He was cold, cold that he was cold?
What's going on up there?
Could be the most important event in history.
Now, I haven't become the destroyer of worlds, I said.
I hope this is close to him?
Is all?
Never again?
M hm. Hello and welcome to the Tales submit Ark Podcast. I'm your host, Bob. You're with my co host Brittany.
Hey, guys, what's up, Brittany?
How's it going?
It's going good? How are you?
It's going good? I have to start this episode off with a bit of an apology though, because, as we know, it's kind of later in the week for an upload.
Yeah do you what tell? Why?
Okay, So, are.
You gonna try to flip this on me?
No? No, but so I'll just put it out in the open. I have been completely addicted to the new Final Fantasy seven rebirth it just launched. I'm a massive Final Fantasy seven fan. Anyone who knows me knows that that is my like goat, game of the year, Game of the century, top three of all time. End of story. There's I'm not taking any rebuttal.
Every time a new one and like a new whether it was the first time that a rendition came out or a Remit came out or this one, like you dive completely back into the Fallout or Fallout the Fallout Fallout.
You're gonna put some respect on Final Fantasy's name.
You're gonna put some respect on fall Out New Vegas.
Okay. See, one has a good story and the other is about a disgruntled mailman.
So let's let's just know you don't need to over complicate it, but let's just agree to disagree.
Yeah, everyone has opinions, and you know is wrong, but it's fine. Okay. So this is a bit of a weird week because usually I'm the one who finds the stories and then you help research the stories, and we kind of, you know, have an amalgamation of melting of the minds here, but you brought one to me, and the title alone has to be kind of like, uh, I don't like this.
I don't like any of this. Yeah, you definitely seem to be more skeptical about this one, which is weird because like it's classified more as a encryptid, you usually see more open minded about it.
But it's the name. Tell everyone the name.
So what we're gonna be talking about today is the Dovert Demon.
And everyone knows my thoughts on demons. Demons don't exist. If you were an asshole in real life, you were an asshole when you're dead. That's just how this works.
Yeah, but this one isn't. You'll see as we get more into it. This one isn't what you think it's gonna be.
Okay, because because when you initially said, you know, Dover demon, I'm like, first off, that's weird, because you pitched it to me as as a cryptid story. I said, well, a demon is a cryptid, but I guess the Jersey Devil kind of has the same thing. And again we're treading the waters the Satanic panic a little bit here. And given the timeframe, I you know, don't I purposely whenever you bring me a topic, I don't look into it at all. So I'm going into this one hundred
percent blind. I have no idea anything about this story, with the exception of it's encrypted. And I think you said it might loosely tie into like the Hompkinsville or I'm sorry, the Kelly story. Is that right?
Yeah? So actually one of the sketches, which I didn't realize this until today, one of the sketches for the Dover Demon is frequently used in Hellire.
Interesting.
Okay, yeah, so I I definitely think there's a connection. I mean, we know that, like, goblin like creatures are all over the country, countries are all over the world, but they're very prominent in North America for sure.
Yeah, no, absolutely, And it is interesting to me these goblin ask your creatures. They all share some similar characteristics, but there's always something like that separates them. It's similar to how we have like the million bigfoots, you know, the Bigfoot of Yettiebominable Snowman, the port They.
All have good they all have individual characteristics that make them slightly different, but the core definitely seems to be the same in a lot of them.
Okay, so we're just take us away to the Dover Demon, and I apologize. I know I'm going to jump in a lot here, throw in some you know, Catholic church, Gothic church evil. I know that that's going to happen occasionally here, but please take it away.
Okay, So we're going to be starting on April twenty first. I think I believe it was nineteen seventy seven when this occurred.
Seventy seven, seventy seven, right around ten years post Offman Mothmania. Yeah, the Ohio River Valley UFO flap.
Yes. Where it gets kind of similar with the Mothman encounters is that the witnesses were all mostly all teenagers, so they were young, young early adults anywhere between I think fifteen and twenty one were the ages of the witnesses. Okay, And it all happened over like two nights, basically technically one night, but yeah.
Okay, so it's like it came and it went pretty quick.
Yes, So they literally came in, it was spotted for one night by I believe three different groups of people, and then it just vanished and was never seen again.
And again this is early reminiscent. Not to keep throwing back to the Ward interview because I know I mentioned it last week as well, but you know, his documentary that he was producing, I don't think it's out. I don't know if he even has a release date for the Skinwalker Ranch documentary that he did with. I think
it's Tony Merkle's who he's working with. There is a lot of things in the Skinwalker Ranch flap as well that there were, you know, an overwhelming amount of obscure events happening, and you went to Basin for twenty thirty forty plus years. But what's always been interesting to me
about Skinwalker Ranch. This is something we kind of touched about with Ward, is for every like three things that were continuous over the course of you know, the twenty thirty years, there's these little extremely seemingly random happenings that kind of pop in and pop out, you know, for a week, a day, an hour at a time, and then they're never reported again. Yeah, and I almost wonder should we as investigators start to look at these and
categorize them a bit different? You know, it's all part of the you know, if we all want to believe the unified field theory, the phenomena as a whole is
just interacting in certain ways. But if we're going to categorize these things, do we need to have these like instantaneous occurrences versus the long you know, over some long running Yeah, Like, is there any comparison between the two and can be fun start similar to United strangeness if we ever go back and do Kansas or something for example, is there some kind of a similarity you can find like we're doing with united strangeness, you know, painting the
excess back over top of one another. Do the ones that pop up for a day or two also have any similarities that the longer running ones seem not to.
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that would be a good way to look and to try and categorize and differentiate between the short term and long term sightings.
Yeah.
But I think where you kind of get I think where it can get a little hazy is that the side effects of people experiencing these things are still the same. Like this can be still be a very scary, traumatic, okay experience.
Yes, we look at Betty and Barney Hill. The encounter happened over one night, but they kept this their entire lives.
Yeah, so you have to be careful with how much you try put these things in a box. Yeah, because there are still real world consequences for these people that experience them. Absolutely, So I do think scientifically, yes, that could be advantageous, but you have to be careful viewing it like that through a Lenz like that, if you know what I mean.
Yeah, No, that makes perfect sense.
Okay. So this begins at ten thirty pm on April twenty first, nineteen seventy seven, when three seventeen year olds Bill Bartlett, Mike Masica, and Andy Brody are driving north on Farm Street. Bartlett, who's behind the wheel of a Volkswagen, spots something creeping along a low wall of loose stones on the left side of the road. At first, he thinks it's a dog or a cat, until his headlights shine on it and he realizes it's nothing he's ever seen before. The figure slowly turns its head and stares
into the light. It has two large, round, glassy, lidless eyes shining brightly. And this is a quote like two orange marbles.
Okay, so that is eerily similar to some of the reports from the Kelly incident of the glass the glass looking eyes almost reflective, no discernible eyelids of any sort. Very very interesting. Does it go? Does it? I also want to point out the like the the rock outcropping that he had mentioned, because I know recently we made a mistake where we had covered the same state of like multiple times on United Strangeness. And there's like a boulder style monster I think in Colorado that appears in
these like rocky outcroppings. So kind of have some yeah, but.
That was a mountain. That's that's That's the weird thing about that Boulder Monster in Colorado is it's like literally a personification of landslides that come off a mountain. It's huge.
Yeah, it's like a titan.
Yeah, basically. Okay, But the one thing that I find interesting about the eyes is the first thing that I thought of when I heard that is marbles. If you twist them in light, it almost seems like they have a flat pain in them that reflect like a solid sheen of light. And the first thing I thought of is like deer eyes.
Yeah.
Yeah, And we'll see further along in the story. There's actually different encounters where the first encounter believed it was orange. The second encounter, the female I think she was like fifteen years old, she thought that she swore that they were green. They were green eyes. Interesting, and so a lot of people would look at that and say, hey, you know, that's inconsistent, like did this thing actually exist?
But depending on the kind of headlights you have at the angle that your headlights are, that like, it will change the color of deer eyes that reflect it back at you if you're looking at like a deer at night.
So the Dover Demon was just a deer that speak.
If I see a creature a deer that looks like the Dover Demon, like it shouldn't exist fair enough, Okay, according to the physique of this of this creature, and we're about to get in that as well. Okay, So it has a watermelon shaped head, a watermelone, and it's resting on the top of a thin neck and it's basically the size of the rest of its body. So I have no idea how it's holding up that head.
Well, it kind of reminds me of the Kirkland melon heads as well, which, yeah, our friends over at the Sasquatchers Network, I believe they're currently filming or they might have just wrapped filming a Kirkland melon head documentary. I don't know if there's a release date for this yet either.
So, except for it's an oversized head, the creature is thin, with long, spindly arms and legs and large hands and feet. The skin is hairless and peach colored and appears to have a rough err so like like wet sand papers what they could compared it to.
Yeah, this kind of just reminds me of like like your typical gray that you would here described I mean the large, bulbous heads, and depending on who you research and read, I mean, there are people who think that that's where the human race is heading towards right now, Like as we do, we're going to we're going to reach a point of superiority mentally where we no longer need these giant physical bodies. But all we factor in is just the mental fortitude, mental capacity of the person.
And so through I guess reverse evolution, we're going to get weaker. I guess it would still be evolution, it's just evolution of a different form.
Yeah, But the wet sandpaper, that's a very specific texture of their skin because everything I've ever read on grays, which admittedly like it's not like a primary topic of discussion that I try to dive into, but it's always smooth.
It's never rough, Yeah, smooth, glistening, almost.
Almost slimy, like like a slimy looking skin.
Yeah. I've heard them described as what like their skin looks like like a wet snake.
Yeah, but even a snake does scales, so it wouldn't be completely smooth. Like everything I've heard has just been smooth.
Yeah. I don't like snakes. Just so if anyone was wondering my stands on snakes, No.
And that's for sure going to be used against you. Good job Ferbie and a snake. Hey, worst things happen about ske Ferbika, please continue. Don't give anyone any more nightmare fuel to send to me. Oh that's a harass you when bully you. The skin is hairless, though, im peach colored. That's the other thing. The hue of its skin, I've never heard of peach. That's almost a that's like a human color.
Yeah, well, not in a creature, but injured Cold and Carl, both of them were described as having like movie star style skin, which I came to understand is more of a tan all of skin I think are like Greek Italian skin.
Yeah, but that they still looked Yeah, they still looked more human than humanoid. This thing is just a humanoid with a giant freaking head.
Yeah. It almost reminds me of those fake Rake stories that were making the rounds about a month ago on Reddit. So but again, this predates the Rake by you know, three decades, four decades. So.
Yeah, this creature stood no more than three and a half to four feet tall and The figure is shaped like a baby's body, with long arms and legs.
All right, I was out, I'm back in. I'm back in. I never thought i'd say this. I'm pro demon, pro dover demon.
Oh my god.
Twenty twenty four is a wild year.
It has been making its way along the wall, or it had been making ants way along the wall, its long fingers curling around the rocks, when the lights, the car lights surprised it. Unfortunately, neither a Barlet's companion saw the creature. The sighting only last a few seconds before Barlet could speak, and the car leaves the scene. I really flew after I saw it, Barlet recalls. I took that corner at forty five, which is pretty fast. I said to my friends, did you see that? And they said, nah,
describe it. I did, and they said go back, go back, and I said, no way. When you see something like that, you don't want to just stand around and see what it's going to do. Debatable, I mean, okay, but we're freaks, so.
Yeah, no, No, it is interesting, though we have we have to now look at the human element of the drivers, saying absolutely hot, not going back, that's that's real fear. The ones who didn't see it. Again, we had a bear in mind teenage boys. I don't know if alcohol is involved, but you know, teens out and party and having a good time on the weekend, out and back roads. They're like, well, yeah, I need to see I want
to see this thing. You know, because as as young men do there, our capacity for danger doesn't really exist the same way it does for you know, our female companions. And so these two are like, hell, yeah, show this to me. I have to see this. But it's also interesting that only the drivers saw it, because you would think the passenger would be the one that would see it versus maybe the person in the back seat.
I mean, yeah, but as a driver, especially at night, I mean we've taken plenty of night trips. I pay attention to the road more than you do. Hell, even sometimes I'm in the passenger seat, I pay more attention to the road than you do.
That's fair.
So you can't really fall from for not seeing it, especially if they were talking to each other, you know, gallivating, joking around. They're not going to really be paying attention to their surroundings.
Yeah, no, I would agree with that, but.
Yeah, they then take this to a very antagonizing turn. The two companions who did not see this. They finally got me to go back, and Mike was leaning out of the window yelling, come on, creature, and I was saying, well you cut that out. Andy was yelling I want to see you, but the creature was gone. Barlet dropped off his friends and went to Walpole Street home, visibly upset. He walks through the door and his father asked him
what was wrong. Barlett then told him they and then later sketches what he saw, and then the creature makes another appearance same night. So this time is around midnight. So the first one was ten twenty two. Okay, this one's around midnight. Okay, so have a couple hour gap, about an hour and a half.
Yeah.
So, fifteen year old John Baxter leaves his girlfriend his girlfriend's house, Kathy Cronin, on the south end of Miller's High Road. Okay, I'm here for this anyway. Baxter starts walking up his street on his way home. Half an hour later, after he walked about a mile, he observed someone approaching him. Because the figure was short, Baxter assumed it was an acquaintance of his MG Bucherd, who lives on the street.
Okay, okay, so like a friend, neighbor, what have you?
John calls out, MG is at you. He got no response, but Baxter and the figure continued to approach each other until finally the latter stops. The figure stopped, Baxter halts as well and say says who is that? The sky is dark and overcast and he can only see a shadowy form. Trying to get a better look, Baxter took one step forward and the figure scurries off to the left, running down a shallow wooded gully and up the opposite bank. As the figure runs, Baxter hears its footsteps on dry leaves.
He follows the figure down the slope. Okay, that is a it is nighttime, I get it, seventy seven, but sir, it is nighttime. You are a child.
Yeah, but again, children don't have the same reservations about danger as.
Adults do, and especially in that time period.
Yeah, and at this point, he still think this is a neighbor or a friend of his, and he wants to make sure they're okay. It is interesting too, I get he said it was overcast, you know, but still it passed as a human being.
Yeah, with how oblong it's freakin' head is. You would think you would think even through shadowy like presence, you would be able to know that it has a watermelon.
And if you have a head like a bowling ball, I can see you in like silent hill level fog like definitively so. But again, but we have you know at this point this witness does not see glowing eyes, so the eyes itself don't glow. We can go back to a reflection or refraction of light bending around the iris of the eye.
Yeah. He follows the figure down the slope and then stops and looks across the gully. There he sees a creature standing in a silhouette about thirty feet away, its feet molded around the top of a rock several feet from a tree. So I'm assuming like it looks.
Like like the toes are curling around the rock.
Yeah, so instead of being flat footed, which would be normal with a slight curve, its feet just completely like embrace the rock.
Back to the bowling ball. We have hands like you put your hand in a bowling ball.
Well, I think more like a monkey.
I like the bowling ball.
But yes, okay, well it's not hanging on the rock by its tail.
Okay, but a monkey has hands for feet.
Basically, you've never seen one ever.
I actually, why are you gaslighting me?
Okay, please continue. We're not gonna get into this right now.
The horses in North carolina'll over.
Have monkeys here, so please continue.
Okay. So the creature's body reminds reminded Baxters of a monkey's see see.
Okay, you read this beforehand.
These are okay, well I didn't actually read that.
These are not original thoughts, but please continue.
Except for the dark figure eight shaped head, figure eight shaped head. Instead of a watermelon, they're saying, it's an oblong shape with a slight curve around like the jaw.
Someone kicked this thing in the fucking head and it's heav real soft roundhouse Kike, No, no, no, no no. They said it was like a baby, something about a baby babies head have sauce spots.
Just saying that's so messed up.
I know, but it's accurate. You're the one that brought you knew what was going to happen. You brought me the story.
The eyes, two lighter spots in the middle of the head are looking straight at Baxter, who after a few minutes, begins to feel uneasy. Realizing he has never seen such a creature before and fearing what it might do next, he backs away carefully up the slope, heart pounding. He then walks very fast down the road to the intersection on Farm Street. There's a couple passing in a car, pick them up and then drive them home. The next day, Bartlett tells his close friend Will Tainter about a siding.
Can you guess what happens next? So this is technically two nights, okay, around midnight Tainter is driving to Abby Babram or driving with Abby Babram age fifteen home when a encounter with the creature takes place.
Okay, so we have similar age ranges, with the exception of the young man who just saw it. He was young than everyone by quite.
A bit, right, No, he was also fifteen.
Okay, so again we have say, okay.
So fifteen to eighteen is the age range we have right now? Okay, because the couple that picked up are person from last night, yeah, yeah, he he They didn't see it. The creature was already in the woods by the time thirty feet in the woods. The kid had walked further down the road. A couple passed by and picked him up.
Gotcha.
Okay, so all it's only kids who have seen at this point. And I'm not saying like young kids. I mean they're still they're teenagers. But yeah, so is now Will Tanger who is eighteen, and Abby, who is fifteen. They're driving a car. He's taken her home when an encounter with the creature takes place as they passed along Springdale Avenue. Babam spot something off the road. So this this is Abby, the fifteen year old, spot something in the headlights on the left side of the road. That's something.
Is a creature crouched on all fours and facing the car. Its body is thin and monkey like, but its head is large and oblong, with no nose, ears, or mouth.
Okay, so we do kind of have a slight slight change in description here.
Then it is a slight change that they never intentionally the first two encounters never really talked about the other features. I'm assuming like, when you see a creature that has eyes that big, it's kind of hyptonic, so you might not even notice that it doesn't.
Have Yeah, well that and he was driving he saw it from far away. The other kid didn't get a good look at.
It, cause not the man, the woman, the girl is the one who saw.
Me, you know.
But in the first story, oh yeah, driving. He was driving, so he probably didn't get a good look. Okay, because again I'm really trying to be prode over deemon, I might be heading back to the other side.
The creature is hairless and its skin was tan or beige in color. The facial area around the eyes was lighter, and its eyes glowed green. Will Abby insists that this is the case, even after investigators had told her that the first encounter had said the eyes were orange. So again, that's the when I read that, the first thing I thought of is I can see the same deer if I drive back and forth on a road, but from one direction. Based on the angle, sometimes it looks orange,
sometimes it looks green. I don't really know what that, what that reflection in the eyes, and what causes the color is, but I know it happens. I don't know what the scientific explanation it is for it, though I understand Tainter sees the creature only momentarily after, so will the eighteen year old who's driving then sees it after Abby and has the impression that some of something with a large head and a tam body. He doesn't know what it is, but he does know it's not a dog.
Okay.
Frightened, Abby urges Will to speed up so they can get away. Will claims that only after they leave the scene does he recall the original siding his friend Baxter, siding his own had been so brief and unspectacular that he probably would have thought little of it if Abby had not been with him. He asked her to describe the figure, deliberately phrasing misleading questions about aspect of the creature's appearance he knew not to be true based.
On his friend's signing, Okay, that's actually really smart.
Yeah, and that's honestly something you should do, not saying, like, if you have an encounter with somebody and you want to get to the bottom of it, that's not a bad idea. That's what investigators do to get like the true story. Like if they're multiple witnesses, they won't try to ask misleading questions to see if you are convinced that what you had saw happened that way, or that there might be some wiggle room and your impression impression impressionalism is.
That the word. I have no idea.
Okay, Well, they test the waters because memory can be a very fickle thing.
Yeah, well, I mean the human brain and in general can't be trusted, especially in her times of duress. Yeah.
So he asked her the questions in order to check her story, which he had not told her, like that that Barlett had went through, that Baxter had went through, that Abby stuck her story. Though, even after asking those questions, the only discernible difference was again the color of the eyes. She swore up and down that they were green. They glowed green. So and then after this you had a couple of pretty prominent euphyological researchers come in to kind of try to get to the bottom of the Dover
demon story, and it just never happened again. It literally like after those two experience or two nights, those three experiences, no one ever saw this creature again, even to this day.
Okay, Now I can understand the comparison between this and the Kelly case because again, you know, those goblins came and went, I mean literally here one minute, gone the next. That's very interesting to me. I also wonder seventy seven Lourene Coleman probably would have been up there. I've been a look at this. I bet Lauren Coleman probably had something to do with this case. Just give him where it took place one and two. This is around his time period of in the field investigation pre move on,
if I remember correctly. History might be a bit money there, but I'm pretty sure this is like his area.
Yeah. Well, one of the explanations that was given, besides the connection to humanoid creatures and goblin like creatures in North America, is they actually tried to attribute this to Native American more and one of the things that they I've seen pretty frequently regurgitated in the articles is that this creature could be connected to a Native American lore from the uh may make weshy or may make WESSI, which is it's basically a water spirit, which I haven't
checked the maps. I don't know if there's like free flowing water near where this encounter was. I think that'd probably be pretty good to know it happened in Dover, mass I could never say it massive Massachusetts.
If there we go, we sounded it out.
We use our words, not massive. Not massive to tips.
Nope, definitely not.
But yeah, that's where it happened.
Yeah, I don't. I'd have to look at a map. I don't like large bodies of water or like major even rivers near I could be wrong. I mean then near the Bridgewater Triangles in that area, and that had water in the story.
I mean that's water everywhere. We would just have to look at a map and see. So if one of you guys knows and has looked at the map, let us know in the Facebook group or in the comments.
Let us know, and any Massachusetts Massachusetts, yea, let us know.
Okay, So let's go back to talking about the mayme agwashi, which is spelled m a or me e me e g w e s I. Now that is the core name.
I want to say, the common name where the name that has been used inside it and a lot of these articles and was also used in the book that a lot of these articles got the connection from is man neaeh, which is m A n n e g I s h. I gotcha, okay, And from what I could tell, the connection to this Native American lore came from one singular book published in nineteen ninety seven by I think it was carl A Shover scchuv Er, And unfortunately I didn't have time to get a copy before
this episode because I really want to see what he said about it. But the sightings of these articles, like I said, have just been circulating and regurgitating the same connection. So I wanted to get into the root of it. The reason being is after I read the lore of these creatures, it doesn't sound like it matches yeah at all. And so let me get into it and you'll kind of see why.
Yeah. This kind of reminds you of like another Curse of Chief Cornstock situation where it was in a school play one time and then repeated thirty yeah, was.
Over countless times. Yeah. So one of the codenames for this is the little people or river spirits. They're small riverbank dwelling water spirits. They're generally benign creatures, but sometimes they blow canoes astray or steal things when they are not shown proper respect, and some traditions that may magushi can be seen only by children and medicine people that could explain the okay, yes, okay, so that is a good connection.
Yeah.
However, and others they appear to anyone and may help humans who give them tobacco and other gifts. Most often, they are described as being child size but hairy, with a large head and a strange voice that sounds like the whine of a dragonfly.
Weird, okay, a human's obsession with tobacco, I'll never get that.
The cree and anew describe them as having narrow faces, and some storytellers have said that they have no noses. It is sometimes said that they were originally created from the bark of trees. They are also said to carve symbols on rocks and sometimes carves small canoes for themselves out of stone. Some people believe their name comes from the word uh, from the core word mimi me e, m i I, or harry, and they're usually described as
having hairy faces and bodies. Other people believe that their name is related to the word butterfly MIMEGOI E m E n g w A A. So from what I can see, like the hairy, that's what I can't get past, because that's such a stark difference. And if we're talking bigfoots, and if we're talking like the difference between a skunk ape and the Ohio grassman. On paper, they don't have that many differences, but there are stark differences, like and one of those is the texture of either the hair
or their skin or their smell. And with Bigfoot, that is enough to differentiate between the two. And in cryptos zoology it's enough to say, Okay, this one would be class about as skuncape, this would be a higher grassman, and it goes beyond location. So I have a very hard time, especially when it comes to Native American folklore, being able to just say yes, even though it's not hairy, Yes, it's a mae magwashi. Yeah, Like to me, like, it just feels a little sloppy.
Yeah, it feels a little lazy. It feels like, you know, because we had a few you know, sort of a similarity with the body shape. We mentioned rocks. The dover Demon had rocks, and we were kind of reaching. It really seems like someone like really wanted to say, oh, here's the historical accuracy. Ye, here's historical data evidence. Yeah, so I don't I don't know about that. That feels like a bit of a stretch.
Yeah, and it's behaved are like sure, it was seemingly benevolent, But the creatures that were talked about in this Native American folklore are more trickster s, like you're in our territory and you didn't pay us respects. So and these kids didn't pay their respects. Like these kids were either scared shitless and ran, or they like try to walk into their turf and then ran, like the kid who went down the bank.
Yeah, and again like the Native American story. Again, I am speaking about this with only the knowledge you just gave me, so there could be way more than I'm unaware of. But similar to other Native American legends and Lord that we've discussed on the show, they seem to cohabitate with the locals. This doesn't seem to coha. This seems like, oh, something saw me. I'm terrified. I need
to get away from this thing as soon as humanly possible. Now, Like it could be like a little nicky situation where he comes out of hell, he sees the car coming, he waves at the car, gets hit by the car and dies right away. Maybe it's like I hate I literally don't know what this thing is, so it's running from them. But again, these creatures you're describing seem like, okay they.
Are, Yeah, they exist in that area and continuously exists. Yes, because because the lore from Native American histories isn't just a one time event. Sure, I'm sure if you went back and looked at their histories and talked to elders, they would tell you about plenty of one time events. But when it comes to these creatures and these spirits, they like you said, cohabitate with them and they exist
one and the same. Like it's it doesn't make sense that this thing would just pop in, it to existence and then right back out.
Yeah, and there's a lot of you know, Native American legends and the lord there that's also attached to a lesson being learned. You know, respect your environment, respect people, and you know travelers in this instance, you know, treat them with respect, give them a gift barter, everyone goes along their way. Again, you could peel back the layers futures too. And I know we discussed this, we did the Portlock Bigfoot, and I think there's been a few
others in the River mermaids or something. I know we've had this discussion before.
So yeah, those were another version of water spirits.
Yeah. So again I don't see a lesson here from the Dover deal, Like what's that like, don't look in the woods ever or else something so you're driving or all, something will run from you. Like there's no lesson to be learned here. And again I feel like this is just sloppy investigative working. Again, I'm not taking a knock at the sky. I kind of him taking a knock.
At this guy. Well, we have to be careful because again we don't have the book. Yeah, it is something I am going to try and get and look into because I am just genuinely curious how he came to that conclusion. But the way, it's also a knock against some of these articles that have just been regurgitating.
This information consistently, and that's a huge problem.
Is especially with Native American folklore, like we see this time and time again when it comes to cryptozoology, especially like I just feel like people are actually double checking their sources or even questioning where where that connection comes from, because that's when I see someone connect it to Native American folklore. I want the original account, unbiased account from
their history, from their elders. I want to know how they feel about this thing before it was experienced in modern times.
Yeah. Now the counter to that, and I have heard people discuss this several times over that because they are so secretive, because they keep things within their know, within their communities, within on the reservations or what have you, you're less likely to hear those stories direct from the horse's mouth here. Yeah, and that's that's the counter. Does that make it correct? No, it doesn't make that correct
at all. It doesn't mean that you can just you know, pull straws and just make you know, connections that might not be there because it happens to fit a close geographical location.
Have you asked?
That?
Is one thing I want to implore if you write articles, if you are speaking on topics like this, I know we kind of like got super sidetracked, but have you even tried to ask?
Yeah? I mean you're asking the right question of the wrong person, because usually I would like to think I try and follow up to the source of at all possible. Yeah, I mean, if.
It's something to be cautious about and conscious about as well.
Yeah, but I can definitely say that I do see some comparisons here with the Kelly story. I see. I mean, there's a lot of overlap here with a bunch of different stories. What I would really like to know is were the Men in Black involved at all? At you know what I'm saying. But anyway, what are your thoughts on the Dover Demon.
I think it's a very interesting case. I think it's always interesting to see the obsession for these one time events because you know, with Mothman it was kind of similar, but it has supposedly happened since then. Yeah, and that there were continuous sightings for months in Point Bat in the surrounding areas. So a one and done one night stand with the cryptid.
Look, I'm not saying it just.
Sounds like a really bad romance.
I'm not saying. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, That's all I'm saying.
Okay, that's that's crazy.
With that being said, I have got to get back to final Fantasy. I have nothing real else to add unless you do. I do not well. With that being said, then I think we're not to add the Dover Demon, who wasn't really a demon to our never ending but are always growing.
Tails from the dark.
They are thought about.
The general is angling of the complex starting something. Sometimes the first flight will
Be seeing everyone A digital gagical fight