Religions usually claim to be the source for all that is good, the moral code by which people should abide. However, their associated texts, and to a greater extent, their actions, demonstrate quite the opposite. The God of the Bible necessitates war, going so far as to command Moses and his army to enslave virgin girls while slaughtering everybody else. This God incites slaughter and genocide, knowing full well the repercussions and
how people will be impacted. In fact, it was this God who wiped out humanity with a natural disaster, killing millions. He brought plagues and encouraged slavery, and did nothing to solve these problems. But this is not unique to just Judaism or Christianity. In the seventh century, Muslim armies swept across North Africa and through the Middle East and beat
those civilizations into the submission of Islam. In two thousand and one, I stood on my rooftop and watched the smoldering aftermath of the Twin Towers c lapse when Islamic fundamentalists flew planes into them. Twenty years of war ensued, and this region is still wrought with religious divisions and unnecessary human suffering. Today, the Hindu populations of Asia are particularly harsh toward Islamic minorities, as are the Buddhists of Myanmar,
who are actively committing genocide against them. We have no evidence that there are any gods or religions doing anything to quell human suffering. We do know, however, that there are people looking to counteract the impacts of war on humanity,
as well as health epidemics, natural disasters, and general human displacement. Today, we at Talk Heathen and the atheist community of Austin are highlighting the good work by Doctors Without Borders, an organization that aims to deliver medical aid to people around the world who are suffering because of the calamities I've just mentioned, despite rel religious affiliations and insolidarity with humanist efforts.
While our thoughts and opinions do not reflect those of Doctors Without Borders, we do support their efforts and invite you to help ease the suffering of so many around
the world who need additional support. Please donate to Doctors Without Borders by accessing the donate button below the chat or accessing the link in this episode's description, and please call us live right now to talk about what you believe and why at five one two nine two or from your computer at tiny dot CC forward slash call THH. Get your calls going right now because the show is about to start. Hello. Hello, I have pumped. I am pumped whenever I hear that INTL thank you, thank you,
But I was talking more about the theme music. It gets me going. But anyway, I loved it. Hello everybody. Today is October sixth, twenty twenty four. I am your host, Jimmy Junior today joining the two beautiful, wonderful hosts Forrest VALKEI objectively Dan, gentlemen, how are you this fine Sunday?
Dude? I'm freaking awesome. I'm so excited to be raising money for this. While we were doing that intro, we got more donations in already we got's see here, an anonymous donor donated five bucks. Miranda Renzberger donated twenty bucks. That brings the grand total for this entire fundraiser to twenty nine thousand, nine hundred and fifty eight dollars raise for doctors of that border so far. So we are about forty two bucks away from crossing thirty thousand dollars
raise for this amazing organization. So if you watching out there, have forty two bucks in your pocket right now, if you want to skip lunch for a day, or if you want to just pay a couple. Most of the donations, the vast majority donations, have been five to ten dollars. So if you want to skip a coffee for a day and save someone's life on the other side of the world, this is the time to do it. Just
hit that donate button. Blow of this video. You're gonna make somebody's life better and possibly longer, but you might keep them alive in the first place.
Heck yeah, heck yeah, go ahead, man.
Forty two is a good number. You know, Hitchhiker's got to the galaxy and all that. So yeah, you know that's good. Luck will be given to you. I'm pretty sure if Douglas Adams donation exactly the Douglas Adams donation. But yeah, it's as it is, beautiful by no one, beautiful Sunday here in Austin, Texas. Happy to be here with you. Jimothy, Jimothy Jr. You know really good. I love when you give.
Me pet names. You know, it's great. I feel special, but I'm happy to be here with you as well. Today. It's not a normal Sunday, all right. It's maybe kind of like every other Sunday in a way around the beautiful fall time where we can drink our pumpkins spice and appreciate the leaves on the ground. But you know, today, particularly for the ACA, is unique. So I want to thank everybody who has supported talking than the ACA as
a whole for all these years. Today, however, we are supporting Doctors Without Borders or Medicine son Frontiers, which is I think not a bad first hack at that pronunciation. I do speak a little good no friend, Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you. Is known as Doctors Without Borders.
Yeah.
It's a global humanitarian organization delivers emergency medical care to people affected by conflict, epidemics, disasters, and those who lack essential health care. So this organization was founded in nineteen seventy one. Their teams work in over seventy countries I was reading today. They have sixty nine thousand members, volunteers and other people who help keep the organization going. Only one percent goes to their overhead. Everything else goes toward
helping other people everywhere. And I just think that's a beautiful thing.
So they're driven by Yeah, go ahead, No, I was just going to be a bill of say that they are so freaking cool. They're just an amazing organization. I
wish I could be as cool as them someday. And I'm currently tallying up the final numbers here because while it was just right, immediately as we got started here, we got ten more dollars donations, five from somebody named Nero, five from Chase Avior, and then the forty two dollars came in from X million, and I'm guessing the first name is Puck here donated one hundred and sixty kroner. I don't know what the change rate is. That's why
I'm retallying everything. That brings us up to thirty thousand and twenty six dollars that we raised for doctors about borders. We've bout thirty thousands protation gentlemen before the show even really got started. Amazing, amazing today in the world.
It would have been a good time for like a soundboard where I could hit that.
You know, I wish I had absolutely I maybe I can tell you what if you want you just say tell me to do it, and I'll make it with my noise and I can do your human soundboard.
You know, somebody, somebody's taking something off. We're going to accelerate somehow. An anonymous donor just donated another twenty bucks. Thank you so much, excellent, thank you so much for making the world a slightly less shitty place.
Dude.
Yeah.
At Doctors Without Borders, driven by principles of independence, neutrality, and impartiality, it operates on the front lines, offering aid solely based on need, regardless of race, religion, or political affiliation, saving live lives where it's needed most. So consider making good donation again on Google YouTube, ACA, we will not take a cut. Excuse me, I should rephrase that neither
Google YouTube nor ACA will take a cut. But like we already mentioned, check the donate button below the chat or go into this episode's description you can access the donate link. So without further ado, I want to just say what I have to say, but what I get to say as well. Talkhavan is a product of the
Atheist Community of Austin. We are a five oh one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism and the separation of religion and government. That's our mission. Talk Keithen is a live call in show, and we have open lines. Get your calls in at five point two nine two or from your computer at tiny dot CC forward slash call t H. I want to jump straight into calls. Jump it, guys, I'm talking
right in. You know why because our callers are awesome and they are waiting for us, and our lines are filling up. So let's just go. Let's just go.
We got you Herbie Shine for fifty pounds.
Nice. We getting pounds, We're getting dollars, We're getting it all right. So we're going to talk to Chloe in Pennsylvania, who is a theist. Goes by she her Chloe wants the host take on elevator Gate. Rebecca Watson had experience in elevator Oh that's that was in parentheses. I don't know if I should have read that, but in any case, you know what, Let's just move on and pretend that whole thing didn't happen, and let's talk to Chloe. Chloe,
you are on with Jimmy, but more importantly Dan and Forrest. Chloe. I am sorry, right, Chloe, are you in this or not.
I'm here, I should be.
Yes, there we go, So go ahead, expand what do you want to know about elevator Gate?
No, no, no, So I was there and I was there and witness it. For me, it was a moment of massive disillusion with the atheist community, and I was wondering if there were you know, now that we're about fifteen years away from it, if there's any sort of reflection or any sort of any sort of kke to be remembered from it. For me, it was just like that first moment I realized maybe the atheist community wasn't for me.
Well yeah, well so for those who want to wear Elevator Gate is a thing that happened with a content creator, I Boo Skeptchic was her name, And this was a conference that happened in twenty eleven where I think I don't remember the details exactly, but basically there was a a I think, accusations of being harassed on an elevator at this conference. And this is at the time where an atheist community is like debating whether like we should
be calling ourselves feminists and stuff. Right, there's a lot of this kind of discourse about like treating women in the space and stuff, and there's a lot of pushback as to whether or not, you know, how legitimate these kinds of terms are and stuff. Obviously, there was just a bullshit time in the atheist world that was before any three of us or even content creators in the space. Right. I was in high school when this happens, So yeah, I was a in high school. So it's like, yeah, absolutely,
that's a shitty time. It's a shitty time to be a woman. It's a shitty time to be a woman in any time, but especially in the atheist space online. So yeah, fuck people that didn't believe women, and fuck people that you know aren't okay with talking about the stuff that we do today, which I think the space is much more progressive in that respect. There's a lot more I would say, you know, women content creators that are making stuff in the space, and I think are
treated better. But I say that at the same time, I'm friends with many of them, and I see their common sections compared to mine and Forrests and Jimmy, and it's like it's still not the same. So yeah, there's still a lot of work to be done, but it is better. And I think it's something that's still worth addressing. So I don't know, that's my take. Yeah, I would not.
I have not to my knowledge, nor would I ever participate with any atheist show or network or community that is not fundamentally feminist in its values, that does not support LGBTQUI A plus people, that it does not support BIPOC people, that does not stand up for people of color, that does not advocate for social progress, that is not, you know, trying to build a better future for the world.
If it's just content creators that are out there just to argue and get clicks, I don't usually interact with them or work with them. And certainly if somebody's going to be regressive, or if somebody isn't going to believe women when they come out and say that something happened to them, or if someone's going to argue about whether or not they should be considered feminists, I'm certainly I
wouldn't have anything to do with them. But I again, as Dan pointed out, I wasn't around at that time either. So Yeah, as far as the idea of whether or not the atheist community is as a whole is a safe place, the atheist community is united only by the fact that we don't believe in God. There are good atheist, bad atheist, cool atheist, shitty atheist, republican atheist, democrat atheists. There's atheists of all colors and stripes and classes and
creeds and blah blah blah. But I think the community that we as content creators build and facilitate is what's most important. And that's why there are plenty of atheist creators out there that I will not work with. And I'm not going to say your name names, but I have specifically requested people that I know that know those people as well. Don't don't bring these people around me. I'm not I'm not uninterested, you know what I mean.
So, yeah, Chloe, how do you how do you feel about those responses reflections from you?
Oh? Perfect? I think that means that the work has been done, that that that the old ideas like because for me, and I just want to give you a quick background. For me, what was disillusioning to me was that I had seen that conversation happen, in more or less better terms, happen among fans and SANDOM communities. Sure, so when I saw it happen, and the way that it did for the atheist community, it kind of hurt.
Yeah, for sure, Right, there's there was a It sounds like this was at a time when the like the cringey edge lords of the Internet were still kind of the rulers of YouTube, where it's like, if you throw it an extra slur in your video just to get some extra rage comments, that was the thing to do, you know what I mean.
Yeah, and this is even before YouTube atheists. This is like blogging atheists spears, right, this is like at that time, like like this is when the term atheist plus was being thrown around because at the time atheists commentators were talking more about social justice issues and that was kind of new, and peop were like, hey, should we actually
do that? Like I thought we should just be talking about like the God thing when like here we are we talk about that ship every week, right, like we're we're that's become so much more normalized now by the time, it was like it was part of this bigger conversation and why that was like such a big deal. But yeah, Chloe, I want to keep letting letting you speak to that because you know, we definitely want to hear your thoughts.
Oh yeah, definitely, Because for me, as someone who is who left the atheist community and was queer and is all these other things and coming back into the space, I just wasn't sure has that work truly been done?
And I do think that not only has the work been done, it was done well, it was done thoughtfully, those who stayed behind, those who fought it out, those like Matt Dillon hunting, which you know, got to give him credit, you know, got to give credit to the long time old heads who you know, who who stuck it out and who have the scars to prove it.
Yeah.
Yeah, And I might have been misunderestimating on my part. So that's just where I'm going to go.
Blowie, did I did I read correctly that you are a theist and that you left when you say you left the atheist community? So what was that trip like? And I don't mean to digress, but I just want to kind of get your your I guess perspective or your experience. You were an atheist and then you left the atheist community and now you're a theist and how did that happen?
So it happened because I lived my life, because I had. What happened was was that when I left atheism, right when Elevator Gate happened, and then I realized all this was going on, and then I realized, like being in the atheist community just wasn't for me. I wasn't tethered and married to the arguments for or against God, for or against the supernatural. I wasn't marinating in it. So when my friends would have experiences, my friends would talk
about it. When I was introduced to it through social means, I wasn't really thinking like in those terms anymore, and I was more open to those ideas. And then once I opened up and realized there's a lot of gender feelings in this, yeah, that's when I left. That's when I was fully gone.
So first, so have you adopted a religion?
Yes, I'm North Pagan.
Oh okay, okay, yeah, And I'm trying to understand was being disillusioned with the behavior of a of prominent atheist figures. Is that a causal event to you then picking up like supernatural beliefs or those different things, because it sounds like what you're saying is that like there was this a bunch of atheists were behaving Shittaly and so I became a theist and like that that doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, and to build upon that because and I don't want to question your integrity or anything like that, Chloe, but I ask you, do you actually believe or are you just practicing it? And I think that is you know, I'm kind of piggybacking on Forrest there, but yeah, did you leave? Did you leave and seek comfort somewhere else because you weren't happy with the atheists?
I didn't seek comfort.
It comfort found me.
It's one of those what does that mean?
Like I what that means was that as I explored in my life, as I talked to other people, as as I got involved with people who were theists, I did not have any intention of going theists. I had no intention of whatever. It's just that when I was exposed to it, I found comfort. I didn't seeking it. I was fine without that comfort, but after I found it, I realized I wanted it. It's like I, you know, stumble upon a restaurant in the middle of nowhere and it's like a nice hole in the wall and then
that's an amazing enchilada. You didn't know what was there you just wented in Enchilada, now you seek it out.
I just I'm curious, though, are you getting something from this newfound affiliation other than social acceptance or because when you say I was thinking about going theist, I mean that's a little bit different. Going theist. I think would really happen if a belief fell upon you, right like I went atheist, but not because I wanted to be an atheist. I ended up going atheist because I could no longer believe. And so I would ask you did
that happen in reverse? Were you an atheist and then this North Pagan religion was introduced to you and you found no other way to live your life than through the North Pagan or in accordance with North Paganism because you actually believed it.
Yes, I actually.
Believed it because I had experiences with it.
Okay, So what's your evidence for Zeus and Thorp?
Yeah? So I don't know if that's what Chloe.
I don't know.
I Chloe is interested in actually talking about that part of it. I think you know, Chloe came in with a specific topic to talk about, and I just want to make sure, Chloe, do you are you okay with us? Taking this conversation about your beliefs or were you happy with you know, talking about the topic that we talked about.
Oh, I'm I'm happy with with with with with either.
But okay, okay, I just want to make sure that we're not like blindsiding you because you came in with a very specific query, and I want to make sure that we are answering that.
Right. Yeah, that's a very no, that's a very fair and and generous thing to do. I appreciate that, Dan, and like, yeah, because I then I would just launch into the same same questions I would have for anybody if if if somebody calls in about God, or if somebody calls in about Odin, I have the exact same questions, which, you know, why do you believe this thing? What is some evidence that we have for this thing? Is there
you know, objective justification for this thing? Yeah, but no, I appreciate you interjecting, Dan, thank you very much, because I will get run off in a tangent buy in cool.
I just want to make sure because look, Chloe, Chloe's whole thing right when they first called in, they look, I part of the reason why I left this space is because I didn't feel accepted in this space, right, Like, I'm a queer person and I don't think we're being very commodating, and I want to make sure we're fucking accommodating, right, because it's like, hey, listen, like I get it, there's a bunch of shitty people online, and it was a
shitty space back then. I look back at that. I wasn't a part of it at the time, but yeah, I look at some of the things that are out there and it's like, yeah, I don't know if I want to hang out with these guys either, right, And so like if the difference between you know, you being interested in a community like ours versus is am I going to be accepted here? I want to make sure you're fucking accepted, right. I want to make sure, Hey,
I fight for your rights. I fight for queer people, women's rights and minority rights whatever, because yeah, that was not a point of emphasis, you know, a decade ago, but it is now and I want to make sure it continues to be right. So anyway, that's my spield there, Chloe, No, I love that.
I love that.
Oh yeah, all right, Chloe respond, Oh.
Oh, it's just an outpouring of love, and how do you respond to that other than thank you?
Well, you know, and I think let's circle it back right. So before Dan, So before Dan brought us back on track, which I greatly appreciate, you had said though it looks like the work has been done, and so I was kind of hoping that you might even consider, Hey, maybe the atheist community actually is for me, and it is. So I want you to know that there is room.
Human rights are important to us. I think that we come we come to that conclusion just based on our skepticism, you know, when we can't accept the things that were given to us along a religious doctrine. You know, here we are left with looking into everything, kind of questioning all the things that we're told are right or are wrong,
and we're left with this human rights question. And I think LGBTQ rights are human rights, and so therefore I'm forced to consider, well, what's right and what's wrong when it comes to that as well. And what's right is treating people with respect and understanding that you know, people are people, they deserve to share this space, right, this little blue dot. The we'reld on trying to figure everything
out until we're not here anymore. And so Chloe, there's room for you just to just kind of build upon with the with my two friends here was saying a minute ago.
Yeah, you know for me, you know, and there's that the time at the time, people are like, oh, you know, it's all about the God belief this other stuff that doesn't matter. But look like leaving my religion, liberation from religion to me is so much more than just the God thing, because you can liberate yourself from a lot of beliefs that end up being intertwined with that religious belief.
Right.
Like we often talk about the connection between political views, for example, and religious beliefs, they're absolutely intertwined, especially in the American idea of Christianity, right, And so it's like when you when you liberate yourself from a Christian belief you're often liberating yourself from all kinds of other social views as well, and that is absolutely definitely worth exploring,
like in our space as well. So yeah, I just again just point of emphasis here, like, yeah, I agree that there's absolutely room and space for people of all folks to come into having conversation with us. And I appreciate you you you well, being willing to talk to us today even though you don't identify with that. But yeah, that that being said, you know, I guess I don't know where you want to take things from here. If you want to go.
See I want to see what Chloe has to say, and then I want to I want to get to some other calls. So Chloe, thank you so much for your call, and uh, any any reflections on what we've had to talk about today before we let you go.
Yeah, I just want to say that more or less that I don't identify as an atheist anymore because of the experiences that I've had. It is not because it is not because it was not because of that that because of Elevator Gate. It was the you know, trusting the experiences that I've been having in my life and finally not running away from that. What I am here for, though, and what I am will always be there for, is the struggle. So if if I am needed, I will be there so and I feel.
Well, well, if you ever want to call and talk about what you believe and why, and let let us do that next time. Your beliefs and yeah, these call us back some time.
Let's see that next time, Chloe. If you're down for it, because I'd love to talk about those experiences with you.
Yeah, I would love to actually talk about them, but.
Have great hell yeah, Asometoey, thank you so much for being a being a fan, being a contributor, and I can't wait to Uh, I can't wait to talk to you again. You know, old habits die hardfellas and uh, when someone comes in and talks about their beliefs, I got to get to it. But you know there's something else we got to get to and that's talk ethen to me. All right, first, I want to shout out aj Nero and Benjamin waiting on the line. We will get to you, but we have to do talk Eithen
to me, which is a lot of fun. Last week we asked you what's a bad reason to summon a demon? And here are our top three answers. Number three, Jenna Page, A bad reason to summon a demon to help with an exorcism unless you're doing it ironically.
That's kind of awesome though. Wait, I actually like that concept a lot, summoning demons to fight other demons. It's kind of like the Lady who swallowed a horse, you know, it's like a yeah, it just keeps going.
You know more about how to who would know more about how to appropriately do an exorcism than another demon would? Yeah? You want their help?
Yeah, yeah, that I think that would. I mean that we haven't we thought of this before? I mean, I see I disagree with that. I see a sequel to the sequel of The Exorcist coming up where demons are actually taking taking control. Number two X million, don't summon a demon when you're feeling horny?
Again, I have to disagree. Yeah, I do to better.
I mean, we could commit all kinds of things that God doesn't want us doing this. Yeah, but are are you being Is this like a play on words feeling horny? Like as demons have horns because I see what it did their x million? But I feel like I feel like a demon is good for horny times. I don't know. Number one, Mike Cattle a bad reason to summon a demon when you need help finding Jesus man.
I don't think that I've yet to hear bad reason to some of the demons. I don't think there is one. Yeah, I think it's always a good idea.
It's always a good same some of demons.
Kids.
That's how you make friends race.
That's the forest Alceiz stamp of approval right there.
I think one of my favorite memes on the interwebs is the person sitting in their bed and the demons sitting next to them talking, and it says, when your demons come to haunt you, but they realize they have a lot in common with you. All right, all right, good reasons.
While we were, while we were on that call, by the way, I'm sorry, I think you were there was a transition, but it was all right. We got we got a two hundred and fifty more Swedish kroner and fifty more good old US American freedom dollars as well, all for docs without Borders, which brings us up at this moment to thirty and eighty six dollars raised.
Yeah, freaking yeah, nuddy.
All right, thanks so much everybody donating.
Thank you so much. Remember also, folks, you can give us a super chat and one of us will read it. Most likely. Let's let's keep it within within the confines of what's appropriate, but we'll most likely read anything, so we don't even look at the prompter, you know, we just go or or whatever whatever they'd say.
Jack I don't know, Jimmy speaks for all of us. I think Jimmy doesn't look at the prompt, but you know, I think maybe we Yeah.
I know for sure Jimmy doesn't look at the prompt because while he was saying that, we got a producer chat that said no super chats today.
Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
See. See, this is why I needed two people on with me, because those you never know what happens.
We want everybody to donate to Doctors without Borders, to be clear, and if you are watching this later today and you aren't watching this live, you will still have the opportunity to donate. So please don't think that you missed the boat on that. So that is what we're dedicating to all weekend across all of our shows.
So well, with that being said, let me not screw this up any further, folks, thank you for your answers. We have another prompt for next week, okay, and that prompt is what fictional character would you choose to defend you during an apocalypse? And why, gentlemen, I gotta come to you first, Dan, I going with you kittle character?
Or that's it easy, that's it?
Would you say?
Leon?
Leon?
Asked Kennedy from Resident evilfore Ah, he went to Spain and saved the president's daughter, how much more could he do for me? Right? So I'm down, I'm ready. Okay, okay, good, that's it.
I know you've got something brewing.
It depends entirely on the nature of the apocalypse are we talking about, Like if this is a zombie slash natural disasters slash climate or some apocalypse like that where there's like still pockets of survivors and people needing help and like an existential threat that whether it be sentient or not like that kind of thing, then I want like a Tony Stark that can help me rebuild civilization, or like a Gandalf that can like you know, fight
off hordes and like give wisdom. If it's not, if it's like an all out like total nuclear apocalypse, there is no life left besides me and this other thing, well then the gates are open, because then it does have to be even a good guy quote quote that is the benefactor. And also the prompt doesn't necessitate it's just as a fictional character. It doesn't say it has
to be a person. So like I could have like am from I have no mouth, and I'm a scream super amazing insane AI supercomputer that can manipulate matter and and and controls how like life and make me live for hundreds of years. Doesn't matter that he's evil. If he's on my side and there's no other flipping things around, then I'm set for a long time.
The dude can betray you though, you know, I mean.
But it says to protect me, so like, yeah, the scope of the prompt is that he's not.
I guess it matters based on trust, right, because like I could try to get some random guy off the internet to protect me. It doesn't mean he'll do it.
I don't know, that is it. That is a big thing. That is a big thing. It totally depends on the truthfulness of the prompt and the nature of the apocalypse wouldn't be fictional.
The random guy wouldn't be fictional. We're strictly going fictional here.
Okay, all right, Okay, I'm being too nitpicky right now, so just ignore me.
That's all right, forst got you going forrest? Forrest?
Can he has conditional well, now, make my answer is shitty. That's why it's like I just I just take that guy with a gun. He's like, I'm gonna a supercomputer. What's the guy with the gun gonna do? If the apocalypse was like climate change? You know, shoot the tornado.
That I wasking more zombie outbreaks and you're more like, no the.
Bate in that scenario. You have a lot to talk about.
Right right right.
I was hired here to be the host but also be kind of the referee and break up the debate when it's going off the off the rails. And what we need to do is get this thing going, so back on track. Thank you for your for your very interesting and varied question answers. Gentlemen, uh and remember everybody, we are looking forward to your answers. We will read the top three next week. Put them in the comments section of this video, and we will get to the
next week. What fictional character would you choose to defend you during an apocalypse? And why? Right now, we're going to move to some more calls, and I want go to AJ in Texas. Does biology make the case for moral consideration of non human animals?
Interesting?
I would like to take AJ's call. You are on with Jimmy Dan and Forrest. How are you?
Thank guys? How are you doing. I'm getting great. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, AJ, did you know that while we were goofing around talking about fictional characters, an anonymous donor donated twenty five bucks, and then Sean Isherwood donated five pounds, and then David Hacksor donated five color of Calenadian dollars and that brings us up tod and twenty one dollars raise Doctors Without Borders. I knew that.
Did you know that?
I did not know that? But that is fucking awesome, you know what?
Yeah?
Nice, nice, But thank you.
Yeah, you're Your fundraiser is amazing. I've been following it and I'm super part of the work you're doing for Doctors Without more oilers.
Thank you, thank you so much, thank you. So what's up? AJ?
Soh cure?
I think I promised Dan on the twoth Wanted After show on Friday that I will put Hair and Forrest kind of on the spot today. And I'm on that co that you guys had, you know, with Chase who called about veganism. I understood his frustration about the issue with the age of the animals that we used to eat.
But I thought that that wasn't really.
The best method to determine the whole morality of eating animals the argument right, and I thought that there were a few points that weren't brought up, and I would love to discuss it, especially with Forrest.
Okay, so well, let's say best for last on this and let me go first, because I want to talk about this. So I am actually so Chase has had an impact on me. So I did. I did meet the ACA on September tenth. Okay, that was a Tuesday, and Chase came on and we were talking about like my life story, if you will, or my transition from
being a believer into being an atheist. And I can harken back to when I was like nine years old hearing the story of Jesus taking demons out of a man or two men, depending on what story you read, and putting those demons into a herd of pigs and then killing the pigs, and I guess in effect slaughtering or dispelling the demons, right, And I thought to myself, why did you have to kill the pigs to do that? So Chase popped up. I said, Jimmy, why do you
have a problem with Jesus? Killing the pigs, but you don't have a problem eating pigs, particularly in the circumstances of Hawaiian pizza where pineapple and ham go on pizza together, which is a different conversation. So Chase challenged me to do at least twenty two days of vegan diet, and I'm on day twenty five. So I took Chase. I took Chase up. And the reason why I chose to do that is because he actually makes a really good point, like suffering. The suffering is the part that really gets
me right. The way that animals are treated is a conundrum that I am in as somebody who is traditionally a meat eater. You know the why, Like I can understand, I suppose those eating animals right, And people say, well, if aliens or whatever came to Earth and tried to eat humans, would that be moral? And my thought as well, I don't know if it would be moral. But aren't isn't that already happening? Aren't things generally trying to eat us?
Like aren't humans food in something's eyes? I think so, And I think that sometimes humans get eaten and it's not right or wrong, it's just life. But we do treat animals horribly, horribly, and even if we're gonna kill them, do we need to treat them the way that we do? And that is where I have a lot of trouble, whether regardless of the age of the animal, I don't know,
kind of coming up with a with a justification. So right now I'm kind of in this phase where I'm analyzing, you know, my beliefs on that and I'm kind of trying to work my way around it. And for the time being, I'm taking Chase up on his challenge and going as far as I can. But I do think that that animals deserve humane treatment, if that makes sense, and that's a problem for me. So all right, thank you for letting me get on that spiel. I'm need to kick it over. You said you wanted to talk
to Forrest. I'm gonna give it to Forrest first, because I know Dan is going to bust at the seams with all the things that Forrest is gonna say as the resident Vegan.
Yeah, let me tell you why Dan is wrong. So the thing that I think is really no, I think that it's as I said on truth Wanded, I think that it is unarguable that the meat industry sucks, the way we treat animals sucks, that we need to be eating less meat overall for climate reasons. I think those
are unarguable points. It is very obvious that even if you don't want to grant you know, the human level sentience to different animals, goalsand bigs certainly know what's going on, and they Having raised some of them myself, I can tell you like, yeah, they're intelligent creatures that have emotions and have you know, the desires and feelings and things are like, I think the way that they're treated in like factory farms and the inhumane way in which they
are often slaughtered and processed is completely unacceptable and needs to be fixed immediately. And also, UH it is a major climate issue because you know that that much biomass, that much the the the gas production, the waste production, the hormones use, the the antibiotics use, the all these things that are used in order to try to skirt
around ethical treatment and and ethical land management. UH has dire ramifications not only for those animals, but also for the climate, for the land that those animals living on, for the populations those animals are feeding. Occasionally it's it's it's an all around shit deal that needs to be
reformed like dramatically. That being said, I can also understand that veganism might not be a viable option for everybody for either economic reasons, which I think we made the point earlier on the last show that like, as more vegan options become more available and more proliferated throughout the economy, they'll become cheaper and more affordable. That's great. I think eating bugs is really cool, and we should be looking into more insect proteins as another source to supplant a
lot of animal or not animal party. A lot of mammal based proteins like pork and and and and beef and even chicken is avian protein. I think that insect protein could be a major factor in replacing that that is cheaper and more sustainable to produce and doesn't have nearly the same issue of like sentient suffering creatures. That's a big thing.
Uh.
I also understand that when we do talk about totally plant data based diets and and uh economies, soy and and avocados and uh, oh gosh, what else the other there's a lot of crops that are not super sustainable. That like that that that take like a huge amount of resources to grow. Uh, that kind of sucks. So like they're the almonds Jesus, you know, So like there's not nothing to be said for the fact that there
are still resources being used here. And if you have hundreds of millions of acres of land dedicated to growing soy in order to make enough toe food to feed everybody, that's still not great from like climates and sustainability perspective. Also a lot of the times this is still because
we still live in a capitalist tellscape. This is still going to rely on the exploitation of humans, usually probably in the global South, who are going to be growing these these crops to then be shipped up north on big container ships, which is bigger problems not only for human rights, but also still for climate issues. So like I don't think it's reason And I could go on
and on about like little nitpicky things. I talked on Friday about how like wheat soy and preeup peanuts are very common vegan alternatives and are also very common food allergies, and so that's kind of problematic for people. But like I go on and on a little nitpiky things. I just think it's important to say that, like, I don't think, well, I think veganism is fine. I don't have an issue with it. I don't think it is the more world
endgame that it is often framed as. Like, there's a lot of issues that's around the way that we produce any kind of food in the world that we live in today, and that's what really needs to be addressed, and that would ameliorate so many of the problems that veganism tries to assess, as well as many other problems as well. That's my soapbox comments on that.
Okay, So but firstly, yeah, yeah, I do have lots of comments. Okay, Fortunately, I don't want to ignore Jimmy's opening statement, So I'm gonna address that first. Uh yeah, that that that was you on the under comments section and that they when I was watching the show live, and I thought that that was amazing that you started, uh the diet based on you know, on chases challenge to you. I think that's great, and I think that's probably a similar story to what what then has for me.
It wasn't it wasn't an atheist uh sort.
Of experience for me.
It was more hopeful lated first game, trying to change my diet for hope and then sort of learning about all the different aspects of uh animal welfare that came with veganism, with listening to to being a creators and YouTube and all of that. So yeah, Jimmy, stick with it.
I'll reach out to you, you know later, And Forrest, I you know, I completely agree without your assessments about regarding the kinmate is is that both veganism would create like producing vegan proteins, right and and uh not just for the environment, but sociological and uh financial issues that that brings. And when I do agree with that, what I think I had some more specific arguments that I hadn't well yeah, obviously I'm sure they have been brought
up before. But you know, everybody knows that Forrest, you're one of my favorites hosts, Like I look after you and I respect your knowledge and your perspective. So when you're on that college shape.
Yeah great.
What What what I mean is that I don't like coming from like are trying to fight you, but I would like to challenge you. Yeah there's an aspect oh cool, Yeah, Like there is like an additional argument that we could make, and I think it would resonate a little bit better
with being a biologist. So, you know, on the car with Chase, I understood your argument that meat can be part of a healthy diet, but I wanted to dig deeper and on your statement on that core when you say that humans have evolved to adapt to eat and meat and that would get a significant benefit from it.
And I think that you know, aside from as you pointed out that they put allergies and the accessibility in areas like food desert or or what severe poverty, it's just to say that the majority of people do have access to what would be considered an affordable and nu traditionally. Uh, then plant based diet not even vegan, not like a full vegan, just plant place right, because there's this agnuance, This is a difference there to My first question to
you will be like kind of like a pushback. What exactly you mean when you say that we evolved to adapt to eating meat and what is this significant benefit that we get from it that we cannot get from a plant proteins as quality?
Yeah, so what I mean by the evolution thing is that like the actual like the evolutionary story of humans. Meat eating plays a lot into that meeting. Meat eating is a hominine specific adaptation that like plays a lot into our evolutionary history, plays a lot into the evolution of stone tools, plays a lot of the evolution of technology in general. The development of fire was was mainly for what I shouldn't say mainly, it was largely for cooking.
We have evidence of cooking going back, you know, damn near a million years, and so like we were able to use the meat that we found. We were scavengers for a while, and then we actually started being able to hunt a little more efficiently and process meat more efficiently and cook that meat more efficiently, which made the meat more nutritionally beneficial to us and easier to and digest as well. And all of this played into specifically
brain evolution. So we are the way we are largely because of our meat made based diet over the past two million years, mainly, but you can go back furtherm that closer to three to four millionaires. But like that that's a big part of it. And what I think is really important to say there is that, like you can't derive an oft from an is so like you, I can't say that, like, yeah, humans of all eating meat. It's a big part of our evolutionary history. Therefore we
should keep doing it. That doesn't make any sense. However, there are certain benefits that we do get from I can't remember the name of the amino asseid. I think it's tyrosine that we can't biosynthesize that we have to
get from the external environment. And so, like Dan was even talking on the last thing, that like supplements are important when you're doing these things, there's certain things that you need that you would get from a more I don't want to say well balanced because that would sound biased. A more diverse diet than a plant based diet alone can offer. That said, you are right to say that there are plenty of people that enjoy a totally normal
uh uh life with a vegetarian diet. Look at the vast like the population of India where you have like a huge population of Hindu people that are culturally vegetarian and are doing just fine in terms of like you know that they're not needing some sort of meat supplement, but that isn't vegetarian, is not veganism, And so like you can still have milk in there, you can still have butter in there, you can still have cheese in there. There's still ways you can get some animal protein. So
that's that's my whole spiel about it. It's just it's a part of our history and it's still useful today, and I think that it needs to be tempered quite
a bit better than it is. I don't think it's any secret at this point in the medical community that like eating less meat is generally a good thing to do, and Americans specifically, it's kind of weird how we in America specifically, but really just in the in the in the you know, Global West like tend to or it's just say, global Northwest tend to want some sort of meat with every single meal all the time. That's certainly not you know, normal. So it needs to be tempered
quite a bit. But to say that it is either uniformly bad or like easy to exclude, I think is a pretty big stretch.
Yeah, a j. If you have some responses to forrest, that's great. Otherwise I want to bring Dan in as well as the resident vegan. So do you have anything before we switch over to dan?
Oh? You know, I would love to get from Dan as well. Yeah.
Yeah, So when we talk about veganism, I just want to make sure that we understand that veganism is the issuing of animal products. So it's not just the dietary stuff, right, It is the issuing of animal products in general. And I think that's an important distinction to make, just because the case that I make for veganism is a moral case. It is not just a case that you know, obviously biology plays a huge part in it, but more importantly, in plays a part because of the philosophical values that
veganism brings. And I want to bring this. I think I can make my point with this very sise. So I talk about this concept that Peter Singer introduces called the circle of moral consideration. Right, And so when we think about rocks, nobody is going to complain about me kicking a rock all day because a rock doesn't really
have interests. Right. Maybe there's some indigenous tribes somewhere that believe that there's spirits within all objects, but we would summarily dismiss that, right, because we don't really have a lot of good evidence for that. So, you know, that's not something that we would care about bringing that further,
let's talk about dogs, right now. Dogs, If I post a picture or a video of me kicking a dog on Facebook or something, right, most people are going to be you know, shocked, And I would say, justifiably show But that's that's kind of a new thing. Renee des Kartes, you know, the guy that says I think therefore I am. He was it was at the time they called themselves natural philosophers, but he was a scientist in any ways,
and he would do live vivisections on dogs. They would put dogs on boards and pin them so that they could see their circulation, you know, running through other says, and I know, and I know Forrest knows this because as he is, he studies this in school. And this wasn't just for rene A cart This was quite a common practice. And this is a shocking to us. But at the time their idea was, well, dogs are basically tumatons, right, they don't have souls, so they don't really have the
same level of moral equivalence or value. But the truth is, and I know Forrest knows this as well, is that the same sort of systems that are used, the nervous system and the Olympic systems are so similar to that because they are mammals, extremely similar to that in human beings. So there's no reason for me just to think otherwise
that a dog is. You know, obviously I don't know the subjective experience of a dog, right, This is Thomas Nagel, Right, I don't know what it's like to be a bat, but I can make I can make pretty reasonable assumptions that dogs can experience a similar subjective sensation when it comes to pain. Right, But when we talk about pigs and cows, uh, oh, wait a minute, they use those same systems, right, There's really no reason for me to
think differently. We kind of have some cultural bi is because we think of pigs and cows as sort of
animals that are just meant for food. In fact, we breed them as such, And the same way that we have so many different dog species, we have species of cows and species of pigs that directly benefit us as humans for products of consumption, when the reality is they actually still have those same systems, that those same life preserving instincts in interest of their own that aren't dissimilar to dogs or cats or any of these other animals
that we would be mortified in harming. But yet we continue to justify these farm bread the harm of these farm bread animals, because we say, well, this is for our consumption. My conclusion is that this is a blind spot in our reasoning. I think that we can move beyond this. Chase was calling in on Friday because it was celebrating fifteen years of not eating animals, right, And the truth is there, for thousands of years, there have been cultures that have been able to do this. This
isn't exactly a brand new thing. It's just something that particularly in the West where we don't really have that same sense of issues. Like, you know, God has kind of given us dominion over animals, right historically in the Christian canon, so like we've always kind of viewed ourselves as above. But I think the view of biology actually helps inform us, if anything, that we are way more closer to animals than we might think, including with our
systems of feeling pain. Right. So you know, that's kind of my case for why I think it is actually a justifiable position to take that it is sort of the moral endgame, if you will, as Forrest put it, to adopt a vegan perspective, So hopefully that wastinct enough.
No, I think that was great. In the meantime, in the interim, I'm not trying to pull the bullshit of like we can't do solar farms because the blades aren't recycled.
But you know, curiously, if we're replacing thing a lot of animal products, leather of gelatine, poresine, and bovine heart valves that we use for transplant patients, Like there's the mice and rats that we use to study, you know, disease, and like make it like, if we're getting rid of all of these things, what are we filling these gaps with?
And from a from a materials perspective, that would be a lot more plastics, a lot more textiles, which are damaging to the environment and to the communities that are produced. In the biomedical side, we're losing a tremendous amount of technology and innovation that would save thousands millions of lives if we you know, so, like, what where's the line there in terms of like service animals. I mean, flip dude, where's the line here in terms of like using animals
to benefit humans? Where we're like we were saying we can no longer do that.
I'm not against people using service animals. I don't think there's a service animal unless you're deliberately mistreating service animals in some sort of way. I don't know.
I don't just mean you know, sorry, I don't mean to get you. I don't just mean service animals for like you know, blind people for example, or for like like anxiety or whatever. Like I'm saying, like when we use animals as like tools, like when we use them for hunting, we use them for bomb sniffing, when we use them for drug sniffing, like that is putting those animals in harms.
To be clear, the vegan perspective would be there would be no hunting, right, so that that's one thing. But but but yeah, so I mean, uh. Peter Singer, I think, also talks about this in his book and Deliberation. He actually talks about the you know, the benefits that come with using animal models versus computer models when it comes to research in uh, you know, modern medicine and also well one he makes the case that there's a lot of unnecessary abuse that occurs. And I'm sure you're aware
of this as well. The perfume industry for example, when we know, like, hey, we want to make sure that this stuff is safer testing, we do that by basically, you know, like spraying stuff in like rabbits eyes and stuff and seeing if, like you know, they react to that, which is of course painful to the rabbit and stuff. So there's sure, you know, there's there's there's you know, benefits that come with But.
To play Devil's advocate there, like that is done so that if we find out the rabbit goes blind, we don't mass market that to humans, to blind a bunch of humans. Yeah, so like I'd rather blind one rabbit than like ten thousand kids who sprayed perfume in their face.
Yeah. Well, let's say too, Let's say this because you you you there's a lot of things that I don't think I can cover in a single call with you here. WHATEVERULD say is what the simplest case I can make, right is, let's say that there is a category of this is absolutely what has to happen with animals in order for humans to flourish. Right, Let's say that exists, And some vegans may agree with you there and say, hey,
like yeah, actually that exists. There has to be some animals that are done for this testing or this kind of thing. Right, does that category include my McDonald's cheeseburger?
Right?
I don't think so, And I don't think you would think so either.
Right.
I think there's definitely going to be right instances where we don't actually need to use as much animals as we have to wind, if not for moral reasons, we can talk about climate reasons, we can talk about for all these other things. Right, So, like, is is everybody going being vegan going to address every single issue or problem that comes we're using animals? Is it going to? Are we going to have instant solutions for every single thing?
No?
But how many solutions have we come up with now? Right? Because more people are adopting an ethic that involves the issueing of animal products, right, it has to happen at some point we have to make changes. I think you would agree with this too, right that, Like, look, we're going to have to make global changes in our diet. How many people are talking about bugs being used as a protein source? Right, it's going to happen. For me? That means making the cho changes in my life now
to do that. I don't have the answers for every
single you know, use case for animals. But I do know that there's a lot more solutions than when people give give it granted for and if I can at least issue as much as I can, because I'm never going to be perfect about it, right as if I drive my car, I might hit a fly or something, right, And the debate, of course how much bugs factor into this, But the point is I think I'm going to be living more in align with my values if I try to be as consistent as I can with my principles,
and that being issuing as much animal process as as it means necessary for my own life. So there's my case there, Joe.
But I definitely want to I'm sorry, sorry, I just very quick. I definitely want to just say I appreciate you saying that, because like it is a problem whenever somebody tries to oppose a new system, Like anytime I talk about socialism or something, it's like, well, how are you going to fix every single possible thing?
Right?
I don't want to go And I also don't want to try to get on this moral like grandstand that the people do this kind of sea lie anything where it's like Okay, well you're you're still buying shoes, and shoes are made by Child's Land. All these things, there's any moral thing is going to overshadow this moral thing. Yeah, I just that's I want to make sure that, like, you know, for the people watching, you and I agree on a lot about Yes.
It's just that extra bit.
So Yeah, I think I don't think there's anybody on the shows that that disagrees on like the bulk of the argument that that animals are treated poorly and should be utilized less. I think that, Yeah, for sure.
I think that less. It's so it's so disheartening to realize that whenever you're trying to work for some moral good you uncover two or three more moral goods that you also have to face another challenge that have to overcome in order to achieve the first thing. Right, So I think that I think that kind of speaks to the laundry list of things that Dan and Forrest kind
of just outlaid. But but aj, I'd like to ask you you want to do you want to reflect on that, and then we're going to move on to some other calls.
Yeah, no, absolutely, I think all of yous hit it spot on, absolutely, and in the last few minutes when you were saying that, you know, we shouldn't expect one hundred percent of the population to go one hundred percent big And I think that the conversation is more about trying to get people to realize that we can actually use biology to inform the reduction of harm, not just
of humans, but of non human animals. And we know that the use of animals, you know, as for as mentioned alier, the environmental impact is pretty big and it's it's definitely affects human world being.
But I'm really.
Glad that you guys did this back and forth conversation because that was exactly where where I was going. Like the second part of my question was going to be about, you know, uh, the biological implications of what how we use animals and how we how do we decide were to use animals. So because I often hear Forrest and Eric talk about the similarities between chimpanzees and you know, like the brain that the DNA and behaviors being so similar to humans. Dan mentioned, you know, things the news
for cardiac uh issues. My my teenager has, you know, about replacements, and one of the options was a big valve. We went with the mechanical for for different reasons, but you know that was an option and had I needed to make that decision obviously.
Yeah, but you're going to save your child, right, Yeah, And I think yeah, and I think Dan, you know, Dan alluded to that those two points very well.
Right.
So so one, right, I don't think humans really understand and this speaks to your question initially about the biology. You know, I don't think people really understand how similar humans are to other animals. Right, And then also this idea that we're not saying that sometimes, you know, an animal might have to be impacted for humans to survive, and and but that's that doesn't necessarily have to be the default of our our everyday lives. And so there
is a distinction that can be made there. For me, I think the case that Chase made to me was here, I am being this activist against human suffering, but I'm paying people to murder other animals just and it's okay for me because they don't look like me. And I was like, wow, dude, And so that's why I took a step back to re examine everything. But aj, I want to thank you for invoking a really thought provoking conversation between these two big brains to my right. Yeah,
if you're looking at the TV, it's my right. But yeah, if I'm looking at it, they're on my left. Who knows, it's subjective, but AJ, did you have any land? Did you have any parting show? Before we move on, well.
I mean, the last thing I will say is that, you know, my my problem with this is like we are kind of using the same argument that still using that humans are superious creators and we shouldn't be used in this kind of position. And yes, that's my ending.
That's important, that's an important point, and that it comes with the connection I think that Dan was making about Hey, how how similar are we all? Are we anyway? And I know that you've heard Forrest mention that mention that if you've been watching him at all for the years that he's been doing this, Yeah, I mean, we're all just kind of we're all animals.
Right, And to be clear too, sorry to mean a re you know, there's a there's a misconception as well that the case is like, oh, well, if there's a fire and there's a dog and human, are you going to save the dog over the human. No, I will save the human every day of the week, right, but like that's that's not the point. The point is that we're similar enough to where the dog does have some consideration, then that I would make a consideration if possible, right, So yeah, for sure, for sure.
All right, So, so uh this has been a great call a j. We are gonna let you go and continue with the rest of our show. Thank you so much for being for being a part of our being a part of our atheist community and call in any time, but we are gonna get going. Thank you so much, and I hope you have a wonderful Sunday. So uh, with that being said, guys, I could still I like, I feel like there are things I keep want to say say, but like I just need to move on. We just need to because amplished.
We could do that call all day.
Yeah yeah, sure, for sure, but you know what we need to do, and we have to go to the crew can because it's important that not only do people understand that we are all animals, uh.
But we are all working together the people handsome animals.
Yeah. Yeah, So thank you everybody for making this show possible and for bringing us three on for bringing me on. What the hell were you thinking? I've already screwed up a couple so I don't know. I don't think i've I don't.
Think i've worked with you. I think maybe we've done one show together, you and I.
Yeah, yeah, one what a couple of weeks or about a month ago right at the backwards.
Yeah, So it was worth it to do so I wanted to. I wanted to work with you again. So this is great.
I don't want we have good mojo. I think our mojo is good. You know you haven't asked. I'm not one of the people. I don't think that. Forrest said he doesn't want to work with I mean, there's still time, there's still time. But you know, I think it's going well.
Dan.
I don't know why you keep coming on with me. I've been working for you, working with you for like a year, and hey man, whatever, it's your life, folks. I got to get to some I got to get to some announcements. One that I am super enthusiastic about because I have bought a brick. Okay, I bought my own brick. And it says something like religion is destructive or something, and it's in the ground at the ACA headquarters as is Forrest's Dan, Do you have a brick there?
No, you know, I need to get a break there.
Yeah.
Well I don't know why I haven't done yet.
I'm so glad that you said that, because we are now initiating phase two of the Brick fundraiser and we want to highlight some stand orders that we received. So this week's featured brick goes out to Kim in Oregon. I saw Forrest vomit on a boat. Love you too, damn man, she got you. Thank you to your purchased Kim. We weren't going to talk about that. You know, what happens at the ACA bat Cruise stays at the bat Cruise.
You know, it's crazy. It was a different boat and it was different vomit.
Wow yeah yeah, well, well.
I guess Forrest. You know, I thought maybe you were vomiting at the bat Cruise for some other reason, but it turns out you can't handle boats. So it was a wild time in South America.
I'm just kidding.
Yeah.
Cool, well, Kim, thank you so much. Everybody else you could get your bricks a tiny dot CC forward slash call ACA Bricks and below the chat. We are running it again. I want to remind everybody we're running at the direct fundraiser to benefit Doctors Without Borders, so click donate before the YouTube chat to give them money directly. We will not take a cut of this, and we have to have to talk about our top five patrons. Who wants to read this? Dan? You want to read the top five patrons?
Shoot? Okay, yeah, I got it, I got it. I'm here, I'm here, all right. So top five patrons for this week. Number one, oops, all Singularity, thank you so much for being our number one patriot. Number two comes from Dingleberry Jackson. Number three Levy hell Vetti, who is also patron of the week on Truth Wanted on Friday. Thank you, Clevi hill Veddy. Number four was left in the leaves. Number five, of course Neil the six oh four atheist, and honorable
mention goes to Michael Alessi. Thank you to everybody that donates to the talk. Heithan Patreon. If you want to have your name red on the air, then please consider supporting us at tiny dot cc slash Patreon t h y yep, yep yep. And on that note too, we are going to be doing an after show after this, so check that out as well. You know, if you're cool hanging out with me, at least I'm going to
be there. These two gentlemen will not be able to make it today, but I'm going to stop by, So check that out if you want.
And thank you to David haxe Or for donating another twenty dollars, And thank you to Philip Mitchell for donating another fifty dollars and bringing us closer and closer to our goal of as much money as possible raise for Doctors Without Boarders. That brings up to thirty thousand, three hundred and twelve dollars that we have raised so far to save lives all around the world.
Man, this is really turning out to be a successful show, and I'm super excited about it. Yeah, thank you everybody. You know, just like taking time out of your day to dedicate your attention, taking money out of your wallet to dedicate your resources to other people, you know, if you believe in God or not. Like we're on the same team as my good friend's secularity would say, And so I just think it's great. We're going to move into a different call. We have had somebody waiting on
the line. We promised to take her call. I'm excited about this call. We're going to go to Nero and Tennessee. Neiro.
I got to say. We also we did a chat Paul at the beginning of the show, and eight percent of all people on the planet said that they would call in and talk about how God helps people, helps suffering people. It's eight percent of the chapel. That's that's that's hundreds of millions of people.
Yeah, our size is crazy.
Yeah, eight percent of all people. And they're obviously not doing it. They're not doing it there. Don't don't be a coward there on the internet and not in real life.
They don't think they can handle us. Jimmy, we're too tough, We're too big. I don't know.
All right, Niro, you are on with Jimmy, Dan and Forrest. How's it going going good?
How are y'all doing?
Oh?
Really good?
I'm gonna plagiar eyes. Never had a bad day in my life. Who says that there is so so?
Niro?
Your question, how likely is it that we find life in our solar system? Given how deep the Earth we've discovered life? Dan? You know, I think this has your name written all over it.
And well, we weren't debating whether or not if we discovered aliens tomorrow that like Doctors without Borders would go help those aliens. So yeah, we're definitely down, definitely down for that.
I mean, if they're if Doctors without Borders is going to live up to its name, they can't be.
They gotta go. We're in a human conflict with with aliens. Do you think the doctors without Borders would would would would.
Would be, they would be non combatants, they would have to everybody.
Yeah, yeah, so what better way to build that union with the.
Diplomacy. Diplomacy comes in so many forms. Never mind the.
Fact that, like we have no idea about any of their anatomy and physiology, and penicillin is arsenic to them. But it doesn't matter. We're gonna help.
We're gonna do it. We're gonna do it.
So gentlemen, I don't know how you feel about the likelihood of finding life in our solar system.
I don't know.
I'm one of these people. I'm I'm I'm kind of It's it's a it's a dichotomy. I Mean, on one hand, I have to say, man, I mean, it's got to be out there. There's got to be a circumstance where.
It is in our Oh sorry I'm interrupting.
No, well, it's fine. It's fine because you're the truth wanted guy.
I haven't taken my medication in case you can't tell no. So, so what I would say this is, if it's intrasolar system, right, it's gonna be onlike Europa or some other moon where like the water is frozen and it's gonna be like microbial. If like you know, it's gonna be sub microbial. It's gonna be like single cell like, it's going to be not super complex life at all. It's not gonna be like aliens with rovers and ray guns and fighting will
Smith or whatever. It's gonna be like, oh hey, we found something that we can only see through these electron microscopes. You know. So that's my take.
Yeah, you know, good point. You said solar system. I was about to just take it, take it every everywhere, you know.
Uh well, Nero specifically asked if we found life in our solar system, and like that, I think Dan hit the nail on the head. We were talking about places like Europa where you have this like thick ice crust, but you also have clearly like hot water underneath that ice. Like you have geysers coming up all the time because you have extreme tectonic activity, strong gravitational pull from its associated planet. And so you've got rocky core, warm water,
and a shell that protects you from space. Those are
the ingredients for life. That's what we got here on the planetar If we had a rocky center, we got water and the rock meeting of the water, and then we got an ozone that's protecting us from ionizing radiation, an ice sheet over the top of do the same, and so like, that's for sure the recipe for like the conditions where life could happen, and not to like just bring up the obvious fact that we find the building blocks of life all over the place in space
all the time. So it would be I would be shocked if they weren't on Europa to be there to do some bubble and to do some verbal and do some self assembly. So like not saying there is for sure life there, but I would not be even a little bit surprised if we were to find life in a place like that.
Does it? Saturn also have a moon like called Titan, where they think that there might also be life. Is that what what kind of conditions are there that are different from Europa.
Let me double check because I get these ones gonna use is I'm not an astro guy.
Yeah, check one of the ones by somewhere else. That's the difference.
Also has a subsurface ocean looks like but I think it's not the same situation. Europa has no significant atmosphere, no greenoss warning. Europa might maintain liquid water interior. Uh, the mechanism of tidal heating and radioactive decay. So that's like when we talk about the geysers, that's where those would be coming from. Otherwise I don't know where they're coming from. There's an astrophysicist or an astronomer in the chat right now who's screaming at his computer like, Hey,
you're missing out on this thing. It's not just radioactive decay, it's some other thing. Yeah, I I I don't know what the differences are, but I know that like if if you have a moon like Europa like Titan, like, I'm pretty sure and sell of this as well, where you have subsurface oceans or at least like contained oceans of water that are liquid and that are protected from ionizing radiation that I don't see a reason why that wouldn't be a good candidates for eventual microbial life.
Yeah.
The reason why I mentioned the deep biosphere is because from what I've gathered, there's been some recent research into it, and a lot of talk has popped up about we have microbial organisms living anywhere between ten to twenty kilometers below ground, completely separated, separated from the atmosphere, shielded from all of the radiation from the Sun and outer space, and so it's opened up the possibility of as long as there's some sort of heating process like a core
or geologic activity, that there's even more places in the Solar System for life to be possible.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean we're talking, Yeah, we're talking about like all right, Forrest would know. I don't know how much you know about astrobiology for us, maybe that's out there, but like I don't know, Maybe I don't even know if these cell walls I'm talking about, like they'd have to be very base in brain structure, yea, but not necessarily walls.
Yeah, I don't know even like like bacteria have cell walls but bacteria are also like remarkably complex, like people don't give them enough credit there, They are remarkably complex things, and so like, Yeah, a very very very basic organism that is prokaryotic that only has a cell membrane, doesn't have like the cell member would have to be a fluid posaic, but it wouldn't have to be nearly as
complicated as as like what we have here. It's it's wild the thing about just how basic things can get and still be a functional, self replicating, evolving chemical system.
It's almost like God designed it right, like.
Right, it's a start that you know, well, so we.
A fake get content. That's it. That's what this show has come to.
I hope we do find life in our solar system because I can't wait to see what the impact would be to the religious argument about finding life in our solar system. And you know, on another note, while I don't know much about biology or astrophysics, I do know a thing or two about technological innovation, specifically from a Department of Defense standpoint, from all my years working in defense acquisitions. I would be willing to bet that there is an active plan to get to Titan or to
get to these things right now. And I think while I can't put a likelihood on how likely it is, well we'll find life in our solar system, I would I would say one hundred percent likely that we are going to get there to Titan, Like that's going to happen. I don't know when, but humans, human beings.
You think human beings are going to make it?
A robot not a robot?
Yeah, yeah, I think a robot. I think a robot's definitely going to.
Get there, not send a human to Titan.
No, I'm going to get there, yeah, one way right another.
I don't recommend it for so many reasons.
So, Nira, what do you think so far about our conversation here? Our remarks?
Yeah, it was mostly just to kind of get y'all's view points on in particular the impact of what we know about the deeposure now on it. But for like how it would affect the religious standpoints. Honestly, I think it would just reinforce the fine tuning argument in their minds, and I don't think it would do much to dissuade the majority.
Now. That was what actually like help my wife deconvert, as she was very Christian and she was like, once she learned about how big space is and how like unbelievably inevitable extress your life would be just just how big the universe is, and how unlikely it is that we're the only place of life, she was like, well, fuck, does everybody get their own Jesus? Then, like, it doesn't make any sense that we would give the one special planet and all these other guys out here aren't getting
a God. And she had already been raised in such a way that she already knew every other religion was bullshit, So as soon as she let go of that part, she was like, nope, done. So, like I think a lot of I think you're right. I think a lot of people would stay very religious and would lean into it further and say, okay, well these aliens are demons. Or they would say, well, yeah, so life is all over the place. That's proof more that God is fine
tuning this and that and the other. Or they're going to say that, yeah, life is abundant, but we're at the extra special cool kind because that's because we're chosen with the God's chosen things. There's a lot of ways for that. But I think it would also drive a lot of people away and be like, oh, well, I guess I guess humans aren't so special after all. Earth isn't so special after all? You know what I mean?
Yeah, I actually we talked about this on Truth Ponder on Friday. NASA a couple of years ago helped sponsor
a program with the Center for Theological Inquiry. I couldn't remember what CTI stood for, but that's what it was from Princeton University, and the idea for this was, Hey, they want to know the sociological impact of what would happen or in the theologically also of what the interpretations would be if we were to discover life on Mars, right, because obviously that's going to affect Christianity in some way
or another. Right. And I actually think Freedom from Religion Foundation actually sued that project, and I don't think it actually went all the way through, but some of the people who were a part of that did at least publish one book which has been on my wish list on Amazon for forever that I want to get to and see like kind of like what they were getting at with that, because it's an interesting question, right, like what's the Catholic Church's response going to be they're going
to have to have some sort of dogma or something on whether we can convert the aliens to Jesus or did Jesus die for the aliens or not. I don't know. There's a lot of the questions there that obviously are don't really mean much to us atheist, but wouldn't matter to folks who are religious. So it is kind of interesting.
If I remember what the Pope said, he said something along the lines of he wouldn't try to force Christianity on them, but if any of them wanted to convert and beat baptized.
He would offer it. Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely a precedent for that. They've never tried to force people before, so you know, I think.
We trust in that.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, they offer them to be baptized, and that it turns out as the aliens from signs and they just melt and.
They melt them.
Yeah, damn.
It's really into melting aliens today for us.
I think I think Christians are gonna man. I would love to see the arguments, the justifications they come up with, you know, taking scripture and uh post hoc rationalizing kind of the way that it all fits into this. I could see Revelation being invoked them over and over and over.
Right. I think there'll be two parts. Actually, I think there'd be a subset of human supremacist Christians who would say, no, God actually made us dominion over all God's creation, and so we need to be the arbiters of right and wrong, et cetera. And then there'd be a subject of that with liberal Christians who would say, no, God, we're all
a part of God's creation and they deserve salvation. I definitely I'm going to write a book about this now, and so don't take my ideas copyright, coveryright coverry, trademark, trademarking all this.
Actually your ideas are owned by the atheist community of bost.
Oh no, all right, no, oh no, that sucks.
But how we feel? How are we at a place where you feel comfortable that your question was answered? Do you have any remarks?
Absolutely, I feel like everything was answered.
Well.
I love the discussion, and I'm gonna let y'all get on to other callers. The only thing I want to add in before I run off is for the apocalypse, i'd have to pick Kirby and Kirby fans know why but Leon is a good choice because he'll never run out of backflips.
Thank you, thank you. Go with the video game stuff. I agreed Kirby. If you don't know Kurk, I'm talking about Kirby like the Pink guy. There's a lot of crazy stuff about Kirby. He's basically an Eldridge monster. If you know the war, it's truly horrific. When you Thretty, well, yeah.
Well, Nero man involved. You know, I appreciate that she uh not only came up with some thought provoking conversation but got involved with the question of the week. You know that's true support right there.
Heck yeah, you know what else is true support? Donating to Doctors Without Borders, which we are doing a fundraiser for it this weekend, and for ust you got more thanks to read on for us.
Yeah, well we got another twenty Canadian dollars from David Hasor we're doing that call. And twenty more Canadian dollars from Lee g And I don't remember if I already said Philip Mitchell doing it a fifty dollars not, but
that was in there somewhere. Overall, the total so far raised the Doctors of that borders over the course of role for initiatives fourteen episodes and Truth Wanted and now Talk Ethan and the Cash Chat Show and all the things all together, we have raised thirty thousand dollars, three hundred thirty thousand, three hundred and forty one dollars. I don't know why I try to say it weird than that.
Thirty thousand, three hundred and forty one dollars. That's going to bandages, that's going to IVS, that's going to insulin, that's going to medications, that's going to keeping people alive in crisis zones all around the world. If you care about the people in Congo, in Sudan, in Palestine and Yemen, in Chad, in May and Mar all over the world.
If you care about the people who are suffering and dying at this very moment in places where they are not at fault, where they are just people trying to live their lives, and governments and wars and religions and genocides are going on around them. If you care about individual human beings, whether you were atheist, theist, anybody. If you are a human and you care about other humans, please donate to Docs without borders help save those lives
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In a donation if you check out check out the chat below, not the show chat, but the crew chat.
Twenty twenty dollars donation from Tina from Hamilton, Ontario said she met me at Baha Khan. Well cool, Well, thank you so much, Tina, I appreciate it. Hello from not Baha Khan. I'm back wafe home from Canada. I escaped Canada and I made it all the way back here to good old Loclahoma, a place where we justice mandated that every public school classroom must have a copy of the Bible endorsed by Donald John Trump. That's a real
thing that I was. That's not a joke, that's not a bit In Oklahoma, we actually just mandated that every public school classroom must have and teach the Bible, and that Bible must be endorsed by Donald Trump. That is actually what has happened in the hell that I live in. Good to meet you to Canada, for us.
I can't. I can't let that go without telling you how how blown my mind was with the fact that you gave me of that Bible that amendments eleven through seventeen were removed.
Yes, it does not include those specifically the amendments about not having slavery and that that race does not determine to write to vote that those that part is not in the Bible. In the in the thing, it includes the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence. And from what I hear all the other amendments besides numbers eleven through seventeen, That's what I'm hearing from it. Also measured constraints just donated one hundred dollars.
Thank you so freaking much, from that being your wallets and your hearts to make this whole thing possible.
Oh yeah, that Bible debacle is exactly why we have the conversations that we have like this is the religion is literally taking a education away from the people who would benefit from it most, the young people, the people who can be attacked by religion most easily. And this is how it happens, you know, removing the facts, removing certain certain things about our history or just the truth, right, Like it is true that eleven and eleven through seventeen
actually exists, So why take that away? Why we do what we do? A perfect representation, gentlemen. We have one more call that I'd like to get to, and I'd like to go to North Carolina. Homelander. Key him. Homelander is a queer atheist currently a university student. Homelander, you are on with Jimmy Dan and Forrest. I'd like to hear a little bit more about what's on your mind. Go ahead.
Oh my goodness, Oh this is just this is just so great.
I'm a big fan of the show.
I've been watching it for a long time, especially Forrest's just you know, I'm more of like a science centered student. I'm actually a freshman here at wake and so like, oh, sorry, so I kind of wanted to talk about, like see, like at a wake, there are a lot of like faith based groups, you know, you have like a Christian group, like a Muslim group for like them to hang out, you know. And there is an LGBTQ plus center and it's right next to the Women's Center in the Benson
Building and that's really nice. But there isn't really like a Secular Student Alliance or anything like that, you know, And I was thinking, you know, maybe once I have a little more time here at the school, like maybe when I'm like a sophomore junior, I should kind of like maybe set up like a group like that to say like.
Hey, hey, why would you wait?
Don't believe in any of this?
Why would you wait?
Let me tell you this, Homelander, as someone who has I've personally worked with the Secular Student Alliance for a number of different things. If you ask, they will give you the resources that you need. Okay. Like if you're like, hey, I'm interested in starting a charter here, They're like, Okay, what do we need to give you to make sure
that a charter gets started? You know, like if it's something that you're serious about, like the sooner you get done, the better, because you're only going to be at school for so many years, right, So setting up that infrastructure not just for yourself but for future students, that's a big deal.
Just saying yep, yeah, Homelander, I think I asked like why would you wait? Because you know you don't you have to hear that old adage like the perfect time is now. I feel like that's true in a lot of circumstances. You know, Let's let's get a let's get ahead of this thing. You know, figure out what are the kinks, what are the obstacles I'm working with? What do I uh, what do I need to get this done?
I mean, if you wait till your junior year and it takes you a year to really figure out how to lay down the success of this organization, you may be you may be departing by the time you're ready to get going. So I say, you got a good idea, man, let's go.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's just like yeah, it's you know, I'm only eighteen, I'm a freshman.
You know, I want to do it.
But like I have a lot of like anxiety, you know, I have Like there's a lot of like I guess, like emotional baggage and stuff that like comes from my like my younger years.
You know.
I grew up in a place, you know, like where Forrest was talking about how he was in third grade and like Hugh said, oh, you believe in God? Which God, and like it didn't go overwell, Like it was kind of a similar thing to me where in like I was in fifth grade and people are talking about what do you think about like God's plan for us and stuff, and I said, I don't really believe in God. And the next thing I knew, I was in a headlock.
So like, you know that, I am so sorry dude that you had to go through that. But let me tell yourself.
Yeah, no, no, no, you first, all right.
Let me tell you something. So so we could all find excuses all the time about why we might not be cut out to do certain things, yet we still do them. We have to really push ourselves to take take that step to stand up and be an example. And for you, you know, I think that that's possible. All right, So you are not only eighteen. You're eighteen, right, You are not somebody who had this lifestyle and it
was hard. You're somebody that took a step to go away to college to get to get a scholarly the scholarly exposure that's going to help you become a better person, because I'm sure that that's what you want. You want to be educated, and now you're actively looking for ways
to make other people's lives better. So instead, why don't you draw from the confidence that you should have as being somebody who withstood those headlocks, withstood all the reasons that you could have possibly found to go to college, and still doing that. Right, Let's take this great idea, let's take that leadership, and let's implement that you can do it. And the first way to do that, I think is to really say I am capable, right, and I don't have all these reasons that are going to
prevent me. In fact, I'm going to do it despite those reasons or in spite of those reasons. And I hope that's motivational for you, because you're at a time of your life man, that you're you're never going to get back, you know, like this is this is college, Like this is an awesome time to really branch out and challenge yourself and find yourself and help other people do that as well. And that's just kind of me on my soapbox. So I hope that's helpful.
Yeah, I'll say this too. You know, you don't have to do this by yourself, right, Like I know that they're like Jimmy's doing a very good motivational speech that makes you sound like you're on a like a noble quest to save the world, and it's not just you.
You don't have It doesn't have to be just you, Like I said, like the regular student a lines, if you are really interested, they will help gets you and they can get you the resources and you can work with them to make sure that you're doing something that is going to be like really really great for not
just you, but also the people around you. And wouldn't you want to hang out with other folks like yourself on campus and like be feel like that you're represented as well, right, because the alternative is what you go through the rest of your college experience, not being able to have a place where you can feel safe with
other students talking about these religious issues. I went to a college that absolutely benefited from having a secular student alliance because there were so many other religious groups on campus trying to like tell kids like hey, abortion is evil and you're and you're a slut for wearing clothing the way that you're wearing, Like you know, it was
it was almost like a safe David. So, I don't know where you're at right and how your college is, but I do think it's worth looking into and if you need the help to do it, you know the resources are out there. So anyway, we're really I don't know if this is exactly what you want to call about, but we are turning this into a hey, you should totally do this.
Yeah, I would throw in there, you know, like that just you said at the beginning area, Somewhere in there you said I'm only a eighteen.
Alliance groups too, Yeah, who do that?
Like when you say you're only eighteen, it's important to remember that that's you're now at the time when you can legally do stuff and people will not get in your way and demand you have a parent involved and stuff like that. This is your chance to be weird. I don't think I've ever told this story online, but
eighteen is when I started my first company. I filed It costs one hundred bucks to file an LLC with the Secretary of State here in Oklahoma, and I, like Sam Near, on my birthday, I sent off and did that. And I started a charity organization with my friends. And it was poorly run because it was a bunch of eighteen year olds run and we didn't do a phenomenal job. But we we brought in several thousand dollars worth of toys and clothes that we gave to the homeless shelter
and to the children's shelter in our town. The children shelter isn't even there anymore, but like we did a whole Easter egg and a Christmas thing for those kids, all with donated items. Were we brought in a ton of clothes that we gave out to a local homo shelters were Like we brought in a ton of food.
There was this soup kitchen here in Tulsa that was the only one that didn't require you to sit through a sermon to get food, and we brought in them several hundred dollars with a food Like eighteen was the second I started. I was able to do stuff on my own legally, and I took full advantage of that, and I haven't stopped since. And not everything I've done has been a successful. Most of the projects that I've
worked on have been failures. I can't tell you how many times I have booked Why we used to save up money for months to book a spot at the community center to go and give it free lessons and speeches and stuff and do community events, and they bombed and I wasted tons of time and money and I failed over and over and over and over and over and over until I got to a point where I was successful at these things and I was able to
make a career out of this stuff. And now that is my career, is trying to help people and trying to make the world a better place and doing public speaking and stuff. So like, you are at a critical point in your life where you get to start failing in the right direction, and I encourage you not to let the fear of failure, or the fear of your age, or the fear of acceptance, or the fear of permission, or any of those things stand in your way. You
want to do something, go fucking do it. And if somebody tells you shouldn't do it, go fucking do it anyway. And nobody gives you any help, go fucking do it anyway. And if you need some assistance and you can't find any, go fucking do it anyway. And if you don't have the funding, go fucking do it anyway. And if you don't have the resources of the talent, go fucking do it anyway. The only time that you shouldn't go fucking do something is if it would be morally problematic for
you to do it without the by yourself. But in most situations, if you're just trying to help people, the answer is go fucking do it. And especially at eighteen, I always say, if you are trying to find yourself, the best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of other people. So at this point in your life. The way I found science, the way I found education, the way I found public speaking was because those were places where I found my talents came
out the most win being helpful. When when helping other people, you find that intersection between your passion and your talent and what the world needs right now. When you find now at this point in your life, and it will change the rest of your life and it will make your life beneficial to the people around you. So this is your time. Go fucking do it and don't get anybody in your way.
Check.
Can I get an amen? Amen?
For that one?
Yeah?
And I feel great. I feel great after that.
I'm going to do after this crazy I'm motivated.
Yeah, yeah, I guess.
Like the way I think about it's like, you know, I'm a freshman and I'm already taking honors organic chemistry.
I should be out there.
I like, I'm already like getting all these hours, and I should like, go I should be someone.
I should be someone big on this. I should be you know, hell, yes, you should just like I should.
I should be going for for you know, like you know, it's just like you know, I guess think about it as.
Like I'm the I'm among the next generation of scientists. I could you know, yeah you.
Are like yeah, yeah, you know there are a bunch of mixing.
There are a bunch of people who I've not been born yet that are going to rely on you to take them into the future. And you owe it to yourself to get going now.
Man, truth absolutely damn.
You know, go ahead.
There was one thing I wanted to like mention, so there was Uh it's actually reminds me there was one time I like, there's an aunt I have who lives in Louisiana and uh, like her husband works in uh her husband works in like gas and like petroleum and oil companies in because of that, she's like scared by the idea of.
Climate change and she's decided that she doesn't believe in it.
So there was one point where I there's like a whiteboard in the house, and I just took the time to.
Just like draw like a diagrea of Milankovitch.
Cycles, beer, Lambertslaw, Photon's mccroscopy, like Albido and all this other stuff. And it was like, all right, so CO two has a high absorbent infrared.
Right, So I'm always saying this absorbing all.
That long wave radiation is going to heat up the earth. That's necessarily something that would happen if there's more CO two absorbents concentration.
I was like, yeah, so home lader, home, lad, hold on, I gotta interrupt you. I gotta interrupt you. You're telling me you can explain to me all of this, or you're explain this to your amp. But you can't start a secular group on your campus. Get out of here, Get out of here.
You can do it down. If you can break down Therma Haleaane cycles and Melankovitch cycles to an old person, you can do.
Whatever you want to.
Dude. Oh, this is so great, This is so great.
So Homelander, I see I see in your comments that you gave to our call screeners that you're a big fan of Forest. I can't.
I'm so sorry.
I can't disagree with you there, But next time you call, I want to see I'm a big fan of Dan. I want a big fan of Jimmy. We have been listen your success, your success has been born right here. It's been it's happening right now. And you're gonna get off this call and you're gonna go be who you're gonna be.
Man, absolutely, Oh Forrest. You want to know which video on your channel is my favorite?
I do.
It's the one.
It's the one that's titled A Flood of Nonsense.
I love that one. So it's like it's all of these make.
Exponentially more sense than a global flood. And then you just like put your hands in there and you're like, it is just I just I love it.
I love it so much.
I also enjoyed that video.
It's a fan doctor Victor Vendecca and all the d n D. I love like all the I'm just that I am.
And that's that's another example with with with with you know what what you're watching right now, this this stream where we're doing this fundraiser is from Role for Initiative where we're raising money for dogs of that boards and all of that happened because I've never freaking played a game like that before, man, not a serious one. I did a little stuff when I was a kid. I never really played a serious game. But I knew what Jesse was capable of accomplishing. And we were like, fuck it,
let's sink. I put damn near ten grand into that project, and it worked, and we raised way more money than I put into it. We raised way more money than any of our sponsor put into it. All of the funding that went into that combined, we have raised over double that now. And so like, do it, Just fucking do it, dude, and like like, don't be stupid, but fucking be stupid a little bit, you know what I mean.
Get out of your own head, get out of your own way.
I think, especially people like us who are like who are in sciences, who like to think a lot, we tend to overthink sometimes and sometimes you need to just fucking go for it and just let And when I say sometimes, I mean most of the time. Put yourself in weird situations when you feel when you get out for enough far enough that you just barely can't feel your feet touching the ground anymore, and you're a little bit.
That's where you do the best work. So swim out a little bit farther, put yourself in a little bit of peril, and make the world a better place because of it.
Boom Homeland, thank you so much for your call today. We're gonna let you go. I definitely want you to call back and keep us updated on how how things go. And good luck in school. Good luck in school. This is a tough time of year for a lot of freshmen, so I hope, I hope you're doing well and you continue to to flourish.
You know, you don't need luck. Study hard. Yea be fine, Yeah, yeah.
For sure. Gentlemen, thank you for playing nice with me today. This has been a wonderful, wonderful show. Thanks for letting me tag along. That's what I should say. All right, you guys are great. You guys are always great. I'm so happy that I get to work with you guys, and other people.
Are always great working with you as well.
So folks, you know, don't forget this week. Our prompt is what fictional character would you choose to defend yourself or defend you during an apocalypse? And why? Very important? Why reply that reply? Your answer in the comments and tune in at the beginning of next week episode to hear the top three guys.
Uh.
After show. Dan, You're on the after show, So anybody who wants to talk to Dan, you can go uh and chat with him, chat with Richard Gilliver. He'll be there, some of our other hosts will be there. I will not be there. I have children that require me. Forest will not be there because he is a super big time celebrity.
Uh.
Dan's right in the middle, Dan.
Because show this is the show that's true, and that's where that's I'm not lying.
I mean, Forrest has another show and Forest is hosting AXP today with the wonderful doctor Ben and I can't wait to listen along while I'm doing dishes and uh, you know, taking care of my kids while I have one of my ear piece in and nobody knows what I'm really doing. But I'll be listening to that. So everybody tune into that. And guys really enjoyed today. Thank you so much. I hope you have wonderful rest of your day. Thank you to everybody who supports us, who's
supporting Doctors Without Borders. Thank you for your donations for us. Any updates.
Me and my human just donated fifty bucks. David hacks or donated another twenty bucks. As far as I can tell. As of right now, my count is we are up to thirty thousand, five hundred and sixty nine dollars. Funny number on the end. Great stars for this show. Thank you all so much for donating whatever you could. I really appreciate it, and I know the people around the world who are receiving the life saving medical care that Doctors Without Borders so freely gives appreciate it way more
than me. So thank you so much for being a part of the not just the atheist community, but the human community around the world and donating to such an unimpeachably awesome organization.
Excellent. Hell yeah, Hell yeah, Dan, Dan, would you like to say anything as we close out this show?
Listen, you can do anything you say your mind too, as long as you have a parasocial relationship with YouTubers, they tell you what you can do. I guess no, that's it, that's our motivation.
Awesome, we're sending out love rings. Let's bring up these loverings. I hope they oh with that mail without fail. I'm sending love rings some doctors without borders. I'm sending love rings to everybody who's helping this initiative today. And remember everybody, if you don't believe, if you're not a believer, if you don't believe in God, this is your community and we appreciate you being here. But if you are a believer, we do not hate you. We are just not convinced.
Thank you, everybody, have a great sign day.
We want the truth.
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