How to Build A Customer-Centric Brand that Provides Actual Value

I would like I would know, you know, so how do we you know, I mean, it's like how how do you just make it absolutely insane? You know? What are the you should probably you should probably do a video just so it's like, hi, Michael. Mhmm. You know, it's like, whatever the I mean, just literally have a video just of that.

He has 4 decades of branding expertise working with companies of all sizes all around the world, from start ups to large global enterprises. And he is also a keynote speaker and is the best selling author of his number one Amazon book called Brand Intervention. He has won over 330 international design awards. I'm sure there's hundreds of more coming, and has been named the presidential ambassador for global entrepreneurship. He's also received recognition by some of the world's top names in the business world such as Daymond John from Shark Tank, as you all know.

I believe he was the founder of FUBU, and also Grant Cardone, which you see all over social media known as the you know, one of the top sales sales guys in the world. And, yeah, let's let's talk about it again. Your your nickname is, the grandfather amongst, many others, I'm sure. So, David, I really appreciate you, man. Thank you for, being on the show with me here today.

And I'm like and I did a lot of research on you. I'm like, man, I need to have this guy on the show. And when I read about you, it was just so intriguing and, just all the experience you have. I love marketing. I love branding.

I I I I just love the creativity and and, and in addition to that, storytelling. And I know you're a storyteller yourself, and we'll talk about that in this in this, in the show. But, kind of starting from the beginning, David, can you tell us a little bit about how you really got to where you are today in in just, you know, a few minutes? Really, what's what what are some of the the pinnacle moments? How did you get to to this place you are and this this this success, this level of where you're at right now?

How did it all happen?

I got to appreciate, understand entrepreneurship a bit, etcetera, etcetera. And there was always a drive. There was always a fire that was I was always gonna, like, push what was possible, And there are times when I look at the things that I did early on, and I was like, what a what a set of balls. I I I I I I was blind ambition, man. It was like I'd go, well, why not blah blah blah blah blah?

And I think I think, based on what I've seen, more people when they first get into the workforce let go. Hey. I'm gonna conquer the world. Right? I can do anything.

Right? They haven't run into any battles that they've lost, and so they're I can so what could be done? If someone doesn't have that, then they're operating in a different sort of mentality than than I was. But the entrepreneurs that I know, the creators that I knew, the ones that I aspire toward to be like was, like, that's I love that. I love taking something that is ordinary and making it extraordinary.

I love taking something that's bland and boring and making it exciting. I love taking something that is, I mean, I first of all, just as a context, I love cooking, and I and I love I love music. I was a drummer when I was in my teens, so sometimes I'll use those as as analogies. You know, you could take a normal 44 if you know music. It's not like a regular boom. But

I the reason I ask is because everyone has their own take on it, on their own story, and and and, you know, getting to the point where they are today. I know David, I'm sure for you, being, you know, this this great businessman and, you know, you know, having having so much experience in branding, marketing, all these things. I'm sure you've had a lot of ups and downs as well. I'm sure that you've learned from a lot of those obstacles that you've you've gone through. You have to. Right?

They can keep asking questions all day long. I you know, if they if their if their stupidity level is really, really deep, meaning, like, they're just not educated, they're not informed, or they didn't think this, or they didn't think that, and all of a sudden, it's like all of a sudden they're they're awakening as you're going through the process, and all of a sudden, that's changed the scope of the project. I failed by not having a proper structure in there to to account for that possibility.

They're looking so closely at what they're doing and that they've lost a perspective on the outside world. And and so I one of the things that I tell clients do is said, you right now, I'm just gonna let you know, my job is to get you to fall out of love with your brand. And and you know what? Because if we if your baby's ugly, we need to know it. Okay?

I mean, I just straight up. Right? If your baby's incredibly talented. If you if you have, like, a freaking superhero there, but but you're but you're doing it a disservice by talking about it with the same language as all the other bozos. So if you've got a bunch of, let's say, very average if you have an industry that's been around for a while, and you're now coming in and you're gonna disrupt it, But you're talking the same language as everybody has been talking about for 40, 50, 60 years.

Like, every like, because look, you've been you've been in business. I've been in business. One of the first things you say, tell me about your company, and they'll usually tell you all these wonderful things. Wonderful. Wonderful. Wonderful. And I go in for the dirt. I'm like, great. I say, thank you. See now. Here's what I wanna know. If I went to your competitors, why do I know they would pretty much tell me pretty much about them what you just told me about you? At which point they go

Like, they don't they're like, what do you mean? I have a logo. I'm like, okay. They're like, yeah. We just created a logo. Been around for 25 years, but it it's just I'm just like, wow. Like, I mean and some of them, I've I even wonder how they've become so successful. Some of them are are killing it. Some not some are killing it. I'm just like, wow.

They haven't even they've just been around for so long, and they're content. They're fine with with where they're at. It's just it's mind boggling, but I'm also thinking differently than them because I I think in that way, but they're not they're just like, hey. Listen. We need to get this work done. We need to get this new client. They're not thinking about, oh, what's our brand personality? You know, what's the character of our brand? What's the emotional connection?

That's all they didn't care about brand. It was like, no. They didn't care about this thing that actually built something that was a relationship, that built something that was a longer play, that was more of the the marathon. Like, hey. You know, will people know you?

Are people just gonna know you on the last deal that you hammered out and the last contract that you got signed? And some of those some of those are happy with that model. But at the same time, I took one of New York City's premier landscape designers. Incredible work. Right?

The projects that he'll work on can go anywhere from $50,000 to half a $1,000,000. Right? And the work's amazing. And when and I remember when we looked at the when we when I looked at his brand, I said, your brand sucks. I said, everything that just came out of your mouth, if I looked at your what you gave me as a card and material like that and stuff like that.

I looked at that and listened to and compared to what because that like, you have to sometimes separate that stuff out because in their world, it's all it's all mishmashed altogether. Separate it out. All of a sudden, I said, do I would would I get that if I just looked at this? I held up his card, which is just a nightmarish. Said, would I would I get that from from what you just said?

People love my card. And I said and I remember I remember hearing that. Like, hey. People love my card. Like, dude, this is butt ugly.

Like, this is but it's not just a matter of, like, pretty or ugly. It's a matter of, like, it's butt ugly because it does not 1, it it is ugly, but 2, it didn't tell the story that I pay attention to every detail and will transform your ordinary area that you entertain and have your family and do whatever into an an oasis, into a sanctuary of just awesomeness. It didn't tell that story. And so that was the kind of that's the kind of stuff that I I love. I love taking people on that journey, and now he says he goes, you're the only person that gets me.

You're the only person that gets me, and his business has expanded as a result. He now knows what to do. He can take ownership of it.

And what do you do, David, in regards to your clients, from start ups to larger companies? How do you guide them? What advice do you give them, in regards to trying create their brand and trying to create that develop that emotional connection? What are some of the things that you tell them during your process?

It's a matter of the most important person needs to be your customer. Your entire brand has to have as its nucleus, your customer. The greatest brands that you that we all celebrate and are all envious of are built around a customer and their values. And so I just reeducate them, and I reeducate them and reeducate them because they think the most important thing to tell and why they've hired me is to help them tell their story. No.

I've hired you to tell the right story in the right way so that it actually means something to the recipient and the individual. That's that's what I help them do. And and, you

I've been through all that all that stuff. It's made me who I am and, you know, it's been part of that. But at the same time, I'm like, okay. Yeah. People can care.

Maybe the really close people care about that, but if I'm gonna talk to someone who's never met me or seen you the same month, you've been bullied. Cool. Next post. Like, you know, it's it's hard to find that balance. How how do you find that balance with a company that that has that wants to show what they've been through and how they got to where they are today as a company, but then make it about their customer?

Or do do you just take out everything about their their story, you know, in general? Do you not talk about them at all, or is it a balance?

I'm like, so the pathway to your customer's front door doesn't start at your front door. It starts at theirs. What does that mean? That means the things that are most real and important to them are their ideas, their frustrations, their challenges, their aspirations, their, you know, annoyances that they put up with, whatever. That's the stuff that's most important and relevant and meaningful to them, and that's at their front door.

And if we ignore that, they're always thinking about that stuff, and you're trying to interrupt them to get them to say, no. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. And and that I I compare that to a blind date. When you go out on a blind date and the person you're going out with, the they wanna sit down and say, hey. Really excited we had a chance to get together. By the way, let me tell you all about me.

It's a learning lesson. It's absolutely right, man. Wow. So what do you do, David, when you do interact with a client or potential client and they think they have a brand? They think they have a brand. They've been around for a while. They're they're doing well. And you and and they they they do kind of have little, you know, more of an awareness of saying, okay. Listen. I I think we can make it better.

How do you you just go there and do an audit? Is it is it something like that? How do you redefine it and and improve it? Or sometimes you come in the case where they don't need improvement.

Everything's going cool, and, you know, customer new customer acquisitions up and blah blah blah blah. Great. Congratulations, first of all. Now why am I here? What problem am I supposed to be helping you with if everything is fantastic?

You know, I mean, so because, you know, if those are 2 contrary facts. You've been invited in to talk them about their brand. So, you know and sometimes it's sometimes you end up in a in the very sorry state of sitting in the chair where you realize you're in the middle of a political in political infighting. This one is like, no. That's the way it's been being done for 20 generations, and we can't stand it.

That's disgusting, and we hate it. Disgusting, and we hate it. And then you have the personal here. It's like, well, I don't see any problem. Everything's fine. I'm looking at I'm looking at the financials, and I'm happy. So then you go, okay. Well, you guys aren't on the same page. So that's that's, that's its own situation. That's

Are you guys making an impact to your audience? Is there is is your audience and your customers, are they feeling something from you? Are they getting? Do they feel are are you are your customers loyal? Maybe they're not loyal because they don't feel attached to your brand. You know, maybe you're buying Well, that's that's

Or if it's kinda like, well, you know, we're actually sales are going, like, sales are going okay. Let me maybe they're kinda like level, at which, you know, let's say the level ish. They're not, you know, they're not contracting, but they're not gonna not it's not exploding. You go, okay. Let me ask you.

How's your how's the rest of you how your competitors doing? Now now let now here's the thing. If it if it's like, well, everyone's going level. So okay. That already tells me right there that they all are blending in, so there's no no one's no one's the winner.

So they're all just scrambling around for crumbs. That's that's that's one point. There's there's such obvious ways to to diagnose this. So that's one obvious thing. Or if they were to answer, when you say, well, how's your competition doing? And they're going, well, all our competition's go go they're all exploding, but we're remaining level. I say, well, then in other words, you're near going out of business. Right? I mean, that I'll I'll just I'll just as I'll be very blunt about it. Yeah.

I'll say in other words, so you can't survive at this level. Even though it even though you're not contracting, but if this is happening and this is going like this, that means it's gonna be less people coming to you. Your actual spaces, even though you might be numbers wise, your days are numbered. Now now you have a different problem. You know?

Or if everyone so I mean so it's kind of comparative. You need to look at the macro and their micro. And if you don't look at both, it's impossible to evaluate how you can best help them.

So that that's the one place because it's it's very interesting to me because I remember someone asked me. See, because I got in, do were you around when when when put it this way. I started my career in 1980. When did you what year did you start your career?

Okay? And so someone recently said, who do you look up to? See, now if I was asked that in 1980 when I got, to, it would be like it would be this designer, and he inspired me. I mean, that was the foundation for my for at least the first 8 years of, like, everything. I kind of, in my mind, I cross checked, would that meet up to his standard?

Right? But then someone recently, about 8, 9 months ago, asked me, who do you look up to? And I looked around in my industry, and it's not designers. I do not look up to and there's no designer I actually there's designers whose work I appreciate. That's no. It's just to distinguish. I appreciate their talent, without question. I appreciate their taste. I appreciate their craft. But there's no the the people that I that inspire me now are thought leaders.

You know, people like a Simon Sinek. Right? Mhmm. Sometimes sometimes Seth Godin. And so those are the ones that inspire me. Those are thought leaders. I don't find I I don't know of any designers today where I go, wow, which to me is a shame. I would love to find, you know, some that were like, wow. They really help compliment, because to me, there's no way that you can design if you do not have what am I designing for. And that that the core is the brand story.

The core is why does this brand exist in the world. The core is how is this brand differentiated from all the other brands. If I don't know that, I cannot navigate my way through design, because I don't know what I'm designing against. I don't know what I'm designing for. And so that to me is is the sequence of it.

If you don't know that, it becomes, well, what's the story, and what's the pitch, and what's the elevator pitch, and what's the and what's our what's our persona, and what's our this and that, and then, you know, what the hell? Right? What's our slogan? What's our tagline? What's our mission statement?

I'm like, I'm like, most people, I could say, look. You can take your mission statement and shove it because it's because the one thing that I ask that normally puts a mission statement in its place is, no especially if someone if a new prospective client shows me that, I said, let me ask you something. Do any of your customers speak like that at all? And I've yet to have one single company owner, entrepreneur, CEO ever say oh, absolutely. That's how that really reflects the values of our client.

Never. It's like, we strive to provide the pinnacle of excellence and customers. It's like, who talks like that?

Brand story, you know, you look at you know, there there are those. I mean, look. You you take a you take a look at, you know, Donald Miller. You take a look at this one. You take a look at you go, okay. Story brand, blah, blah, blah, blah, and he's got his 4 points, and he has a model. He's a template. It's not a flawed template. It's not the greatest template, but I'm not a big fan of templates because of this. It's like innovations didn't result from a cookie cutter mentality.

Why the hell should a brand story result from the same thing? If you know your checkpoints of what are the points it needs to cover and touch upon, you can you can you can navigate. It's kinda like the brilliant it's like it's like that's why, like, you get some great artists or musician. You get someone like a a Jimi Hendrix or a or a Prince or or whatever. You get whatever musician or ever you you go, wow.

How did they play such an amazing solo? Did they did they have a little color by number? Well, I'll do play this. No. Play that. No. They understood it inside and out to such an extent that they could they could create on top of it. And I see. That's where you get very fluid when you get into this kind of when you get into this kind of thing with brand story. To me, what is the role of the brand story?

Brand story needs to support we we need to identify what is the point of differentiation, and then if we know that, we then know how we are unlike everyone else, and from there we can start to navigate a story. We could start to navigate a story that aligns to the values of our customers and also aligns to putting out of existence the enemies of our customers. So we have the hero and the villain. And if you understand just those those components, all of a sudden you can start to weave a story that inspires. I mean I mean I mean I I mean, I took I mean, oftentimes, you know, probably, probably about half or 60% of the brands that I work on, I'll also create I'll say they'll say I'll say, is anything here sacred?

They'll say no. Everything's on the on the table. That means name, slogan, language, everything as well as the design. So good. Like, I took a company, and right now, they literally they they just called me this morning.

They are they they said it's all your fault, David. I'm like, what? They said they said we're having to buy new refrigeration, new equipment, new this, and all kind of stuff because they're in their they're in their 4th month of, like, continuous uptrending sales through this entire crazy per time period we're in. There in 4 months, it's just up and up and up and up and up, and it's like and they they they're running out of space. And they're in the premium food space.

Now I had to learn about the premium food space because I'm not I'm not, like, into, like, dog dogs and pets and stuff. I started to learn about this. I had to learn about Pet Fresh, which is one leading brand. Purina, probably the best known dog food brand, but also the worst quality food product that you could ever give to a dog, period. Mhmm.

And so you so you look at these, you know, puppy chow and this and that and the other, and you look at all these various things, but these guys were producing fresh, uncooked, amazing food. They had had some dogs with with cancer. They actually created these recipes. They did a research, fed it to their dogs. The the Wow.

And then their dogs actually recovered. And so they're not selling it as a cure, but they're selling it as something to help maintain the longevity of of dog owners, and dog owners are passionate about their dogs. So they what do they what do they have? Here and this is just answering your question in a in a context in regard to the brand.

They're gorgeous dogs. Boy dogs. Anyway, so the thing is is Highland Farms is what it's called, and I and I and I started discussing this with them, having the initial discovery call, and I say, you first of all, you think you're in the dog I said, what business do you think you're in? So we're in the dog business, dog food business. I said, no.

You're not. I said, you just told me all about your customers. You're in the life you're in the life you're a lifestyle brand. You are a lifestyle brand. You have people who love a certain quality of life who also happen to have pets. You see, now I got a stage. You see, now I'm starting to formulate a story here. And so it went from Highland Farms you ready for the new name? Napa Fresh.

So now I've got that. Now I formulated that as the nucleus, which the name started to be be be be be be beginning of the brand story. It starts to now now I now I know where we are and where everyone else isn't. I've created boundaries between them and us. Now I can create a look, and then the look is so it's so Napa, Tuscan.

It's just got a beautiful vibe and coloration and everything, and they can't even keep the stuff in stock. They're they're selling us. They're so out of control. It's ridiculous. But that's what I say the sequence is always you gotta start the nucleus of the story, which is which reflects the values of the customer, and that that needs to show up in all the best basic places.

Highland Farms sounds nice. I don't know what the hell it freaking means. Napa Fresh food for dogs. I got no question. Now when you see the visuals, the visuals now just simply amplify it. It, like, takes the innate innate beauty of that concept. Now I can dress that.

It's not like any it's not like any business book you've ever seen. It's not like any design book that you've ever seen. It's ins well, oh, you're you're gonna love this. I gotta show you this. You got you you got you gotta check this out. Check this out. Okay? You you'll appreciate this. First of all, that's how it's actually designed inside.

I'm gonna read it to you. Okay? There's your chapter right there. On on this one side, I'm gonna read this first sentence, and then this is the other side. A good brand makes us feel good about what they stand for. A great brand makes us feel good about what we stand for. That's all that it needed, man. It's a kind