And I went to work for the City of Long Beach. So I worked for there for about six years. And then on the side, I did some repos.
I repot cars, had a tow truck, repot some cars and some bad neighborhoods. And with people pulling guns and things. And it's pretty scary. Yeah. Yeah. And then moved out to North. People on you said you got to go take their cars away with the two. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had a, yeah, we had, it was in the middle of the night in Watts, or Compton, one of those neighborhoods. You know, I, I really don't fit in that kind of neighborhood. You know, you kind of pick me out.
But yeah, this woman pulled a gun and I ran down to the phone booth at that time when they had phone booths. And called the cops and they came and, you know, took care of it. But yeah, I just didn't want that happening anymore. So I got out of that business. And so then I moved out here in to North Carolina in 1999. My son Justin and his brother and sister, they moved out a year before me. And I stayed to work a little bit so I can gain some extra money and stuff.
And I moved out here permanently in 99. What do you do out here now? I work in a factory. I don't really want to say where. But yeah, I've been working at this factory for 18 years. And I'm kind of looking, I can see the end at retirement. You know, in my eyes, you know, thinking of something I like to do, you know, whenever I retire. But, you know, I mean, throughout the years, it's been pretty cool that that Metallica has, you know, included me in things like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
So tell us about that. So what did they do? Because obviously you didn't get in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Right. Right. But they called, they said, look, we're being inducted the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. We want you to be part of it. You know, we want you to be there. So I'm saying, yeah, so they flew me out to Cleveland. They had a party the night before at the House of Blues. I think it was. And Jimmy Page was there.
Joe Perry was there. I was like, I told, I took James aside. I said, dude, you got to, you got to understand these are guys that we had up on our walls. And they're standing right here. He's like, isn't it crazy? You know, it's wild. Right. Right. Now, I mean, I had this huge Jimmy Page post in my room when I was, you know, 16. And there he is standing right there between James and Joe Perry.
And I took this picture. James is standing in the middle. And Jimmy Page is on one side. Joe Perry is on the other side. That's cool. How awesome is this? And they're all at the same level at this point. Yeah. And it's like, you would have never thought ever. Do they say anything to you at all? Like, you know, like, do they, do they, do you talk to them? Yeah. Because it's more like, hey, Ron or something.
No. Well, I mean, no, he'll come up. They'll come up to me. And all James will tell me, look, you know, I know, you know, the things that can go well, you know, and the band or it and stuff, but you were a big part of our success. And I want you to be there, you know. And James to this day, he picked, he keeps this picture that we went to Magic Mountain. And when we were in high school in 1980. And we went, we were at Magic Mountain and we went to this photo booth.
And you could pick up a cover of a magazine. You wanted like sports illustrated or whatever. And there was a hit parader. I said, we'll put us on a hit parader. So there's this picture. You can find it on the internet of me and James with this hit parader background when we were in high school. And he, he keeps that. And he has it right at the Metallica at their headquarters in San Francisco. And you can see, they have a couch in front of it.
And they'll do interviews and you can see that picture right there on the background. And I was like, well, it's kind of a kind of a thumbs up to the old days, you know. And school that he says that sort of stuff to keep you involved. Yeah. And you know, when I saw him in Atlanta, when you were there. And he said, you know, we were, he was talking about, you know, 40th anniversary. I'm like, yeah, I said, there's no way I would ever want to get on stage with you guys again.
He has no way. I'm never doing that again. Cause I did that on that 30th. Yeah, that 30th. He said, whatever you want, man, just let me know whatever you want. You know, and you give me a hug. Yeah. Yeah. So whatever you want. Why would you never go on stage? No, that's just not my thing. I'm just, I've given that put that all behind me. I will absolutely be there to, you know, to raise my fist and be out there with the fans. Just like when we were in the pit and the snake pit. That's right.
We were in Atlanta. That's right. Yeah. Hell yeah. I had that pillowcase as a matter of fact with me. Cause I had just done a podcast with the avenge guys earlier. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, that's why I want to be that's, that's, that's why I want to be seen my friends up there on stage. Where they belong. That's not where I belong. But you know, it's, it is cool being having a plaque with my name on it in the rock and roll of fame.
Actually, there's a plaque in there talking about hit the lights and stuff and it has mine and Dave's name on it. That's cool. Just say that you guys played on it. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's talking about no life to leather or whatever. And I was like, well, you know, that, that's enough for me. That's for me anymore than that. What did you think about the rock and roll of fame? Do you think you should have been in there?
No. No. No. No. No. That was never, no. No. Neither Dave or me should have been in, I mean Dave should be in the rock and roll of fame. But you know, as with Megadeth, you know, as far as Metallica, not really. Because, you know, they didn't really planning any official, you know, albums and stuff. But Dave absolutely deserves to be in there. So tell me about the third anniversary because I was there. I saw, I saw you playing.
Yeah, no idea. That you were there. Yeah, I was there. I went to two of the nights and you were one of them. I didn't see, I didn't see, I saw Randy Johnson, the big unit. I saw him, I was like, wow, how cool is this? Well, it was the coolest thing of all time. The greatest kind of anniversary party where Metallica and I counted, they played 20 songs a night, four nights.
And they were all different except for Seacon Destroyers. They played 76 songs in four nights and some of them they had never played live before. So how was that for you? What did they say to get you to do it? And what was the process like? It was kind of a mix up. James emailed me and he told me what songs he wanted me to play on. And I'm I'm thinking it was Metal Malisha and what other songs, some other song and then a Wimit. Metal Malisha jumping the fire, seeking destroy.
And some other song, but anyway, he's going to be Phantom Lord or Motor Breath or Four Horsebinder, whatever it was. Yeah, but anyway, he told me I said, well, I guess I got it by Kill'em All so I can learn, relearn the song. He's like, no, just think of No Life To a Lather. So I'm like, okay. So I'm thinking No Life To a Lather. Which is the way you played it. Right. The way I played it and the songs have been changed. The songs have added parts.
There have been songs that, but I don't think he even remembers that the songs have been changed. Sure. And then we get up there on a practice to practice. And I was like, was it the day of the show? Yeah, it was the day of the show. And I'm like, wait a minute. You're doing the Kill'em All. He's like, I said, you guys changed the songs. He's like, no, we didn't. I said, yes, you did. You told me No Life To a Lather.
So anyway, I only ended up playing on two of the songs, which were kind of the same. Even Seeking Destroy is different. And I was like, crap. What was the other one with the metal militia you played on? Yeah. Yeah. No. Seeking Destroy and Hit the Lights. Okay, gotcha. Hit the lights is basically the same. Seeking Destroy had a whole different ending part that we never used. And I was like, oh shit. This is gonna suck. Had she played it?
Oh, I hadn't played in like 25 years. And then I'm practicing from the tape that I had. Then they just go with what they play all the time. Yeah, I don't know. How much warning did you have? Like before or month before. Oh, you mean to play the song? When did they tell you, okay, we're gonna be doing this. It's three months from now or it's... Oh, it was probably... It was in December. He probably told me in October. Gotcha.
And I was like, yeah, I'm ready. Yeah. And then all of a sudden I'm fine out. Oh, crap. This is the wrong version of the song. So anyway, I was like, just keep me on the last two. Forget it. Yeah. Did you make it through, okay, though? I was, you know, a big Mick. You know that word, a farm. He's like, he's like, calm down, dude. It's okay. You know, like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing here. I'm like, freaking forest gump standing up here.
I mean, I'm standing here with this giant band. The last time I played with them was in San Francisco, you know, 35 years ago. And, you know, I had a club down the street. Now they're like the biggest metal band in the world. And I'm up here on stage with them. I mean, just... It's like that dream that you have when you're on stage. You don't know the song. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, crap. Did you ever get a chance to meet Rob? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I met him first time at the Rockwell Hall of Fame.
He was very nice. Very nice. Yeah. And I saw him at Atlanta again. And, you know, every time I've seen them with Rob, he's very, very cordial, very nice. Very nice. Respectful of the time. Very, very jack. He calls me Metallica Mark I. I guess there is a Mark I, you know, if he's in Mark, whatever there are four. I guess, yeah. Okay. Do you actually be Mark V? Because there was Cliff and Dave in my version, dude. Okay.
Just a couple more questions. When you go to Atlanta, and did you see Lars there? Yeah. Because I was like, I went to that area where we met kind of the VIP. Right. And then you get summoned to go see Lars. Yeah. Okay. So did you get your summoning as well? Yeah. They all came through. Yeah. All of them. I got to see all of them first James and then Lars and then Kirk and then Robert, I think.
Yeah. But yeah, they all come through. But, you know, the Rock and Roll Hall fame was kind of a lot more cool because, you know, everybody was there all together. And at that, at that show, you know, I had a few beers anyway. So I was like, and I saw Robert standing there and I saw Jason standing there. Mike, how about let's get all three of us together? That's cool. So there's a picture. There's a picture of all three of us.
Yes. And so I'm like, yeah, all the, you know, the surviving bass player. I think I've seen that. That's cool. Yeah. I think I've actually saw it once with somebody Photoshop a picture of Cliff in the same size. Yeah, over over you. Over us. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. That was my idea. I said, I grabbed that girl who she was working from Metallica. I said, can we do this picture? And I got those guys. And, you know, we did that one. I thought it was pretty cool.
It was a great picture of Phil Rudd, Simon Wright and Chris Slade, the three drummers of Eastern Kingston. Yeah. That sort of reminded me of the first. Okay. So, so what, I don't think when it's all said and done, how does it feel for you to know that you played a part in the beginning of what could possibly be the biggest band in the world? And by far the biggest heavy metal band in history. Well, like I said this a little while ago, but some people have asked Dave Mustaine.
I saw somebody ask him, do you think you're the godfather of Thrasch? You know, and he's, he finally says, yeah, you know, basically I guess I am, you know, kind of thing. Like I said, I'm the forest gump of Metallica because I was kind of there in, within history. But I didn't really know it. You know, you're playing on stage with all these, you know, icons and things. And you're just, you're just like, I mean, back then obviously you don't know.
But, you know, you look at it now. It's like, you know, that's pretty awesome. It is very awesome. This is almost seem like another life. Yeah, it is a whole different life. Yeah, it's like a, you know, you, you have one previous life and then, you know, your other life. Yeah. Do you still like have connections with fans? Do you? Yeah. Talk to fans at all. You just kind of just, that is what it is.
When I, when I had Facebook for a long time and, you know, it just got to be too tedious and time consuming of people asking me for interviews and, you know, things like that. And so I finally just dropped it. And, you know, there's only so much I can say, you know, and, and, you know, people back in the 80s after that. People want to get in band, me to be in their band just because of my connection with Metallica. And, you know, that's not what I wanted to do.
You know, that wasn't, that wasn't ever my original role. So have you ever thought about doing any of the conventions or anything like that? Like, you're signed for fans? I have done, I've been invited to a couple of them. The horror conventions, they put like, yeah, so I've done one in Charlotte and then I did one in, where the heck was the other one? Somewhere in the Midwest. A lot of people that would want to come meet you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have some good chats on that.
Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of people and I had some old flyers that I make copies of. That's cool. Old band pictures. Yeah, people love that stuff. So, but... You're part of history, dude. You're part of rock and roll history, you know? I guess, but, you know, I just really don't feel like it, you know? I mean, yeah, I mean, but I can look at it, you know, as a very good thing because all the bad is all gone.
You know, that's gone and, you know, my relationship with the guys in Metallica and even Dave is very good, you know. That's the most important thing, right? You know, and as we all get older, you know, we all mature. So, you know, you kind of let all that go and... As far as the bitterness is far as ours. Yeah, as far as you're exited out of the band. Right, you know, the bitterness and everything. And, you know, I never, I never had that feeling.
Some people come up to me and say, well, how was it being, you know, you work in a factory and used to be Metallica? And I'm a suck. I'm like, but I've always had a job. I mean, that's what I did. I've always had a... I've always been a working man. That's what I've done. And the Metallica you were in was basically a bar band. A garage band that made it to the next level.
But it's not like... I can see that affecting Mustaine more because he was actually kicked out right at the peak of writing songs and being... But for you, like you said, that was never... Even you knew it was never the role for you to do that. Exactly. So I can see people because people are people who want to, you know, talk that way, but for you, it's like it's not like you had the world by the hand and blew it. Right.
You know what I mean? It's like you were a part of this at a certain point in time and look at it as a very cool thing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how many people that are... I mean, I'll be 54 here in a couple, few weeks. How many people... My age were in a garage band when they were a teenager. Lots of them. But how many were in Metallica? No, none, you know. Yeah. So that was Mustaine the fact you have all your hair too. Yeah, well. It's that. Yeah. I told Lars in Atlanta.
Yeah, I said, I was talking to this guy. I said, what were you doing when you were 18? You guys said, wow, it was a lifeguard. But you guys said, yeah, hang out with the beach. I said, wow, it was a beach player from Metallica. Jajin! Who wins that? You know? It's a pretty good summer job. Last question for you. What was your favorite song, Songs to Play, Live with Metallica? Well, that'd be Whip Lash because that was the last song that was written when I was in the band.
And when we came up with that song, that was awesome. And then we played that in San Francisco and the people were just going nuts. You know, that was just... Were you a pick player or finger? Yeah, I was a pick player because like I said, I was a guitar player. So I played it the way that James wanted me to play. And James always played with a pick. So he showed me how to play with a pick. He played with a pick. I played with a pick.
So when I saw Jajin play, I was like, he's a lot more technical, but basically, because Cliff was in a different... And Rob's that vibe too. And Rob too. Rob's two pick players, two finger players. Yeah, and Rob is an awesome, you know, I mean, infectious groups. It's just crazy stuff. And then the fact that he plays anesthesia, like, to the T. I'm not sure if Jajin ever did that. You know, so that's something that only a few people in the world can see.
And when we were at Atlanta and they had up on the screen, they had those pictures of Day on the Green with Cliff up their plane. And I was thinking, I was at Day on the Green. Oh wow. I was there. I drove up there and stayed... Actually, I stayed in my truck out in front of their house. I drove up there and they were practicing. And they were practicing it in garage, just like we were practicing. You could hear him playing on, for whom the bell tools, all this stuff's like, how cool is this?
But next day, we went to, you know, saw my day on the Green. And I saw Cliff up there and I'm like, wow, this is about where I was standing. I was not too far away. Right where he... He had that at that time. And that same show in 1985. And I was standing pretty much in the same spot. So it's kind of weird looking at him that huge up there playing just like watching him. Do you listen to, are you still a Metallica fan? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're new albums, really good. I agree. I really like it.
What's your favorite Metallica song? What's your favorite as a bass player, at least knowing kind of the vibe? Do you have a favorite Cliff song for bass? Or Jason's song or Robert's song? Or you just listen to them as a band? I like a lot of Jason's stuff that's on the 598 EP. You know, the copy stuff? Yeah. I mean, I think you know, crash course and all that stuff. That's where you got a chance to show off his stuff and you could hear him in the mix too.
Yeah, I mean, I liked that because he was kind of drowning out after that. You know, I really like... I like Jason too. I mean, he's a nice guy too. And when I was in San Francisco at that 30th anniversary gig, he and I were standing up on the balcony and Ozzy was up there playing. And he had played with Ozzy and he just hits me in the arm. He's like, how cool is this? Like, yeah, Ozzy, right there, man. That's cool, man. Those guys just give you that respect. How about Cliff?
It was your favorite Cliff song. Just watching and playing anesthesia. I mean, you know, he just go off on his own thing and you know, he was just using a different realm. You know, we never really heard anybody like that. How about his playing on Kill'em All? Is it pretty much what you were doing? Or did he just take it and make it completely his own? He took it to a different level though.
You know, I was just, I was, if you can listen to No Life To A Leather, then you can listen to Kill'em All. And you can tell the big difference, you know. I mean, especially like, well, James's voice was way different, you know. But, yeah, I mean, he just brought a heaviness and a thrashingness to him. Just watching him with that three-flit hair, you know, that craziness, Gene Jacket. Yeah, Gene Jacket, no bottoms. He just, it's like he walked right out of the Linner Skinner.
I mean, that's exactly what he looked like. Right. And that was his vibe, too. Oh, yeah, as a player. Yeah. Yeah. Ron has been great talking to you, man. All right. Great story. Very, very cool. Thanks for coming. Appreciate it. Thanks to OG Metallica, Basis Ron McGoverney for sharing such killer stories about Metallica's formation, early days and first gigs. And if it's live gigs you want to see, get on board the Chris Jericho Rock and Wrestling Ranger. It's he's setting sail October 27th.
Still a few cabins left at Chris JerichoCrews.com. You're going to get to see Fuzzy, Corey Taylor, King, Phil Campbell, and the Bastard Sons, the Stirr, the Dave Spivak project, Blizzard of Oz, Shoot to Thrill. All of these great rock and roll bands are all inclusive when you book your cabin, along with all the live podcasts, comedy shows, meet and greets, autograph signings, and wrestling matches, and your food. All you got to pay for is alcohol and gambling.
It's going to be so much fun that we do know for sure some of the matches, Ring of Honor versus Impact as we have Sammy Callahan versus Marty Skirl kicking it off. Now the Alpha Club will be wrestling the Bucks of Jericho or is it Y2 Jackson? We've got a live talk as Jericho with Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Another live talk as Jericho remembering Eddie Guerrero with Conan and Rey Mysterio. Mick Foley is doing his 20 years of hell stand-up show.
We also got a live talk as Jericho with the entire Bullet Club. Another live talk as Jericho with Jim Ross and Jerry the King Waller. We've got the words of Jericho, my one man show. I'll be doing all these things for you. I'm actually marrying somebody as well. And the first round of the Ring of Honor, C of Honor tournament has been announced. J. Lee's Little versus B.J. Whitmer, Christopher Daniels versus Delirious, Marty Skirl versus Rep Titus, Silas Young versus Flip Gordon.
And we've got the B bracket, Mark, Briscov versus Will Ferrarra, Adam Page versus Frankie Kiserion. Cheese, Betta Gav versus Beer City Bruiser. J. Briscov versus Kenny King. Plus we got the Keep it at 100 Crew, Conan, Disco and Fernos, Shane Helms versus Kill in the Town, Don Callis, Paul Azenby and an unnamed third. So many other things going on, Brian Williams, Craig Gasff, Ron Funches, Sal and Cue from the impractical jokers.
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That's why Bruce Britchard got one of the hottest podcasts in the world today. Something to wrestle with Bruce Britchard. Well, he's going to join me here on Talk Is Jericho. This Friday, so stay tuned for that. Until then, in the meantime, in the between time, stay hard and stay hungry. Peace, love and hugs, and a big and yeah boy! Such a hand, seek and destroy!