Greetings and welcome to talk about talk podcast episode number 1 65. The currency of gratitude with Michelle Bailey. My name is doctor Andrea V, and I'm your executive communication coach. Please just call me Andrea. I'm so glad you're here. We're counting down the top 10 most downloaded episodes of the 160 episodes to date. If you're a long time listener, these top 10 episodes can be a great review of some of the most important and impactful learnings we've covered over the last 5 years.
If you are a new talk about talk listener on the other hand. First of all, I wanna say welcome. I also wanna say this is a great way for you to catch up on the 10 episodes. That got the most traction. Over the past few weeks, we've covered controlling your narrative, communication skills for job seekers speaking up in meetings and the power of personal branding. This week, we cover the topic of gratitude. With entrepreneur and Author, Michelle Bailey.
Michelle has become a good friend of mine, and I have to tell you talk about talk listeners love her. I don't know if you can imagine what it's like to be a podcast. You think about a topic, you do some research, Maybe you do an interview, you record it, you produce it, and then you send it out to the world, and it's very quiet, and then you wait. I had a feeling this episode on gratitude was gonna be a good 1, and I was right.
Almost immediately, after releasing this episode to the world, I started getting emails and Dms from people. Some friends, but also some strangers saying that they found this episode to be particularly impactful. Even my podcast producer emailed me to say that she particularly enjoyed listening to this episode. So here we go, let's learn about the currency of gratitude. Enjoy the episode. Let's do this. Let's talk about talk. Welcome to talk about talk podcast episode number 01:55.
The currency of gratitude. In case we haven't met, my name is doctor Andrea V. Please call me Andrea. I'm your executive communication coach. I'm also the founder of talk about talk where I coach ambitious executives. Like you to elevate your communication, your confidence, your clarity, so you can establish credibility, and then make impact and accomplish your career goals.
If you go to the talk about talk dot com website, you'll find many resources there to help you out there's information there about 1 on 1 coaching you can do with me, online courses, some amazing boot camps that I run every few months. Corporate workshops, the archive of this bi weekly podcast, and I really hope you'll sign up for the talk about talk email newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication coaching from me.
Alright. Let's get into this. You're about to hear my interview with Michelle Bailey, on the currency of gratitude. Michelle provides a pretty compelling argument for why we should all be communicating gratitude a lot more often. And this woman walks her talk. She is on a mission to thank everyone around her in a meaningful way, of course, and also to encourage us to do the same. And yes, as I said, she literally wrote the book on gratitude. It's called the currency of gratitude.
And you can find a link to this book in the show notes. Here's how this episode is gonna go. First, I'm gonna briefly introduce Michelle, and then we're gonna get right into the interview, And then at the end, I'm gonna summarize with 3, yes, of course, always, the power of 3. 3 main thoughts or themes that I want you to remember, things that I wanna reinforce. Alright. Let me introduce Michelle. Michelle Bailey is the founder of the Bla group, a brand and culture agency that leverages
her. Strategy first approach to business, her flair for sharing stories and her desire to enhance employee wellness, while pursuing business goals. Her advertising agency called blazing is turning branding inside out with my big idea. Yes. She trademarked that phrase. My big idea, which is an employee mentoring and wellness program designed to propel personal and professional success.
In short, Michelle and her team have found the formula for creating awesome business cultures that drive exceptional marketing. Countless companies have discovered greater team cohesion and boosted their bottom line results as a result of Michelle's proprietary process. Today though, she pushes her clients and others to take it 1 step further. To make true gratitude integral to the way they do business. As I said, Michelle literally wrote the book on gratitude.
It's called the currency of gratitude. It's published by Forbes books, and it's a great read. You can find a link to the book at the bottom of the show notes under the episode description. Alright. Let's hear from Michelle. Thank you so much, Michelle for being here today to talk with us about the power of gratitude. Andrea, I'm so grateful and appreciative to be with you today. That is a great answer. That is a great answer.
So my first question for you is, can you list for us what some of the benefits? Of gratitude are either that you've experienced or witnessed or maybe that you've read about. First of all, it's an endo release. It's a positive release of endo that happened within your brain in your body.
In Andrea, the power of starting off let's say your day with gratitude automatically brings joy, calm, and you will find yourself smiling without even being conscious of it because you are giving a positive affirmation, acknowledgment or appreciation to someone else. It lifts you up without you realizing that you're being lifted it. It's automatic, and I see open and over. Think of when someone gives you a really heartfelt. Thank you. Looking at you and just saying thank you.
You smile. They smile. Right. Right. So as you were answering that, something occurred to me, I remember years ago, reading some research that said, if daily, you write down 1 to 3 things that you're grateful for, research shows that your life satisfaction will improve significantly. And I started doing this and I told a friend about it, and she said, Andrea, if you have to write it down, you've got a them. And so, I mean, that's a separate conversation. I I told her I'd
respectfully disagree with you. I think writing it down actually brought me Joy. But but the reason I brought this up is In that research, they were talking about things that you were grateful for. And what I hear from you is expressing gratitude to people. Right? Andrea, I talk... Do talk about writing down the 3 things you're grateful before I day. And I don't wanna take anything away from
that. But if that brings you a lot of joy, can you imagine what happens when you take that and you send it out to someone else? Mh. It mag it 3 threefold, 5 volt tenfold fold. So I love that practice, but I'm on a mission to teach people how easy it is to push gratitude outside of yourself, so it has a multiplier effect that's not just about you. I love that answer. I think it's absolutely true as you were saying it. I was thinking, If you express gratitude to 1 person, it's
not that you're just doubling it. Right? You are... There's a multiplier effect. Yeah. Absolutely. Because then you've set them up for their day and they in turn, do positive things for other people. It's just like a kind of pay it forward kind of feeling and message. Right. So in a professional context, I've, of course, all of this applies personally as well, but we're we're targeting and speaking with ambitious executives here for the talk about Talk
podcast. So let's keep it keep it focused on a professional context. What are some specific ways that you express gratitude or that you encourage your clients to do the same? Well, I actually have a methodology of 7 questions that you answer. It can answer these 7 questions, openly and honestly watch the transformation that happens in your relationships both professionally and personally. The questions are, 1 word that describes you.
Mh. And you're talking to someone else, by the way, Andrea as you're writing this down. Okay. 1 word described you, You came into my life, you bring me joy by. You've inspire me because I hope to add to our journey together. And I wanna thank you for. Simple sentences that you answer and watch the transformation that happens on someone's space when you were clearly identifying how they have helped you and why you in turn our acknowledging or appreciating them magical.
Yeah. That is a magical framework. Can you maybe give us a couple of examples. Typical examples of when people using that framework. So you could say you're thinking a client or you're thinking an employee, how might it sound? With a client. Okay. I'll talk about a gentleman who owns a construction company and they're telling gentleman. I wanna put this in prospect perspective that he's in a 6 dc he's hard on everybody. And when I wrote him a gratitude card answering those questions.
Because he taught me a lot by being so hard and so tough. So I wrote that a note to him. And his wife came up to me at a recent event and said, you know that note wrote to my husband, He has it framed in a shadow bath box in his office, and he tells people this reminds me of the difference I made in some young entrepreneurs life. Wow. Wow is right. And this week, I was away with a few friends that I had seen in while in Florida. And 1 of the women said to me
you. Remember when you had us over for dinner dinner, and you gave us each a gift of gratitude. That's Call these cards. A gift of gratitude, I have to tell you, I still have that card if I look at it when I'm having a down to remind myself that there are people out there who care And this is how you technology. So the cards when I when I read your book, I was... I I would love actually at some point. Maybe you can send me
a photo of your box full. I'm I'm guessing you might have many boxes full of thank you cards or gratitude cards. Other than handwriting someone a card, do you have a list of how we can express this? I mean, obviously, you could do it verbally. You could look someone in the eye and thank them. And, actually, I'll use just this past week. I... Apparently Friday was employee appreciation day. Okay. And I am a small business owner, and I have people who've worked with me some
upwards to 25 years. Wow. I was way and realized that I missed employee appreciation day. So I got on my email Sunday night and schedule it so they get in their inbox Monday morning. And I were to the people in my team as a team, and I reminded them that though I don't least tell them in life gets busy. I wanna acknowledge and appreciate every 1 of you for showing up doing the work, creating a great culture and making sure that I look like
superstar each and every day. I'm here to appreciate you. Very unusual for me to send it by email. I wasn't around, and you know what? Each employee, I think except 1 wish back out to me. So, you know what? My preference, and I'll tell you why my is a handwritten note. Even though I do it in person, I do it through email, I do it through calls. I was talking to an executive that I work very close sleep with. Because she's a client and she's
a friend. And she was telling me, you know, Michelle I love your message of gratitude. I'm reaching out to my team and I'm calling them up and I'm telling how much I appreciate them. And I said great. So you you wrote them an. She goes, yes. I said, You want write a card to your senior leader. She goes, I didn't have the time.
I said, can I share with you that you are speaking to me on zoom or Webex, whatever it is and that you are in your home office and then back in your book case I can see 5 cards that are on display, and 3 of them Are from me? Oh, nice. And she just looked to me. She
goes, point taken. Yeah. Okay. So we can express our gratitude through handwritten cards or notes, face to face on the phone or through email, I was just thinking about something that hadn't occurred to me when I was reading your book, which is expressing gratitude is 1 very valuable catalysts that we have to reconnect with people. So the reason I'm bringing this up is I do workshops and coaching on strategic networking.
Right? And some people, a lot of people actually tell me that there are people in their network that they that they really miss actually, that they appreciate con with and connecting with, but it's been so long that they feel awkward. And I always tell them, well, chances are the other person feels the same and when you reach out, they'll say, oh, thank goodness they reached out. Right? So I I have different way of getting getting, answering that quan, I suppose.
But another way of answering that quan is to say, why don't you reach out to them and thank them? Right? It's almost like this is a catalyst for connecting with people too. It absolutely is a con a catalyst. And you you know, Andrea, I have used people haven't seen it a long time. I do put in the subject line. Thank you, or I might put with gratitude or you made a mark in my life, and it's time that we reconnect. Yeah. Keep love it. Yes. Yeah. They love it.
Well, Otherwise, everything that's in our inbox is someone trying to sell us something or use us for something. Right? So what an email that's expressing gratitude. So here we have established that gratitude is a catalyst. And in your book, which I'm holding up here. The currency of gratitude love this bright red cover. We were talking about this before I hit record. I absolutely love the cover of, Michelle's book, which her agency designed, by the way. Gratitude is also a currency.
Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Right. I will and actually use what we know is currency, I will use money. When you have... Let's just say 10000 dollars and you stuff it under your mattress for Rainy day, 10 years later, that money has become maybe it's 8000 dollars or 7000 doors. You haven't used it. You haven't put it in circulation.
So it is with gratitude. It's a currency If you put it out and you spend it and you give it, it comes back to you with a mega return, Might be 10:20 percent who knows about the measurement, it's just about making sure that you are putting it out wherever you feel you should because it does come back to you in the most unexpected ways. And I see it over over again before I knew that gratitude was part of my personal brand. I didn't know it was.
Andrea someone had to tell me who knew me well, that gratitude was part of my brand. Oh, wow. Now you're speaking my language, Michelle. So speaking of speaking my language. I loved the section in your book about about brand and ambassadors and client referrals.
So I don't I don't know if we ever talked about this, but my dis research when I earned my doctorate was focused on word mouth, and why people make recommendations or referrals or why they don't, Why they why they keep quiet and whether they're talking about positive things or negative things. So in this context, you're talking about client referrals, So it's obviously a positive recommendation.
And so how to brand ambassadors? Can you can you elaborate on how I can become an ambassador for the ambassador who referred me. Right? So it's a little bit meta. Okay. So, actually, instead of giving you probably the answer you expect, I'm going to give you the answer that you're not expecting. A few weeks ago, someone that we both admire in respect and have done work with. Okay. Right at email. Suggested that she knew you, and she knew me and there was a lot of synergies.
So she became a personal brand ambassador, not only for you, Andrea, she became 1 for me. And she decided that we needed to get together because we have a lot in common and it would be better if we met and talked about things together. She has nothing to gain. From putting us together. Right. She did this because she thought we would be a benefit to each other. And I'm not talking about in the monetary sense or the business. Sense.
I'm talking about the personal sense. So that she became a a personal brand ambassador for both of us and put us together. And when I think about brand ambassadors, I think about my own firm blazing. I have created such great brand ambassadors who work here. Remember the average tenure is close to 14 years. Of that I rarely gone out to hire people. It's my people who talk about blazing to other people who then come to me and get a job. Well most of the people that I've hired here
are through my brand ambassadors. In fact, a lot of the people that I've hired without coming through my brand ambassadors haven't worked out in the long run. That is fascinating. You're making me think about a bunch of things. Right? So 1 thing is just the reason, the the not surprising research that shows that when 1 of us makes a recommendation to another for a product or a service. Say, I I recommend a restaurant to you.
I am really hoping that you go to that restaurant first of all, because that says something about you trusting and believing me that I made a credible recommendation. And then I hope that the restaurant knocks it out of the park, because it's almost like it has a halo effect on me. So that... That's related to what we're talking about here a little bit. Right? And the other thing that I was thinking is me, myself as a coach and a small business owner.
When I read this chapter in your book, about brand ambassadors, I was thinking about some of the clients that I have that I've coached maybe in the last 5 years who are constantly referring new clients to me. Right? And I realize I I always thank them, but I need to really express my gratitude. For that for them being a brand ambassador. So I I think that's, you know, an amazing key learning for all of us.
And you don't have to be a small business owner to appreciate this point about referrals and and, brand ambassadors do you? Now. It's for every person everywhere whether it's personally or professionally. You know, I keep referring people to particular investment adviser, I know. Because people come to and say, Michelle, you know who I should be talk you to? Who do I talk to? And I I refer them without thinking based on their, but I their investment style would be I
refer to different people. There is a 1 investment adviser. I can't tell you how many times beautiful flowers have shown up. Or a gift card to a spa, and I I don't do it for that. I do it because I know you will take care of this person that I referred you. Right? But it's how this 1 particular adviser, always make sure she recognizes an acknowledges and appreciates me with something... She thinks I would really enjoy. Like a gift certificate to twist? She's nailed it. Yeah. She know. Okay. Good
to know. Good to know, Michelle. Your currency is spa certificates. Got it. There was something in the back of my mind as I was reading your book that you then addressed explicitly. So I... I'm wondering if some of the listeners might be thinking about this as well. Can you talk about your point that some people may believe that expressing gratitude somehow makes you weak or appear weak. What do you have to say to that? This is where there's a bit of confusion
around gratitude. Yeah. Gratitude is a soft skill, and it's a skill that like compassion and empathy maybe in short supply, especially the last few years. So I would challenge people when they say I mean michelle gratitude, you know, it's it's kinda not what I do. I say it's a soft skill, but it's a human capital skill. And you better recognize it as a human capital skill. Because this is what builds loyalty to you as a leader, loyal to you as a person
and makes... People feel comfortable to be vulnerable, transparent and really direct with you. It is a human skill that I feel we should be teaching school. Because gratitude is so simple to execute, and again, looking at someone in the face shaking their hand, clasp their enhancing, I appreciate you, and I just need you to really understand and know it. So take it out of soft skills and make it a human capital skill. I love that. You're you're making me think
about... You know, as as a parent or in elementary schools or or even earlier, we adults teach our kids, the pee and, cues. Make sure you say please and thank you. And I remind my my teenagers now when they go over to someone's host, make sure you say thank you to the parents when you leave. Right? But this is about going beyond just the simple, please and thank you. Right? It's about, as you say, expressing gratitude, and it's in a very sincere, I guess, customized and personalized way, a
meaningful way. And we always see gratitude differently for a lot of men in my life as long as I like, I like to sit down and look at people write the eyes and say, I really appreciate when you did this for me or when you're doing this. I want you to know it's not gone unnoticed, and I just want you to know that from the very bottom of my heart, I appreciate that all you've done for me. Because some people... You don't want to write a note too or don't feel compelled to write
a note too. And don't wanna write an email. So have the conversation. Mh. Mh. Well, I think that's a great point. You're not just customizing the words, but even the medium through which you're you're communicating or expressing the gratitude. That's a great point. So back to the p's and qs and our manners, the other thing that we are taught is the significance or or importance, I guess, of reciprocity.
So how does reciprocity? So you said that you referred people to this Wealth planner, who then reciprocate or said thank you with Sp, gift certificates and and bo flowers. So is this just like a cycle that keeps going and going? So how how... How does reciprocity fit in here? You know, I I'll use... Actually take that example. Whenever I get something back from this particular adviser, it surprises me because I don't
expect it. Mh. Because for me, gratitude is about if you're in the gratitude game so that you can give to get get out of the game. Gratitude is about giving because you want to give, and you shouldn't expect anything in return. And if something does come, wow, that's an unexpected gift. But reciprocity in the gratitude gain doesn't work. You will be disappointed. Yeah. Yeah. And you can smell it a mile away when someone does it to you anticipating.
So very recently, 1 of my newsletters was focused on this very topic, Michelle, it was about the dangers of assuming reciprocity and how it can backfire and instead, leaning into generosity. Like I guess generosity and gratitude are similar in many ways. Right? They absolutely are because again, just like it's about giving more than as expected. Giving more. And, yeah, the the reciprocity game. Boy if I was waiting for people to pay back. Yeah. To me all that I've
done for them. Yeah. I'd be very long on the tooth before they ever came met. You know, when I was reading your book, Michelle, I was I did keep, in fact, I wrote it on the inside. I I have all sorts of notes that I wrote. You know I like a book when I'm writing all over it. I hope you're not offended. But I I actually have a list of people that I subsequently have sent very explicit, thank yous to. And So that's kind of what was top of
mind as I was going through it. But there's a scenario that I wanna share with you that is very consistent with many of the themes that we're talking about here. At the end of the year, last year, at the end of the calendar year, I identified 2 people in my network that had been incredibly generous brand ambassadors for me, and they've referred a lot of business to me. And to each of them, I sent them to my favorite photographer. So I was a brand ambassador for her. Right? This is getting meta.
I sent them both with, like, all expenses, including the makeup and the hair. You just show up with your outfits. She'll make you gorgeous and she's gonna hundred pictures of you, So I sent them both to that for that experience. So it was it was me explicitly thanking them, which I did in the note. And then I said, here's here's my gift for you. So it was... And it was something customized that I know both of them. Love, they've they've subsequently had the photo sessions
and they love them. But I'm also being an ambassador at the same time for this woman who's an amazing photographer. Right? So this kind of, a bunch of themes that we've mentioned here. Yeah. You know, which is great. See. I love that. That's the, again, an unexpected gift, acknowledging the difference someone has made in your life. And I also wanna talk about gratitude as giving people the gift of
your time. Because we are all time pressed, and when you give people the gift of your time, and you are really doing active listening and asking them questions that are relevant to them and not just surface questions. That to me is also a form of gratitude because we are all time start. And when you put aside and make time for people, and show and just listen. To listening. Mh. That is also a way to show appreciation to someone. And so many people are struggling to be heard today I
very well put. You will be quoted on that, Michelle. Very well put. So now speaking of time, beautiful segue, you made a comment in the book. I think he referenced it a couple times about work life balance. And I know from our previous discussions that you absolutely love your job. Right? So maybe for you, it's a little bit different than it is for man, I do too. In case it's not obvious. I love what I do.
So... And maybe for that reason, it's it's even more easy for work to feel all consuming and to take over more and more of of our personal life, But you you have a different take on that? And, I found it to be very pro provocative. Can you elaborate on your advice for people in terms of managing quote unquote, work life balance.
You know what there is, and I... You know, I've been asked many, many times as a small business owner to talk about work life balance And I just say to people, there's no work life balance that will never be balanced. There's a land. There's an integration. Decide and put aside time to refuel you first and making sure, like, For me I think we've spoken about this, I like to take a walk when the sun is just coming up with my 2 dogs in the woods
because that grounds me. It grounds me and gives me the balance or blend I need to get through the day. And I'd like to close my day, again, with those same dogs when the sun is starting to set if I'm home, to be able to take them for a walk again to ground myself. And you don't make time for the people that matter to you, especially people who really need a connection or energy from you, but make it at a time where it
also works for you. I used to always give away my time whenever someone needed it. Now I'm a little bit actually probably a lot more conscious. Mh, when I'm going to give away my time and energy. Because not that it's a reciprocity citi game, but it's about making sure that you're remaining true and hold to yourself and making sure that you need the fuel you need to get through the day, the week the month and making sure that you got what it takes, so you can invent
turn around, and help other people. Yeah. It's always... It's always... It's never equal. It's up and down. Like, I know this week. I'm going to have a lot more professional time given away than personal time. And that's this week. Next week, maybe it might be slightly different. Again, it's a good thing that you enjoy your job. But that... I like that work life blend instead of balance. I agree. Saying that you're gonna balance. It's... Show me someone who's got a balance life.
There's not many of them. Yeah. Yeah. I agree... Well, it's about identifying priorities. Right? And and making rules for yourself. It sounds like you're doing that. And you're also... The other interesting thing thing about your response there was you're not just thinking about this week. You're thinking about next week. Like, it's okay that I... And you were on vacation
last week. Right? And now you're... Doubling down on professional, and making sure you're doing facetime with your professional network, and then the next week, it'll be maybe a little bit more of filling up your own personal cup. Absolutely. Yeah. And I always plan things out preferably a year at a time. So I know when I'm gonna have refuel time with my girlfriends. When I'm going to have refuel time with
my family. Like, I plan it out, so I also have carrots to look forward to because when you're working really, really hard in putting in the hours you need to know that there's some light at the end of the time. Yeah. Yeah. Years ago, when I'm... When I a doctor actual student, actually, I read a paper, which... Again, said something that you probably would... We all probably would guess, but I found find insight to be really powerful.
Vacations are for most people contained in the time when you have are taking vacation days. But if you can think about your vacation as 3 steps, the planning, the experiencing and the recalling or the remembering, and then and leveraging all 3 of those, I think that helps maybe with this work life blend. Right? And I agree. I'm going to costa rica rica next week. So I'm working like crazy, and I'm... Happy to do so. Yeah. That's a great insight. A great insight. I have friends who actually
plant 18 months out. Yeah. That work as hard as a lot of us do. Mh. They just say I need to know those 18 months out because it keeps me going. Yeah. You know what? I think that's gonna become an objective of minor priority of mine is thinking about that. It's tough given my life stage and how much of it is dictated by my kids right now. And what they're doing. But I think that's a great goal for all of us to plan the celebrations and the vacations and revel in the anticipation of them.
I love that. I love that. Thank you for that, Michelle. You're welcome. Is there anything else before we move on to the 3 rapid fire questions that you wanna add about gratitude and the currency of gratitude? There is. Before we go to the 3 questions, we talked originally, I talked about what was my communication pet peeve. My communication pet peeve currently is the professional ghost that's happening amongst leaders. Mh. Professional ghost.
Okay. What is professional ghost? You're probably asking me. So let's take the fact that a lot of the business that I have that you have is referral based. Yep. When you referred to someone and you meet them whether it's on Zoom or in person. You've have great conversations. So they've reached out to you. You've had great conversations. They've asked for information. And they've asked for materials and
they've asked for follow up. So you spend this time preparing and putting work into preparing, reiterating what you've chatted about what their needs are and how you might help. Then you follow once, you follow up twice. Yeah. You follow up 3 times. And no answer back. Yeah. So I'm was speaking to all of us as professionals. This is not someone solicit me on my email. Or Linkedin that I've never heard of
trying to sell something. This is a professional discussion amongst 2 people, most of whom have been referred If you don't have the budget the time, do the courtesy of letting this person know. Time is a very valuable currency, we can never get it back. So this professional ghost, which I've really seen grown in the last several years it's not good. It's not good for all
of us as professionals. Mh. Especially if you've reached out to someone or there's a strong connection, or a personal ambassador. So I just kinda wanna say that because it is a pet peeve of mine with this communication. Yeah. And we need to stop that because we're all people for all working hard, and we all need some form of respect or acknowledgement. Even it's not a good time anymore. Yeah. It I mean, I agree. It's it's beyond bad manners. You you have... Taken someone's time.
And more than just the the phone call in the meeting. Right? As you say, pulling together, a proposal or or whatever it was that you pulled together for them, even just a response in email, and then to ghost them. So a I have a theory. I hadn't thought about this explicitly before, but this is Ron Tights think do say. There is a chapter in this book about the people that he calls the pitch slap, which are the folks that you referenced, Michelle who Friend you on Linkedin,
he's he talks about Linkedin. He's very active on Linkedin. And then immediately, and sometimes he said you can see it in their in their headline. They're gonna... You know they're gonna come back to you with a sales pitch. You've you've never met them before. They they basically cold call connected with you and you graciously accepted the connection. And then they're... And then they send you a message and they start selling. So I I tell my clients this when we're talking about Linkedin.
If you did not initiate a discussion or if there was no previous discussion, you are under absolutely no obligation to respond. In other words, you can ghost someone. Absolutely who is in raw tights vernacular, pitch slapping you. There's no need to. It's not bad manners. What's bad manners is them pitching to you without even knowing you. Right?
I wonder if this pitch slapping Michelle has become so common that people are now starting to think it's okay to ghost anyone who's sending them any kind of proposal including a proposal that they asked for. So while I agree with you a hundred percent, that is not cool. Like, if someone asked me for proposal, and it happens to me too. It doesn't happen very often. And the other thing I want to say is the people who have ghost me when I've sent them proposals I always think later, I
go, yeah. I should've have seen that coming. That person, there's... They're always a little bit. They're, like, they're a little selfish or a little insecure or there's something, like, they they weren't really all in. Right? But that's what my main main point. My main point is I wonder if the pitch slapping has become so common that we are forced to... Like, I ghost people every day who ask me to be a guest on this podcast.
Who asked me to, you know, whatever, give them a referral or coach them for free or whatever they're asking me for. I... Or that they wanna sell me something to help me run my business. I didn't ask for any of that. I ghost them. But if I wasn't a conversation with someone, for sure, I would respond to them. Right? If they if they sent me a proposal, but I wonder if it's becoming so common, You know what, I think you're giving people an out. Well, I'm not saying it's okay. I'm saying
that explains it. It's plans it, but it's... What's interesting for me is a lot of these people who are pitch slapping me, like, not getting bad. When they're out of a job, I'm 1 of the first 10 people they turned to to ask. Can we just have a coffee? Mh. I'd like to pick your brain, who in your network could help me? And I've never had the courage to say to them. You never want to help me, but now you're looking, because I have a vast network to help
you. Right. I've never had courage to identify this because empathy and having grace our part of my brand as well. Mh. But I have to say this is 1 of communication pet peeve that I'm seeing not only with myself, but a lot of other professionals and we're wondering how can we change their narrative on this for all of us. Right. With the people that are helping me run my business, I talk about closing the loop. Right? And I think that this is this is an example where
saying to someone. And maybe even in the follow up email saying, can we close the loop on this? I just wanna know if you're interested or not Right? Like, and and we should be doing that for each other. Whenever someone gives us a proposal, we close that we either, yes, except the proposal or I'm sorry, I don't have the time or the money or whatever it is, but you close the loop. I love that. Yeah. I'm going be using
that with a few people. Or that had really... I mean, some people have asked me to do proposals 4 times. What? Oh, okay. Well, they're just using you. Yeah. I know that's common. That's common in agency land. Right? The proposal is actually the work. Yeah. Oh, that's not cool. That is not cool. Right. Alright. So, Michelle, the 3 rapid fire questions, the first 1... Well, we'll say the first 1 is your communication pet peeve is people who don't close the loop or people who ghost to you.
Yes. Yeah. It's rude. It is rude. It's rude. And we as leaders need to change that. Yeah. Call it out. Yeah. Okay. Question number 2. Are you an introvert or an ex revert? I think you're gonna be surprised for me to tell you that I'm an introvert who presents as an ex. And people look at me, like, they'll put their mouth and like, no way. Yes way. I need a lot of sol suit and
quiet. Yeah. And the ability to write and think for me to go out, especially when I'm facilitating, we're speaking to large groups of people and to give the energy that I feel people need. If you're gonna give me 45 minutes of your time, you better walk away with some great takeaways. Yeah. I really go deep talent inside and deep to do that. I'm an introvert. I would have guessed you're an introvert. You know why?
2 reasons. 1, you said that you collect yourself in the morning and sometimes in the evening by going a walk for a walk alone with your dogs. That's 1 thing you said. And the other thing is I can tell, you didn't label yourself as this I'm labeling you as a fantastic listener. And introverts are the best listeners? Yes. And so this is a this is about
where you get your energy. Right? You get energy from the walks with your dogs, the sol suit in the in the forest with them, and you are a fantastic listener, your being an astro or an introvert though is different from your social anxiety. Like, I can see you enjoy being around people. Like, right? So but your your cup gets filled, your energy gets refuel when you're alone. So... I I look this label of, like, high functioning introvert or I'm I'm an introvert who acts like an
ex. No. You're an introvert. And you're socially very comfortable. Thank you. That's how I'm gonna grab my myself now. Good. Okay. Okay. The last rapid fire question is, is there a podcast that you find yourself recommending lately? Besides yours? Nice. Nice Michelle. Wait for it. Wait for it. Wait talking about talk. Yeah. Tim ferris. They're long, but they're good. When I want some comedy smart.
Yep. Happier how to bring more joy into your life on purpose, and Hoover middle lab and voices of leadership. These are good ones depending on what I wanna listen to or what I wanna learn. These are my go to's. I've listened to all of those except... Is it voices? The last 1 you mentioned voices? Voices of leadership? Those are fan fantastic recommendations are gonna put links to all of them in the show notes. Any last words for the listeners about the power of gratitude, Michelle.
Yes. In under 5 minutes, 5 minutes, you can change a relationship. With someone in your professional or personal life. Mh. It takes less than 5 minutes. Don't overthink it. Just do it just write it, just call them, just email under 5 minutes and watch what happens. Amazing. Thank you so much, Michelle. I am very grateful for this time for the time and and the incredible insights that you shared with me and the listeners. Thank you.
Thank you. Isn't Michelle great? Thanks again, Michelle for your time and and for sharing your insights about gratitude with me and with the talk about talk listeners. And now as promised I wanna point out 3 things that I hope you'll remember 3 things that I wanna reinforce from this conversation with Michelle about gratitude. The first point is about the benefits of gratitude. At the beginning of the interview, she mentioned the endo release that we experience when we express gratitude.
And then when we express gratitude to others, they in turn also benefit from endo release. It's contagious and that in itself is a big benefit. The second benefit of expressing gratitude is that it builds loyalty. Think of the stories Michelle shared about client referrals, brand ambassadors, and tokens of gratitude. This all builds loyalty. The third benefit of gratitude that we discussed is that gratitude can be a catalyst for connecting with others. So think about that person that you regret
not staying connected with. Chances are, you're grateful to them for some reason. Reaching out with a simple thank you can be a catalyst to reconnect with that person. You're welcome. So the 3 benefits of gratitude are endo, loyalty, and the fact that gratitude can serve as a catalyst. For reconnecting with someone in your network. The second point I wanna reinforce is Michelle's point about the significance of brand ambassadors when it comes to gratitude.
Think about the individuals in your network. Maybe they've provided you with client referrals or they may have mentored you or perhaps they've acted as a sponsor to help you accelerate your career trajectory. These are your personal brand ambassadors. As you're strategically thinking about your career. If you haven't done so already Make a list of who your important brand ambassadors are and make sure they know how grateful you are. The third and last point I wanna reinforce
is a call to action. Yeah. This is your homework. I challenge you to leverage the currency of gratitude. By explicitly directly thanking 3 people. It might be a client, a coworker, a mentor, You probably know who these people are. Choose 3. They're your brand ambassadors. Then, customize a thank you for each of them. Customize the medium, through which you communicate this. It could be through email or over the phone. It could be face to face. Maybe take them out for lunch, or you
could do, like Michelle does. And write them a formal thank card. If you're not sure what to say to these people, here's a list of 7 prompts from Michelle's book. I took them from her book that she also mentions in the interview. 1, 1 word that describes you is 2, You came into my life when, 3, you bring me joy by, 4, you contribute to my life by 5, you are special to me because 6, you have helped me by and 7, the obvious 1. I wanna thank you for.
You can choose from any of these 7 prompts, or you can customize 1 for yourself that's appropriate. And, of course, you can find these prompts, In Michelle's book, the currency of gratitude and also in the transcript in the show notes for this episode. Okay. That's it for this episode. I wanna say thank you again to Michelle. Michelle, I am very grateful that you've shared your time, Andrew. Insights with me and to talk about talk listeners. Truly, I'm feeling inspired. So thank you, Michelle.
If you enjoyed this podcast at episode, I hope you'll share it with your friends and generously leave me a review on whatever podcast app you're using. It really makes a difference and I appreciate it. But If you wanna connect, I would love to hear from you. You can connect with me on Linkedin and message me there or you can go to the talk about talk dot com website and send me a message there. Thanks again for listening. I am grateful. Talk soon.