Talk Heathen 09.03 with ObjectivelyDan and Jamie the Blind Limey 2025-01-19

The separation of religion and government. It's a phrase you've heard a say at the start of basically every show we've run for years, But what does it really mean? As part of the mission statement of the ACA, and it represents our support of the establishment clause of the First Amendment of the United States, that not only should the law be protected from the overreach of religion, but religion itself be protected from the overreach of the government.

Hello, Hello everybody. It is January nineteenth, twenty twenty five. I am objectively Dan. Joining me today is Jamie the Blind Libby and you're watching Talk Heathen. We are a five or one C three nonprofit organization. What's that not talk either the Atheist Community of Austin nonprofit organization dedicate to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and

Oh no, I've got one, you got one. I was challenged on the last show that I did to say the name of the longest city name this town name in Europe, and I messed it up. But I've learned it now, So if you put in ten super chats, then I might say it at the end of the show. If you're lucky, I.

Think we're doing We're doing ten super chants of five dollars or more, five dollars more, we'll get done. How does that sound.

Sounds good to me?

Okay? Cool? So yeah, that's it. That's it. We're good. We are live or ready to go. Jamie the Blind Limey joining me today. What's up? Jbie?

I am I found. I am Schroding as influencer. I am both cringe and based at the same time. And I'm just waiting for the waveform function to collapse.

Okay, that's how long were you sitting on that one? Because you definitely didn't just come up with that on the spade. That was that was too thought out.

I prepare for these shows. I'm just sitting there, like, what weird thing can I say to put my co host off their game.

That's a pretty weird thing to say. That's a pretty weird thing to say, I'll be honest, So you got me. Good job with that. You know, there's a lot of talk right now because of the TikTok band that's currently happening.

Well, basically as the cold open things like me, Angie, Me want talk people who are like all up in the whole God is better than the government kind of thing. Because I am afraid, I truly am afraid of what's going to happen over the next few years. And I mean it when I say I'm going to swear that oath I will become a citizen in the near future because I am tired of being a passenger on this train and having no say on when I get off,

With that representation, you're going to go against your your ancestry, You're going to go against.

Your British I've chosen.

I'm here worshiping ancestors.

I'm here on purpose purpose. You can't get rid of me. You have to deport me. But she's actually far more likely than.

All right, he said it to me, he said it on me. We have to deport him now. So that's that's what's going on happen, I think. But anyway, eight folks, we do have a segment that happens every week on Talkith and it is called Talk Heathen to Me, and it is where we get to ask you guys a question or a prompt and then we read some of the best answers from that. Last week, we asked you sin is to God as what is to what? And here were our top three answers for that. Number three

Life on oatmeal raisin better than the chip, and I.

Will do you like it better than childish?

I will done on that hill anyway.

Okay, all right, Well, you know you can find about that in the comments. I suppose to see if we're wrong about that, But I don't know if i'd say it's better, I'd say it's good, though I do like it. Number two comes from house Bells, who said sin is to God as CrossFit is to brow dudes. And I don't know, there's a lot, you know, I don't know how I feel about that because CrossFit isn't It's not

I have opinions on CrossFit, but I won't share them because rich coming from someone who looks like a clear plastic bag full of vanilla pudding. So I'll keep my moving to myself.

Okay, Okay, that's fair.

Uh.

You know, it's a free country. You can say what you want, unless it's on TikTok, right, So you know, just do what you want with that. Number one this week comes from Life Crowther, who says sin is to God as lightning rods are to Benjamin Franklin. That might be Leath Crowther actually, but I don't know. But yeah, sin is to God as lightning rods are to Benjamin Franklin. Was that a myth? Is that one of those things that you hear about well later was totally BS?

I would say so, because the whole like I held a key up in a light, put on a kite, like if he got show, he'd be very, very very dead.

Yeah. Yeah, that's gotta be not real that you always hear these stuff about the not presidents, because Benjamin Franklin was a president, but like you know, founding Fathers, about all these cool shit that you did, and then you hear you you know, realize like half of it is BS.

They down the cherry tree, and yeah, topically it's the whole thing, Like was Jesus real? Maybe? Did he come back from the dead? Probably not. You know, It's like was was George Washington real? Probably?

You know, it's true about Benjamin Franklin though he was into mills.

You French Mills specifically, he was super into that, which I respected.

You know, he like wrote he was doing the red Pill stuff like like giving advice to people about how to date when. But it was exclusively for cougars. It wasn't for like any other, you know, kind of person.

So you know, outside his spaghetti was buttered.

Yes, shout out to Benny Frank. You think I think you think that Benfamin frankl was around today. You think he'd be like an Elon Musk type or do you think he'd be like a like a red Pill.

I think he's a bit more sort of enlightened than that. But he'd definitely go on the Joe Rogan podcast and joke Oh dude, yeah, yes, that's all he does.

Benny Frank, Benny Frank on Joe Rogan. I can see it, you know. Yeah, wow, such times, such times we live and anyway, let me let me check, let me check. We do have some people that want to talk to us, and we should probably talk to them, don't you think?

Well, since my favorite version of the Bible is the King James and that was brought out at the same time as the Bard, then it would end with a wedding. That's a literary joke.

I don't know that I got that, do I know? Am I just dumb? Do I not understand Shakespeare?

Shakespeare comedies always end with a wedding?

Okay, all right, I'm sorry. I'm not as culture as you are.

Stunting on you, danm styling on you.

I was so busy thinking about the hypothetical Benjamin Franklin Joe Rogan podcast. I think I think it was a little distracted with that. But anyway, we also have a super chat that I should read out from Miranda Rensberger. Give him ten dollars who said I would watch the Jamie and Dan Shooting the Ship podcast? Hey, there it is folks. There's not enough podcasts in the world. We have to make more of them.

Not enough. Yeah, dude's doing podcasts.

Yeah, that's a new market. No one's ever done that before. I mean, geez, I'm very self conscious about that.

By the way.

When I whenever I tell people, well, what do you do with your free time, it's like, well, I do I do podcasts? You know? It's like I don't. It's not something I take a lot of pride in. It's more like an embarrassing secret that people find out about me, because it's like, you know, you don't want to be I don't want to be that guy. There's such variance in quality in that, you.

Know, but you know you're not fresh and fit, and that's the point. That's right.

Well, there's a lot of I don't know, there's a lot of a lot of people out there who are making content that, in my opinion, should not be making content. So but that's just me. I'm a hater, right, So what can you do about that? But anyway, I think now is the time we dial it in and talk to some people. We got a couple of people who want to talk to us, and I think we can start you want to go more topical, let's do I

Hey? Thanks for having me today.

I heard you were short on collars, so I figured i'd give you guys a phone.

Hey, Jamie, nice to talk to you again.

No, you know me. How you doing today?

Fine? I have I have learned to recover from a compressor stall in the fourteen and so I'm quite good anyway. What's on your money, ma'am?

It sounds like you really need my h you really need that the thing the dial thing that that that my uncle. I don't even know what the fuck it's called, but my uncle said he wanted to wanted me to send it to you, and I got to get it.

In the mail.

Okay.

Also found out another thing I have in common with you. Love outmeal raising over chocolate chip.

All right, that's another one for the raising over chocolate chip. This is a very this is a very segmented bias population here, because I truly think if you asked most people, they would go the other way. You know what you like, what you like, and that's love, baby, So you know, so all right, Dave, what you got retarding the TikTok.

Regarding the TikTok ban, I feel like it is more of a political power play than anything else, especially considering well, yeah, I mean because they had the vote in Congress, but uh, it wasn't that Congress. It was enforcing any kind of ban. TikTok specifically said we're going to go dark on Sunday unless Biden assures gives gives them some kind of assurance

Not like it.

Yeah, And the thing is is that I very much am opposed to the TikTok ban I post on there, and I'm an opponent of it now. Of course, like all social media, it's a corporate entity, and like we can't lionize them too much, you know. But my experience on TikTok has actually been quite relevant to my work here with the ACA, because a lot of the things that I have been experiencing are live broadcasts of Christians and Muslims trying to do debates. Maybe that's just my algorithm,

Yeah, I'm up two minds about this because of one, go ahead, Dave.

Oh no, no, by all means I I was just saying, I agree.

That's literally all I was saying, gotcha.

Yeah, Yeah. So like, I'm up two minds of this because on the one hand, TikTok is an absolute hellhole of misinformation, of dangerous stuff that has definitely gotten people the wrong idea about literally everything. But on the other hand, I don't like, you know, like it is. Rather here have I'm circling. Here's how I'm making this this square circle and making this part of talk. He either okay, talk. TikTok is one of the mediums by which the atheist

I think that's the thing that kind of annoys I.

Was also sorry.

I was also talking with a listen promised the other day on this one on joot Gum because the conversation about pornhub got brought up and that porn hub is banned in Florida. But I was trying to add a little bit of corrective information there. It's not that porn hub was banned in Florida. Porn Hub pulled out of

Yeah, and for good reason. I mean, server side verification tools of that nature are building a database of people's personal information and driver's licenses is just an invitation tackers. Porn Hub and sites like it that are making a stand on this are in the right in my opinion, because user side age verification is what should be being done from an Internet security standpoint, and again it's the puritanical overreach is the saber rattling, It's the whole, like

I'm sorry, you haven't been living in this country long enough. If you think that's going.

To happen, allow me to have a tiny shred of that's just a tiny shred.

I did, though, think that this was a great highlight of the hypocrisy of these same puritanical law makers, because the same people who are rattling their sabers against this the TikTok and how China might be collecting our data are trying to enforce our own companies to collect data, so they care about who collects data as long as it's them.

Yes, you know that that's part of it. I mean, like the the whole hypocrisy stuff. Nobody cares about that anymore. That's the problem. Nobody cares. Everybody's ay procrit everybody's doing dumb stuff. Like the bad part about this is that people are going to see this band and they're not

I guess that's what we do with we can. But like, if anything overtly really just does come up in legislation, which I anticipate it will, that's when we can step in. I mean, the ACA has a specific mission and a specific remit and an abounding box in which we can operate. But within that I think that it behooves us again to be proactive. If if it's over, we're gonna start putting God's law into your law. And that's why you can't look at boobs or whatever. That's something we can

Yeah, well, we'll keep it volt.

In two thousand and three, I voted for Larry Flint in two thousand and three. I thought he had the best ideas for the First Amendment at the time, but I was nineteen, so I had other reasons for for for liking Hustler at the moment.

Yeah. Well, let's just say, I don't know. People have made worse decisions than nineteen maybe so you know.

Every day, but I think.

That's all the time that we got for you today. Any any any last words you want to add before we let you go today.

Uh? Nah, it was a great call.

Thanks for having me, and I hope you guys have a great rest of your show.

Great, thanks so much, Dave, appreciate you calling in. And yeah, of course, it is the reality we live in. We have to navigate our political conversations very carefully because we are a product of if I have a one C three nonprofit organization, so you know we are polity is already limited.

We're politically neutral, we don't we don't approve of or denigrate any particular party or person, but we do have opinions on standpoints, especially as it comes to when religion gets involved. And that's where I'm going to be pointing my site if it happens.

Yeah, I mean, TikTok is the reason why people are a Christian, TikTok is the reason why some people became atheists. It's a big mover in shaper in regards to people's personal beliefs, not just religious obviously, but political and otherwise. So that censorship that taken away of that is it is a big deal. It does affect us. So I'm glad we could talk about it, but it does make me feel very powerless talking about these things.

It kind of make you feel quite impotent when we scream as one thousands, thousands and thousands of voices all united and are completely ignored.

Well, but you know what, I do have the power to do, James, What's that It's picked the next call that we should talk to but before we do that, we should actually read a couple of super chants that also came in in between that time, one from Herbie Schein, who gave five pounds and said, I love, yes, love, Jamie's sense of humor, always so funny, silly and clever, always makes me laugh at unexpected moments. What a nice comment you got there.

Very nice. I agree with one of those three. I am very silly.

We got another one, a dollar ninety nine from Jonathan Franz, who said, I love Jamie's sense of humor even more so. You know, Jamie, You've got a lot of positivity going your way. Yeah, a lot of pressure you Okay, don't fuck up now, all right? You understand you got to keep me in funny, all right, or you're that's it, You're ound.

I reserve the right to completely flame out and freak out. Maybe will happen.

Okay, all right, well if you say so. Yeah, that being said, before I keep going as well, I should probably, you know, talk to you guys a little bit about some of the other stuff that we got going on here as well. If you want to help the show in the many different ways that you can help us. One of it is through taking in flyers. Yeah, flyers. You know, that's the thing that people still look at sometimes.

That frame make us Christian does. Like one of the things about religious people that I am insanely jealous about is that the fact that they can think it's all part of the plan, like God has a plan for us, like even through the worst of times, it's for a reason, and I can't bring myself to believe that, but I wish I could sometimes.

Man, Yeah, no, I that's the thing, like, if God's real, at least at least I want to know about it, right, so you know, why not try to convince me of that? But also real quickly, I should say, we have merch if you want to support that as well, T shirts, hoodies, crop tops, you name it, chiny dot cc slash merch Aca if you want to check out some of that delicious,

Not the much man?

You know, just just calling in, guys, got a pressing question for you. I just wanted to know what's so bad about God? You know, I've been watching you guys show for a while and you guys seem to have a very strange attitude towards the Lord. And now was just wondering why.

I think somebody who would you have it if somebody killed thousands of people on their own whim would you be would you find it strange if somebody said that was you know, odd or weird or wondering why that should be? Because I don't think so. I think if somebody killed a bunch of people, you should question that person's character. You should probably say, hey, you know, maybe this isn't something that we should look towards or worship towards.

So that argument is completely absurd, and I'll tell you why in a second. So you have to understand that even though he God, or you're saying he killed thousands of people with there's just there's just no evidence for that. But if he did, he also gave birth to billions of people. So if we're talking about somebody.

That gives birth is okay with killing other people, then if I if I give birth to billions of people, it's okay if I kill other people.

Yeah, what's a couple of thousands here and there? I mean, if you're actually like actually like growing human beings and making more human beings, than.

He has a couple of thousand here and there.

If you please, what's a couple?

What's killing a couple thousand people here and there?

Right?

You're making more people every end? Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I I just think that's absurd, right, And the evidence for God killing people, by the way, he is in the Bible, right, Like, if you're a Christian anyway, that's who God is, And if you believe the words of the Bible, then God has killed people. That's not even a contestable fact really, like that's just already present. But no,

I mean it's in that positive though, That's like billions over thousands of people is.

In that positive. So, Danny, Danny, are you a believer? Are you a theist? Do you believe in a God at least? Okay? Cool?

Absolutely?

Yeah?

So to us, God is a fictional character. But the importance of God is that people believe that he's real, and their beliefs inform their actions and The thing is is that the character of God is portrayed in the Bible and also the Quran and many other scriptures, is a morally reprehensible being, precocious, jealous, rage for pride, for inconsistent, and to modern believers, he's an absentee father. He came in, did some shit, and fucked off, and we don't know

Saying so, what we're trying to say is that God is simply causing war without reason? Is this correct?

I'm saying that.

Not God causing war. People believing in God, well, I often do things in act because of their God, believe that God is on their side in any conflict.

Yeah.

Yeah, God can no more cause wars than Optimus Prime can because they're both fictional characters as far as I can see.

Well, that's not true.

Okay, evidence please.

Evidence for God not being for God being true.

For God being real? Yeah please?

Okay, Well, okay, I'll give you this. So if you go for three days, and I guarantee you haven't done this before, if you go for three days, you get down on your knees and pray, God will reveal himself to you. Done it to me, He's done it for other callless theists. Have you actually gone for three days on a retreat and in your humunity in your final hour of the three days, has God revealed himself to you? Can you answer that?

Please?

Been a Christian for more than half of my life, and I used to serve in ministry where I would work at church camps, for example, and spend entire summers literally worshiping God five days out of the week and praying every single day in not just with myself, but in accordance with other Christians. And God has never shown me any definitive signs of his existence.

It just sounds like, you know, you weren't really devoted to the faith.

Ah, there it is, there it is. I wasn't a good enough Christian. And that seems to be the case for every single person who's ever left Christianity. Isn't it that they're just not good enough Christians? They just haven't prayed hard enough, or they haven't just done the right things. Unfortunately, this isn't an issue just with Christianity. Muslims also make the same excuse for people who leave Islam. Mormons do

Yeah, you think that's called special pleading. You're just you're specially pleading here. I hate to break it to you, but what do you mean?

What what? We're not special bleeding? That's the purview of the religious, The whole the universe must have a start. But God doesn't have a start that coming.

He literally gave you an example of my devotion. And rather than accepting it as oh, maybe this is counter evidence to anything I've ever claimed here, you're just saying, oh, well, you didn't do it right, you didn't do it hard enough. And the fact is, like, I'm not the only person who's ever claimed to have ever been a Christian either.

How many how many people have died in with God's name on their lips, praying, crying out for relief. How many parents wishing that their child wasn't sick bringing up prayers. But nah, God's just gonna let them die of that glioblastema because it's all part of the plan in it, it's all God's will, because it's all very convenient. If you pray and you don't get an answer, it's because you didn't believe hard enough, or there's a reason for

Yeah, so you think you're so araorful, you know, you think you're so cool walking backwards, you think, But in reality, the tree you're just putting in hell, it's not gonna be worth it. Give you two seconds and they'd be like, oh my God, please please let me come back. Please, Like, let's be honest here, and no one's gonna be happy in hell knowing that they're better than God. All right,

Are you kidding me?

So? Is this where we're laying at that? Oh? No, you're not really gonna be happy. We're in hell instead of the whole like whether God is even real thing?

Going there anyway, I can't stop it, Like if I don't believe in God, I go there, so I may as well make the best of it as I can.

You're gonna make the best of it. You're gonna make the best of having your toenails ripped off at every moment in aching pain. Bro. Yeah, of course, Yeah, you're so dishonest. It's just sad, honestly, honestly, just quite sad.

Wow, the condescension is strung with this one.

So do you are you gonna show us why we should believe in God or.

We'll believe the hell is actually real? I mean that you can no more threaten me with Hell than with the flipping shadow realm, Like it's a it's a fake place. It's in the imaginary place. And also which hell I mean, are you certain that your god's the real one, because there's a lot of options out there.

Well, I believe. I believe in the in the nine Layers of Hell. I believe in Dante's Inferno interpretation of Hell. I believe that you go from limbo to like the nice eight years or whatever, which aren't you guys, by the way, and then you go to lower down a little round.

I think this guy's trong. It's a little bit. Yeah, Dante's Inferno is a story. It's not scripturally accurate. It's actually basically a roast of certain popes and the like. So if Dante's Inferno is your idea of Hell, then my idea of Hell is I don't know robot Hell from future Ama, because they're both as fictional as each other.

I do believe that, But that's besides the point. That's a whole other argument.

To be honest with you, why do you believe we don't know? Please tell us what what scriptural evidence is there that Dante's infer which is our story. It's a it's the story book. It's actually fan fiction, like I'm going to go through Hell with my favorite poet from Greek history inspired and you're gonna have to give us some evidence of that, chief, you know, yeah.

I I honestly no, no, let's I'm gonna cut to the chase. I think you're a troll. I don't think you're a real person. If you want to be sincere in your beliefs, you have thirty seconds to prove that to me or less. Otherwise I'm just going to drop the call. Now.

Well, yeah, so you see don is infernal? Was ah?

Yeah, right, yeah, it's not even real. All right? Well, by.

If you silly, if you can give us something better than that, and you can try and call us back, But otherwise we'll just.

Keep brand standing and just talking about how we'll stick our middle fingers up and walking backwards in the hell, you know every time. I guess I don't know, this is silly. What do you do with that? What do you do with that? Jamie?

I don't know. I mean that I have noticed that there is an uptick in trolling callers to shows, our shows and shows like them, And I think it's just because after all this time, the believers that know that they are only working on their own personal revelation and have no evidence to give us. I'm just afraid to call in because they know they're just going to be asked for something that they can't give. And the only ones that are left of the people who want to

Yeah. Probably, So it's a real shame. But I want you to talk to you. Are no next callers here, so let's uh, let's hopefully get a real call here. We have one from Steve who's calling in from Nebraska, and I hope Steve is being sincere here here in there. Believe Steve, you're alive on talky then, can you hear us?

Yeah? Happy MLK weekend everyone, Hi Dan and Jamie for allowing me this calls to present the trees and craters of evidence justsing a mile high. The Biblical flood occurred approximately one thousand, eight hundred years ago.

All right, all right, lay it on me thick here. So there's trees and there's craters, and somehow that's evidence for a mile high flood forty eight hundred years ago.

Right the measure of the mile high the local bludge extent determined where the personally plugged olive branch returned to the ark by O's terrier doub Gage's water levels elevated near the world's most highly elevated olive trees, situated five

Okay, okay, let's stop right there. Let's let's go back and say, so crater forming a creator in the Earth and then causing tsunamis like that, that could possibly happen. Right. That's not the same thing though, as God flooding the Earth, right and then killing all sentient life on it, including the animals and whatnot, right, and then having that flood subside, and then having the Earth repopulate based on you know,

The Bible doesn't actually Bible was global from a Noah's perspective, obviously a myohile it's from you know, from Gast's perspective, would would seem to be a worldwide, but actuality, it would have to be a bimile high blood to be truly global to cover the top of the mount ever since, and and then the Bible doesn't actually uh, it doesn't actually say that. The Hebrew word for earth doesn't necessarily mean globe. Fact, the agent's not that the flat earthers,

Earth was like well, the understanding of most, if not all, Christians specifically, and many other religions as well. Why when asked Jews whether the Torah goes with this is that it was a global flood that was intended to wipe out all of humanity barring this one family, one story.

The story goes that all humans right were crooked except for Noah's family, not just like the humans in the general vicinity, which so that would mean it would have to be global because there were humans living all over the world at that point, right.

Not necessarily so by every everyone. That could mean Noah's perspective, and that could mean all the soum.

So, dude, what you're what you're doing right now is basically giving like taking the divine out of It's like, here are some potentially naturalistic reasons as to the flood story. Thanks, dude, you do not job for us. Are you trying to convince us that the flood story has is basically a misinterpretation of natural phenomena and is not actually God derived. Do you believe that God's real? Do you believe that it was a divine punishment?

Absolutely? I believe Goa was wrapped on an island surrounded by a bunch of ungrully zoophiles, and he had no way off the island without putting hisself in jeopardy, in his family property and livestock and jeopardy and needed to be rescued. And at the same time, I believe that these mistake only made these millennium passing pheno types and they needed to be wiped out from the human gene pool, and.

God killed humans.

Yeah, so no, I think he's saying only a specific there is a sin population with the wrong phenotypes and they had to be ethnically cleansed in the local area. I think he's what he's saying, still, right, Steve, Yeah, he said correct.

Okay, that's so wild interpretation that has absolutely no scriptural evidence to it as far as I'm aware, are you, I want to consult.

I don't know why you'd say, no, livesn't an island. He was definitely like in the area that's now known as Iraq.

He could have just he could have just he could have just gone mountain right escaped the flood could.

Logically, well, yeah, that's why, that's why you had to build the boat to save the animals. That's what I'm saying. Like it's you know, if you want to do your own spin on it, you know, that's fine, But like the narrative is that everyone dies. Everything dies, Like it's not just a local flood, that it is everything, and so the leftover in order to prevent the you know, local life from dying, they have to build a boat

And if it's a Megasseudon army rather than a flood, if it's a Megasoudon army rather than a flood, show me the ship that can that can survive that, because the arc would be splinters by by by a wave that i energetic, You'll be tossed like a like a like a paper cup. Nothing about the story makes any sense when you take into account like the laws of physics for example, or.

Yeah, animal, Yeah, if we're already talking about divine intervention. There's no point talking about the physical parts of it anyway, because you can just put any inconsistency in the story as part of divine intervention. So I don't know. You're You're between a rock and a hard place here, Steve.

Okay. So NASA's double asteroid redirection tests altered the tra

AH charts of the Gods.

Steve, I can't. I can't help you, man, I'm sorry.

I think you and I Dan have spoken to Steve before. I think we may have had a conversation regarding coding in DNA and pyramids and triangles before. If memory serves Steve, you're making no sense, mate, Like it's completely unconvincing. And to segue to modern asteroid redirection experiments when we're talking about biblical times, like, nowhere in the Bible does it talk about the rockets and shit? Man, like you are you really honestly thinking this is going to be convincing to us?

But the Bible is taught from perspective to the ancient ancient people.

Yes, in other words, not a space faring civilization that can redirect meteors hitting the earth.

Right, aliens? Yeah, they couldn't have understood that concept of ancient aliens, so it's pulled from their perspective so they could understand. Word.

Okay, so here's the thing, and I'll leave it at this, Steve, because I don't know if I even want to go down this rabbit hole with you, but I'll have you think about this right little concept called Oukham's razor. Maybe you've heard of this or not. It talks about how generally the simplest solution tends to be the correct one. Not always the case, obviously, but something to think about.

We have all these trees and cragers of evidence in the time frame and when the biblical what happened. We have these forty eight hundred year old creators, all of these I mentioned how the trees that are older than forty hundred yours only exist a way up elevation we are, so there was a stray blud that happened.

Also have evidence, Steve that people make shit up, you know, right, we'll just make up stories, right, people have stories and cultural stories.

Sometimes you're stacking. You're stacking assumption over assumption, over assumption, and none of the evidence that you're giving us actually indicates what you're saying. So some trees that are higher up are you're saying, there's no trees on lower levels that are that are older than than forty eight hundred years I mean Sequoia redwoods are Like, there's trees out there that like ten thousand years old. It's nuts.

You're also talking about trees in other locations that aren't like in the Middle East, Yeah, which is presumably where the story takes place, and if this is also a story about a local phenomenon will simultaneously also being a global flood thing. Like it's not really making any sense that.

Has both divine and naturalistic explanations that also involve aliens. Just this is a fever dream man. I don't know how to engage with it anymore.

Yeah, nothing, Steve, All right, Well, anyway, I'm gonna let you go regardless because I don't think I can help you. I think maybe send a tweet to Marjorie Taylor Green and she might retweet you. But we can't help you, you know what I mean. Like, that's that's beyond, that's beyond first of all, beyond the scope of talk hethen but also just like beyond the scope of just reality. I mean, like we got to start from some basics here.

So it just has the stench of post hoc rationalization, Like I believe that ancient aliens are God, and I will fit this narrative into that box from l or high water put intended.

Yeah, it's just And this is my problem with the conspiracy crowd, because I engage with them a lot, and it's just like it's never it's just open mindedness enough to like not think things through all the way, right. It's like people like the idea of rejecting mainstream narratives, but they don't like like fleshing it out all the way. They just want to have enough information to I don't know if it's just to prove other people wrong or what. It's just like just a strange thing that some people

But.

It's been said by by other hosts one of the shows that while it's difficult, we have to we have to give the benefit of the dam to people calling in. They may be honest. Now Poe's Law is there, and we do have sort of like we get the troll kind of sense coming in. But when you're on this side of the camera and I'm in the audience on some of these shows, all it's very easy to do that, but when you're on this side of the camera, you have to give them the benefit of the dam to just try and engage.

Uh.

And like you say, Dan, like there are people out there that believe these kinds of things for real, And so while the troll themselves maybe trying to have a bit of a laugh, we can still use them as an object lesson as to yeah, these ideas are still bunk, and let's tell you why.

Yeah, yeah, I agree with you there. It just it's just, uh, you know, it's unfortunate. I'd rather talk to people who are being real, yeah than anything. But we can't always get what you want, but you can try. Sometimes you might find that you get what you need. Ladies and gentlemen. That's that's the closest that greg our producer will ever let me come to reproducing song lyrics, because he will yell at me otherwise if any if even so much as a pitch change in my voice comes out, that's it.

You go to amiss that much. The YouTube's annoy is a bit hat trigger. So we got to be careful.

Yeah, let's talk to another caller though, shall we. We have Eduardo, who I just recently spoke to on Truth Wanted on Friday, calling in again on TALKA that it is called in Talkithen before EDWARDO from Brazil live on Talk Heathen. What's going on? Eduardo? You are live? If you can there, we go Hello, Eduardo?

Did you hear me?

Yeah? Right, we can hear you. Now, what's up?

I think it's okay? So you'll for a question out there. I don't even know if you remember doing that for a question, as do. I saidistic call If if I'm a lawyer, would I accept the same kind of evidence that I accept for spiritism?

Yes?

I said that. After our we had a conversation for those who aren't familiar, a conversation on truth wanted and uh, we talked to you, talked about your evidence, and I was surprised by the caliber of your evidence. And after the call, I made the comment, because you had mentioned you were a lawyer, that if you were to present the evidence you gave me in a court of law, if you thought that would be acceptable evidence. So I'm curious to see your response to that is.

Incredible as it may seem to you, is actually yes, there's actually precedent for that here.

And uh, but so so, just to just to reiterate, because the evidence you gave me, we were talking about reincarnation, and the evidence you gave me, Eduardo was well, you know how sometimes you meet somebody and it feels like you've known them their entire life.

That's evidence for reincarnation. And and I was surprised that that was what you gave me.

That's probably yeah, but that's that's the that's the thing.

Uh.

And it's actually a pretty I wasn't part of that. I know that as as as precedent, and uh, it was a pretty It is a It is actually a pretty delicated case because it's like it's as let's call a show house. I guess that's that caught on fire. And and most people died because they couldn't get out of there.

And uh during the.

Trial, Uh, one of the lawyers of the the the the owner, decided to actually also a medium. And uh and and well he kind of did that. Nobody thought that that would be acceptable, despite the guy has a history.

He was the wait, wait, hold on this court, this case you're involved in, they accepted the testimony of a medium, like in lieu of somebody else's testimony, like they were speaking through them or something. Why was the medium there?

Yeah, it was to talk on behalf of these victims. That's why I say that it's a pretty delicate key.

Okay, yeah yeah. I First of all, any medium that says they can speak on behalf of people who have passed is a fraud sterre first and foremost. I'll be the first to say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So.

Actually and so did she said? You know, probably because medians only the Seius guy, they don't choose the the contact their context.

So well, this is I mean, mediums make up the fact that they are contacting the dead and pretend to be somebody else.

And have been caught out so many times. You can just look at there's compilations of mediums getting it horrifically wrong. And one of my favorites is one medium who believed that they could find or could talk to the spirits of deceased people and were shown a photo of a little girl and said, well, can you can you detect whether she's there? And the photo was of the woman that was handing her the photo as a child. Yeah.

And no, and that's the thing. So so the exa said he probably wouldn't did he actually? Uh, well, was contacted And I remember that case because at that time I wasn't. I wasn't I didn't believe I was already graduated invalid everything. So the problem is he did he got it right the things that people didn't know, and and the problem is is it wasn't supposed to be

Yes, what's the point? Wait? Wait, can I ask the frank question. Were you actually a part of this case personally or are you just reporting something that happened in Brazil.

No, no, no, no, it's it's but it's but it's precedent, it's it's it's uh, okay.

But you but you weren't involved in this case yourself professionally.

No no, no, no.

No, okay, okay, because if you were, I was gonna be like Eduardo, you got to up your lawyering game.

That's the thing the other side, the other side actually asked for it to be from well, but it wasn't.

Shut up, really, are you serious? Way the other Oh my god, no, that's terrible.

Right here.

Yeah, that's literally in Phoenix, right, that's not even a joke.

That is actually the plot of Phoenix right in the first episodes.

That's a problem. It's it's I don't see. I wouldn't do it if if I was the lawyer, not because I don't believe, because I actually do, but because it's relevant. I mean, if you commit a crime, there are two victims, them the viti of the crime, and that's the state, because the state can't allow the crime. So and in this case it was negligies, so the vision sets something. It isn't relevant.

Yes, I agree, except some people think that actually it counted on the on the measure of the pinet, although you could be that because it's just accepted.

But it wasn't in the.

Let me let me stop you that change. Please please, let me let me ask is the purpose of this core that you are making today to try and advocate for the existence of the spiritual.

Yeah are you? Are you pro mediums?

No?

No, no, no, okay, okay some of them by some of them, though, let's talk about that, because I think that leads credence to some of your other ideas when it comes to spiritism. Why should I believe literally any medium ever.

Well, you should believe when you didn't feel a questionnaire, for example, and they give details of your life that nobody knows, quoting passages of your life. It's not in general, not ah, you know it happened when you were really quoting.

That's when it's it's okay. So I'm gonna I want to rack off a few terms here at water, hot, reading cold. Ran Barnum statements that there are so many psychological tricks, especially in the day and age of social media, Like if I go to a medium, I bet they could tell me so many things about me just by watching the videos I've been in. Like, you're not being very convincing their chief. There are so many ways to make the credulous believe that you can.

You can.

You have knowledge beyond there, beyond the thing. You don't have to be flipping. Peter Popp was it.

Yeah, I mean, like, look, in today's world, it's even harder. Sorry, it's even easier to get away with it because all you can have to do is google somebody's name before you meet them, and you find their social media. You can find a whole bunch of stuff about them. And

That's that's exactly that. I don't think I've seen it, but issue, well, everybody say that. But if she knew me, uh you know, I mean you should knew me well for my whole life? Who who was titled? Like just for the kind of frame of mind that I that I kind of guy you would it would actually give some reasons because I don't press easily. It sounds like that.

Okay, wait, okay, wait, ed WARDO, ed WARDO. Here's what you do. Okay, here's what you do. You say you know a medium, you know a medium that you like, right, and you get them to talk to me on this show? Can you get them to talk to one of us on the Collin Show. Can we make that happen?

I don't know, I don't know they speak English, but true.

Okay, okay, if you can, if you can talk, if you can get a medium to talk to one of our college shows, and we will not be paying a dime. By the way, we won't pay for it. If they ask for money, the ASA will not We will not give money the fraudsters. I'm just to let you know right now. But if they're willing to do it, maybe

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, well let me say, let's just say something, by the way, series me just actually don't ask for money. They can be paid for that. They can mean, they can't even accept the nations.

I mean, uh well, maybe okay, maybe I'll talk with our producer. Maybe we can arrange a good donation if if we feel like the medium has you know, fulfilled our criteria or something. All right, no, no, Richard, Richard is shaking his head at me. No, we won't even do that. We won't even we won't even pretend. Never mind. But okay, fine, if if they're if they're good mediums and they won't accept money, even better, right, we'll take free mediums, but we'll talk to them on the show.

There's more motivations than money as well. If you are convinced that you have powers and your delusional, do you still want to sort of show your powers? And any time that any supernatural phenomena has been actually independently tested, it's always been found.

I'll do this, Okay, maybe okay, we won't do the ACA. Maybe I'll put up my own personal money. How about that, I'll pay them myself. If if I'm convinced that that the medium did their job and we can put it in a pot somewhere.

I mean, you know, James Randy for years, million dollars waiting for you if you can prove the supernatural, and no one ever did so.

Yeah, but that would make for some good content, I think good Ward. Oh, I'd be willing to do that.

I mean, I mean, it's there, willing to call in and bl it free. But don't don't don't bleed men. Don't don't give them money because that actually, that actually to fear, and that actually can lead if the guys are shogging off to be used, that can lead them to a pretty dark place.

What do you mean?

Yeah, because if you, if you, if you use those gifts and and and for money for any advantage, and it's uh, you start attracting less serious spirits and then sometimes evil spirits, and uh, you go to a pretty dark place. I know somebody who did that.

I don't know. I don't know, man. That's that's that's a whole other can of worms. I don't know if I can talk to you about the personal motivations of evil spirits with you, after everything we talked to we're at a time with this call. Man. We've already talked about so much other stuff.

But I do.

I do enjoy talking with you. You do present a very interesting perspective that I enjoy exploring with you. But I have to let you go now because we've got some other folks on the line. Edwinald. If you can do, if you can find a medium to talk to us on the show, I will. I will give you a I don't know, standing ovation, because that's that's doing first of all, let's do and work for us, all right, let's be real. That's given us content. So I'll thank

It's just a story. I'm going to tell you some stories and hope they convince it like them, then they're not, And I don't really know what to do with that. Yeah, when we bang on about wanting evidence, but it really is important because I can tell stories. It doesn't mean that true.

I mean, I've been getting adds on my Reddit for like mediums in the California area specifically. I don't know why. I think there's some sort of California medium company.

I mean, I definitely saw that story that was going around about a little person who was convicted of fraud for using tarot cards. Different people. They said, there's a small medium at large here.

I found the business. Yeah, I won't say their name out loud, but there is a specific psychic business that I've been getting a lot of advertisements for so at least some of them are asking for money. Maybe those are just the fake ones and not the real, the real mediums, you know, because that's the thing too, If if mediumship was real, right, there would inevitably, inevitably be people that would fake it. So you know, that is something to consider.

And it's like, don't you find it schange that every time someone goes in for like past life, for agression hypnosis and stuff, they always had a really interesting life. It was never you're born, you got polio at seven and died and that's it.

It's always, oh you were Jesus.

Actually, yeah, you're a maid in the in the houses of the courts of Versaillah whatever. It's always really interesting. You never just your name was Jeff and you died of consumption.

Your name was Jeff, and you just you did walk both ways before crossing the street one day, and that was it. So yeah, I don't know, it never seems to be that way, but you're right. Yeah, I just want to talk to the medium on talk ethen. That'd be sick, to be sick. I would love that so much, honestly. But anyway, let's let's get to our next caller. Here we have D who is calling in from Iowa and D you are live on talk Ethan. What's going on?

Hey, guys, how are you good?

Good? Deep? Thanks for wading on the line. What can we do for you today?

No worries, no worries. Look, I just want to throw out there to your first caller, how obscene it is to tell somebody they didn't try hard enough. When I was little, my mother was excessively physical with me, and one day, after a particularly horrendous event, I actually passed out just from trauma and got myself a vision of Jesus. He wasn't there to help or anything. He just stood there looking at me, and I just felt this. I

That's that's really, that's that's Rody. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. I think if Jesus was real and he really cared about us, like you know, maybe he shouldn't show up in times of trauma and you should just you know, be around for you know, other things besides the worst moments in our life. Really sorry to hear that that happened to you.

No, yeah, thank you.

I know now, of course that it wasn't really Jesus, but at that age.

This is kind of ironic.

Is that my mom put up that that. You know, I'm sure you've all seen that portrait, the light skinned, brown haired, blue eyed Jesus looking up with a soft light falling gently on his face. And you know, my mom put that picture up in my room. I didn't put it up there.

Mom did.

And I feel so enraged when Christians tell us that, you know, people showing out thousands of dollars to the healer on TV, speaking in tongues and saying I got somebody out there with liver disease and blah blah blah.

Yeah, it's unfortunate, like like mediums, those people they take advantage of other people, and yeah, it's it's it's not a good scene. We're totally against those types of people as well. The worst, the worst kinds of Christians, honestly, are those kinds, the ones that profit over people in uh in times of desperateness.

And we have colleagues in the community here that have presented on these shows and I'm not going to name names, but you can find their testimony on videos that desperately desperately wanted God to be real. They agonized over losing their faith and it was the most painful thing that happened to them to lose it because it was their life, their whole life. But they couldn't keep the faith because

Now.

I've never been a believer, not really, so I don't have that kind of personal experience of losing faith, but I can imagine how gut wrenching it can be to have something so important to not torn away but just break down and have nothing to replace it other than the cold, hard light of reality. So yeah, I vicariously can get on board with that anger, that the arrogance of these people who would say that you just weren't good enough, didn't pray hard enough.

You were a real Christian?

Yeah, the no true Scotsman finds in thee Oh.

But yeah, I just hope he's still listening and knows what a jackass he sounded like when he said that.

Oh he knows, that's what it was. That's what he's here for. Starting to laugh. But as we've said before, he may have been taking the piss, But there are plenty of people out there who honestly do believe that, and they have to because if they come down to the fact that it doesn't matter how hard you pray, it doesn't matter how much you believe, there is nobody listening, then they would have to come face to face with the reality that they don't have Daddy in the sky

Yeah, there's always a moral hierarchy that has to be set, and the hierarchy is that believers are always better than non believers. So if you are a non believer, it is something that's your fault. It has to be something that's your fault, because if it's not, then what's this hierarchy for?

Right?

Why am I doing all this work? Why am I going to church? Why am I praying? Why am I going to Bible study? Why am I censoring the words that I speak? Why do I have to wait for sex before marriage? Why am I doing all this stuff? If none of it is real, right, there has to be some sort of justification so at least you get something out of it, and that's just part of the con of it all. Unfortunately.

Well, and I just wanted to say, you know, it's Sunday afternoon, lots of people have been to church, and if you had somebody tell that to you today, please know that this is not anything that you are or are not doing that. If your pastor has to tell you that, then he doesn't really know what he's talking about at all.

Amen. Amen, there's hope anything sign and pre tweet D I'm all about it.

I love it.

Thank you for that. Was there anything else you want to share with us before we let you go today?

No, thanks for taking my call. Guys, you have a great day.

Thank you, D you too, you too. Yeah, it sucks. It's the worst. It's one of my Like, I've been doing this stuff long enough to where a lot of stuff doesn't annoy me too much anymore because you kind of just hear stuff over and over again, the whole you were never a Christian thing. That's the one that still kind of gets me a little bit, being honest, because.

It's basically, say, call me a liar without calling me a liar. Yeah.

Yeah, it's just a it's a self referential cage that you put yourself into. It's a logic trap, because you're damned if you do damned if you don't like If you're already a believer, think good, you already get all the benefits. But if you ever struggled with that, ever, then suddenly you just aren't good enough, right, And so that either propels you into Christianity again, right, so that you don't have those kinds of doubts and you don't breakaway from that thinking, or you end up like well,

Again.

We're gonna be trying to be real quick with this. We'll get to Musical Instruments calling in from Virginia. Musical Instruments, you're live on Talk Heathen.

Again.

We'll try to keep it real short because we're at the tail end of the show here, but we want to get you in some musical instruments. You are alive on talk Heathen. What's going on?

No problem, I'll make it quick. I've talked to you before. Dan. I wanted to talk to Jamie really quick about what he said at the beginning of the show about I don't want to misquote you, Jamie. You said something about if there was one thing you could take from the religions or people who believed, it would be that idea that there's a plan and then everything.

So that's something like what you said. The comfort in believing that no matter how bad things can get, that it's it's for a reason, and that the realization that the world and the universe at large is not planned, it just is gives very little in the way of comfort, but can give freedom. I'm an optimistic nihilist myself.

Okay, And with that freedom, I'm free to paint my own picture of what I believe. So I don't I don't fall into the binary Christian non Christian, because that I see as a trap. I see it as a it's not a place I want to go. That either it is or it is, And I look at other books, I look at other sources. But what I'm really interested in is how we can find that that idea that everything is okay and always will be it won't.

Sometimes bad things happen for no reason.

Yeah, I think that's that's that's Unfortunately a disadvantage of our position, right, being a non believer position, is that we don't really have a higher power to ascribe to things both good and bad. Right, So if the universe just is what it is, the universe just is.

What it is.

We're thankful for the times when things are good to us, and we're hopeful when times when things are bad to us that the bad times won't last as long. And that's pretty much all we can do. But we also think it's the most honest thing we can do, because I mean, if we just fly to ourselves and think that there is something else out there watching over us,

What do you think lying to one's sell are we know the authors of our own our own journeys so to speak? I guess I don't understand the lying.

To the sel.

Sure. Well, so you know when I was doubting, and I'm doing this with the context musical instruments that I know that you've encountered Christian culture, you were a part of Christian culture. I remember our conversation last time, right when I was a Christian and I identified as such. I was at a time also halfway in the atheist camp, but not quite atheist, right. I was kind of going through this back and forth, and I kept myself in

I think what atheism is doing to push back against religion is necessary. I think religion has to be pushed back against.

Is just an answer to a question, do you believe in? Yeah? Yeah, ant he apologetic whoever.

Is doing the pushing back to be done, I agree with.

That, Yeah, sure, sure, absolutely, that's what we're here for. Baby, Yeah, we're about and that's necessary. But I mean, on a personal level, what's wrong with with seeking? I don't see any.

Problem as long as it doesn't harm others or I'm not spreading you know mine is anyone else? What's wrong with the personal journey?

Because the you thought patterns that are required to engage in belief of higher powers, supernatural things I believe are inherently flawed and much like anything that can bring comfort, that's dangerous. I treat magical thinking and belief in the supernatural the same way as I would treat like alcohol or drugs. Yeah, you can dabble, maybe it'd be cool and functional with it, but it's still dangerous and harmful.

Probably answer a little bit differently than Jamie. I think what I would say.

Is I.

Want to know about the danger though, because to quote, I believe, I can't remember who it was. If you can be if you can believe in if you can believe in idiocy, you can be convinced to atrocity, Like if you don't make your beliefs comp with what is evidenced,

So like again, I would answer, I would answer this like a little bit differently I think from Jamie because their open mindedness isn't the problem here, right, It's more about what we give credence to what we don't. So in the history of the United States, for example, there have literally been laws, right that have been made, the fairness doctrine. You've probably maybe you've heard about this when

Right.

So if you were to tell me, for example, what's wrong with me seeking? I just want to figure out more of the stories of l. Ron Hubbard, and you know what his teachings can find me. I'll give you a whole list of why scientology is bad, right, And you would probably say, well, that's ridiculous, right, everybody knows that scientology is bad and all the things that come with it. The thing is, I'm not sure everybody is convinced is why Christianity is bad, right, or why Islam

I do like John Oliver's analogy of that. It's like it would be madness to eat this bar of soap, so I'll just take a bite now.

I understand. So the world is changing to the point where one must take a side or one is not. If I remain neutral, I'm really doing nothing.

Is is that kind of what you're saying.

In my opinion, neutrality is always always always in the benefit of the oppressor, right, Right. The people who fought for you know, equal rights in this country had to fight. They didn't just you know, let laws be the way they were. There were things that were wrong that were happening, and people had to speak up in order for things

Yeah, And neutrality is a choice. Like people say, oh, I don't, I don't. I don't. I don't want to choose. No, you've chosen by being neutral. You're saying I'm fine with the statis quote.

Well, I didn't say neutral forever, but I think in a given time it's okay. And so one till I figure out where I want to stand, I can sort of not.

I agree it's necessary and important for you to take your time to figure out what you believe. I don't. I don't want to rush you in any primate process. I would never say that's anybody. But at this point, for me, right, I know too much, right, like I'm I'm too deep in the paint to like you go the other direction, you know what I'm saying, Like I I at some point I had to I had to do that and and and you know that's a personal thing. You got to figure out for yourself when it's right

No, you pretty well. You've some it up well. And I think what I take from this is it's not just about because I was perceiving it as just religion the versus the other side, meaning organized religion. But you would encourage me to be skeptical in all the ideas I think Jamie said supernatural and some other words.

Yeah, anything that requires magical thinking that isn't based in what can be evidenced in the natural world in reality, I find that the type of thinking that is necessary to go down that road can be warped and used and exploited, two extremely nefarious ends.

Excellent, Okay, I understand what you're saying. Thank you all very much, and have a great day.

Thank you so much, Musical Instruments, and I hope you have a great day as well. What a fucking fucking cush car. What an excellent call right there.

Oh my goodness, good ones, good ones around it out.

Well.

I wouldn't say that every call we've had today has been good. They've all been very useful.

That was That was my favorite. And here's why, because Musical Instruments and we talked to him before. That is an honest, fucking man. Right, He's got some fucking doubts about us atheists, and he tells us, and he tells us in the best way possible. And you know what we have is our job to answer that responsibly. We cannot be authoritarian in our response. No we can't. We can't be like, hey, you have to say Christian Christianity is bad or you're a bad person. That's too simplicity.

And we will always be willing to change our change our point of view. If if if again, if the evidence if reality. I mean, I've held terrible opinions in the past. I look back on myself as a younger manager, you bloody idiot, and I'm glad I had the intellectual honesty, to a flexibility of mind to go yeah, no, I should stop believing that and move forward.

Yeah. If there's one thing I've been saying for years, and it's something that I hold to more than anything else that I've ever talked about on any program, it is you can be right and you can be convincing. But those are two separate things, Okay, two separate things. You have to think about that every time you communicate your message to people, because you can be right till the cows come home. You can be right on every single issue, But if I don't fucking believe you, then

Yep.

That being said, we are getting towards the end of tonight's program. Thanks so much for watching be Shore to tune into the Atheist Experience later today if you like, and of course showing an episode of the Nonprofits of Between. But hey, uh, the super Chat challenge. We didn't get to it today. That's okay. Next time, maybe we can make uh uh, you know, Jamie do his thing. I'd

If The New Testament was a comedy, I would end.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's been a missince I've been on talking to and I and I and the script is different from the from the truth wanted one, and I get confused on my notes. So thank you, Jamie. I literally had to have a blind person tell me where what the prompt was on the page, which is not a good look for me, but you did it for me anyway, Jamie, Thanks for that.

I love that.

We'll love that. We'll talk about that more on the Dan and Jamie podcast, now premiering live every Sun. Sat. Saturn Day is the day in between Saturday and Sunday only on TikTok for Americans, so that'd be really cool. Okay, So I want to thank Richard of course for hanging out today and uh, you know, being our backup host giving me nods of approval and stern stern shakes of the head note for disapprovals, especially for ACA related funds and donations, and what we can and can't do is

I'll crew too. I mean, we we're quite front snogums and there's a score of people behind the scenes making it possible for us to do this.

Yep, yep, awesome, amazing crew. Look how many people are here today, all showed up doing their thing. An amazing amount of hair in various locations, mustaches, beards, sometimes in not places either. It's a lot of stuff going on with the hair with our crew, really good stuff.

I think.

Uh, I think I've read all the super chats. I think we're good for that. I think we still are having a after show today, right, that's happening. Yep, Richard says, yes, So go check out after show A tiny dout cc slash a CD discord to joint to see the fan run show that happens for the talking even after show. And with that, do you want to give some love rings? Jamie, you want to do the honors?

Love many love.

Look at that. It's coming at Richard's nose. Love snot take it there. Yeah, it's it's really cool. If if you ever yeah, listen this a audio and you wonder what the heck that happens there. It's just a cool little effect that happens visually. I don't know if that ever translates well to the audio audience of our show, but that's what's happening. So just remember, folks as we close out science broadcast. If you don't believe, this is

Believe, I don't hate you, which is not convinced.

Thanks, get everybody, have a great rest of your day.

We want the truth. So watch Truth Wanted live Friday at seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot cc slash y t tw and call into the show at five one two

Two, or connect to the show online at tiny dot cc slash call tw