Talk Heathen 07_0.38 with ObjectivelyDan and Sofia Spina

Today's Bible verse is short and sickening. Collashan's three eighteen says lives be subordinate to your husband's as is proper in the Lord. Well, I, for one, won't be lectured by a misogynistic imaginary sky daddy on propriety. My genitalia and chromosomes don't make me lesser than a man, And from what I have seen of men, there's no particular reason to submit to them. So you know we're equal, FYI. Instead of getting stuck on invented hierarchies and

dictating to each other, maybe let's work together. If I have aroused your ire and your anger, and you think bigotry in the Bible is just a okay by you, then call us because the show is starting now. Hello, listen to back proud Yeah, nice, nice, Hello, everybody, Welcome back to Talk Heathen Today at September twenty four, twenty twenty three. I am your host today Objectively Dan live in the studio in Austin, Texas and joining me today is returning. It's not your debut, but it's your

second time. Is there a word for that? Is Sophia, Sophia, welcome back to the show. Thank you, yeah, I'm happy to be here. Sophia. It's been a few months since you've been on, so maybe you could remind the audience who are you? Where did you come from? Are you here? To be honest, I'm not much at anything.

I'm a bit of nothing in a nobody, but yeah, I am a formerly religious chick who started thinking a little bit more independently, sort of figuring out what evolution was and it was very different from the lies that I had been told. Showed up at Atheist Community of Austin and threw my hat in the ring to start chatting with chatting with the public, talking to you people.

You guys may remember we had auditions way back in February this year and Sophia was there and is coming back and we'll hopefully be back on some more shows this year, so look forward to that. So anyway, folks, this is talking them. This is a live call in show, so we want you guys to call in right now if you can. This is a property of the Atheist Community of Austin, a five h one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheists, critical thinking, secular humanism, and

the separation of religion and government. And if you want to call into the show, you can do that right now. The number is five one two nine nine one nine two four two. Or you can even call in through your computer at tying not C C slash call THH because it's it's twenty twenty three, baby. You can call into your computer, smartphone, or you're smart watch. I was gonna say, probably shouldn't call him from your watch. I don't think the quality would be that great, but I could be

wronging. Actually I don't know some of those watches, man, Yeah, yeah, I can. I have the feature on my watch and I'd never use it. But it's like if I was a kid, I would be disappointed in myself because it's like, what is that not the coolest thing ever? We can talk to people through our watches now and I don't even do it very star trek, Yeah, exactly, what's up with that? So

I don't know. Anyway, every single week we aren't doing a segment called talk Heathen to Me, So this is where we're reading the top three comments from our prompt every week. So I want to read to you guys some of the comments from last week, because last week we ask you what is a lesser known fruit of the spirit, which is a great prompt, good prompt on that one. Number three comes from skeptic Spike, who says, lesser known fur to the spirit self love. You can't love others without loving

yourself first. That includes the supposed impure parts as well. And I like this because this is a wholesome one, and we like never get wholesome answers for anything. It's like, actually legit. So yeah, I'm glad it made the top three this week. That's a good one. But number two comes from X A Million, who says fur to the spirit grapes of grap obviously, so we're going back to the jokes again, you know. Yeah, a very good one. Our number one comes from I Theist, who

says, a lesser known fur to the spirit cogged dissonance. That is definitely a virtue amongst them. Yeah, well, it's one of those things where it's like it's uncomfortable. But I think in retrospect a lot of people are glad that they experienced that at least once or twice. You know, maybe not everybody, but I appreciated it. I don't know about you. You used to be a Christian yourself, right, So how long ago was your

sort of deconstruction experience. So it wasn't about twenty sixteen twenty seventeen when I actually was just decided to put religion down and be like, you know, I'm not going to advocate for this anymore because I got tired of fighting to say, oh no, not all Christians are like that. Oh no, you know, I'm different or whatever. I just got tired and decided that I also had reached the conclusion that you can be secular and moral, So

I'm like, okay, I don't need this. I'm tired. And then during that time, I started just learning more about where the Bible actually came from, the historical context of the Bible, started just reasoning more on my own, and learned a lot about science. Yeah, I genuinely was was around a lot of six thousand year Earth people for a while. Oh yeah, that's a whole thing. Yeah yeah, I'd love to talk more about it. But I also need to give the pop for this week, too,

so let me do that real quick. So this week's prompt is what is an inappropriate thing to say at a religious funeral? Now? This is this is this is a spicy one. Yeah, I don't even know. I don't even know if I have a good answer for this, but I think you had a really good one for this. What would you say is an inappropriate thing to say had a religious funeral? He has risen. Oh that's so bad, it's so bad. I don't know. I can't I

can't be bad. I can't think of anyone for this. But we won't know what you guys think, So leave a comment below what is an inappropriate thing to say at a religious funeral? And we will read the top three uh answers. Give a fun one. Yeah, I want to see what people say about that, Sophia. I you know, I hope if of the course of the show we can sort of introduce you more to the audience. But this is a call in show, so I think we should talk

to some folks. You want to talk to some people. That sounds great. So I see, I see we have Felix. Yes, talk to Felix. Yes, I love talking about sex. So this is Felix, him from Florida, who says that atheism destroys sexual purity. Interesting, Okay, we're gonna hit that talk button. Then it's a satisfying feeling. Isn't hit that talk about you're a live on talk heathen. What's going on? What's up? What's up? Hello? Hello, Felix. How's it going

good? Good? Good? Okay, Well, so I'll make my main point then, yeah, response the sex secularism created the sexual revolution in the forties, so it's inherent secularist doctrine. It's inherently rooted in the destruction of sexual purity. Hell yeah, I'm like that's good in my thought. I'm not thinking a ton of issue with you, Therather than when the sexual revolution happened. It wasn't the forty Yeah, it wasn't the forties, but yeah,

yeah, secularism definitely has ties in the sexual revolution as well. Go ahead, though, yeah, sorry, I think I think I meant the six Yeah, but whenever it started, it's just it's sexual impurity. I Look. My argument is if the values marriages and monogamy true, where if you wait for one person, you only do it with one person for the rest of your life, that's kind of shattered now because of sexual impurity caused by atheis. So can I give you some unfortunate facts maybe for your perspective.

One is that when you're waiting for a marriage and only ever kissing or having sex with the person that you marry ultimately doesn't actually make your marriage last any longer. So when we look at the people who are the most committed to monogamy and what I feel like you might term as purity, it doesn't actually save a marriage. So I find it interesting that you say it destroys marriages when in general that that doesn't seem to be backed up by evidence.

Yeah, and here's an experience I've had. I've known tons of people that got married at eighteen or nineteen or twenty, right in middle of Bible college, right because they want to be able to have sex with that person because they don't feel like they can. And those are marriages that tend to end up not lasting. Some of them do, for sure, But like, I don't think there's any of it, and that suggests that makes it a happier, longer marriage. There's another thing to consider too, Right, I'm

interested in someone who has sexual experience. I think sexual combatibility is important at least for my relationships, the kind that I want to have with people. And that's something that frankly just doesn't get brought up in Christianity because it's not a value that Christianity really holds. Right, we have this idea that, oh, we want to remain quote unquote pure for somebody, and I guess that's because people get jealous when they think about having sex with other partners.

But like, okay, that's just part of life, right, Like, I don't know, you learn some things, and sometimes you make mistakes, sometimes you have regrets, sure, but like that's also a part of who somebody is. And if anything, I think that's a great thing. I actually don't think it's a bad thing at all that this idea of sexual purity

isn't as widely held as it used to be. I would also throw out real quick, not to like pile on too much here, but when it's a pretty well known phenomenon that when super purity focused couples get married, a lot of the time they end up waiting a lot longer to have sex. Even then, you know, their wedding night, they don't know how to have sex. They're scared of it, they're scared it will make them impure in the eyes of God, even though they've done all the right things.

And then it ends up being an anxiety inducing experience and isn't being very painful. And the concept of sexual pleasure, this is something even girl defined of all people, has talked about, is not held up as a value in a marriage, is something that you should be aiming for, And so it causes a lot of marital issues just by never having talked about sexual pleasure and not valuing it. Yeah, so a lot of things you throughout there,

Felix, what do you think There are some good points there. There are some good points about the experience and not really knowing how to do it. I can't disagree with that. I would just say that the more sexual partners somebody has before marriage, it destroys your abilities to pair bond with that person. You've shared yourself that so many other people. When you finally get married or just live with that person, it's not really that special. Well,

I mean citation needed. Yeah, what do you mean by pair bonding? Can you explain by that term? Their bonding is your ability to open up to someone emotionally and truly give your So the more relationships you have, some more breakups you have when it gets the messy, and that's why it hurts your relationship not just the sexual I mean you mean you mean all aspects of relationships. So do you think like polyamorous people, for example, are less

capable of being emotionally fulfilled in their relationships than like monogamous people. I would say, so, why, Okay, if you have a car and you're showing with a bunch of people, you're putting more miles on it and not a car. Yeah, people are cars, right, I mean that's you're right, I'm putting more miles on it. But you do know a vagina doesn't work like a car, right, Like it doesn't get worn out.

Do you think do you think parents have less emotional bonds with their children if they have more children, Like, I mean, there's lots of relations more children. But I'm sorry, sorry interrupting. Well, I'm just saying, like, like you can have you can be emotionally open to more than one person, Like I just don't think that it has to be one person. And that also implies that, like, okay, you get married once.

Let's say you're a virgin and you get married and then you divorce and then you get married to somebody else, that somehow you're less of a person than you were before. And you're less able to like be emotionally available to people. And I just don't think that's true. I just don't see how you

could demonstrate that. And it doesn't make sense with an example even within Christianity of God's love, like theoretically God would love us all the same, and it's not Love isn't finite, it's not this this really, But also it doesn't have a lot to do with physical activity, how much you can love somebody emotionally. I hear you asserting that, I do not see any evidence that that is the case. Yeah, anything they're bud okay, yeah,

just from personal science. I should have to study out. I guess I should have to study out ready. I've seen studies quoted by the Fressian Fit group. But oh, Fresh and Fit Man, Freshian Fit is not a scientific body which you should be citing sources, my friend. Sorry, no, I know, but the fact that that's where information is coming from makes

me deeply skeptical of where the study itself came from. Also, I've I've listened to enough Fresh and Fit to note that they just make shit up and then they're like, yeah, it's science, you know, like a lot of the Andrew tape tape types do, so I would be deeply skeptic goal of that. They are the ones who use things like car analogies, who I would definitely be a low value woman in their in their estimation. It just just fine. I'm not really trying to appeal to the fresh and fit

population. But I was a bit of a hoebag and I have a great marriage and it's it's awesome. It's so much better than what I would have had when I was still very religious. So yeah, I would say maybe maybe not fresh and fit for your information. Avoid people who are widely proclaimed to be a part of the manisphere to understand sexual purity. Even from a religious perspective, I would not recommend that. Man. Yeah, yeah,

I have to religion. They are hypocrites because they say you can't keep around with a bunch of women, but then they want to ViRGE. Yeah, study that they quoted, not that they themselves. They're they're in morals. I understand what you're saying. I just I just feel like, yeah, maybe maybe broadening your horizons. They're a little bit There's I wouldn't I wouldn't trust much of what they say. I wouldn't fill my brain with the with that, with that podcast. I'm sorry that threw me for a loot a

little bit pressed, unfit. I'm like, whoa, yeah, yeah, and look like also, this is just anecdote, right, but like I know tons of people in this community who had marriages, particularly in religious communities, right, and have since gone away from those marriages and are in new relationships, and they are the most fulfilled, in the most happiest that they've ever been. Right. If that wasn't the case, they would go back

to their religious communities and uphold those values. But quite frankly, most of the time it's the other way around. It's you find freedom and liberation, and yeah, the sexual revolution is a part of instilling those values because it turns out it's a good thing. Turns out marriage doesn't have to be you know, a term sentence, right, it's not a prison sentence that you have to fulfills. It's a fulfilling relationship that you can have it if.

Yeah, for some of us, it's just the legal status because it's not built on the fact that you know, there's a marriage certificate between two peoples that you love that person and you know, regardless of their background, and in fact, I think it's someone's sexual background and relationships with other people that help them figure out how to work with people and how to figure out what

they want in a relationship. How do you know what you really want if you've only been with one person, right, It's like there could be other options out there. Not saying that people who have you know, married their high school sweetheart or ever, are having you know, unfulfilled relationships. I don't think that's true at all. It's just like this idea that somehow you're less valuable because you've had particularly sexual relationships with other people. I just don't

see that. I think that's a jealousy thing. I didn't say that person is that's valuable. I didn't say the woman is not inherently valuable because of that. Yeah, but when you make a make a comparison to like a car or any of the or that that you're putting an object in the place of a person which inherently devalues the person. So I kind of thing about that. Let's just say the fresh folks they tend to use that terminology.

Yeah. Yeah. I also I feel like you're a really nice person, and I feel like you're really wondering about this, And so I think if you just even look up, you know, feminism I think is anathemat and fit people. But if you just look up, like, you know, yeah, feminist stances on the sexual periody, you're going to come up with a lot of interesting articles that might change your perspective. If you really value only being with one person forever, then I wouldn't say, go push yourself

to just like sleep with everybody. And if that's a value you have that you want to be very limited in your number of partners, that's a value you have. Great, you know, But I think that you having that choice is fine. Me having that choice should be fine too, And I don't think it makes me. I don't think it makes someone less capable of pair bonding. I just I don't see the evidence for that, and it doesn't make sense to me why that would be the case. So anyway,

final thoughts Felix before let you go. Yeah, not that it the values of person, but it just carries on baggage. People have a lot of trauma from POWs relationships, and they bring that baggage into their marriages or into their bong term relationship. I fully agree with you. There, the more relationships you have, the more baggage you tend to bring to the relationship.

That's what I meant person will be met by the carnology. Yeah, I think that that life gives you baggage no matter what, whether it's a relationship you've been in, whether it's religious trauma or the fact that you know serious black guys and Harry Potter five and I got really sad about it. That's, you know, baggage you have carrying forward. I don't think there's anything

special about sexual baggage though, but I would love to. I would love it if you win and read some of this, and I'd love to in near your perspective with a little bit more research. You sound like a really like a really thinking about this and I appreciate that. Yeah, I would just send it to by saying I think you're absolutely right. Can relationships like psychologically mess you up and affect your next relationship? One percent? Absolutely,

no questions there. But I think that can also be valuable. I mean, sometimes bad experiences are better for you in the long run. I had some several bad experiences and relationships, but at the end day, I'm kind of glad I had them, because I wouldn't be the person I am today

without growing from that. And that's something to consider as well. You know, somebody who may have some bad experiences doesn't mean that there wasn't something valuable that came from not saying that, Oh yeah, they definitely should have had those experiences. But that's life, right. Stuff happens that we don't plan for, and I don't know, we just become better people. We hope to, at least not everybody does. But I don't know. We get worse, but you know, at least we want to try it too.

But anyway, Felix, I appreciate you calling in. That's all the time that we got for this particular call. But I don't know that that was a different conversation than I expected to have. It was I realized I just love talking about I don't know, I love talking about sex. It's kind of weird. Maybe it would just be like, tell me all about your religious drama and now it affects your sexual activity. But anyway, so not alling about that, Yeah, well you know, there you go, strong

start for Sophia here then coming back into the host role. I hope you continue to be able to talk about sex with people, which is not a thing I say every day, but that is a sentence I genuinely do. I hope you have some fun times here with the Callin Show and with that. Actually, if you like this Collin show and you want to support it, we're actually doing something special to support the ACA, which includes all of our other shows. We're going to show you a video about that right now.

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call us Daddy, call us up. You know. Superchants are a great way to support the show. Though. Another thing to support the show is with our merchandise. We do have a limited T shirt coming up on the screen here in just a second. It's limited because after this month it's going to go away. It says Jesus can't answer prayers because the WiFi in heaven sucks, which is like, uh, you know, it's it's it's a shirt, so check that out and all the other Talk Heath and merchandise.

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here, so check that out. And before we keep going, two other things here, the AC wants to know, well, it's you to know, excuse me, what's going on in the community. And for that, we do have an updated website. You can go to it. It's at Atheist hyphen Community dot org. You can learn about the organization, it's staff and its policies, and how you can get involved as a volunteer. And lastly, here's the last thing here. We do want to hear from you.

We want to know what you think of the show, what you thought was effective, what needed more work, whether I sucked, whether it's Sofia sucked, or whether we both sucked. You know, you can let us know suck so bad? Yeah yeah, or if we're awesome that works to you. I prefer that. But you know, it's free country. You say what you want. So it's a tv at atheist type and community dot org if you want to email us and let us know what you think.

So we do appreciate that, Sophia. We do have another caller in the queue here. You want to intro this one too. So this is Gary him from New York and Gary says, mentally ill people are taken advantage of by religious food charities. I have schizo effective disorder. Yeah, so we're bringing hello Gary. Hi. Yeah, I was just calling because I'm fifty seven years old and I've had schizo effective disorder since i was about eighteen,

and I'm doing okay now financially. But there have been times in the past where I've had to go to religious charities for food, but they always put a stipulation or almost always that you sit through their particular version of a religious service in order to get the food that they're giving out. The food is free, yeah, but you have to sit through some sort of service. I've had to endure like three hours of speaking in tongues which I certainly did

believe in even when I was a Christian. Yeah, I'm an easiest now. But there seems to be a stipulation that if you're poor, homeless, and mentally ill you have, if you're going to get food from a religious organization, they're gonna push their beliefs on you, whether you agree with him or not. And to some extent, you actually start to pretend that you believe what they believe just to get the damn food. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I'm so glad you're talking about this, Garrett, because I

have. I've done that. I've done like homeless volunteer efforts through churches in the past, and it does seem like it's like dangling a carrot situation where it's like, oh, here, we'll get you your needs for life if you just sit here and listen to this sermon for the next half hour or whatever, right, And it does feel it feels gross. It does feel gross. I think, if you're going to help people, why don't you

just help people? Why do you have to have this extra thing here in the middle of it, especially for folks who are in vulnerable situations, when they're suffering from food insecurity, Like, that's the last kind of people I want to waste people's time with, right, So, And may I ask you, Gry, did it make you more likely to be religious? I think overall I've become less religious and the easiest because of the way religious people take advantage of those who are home most and mentally ill. Yeah, I

mean, if you're I mean I'm not. I want to make it perfectly clear. I'm in treatment and I take my medication. Yeah, But if you're not taking your medication for whatever disorder you have, especially if it's a psychotic disorder, you're gonna go along with anything just to get some food.

Yeah. And people who are not medicated or not in treatment or don't have that available, or even if they just didn't like how they felt and so they went off of it, they deserve food and life necessities just as much as anybody else. And yeah, really sorry that happened to you. Yeah, I'm sorry that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think I became an easiest more because I was listening to people like Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris certainly of atheist Aaron Rock. I'm a big fan of Iaran Rock.

He's very intelligent. He presents his arguments very good. I didn't reach the stage of being an atheist overnight. It was like over a ten year process. I was raised Catholic, and I gave that up a long time ago. When I was sixteen, I did my confirmation. My father never brought it up again, and I never went back to a Catholic mass of my life. Yeah, he was just like, all right done. Yeah.

My father didn't drive into us like this hardcore religious police. Yeah, he just sort of went to the motion because he was raising ten kids and my

mother had died and he just wanted to do what she warmed. So, yeah, you know, Gary, I never sorry, Demiro, but I was just thinking, you know, I used to be a part of a church, or I was for a little while that I found out that they did a service where they actually told people to get off whatever medication they were using because they thought that the Holy Spirit was going to heal whatever ailments people were suffering from. And that really ticked me off. I mean, I

was not a full fledged atheist at that point. I was still deconstructing but I remember being virulently mad about that situation, right, Yeah, I mean I got the same situation when I was in alcoholics Anonymous, I don't think I haven't drink in ten years, but actually it's sort of the same thing. I mean, so I don't know. Yeah, yeah, but I'm doing fine now. It's fun to point that out. No congratulations on being

sober for ten years and on you know, doing so well. But I think you make such a great point that it would be really different if I were to just sort of pontificate about that. But because this is your lived experience, you can say, like, this is what I saw, and this is what I experienced, and and no, it didn't actually make me more Christian. It sort of his demeaning. It sort of takes this it is demeaning. Yeah, it makes you a check book in there? Religious?

Why do you be treated differently from the rest of this church congregence? Right, like, if you're truly in the eyes of God, just as sinful, just as you know, wretched, worthless whatever Christians use to describe normal functioning people, like like, why do you get to be the exception

to this? Did you do something particularly wrong? I think that's the implication here, right, that you're suffering from food insecurity, or you're suffering from this mental illness, or you're suffering from blah blah blah, because either you've messed up at some point in your life or you're being challenged by demonic forces. I mean, it's just it is demeaning in some way. It is.

It is something that I don't think you should anybody should be treating anybody with, right, Yeah, so I'm sorry you had to go through that, Go ahead, Yeah, yeah. I live in upstate in New York and there's an organization called Food Link. They're non religious, and they handle a lot of donated foods. But once they distribute it to the mothe or churches or the synagogue or any other religious institution, it's up to those institutions how they give up the food. Yeah, so it's really left up to

the individual or organization. Something that I'm sorry. It's something to remember if anybody's, you know, donating to food banks or working in nonprofits, to think about the fact that you might be giving about simulations, but it doesn't

mean that everyone else is too. So if you're already right, yeah, that's something you really remember, Yeah, at least with nonprofits, there's usually some sort of record keeping for how somebods funds are done and stuff, right, Like, that's not obviously the case with church is right, you really

don't have to report exactly what happens with any donations and things. And this is and this is a pushback I get sometimes, and I'm sure you have two where it's like, well, aren't these people doing good work for people? At the end of the day, It's like yes and no, Right, I mean, maybe I'm not going to doubt that somebody's been helped by church for their situation. Yeah, obviously that's That's not what I'm saying. But like, are there ways in which we can make this process were transparent?

Yeah? Right, because I don't want to support a church that's going to preach to people. I'm sorry, even if they're helping people like I just I just don't think that's a good thing to do. I think there's

other ways we can do that, right. I think we also see when it becomes a key unity effort kind of across the United States, you see that a lot of times religious organizations will opt out of actually participating in in collective work with other organizations because they want to be able to preach, so they're becoming less effective even if they're so arguably doing good things. Yeah. Also, I feel like it's worth asking is this the best way to do

it? Though? Right, Like, you might do a good thing, but if there's a way to be ten times more effective, yeah, then why aren't we doing that? Yeah? Right, I would have to say, this is a different topic. I am lucky enough to be in a treatment center that's secular. They're not pushing religion. I mean that never comes up. It's a publicly funded hospital that I go to for my outpatient treatment, and it's been I'm lucky in that regard. I've heard of the I

believe it's the secular therapy projects. Yes, that's a good project, and I'm already involved in something that's secular and that's a up more helpful than something that's religious. But that's all I really had to say, right, Well, thank you so much, Yeah, Gary, thanks so much for sharing that experience, because I that's super important that you share that, and I'm

honestly super happy about that. I especially like I like the fact that you did tie in, Like, yeah, I struggle with this mental illness and I struggle with food insecurity and I didn't get help from either because it's like, how how common is that? But like we don't say it in so plain words that Gary did right, and I don't know. I'm like, are there secular options which we can help people with? Yes? And I

hope that there's more that we can do. You don't have to if you feel like there's a vulnerable population that you want to help, you don't have to feel like, oh, all the options are just like Christian ones. Like there's definitely places out there, and that's something maybe to remember as atheists.

Two is that there isn't always a lot of organization. You know, behind atheism it's pretty independent, but there are secular organizations out there, and you know, if we want to do good, we have to get involved in can't always just be like, well, Christians aren't doing things the right way, but it's like asking to criticize them. And I hate to say

activism doesn't end at call in shows. Never. I think we had more than like this thing, you know what I mean, Like this might not be the last thing we need to do, but anyway, the last thing I'm gonna do today though maybe so I got another show. I'm doing the next show after this, so I've at least got one more. But you know, we'll see. But Gary, appreciate your call and thank you so

much for that. We do have some more callers in the queue, but just reminder, we just still do have open lines, so if you want to get in, it's not too late. We can definitely take some more calls, So numbers on the screen if you are interested. But I'll intro this next one here we have it looks like we might have an audience question. Oh, you're right, we do have an audience question. We have this like new sign at the top here and it's really cool and we don't

have a camera to show you, but it is. It is at the top there, and it does say that we should do an audience questions. So let's actually turn the cameras around and let's get it. There we go audience question. Hello, how are you doing? Hi? My name is John from the Dallas Fort Worth the area. My first time here. Love. My question was more for a feel in this whole concept of sexual purity. I understand Felix is using the Bible is some kind of a sexual a

moral guide post for his sexual purity. But I was this curious how he would reconcile characters like in the Old Testament King David, who had a wife and multiple concubines. Yeah, how would he wrap his mind around that? Well, Felix isn't online, so I don't think he could answer that, And I want to let's not strow me in Felix's position, because I didn't hear Felix say he used the Bible for his position, so I don't know if that's true. If he uses the Bible very well might but I don't

want to like speak for him. I will say this, Obviously, people do use biblical sort of reference points for what's supposed to be spiritually or sexually pure, and as you pointed out, they're often like terrible and not great and don't lead to the super awesome outcomes. I feel like I think about what would I have said when I was still like a Christian and struggly believing.

I probably would have made an argument about the Old Covenant versus the New Covenant and how it was allowed at one going to have multiple wives, and that you know it was treated differently. Of course, that brings a bunch of different questions about yeah, God change that seems kind of weird, and people are like, oh, yeah, they had multiple wives, but they were sending. But it's like, but God never rebuked every yeah, anybody

for having multiple wives. That is just not a thing that seemed okay at the time. But yeah, I don't know, so I know, I know that's what I would have said, but I can't speak for if anything, the Bible supports polygamous marriages. I mean, you could honestly make a better case for that than monogamous one, at least if you're just doing Old

Testament. New Testament gets kind of weird. And I have heard some people argue that some women in particular argue that polygamist marriages makes sense only because women do so much housework. They if you split it up a bunch of amongst a bunch of people, then that's great, and so it can be a well that's one perspective. So I don't think that's what the Bible is advocating for. But you know, yeah, yeah, that's that's very interesting. Let's go ahead. We do have other callers, so I want to want

to get to that. I you know, I'm so used to not being in studio and forget Yeah, we got audience questions here too, So audience members, just to remind, of course you if you want to ask questions, be sure to ask the moderator and we'll get you next as well. But I'll introduce this next one. Here we have Liam, who's calling in from Louisiana, who's asking us, did we hear that the rapture should have happened yesterday? Did you hear about this? I didn't hear about this.

That's the light in the mood. Just like I wanted to congratulate both of you and all the listeners at home for surviving yet another raptors. Yeah, what happened to him? And evidently it Like I don't have access to all the police reports, but I'm not aware of like hundreds of thousands of missing persons. Yeah, plains out of the sky. We could just be really screwed and it did happen, and none of us are going to heaven or

whatever. I don't know. I don't know. There's like fifteen Amish people and like, yeah, the only ones who and we don't know because they don't post on the internet. That's true, they don't have like a you know how like Facebook has like the oh I'm safe from this event thing. They don't have I'm safe from the raptorre thing because they don't have Facebook.

We're gonna learn about on NPR or ten years from now. That there was like some weird Yeah, I know this has happened before, but real quick, this occurred to me, and I wanted to pitch this, Like there is a I'm a long time skip to I know my Bible, I was raised in the deep cell, and there's a verse, a very specific verse that says, no man know it the day or the hour the son of man will return. Yes, very familiar with that very very specific equation there.

And even if you take it literally and just reduce it to men's, like that's four billion men's on the planet. And so I think we could just gain the system and do an online sign up sheet to pretend you know the day and the hour to take your heart of hearts, be firmly convinced that the son of man will return in the specific day and the hour. Know how much time that gives us with four billion people comes out to four hundred and fifty six thousand years. Yeah, we could delay, oh to

lay it back a little bit. That is a good play. I don't think they anticipated the internet when they wrote that passage, so we might have just found a loophole. Do you love rapture predictions? Though? They just made me feel a little bit more alive. I'm like, yeah, you know, just maybe the world will in tomorrow. I'm just gonna lips up today. We're alive, okay. I mean is that Am I the only one? I don't know. I don't know if I've ever heard of rapture

prediction. I'm like, God, I feel more alive. Yeah, like living on the edge. I mean, I guess it can get tragic though, like the in that historian has that thing about what's encamping that made all those billboards right, and he personally bankrupted himself and had people just like max out their credit cards and quit their jobs and it was a bad diesel. I mean, it's yeah, it's it's really not funny, but I think

it's just a skeptical outwage thing. It isn't funny. It does like well, I mean, it is funny, but it isn't funny right because it's like it does affect real human lives in the fact that there's like a cult leader taking advantage of people and perhaps deluded himself. That part is not funny or absolutely. The funny part is, of course, how often we have rapture predictions right where it's like, yeah, it seems to keep coming up, but then some people are just very convinced of you know, this next

one being the one. I have to wonder if that verse that says we don't know the day or the hour that this is going to happen, I wonder how many more Christians would fall into that, because I think that's a very big stop gap. I know it was for me. Well, I remember my past to talk about, Oh, don't ever worry about you know, camping and all these people, because you know, there's there's we don't

know the day of the hour or when the Mayan stuff was happening. Remember twenty twelve, now, I remember having the peace of mind knowing, well, we don't know the day or the hours. I taught sixth grade at the time, and some of the sixth graders were really really worried about low key. I think I was worried too, but I don't remember how old

that was probably old enough to know better. But the point is, uh, yeah, it's I think it takes advantage of people's fear right and just kind of hijacks it in a way that makes them not think clearly about it. And if you do think clearly about it, you realize, hey, they're really I mean John of of you know, I can't remember his name, John of Pat Moose, guy who wrote it. We didn't even know

who he is. He just he just literally just wrote a book. And now we're just going to be afraid of this for some reason because a bunch of other people think there's that's that's like, that's all revelation, the Book of Revelation. Really it makes that fear of hell very proximate, as I think a lot of folks. I know, I struggled with fear of how when I was leaving the faith, and still I think in the back of my head there's this, you know, it's it's hard to it's hard to

shake. So if you're being told it might be this week, better go right with God, you know that it pushes that fear of hell right there in your fright, because it's not just you can't just be a good person. Christianity doesn't teach that. It's no, you have to have the specific relationship with God. You have to be saved, you have to be to an X, Y and Z, depending on the denomination. Right. But it's like it's never just oh, are you generally a good guy? Yeah,

you're probably fine. It's no, you're not attending church, you're not tithing, you're not whatever. You have one week to figure out which denomination and which religion got it right? Yes, And if it's one guy named Dave from Vancouver in nineteen seventy three, then I guess you got to find him in that time. Yeah, yeah, go to Dave. I did get more serious, Like I'm the evangelical branch. I grew up leaving Carol

of Security to where once they've always saved. They literally believed that you could be, you know, redeemed by your Lord and savor Jesus Christ, invest in and you're like you could have like shop lifted something or said a bad word and then been hit by a truck and you would die and go to Hell forever. And yeah, cratching up of like that that cycle a lot of abuse. I mean, that's a real thing. Definitely right, definitely.

And and there is this theology too where it's like there are some Christians who think that they're saved but they're not. Right. Yeah, it's like that's especially messed up because it's like, well, Jesus could do something about that, right, like where where's the intervention happening there? But no, they're just gonna live their lives thinking they're saved and they're not. That's that's

probably the most messed up of all. If. I remember knowing a Baptist who was so proud that he had converted a Nazarine to go to the Baptist Church, and we brought this up a lot, like this was some really big God points for him, and I remember just being like, I don't where the Nazarine's not saved enough, like they see Yeah, yeah, I don't know, but yeah, if after happens, we're probably not making the cut. Sofia I think, I mean, would we want to good point?

Probably not. Do you know about the pet service that's run by atheists, Yes, yeah, to take in pets so they'll like watch over your pet. Ye love that I've heard of this. Yeah, I've mixed feelings about it because well, I mean it is. I mean, I don't know. I guess it's Is it a legitimate business? I mean, if you know that nothing's going to come out of it, I don't know.

It's kind of it's a little sketchy to make. There have many instances where people who believe they're raptures coming up put their animals to sleep instead, and so I would argue that this is a harm reduction alternative. Okay, all right, that's the point I hadn't considered. For one point, to Sophia, that's good fever of atheist animal risks. Yes, in any way, to like that alone, I'm gonna go to pit it away from the like dead pets put thing. Oh sorry, But like I definitely think that there's

an outreach the thing. We could there's a period of website opportunity for somebody more savvy on the time of like sign up for your favorite rapture date October thirtieth of twenty twenty four, and it's like there. I think there's enough of us out there we could we could at least delay it by one hundred

years or so. I think we could do that, right, Yeah, if it requires sincere belief, then I don't know, maybe not, but like, yeah, I mean if it's just like, oh you just have to like kind of think about this in your brain for two seconds and that delays it and you just had to put it on a sign up sheet and yeah, sure, I mean, be the change you want to see in the world, Liam, Malcolm, you're starting this. Yeah, yeah, well, thank you so much for calling in, Liam, Yeah, thank

you for calling it. We do appreciate. We'll go ahead and let you go. But yeah, that was a nice change of pace until we started talking about the pets thing. And then I know, I'm sorry, but Harry'm laughing on the one hand, being like it makes me feel alive, but then also like dead pets. So sorry, I take you for a roller coaster there. Yeah, but maybe we can light in the mood with this super chat. We have one from Ben nine. You want to read

this one? Sure? Ben nine sent nine, So that's pretty cool. Yeah. Money is a major factor in how some partnerships are modeled. Not the best reason for saying in a sometime failed relationship, but money is a factor. Money is a factor. It's very true. And I think that you know, thinking about what resources folks have access to is definitely a good way to have compassion for someone in a relationship that you don't understand why they're

still in You know, that's true. You're totally right. Yeah, it's probably better to be honest about those kinds of you know, arrangements too, instead of just being like, oh, like this is just yeah, I don't know. I'd rather people be honest about them pretend like it's not a factor either. So yeah, but anyway, we have some more callers comment in, Sophia, I think you should also intro his next one here. So what do we got? So this is Steve. He him from Florida.

Steve is saying creeping religious fascism and atheists fighting to prevent a theocracy. So I'm curious what this will be about. Yes, all right, is that Steve, Steve, You're live on talking than what's going on? Well, first of all, I must tell you that your show and all of the ACA and a TA adjacent shows are among the most intelligent, well run, interesting, sometimes comically fascinating and helpful of any talk show content available.

And I am in the media, So this is an objective and objective evaluation and you can be very proud for what for what you have achieved. Thank you, Steve from Florida. We have an objective evaluation, Steve from Florida. So that's yeah, that's I'm going to put that on my resume from Florida. Yeah, Steve, you want to you think I'm doing a bad job, call up Steve from Florida. Okay, he knows, he knows

what I'm about, all right. I also feel like that's that's such a nice compliment to like all of the different people who work on the shows and all of the different hosts. So that's really what we think when we thank the crew at the end of the show. We do meet it. There's a lot of people that help put this stuff together. So thank you so much for that compliment. But tell us more about this, uh, this

topic that you want to talk about. Well, one thing about how great your crew and team is is that your call screener was exceptionally professional and advised me prudently not to be explicit in my concerns about religious fascism and cross the line into political partisanship, which could endanger your nonprofit. That's right, We are very prudent call screeners. We have this all right, Yes, but just but here, living here in Florida, you can see the collusion between

you know, some people with political power and the religious industry. And really that's the first foundation of it. Religion in the United States is a industry that has tax exempt nonprofit status but is slutely a retail industry selling versions of salvation and personal guidance with huge profits and no oversight whatsoever. Number two, these businesses, which I remember that saying that religion is the opiate of the

masses, these sentinel these spiritual sentinel dealers. Not only do they not have to pay taxes or have any scrutiny on all the money they rake in from the faithful and the deluded, they also are allowed to be political from the pulpit, even though it's a violation of various laws which are never enforced, including IRS provisions we shouldn't should apply to them. Yeah, right, right, You guys are are cautiously worried about me saying something that could get you

in trouble. But from the pulpits of megachurches with thirty thousand people in attendance, people are being told things such as women should really be property of men, and the state Handmaid's Tale hate anyone who is not like you, especially if they don't fall in love and make love the way you do. If people are not religious, they should be shut down, they should be exercised

by Supreme Court rulings. And it's being installed in law, especially in so called public education, which here in Florida, tens of millions of taxpayer dollars are being handed with no strings attached and no oversight to so called religious private charter schools that are all about indoctrination. And that's called taxpayer funded education. It is scary. I feel like I would have a lot of and I'm sensing this for me too, you know, being here in Texas, like

sometimes get very angry because it feels like this overwhelming force. You're right, religion give me this industry, and so it feels so frustrating sometimes and so overwhelming to feel like you're advocating for a free free thought or independence. And then you see like I don't prager you is now allowed in Florida public schools as an instructional material. When you see something like that, it feels like we're going backwards as a culture. Yes, rough, Texas and Florida.

I got to say to you go ahead, Steve, you no can I just say, as a woman in Texas, I got to say to you that Gillyad from the Handmaids Tale. I mean, what they've what the Texas power elite have said to you as a female, is that the state owns you, and also your neighbors who oppose your reproductive rights on you too, and your and a man owns you. Is he met? I mean, look, but that isn't I mean the same thing has happened here in Florida.

Yeah, it's atrocious. Not just The main reason I called today is

I just heard we have a congressional representative named Anna Paulina Luna. Now that she is a very clever lady, and she and some of her allies are pushing this idea that the Constitution doesn't say there is freedom of religion, nor does it but it says that you don't have any freedom from religion, and that the Constitution authorizes state enforced religion, and that the First Amendment doesn't say what we atheists and other rational even religious people think it says, which is

that the government cannot give favor to religion and allow religion to be a state sponsored institution. That forces its way into people's lives. But the folks that are against they say that they will force religion into our lives. They are going to force it into our lives, and that it'll go to the Supreme Court. And we all know who runs that organization right now. It is

Look the main thing I'll say and then I'll get off of here. First of all, this show should have tens of thousands of live viewers right now and huge amounts of money. Number two, Atheists or not just fighting against stupid ideas and delusions that come from the Bronze Age or from weird stuff like OURFK Junior, et cetera. Atheists are fighting to keep America a democracy, a secular democracy, and a place where each of us gets to decide how

we will conduct our lives. If we don't defeat those who seek to install religion as a theocracy, we will end up in a very bad situation, and it could happen quickly. Yes, yeah, I think you're you know, I look at religion in government like cheating in relationships. If yeah, they're willing to do it for you, they'll do it to you. So I look at if you install a theocracy, if you put religion more and

more into government. I think a lot of religious folks don't realize that the more that is broad to the four, the more that more power religion has, they will also end up on the getting the short end of the stick. They will also end up being told what they can and can't say, what they can and can't wear, or can and can't do. And it's it's interesting to me that it creeps in this idea that well, well I kind of agree. I mean, you know, it would be nice if

more moms could be in the home to raise their kids. That's good, I agree with that. I like that. And then it becomes a loss of rights. And you know, this material is being used in public schools that are overtly religious. It does creep up pretty hard. And so yeah, I agree with you. If I can enter something you just brought up there is that they are now the the anti abortion, anti reproductive freedom marketers

have very cleverty shifted their marketing pitch to exactly what you just said. There are there are now politicians and government officials pushing the subsidization of motherhood, the giving special tax benefits beyond what are already given, if not outright bonuses and payments to encourage people to bear children and in a way to penalize those who's Jews not to Indeed, our tax code already does give advantage to those who

make children. It is a very strange situation, and I urge everyone who's listening to share this show, share the entire ACA experience, because if we don't have more rational, secular or at least rational spiritual people, some of the good religious people, like the Muslim guy that's been having a conversation with Matt on his shows, not during those crazy debates where the Muslim guy basically

almost threatens to kill Matt. But we need everybody to get together because if you look at books like The Rise and Fall of the Third Rights, Hitler was just Hitler and his boys were just a little bitty band of violent, weird bullies until they took over the country. Well, I'm gonna end by

emphasizing your lovely plug for more people watching this show. I absolutely agree with that and appreciate you calling in. I think, yeah, yeah, it's something I do want to put out there, though I think it can get really overwhelming and really frustrating. Like I kind of mentioned earlier, but remembering that there have always been people like us, people who think differently, people who want to agitate, who don't accept that the world needs to be theocratic

even when it was far more so. Maybe we look to the helpers of secular democracy. We look to people who are advocating for that at least a little bit, just so that we don't feel overwhelmed by Yeah, you know, there's a reason why. In our mission statement at the beginning of the show that we read every single time, one of the things we say is we advocate for the separation of religion and state. Right, this is a

big deal. How what he's talking about here at this reinterpretation the First Amendment, Thomas Jefferson came up with the wall of separation, right, this idea

of this sort of separation. So there's been this reinterpretation, this revisionist history by Christian nationalists who are talking about this and saying, well, look, this is just coming from a letter, This isn't actually written in the Constitution, And you know, they add these different ideas and it's like there is sort of this effort to sort of retroactively change history and change its intentions.

But even more so, to change the liberties that we currently exist with today, and that includes this idea that yeah, Christian nationalism is not just like this buzzword anymore, like it is becoming a real thing. So that's why I mean, that's part of the reason why I'm here. I do take

this seriously. Like, you know, whether you choose to donate or not, just be aware like most of us who are doing this stuff, we're volunteers, Sophia and I. We don't get paid to do this, right like as a nonprofit, you can see where the money is being used for. It's one of the reasons why I like volunteering. So yeah, if you support the ACA and our advocacy for separation and church and state, we do appreciate it, and we are trying to fight the good fight. On

that note. Actually, we have a couple of supporters that we need to read right now. I'll talk the first one here. It's from Kelly Laughlin who's donating five dollars. Love Kelly, who says, great job, Sophia, so glad we got to meet and always lots of love for you. Dan, Scott Dicky said hi to thank you Scott Dicky, Thank you Kelly as well. Thank you very cool. You want to read this next one? Yeah, it's from Miranda Rensburger. She sent us five dollars. Thank

you very much, Miranda. I'm really enjoying what Sophia has to say. Great job, well, thank you Miranda. Yeah, I appreciate that a lot. Yeah, we got apedivists also, who's a pisstivist excuse me? Who gives five dollars a no message? Thank you so much for that. And last week we have Roger Wenzel who gives nine ninety nine, who says, take this ten bucks and fight the Christo fascist. I love it. Yeah, I remember a lot about that. But Christine fashist as new my

new favorite term. That and the religious industry. I feel like I'm taking those away from today. Yeah, what did you say earlier? You said, like if what about people to cheat? If they Oh yeah, I want to like snap. I want to do like a z snap for that that religion and government is like it is like cheating in a relationship. If they'll do it for you, they'll do it to you. So yeah,

that's I like that. Thank you Before we get to next caller. Actually, I think we should thank some more people who actually help out with the show. We do have our top five patrons, So if you do donate on the Patron, thank you guys so much. Of course, I think everybody who donates on the Talk Heath and Patron in particular, But on this show we give shout outs to the top five patrons every week in a special honorable mention. So Sophia, I'm gonna let you take it today and start

right start the reading there. We'll see if I can say all of these correctly. But I also just love them. So Number one we have Dingleberry Jackson, which is wonderful. Number two oops all singularity, Yes, amazing. Number three Devoor Valjean ye Valian. I'm not sure how we say that, Jay or Davar Devoor Do you know it's you know, I don't think he's ever actually he's never contacted me, instid. I was saying his name wrong, Okay, So I'm assuming we thank David either way, whether we're

pronouncing his name or their name wrong or not. You know, I hope you know that I appreciate you so much, no matter how your name is said. Number four Helvetti, Yes you got Number five is left in the leaves and there's an honorable mention with for jose Huerica. I am terrible. That's how I would say right now. So thank you, Thank you guys so much for donating on that. We do appreciate it. And I'm going

to I'm going to take up the next call. Here we have David who's calling in from Indiana, and David wants to ask us info on how to raise their child with and explain why you don't have relative relationships with a lot of relatives with different views. David, you're live on Talk Heathen. What's up, Hey, guys, how are you doing? Good? Good? I'm going to tell you this right now. I can give you. I can tell you my perspective on things until I'm blue in the face. But

I don't have any kids, and so I can't. I can't get you that direct experience that you want. I have worked with kids, I've worked with you know, all kinds of people. So I'll tell you how it is, but but tell us about your situation, David, what's going on? So my son is, he's three years old, getting ready to be four here soon, and I've started really thinking about because there are some people

in my life fame moment. I've had to cut out for very various reasons, some ranging from extream you know, I guess you could say minor things, but enough to work. It makes me so uncomfortable about what they're saying. And you know, obviously I don't want to tell my son, hey, you can't talk to these people because I don't. I don't, I don't agree with them. I don't want to do that. But you know, I have started realizing that, you know, there's going to come a

time to where he's gonna ask why or is it this person here? Or why is it that person here? And obviously I'm going to have to explain him the situation. So how how what would be the best way to explain to him about what's going on? So I think my first thought there might not be a There's not a perfect way. The idea of best is going to depend a little bit on you and a little bit on who your child is and what their personality is. Like I think a good rule of thumb

is to talk to children about what your values are. So, you know, we're a family who loves and respects people, and there are some other people we know who they have a hard time doing that, and so we don't spend much time with them because I want to make sure that we're all around people who love and respect each other. I've heard some families have success with talking about you know, sometimes you need to be put in time out, or sometimes you need a break so that you can think about how you

want to act. Sometimes grown ups need that too. Sometimes there are grown ups who they're just not quite quite behaving in a way that we need to be around them right now. I think that at a very simple level that that usually is an okay play place to start. As they get a little older, I think that you can talk a little bit more too about about safety and about you know, a matter to be safe in our feelings,

matters to be safe in our bodies. And so there are some people that make me feel like they might not be the safest people to be around, and so we don't spend a lot of time with them. And maybe as we get older, we can think about if we want to want to give

them a chance and see how see how they act. But for now we're going to focus on on staying safe and you know, re emphasizing I think with sometimes kids can look at an adult's family and see they don't talk to a family member, and it can occur to them that, well, are they going to stop talking to me too? You know that sort of anxiety. So re emphasizing that, you know, I love you so much, I will never leave you. You know, we are our own great family.

And then let's think about all the other wonderful adults we have in our lives, all the other wonderful people. Sometimes it can be helpful to list them. Oh, we have you know Auntie Maria, we have you know Uncle Jacob, Like they're great, or we have you know, your your friend Ernie, his mom and dad, they're so fun. Huh, Like they're great and they're so they may you know how to maybe not telling them they make you feel safe, but asking like how do you feel when you're

with them? So they can start to develop this internal sense of how they should feel around people who love and respect them. So, I know, that's like a lot of information, and there is no perfect way. You know, I'm raising a boy. He's now only fifteen months, so I'm

not quite to that point yet. But there are some people that are going to be around him, that are going to be interesting, and I think we're gonna have to set some boundaries and say things like, you know, hey, that's not conversation we have right now around around him, and that's a boundary of mine. So I can take myself out of myself and my child out of this situation. I know I can't tell you what to do or say, but I'm going to make sure that that he's always safe.

So yeah, that's that's rough. Though. I applaud your putting your child's need first here and trying to figure out how to navigate that. No notes, David, what do you think? And I have had to do that with some people on some time, Remember I am. I am really hoping that I can improve kinds with some more, you know, help them to maybe understand my point a little better. And I have had to pull myself out of it because I realized if I don't do this, it's gonna make

me miserable and it's going to show. So I had to step back to help myself before I could and think about it before I could really take any action on it. Yeah. I think that's a great thing that you're considering

that, and you're considering your child's point of view as well. I don't know if parents always do that when they talk about these sensitive situations, because I personally, in my opinion, right a kid that young, they're not going to understand the matter of facts of the situation, but they may understand feelings before they understand facts. Right, They're going to see how you approach it and what your emotional response is that and probably process that first before they

even understand the literal facts of the matter. And I think being able to navigate that and be able to present that in a way that makes sense and I don't know, it's just going to help with their expectations of that relationship is probably the healthiest thing you could do, right, So sound like a lovely dad, Yeah, for sure, for sure, David, I think that's that's that's all the wisdom that comes from this fount, unless you have

any other questions or comments for us, No, that's that is actually helped me quite a bit. I appreciate that. I so glad. I definitely don't want to I definitely don't want to tell my son, like again, you can't talk to this person because yeah, I don't agree with them, or they're doing this, or they're doing that, and someday they're gonna have to make those choices for themselves too, so you can't functionally, I think about it. Even with my I don't know that I can tell my fifteen

month old what to do. To be honest, that's I try, but it's bad. But you know they're gonna it's more important for them to figure out how to make those decisions themselves, how they want to feel in they're with people and see you making values based decisions to protect them. That's way more important, Yeah, than telling them like you can't do this because I decided it's bad, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's I don't know. Like I said, I don't think we have anything more to add,

but you ended up adding more. So that was that was great, No, it was it was great. Thanks so much David for calling in on that, and we'll go ahead, let you go. But yeah, I honestly, the fact that you're calling in and asking us first of all, you don't need my opinion, Sophia's was great, but it's like you're putting thought into it. I think that you should give yourself credit for that.

Honestly, I think thinking about things from a child's perspective. Even sometimes the most well meaning parent can devalue what it is to be a kid and that their experiences are epic and huge and emotions matter. Yes, I'm not a parent take expert either, obviously, I just alluded to the fact that my fifteen, my bill doesn't you know. There's days when I'm like, Okay, well you're gonna eat goldfish crackers and a bunch of pouches of I don't

know you're fed. Oh yeah, that's great. I can't wait when he grows older and sees that clip. I was wondering, Ah, so that's why I messed up, Because it's in the powder. I will say that. Plenty of people here at the AC and make a lot of jokes about like eating him, like ah, you brought snacks and when I bring in this chubby baby. So Sophie, I know you're new here, but those

aren't jokes. At one point, I was wondering. At one point, I think I'm seriously there are there's gonna be a barbecue next month, and we were wondering if you know that was gonna be an option. Of course I'm quite succulent, but also he's still pretty small. I'm not going to ask you why you know who that he's suculent, but I mean it's amazing, all right, Okay, okay, alright, I think it's cute's next color? Oh my god? Okay, So moving on with this this this

show, we have another super chat. It's from Jason Friedman, who gives nine ninety nine and says, do y'all have hope for the future? Do y'all think these efforts will make lasting change? Do y'all ever feel fatalistic? And if so, how do you cope? Love you, Dan, Let me too, Jason, You're a good guy. Listen, I feel fatalistic every day? Are you kidding me? If I give if I've given you any any other pretense that I am, like not worried about the way things

are going. I'm sorry that is a complete facade because I think about this stuff literally all the time. But I've learned to compartmentalize it on Colin shows and not, you know, have it affect my work life? At least it's not as I try to. I don't know, Like, yeah, of course I'm worried. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't worried, right, Like I talk about these issues because I care about it, and sometimes it feels like nobody's listening to us. But the truth is, there are

people listening right and there are people that are making this change. And I know I'm trying to do my best for the skills I have in making it happen, and so I just have to leave it at that and hope that other people are going to do the same, and that's all I can do. Immediately, think of two sayings. I'm a bit of a quoter. The first one A lot of my family's new Foundlander so that East Coast of Canada Island people. There's just such a simple new Fee saying, but do

your best and don't worry. Like it's a dictate. It's very blunt, but I think at some level that's a bit of all you can do. But I would also say, so you might pick up from the fact that I was just talking about parenting a lot. I really love mister Rogers. I think as an adult who cares about children, he's a great model. He once said that the greatest thing you can do is teach others that they

are loved and capable of loving. And I feel like for me that's sort of it, like, not only can I care about you, it's within you. It's possible for you to care about others. Others feel valued in their lives. That gives me hope. It gives me hope if there's a person like mister Rogers who said such things, you know, and really believe them and made a huge impact on the lives of a lot of people. It gives me hope that nothing stops me from doing them every day, nothing

stops me from loving people and helping them love others too. So I saw a movie once called Field the Dreams that said, if you build it, they will, So that's that's my quote. Does have a quote book that contribution. I don't think it was as good as yours, but it works. We have another super chande. You want to get this? Yeah? How did you say this? Activist sent us ten dollars? It has an a is it ten Australian dollars? I'm not sure? Great show. These

two are so good together. Ye. Yeah, we're killing it. Yeah. Appreciation for the mod's shoes, Yes, they're amazing and definitely we appreciate them so much. Yes, we definitely definitely. Do we have another one? In the queue here you're you're in a role said, do you want to introduce this one? Okay, well, okay, so we've got Universal is the name? Universal is the name? Yeah, from California. It's going to be interesting. And they say they are deeper dimensions to the Bible.

I want to explain. Let's do it. Universal, you are about to be uh, it will be if we hit that choco button. There live, You're now alive on talk Heathen. What's going on? Universal? Yes, sir, this is such an interesting topic. And my theory is this is there just like the human body, it has deeper dimensions from the skin level to the cellular level. See. The Bible in that same aspect had is the same quality from the surface to the deeper of the dimensions of

the Bible. See. So when we talk about the surface, we're talking about the story and stories. These stories are interesting because they sold the animal in us. See, because we have an animal, but we also have another sign. Like I say, just like the skin is the surface, we have a cellular side too. What's the side in the spirit? Excuse me? Oh, I was gonna I was just gonna something you might be getting there. What's the cellular side of the Bible. In this analogy,

that would be your higher self. See, because we have an animal. So just like we have an animal, we have a conscious and this conscious is your higher self. So when you understand your higherself, you're high. Yourself now guides your animals, because if you don't have a guide towards that animal, then he remains wild and domesticated. Yeah. I think if your

higherself, it's supposed to be driving universal. I think if you take this sort of Carl Jungian approach to the Bible and like to other forms of literature, I think you can maybe even get great I would even pose it and say great forms of spiritual development for yourself. You may learn something about yourself that you didn't realize before, or something about humanity. And maybe maybe there's a truth there that is meaningful to you. And if that is the case,

that is great for the rest of us. It's really hard for us to look at the Bible that way for a couple of reasons, and the biggest one, at least for me, is the way that it's being interpreted by everybody else. Because just because you have this great and wonderful and fantastic and detailed theory of how the Bible just makes sense and it explains everything. The guy down the street that's advocating for Christian nationalism is well, real quick

universal the guy down the street. The guy down the street doesn't have that same interpretation, right, And so the problem I have with this is, Look, there's a seven billion people on Earth. There's gonna be eight billion different versions of the Bible depending on how you look at I just don't think it's a reliable way to communicate human truths, right. I don't think it's a reliable way to come to spiritual development. It may work for you,

and that's great. For the rest of us. It can be a tool for oppression as much as it can be a tool for salvation. So I'd rather not use it if I can. Does that make sense? See, when you see an interpretation, interpretation is the focal point. It's about what you interpret it. Now, if you rely on other people can interpret it for you. See that's what your animal do. Its leads me because it needs to be lived. I mean, doesn't the Bible advocate for that.

There's universal truths in the Bible that if you do and follow these universal truths these us universal truths take you into victoriousness in your genius because you're created to be genius. And this is kind of sounding like genius mysticism. Like this a lot of what you're saying. I mean, if that's what you think,

cool, but there's not even evidence for it in the Bible. The Bible doesn't talk in this way about an animal self and about us a of spiritual magic self and how your spirit is driving you like a bit of like a car analogy like we discussed earlier. Yeah, it doesn't talk about you needing to be a None of this is coming from the Bible. It kind of just sounds like it's what you feel, which is fine, But I don't really understand advocating for looking at the Bible for guidance and then saying a

bunch of stuff that doesn't appear anywhere in it. Yeah, I'm going to say this universal, but this is this is, this is what I mean by skin focus. The skin don't know what's going on in the outside. That's why you have to know thyself to know you more than just your animal. Now, the animal is not aware, it's not conscious, it's just react. I mean, you're quoting Shakespeare to make your argument about the Bible.

Conscious respond, I conscious respond, don't know if we're If we're on the same page here, I think we need to take a step back. But listen as far as interpretations go. Right, I'm assuming you don't speak New Testament Greek Greek coin right, Obviously you don't speak anciently here, Right, I don't either. I'm relying on translators who translate the Bible, who

give their interpretation to the particular words that are used. I'm also relying on Biblical commentaries to understand the time and place in which these books were written and the origin points of these books. Right, The truth is at every layer when we talk about right, if you let me finish, if for every layer when we talk about the Bible, right, like I do have to rely on other people because I wasn't there when the book was written. We're

so out of time and place. Lay on that point right there. When you say that, dude, that's your primitive in your position, I don't think that makes me primitive. I think that makes me a responsible researcher in the text that I'm looking at. I really want to finish my point before I let you finish. So I'm going to go ahead, mutual and let me finish my point. Thank you. We have to rely on other people to make interpretations. There is no such thing as a completely independent interpretation of

events when it comes to reading ancient texts. That's just that is a that is a fantasy. I'm sorry. You have to rely on other people's ideas it comes to the literal words being taught, the context and understanding of the stories that are being presented, and also your own life experiences and spiritual interpretations, like there's there's a combination that happens. There this idea that, oh, there's this animal side of us and there's this other side of us.

I think that's too that's too binary. I don't I don't subscribe to this idea. I think it's a limited worldview by which to interpret ancient texts like the Bible. I am on muting you now, so go ahead, Okay, So now, I mean you have a great point, but now this is this is what I'm saying. Anytime you rely depend on man to define your position, when you don't gather it the information yourself, then now you're relying on man universal. Are you not a man? You're relying on divine?

Are you not a man? Universal? Yes? Why should I listen to you? Sir? You are? You are but a man rights and I should not rely on man. And now I don't have to listen to you, right you see you see you see how we can we can kind of I know, but these principles right like like like it sounds like these deep spiritual truths that that that somehow get us to this higher you know, interpretation understanding, But we can just like just just defeat them using simple reason,

right. I mean, look, I again, if if the Bible gets you somewhere and let's you get you get something out of it, that's great. I'm not here to take that away from you. What I am here to say is, look, your interpretation is just that, it's an interpretation, just like my interpretation is interpretation. I don't see why you have or your understanding gives you this idea that you're you now have this hierarchy because

you are putting other people's beliefs down. Essentially, you're saying, look, other people, they don't understand the Bible, right, and I do because I have this magic truth? Right might throw in there too that anything we say, you're just saying, oh, well, that's animal, and I guess if we agree with you, then maybe that's spiritual. So it's very easy to always be right if you just say everybody else is, you know,

they're they're they're relying on the wrong things. I am relying on the right things, which functionally, when you say spiritual, it's your feelings. Yeah, so I don't know really where we can go with this conversation, unfortunately, because I feel like we're going around in circles because it doesn't matter what we say, because we also believe we're animals, just without the spiritual's side. So yeah, I feel like we've reached a bit of an impass

there. I think so too, And that's why I'm gonna go ahead and let you go on this one, because I do want to get at least one more call here before Oh my goodness, I know we're almost we're almost getting done here. But yeah, I would I would hope you could sit with that for a little bit and maybe hear what we have to say, because I know if you're talking, you're can't you're not listening to us,

right, and that goes for both both ways. But just just saying it, and I think I would like clarification, you know, if there's I'm genuinely a little bit confused about where we were headed. It sounded like mysticism, which wasn't quite sure we were going there either. Yeah, I mean, I think I actually find sometimes mysticism when it's clear you're just like I'm making up. It feels good to me, like that's fine, but it's a little boring to have a conversation about. Yes, evidence, there's nothing

there to talk about. If there's some clarity of thought there, that is a conversation, I'd be willing to continue. But regardless, let's try to get at least this last call in here we have otari. I believe police cart me if I'm wrong calling in from Georgia, the country, not the state, which is first time for me. Oh and we just got dropped.

Oh no, oh, just just got terminated. There. I said they were going to defend misogyny in the Bible, defend misogyny in the Bible, And I was like, well, that's a hot tape, Like what are we going to do with this? And now I'm a little bombed out. Tell me how I'm lesser than you daddy. Sorry, I'm sorry Jesus, oh my god. All right, okay, moving on, So with that time, I think we man. We just don't have any other calls in the queue right now, so I could just talk to you about you,

or we could just kind of wrap things up here. What do you think, Sophia. I mean, I don't even know if I'm that interesting. I wonder if I scared people off with my sex sax, so sorry about that. I promise that can be better Scout's honor. No, no, no shame, there's no shame here. I'm just you know, it's surprising, that's all. I just don't expect it. That's what happens.

We'll expect them. It's hilarious, it's funny, it's I'm I'm enjoying it, and I'm looking forward to having you on more shows in the future. So I hope we get to have that happen. If people want to find you, where should they go? Do you have any not? At the moment, I've been thinking about thinking about doing that because people seem to like

talk into me yeah and and make a little comments. So so maybe maybe next time open in well if you if you do have comments again, just reiterate the TV at Atheist Typhon community is the best way at Eightist typing Community dot org is the best way to email the show, and we get all of our stuff from that fee. And I guess we're gonna try to wrap things up here. We got aphists experience later today with myself in blind Limey, so check that out. If you're watching this stream, you'll probably like

that too, if you like at least one of us. So I want to reiterate the prompt is what is inappropriate to say at a religious funeral. So we want your reply in the comments. At the beginning of next week, we will hear the top three answers, and I want to hear from the crew. Can we give it to give it thanks to the crew here in second get that crew Camas Shop for making this show happen. We love that. And uh, I don't think maybe we'll do a shot of the

audience. I don't think we will though the lights are off and the crew has not indicated that we will. That's okay, because we want to thank the audience as well. Well, we'll give it here. There we go. We can the middle where there's fewer people, and I promise there are more people. The camera is panned in on like the one empty spot in the crowd, which is like really funny, and maybe that's why, uh, they didn't get the indication to do that. But thank you to everybody

who showed up live. Just a reminder, of course, if you want to see us live next time October twenty eighth or ninth. It's one of those two which everyone's a Sunday, which everyone's a Sunday, that's gonna be the next one. Oh, we got a super chat last minute from you want to read that one? Alan Alan Ferguson sent us twenty dollars. Thank you Alan, He said, great show, Sophia and Dan, thank thank you, Thank you you Alan Ferguson. Yes, I had a great time

today and I really enjoyed the show. But now it is time for uh, you know the closing love Rings. I think you should do the love rings today, Sophie. You know about the love rings. Yeah, you got charge up your charge up your energy like this. It's like a villain stabula and then you like this, you like just oh and it effects. Isn't that cool? That's magic? That's actually magic. That's the crew doesn't even know what happens. Every time when you do it, it just kind

of happens. They've been trying to fix it because they think it's they think it's some sort of electronic interparence, but nope, that is that's the love. For any interference of our love. Yeah, the love that comes from us to the audience, to the world. So thank you to everybody. And if you don't believe, this is your community and we appreciate you being here. If you do believe, we don't hate you. We're just not convinced. Thanks everybody, have a great rest of your day. I'm a

Jacta Lee Dane gets. We want the truth, So watch Truth Wanted Live Friday at seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot CC, slash y t tw and call into the show at five one two nine nine one nine two four two, or connect to the show I'm mine at tiny dot CC slash call tw