This is Tales From the Pros, where business leaders and influencers share their stories of inspiration, struggles, and successes. And I'm your host, Michael Georgiou.
Hey, everyone. Welcome to Tales From the Pros, and this is your host, Michael Georgiou and cofounder of Imagine Ovation. My wonderful guest with me here today is the founder and CEO of Seiler Tucker Incorporated. She owns many other businesses in several different industries. She has a 20 year vet she's also a 20 year veteran in the mergers and acquisitions industry, and she is regarded as the leading authority on buying, selling, remarkable track record of success.
And in addition to being featured in Inc, Forbes, Entrepreneur Magazine, and USA Magazine, she is an international keynote speaker and makes regular radio and TV appearances on Fox Business News and CNBC. She has also spoken alongside many prominent speakers such as Eric Trump, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Kathy Ireland, Randy Zuckerberg, Steve Wozniak, and many, many more. And she is the best selling author of the book, Sell Your Business For More Than It's Worth, and has a new book coming out called Exit Rich. Please welcome the wonderful Michelle Siler Tucker. Michelle, thanks for being here today.
I really, really appreciate it.
Thanks, Michael. Thank you so much for having me on.
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, I know we were talking earlier. Sometimes these tech issues with some of these platforms are crazy, and sometimes you love them and hate them. You know? But Yeah. What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?
Well, I think what's happening to these these these plat tech platforms is that they're being inundated with users. You know? Zoom has blown up. I've been using Zoom for years way before the pandemic, but all of these platforms are now really blowing up, and some of them can't handle the traffic. You know?
Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. I can't you know, especially last year in COVID, all these platforms were going they're just going bonkers. So Yeah. Yeah. Lots of issues, but it's okay. Just gotta keep moving forward. Right? So
Right.
But, yeah, I guess, you know, we'll get into it. So, Michelle, I I I have, definitely heard of of your of your, you know, your your firm, your agency, and, I remember I've I've heard about it somewhere maybe on social media or, you know, a a few different publications. But, you know, this podcast is a business storytelling podcast. So, really, I want everyone to understand who you are and where you came from and how you really got to where you are today. You know, all of us have a story.
We've all been through our challenges, successes, and, you know, we've had so many obstacles. So if we can kind of tell me, how did this all kinda start for you, you know, being where you are today at at Tyler Tucker?
Sure. So I knew you know, it's it's hard to say exactly how did this start. I mean, I didn't really wake up and say, oh, I'm a sell companies. But I always knew from a young a young girl that I wanted to own my own businesses. I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
And the main reason for that is because I just like to do things my way and I don't really like to be told what to do. And so I've always, I always knew that I was gonna be an entrepreneur. I have all many different businesses in many different verticals. Even as a little girl, I wanna play with toys or dolls or anything like that. I was always walking around with a notebook, and I walk up to strangers and ask them, you know, who are you?
What do you do? How do you do it? How'd you get started? So I've always been extremely curious, and I've always been, you know, very curious and passionate about entrepreneurship, and I still am to this day. You know, I've always been like a kid in a candy store.
I can't wait to find out how someone started a multibillion dollar $1,000,000, a $1,000,000,000 company from their pickup truck or from their dining room table. You know? And I've got clients that have an 8th grade education. So it's not always about the the education that makes someone successful. And I love the stories as well.
But so for me, like I said, I was always an entrepreneur. I've always, had small businesses. I didn't really grow up with a family of entrepreneurs. My dad had a few companies and he would take me to work with him, you know, every now and then. I wasn't really close to my father, though, so I can't really say he was my inspiration or my role model for multitude of reasons.
And then I kinda got stuck in corporate America where I did get a job, with Xerox. Xerox actually recruited me and made me an offer I couldn't refuse. And with 6 months, they they actually promoted me to regional vice president overseeing a 100 salespeople.
Wow.
And I realized very quickly that I don't want that job, and I don't like management leadership in corporate America because you can't get anything done. I'm a problem solver. I'm solution oriented. I like things to happen. I like them to happen now.
Patience is probably not my biggest virtue. So I was actually, I decided to leave Xerox and start a franchise corporation where I differentiate sales development and consulting and had a equity partnership with different franchisors. And I had so many buyers asking me for existing businesses because they did not wanna buy a franchise, so I had businesses coming to me wanting to roll up other small businesses. And I kept saying no because we only worked with franchisees and their startups. And then I finally said, why am I saying no?
You know, I should be saying yes, yes, yes. I believe in law of attraction. And that's really how I started my m and a firm over 20 years ago.
Wow. That's that's pretty amazing how you've been building this this your your company for over 20 years because I know, you know, just from doing research on you and some of the the previous talks that you've that you've, you know, you've had that you've made, It's very difficult now to continue to grow a business or stay in business after 10 years, right, according to some of the new research.
It absolutely is.
Isn't that crazy? And then and then, you know, I've known this from, like, you know, anywhere from 1 to 3 or 1 to 5 years. It has, like, a 90 to 95% failure rate. So I'm sure you just deal you have so much of that data, especially dealing with so many businesses and companies and and starting scale starting, you know, scaling and selling them. You know, I can't imagine all of the insight that you that you have about just what it takes to really to start and grow a business because it's it's not easy.
It's difficult. Right?
It it is difficult. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it. And so many businesses do fail. You know? But the statistics that you mentioned have have changed slightly.
It used to be when I wrote my very first book that you mentioned earlier, sell your business for more than it's worth. I did the research back then and learned that 90% of all startups would fail. Well, you you know that. You just said that. But then when I did the research for my latest book, Exit Rich, I did the exact same research and was fiber gassed to learn that the business landscape has actually flip flopped.
It's not startups that are a great risk anymore. It's existing business owners. So now only 30% of start ups will go out of business. Only 30 percent switched.
It switched.
It has completely switched.
Crazy.
So out of 27,600,000 companies and and people kinda realize that small business is the backbone of the United States economy.
Right.
You know, employing over half the US workforce. If we lose small business, we lose jobs. You lose jobs. You lose spending power. There's a trickle down effect. You lose more small businesses. So out of 27,600,000 companies, those businesses have been in business 10 years or longer, 70% of them will go out of business. It has completely switched. And you hear about the big public companies in the media all the time, like Toys R Us in Business 75 years goes out of business. Mhmm.
Kmart, Stein Mart. You know? Good to have a chocolate's closing down 1500 locations. GNC, 900 locations. Disney Store said they're closing all their stores.
So it's very concerning, but the media doesn't talk about the private companies because they just care about the public companies. And so they're not talking about the private businesses on every street corner and every town and every state across a great nation. These business owners are acting poor. They're selling for pennies on a dollar, closing their business, or even worse, following bankruptcy. So that's, you know, what why I wrote exit rich, and exit rich is really not just about selling your business because 80% of businesses will never sell.
So it's not about just selling a business because you have a 80% chance that you will never sell your company. It's about actually building a sustainable business that you can scale. And when you're ready, you'll actually have a sellable asset that buyers will want to buy and pay top dollar for.
And, you know, in your experience, Michelle, what does it really take to now build and scale in at least in in your perspective, a a successful business? What does it really take right now? Are there some foundational elements that are involved or everything's you know, every business is different, course. But
Well, every business is different. Every industry is different, but the foundation is the same. And it's the infrastructure. I I find that what most business owners do is they focus on, here's my product. Here's my target market.
Sell, sell, sell, sell. But then they don't build a solid infrastructure in which to handle the sales and build that business so it's sustainable. So, you know, the steps that they can put in place, what what I say is follow the s t six p's. And the 6 p's are the infrastructure. Number 1, we start with people.
So many business owners and entrepreneurs have built a glorified business that they go to work at every day versus a job versus a business that actually works for them. And like Steve Forbes says, 80% business will never sell. The number one reason they don't sell is because business owners have a job. They don't have a business, so you have to start with people. You don't build a business. You build people.
Right.
And people build the business. So you gotta have the right people in the right seats, and it's challenging. It is not easy. Entrepreneurs, you know, they have to stop. You know, entrepreneurs it starts with mindset, Michael, and entrepreneurs have to change their mindset. First of all, they gotta stop thinking of of their business as their baby. Your business is not your baby. Your babies are at home. Go home. Love them.
Hug them. Kiss them. Treat your business as a valuable asset as it is. You know, we don't look at our stock portfolios and say, oh, my baby, my baby. But we look at our business and say it's our baby.
And then we always have this mindset that if we want it done right, we have to do it ourselves. So that can't be further from the truth. Entrepreneurs are good at some things and bad at a lot of others. So we gotta get unstuck. Entrepreneurs are stuck working in their business, not on their business.
We gotta hire the right people. I gotta make sure they're in the right seats, Michael, because so many people it's like trying to fit you know, I said that to somebody in my office the other day. I said, I feel like I'm trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. You know, you gotta get the right person in the right seats, and that's that's not easy. 1st, you gotta determine what are those seats.
And I always tell my clients, ask the who question. Who opens the door, handles customer service, answers the phones?
That's right.
Marketing, legal, quality control, environmental, manufacturing, logistics. The clue, Michael, is that you should never be next to the who as they're trying to build the business together.
To the right people.
You gotta delegate to the right people. And, you know, business owners like, well, if I want it done right and I'm I'm like, no. Because here's the bottom line. You will never grow unless you let go of the control. Yeah. So we gotta as entrepreneurs, we have to let go of the control. Now that doesn't mean let go and never look at anything again. You know? You gotta learn to trust, but verify, and inspect what you expect.
It's so powerful what you said. It it really is. I I love everything that you said because, I've noticed with a lot of, you know, not just entrepreneurs, even even, I I've met numerous, CEOs of of, of businesses. And, you know, they wanna do so much. They wanna have control over everything.
They wanna be involved in everything. And the the the fact is is that you need to ensure that you have the right people in your organization, and you allocate that work to them if they have the right skills and capabilities and experience, allocate that to them so you don't have to do all that work because that makes you very inefficient. And you can't build a company with inefficiency. You gotta build it with efficiency. You gotta be productive.
So then you, as, you know, the the head of the operation can focus on the really important things. Right. Instead of answering sales calls.
Right. That's why you gotta go to working on your business, not in your business. And, I mean, there are some things and I I think it's really important for an entrepreneur to look at themselves and say, okay, what are my strengths? I call this the ABC test, you know, Keep a journal and write down everything you do for the last 30 days, or you can do it for 2 weeks or a week. It doesn't matter.
But everything you do from the minute you get up brushing your teeth and you put you have your a bucket, your b bucket, your c bucket. Your a bucket are only those things that you can do and nobody else can. Only I can write my books. I tried a ghostwriter. It was a terrible experience. I'll never do it again. Only I can really get be on these podcasts. I can't have somebody on my team come interview with you because you wanna interview me. Right?
That's true.
It's Only I really, right now, can really negotiate those multimillion dollar 50, 70, 80, a $100,000,000 deals.
Right. Right.
You know? So you gotta take stock of what only you can do that nobody else can, that you can't delegate. Then your b bucket are those things that you're really, really good at, but you can you can delegate those like you just said. Like, I can do evaluations, but why would I? I have a team of analysts.
Evaluation will take hours upon hours upon hours. You know, what we're talking about right now is just not time management, but it's called energy management. You gotta manage your energy. You know, I say if you have too many cycles open on your computer, what's your computer do? It runs slow. Right? It eventually shuts down. That's what happens with the person, with the human. We have so much open at one time. We're trying to do everything.
We're gonna slow down. We're gonna get become sluggish. We're gonna get burned out. We're just gonna shut down eventually. So that that b bucket of things you can delegate, and then the c things, the c bucket is things you should never do because they zap your energy.
Like, you shouldn't mow your own lawn. Michael gets somebody else to do it. You know, I have to wash your own cars because somebody else did it. Those are energies that you know? And you also gotta look at what what is your time worth? What do you get paid an hour? Yeah. Yeah. It's And if you get paid a $100 an hour or let's say you get paid $50 an hour, pay somebody $15 an hour to mow your lawn. You know? Makes sense?
You can use your time somewhere else. Maybe, you know, something more important like your kids. You know? Things like that.
Exactly. And that's what happens to entrepreneurs. They're so spent at the end of the day because they're spending so much time in their business baby
That's true.
And not their actual babies that when they go home, they're not really you know, they don't have a quality family life because they're so spent and they're exhausted and, you know, they're not balanced. And I don't believe there's any such thing as real balance, but I do think there's some give and take.
Yeah. You know what? I think, Michelle, I think things I I have just my opinion, my perspective. I I feel things are starting to shift slowly in terms of entrepreneurship and just the whole start up culture. I think there was a big there was an era where you gotta work, work, work, work, work hard 16 hour days, 18 hour days, but the fact is and work work ethic, of course, is very, very important.
You have to work hard. Work ethic is also very subjective. But right now, I think it's starting to shift where you need to be more efficient and work smarter. Mhmm. It's not all about working hard.
You can work 16 hours, but are you really being productive in those 16 hours? You know what I mean? You can sometimes you can get more done in 5 or 6 hours than you can done in 10 or 12 hours. Or so I I've learned that of growing my business for for, just about 10 years, about to hit 10 years as well. So, yeah, learned a lot. Learned a lot. Yeah.
And that's when you go back to what are my core competencies. You know? What should I be focused on? What should I be delegating? So I am working smart, not so not as hard. Yeah. And really go back to the results. What are what are the results you're trying to accomplish for that day? You know? And try to focus your energy around those results instead of getting busy with the data stage task of putting out fires.
Yeah. And and, you know, for the the clients that you deal with or even, you know, potential prospects and leads, that have a business,
How do you
know when they were they are ready for some sort of merger acquisition? What's the what what's kind of the the the plan for that? How how how do you know that they're ready as a company to to do that? And and I mean I mean but that as in, like, they want to do that. They want to have some sort of merger acquisition. How do you know they're ready as a company?
So there's a series of questions. There's a couple of chapters in my book in the first section. You know, chapter 2 is is all about timing. When should you sell your business? So we really, you know, talk to our our prospective clients and find out what is going on. Why do they want to sell in the 1st place? Why are they looking to sell? What's the most important things to them? We take them to what I call the seller sanity check. And then what do they need from the seller business?
You know, what do they wanna sell their business for? This is typically where we find out how realistic or unrealistic they are. And most sellers are unrealistic in the purchase price of their company because they base the purchase price on what they need, not what the value is. For instance, I have a client tell me, oh, Michelle, I need 5 I might I wanna sell my business for $5,000,000. I'm like, okay.
Your cash flow is a 100,000. We're not getting anywhere close to 5,000,000. How do you come up with that number?
Yeah. How do
we come up with
that EBITDA? Right? That's what
I need. Yeah. That's what I need to retire on, or that's what I need to put 5 girls to college and pay for 5 girls' weddings. And so if that's what they need and they can't sell their business because they can't afford to, then we can't sell their business because they'll be having to go to work for someone else. So we have to really look at what do they need from the sale of their company, what does those funds have you know, the sale of the the proceeds from the company, what what does that have to fund?
Is that funding retirement? Is that funding a new company? What exactly is that funding, and how far is this gap? You know, their gap of what they need versus the gap of what the real value is. And then that determines if a company is ready or not.
Plus, do they have the infrastructure? Are they running on all 6 p's, all 6 cylinders, all 6 p's, or are they only running on 2 or 3? That's the only one in on 2 and 2 or 3, and their EBITDA is a 100, 200,000. We might be able to get their EBITDA to half a $1,000,000 if we can get them operating on all 6 p's. So determining when to sell the business really has a lot of factors that have to be considered as far as the seller's mindset and what the seller is trying to obtain.
Do you find it, excuse me, do you find it more difficult to sell service based businesses rather than product based businesses? And when I mean product, it can be software, a SaaS, right, or even like a coffee mug company, you know, actually I
don't find it
more product. Yeah.
The only time it becomes more difficult, Michael, is when the service business is completely dependent upon that owner. A dentist who is one dentist. I had a dentist that came to me, came to me not that long ago, been in business 50 years. One dentist, 3 dental hygienists, the dental hygienists are his daughters. And I said, look, I can sell your business, but I'm not gonna be able to maximize value.
Plus, the purchase price is going to have contingency language contingent upon, like, clawbacks or an outsell financing, contingent upon you staying on for 2, 3 years. And he said, well, honey, we're not staying. I said, well, honey, you're not selling. So what makes a service business difficult to sell is if that business is dependent upon the owner. Service businesses are not hard to sell. We sell electrical businesses, AC and heating businesses, medical practices,
you
know, all types of different service industries, as long as they're not dependent upon the owner. That's the key. There's a lot, you know, there's plumbing businesses out there where they got one plumber, You know? So it's not really a business. It's a job.
So I go back to, do you own a job or do you own a business? And that's where they have a product company or a service company. We're selling a, business right now. I don't wanna it's a products business. I don't wanna say what they do because Mhmm.
They don't have a lot of competition, but they have 350 employees. The business is still without is still dependent upon its owner because the owner has all the relationships with the clients, and the owner has all the data in his head. I was selling this business between 50 to 70,000,000. The owner is we're not gonna be able to sell a 100%. We'll probably sell 80%. The owner has to stay on for a while.
Wow.
So it really goes back to, you know, how much is that business dependent upon the owner? So product service, it doesn't really matter. What matters is do you have a business or do you have a job?
And does that go is that the same thing with the, valuations, product and service? They can still be evaluated kind of this I mean, they're every business is different. But, I mean, do you see more product based businesses valued higher? Because they they have something tangible there or it it doesn't matter?
It it really depends. So SaaS businesses will typically get the highest multiple, and SaaS businesses will typically trade for multiple of revenue. They're the only industry. Every other industry is a multiple of EBITDA or STE, so it's discretionary. So multiple of EBITDA.
So businesses I'll give you a crash course in evaluations. Businesses under $1,000,000 in EBITDA will typically trade from 3 to 4, maybe 4a half depending upon their synergies operating in all 6 p's, especially the proprietary assets, which is a 4th p. Businesses over $1,000,000 in EBITDA will typically start at 4a half, 5, and up, again, depending upon the 6 p's, especially proprietary synergies. There are different formulas for different industries. We're able to get our clients typically more, usually 20 to 40% more of what the business appraises for, especially for the businesses that have over a 1,000,000 in EBITDA.
Because you asked me what's easier to sell, product or service. It doesn't matter. It's industry we're industry agnostic. What matters is EBITDA. Right.
There are more buyers for EBITDA of over $1,000,000 than there are businesses to buy for EBITDA. I always say there's more buyers for good businesses than there are good businesses to buy. So when we get the EBITDA higher, we go to market without a price. And depending upon there's 5 different types of buyers. Depending upon the different types of buyers, like strategics, private equity groups, etcetera, depending upon those synergies, they're gonna be out willing they're gonna be willing to embed other buyers because those synergies will help catapult their own their current business to the next level.
Wow.
That's how we're able to get higher prices for our clients. So the name of the game is the name of the game is funds build your company on the solid infrastructure on all 5 p's, people, products, processes, proprietary patrons, and you will be profitable. Lack of profits, profits is a 6 p. Lack of profits is never the problem. Lack of profits is a symptom of 1 of the other 5 p's.
Are are there, core mistakes that you see through most of the businesses, the clients that you deal with? Okay. Are there core mistakes that you see that are very common?
Mhmm. With most Yeah. I call it the 10 mistakes business owners make. There are so many mistakes. Number 1 is building a job, not a business. You know? Not having the right people in the right seats. The business owner's stuck working in the business, not on the business. Another big, mistake I see is in the second p, which is product. Business owners stop innovating. You know, remember when I said 70% of businesses go out of business?
Right.
The number one reason for that is lack of aim. Aim is always innovate and market. Toys R Us did nothing different in 75 years.
Right.
Blockbuster sold Netflix, had the opportunity to purchase Netflix twice, sat back, and did nothing. So innovation, a lot of business owners been in business for over, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20 years. They stopped innovating. Michael, they wanna keep doing things the way they've always done. The other big mistake in product that I see is that they have one profit center.
Take, for instance, a restaurant. They get paid one way. You come in and eat or you take food to go. Most of them do have ecommerce services, ecommerce site. Most of them don't sell products. They don't have any additional profit centers.
It goes back to lack of innovation. Yeah.
Lack of innovation. So when a pandemic hit, they were practically out of business because they had one profit center. You gotta have multiple streams of revenue. I like to have 10. Just like I've like to have 10 marketing channels.
10 marketing channels, 10 multiple streams of revenue, and they should be congruent. And then processes, you know, another big mistake I see business owners make is in processes. And a lot of business owners design their processes around their own agenda. I'll give you an example. Chiropractors.
Hours on Monday, Wednesday, Friday from 9 to 12. They're closed from 12 to 3. They're open from 3 to 5. They're open Tuesday morning, closed Tuesday afternoon, open Thursday afternoon, closed Tuesday morning, open a half a day on Friday so they can go play golf. Now do they design those hours around their patient's agenda?
No. Experience? No. So business owners, one of the reasons why so many business owners lose market share is because they don't think about their customers. They don't think about what do my customers want, need, how can I make it easier for them to do business with us?
Whoever makes it easiest for the customer to do business with them is the company is winning. I mean, Amazon is winning because you can practically buy anything on Amazon and haven't delivered in 2 days. So you gotta think about the customer experience. I mean, McDonald's brothers did that back in 1950. Did you ever watch the movie, the founder?
Yeah. Great movie. Right? Yes. Back in 1950, McDonald brothers said we wanna develop a fast food restaurant, a fast food system, and we wanted to base it around the the customer's experience. We want our customer's experience three things, great tasting food that's hot and fast, 30 seconds or less. So we gotta go back to the basics. So that's a big mistake. Proprietary? You wanna know some big mistakes in proprietary?
Business owners get ace. They go to they think of a company name. They go to GoDaddy. They get the dotcom. They're like, yes. And then they go to their state, and they set up an a trademark in their state, but they never check the federal database. So I've seen a lots of business owners get see receive cease and desist letters, and they have to stop using that company name. That means you have to start all over again. That's very painful. The other big mistake is is is, is contracts.
Contracts are valuable. Manufacturing contracts, distribution, vendor, franchisor with franchisees, client contracts are the most valuable. The biggest mistake, business so I've never seen a business owner that has a 2 sentence transferability clause that says this contract is transferable upon a new entity. And 98% of all sales are asset sales, not stock sales. And if your buyers don't agree to a consent to transfer, then your deal could fall apart.
Also patents, you know, not making sure you're protecting your IP. And then when you do have all this IP, never ever put it in the same corporation with your business. You need a separate LLC holding that IP. Just like when you get real estate, I've seen so many business owners put the real estate in their core their business corporation. Don't do that.
Right? Yeah. So, patron mistakes, business owners have customer concentration versus customer diversification. Most businesses still follow the 80 20 rule, where 80% of their revenues comes from 20% of their clients. They lose a few clients.
They could practically be out of business. And in profits, there are so many mistakes that business owners make around profit. And most business owners do even not look. I just had one of my analysts talk to a potential seller. The gross revenue is 8,000,000.
They have no idea what their EBITDA or net income is. They have no idea. You know? So not knowing your KPIs, huge mistake, you know, not having checks and balances in your accounting department. I think it's 3 out of 5 business owners get embezzled every year, something like that. 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars are embezzled. So you always gotta trust but verify. So that's a huge profit mistake. Running personal expenses through your business. Okay.
Everybody does it, but the problem is they forget about what they run through the business. We're dealing with a client right now who's getting ready to go on Shark Tank, and they want us to help them with their evaluation so they don't look like a fool in front of the sharks when I give a crazy evaluation. And they don't remember all the stuff they ran through the business. I don't have a crystal ball. So, you know, that's another big mistake.
Not reporting cash is huge mistake. This will get you in a lot of trouble.
Yeah. I I've noticed a lot of, a lot of business owners don't know their numbers very well. You know, I I I mean, we've been through that earlier on, but, yeah, we learned our we learned our lessons. Later on, you need to know your numbers, understand, you know, net gross, understand your your profit margins, very important as well. And it it really allows you to make, you know, much better decisions. You know? You need to have a solid picture of your of your finances.
Absolutely. And you need to look at them on a daily basis. Always know your KPIs because I don't know if you know this, Michael, but there are so many businesses that are, yeah, it's close to going out of business and the owner doesn't even know. They're operating on a shoestring, You know? So, yeah, you you gotta know your numbers.
And if you're not a numbers person, then get a numbers person, get a CFO, you know, get a bookkeeper, but trust but verify. You know? I I had a client one time that his actual CPA was embezzling money from him. So you always gotta trust but verify.
Wow. And you probably come across a lot of clients as well that they do wanna exit. And just based on your review, your analysis, your evaluation of them, you you're you're probably very, direct and transparent. Let them know that they're not ready for an exit. I'm sure.
Well, I am very direct. I am very transparent. It's just like that dentist I told you about. You know, I said, look. This is how I can sell your business, but it's not gonna maximize value. It's like, well, we don't wanna do that. We're gonna leave. And I'm like, well, then you have nothing to say. You might as well just close your doors. But, yes, I am very transparent, and I let clients know what they need to do.
We also have started a road to sell program too because, like I said, 80% of this not like I said, like Steve Forbes says, 80% of businesses won't sell. So we have a road to sell, program that, we are when clients are not quite ready and there's a valuation gap of what they need to retire on, then we will run them through this program to get their business ready and get them ready.
Do you ever see those businesses, Michelle, where they plateau? I've spoken to a few people about this, where they plateau and, you know, especially for the smaller businesses. I think it's like from what I heard, this may not be right, but it's like 2 or 3,000,000. It's very tough to get past that. What's your experience with that? How do how does a company really get past that that plateau? Get over it.
Well, number 1 is innovation. You know, we go back to innovation. Right? That's number 1. Number 2 is go back to the 6 ps we talked about. Number 3, you know, what got you here won't get you there. So there's a book called I think there's a book called what got you here won't get you there. But sometimes you have to change management. Sometimes you have to change, you know, leadership. You have to get maybe a different visionary in place.
You know, you see big corporations do that all the time. Right? So out with this out with the old CEO and with the new because they need they need new blood. They need a new visionary in place. They need innovation.
So when you plateau, it's because it's because there's lack of innovation in marketing. There's lack of vision, lack of leadership, and typically lack lack of infrastructure. So in order to avoid plateau and, like, again, when you're moving if you if you have built a $50,000,000 company and now you want a $200,000,000 company, you're not gonna build that $200,000,000 company with the same players that you have for the $50,000,000 company.
Right.
You're gonna have to step it up and get new players. You know? If somebody if a football team is trying to go to the Super Bowl, what are they gonna do? They're gonna put the best players in. Right?
Right.
Yeah. So same thing with a business. If you're trying to grow that business, you can't always do it with the same players you have. I don't know why you use that football analogy. I'm not a big football person.
No. It makes sense. I mean, you see you know, it's a great analogy. I mean, you see it all the time with sports teams. Right? They're they're they're trading all the time even though there's a lot of a lot of craziness going on with that on the way they treat the players. But, anyways, that's a different discussion. But, yeah, you know, there's a lot of trading, and and they need new blood. They need new they need they need new players to, to quote, unquote innovate the the the team. Right?
Well, they need the players who are gonna get them to the Super Bowl.
Yeah.
Not the the players who are not. Who's the guy that that just changed teams and he's has how many Super Bowl championships? Peyton? Is it Peyton Manning? No.
I'm not sure. I'm not a big fit football guy. I'm more a soccer I'm more I'm more soccer in boxing. But Or you
should be a hockey. I heard that the lightning just won, just won the the cup again. It's like the second or third time. Anyway, you growing takes innovation. You're either growing or dying. And what got you here won't get you there.
Yeah.
So if you've flat plateaued and you're innovating, you're doing everything you think you should be doing, you need to get a new set of eyes in there.
You know? And, Michelle, like, when it comes to to leadership, right, you know, it's very important, especially with running a business. You have to be a good role model. You have to be a leader. Otherwise, you can't you can't lead that organization. So with leadership, what's your advice with what it really takes to be a good leader? And I've I'm sure you've probably dabbled on this, mentioned it, you know, a few times before. But
Well, I think, you know, you said that you can't run a business without being a good leader. I'm gonna slightly disagree with that because I'm gonna say that I think a lot of entrepreneurs are not great leaders. A lot of entrepreneurs are like, get it done. Get it done. Get it done. You know what I mean? Place.
Yeah. They're all
And all over the place. And Yeah. And they're not necessarily the best leaders, and they want everybody to work at the same level that they do. Now I work 14 hours a day. Why don't you work 14 hours a day? I don't take a lunch. Why are
you taking a lunch? Right? It's not your business. It's because
it's not your business. Why? But they they expect everybody to be them. Right. So entrepreneurs entrepreneurs are not always the greatest leaders.
I think an entrepreneur has to first look at themselves and identify, are they a good leader or aren't they? Many entrepreneurs have hired management teams. They have hired leaders because they're not the best leader. Or they've hired an integrator, and they lead that integrator, and the integrator leads all of the teams, kinda like in traction. So you have to first decide you don't have to first determine what go back to your core competencies.
What are your skill sets? What are you the best at? If you're the best at leadership, great. Lead your team to victory. If you're not the best at leadership, don't try to be great at leadership. Hire people who specialize in that and focus on what your core competencies are.
Yeah. And I and I meant more kind of not even entrepreneurship. I meant, like, leadership in general, but just, you know, a a a CEO who's at a company who is considered a a leader. Like, what really what does it mean to be a good leader? And it's more generalized, not just entrepreneurs. Because entrepreneurs are there there's a lot of, lot of clutter. They're they're kind of all over the place, doing too many things. But
They are, and then there's some really good ones. But I think, you know, to be a good leader, I think you have to be a good follower. So being a leader, you gotta be a good follower. A good leader is always learning and is always growing. It's like a sponge. It's always soaking things up. Right? You're either growing or dying. So Right. In order to be a good leader, you also have to be a good follower.
And I've met some of the best leaders that have some of the best mentors around. They're great followers. They follow their mentor and their mentor's advice. So to be a great leader, I think you have to be a great follower. I think you also, have to have a degree of empathy, you know, clear on your vision, clear on your communication, precise in what you're wanting to accomplish, clear on your objectives.
And I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs try to lead, but they're more buoyant and micromanaging than they are leading. You know? You gotta you gotta put people in the right seats, and then you gotta trust that they're going to do their job correctly. And you gotta empower them. A good leader empowers our people to also make mistakes because it's the mistakes that we learn from. Right?
Yeah.
I also think a good leader encourages our people not to bring them problems, but to bring them solutions.
Love it. Love it. That's great great advice. Great advice. You know? And I I wanna jump a little bit here, Michelle, in in more about kind of storytelling. When it comes to you, you know, your story and how you built Tyler Tucker, I'm sure you've been through your challenges and and obstacles. And there are there any that come to mind that were just very, very tough and you were able to to get through them and and how you kind of got through them?
Yeah. You know, I just went through one yesterday. Yeah. I just went through one yesterday. It was very, very, very tough. You know, we've had I've had lots of, tough setbacks, lots of challenges. I've lost money, you know, on different investments. I've lost a quarter of a $1,000,000 with the wrong investment, and I've lost quarter of a $1,000,000 hiring the wrong marketing people. And, that's, you know, a pretty big setback. Right? But
Of course.
Oh, yeah. Losing money is not losing money, I I think I look at that differently than other people. You know? When when I lose money like that, I look at it as, well, number 1. If I made it once, I'll make it again.
Yeah. That is true.
So I definitely will make it again, and I need to be better at doing due diligence. I do due diligence for my clients. I need to do it for myself.
Right.
You know? So those are some challenges. You know, and and just I've I've had different challenges just like we all have. You know? I I've had employees where I've groomed them, groomed them, groomed them, and they've decided they're gonna leave for whatever reason.
They're gonna move, and that's challenging. You know? In business, there's all kinds of different challenges are going to come our way. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, why are you in business in the first place? Why are you an entrepreneur? Why do you do this? Because it's not easy. You know, at the end of the day, what is your why? And your why needs to be greater than the pain of the challenges. The why needs to be greater than the temporary pain. Does that make sense?
Yes. It does. And you
know Failure is temporary. Quitting is permanent.
Right. I love it. That's very, very, very good and very powerful advice, Michelle. I really appreciate that. And, you know, one of the the basically, the final question I always ask, everyone on the podcast is so when it comes to your story, right, if you had to define your story in just one word, what would it be? And that that can be your life, that can be your your career, but if you have to define it in one word.
Yeah. I have 2 words, so that's tough. Okay.
That's okay. That that's alright.
But but the one word that comes to my mind is resilience, and the second word is faith.
Nice. Yeah. Everyone has a a very different word. Some people have the same, but that's good. And you might be the only one that might have too. Actually, I had one that had a full sentence, so it happens. It's tough, but, no, I love it. It's awesome. Thank you so much, Michelle. You are you are wonderful.
I really appreciate you and everything that you do, and I'm very thankful for you being on the podcast. So, where can everyone find you? You could talk you know, let's talk about your book a little bit and and, you know, your social media, you know, your website.
Sure. So my main, my main website is silortucker.com. That's silortucker.com. And my social media tags, we can send you, but it's Michelle Siler Tucker on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn. Connect with me. But I'll make sure that we that those are initial notes. And then the book, Exit Rich, so it just launched June 22nd. Awesome. Congratulations. Thank you so much.
I mean, it was a work in progress, and that was a challenge in itself because I completed writing in Exit Rich in 2019. We were going to publish in 2020, and then a small little virus hit. And so we ended up just launching a couple weeks ago, so we really had to pivot. And it took us over a year and a half, so that was a big challenge. But Exit Rich, you know, was endorsed by Steve Forbes.
And Steve Forbes says Exit Rich is a gold mine for entrepreneurs because they leave way too much money on the table when they go to sell their business. And Sharon Lechter. Have you heard of Sharon Lechter?
Yes. I have. Yeah.
She was my coauthor. She is my coauthor, and she wrote with Chef Pordell with Robert Kiyosaki
That's amazing.
PA
Wow.
Financial literacy expert, the adviser to different presidents. So she writes him in towards corner after each chapter from her perspective. And her husband's an intellectual property attorney, so that's kind of a bonus. He had some content under proprietary section. And, Kevin Harrington, the original shark on Shark Tank, wrote the forward.
Yep. Plus, we got glowing testimonies from Jack Canfield, Bob Proctor, Tom Hopkins, Hopkins, etcetera. So Exit Rich, you can still go to exitrichbook.com. Now you can buy it on Amazon, your choice, but at exitrichbook.com, we have a bunch of bonuses. So exitrichbook.com for $24.79 plus shipping.
We will email you to digital download immediately. We'll ship the hardcover to your doorstep, and then we'll give you a lifetime membership into the x rich book club where we have video content and me doing training on these different techniques and strategies, plus documents, documents to operate your business, documents So we have sample employee handbooks, operational manuals, policy and procedure manuals. We have example letter of intent, purchase agreement, mister diligence checklist, closing docs. These documents will cost you 1,000 upon 1,000 of dollars if you want your attorney to recreate. I know because I spent the money, and they're all available for review and download, plus a 30 day, free membership in 2 club CEOs, which is a entrepreneurship mastermind.
Where we help business owners pivot and build that sustainable, scalable, sellable business all at exitrichbook.com for $24.79 plus shipping. Awesome. Yeah. I'll be And if you're international now. Yeah. If you're international, it's even more shipping.
Of course. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. I'm really, really grateful, and I I think a lot of people are gonna learn from you. A lot of amazing advice. I know you've you've been through a lot, and you've built so many successful businesses. And, I wish you nothing but the best, with Siler Tucker. And, thank you so much. This is an honor. I'm very, very grateful.
Thank you, Michael. It's my honor and my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on.
Absolutely. And thanks again everyone for listening, and this is your host, Michael Georgiou from Tales From the Pros. And until next time. Thank you, guys. Please subscribe to our YouTube page and also follow our social media. There are links somewhere around here. But, we really appreciate it guys. Thanks for all the support and I'm gonna be giving you awesome content continuously. And we look forward to seeing you soon.