The Andrew Formerly Known As Prince

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Good morning and welcome to Morning Glory right here on Talk. I'm Mr. Kevin O'Sullivan and I'll be with you all the way to 10 o'clock. Ahead live for fantastic hours of news, views and topical debate. Get involved. Get on the phone and call me on 03444 991000. Or you can WhatsApp voice note me on the same number. And I promise to play your message out. It is Friday, October the 31st.

Here's what's coming up. Well, a special good morning to Mr. Mountbatten-Windsor, the Andrew formerly known as Prince. What a brilliant headline on the front page of Today's Sun. Throughout the show, we'll be covering all angles of this extraordinary sensation. unprecedented in royal history. Randy Andy now on his way to a new life of disgrace in a small house on the Sandringham Estate. This oafish lying man-child.

still relying on his big brother's personal generosity. Meanwhile, his lying, conniving horror of a wife, Sarah Ferguson, has been banished completely and told that... From now on, she will have to make her own arrangements. Wow. You mean just like normal grown-ups? But is this craven couple's nightmare over?

Is it hell? A full police investigation is expected into their murky finances and their venal pursuit of dodgy money. Incredibly, royal experts believe that Andy and Fergie could both end up... behind bars, especially Andy, who's denial that he sexually abused teenage Virginia Gaffray or Virginia Roberts, as she was known then. on three different continents absolutely no one believes, including the rest of the royal family, is the king's excoriating statement.

made devastatingly clear in other news. By the way, let me know what you think about this royal earthquake, this seismic royal event. Give me a call, 03444991000 or as I say, leave me a WhatsApp and we'll definitely play that out. In other news, the plot sickens. as Chancellor Rachel Reeves' tale of woe over her illegal failure to get a landlord's licence to rent out her family home in South London seems to change every day.

Keir Starmer firing off a dizzying number of letters, drawing a line under the entire Messi affair. Well, I write two letters, but he's written two letters in two days. exonerating her. How many more times is he going to exonerate her? If only the rest of us had a Prime Minister to exonerate us when we break the law. Why is Rachel from Accounts getting special treatment?

Who was it that said lawmakers cannot be lawbreakers? Oh, I know. It was Keir Starmer. How odd that he's changed his mind. But then again, our dear leader does love his two-tier justice. One rule for the Westminster bubble gang and a different rule for the electorate. No wonder useless Lump Starmer is the most unpopular Prime Minister ever. All that and so much more. So don't go anywhere. Stick with me right here, right now on Talk, the home of free speech and common sense. Let's spend Friday.

morning together. And I guess we've got to spend the morning or at least the next hour with me. It's a political commentator, former Conservative Special Advisor Charlie Rowley. Welcome. Morning. Morning, Kevin. Thanks for having me. What a very upbeat welcome. Hello, that was. We're pretending we're wide awake. Now, actually, we are wide awake. I mean, sometimes it is hard to keep your eyes open at these ungodly hours being up since three.

3.30 when you've been up since? Half four, a little bit later. Half four, half five. You've got an extra hour of sleep than me. No wonder he's so perky. That was a lion. But you know, sometimes, I'll be honest with you, it's hard to keep your eyes open when you get up in the middle of... the night and early hours and you come in here but no problem with that in that respect today because we are wide awake because of this extraordinary royal story. And well...

The Sun today, the paper review now, of course, but there it is, the Sun's front page. The Andrew, formerly known as Prince, one of the great all-time headlines that, I'll tell you, it really is. Sun is the home of fantastic headlines. I used to work there myself years ago, and boy, we came up with some beauties.

Right, and the Andrew, formerly known as Prince, this extraordinary statement from Buckingham Palace last night which sealed his fate. I'll read it out to you because it is worth... another listen right his majesty has today initiated a formal process to remove the style titles and honors of prince andrew prince andrew will now be known as andrew mountbatten windsor his lease on royal lodge has to date provided him with legal protection to continue in residence formal notice

has now been served to surrender the lease and he will move to alternative private accommodation. These censures are deemed necessary notwithstanding... The fact that he continues to deny the allegations against him. Very important sentence to that. Their Majesties wish to make it clear that their thoughts and utmost sympathies have been... and will remain with the victims and survivors of any

And all forms of abuse. Charlie, the form of abuse they're talking about is sexual abuse. And the person they're talking about is Virginia Gaffray, who is believed to have taken her life, her own life, as she was only 40. She did lead a very, very sad and tragic life. Passed around from man to man.

farmed out if you like by Jeffrey Epstein or his madam as she was then Ghislaine Maxwell one of her clients as if you like said to have been Prince Andrew in fact what the hell it was Prince Andrew wasn't it Prince Andrew denies this. He continues to deny that he sexually abused this poor little 17 year old girl on three different continents. Who in the world believes him? It is him clinging on to that little boy lie.

that is partially responsible for his fate today. And in this statement, Charlie, from the king, the royal family, the king and the royal family, make it clear that along with the rest of us, they don't believe a word. And, of course, Virginia Gaffray's book has just come out last week. It's called Nobody's Girl, and it chronicles in intimate and excruciating details what Andrew did to her on three different...

I won't go into too many details, but she described him as an aggressive lover, or lover is not the word, is it? An aggressive sexual abuser obsessed with her feet. There's more details if you want to buy them. The book is well worth a read. It's a very harrowing read. It's the tale of a poor girl from America, wrong side of the tracks, who ended up being passed around. between rich men like a piece of meat. But the sentence that I think is...

Really telling in this statement from Buckingham Palace, Royal Communications, Thursday the 30th October. It says... After announcing that he will no longer be called Prince, he will lose all of his titles officially. It says, these censures are deemed necessary notwithstanding the fact that he continues to deny the allegations against him. What they're saying there is, why do you continue?

to deny these allegations it is the most pathetic and poignant aspect of this entire sordid saga I think that's absolutely right Kevin and you've summed up what the whole nation is effectively thinking and will be thinking today on Halloween. Let's not forget. I thought of that. Andrew's Halloween horror. Exactly. A nightmare set of headlines for Andrew. And again.

You know, you can't get away from the fact that he continued. And this is the thing, because he paid, he settled out of court with Virginia Giffray, as you say. a nice sum of £12 million. So he didn't have a day in court. He's never been prosecuted. He's never been convicted. But he continued a relationship that he said he'd ended. with Jeffrey Epstein, a man that was a convicted paedophile that was rightly behind bars for the abuse and the...

trauma that he inflicted on young girls' lives, including Virginia Giffray. There's no doubt about that. So Andrew continuing his relationship when he said he had ended it, the man is a liar. There's no doubt about that. Because the timeline... shows it and that is clearly why the royal family

I mean, you know, it shouldn't have just been that. But that has become the tipping point of this saga, having been stripped of his dukedom, you know, supposedly last week. Now he's been stripped of absolutely everything. Yeah, I want to ask you, get your thoughts on this, Charlie, as well.

as an audience out there. Let me know what you think about this. This royal family, you know, I like Charles. He's a nice guy, you know. I don't like his green claptrap, but that's up to him, I suppose. I don't think he should impose it on us. We're told the royal family are supposed to be above politics, never be political. Well, old Charlie and William, I mean, they're green fanatics.

bombard us with their political views on the environment day in, day out. So they kind of break the rules there. But that notwithstanding, you know, Charlie seems like a decent enough guy, you know, nice bloke and all that. However, however, he does seem to me...

to be making up the rules as he goes along with Andrew. I think... two weeks ago was it two weeks ago when he announced or when it was announced that Andrew would magnanimously cease to refer to himself as the Duke of York, Earl of Inverness and also Baron Killilea. northern ireland title uh when that was announced uh i think charlie thought oh yeah well that should be all right well it wasn't all right the public because then we subsequently learned well although

He won't call himself the Duke of York. He actually still is the Duke of York. He still has those titles by law. We were then told, well, the king, you know, such a generous spirited guy. It requires an act of parliament to strip him of those titles. And the king doesn't want... to bother busy MPs with such a trifling matter. And the public said, well, if it takes an Act of Parliament, that's fine by us. We do want to bother busy MPs. And by the way...

Had it have been an act of parliament, that would have swept through the house in about 10 minutes. Wouldn't have bothered them at all. Anyway, now, today, we learn, oh, it doesn't require... an act of parliament because his majesty has initiated a formal process to remove the style titles and honours of Prince Andrew. So he can do it. The king can do it. on his own uh what is that about i i just think that as i say the king is

Nice guy, I think. He's tried to be nice-ish to his brother, angry with him though he is. He tried to get away with, say, oh, don't worry, he won't call himself the Duke of York anymore. The public go, that's not good enough. And suddenly we learned that he doesn't need an act of parliament to strip him of his titles. So I think the king...

has been led by the public here. What the royal family is in, make no mistake, is a battle for its very survival. Andrew threatened the royal family. A recent poll, incredibly.

because of Andrew, revealed that 52% of British people would like to get rid of the royals, would like to get rid of the monarchy. That is unprecedented, and that's because of Andrew. That is why the king is doing this now, because he's... finally woken up to the level of fury around the country about his sordid, dreadful, lying venal brother.

Again, no one can put it better. No one can put it better yourself. But you're absolutely right. And no doubt the pressure came from Prince William. who completely and utterly disowned Andrew at the recent funeral. Yeah, that was such a scene, wasn't it? The Duchess of Kent. Exactly, because he didn't want anything to do with Andrew. And I think the two of them, obviously, you know, William's going to inherit the throne at some point in the future and doesn't want...

any of this baggage, doesn't want any of this dark cloud hanging over his reign. And so I think he has probably been instrumental in talking to his dad and Charles and saying, look, as you said, the whole family is at stake here, our whole legacy. And the whole country is now turning against us because of one man who has been continued to be looked after by others within the royal family. He now needs to go.

public discovered that he was still living in some grace and favour. It wasn't a two up, two down. It was a 30 up, 30 down. Exactly. Paying peppercorn rent when the rest of us are still thinking, hello, that's not in tune. with the British public. And that's not in tune with the British people. He needs to take a complete step back. But you're absolutely right. We were told that it would require an act of parliament.

And MPs were coming out to say, well, that would only take about 10 minutes. Don't worry, Charlie, it wouldn't take long. Exactly, exactly. But now we don't need one. Apparently he can do it himself. You know, what King Charles is learning, or I'm sorry, it's sort of new anyway.

And what people around the world, particularly Americans, Kinsey Schofield will be in later. She understands it because she's a much greater royal expert than any of us put together. She's more British than the rest of us put together as she lives in California. Spends all her time in the union.

Jack dresses and everything. But seriously, Americans, you know, the king rules. What rules Britain? Well, you know, of course he doesn't because we're a democracy. Parliament rules Britain. But what... the king is learning or learning a little more shall we say that in the end the people rule the royal family we dictate what they can and cannot do and if we the people decide.

something needs to be done, the king had better obey us. And that's what he's done. That's what he's done. Yeah, and there will have to be some involvement of Parliament. I think it will now, I think lawyers are drawing up what they need to do, which they'll send some sort of, you know, letter to parliament and you know they will just sign it off rather than debate it in parliament whether they'll be passing a law or whatever they have to do so there will be that

parliamentary involvement which is the sign of the people because that is the democracy that is obviously as history tells us. So there will be that process but it is more of a process rather than a demonstration of Parliament's muscles. being flexed to say we are stripping Andrew of his size. The king is, contrary to what we were told, Abel. to personally strip his brother of his title. I suppose it's a minor point, but it really irritates me.

I think the king has been trying to get, or the royal family, if you like, have been trying to get away with as little as possible on this, and they are learning fast, day by day, that the public won't have it. You're not just going to get away. with, you know, oh, it's alright, don't worry, he won't call himself the Duke of York anymore. That's not good enough. And by the way...

Here's another aspect to the debate that's been going on for a couple of weeks since he agreed, generously agreed not to call himself the Duke of York anymore. All these experts... Well, of course, you know, we could pass an Act of Parliament and get rid of the Duke of York and the Earl of Inverness and the Baron killer there. But of course...

Prince, that's his birthright. You can't do anything about him being called Prince. Apparently today you can. And you're right. And I think what people will ask who... Who are the people that have been advising the Royal Family or advising Parliament or advising that that is the case? I suspect, who knows, but I suspect because... Obviously, the late Queen obviously was on for such a long period of time. The status quo would always have been...

And her view might have been, I don't want to speculate on what she might have thought, but, you know, it might have been, oh, we can't strip Andrew off his titles because by birth... And as Her Majesty the Queen, as she was then, she's obviously passed that on to him by birth. So we can't do anything about it until somebody has now decided, well, actually, let's look a bit deeper in this constitution that we've got. Let's actually go through to subsection.

26.1a found something it's actually in the prerogative of the monarch so the king or queen of the day rather than by birth so someone somewhere I think has done a little bit more research they might have just been lazy the status quo

quo because obviously Her Majesty the Queen was there for so long so under her reign that was obviously the case that it was passed on by birth but if it is the case that it's at the hands of the monarch whoever he or she may be at the time then that's a complete game changer and you could then ask Would that extend to other members of the royal family? Could it? Should it? Well, I know for a fact that...

There's a certain couple on the west coast of America who live in Montecito who are extremely disconcerted by these events because William and Catherine, the Princess of Wales, who, by the way, as you quite rightly say, Charlie, are big movers and shakers in these developments. William, much harder-hearted, or that's not fair, much more...

Much less soft-hearted than his dad, let's put it that way. And Catherine, who's quite the tour de force, trust me, they have forced this through. They have told Charlie... King Charles you've got to do this you've got to do this and Well, I'm not wishing him away, but when William ascends to the throne I predict

that one of his first acts will be to announce that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex are no more. They are... Well, what will they be called? Will they be called Harry and Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor? Will it be that? Well, will they still be together? Who's to save? Across the UK on DAB+. Your sign. This is talk. What I want to ask you, Kinsey, I said this to Charlie Riley, I'm slightly confused here because this time when we were told, don't worry, the king said, don't worry.

Andrew won't call himself the Duke of York anymore he'll renounce his titles but he'll officially still have them and of course he can't stop being called Prince that's his birthright suddenly today The king does seem to be able to officially, formally remove the titles from his brother and also apparently... We can stop. He can be stripped of the right to call himself Prince. Hi, Harry and Meghan. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, they'll be following this story very closely, trust me. But seriously, the game and the rules seem to be changing as we go along. I think that there was a sense of urgency as this story continued to evolve and, you know, really hijack headlines away from the good that the royal family's trying to do. Prince William doesn't hop on a plane to Rio to execute a giant Earthshot event.

because he wants it to be completely ignored by the humiliation of Prince Andrew. And that's where William's headed, because he wants all eyeballs on Earthshot. I can imagine that this was one of his biggest arguments. Do you mean Earthshot, where Prince William reserves the right to break royal tradition and get involved in politics? Along with the king. They're not allowed to be involved in politics unless it's net zero.

I love Prince William, so I plead the fifth here. But yeah, so I think that it was just an avalanche of negative stories that continued to come out. And you and I... have had the conversation about what could potentially loom i'm not saying that there could be worse out there but you know when you see a pylon like this and you see andrew lose a little bit of power, will that give some of the other alleged victims the courage to finally step up and say, I want to say...

This was my experience. The ghostwriter of Virginia's book says, I have audio tapes that I've hidden from the world. Don't come after me, but they exist. The Epstein files continue to leak. What other emails exist? What other creepy one-liners are out there?

I think that the palace is really, the palace learns the hard way that they can't trust Andrew through the leak of those emails. Yeah, no one can trust that. Right. And so I think that they have just decided we're going to distance ourselves. But can I tell you something that is being reported in the...

states that might really frustrate you um the daily beast tom sykes is reporting that andrew was paid millions to go away that one of his demands was millions of dollars and that the They claim that the king is paying Andrew Millions to go away. I don't know about that. I mean, of course I don't know about it. I mean, it's an interesting story. But the thing is about William, and especially Fergie, Sarah Ferguson is a former wife.

The fear is that in their disgrace and their penury, because money may be an issue for both of them now, that they might write a tell-all book. So why wouldn't you give them millions to shut them up? uh so it's but that's my point yeah it's it's entirely possible uh but uh i think i said to you the other day i mean the public don't care about that this isn't about the royal family i mean the world that this is about

The public is telling the royal family what to do now. Charles has received his instructions from the nation and he's carrying them out. Two weeks ago, he tried to get away with saying, don't worry, he won't call himself the Duke of York anymore. So we go, all right, that's all right. Of course, he can't take Prince away from him. That's his birthright. We go, okay then. And although...

He won't officially lose these titles because you need an Act of Parliament for that. And the King doesn't want to bother Parliament with that. That Act of Parliament... It may still be necessary, but it doesn't seem like it is. Take about 10 minutes. You'll race through. So that's nonsense. But it seems now that they don't need an Act of Parliament and it also seems now suddenly we can strip him of the right to call himself Prince. As I say, the rules seem to be changing as they go along.

Maybe the king's more powerful than we ever imagined. No, he's less powerful than he ever imagined. That's the truth. But, you know, I think that this has been a hard 20... Four hours, 48 hours for Andrew. He's an ecomaniac. He will hate being Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. I'm going to go out of my way to ensure that I refer to him as Mr. Mountbatten-Windsor or Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor because...

You know, he says he's innocent of what Virginia accuses him of. And if we accept that as truth, there's no... I don't accept it. Well, if you do, there's no justification for his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. He's a liar. You're right about Virginia Gaffray. This book, Andrew Lowney's book a month or so ago, entitled The Rise and Fall of the House of York. I mean, this...

This process of Andrew's fall from grace and Fergus has been going on now for years, ever since he paid £12 million to stop Virginia Gaffray going to civil court in America. So at that point, I'm giving her £12 million not to go to court, but of course I deny her allegations. I've never met her. Why are you giving her £12 million then? Right. You know, people go to the court, clear your name. I don't think I'll do that. So nobody's believed. But I think this is what I said earlier.

Possibly the most exoriating line in this statement from Buckingham Palace is this. You know, Prince Andrew will now be known as Andrew Mountbatten wins a royal lodge. These censures are deemed necessary notwithstanding the fact that he continues to deny the allegations against him. that Charles and the royal family are as frustrated as the rest of the nation that this man-child continues to say, I didn't do it, I didn't do it, I didn't do it. He's just lying, isn't he?

It's impossible. I mean, Charles is in a difficult situation. You talk about that payout. You know, that was the Queen's team that wanted to do that so that she could have a clean platinum Jubilee.

I wonder how resentful the king must be or might be of the king's team for not really taking care of this situation. This was an inherited problem that... exploded during his reign, a reign that he waited 70 years for, and a reign where he didn't realize he was going to be having to babysit his brother. And to go on, these dissenters are deemed necessary notwithstanding the fact that he continues to deny the allegations against him. And then he goes on to say again.

you know this is essentially saying to hell with you andrew you are lying it says their majesties wish to make clear that their thoughts and utmost sympathies have been and will remain with the victims and survivors of any and all forms of abuse. What they actually mean there is the victims and survivors of sexual abuse and they are essentially saying Andrew sexually abused Virginia Gopre.

I'm saying it the nation is saying it what are you going to do about it Mr Windsor Mr Mountbatten Windsor you sexually abused that woman on three different continents didn't you it's clear that's what the palace believe i believe it i think you believe it i don't i don't i don't want to be involved don't worry about it don't worry about it he ain't gonna do anything he ain't gonna do anything

And it's his little boy lie that has got him into this deep trouble. It's pathetic. You know, I think the downfall looking back at all of this was the arrogance and thinking that you were going to outsmart the BBC. Yes!

And the nation and the world. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, that entitle and arrogance and delusion was on full display for the world to see. And, you know, when you see something like that, it challenges you and you say, well, I'm going to... catch you in a lie and what he did right there was he inspired including Virginia a lot of people to catch him in a lie and

Here we are. There's two things I want to say about the new domestic arrangements. Of course, Fergie, this is proving to me that in the end, the king and the royal family and William have decided, well, if you write your tell-all book... uh andrew or fergie to hell with you just do it to hell with you because they've said to fergie you're on your own

They've said she will from now on make her own arrangements. As I said earlier in the show, oh, my God. You mean she's going to have to pay her own way, you know, like normal adults? For the first time in her life? For the first time in her life. I'll tell you. See, this is what happens. when you promote people from below stairs. She's a servant. She was the daughter of a servant. You should never let them upstairs. I'm joking. Yeah, he's kidding. Yeah, yeah. So...

Mind you, mind you, it isn't a great idea because people from below stairs look at the upstairs people and they think, God, I'd like to live like that. And if they do get the chance, they tend to behave like Fergie, abuse their position. Remember at the beginning, everybody thought they were, they misbehaved and everybody thought it was so cute. They were lively. They were fun. Yes, exactly. And you realize, actually. She's incorrigible. Yeah. And you're like, actually, she's out of control.

And she is a menace. So what I was going to say about this, she's on her own, which means she almost certainly will write a tell-all book, as I say. I'll look forward to reading it. The royal family have basically said, do your work. Tell us more about growths on your body. Yeah, well, they've said, to hell with you, do your work. You remember she wrote about Diana giving her warts.

in her last book. Well, we could talk about that all morning, didn't we? But let's not. But what about Andrew? Andrew, so he's going to be given this free house. Well, he would have to have a ghost blogger, I believe. Yeah, but he's...

Yeah, well, that's for damn sure. But he's been given this free house, or he will be, by his brother. Now, if he's got this mysterious wealth, which we keep being told he has... Why is he giving him a free house? Why doesn't he say to his brother the same as Fergie? Make your own way. Listen to this from the Daily Beast. I'm told that...

Ex-Prince Andrew has received a handsome payoff worth millions in return for surrendering his lease on Royal Lodge. One friend said Andrew made it clear that he needed to be financially recompensated for surrendering the remaining... 50 years of his lease on one of England's finest homes. The lease was his daughter's inheritance and an asset. And in this country, you can't seize people's assets. Charles was always going to pay him off.

and he has done what he should have done in the first place. Another friend of both, Sarah... He wrote this, was it an American? Because you can seize people's assets in this country. Tom Sykes. But they said the pension is handsome. Well, uh... All right, that's one story. Here's what I think happened. If you don't move out of Royal Lodge, Andy, this is I'm being the king now.

If you don't move out of... Hang on, what does he do with his hand in one pocket? If you don't move out of the Royal Lodge, Andrew, I'm going to strip your daughters of their princess titles. That is why he's moving. I think you are under the impression that King Charles is much more confrontational than he is. These were negotiations. I'm giving him a little bit more resolve than he's actually got. These were negotiations from their teams and I don't. I don't know if he would, you know,

Charles genuinely loves Beatrice and Eugenie, wanted to ensure that they weren't, as much as possible, affected by all of this. Otherwise, he could have stripped them of their titles. Yeah, but that was the threat to Andrew. Andrew, to be fair to him. Because Prince William was accused of doing that and his team came out and said, absolutely not. We did not threaten to take the girls' titles. Well, they may have to.

Because both Eugenie and Beatrice's finances, their personal finances, are being ethically, forensically examined. So if they've had their fingers in the murky financial trough, you know... because Andrew used to take them on his weird visits to Arab countries and the Stan country, Kazakhstan and all that, where he seems to have this network of strange billionaires who give him money, took them. He always took them and there is on record that they received some pretty lavish gifts.

from some of these people. If their finances, they're being ethically examined right now, if their finances turn out to be dodgy, they won't be princesses for much longer either.

Well, I mean, that is a huge concern, and I think that that's something that's already in motion, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Those questions are being asked, and people are already forensically combing over some of those transactions. relationships to date yeah and just finally Kinsey thanks for coming in so early by the way I really do appreciate it the prospect of prison

I mean, it is realistic. It genuinely is. Andrew Lowney, who wrote entitled The Rise and Fall of the House of York, just said, as you said, there is so much more to come out. He stands accused of sexually assaulting Virginia Roberts as she was then in London. Now, people don't get away with that in this country. We're very fond of our historical... convictions, our historical police investigations. There's a prospect that Mr Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor could end up behind bars.

That is a possibility. Watch this space is really the only thing I can say. It would be such a devastating thing to see the king have to... watch all of this unfold knowing that he waited so long for this job but people want to hold the powerful accountable and this is one of those instances where

If he really is guilty of this, it's appalling that he spent the last few years just with his feet up, watching airplanes, playing Call of Duty, at shooting parties with his friends, riding around on his family's horses, and not having... having any consequences for to suffer any consequences for his actions exactly right and i think uh i mean there is this last thing so so the one thing we can say that both

uh keep wanting to call him prince andrew for mr mountbatten windsor and uh sarah ferguson as she only is now this is not over is it it's not over Their nightmare is far from over. I think there will be a police investigation into both of them, certainly into Andrew, and who knows where that may take them. But this is extraordinary. And that last point, Kinsey, again, thanks for coming in. There's just this feeling that the Queen was this rock for so many years, seven decades.

that kept the royal family anchored and stable. she's gone and some ever since she died it seems to have fallen apart at the seams the king seems to be finding a backbone now but he better find one more and more going forward because this isn't over better get his act together. Kiernzy, great to see you. You're on your way back to the States tomorrow, yeah? I am, yeah. And then you're returning.

yes when are you returning i don't i don't want i don't want to tell everybody yeah all right all right okay well when you do uh oh yeah i forgot i forgot this yes Are you telling me that when I return, I'm going to have a lot of waiting for me? I was actually sort of asking you personally because we've got to get together. Shouldn't really do it on air.

But anyway, let me know off air. Yeah. So this. Yes. As ever, it's Meghan's festive fair with sprinkles of high grove. This compares the royal estates, the Duchy of Cornwalls. Honey, Highgrove, that's the king's honey to her, as ever honey. Highgrove honey is £9. Hers is £24. And Highgrove is sold out.

Yeah, and so forth. All of these scented candles, they all, first of all, they all look pretty much the same. Yeah, identical. All of her products look the same as the royal products, and all of her products cost twice as much. Mm-hmm, yeah. I mean... Talking of grifters,

So how you doing, Megan? Exactly. It looks so desperate, the way that she carbon copies the keys. I didn't realize. I mean, we knew about the extraordinary expense of these items. I mean, quite why she thinks anyone's going to pay $64 for a candle. And honestly, I might pay a grand. I might pay a grand for a huge box of... royal champagne or royal wine. But I'm not going to pay a grand for Montecito grapes. What did I say to you? I said it to you twice now. I'm quite pleased with this phrase.

In the words of George Michael, my belief is this could be as ever's last Christmas. Thank you, Quincy.

If it wasn't for Andrew, Rachel Reeves would be all over every front page. To its credit, she's still on the front page of the Daily Mail, which broke this story, Benedict, about her murky... domestic rental affairs. She's got a house in South London, a family home, moves into... Moves into number 11 Downing Street, as chancellors do, and she's rented this place out. Turns out she didn't get a landlord's licence. She said at first, well, nobody told me about it.

Then suddenly they did tell her about it, but they didn't carry through. So her story, she says, oh, dear Prime Minister, nobody told me I needed a lice. I'm very sorry about that. Prime Minister writes back, oh, yeah, well, you've been so a model of honesty and integrity. Your apology draws a line over the fact, over this entire murky affair. Next day, oh, the letting agent said, well, we did tell her, but... it was our fault because we didn't really follow up on it.

So she then writes to the Prime Minister again to say, oh, well, I've found another letter, an email, which does, they did tell us about it, but we all sort of forgot about it. You know, so he's written again to say, oh, well, you know, your second apology. and your second story proves what a fantastic person you are, we're drawing a line under it. I think what we're all saying is that when we break the law, we wish we had a prime minister to constantly exonerate us.

special treatment and I don't think she deserves it. Yeah, you're quite right. Thank you for sparing me for having to talk about Andrew, by the way. That's a small mercy, but, you know, thank you so much. I think everybody's glad. I think, honestly, it's one of those things where I think people would be more than prepared to accept that maybe it was an oversize and maybe it wasn't.

wasn't her fault if it wasn't for the fact that this is such you know this is just another example of so many senior politicians in this Labour government who have made mistakes or dropped the ball or forgotten about sorts of things. You know, be it Louise Haig, be it the former Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner. There are so many people who just seem to, you know, have casually...

done the wrong thing. And they just weren't aware that what they'd done was in fact the wrong thing. Even though, oh, in this case, she just happens to be the Chancellor of the Exchequer. You know, these are the people that set the laws and ought to be aware of the laws of the country that govern the rest of us. say the rest of us would not be permitted any kind of special treatment um in this case i think it's

very clear that she should have to pay back the money that she's earned on this property because she didn't have a license. Now, you know, technically her tenants will be able to claim back the rent that they have paid for living in an unlicensed property. You'd think... actually, that the first thing that the Prime Minister would do

is slap people down a little harder for this. To say, look, we're supposed to be setting an example here. We're ostensibly going to be putting in, and especially in the case of Rachel Reeves, huge tax rises in a couple of weeks on working people up and down this country. We're going to be trying to take...

huge amounts of their assets as well, if we can. I need to make a better example of people, the very people who are going to be stood at the lectern making these decisions. He's not done that. As you say, he's received one story, he said, ah, that's all right.

then received another one and gone oh that's all right then what exactly you know what what do we have here in terms of leadership how how are people supposed to sit there and listen to the risers that are coming down the line and think that it's in any way fair when he just turns a blind eye to this

Yeah, don't forget he is the Prime Minister who said that lawmakers cannot be lawbreakers. She's broken the law. Also, the murky thing about this is that she's changed her story. You know, the first thing was, well, the thing is, nobody told us, nobody told us that we needed to buy this £900 landlord's licence. That's peculiar, particular to Dulwich Council. about is to make sure that your property is properly fireproofed and safe and all that.

Fair enough, I guess. Quite why it costs 900 quid, that's another matter. But you know what local councils are like, always trying to rip us off. But then suddenly it's like, oh, the letting agents go, well, we did tell her. Yeah, we did tell her, but it's our... because we didn't really follow up on it. So she then says, oh, we've now found another email that sort of changes my story.

And it's a bit like get your act together. And once again, I just think this looks like, funnily enough, two-tier justice. One rule for the Westminster elite and another rule for the rest of us. Yes, even if it is the letting agent that's dropped the ball on this, she should have followed up. She should understand at the very least. Let's take the idea that this was all an innocent mistake.

She knew that there was a licence that was needed, as you say. This has already been revealed now, and she's had to write to the Prime Minister to go, oh, whoops, yeah, maybe I did, and I maybe wasn't entirely forthcoming. But she knew that this licence existed, and as the incoming Chancellor of the Exchequer, as she... was at the time she should have known full well she would be placed under even greater scrutiny it's not a good enough

um excuse to say oh well it's the letting agents fault they dropped the ball having made it clear to them that they would need this she should have followed up or her husband should have followed up and said hang on where is this license because i would have thought just putting this out there

If you're renting out a property and you're told you need a license to do this, that would be a great big alarm bell going, this is something you need to do. And somebody may dig into it at some point. But the other thing that I would say is, and I also sort of talk about this.

time when it came to angela rayner why isn't the big takeaway for labour mps and labour ministers from all of these little things that life in the uk is becoming a increasingly expensive and be unnecessarily complicated people just trying to live their lives why is it that the takeaway from any of these things is never ah

I've been caught out. Me, a senior government minister, the chancellor, the housing minister, the deputy prime minister. Even I have been caught out by these rules. Maybe we might want to change the rules for ordinary people. That's never the argument. It's instead just double down. and make life more difficult, and we'll explain away as we go. And then they'll come up with their time-honoured phrase, lessons have been learned, lessons are never learned. The home of common sense. This.

You were staying at the house of a convicted sex offender. It was a convenient place to stay. I mean, I've gone through this in my mind so many times. At the end of the day... with the benefit of all the hindsight that one could have, it was definitely the wrong thing to do. But at the time I felt it was the honourable and right thing to do. And I admit fully that my judgment was probably colored by my tendency to be too honorable, but that's just the way it is.

His tendency to be too honourable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Well, moving on, let's welcome to the show Mr John Rental, Chief Political Commentator at The Independent. Hello, John. Good morning, Kevin. I haven't seen that clip because I'm... not interested in the royal family so I've never watched that interview but that is priceless I recommend it for the sheer comedy value how does it feel now

Mr. Rental to be on the same social status as the former Prince Andrew, who's now Mr. Windsor, Mountbatten Windsor. How does it feel? Well, I'd like to extend that principle to other members of the royal family. I don't believe in the monarchy and I think they should all follow suit. Well, I need to get on to Rachel Rees, but it's interesting you say that because the reason I think the king has finally, finally realised he better get seriously tough with his disastrous brother.

is that a recent poll revealed that 52% of the British people now think because of Andrew, we might as well ditch this lot. Do they? 52%? Well, put it this way. that if Andrew hung around. there would be trouble for the royal family. Most of this country is staunchly royalist. It's being that staunch monarchism.

among the people of this country has been diluted by Andrew. That's why we're seeing suddenly, or at long last, strong action by the king. What I think is surprising is how little it has been dented by Andrew.

by the former the former Prince Andrew. I think people are remarkably resilient in their support for the for the monarchy. It's probably a bit like, you know, like a bands when i was a teenager you know if they become too popular i didn't like them so if if public opinion decided that they wanted to get rid of the monarchy i'd probably be defending it yeah you old rebel you uh yeah so i believe that this is the point in the program

where I have to have a flaming rail with you. Is that right? Well, let's not bother with that for once. Rentals rumble. Yeah, rentals rumble. Let's talk about Rachel Reeves, who, according to the Prime Minister's... increasing numbers of letters of exoneration to her also has a tendency to be too honourable. Seriously, I mean, look...

The problem here is that she started, well, she was found out by the Daily Mail, so she writes this sort of traditional letter, oh, you're a prime minister, oversight, and all that kind of stuff. I didn't know about it. Nobody told us about the fact we were supposed to get a £900. landlord's licence to rent out our private home in Dulwich because, of course, the family moved to 11 Downing Street. Nobody told us.

Then the letting agents, I think, thinking they would help her, came out and said, well... We dropped the ball on it. You know, we said we'd have to get this, like we told Rachel and her husband, have to get this license. And then I'm afraid the member of staff in charge of their case suddenly resigned and we forgot all about it. Rachel suddenly writes back to the Prime Minister, oh, well, it turns out I did know about it. I did know about it. I've just found an email.

confirming that what I previously told you wasn't true. I did know about it, but of course it's not my fault. Well, here's another note. Once again, Rachel, you proved yourself to be a person of unbelievable integrity and honesty. and I think your apology, once again, your second apology, draws a line under the whole...

Now, you know, this isn't murder. This isn't the worst crime in the world. But she's broken the law, changed her story rather suspiciously. And all of us, all of us peasants around the country are thinking. Well, when we break the law, if only we could have a prime minister to constantly exonerate us and write us a letter saying we're in the clear. It's one rule for them and one rule for the rest of us. People are annoyed about this.

Yeah, no, well, I agree with that last bit, Kevin. It's one rule for them and one rule for the rest of us. It's a much tougher rule for a politician than for a normal person. They're held to much higher standards. So why doesn't she resign? Why isn't she sad? She's broken the law. She's the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Doesn't seem to me she's being held up. You've just admitted it wasn't. It's not murder. It's not a serious offence. It's not a sacking offence. It's a bureaucratic oversight.

The interesting question, I think... Well, there are two interesting questions. She's broken the law. I mean, I know, not massively, but she's broken the law. She's the Chancellor of the Exchequer. If this government had any integrity, if the Prime Minister had any integrity... which he clearly doesn't, he would sack her. If she had any integrity, we are having a row, aren't we? If she had any integrity, she would resign.

No, I completely disagree. Lawmakers cannot be lawbreakers. Who said that? Who said that? Boris Johnson. Who said that? It was Keir Starmer. She's a lawmaker. She's broken the law.

I agree. They're guilty. They're guilty of hypocrisy. Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak broke the law. I didn't think it mattered. I didn't think a bit of birthday cake in number 10 was a serious offence. I didn't think they should resign. But Labour called for the... to resign yeah rachel reeves rachel reeves said that rishi sunak should resign um and uh therein lies the problem john can i just play you a quick clip this is uh said rachel reeves rachel from accounts

on rule bakers talking to good morning britain in 2021 it now turns up that the very people at the top of government making these rules for everybody else I didn't think that they applied it to them. I don't think that we can have a situation where there's one set of rules for one group of people, another for everybody else.

Well, the word hypocrisy springs to mind. I mean, seriously, John, you know, lawmakers cannot be lawbreakers. She has broken the law. Yes, they can, actually, because Boris Johnson was a lawbreaker. Well, they shouldn't be, should they? Well, obviously they should avoid breaking the law if they can. In the ideal world, yes. Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson didn't know they were breaking the law and they... You know, it was a stupid law anyway. I mean, they passed it. It's Boris Johnson's fault.

Let's not talk about Boris Johnson. She, who I admit has many faults. You know, I'm no fan of Boris Johnson, who we have a prime minister now who lies as a hobby. But Boris Johnson made it a lifestyle. But surely, you know, she's... essentially lied to the Prime Minister in that first... No, she hasn't. She did. She said, I didn't know anything about it. Kevin, you've got to be very careful with the L word. I've warned you lot before. A lie is a deliberate...

Sorry, Your Honour. No, look, she'd forgotten. or at least her husband hadn't told her that the estate agent promised to take care of this licence. So she inadvertently misstated the facts to the Prime Minister. That's not right. You're sounding like a sort of mealy-mouthed politician. I inadvertently misstated the facts. That's code for I lied. That's code for I lied.

No, it's not. It's a completely different meaningful word. Well, why did she write to the Prime Minister saying, I didn't know anything that nobody told me anything about? Because she'd forgotten about it. Oh, come on. It's a stupid, pitiful, and bureaucratic bit of rule. She'd forgot. about it well she never knew I wouldn't forget about that would you

Yeah, what I would be saying if I was her... Oh, my God. All these local authority regulations. I mean... Well, that's another issue. I mean, why is there all this red tape? I agree with you. It's a ridiculous example of pettifying... It is. I agree with that. I totally agree with that. But the other the other example that's closer to home that you could also quote, if you like, is Angela Rayner. How come Angela Rayner had to resign and and Rachel Reeves didn't?

Because, I mean, they're both they're both guilty of exactly the same thing. Angela Rayner inadvertently didn't pay enough stamp duty because she thought she thought she'd got rid of her home in her constituency. She didn't realise that. putting it into trust for her son who's got disabilities.

meant that she would be liable for the higher rate of stamp duty. So her case is exactly the same in principle as Rachel Reeves. And yet Angela Rayner's been dispatched to the outer darkness and the Chancellor's still there. Well, put it another way. Dan Hodges is saying today that she broke the law and then she misled the prime minister.

Well, that's better than using the L word. She inadvertently misled the Prime Minister because she either didn't know or had forgotten about the correspondence with the estate agents, which was all handled by her husband. If you believe that she forgot that, then I've got some swampland to sell you in Florida. I mean, I missed the day that you were born yesterday. I mean, seriously, come on.

I mean, look. You started this, Kevin. You started this by saying it wasn't a serious offence. No, no, no, it's not. But, you know, arguably breaking into the Watergate building wasn't in itself a serious offence. When they started lying about it...

It's in politics so often it is not the actual offence. It's the subsequent cover up. She has committed an offence and she's trying to cover it up. That's what it looks like. That's what it looks like to the public, John. Well, in that case, the public's wrong. I mean, that's very that's very simple. I mean, she hasn't she hasn't done anything seriously wrong. She should stay in post, but I don't think Angela Rayner should have been sacked either.

Well, okay. Well, technically she wasn't sacked, was she? Sorry, she shouldn't have resigned. She was resigned, as they say. She, quite honourably, perhaps she, rather than Andrew. She's like Prince Andrew.

She's too honourable. She's too honourable, isn't she? No, no, no. But there's another good point that you're inadvertently making, if I may say so, John, that, you know, if Angela Rayner had to fall on her sword and walk the plank... uh for that kind of if you like inadvertent oversight about her stamp duty why doesn't rachel reeves have to do the same this is pretty inconsistent isn't it exactly i mean it's not only hypocrisy

because because she called for Rishi Sunak to resign. It's inconsistent on the prime minister's part because he allowed Angela Rayner to resign. He should have he should refuse to accept Angela Rayner's How do you think that would have gone down with the public? Well, not well, but I think the public is mistaken on issues like this. I think politicians are held to a higher standard of account than... Well, come on, John, you're contradicting yourself. I would agree with that. Therefore...

Therefore, we shouldn't be dismissing this as just a minor infringement. Because politicians are held to a higher account, she shouldn't be allowed to break the law and then say, oh, I forgot that they told me. I'm winning this argument, aren't I? No, I don't think so. You started off by saying it wasn't a sacking offence. I didn't say that. See, look, it's typical Westminster type. I didn't say that. I said it wasn't a massive crime. I didn't say it wasn't a sacking offence. I say it is a...

Thank you, Kevin. Listen, how dare you? Right, this is what Rachel Reeves, Rachel from Accounts, tweeted last week. I welcome Leeds City Council's decision to expand their selective landlord licensing policy to include the armly area. This scheme means private landlords in the area will be required to... by law, to obtain a licence for any residential property they are seeking to let. That's a pretty incendiary tweet to have sent just last week. It was two years ago, Kevin.

You're absolutely right. That's when she tweeted it, though. No, no, it was two years ago. Well, OK, so this is her... Well, I'm not sure about that. I thought it was last week. But anyway... This is, you know, she's on the case. She's on the case about landlord licensing policy. But she says, first of all, no one told her about it in Dulwich. And then suddenly they did tell her about it, but she forgot. Now, as someone...

who is dead keen on landlord licensing, she should have been across her own landlord licensing. Surely. Come on. Of course she should. Yes. I mean, she showed woeful lack of attention. to detail is not a good sign in a Chancellor of the Exception. You want someone who's across the detail and able to pay attention to obscure bits of pettifogging over-regulation.

um i don't think it's a sacking offense well yeah but i i don't i i mean you and i are going to differ on this obviously but i i don't see how you can say Yeah, I said it's a relatively minor offence. If it was me, you know, or you, no big deal. But you said politicians must be held to a higher standard. No, I said they are held to a higher standard. All right. Well, OK, they are.

right that they are. It's right that they are. Particularly if you're the second most important politician in the country, the Chancellor of the Exchequer. So given that, being held to a higher standard, she should not be allowed to break the damn law. No, I don't agree with that. I think you still... So she's not being held to a higher standard then.

You and I would make not much difference to our lives. What you're saying, because politicians are held to a higher standard, it should make a difference to our life. No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that, in most cases...

This would never even have come to light. I mean, most people, I mean, I presume there are loads of landlords in Dulwich who haven't got a licence because they didn't realise they had to have one. And the world just keeps turning in its axis and, you know, there's no comeback. Whereas Rachel Reeves has people screaming for her resignation. So she's held to a higher standard and quite rightly. But I don't think she should resign because I just don't think it's a serious offence. Well, I mean.

She'll probably get away with it. I mean, you know, you know what it is. I think she already has got away with it. Yes, of course she's got away with it because the Prime Minister, she's got her personal exonerator. People around the country are going, wow, I wish we could have a prime minister to forgive us every time we break the law. Actually, I've just been dumb for driving at 24 miles an hour in a 20 mile an hour limit. Could I get Keir Starmer to write to church?

council and let me off. Well, that wasn't inadvertent, was it? Of course it was inadvertent. When people do 24 miles an hour in a 20 mile an hour limit, that's inadvertent. This wasn't inadvertent. She knew about it. She said she didn't, then she said she did. Well, she said her husband had found an email. But I mean, actually, the point about that email is it does exonerate her because the point is... It doesn't really, not given her changing stories.

The estate agents had undertaken to take care of it. Yeah, well, I wonder what new story she's going to come up with tomorrow. I mean, she keeps changing her story. Therein lies the problem. I suspect on this issue, John, you and I are going to have to... agree to disagree. But it's always a pleasure to talk to you, mate. Thank you very much. The Independence Chief Political Commentator, John Rental, there.

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at american-giant.com with code STAPLE20. Right, this is Glamour magazine. Now, J.K. Rowling, the author. I'm a big fan of her work, by the way. I love J.K. Rowling's body of work, except for all that Harry Potter crap. No, but seriously, this is... She's got away with words, and she's... fought a brilliant campaign about women's rights. Now this is the front page of Glamour magazine. Look at that.

Basically, oh, the dolls, it said. The dolls. By the way, it's not a very glamorous picture. Whoever took that, there's a bunch of sheds and warehouses in the background. But here's these, well, girls standing on the roof. Nine of them. Protect the dolls. These are guys. These are blokes. These are bloke, what are they doing on the front page of the magazine? J.K. Rowling, in her inimitable style, wrote this, tweeted this.

I grew up in an era when mainstream women's magazines told girls they needed to be thinner and prettier. Now mainstream women's magazines tell girls that men are better women than they are well i mean this is ridiculous isn't it right

Yeah, what gets me about all of this is why is it always women who have to pay the price for everything here, right? You don't have trans men on the cover of Men's Health magazine, right? You never hear about drag kings, do you? So what's going on here? Drag kings, I'm not the man.

I'm not the most strident feminist in the world, but if I find this outrageous, what are people like Jess Phillips and all these other people who claim to be feminists doing? They're silent about what's happening in these radical Islam misogyny and sexual aggression. silence about these sorts of issues. It's like, who is there defending women? Yeah, I mean, Glamour magazine, you know, I suppose one shouldn't be sexist, but this is a magazine for women. And there's nine blokes.

Nine guys pretending to be women on the front. And it says, protect the dolls. They're not dolls, they're men. That's what they are, men. Why are they on the front of this magazine? What does Glamour think it's doing? Let Alex Phillips know about this. You'll want to talk about this. I know this. What's that number? 03444991000. I forgot it for a second there.

I don't know why I say it 800 times a minute. 03444991000. Get on the phone and talk to Alex about this. Rafe, now let's move on to Prince Andrew, as we've been saying. Unprecedented. This has never happened to a member of the royal family before. I want to ask you, this has been my theme of the day. Look, the king has done the right thing at last, to be honest with you. He's dithered about this.

He's tried to get away with saying, oh, don't worry, my brother won't call himself the Duke of York anymore. He won't call himself the Earl of Inverness or Baron Killilea anymore. And then we found out, oh, that's good. And we find out...

Oh, he hasn't officially lost those titles. It's just he won't call them. He'll call himself that. Well, he still hasn't lost the title of Duke. Well, that's my point. And also, oh, but we can never... take prince away from him because that's his birthright well now we find out two weeks later that the king says he can take these titles away from him because that's what he's going to do and also he can take away what we were told is Andrew's birthright of being called Prince.

They seem to be making up the rules as they go along. No, I'm going to take issue with you there. The Royal House have never said that they couldn't take away his title of Prince. We've always known that. We were told we need an Act of Parliament. No, so... Well, that's what we were told. No, we weren't.

No, as the editor of Burke's Peerage, World Order of Night, let me give you the authority to have peace here. All right, all right, I give up, I give up. OK. The king can't remove a peerage title of duke. Duke is a peerage title. It's treated as a form of property.

Only Parliament can take property away from you. What the King can always has been able to do, and which he's never denied he could do, is take away Royal Highness and take away the title of Prince. Those simply require the issuance of Lettuce Patent or Royal Warrant. done in 1917, it was done in 1919. So it's been 100 years since it's happened, but he's always had that ability, and that's never been in question or in doubt. Okay, so he's doing that. So do...

Officially, we still do need an Act of Parliament to get rid of Duke, Earl and Baron then. Yes, so for the Duke, Earl of Inverness and then Duke of York, that still requires an Act of Parliament. Parliament has said they don't want to deal with it, it's up to them.

the king to make moves on that in terms of giving Parliament the nod to do it. But the king doesn't want to waste valuable parliamentary time. It'll take ten minutes, Ray. Anyway. Do it. Do it, Charlie. Do it. It's up to Parliament to actually go through with all of that. I suppose I'm probably pushing it now. I mean, his disgrace could not be greater, could it?

And he's agreed he won't use it. So he has become Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, which for somebody who held titles and honours in such high regard would correct people for calling his grandmother the Queen Mother rather than Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. This sort of stuff is going to be a very bitter pill to swallow. I know this story that he walked into some conference when he was still running what was it called? Pitch at the Palace.

business and entrepreneurs business he walked into a room a sort of conference room and there's 20 people sitting around he walked in and they're waiting for him and he walked in and he sort of looked at them he said Well, let's try that again, shall we? And he walked out of the room and came in again and said, I'm a member of the royal family. Please stand.

That's the level of this guy's pomposity. Well, as I've often said, be nice to people on the way up. Because, you know, you need their support on the way down. And I don't think he has much of that. Yeah. But they're now saying...

You know, we've got this Virginia Griffey book, Nobody's Girl, makes very explicit. allegations against this guy and I think that this statement by the royal family by Buckingham Palace issued last night here it is folks where it says these censures are deemed necessary notwithstanding the fact he continues to deny the allegations against him their majesties wish to make it clear that their thoughts and utmost sympathies have been and will remain with the victims and survivors of any

and all forms of abuse. In other words, they are effectively saying there, the king and the queen, What we all think that he's lying when he said he did not sexually abuse this girl on three continents. And that last patch is very interesting because it says their majesty. So it's not even just the king. The queen is also saying that. And it's that sort of act of compassion which was missing.

from that famous Emily Maitlis interview that Prince Andrew gave. They are giving that themselves here, which I think is very important. And I don't think this nightmare is over for him because, as I was just saying... this and our belief that he's lying that if on the basis that he's lying about what he did to Virginia Roberts as she was then that means a crime that he sexually abused her in London an investigation may be on the way then he goes to jail possibly

Well, it's interesting. You've got the Republic organisation that wants to abolish the monarchy talking about a private prosecution. I'm not sure how successful that would be given, obviously, that the victim in this case is no longer with us. When Vivint Smart Security gives you a smarter way to protect, and its smart thermostats give you a smarter way to save, well, that's a smarter way to live. Get the smarter home system that just gets you at Vivint.com.