Our Strange World With Tyler Strand

Hmm, he was cold Cold, that was the name. He was cold. Hm. What's going on up there? Could be the most important event in history now, I am becoming back the destroyer of worlds, I said. I hope this is close to hell is all never again. Hello and welcome to the Tales to the Dark podcast. I'm your host Bob. You're with my cost Brittany live in the studio. Hey guys, what's up,

Brittany? How are you doing today? I'm doing good. The colder weather has got me feeling a little down, but I'm very excited for what we have in store today. Yeah. So, uh, I don't want to waste too much time, you know, but uh, I do want to just put out real fast. If you guys missed it over on Patreon, we did a pretty lengthy update on podcast. Yeah, well we kind of went through like where A, where we been be, what's been going on,

all that kind of general housekeeping stuff. So if you guys are patrons or you guys want to join and support us over at patreon dot com slash Tales from the Dark, you can check it out over there. But with that being said, miss Brittany, I think we just need to hop in this interview because this is one that has been a long time coming and I think people are really excited for I think so too. Well, all right, miss Brittany. We were joined by Tyler Strand. Tyler, how are

you doing today, sir? I am doing awesome. I'm and I'm honored to be here. So thank you for inviting me out to your podcast. No. Absolutely, And it's kind of funny. We were just kind of talking before we started to record here about the strange synchronistic way that kind of brought you to Tales from the Dark, which was literally we were introducing, you know, some friends of ours to hell youer and I was driving back to Missouri to go pick up our cats, and all of a sudden,

I looked down at my phone. It says Tyler Strand heard of when my messages, and I was like, what, Oh no, that's funny. So, you know, we definitely appreciate you taking the time. I know it's been a pretty hectic, so I do want to kind of touch base real fast because some people might have just missed it. This episode's coming up Monday, and your Goblin lottery, so to speak, just ended. Can

you kind of walk us through. What the Goblin Lottery was, You're gonna have any more of those in the future or was this like a one time it just happened to work thing. So it's funny you bring it up. So the Goblin Lottery was just kind of a term that I came up with on the spot because I didn't quite know how to frame the chaos of it all in a positive light. So I figured it would be maybe more fun for people to kind of view it as a sort of game, because it

kind of is a lottery. So what the Goblin Lottery was, which I just finished this yesterday, is I'm actually, unbeknownst to I think quite a few people that might even be familiar with Hellier, I actually am the creator of the creature you see on the poster art for that docu series. So the Goblin that you see on that poster art is actually a sculpture that was hand crafted out of clay, and I created it years ago. I actually

created that sculpture. Funny enough, before Hellier was an idea for filming. However, that sculpture was made with that case in mind. I actually sculpted that before I even knew who the new Kirks were, which is kind of funny, but I was familiar with their interviews that they had done previously that

talked about these strange emails that came in. So between the Hopkinsville Goblin incident and the Hellier case, I sculpted this creature that was kind of an amalgamation of these different elements, which is why when you watch Hellier, the person

who began this kind of journey, this mystery character named David. He sent these emails and these photographs talking about these creatures that he believed were coming out of an abandoned mind shaft at the edge of his property, and these creatures were terrorizing his family at night, doing odd stuff like stealing children's toys and

shoving Christmas wreaths in the mailboxes. And by the time this gentleman allegedly witnessed these creatures for himself, the way that he described them and the way that they sort of look like in these few blurry photographs that he allegedly took, they sound almost more like gray aliens, which is interesting when it's framed in a subterranean sense. So he talks about how they had small, round bird like eyes and thin, lipless mouths. He doesn't really mention a presence of

ears. But when you take that account and you compare it to the Hopkinsville Goblin incident, which occurred in the nineteen fifties on the western end of Kentucky, they sounded very similar, very similar antics, so to speak. So the Hopkinsville Goblins, those had very prominent ears when you look at these kind of witness sketches in the way that they were described. So I took it

upon myself to kind of make an amalgamation where I scaled those down. I made proportions a little more realistic, to look like something that you might see in nature, while retaining the descriptions that David gave of the eyes and the lips, but generally making something that both had a great alien type feel to it, but also something that kind of has a strange fay like feel to

it without you know, keeping a sort of vagueness to the form. So I sculpted that creature, and I actually molded that original sculpture, which is what I make replicas of through casting. I cast them by hand, I paint them by hand, and there are these little busts that I create, So they became a sort of collector's item amongst people who enjoy the docuseries, and every so often I'll make reproductions of it from the original molding and I

sell them. So the other day I had a very finite amount of them that I just finished. I had ten of them, and I know there's a lot of people who have wanted them, so to keep things fair, I sort of titled it the Goblin Lottery, and I had first come, first serve, and I had everyone send me a message if they're interested in purchase at precisely eight pm Eastern Standard time, and whatever the internet or the algorithm decided was the first ten people to enter those messages are the ones who

receive them. So that's I just finished that, so still working through it, I suppose. Well. I absolutely love that. I also love the term Goblin lottery because it again the synchronicities have just been piling up. It reminds me the first time we went to meet Geraldine Sutton Smith in this weird way, I just kind of a shot her of message. I said, Hey, I'm potentially working on this filming project project piece, would you be

available for an interview? And Geraldine and all of her amazingness, which you're like, yeah, come to my house. Here's my address. And I was like, oh wow, very cool, okay, perfect. So we make the drive and we we go and do a little interview with Geraldine, like in her kitchen, which was just awesome. And my favorite, my favorite policy was her twenty cats, and I was just sitting there love it on every single one of them. I was in heaven. I was in

cat heaven right there. I swear, Oh that's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. So we we go down. We talked to Geraldine and at the end, she gives us these uh, you know, the little Hopkinsville Goblin figurines that she makes, and she hands it to me. I flip it over. She's like, oh, well they're all numbered. They have certificates of authenticity, so no one has the same one. And of course, by

happenstance, mine was number ninety three. And oh that's incredible. Yeah, And I'm like fresh off my us and you know, it was one of those things like I thought it hit the lottery. So when I saw Goblin lottery come across Instagram, like that's got to be like one of the like because no one knows that story. I don't even I've really told that on the podcast before, so it was really think if you did, it was way early on. So yeah, that's very very interesting. Yeah, oh,

that's that's very very cool. You know what's funny. I actually own one of those myself and I had the so you'll find this detail very interesting. And I don't think many people are aware of this, but this is something that came about before we had even checked the maps to find straight lines

on all these pinpoints they go across the US. One of the first things that sort of tipped me off to that kind of strangeness is back in twenty seventeen during the solar eclips that occurred here in the US, the total solar eclips. What's really interesting about that is that total solar eclips actually happened on the exact anniversary date of the Hopkinsville Goblin incident, and Hopkinsville itself is actually on the path, like perfectly on the path of totality for where that total

solar eclipse occurred. So when I traveled down into Kentucky in twenty seventeen, this was all pre hellier. I was actually witnessed two of the solar eclips on the Sutton Farm really on the anniversary date of when that happened, which I find very curious. So I was actually able to meet Geraldine for the first time when I traveled there, and I was able to secure one of her pajama goblins. Oh yeah, she so is by hand. We have

like seven of her goblins at this point. It's we're basically fay ourselves because we have so many trinkets. It's not even funny. But no, I remember where I was too. I completely forgot that there was a total solar eclipse. I was in the mountains of western North Carolina up on one of the ridges and parkways. I've never been there before, and we watched it. That's really cool. I didn't know. Wow, I didn't know that was on the anniversary of the Hopkinsil Goblins. Yeah, it was very strange,

very strange timing. And that was one of those things that's like, huh, where does this? Does something like this happen in other areas? You know, Is there's something to do with these these sort of lines, you know. I always thought that was kind of curious, and I anticipated it because even before twenty seventeen, I became aware that it was going to land on the anniversary date. I think like two years prior to it happening,

like probably back in either twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen. I ended up finding out that it was going to happen, so it was just kind of waiting waiting for that to occur, and it was quite the adventure I drove. I drove from Western Pennsylvania where I currently live, eight hours straight starting at midnight, and I rolled up to the event as the sun was rising, so there were like two days of not sleeping by the time I spent

all day there, and then I got trapped in Kentucky. Funny enough, because there were so many vehicles leaving this small town at one time that it became one of those blocked bottleneck areas that I ended up hearing that it took people eight hours just to leave Hopkinsville. I ended up having to actually crash at a gas station because traffic was so bad. It was so built up. I uh so I got stranded there. Believe it or not, it

just sounds like unestly, it was very bad. I was going in out of consciousness while waiting for a place I could pull off because I was I was so tired. I was so exhausted from the heat and everything. But it was very beautiful. It was very eerie. It was the first time I had ever witnessed a total solar eclips and as of yet the only time

actually, uh, And it was very strange. It was one of those moments where, given the the time and place, I wasn't quite certain if that would have some kind of strange effect, I guess, but it was. It was very beautiful to witness, but also very eerie to be there when it happened. Well, what's crazy about that as well, is it just so happens because it's one small ring that goes around the entire Earth that

you can actually see the full total solar eclipse. So it just happened to be on the same day of the Hopkinsville Goblins, and it just so happened to be visible, extremely visible in the area where it happened. Like that's that's a very one in a million, one billion kind of chance. Yeah, it was very strange, and there's seems to be abundance of those strange things that line up in that way. Anomalies in general definitely bring out a

lot of high strangeness. So it's very strange, but yeah, it was almost it's pretty much perfectly in the center of the path of totality from when that happened. So there were like millions of people that were in that general area in Kentucky, let alone a lot of people that were at this event that was taking place just to celebrate the Hopkinsville incident, which is you know

where I was at. So it was very unique and that's why, like I knew I needed to travel out there because it was such a once in a lifetime kind of opportunity to immerse myself in that one moment, and it was worth it. It was a good memory for me. That's that's absolutely incredible. So I want before we get too deep into Kentucky because I know

that's where this podcast is going to head very quickly. Yeah, I do want to talk about your special effects background, because I always find it interesting to look at these little quips and growing up in the nineties, I kind of had this conversation with Brittany about whether or not this is true. I feel like nineties early two thousands was that like last Golden Area era rather of

special effects makeup, and I was kind of doing some digging. I wanted to get your opinion as well as you know, figure out your special effects background on Joel Heineg specifically because you know, we know his father, we know the Predator series. Now we have these sightings from Ryald, West, Virginia, Lima, Ohio, all over Kentucky of these predator like cloaked beings. Do you find that more than a synchronousy like do you think maybe his

dad told them something in passing? And then we have the modern predator that we know. Oh that's interesting. So when you talk about these predator type sightings, are you referring to this kind of like invisible form that people see shifting around or does this look more like physically like when you're able to see it in the film? No, like like the type of being they see them in trees or they'll see them like yeah, yeah, like a distortion,

that clear distortion. I've heard of those incidents. And you know what's funny with that question is it brings up a lot of interesting speculation that I think you could look at from two opposite ends. And this is something that I'm always kind of grappling with myself when it comes to looking at how pop culture affects the forms these things take, so it's not necessarily a popular theory

at the moment, at least not amongst the majority. But my stance on these various forms that this phenomenon takes is that even though I think there are elements that tend to repeat, and one could look at some aspects of evidence left behind as being proof positive that they were nothing but physical, I don't

necessarily agree with or believe that these things are entirely physical. I think they're physical when they're physical, and then I think they're more like ghosts when they're not, which is why I think it's so difficult to nail them down, let alone find them or capture them, you know, in the various forms and ways that people try to And with that kind of speculation, I think there's an abundance of evidence out there to suggest that these things can even look

different depending on who's looking. Even if someone is standing shoulder to shoulder, two people can have a sighting of something that's outside of themselves, but that

thing that they see can look wildly different. You know. An example I always bring up is I know a husband and a wife who were witnessed to a UFO event over Lake, Michigan, and when they saw this UFO fly in front of them, the wife saw what looked like a giant, luminous jellyfish like object swim through the air, while her husband, who was standing right next to her, did not see that at all. What he was witnessed to was a giant thunderbird like sighting. And that's interesting because when you

look at areas of high strangeness, you will find big bird sightings. And when I say big bird sightings, I don't mean like, oh, here's a turkey vulture. They're like these giant, larger than life, larger than

possible birds that are just historic, yeah, prehistoric looking yeah. And you find that, and it's and it's frustrating in a way when you see the way pop culture has dictated the way people think about these things, because I think there's a lot of people who hear sightings or hear about sightings of big birds and they throw it in the cryptid bin and they're like, well, this is a cryptid and it's physically out there, it's an unknown animal.

And I don't agree with that. I don't think any of these things are unknown animals. And I don't think they're just out there waiting to be captured by a fisherman's net or a trail camera. I think we're dealing with something that can take many forms. I think it's more a cult in nature. I think it's more like a ghost, and I think those forms are partially, not completely, but can be partially dictated by our own set of symbols

and our own state of mind. That's just my speculation. So when it comes to something like the Predator and placing it in the viewpoint of say pop culture, like an existing monster, I think that opens up a whole other can of worms with that angle, And I think that angle is part of

why we see monsters the way we do. I don't doubt that the monsters we create for entertainment, even if they stemmed from fiction, I don't doubt that some of those forms may actually repeat or end up being witnessed by people having an actual occurrence. And I think it's because those forms are in the

zeitgeist people that kind of stuff is on people's minds. A good example of this, even though this is a whole other can of worms, there are a lot of strange sightings of monsters that when people encounter them, they're actually wearing flannel shirts. And there are incidents that I've heard from people like my friend Tim Renner. He's interviewed people who have had sightings of something like a werewolf and that thing was wearing a flannel shirt, you know, and we

see that. You know, that's like very much like a Hollywood monster trope. So I think someone could go, well, what came first a chicken or the egg? Or does does this prove that it's just in someone's head because they watched a monster movie? Like, I don't think that's the case. I don't think that means it's false, but I think it shows evidence that there are elements of these things that latch onto what's in the collective mind

of people. So I don't doubt that something even like Predator and that kind of cloaking device, you know, is something that carries over. And when we talk about these kind of unknown things taking any kind of form, you know, what's so symbolic of that or other than something that is just translucent

and vague and generalized. So whether or not he was inspired by something that maybe he was witnessed who I can't say, but I think there's elements as well as how we create our monsters that like the people who make monsters are

also people who are tapping into a kind of collective idea. And I think there's a lot to the formation of mind monsters, even when fictionalized, that still come from a place of like one's own natural unconscious, And I think our unconscious also has these forms inside of it, the same way this phenomena has. So I don't think we even have to look at one necessarily causing the other, because I think they both cause each other at the same time.

They're both an aspect of nature. Our imagination is an aspect of nature, and I think these things, whatever they are, are also plugged in and connected to those aspects of our imagination. So I think someone could go back and forth all day and go, well, what came first, the chicken or the egg, you know, And I don't think there's going to be a clear answer there. I think it goes back and forth and it repeats a lot, like how two magnets attract each other. And I think

creativity is of that same fabric. So I don't doubt and it's not a shock to me that people are seen forms that imitate or are reminiscent of modern pop culture monsters, you know, But I don't think that makes them false,

and I don't think that means it was in their head. I just think it furthers that discussion, and it furthers that stance that I just laid out, that we're dealing with something that's more complex than the rigid flesh and blood barriers that we've placed around these sort of things in their separate categories.

Air quotes well to expand on that as well. When it comes to the dial and all its mind with the Kampollion, you know, everything that we're talking about on that, you know, and a lot of these theories and ancient theories that have been talked about and philosophies have been passed down through generation

generation. You know, people say that everything that ever was and everything that ever will be is all connected to the one mind and the hive mind and hive mind of consciousness and subconsciousness, and to be able to act sense that

would be the key downlocks the universe. But if we really are connected on that kind of level spiritually, then it would make sense that people will be able to pull from that collective knowledge and manifest and create these beings, these monsters whatever that come from right where we're at our own reality, we just

can't see them. Yeah. Sure, And I think there's even you know, for people that find those kinds of topics hard to digest, like when we even bring up, you know, spirituality and these kind of mental aspects of it. I think there's even a more naturalistic way one could view that if that's maybe you know, not in their wheelhouse in the sense that like, I don't, I don't think that sort of collective is anything other than natural. And we see evidence of this in just the form's nature takes itself.

And a good example of this is I find it infinitely fat fascinating that there are animals that replicate the forms of other animals to evade their own natural

predators. So an example I always try to bring up is like there are moths and butterflies that when they expand their wings, the tips of their wings actually have the form of what looks like a snake on them, or the color, yeah, the color of a snake, but but literally there's one that it looks like the head of a snake, it's eye and everything it mimics the form of a snake, even though it's a completely separate organism evolution in some way, shape or form, there is something in that ethor that

even if you want to talk about the selective breeding and evolution of what allows something to survive and carry on traits, we still have to look at nature and accept that there are things that might not even be aware of the forms they take, and yet they're mimicking something completely separate from themselves. And to think that we as human beings are separate from that, I think is very ignorant, a very ignorant stance, which is why that even opens up interesting

discussions and we talk about where our ideas of mythology come from. When we have repeating stories and we have repeating folklore. You know, I really do believe there's a space in our own DNA that has these forms in it. I think imagination itself is a product of our natural environment and a product of the earth itself. So I think there's bigger questions that can even be asked where it's like, why do we have mythological forms? And when we see

those mythological forms again, what came first chicken or the egg? Is it really us manifesting things outside of ourselves with our own imagination, or do we have those imaginations because there's an element of us, that primal element that we don't tap into consciously all the time, that is just aware of the things that are out in the world and we get glimpses of that through imagination,

you know. So it's you know, I think all of that is present, and we see that that's present even by just observing wildlife, you know, in the forms they take. You know, the fact that there's insects that mimic the forms of leaves. You know, we're talking about two completely separate forms of living organisms on the planet that have nothing in common with themselves,

and yet we see mimicry happen often in nature. So when we talk about mimicry being an element of the supernatural, like, it doesn't make mimicry a supernatural element that's all stuffed terrestrial to your own planet. I just don't think people have that overview of it, which is why they ignore that or they place these extra terms on things as being supernatural or unnatural. I don't think any of this stuff is unnatural or let alone outside the realm of what

we already see as a physical truth in our own ecosystem. But you know, obviously there's stranger elements that we don't grasp. Given where we fall on that scale, I guess you know there's I think there's still a lot of mystery, and I think we as living organisms still have a lot of our own blind spots that regardless of how advanced we think we are, we're still

just one small animal with its limited knowledge base. That doesn't mean there aren't other animals out there that can know and see and do more things than what you're capable of, the same way we can do and see more things than what certain animals are capable of. I think all living things have their blind spots, and I think that's why these monsters that we talk about seemingly pop out of the fabric, out of nowhere, and that we try to overrationalize

it by saying, oh, well, it must be from another dimension, or it must be from space. You know, a fish that doesn't know about human beings on the surface would say the same thing about us. But we're still from one place. And I like to think that these things, as supernatural as we believe them to be, are in fact likely terrestrial to our own human condition and our own planet. I don't think these things are coming from anywhere other than here, if you were to ask my personal opinion.

But I think the only reason why people speculate that they don't is because of the ignorance that we prescribe ourselves with how high and mighty we believe ourselves to be. Well, one thing I definitely want to add it to that before I pass it on to Bob is the fact that we are actively during this day like today, we are actively discovering new information, new civilizations, new everything that we thought we knew about our evolution, about other ancient civilizations,

about everything about beliefs and gods. New gods and things like that are also being found. We are actively discovering who we are as humans on a terrestrial level. So when you combine that with the ignorance of that, you know, supernatural might not actually be here, might be in space, or it doesn't exist at all. You do have to have kind of an open mind because we don't even know who we really are. Nothing is set in

stone. We're constantly in a state of discovery. And you know, meant in my opinion as well, and you know, I know belief is the enemy, but you know, mental mental development and mental stimulation when it comes to the paranormal, supernatural, cryptids, UFOs, whatever is the next step in my opinion, that we personally have been exploring and looking into. I

agree with you one hundred percent on that. I really do think that's going to be something that really opens a lot of the necessary dialogue that I think we're lacking. I do think mental phenomen enough and those aspects of the self that we don't that we still don't really understand about ourselves are a key component to the way these things present, even though you know they're seemingly outside of us. It's just it's just I believe some way they're wired, you know,

And but it doesn't mean that's not how we're wired. I think we are, and that's why we have these experiences. But it's it's like some aspect of ourselves we just don't quite understand fully and it's a mystery. So by default it's going to be confusing to people, you know, when we when we come across these things. But but I really do think it all has its place in the grand scheme of things and the way the world works.

It's just a fraction of that world that I don't think we're very well versed in, even though on some primal level, I think we have those elements in us and we have continually interacted in those ways. It's it's just a complicated thing. It's exists in a different pattern of thinking than the pattern that we need to rely on to get through our normal, everyday lives. And I think that's why it's hard for people to really get wired into this

stuff or grasp it in the way that they need to. It's complicated, and it's okay to understand that. Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, there is a lot of mystery, and I think I think the healthiest thing for us to do is just to understand we really don't know a whole lot about these things. Even though there are people who can

know a lot with what's available, it's still so finite. At the end of the day, it's a mystery, and I think it's far better healthier to acknowledge that we don't know what these things are and to be open to understanding that we don't really know anything. I think we'd make a lot more progress if we spend more time acknowledging how much we don't know, rather than trying to be so emboldened to convince is that we do know what we're talking

about as and I see that a lot. There's a lot of people who speak in absolutes when they talk about what they think this stuff is, and it just comes off as silly to me. It comes off as like I'm listening to a fantasy fiction writer tell me about something, even though there's fantastical elements. It's I think there's a way you can do that, and I think there's a healthy way to have certain biases about what these things might be.

But I also think you can do that while retaining that there is a mystery there that even with what we do know about it, it's still not an answer. Oh one thing I was just gonna hop in real quick. One thing that we talked about consistently on the podcast is that there are no experts in this field. There are people that know way more than we do. There are people that probably know more, way more than you do, Tyler. But to call yourself an expert is to claim that you've mastered something

in a field, and that's just not possible. In my onion for anything paranormal, cryptid, anything to do with high stranges with your students, and we're still constantly learning and adapting to what new high strang has to bring and has to offer. Sure, I can agree with that. I mean, I do think one could say that, you know, when it comes to knowledge base there, yeah, you know, there's certainly people who know a lot, and there's people like if you had to put those terms on you

could. But at the same time, I think in more than one walk of life, I think it's the best stance you can have is acknowledging that you're forever a student, because that it's only when you think you're not that's when you start to lose it. That's when you start to lose I don't know that's not necessarily a sense of wonder, but I think you fall off the path. I never expect to not be a student when it comes to

this. I don't think there's ever going to be a time in my life where I'm going to go, wow, I figured it out, guys. You know. So it's like, I think it's so healthy for people have that mindset, and I think it keeps you on the right path, you know, it's it's a complicated topic and it's infinitely interesting, and there's no matter how much you dig into it, there's not I don't think there's enough time in one human life span to ever be able to learn at all.

And that's another like difficult thing to acknowledge and grasp is like you can get far and you can learn a lot, I think, but I don't think you're ever going to be able to see the whole picture, because I really do think a lot of this stuff goes far beyond the time that we're given

here individually. No, I would completely agree with that, And I want to kind of ask you what got you into this field of work, specifically when it comes to the paranormal, because one thing about how you're that stuck out to me is someone who's been a ghost hunter for fifteen years, however long it's been. You know, again, in the beginning, it was just me my friends talking to a dollar General quarter hoping that ghosts would talk

back. So you can't really count that necessarily, But what got you into the paranormal? And then as a solo investigator, what goes through your mind? Do you feel like you're better off that way or it's just lack of options. There's not a lot of weirdos around that want to go out and do this with you, so you found it easier to kind of stick with yourself when it comes to your investigation. Well, to start with the latter question, when it comes to like doing certain things alone, it's not that

I necessarily think it's better to do things alone. Like I'm always open, you know, to working with people you know, and obviously have, but at the same time, I think, given my stance and the viewpoints I have on this phenomenon, now, the big difference with me when it comes to a lot of people who you know air quotes investigate these things or actively pursue them, is I am no longer like this might sound, this might be shocked some people listening, but I am no longer invested nor interested in

trying to prove anything, So I don't I'm not in technically investigating anything. I can count on one hand how many times I've done anything that I can consider an investigation, Like I think you can say Hellier is an investigation since it required digging into stuff and trying to learn more things. But in the grand scope of things, it's like all that digging is just learning more about the phenomena. I don't necessarily think the way people have been led to believe

one proves the paranormal or the kind of evidence people seek. I'm very skeptical of our capability of doing that. That's not to say that there hasn't been things captured, but I think it's very rare, and I think one could make an argument that when it is, it was done intentionally by whatever these things are. So well, when I'm exploring places like more than anything, I consider myself an explorer rather than an investigator, because I think it's more

true to the the stance I take. You know, I'm always immersed in areas of strangeness, and I'm always immersed in places that can come with their experiences. But I'm not investigating. There's nothing for me to investigate. It's just things that I'm aware of, and I go to places where I can study it or become closer to it. I'm not out to capture the next hot piece of video or the next EVP or convince someone that this is real, because in the end, I don't even care anymore about if people believe

in this or not. I don't think everyone ever will, and I think it's I think certain people are cut out for it more than others, and I don't think it's necessarily healthy for everyone who tries to pursue it. I think there's certain people who act as better translators for this phenomena than others, and I think that's part of the problem we see with like some pop culture elements, where these things get really misconstrued. So for me, I'm more

than anything. I'm an observer of this phenomena, and I place myself in scenarios where those things can fold naturally, and should they unfold naturally, I will deliver those things to whoever is willing to listen. But it's not my job to investigate or convince anyone otherwise, Like I don't need to investigate things I already believe in. I'm not seeking an answer anymore. I'm seeking better understanding, but I already have answers. I know the stuff is out there.

I'm not trying to be convinced, but I think there's a great There's a vast difference between learning and reading about a thing and experiencing a thing, And I think the ones who are granted the opportunity, for better or for worse, to experience these things have a much greater understanding than the people who spend their lives reading about it. And that's why I place myself in a lot of places, and why I'm always exploring a lot of places, even

if I'm alone. It's not that I'm like doing some formulaic thing where I have a recorder or I have a camera. It's understanding at this point that it's through experience that can give me a deeper understanding than all the books I read. And that's kind of the stance I take with all this stuff, like I don't have I don't have any one mission statement with it, Like I'm open to the unexpected avenues that will open up from the pursuit, and

there's always unexpected things. I guess I've just I've detached myself from trying to predict where the next thing will lead, whether that be maybe cap evidence, or whether that be delivering a good piece of information to the public that they can consume, or whether that be just putting me down a different path in my own life. I think all those things collide. So I've almost become

more free in a way where I don't have expectations. So I think that's why it's easier to be alone, because there's no expectations being put upon me by anyone else. Because most people have their own expectations because they're on their own path. So the long winded answer to that comes together right at what I said there is that I want to be free of expectation, because I think once you're free of expectation, that's when phenomena actually occurs. And that's

a very difficult thing to practice. And I think that's something one could look at through a spiritual lens or an esoteric lens. And I think that's why most people don't experience things. It's because they want it too badly. They never reach the point where they accept that it's okay to let it unfold when it's supposed to or when it wants to, and that you're not the one in control of it. You're not the one who's going to go out and

just capture it because you have a device in your hand. I think when you unmarry yourself from those ideas, that's when these things become more aware, and they become more aware of you and you of it, and they pop out of the woodwork, which is why, like I'm not I'm not so sold anymore on being the one who's distracted by devices and going out with a

mission to capture something. I place myself in scenarios where the unexpected can happen, and it can happen in secrecy because this phenomena value secrecy, and the only way that I can become the closest to that is by being alone in lonely places. I guess is my stance on that. So I know it's like a long winded answer, but I hope that made sense. But when

it comes to I'm sorry, what was the first question? The first part of that question, it was just literally what got you into investigating in the first place? Right, right? So it's funny too, like even that is something that's a little different because you know, I understand a lot of people get into this because they had an experience, you know, whether they were young or you know, regardless of age. But for me, I've

always just been interested in it because like why wouldn't I be. It's the most fascinating topic one could ever like think about, Like, like we're talking about this grand hidden thing that permeates a reality let alone affects people every day, so to me, I always just had a natural interest in it, even though I did have experiences when I was younger, like I've had experiences

that are very strange that I've not even publicly spoken on yet. So I could have used that sort of excuse to justify why I'm into it, But the reality is, whether those things happened or not, I still would have been into it. And I think that's also a part of that message from the second half of the question is like, I think these things tend to pop out of the woodwork more when someone genuinely has a thirst for knowledge rather

than just experience, even though that can go hand in hand. You know, I'm not trying to say I'm not someone who wants that next experience, but I also know I'm someone who genuinely had moments in their life where I was so thirsty for answers, so thirsty to know something else that's outside of

the mundanity. I think it's that curiosity that summons these things forth, and I think that's why there's a lot of people who on a surface level, whether they're ghost hunting or looking for big Foot or looking for UFOs I think a lot of them are too experience driven, where they only want the thing

to happen to them rather than the answers to happen to them. And I think that's also what kills it, because I really do think there is a deeper, hidden, secret element to why these things appear to those they appear to. And I think the seeking of knowledge is the fabric they're made of, which is why they pop out. But that's just my speculation, you know, in my own experiences. I guess if that answers the questions,

No, it absolutely does. And the one thing I wanted to add to that as well is, you know, talking more on the occult side, is too expect will bring about feelings of either excitement or disappointment if you have a narrowed viewpoint of what you think should happen, and that's to be polarized. And sure, we're talking about the middle pillar ritual here. You want to be in a completely neutral state of being, of mind, of feeling for you to participate or to execute any kind of ritual. And I think

that's the same applies for any kind of investigation or exploring. Is when you go in with a neutral state of being that becomes a mold a you know, handful of clay that the phenomenon can then mold into what you're supposed to see or sure, yeah, and I can get behind that. I agree, there's elements of that, you know. And that's not to say,

you know, I don't get excited, clearly I do. But you know, in the years that have passed, you know, in me getting deeper with this, I only become more and more reserved, and I've learned durin it in a bit more. But it's still like, you know, but even excitement though I don't doubt though there's still elements where the phenomena does feed off of that too, or does feed off of fear. I think it also at times requires those things as well, you know, but it's it

is. There is something to be said though about just expectation in general that I think it blinds people to the more subtle things it presents. And I think that's one of the most important aspects of why you shouldn't have expectation, because I think there's a lot of people who've probably had really weird things happen in their life, but they were so expecting of only seeing like the big thing which validates it that they never caught on to the weird little synchronicities that

popped up beforehand. Well, think of it like horse visors, Like when you have expectation, you have a narrow way of thinking because that's how you think it's going to go. And you could absolutely be excited just for the sake of being excited, and that doesn't make you polarized. What I think makes you polarize is the fact that you have a vision of what you think you're going to experience or see, and that can either a manipulate you how

you interpret what you see and manipulate that idea, or be manipulated. It's the energy around you, as it very well could I mean theoretically sure, hypothetically sure to change whether you do see something, what you do see, or how you interpret it. So that's that's kind of how I was feeling about that. But yeah, absolutely I'm with you. I'm with you one

hundred percent, and I'm with you one hundred percent on that. But like I said, also, I think there's also so much there's so much subtle phenomena that comes with this stuff, which is why, like you know, when it comes to not having expectations, like there's also this weird line. I think people need to learn to walk, which is like trusting in the little personal things that means stuff to you. And that doesn't mean like everything

is a sign. That doesn't mean because because I see the negative aspect of that too, where people lean too far into that, where every little fallen leaf on the ground means something, and I that's a tricky thing to navigate in of itself. But there's a lot of stuff that springs up around the

pursuit of this stuff. Not to use the word that we over use, but there are a lot of synchronicities that pop up, and I think those synchronicities can lead you to an understanding or lead to a story that's very strange that is actual phenomena. But it's not like you're seeing some kind of monster or you're having some big, completely supernatural event that's unexplainable. I think there's a lot of strangeness that happens that has a lot of plausible deniability behind it

due to the nature of the subtlety it presents. And I think that's part of that secretive nature that goes along with these things. And I think the people who are stuck in that mode of thinking of like, oh, it's only when I see a ghost that is the ghost of the experience I'm seeking. Like there's other forms of experience that a lot of people don't hear about, you know, Like I've had some of the most amazing supernatural experiences in

my local walmart because of strange things that have happened, you know. And it's like if I wasn't someone who was in that mindset to be receptive of the subtlety, the subtlety of strangeness that just permeates us all the time, that permeates reality all the time. I think a lot of people miss that because they're too busy chasing the big stuff. But the reality is the big stuff. It's not that it doesn't happen or won't happen. I just think

that stuff is rare and it happens for some kind of reason. I think when it's meant to, and it will happen more if you allow the little things to happen first. And I think too many people jump headfirst into the deep end of the pool because they want to see the vast spaces of this stuff, but they haven't learned how to swim, and they drown, and

they drown. Their ability to witness this phenomenon like you need, I think, I think people need to come to an understanding that there's a gradient scale to the immensity of how these things present and there's probably a lot of little subtle strangeness that presents itself in day to day life that gets ignored. So there's almost like a certain kind of sensitivity that I think is gained over time of just being curious and speculating and thinking, and that also comes with that.

To go back to that question you guys had about why like being alone sometimes is because like you're only at your most sensitive when you're alone because you're not putting on some kind of front or you're not engaging in some kind of social activity where you have to be completely present in a different way because there's someone else in your vicinity. I can be free to be vacant in a way when I'm alone where I don't have any any expectations or any expectations of

thought. There's a lot of times and I'm in the woods alone where my head is completely empty, and I might not know why I'm there. You know, that's part of the strangeness of it all. I'm in a lot of weird areas for a lot of strange reasons that I myself don't always know why I'm there, but I understand there might be a point to it, all the while not expecting something to happen. But I can't be so,

I can't be so untethered if I'm around someone. So I think that sensitivity and that that subtlety of allowing you know, things to happen in that way also benefits, you know, being alone sometimes. But that's not to say being alone is like to be all end all. It's just, you know, a personal thing that I think people should experience once in a while. Like even if, like if any of your listeners are exclusively people who ghost hunt with teams, like, that's all fine and good, and I'm not

trying to discredit anyone's methodology, geez. I think everyone comes to their own knowledge in their own ways, and I think they're all valuable. But I would encourage people to try and see how you feel and how many things you

go through when you are alone in a strange place. You know, do it safely, of course, don't do anything dangerous, but you go through so much mentally when you're alone, and that's something that like, you know, a personal change that I've seen in me in the last five years is like looking back and remembering how scared I was in the woods at night like five, six, you know, seven years ago, and now I can go into the woods with ease at night. That's not to say there aren't

moments where like that fear comes back. There are you know, there's still moments where, like you know, parent paranoia that comes in. But it is not an easy thing to do, to be able to go into the woods at night, And that's something that I don't think a lot of people even have experience in that all that changes you. I think the interaction and the willingness to push yourself into altered states of mind are also part of this

pursuit. And being in these places alone, whether people realize it or not, is still an altered state of mind that I don't think you can achieve when you're around other people. So it's an interesting experiment for your listeners to consider if they have the safe opportunity to do so. Well. That's something that me and Bob talk about a lot, and I'll let him explain that here in just a second. But I grew up born and raised in the

Appalachia Mountains, so I'm from western North Carolina. I know exactly what you're talking about back with fun. Oh yeah, trust me, we'll talk about that here soon. I know you had some weird experiences on Brown Mountain. My family's from Black Mountains, so pretty close by. But oh wow, how many colors do they come in? Kind out? For real? Literally looked at a color wheel and was like, Okay, this is what that's called. This is what that But yeah, no, we talk about that

a lot on the podcast. And it's so weird to have this conversation with you because it's like a speed run of like a combination of knowledge that we've shared with our audience and the experiences that they've been willing to share with us

as well. But what were you going to say? Well, no, I was just gonna say I absolutely love this because literally the other day, so Brittany comes up from Missouri, I went and bought some computer parts in Waverley, Ohio, which is an hour or so outside of Point Pleasant, relatively close to Chilicothee, Ohio, which has its own high strangeness and weirdness and missing person's cases, the whole nine. Yeah, I'm literally driving through

Waverley. I text Brittany. I'm like, hey, there's something up with this town. Couldn't put my finger on it, just something weird. I'm like, it reminds me of and I couldn't think of, like Summerset. That's that's what this reminds you of a summerset. So I text her like, I'm on my way back. She's I'm gonna take a quick nap. So I'm like, well, she's napping, I'm gonna go into the state park. That's literally on the drive, because that's what you do, you

know, when your fiance goes to sleep. You're just like, I'm not even gonna let her know I'm doing this. It's fine. Yeah, so normal Tuesday. Well, so I pull into the state park and I see this, uh, this old fire watch tower, and I'm kind of looking around. I'm like, oh, there's no sign to say I can't go up to the top of this watch tower. So I climbed to the top take some fun pictures, and I'm kind of just there. I didn't know why I was there. It just kind of felt like there was something to

this area. I'm sure you you know that feeling all too well. So I drive through it a little bit and I ended up telling Brittany like, hey, you know we did come back out here at night. Well, it turns out we had been to this town before, it had this conversation years prior, and it just I completely forgot for you know, one reason or another. We did a little Estes method session that was all well and good. We saw what we thought was some weird stuff out in the woods.

But that to me speaks to when you have that call of this, I have an opportunity to rive through during the daytime. It's safety. Go in the state park. I wouldn't recommend, you know, climbing fire watch towers. That's probably you definitely thought you were gonna get rested. You told me after, You're like, I know, I know someone should have come out there and told me to stop. But I stopped every three to four floors, like, look around, like, no one's gonna come get me.

You guys are gonna let me do this, Okay, That's that's fine. You're like, I was kind of hoping you would. The higher I got, the more I'm like, how bad do I want this? That's funny as you can see like the boards like falling through and have to walk on the railing. Yeah. Yeah, that was a that was a but it was a good time. It was a humbling experience. Yeah, but to kind of shift gears. But I want to I want to talk Kentucky. My heart's in Kentucky. Man. Yeah, I've grown from someone who

only ever drove the I seventy five corridor straight down to Knoxville. I had no idea Eastern Kentucky existed in the way that it does until I was twenty seven twenty. I mean, it's kind of funny. I make the joke that I, uh discovered myself in spirituality at twenty nine through high strangeness and uh we we we made our our. I kind of call it the paranormal, the cryptid pilgrimage. I kind of tweeted this at Greg and it was one of the first times he like interacted. I fanggirled out. I'm like,

holy, holy hell, this guy he knows I exist. But we went to Point Pleasant and then uh went down to Hell You're and we kind of before that, we went to Marietta Ohio and uh, yeah, I'm just gonna say Prestonsburg, but that's outside what is it Parkersburg than you But yeah, we went to Point Pleasant Parkersburg, then down to Hellyer. Yeah, so we kind of made the drive. But a few months later we made a trip down to Summrset with our friend Tyler Terry. Funnily enough,

that funny and the energy of you. He's very, uh, very skeptical. But we uh, we were kind of looking at the map of like places we wanted to visit and and funnily enough, we went to go and meet Kyle Kadell because we're gonna do an interview with him, and uh, we got sidetracked there because we found a house. I said, the call the FBI. This town's a cult. So of course I like break into the house. And the broad days did break That's a whole conversation. The

door walked in. Oh my god. So the the first night we drive out there, we find we you know, we happened to find a cave. And I'm not going to say the rogues. I don'tant a lot of people to go out there because it's not exactly the most safe area. And uh, we saw these weird lights dancing across the road and then Tyler, Terry and I we were obsessed over this cave. We didn't care about the lights in front of us. Brittany's la we can talk about it. It's

blocked off. Now, Okay, Well the cave that's on Strawberry Road outside of Somerset, Ah, Yes, yes, yes, So I want to know have you gone further back there? Because we made the decision that night we went to the back of the cave and uh, we felt the same rumbling. We heard what we thought were voices coming from deeper in the cave. We did find out through uh Jason Rudder, who's a cave expert for the state of Kentucky, that there is several bits of water that run through

that cave systems. That's that could explain the whispering voices that you might hear. But the rumbling is something true. But the rumbling was something that we both did experience. Have you gone further? Because I know, once you use the back of that cave, there's a pretty steep inclined you can climb

up and over, But I don't know what's much further beyond. There's something Yeah, well, i'll tell you, I'll tell you this much, and this is something that is absolutely true, but not something that would be readily out there in terms of information. Since that fairly as of we'll say this this year, this past year, I've come to confirm what I've already speculated about that cave and the ones that are near it. But that cave actually

connects to multiple that are undiscovered that no one's ever been inside of. So that area not only has that cave in particular, not only has creature sighting reports attached to it. In fact, there's other entrances that get into that cave. But since that time, with the use of some modern technology, it's been confirmed that there are other caves that go even further than what is accessible at least at this moment in time physically, that go way way into

that into the earth there. So there's a whole string of a hidden network that that connects to that people haven't been inside of yet. I'm sorry, I have to hop in because I love that because we there's another there's another cave, which this one's not blocked off, so we're not going to say the location, but it's the one that's underneath the bridge. That one, we went about as far into it as we thought you could go. Tyler went all the way back to the to the lower shelving in the back.

Yeah, only to find out within the last month or so that that one also is interconnected with other cave systems that but a collapse, but part of it collapse at one point. So interesting. Yeah, and that's something interesting. That's something that you know unless people are like say, studying it or maybe even going into them, and not a whole lot of people are aware. But when it comes to caves, there's there's a lot. It can

be common and it's interesting. It kind of adds to that, uh, that mystique and that mystery where there are a lot of caves that are confirmed to connect, uh, particularly a lot of the ones in Somerset in general connect to each other in different ways. And the way they know that not physically or when I say not physically is like you could they don't. They don't. Yeah, they don't connect in a way that like people necessarily know

or like can physically get into. But there's a lot of you know, experiments, people doing their studying these natural areas and hydrology where they'll inject or poor die uh a really potent die into the waterways to see where it flows uhha, and the look for resurgence areas. So like, there has already been studies conducted in those areas that show a lot of those caves connect because they've done the die tracing, so you know, die tracing is something cavers

do themselves even from time to time to see if there's possible openings. So they know a lot of those areas connect. But it also furthers to illustrate, you know, the mystery behind them too, where it's like, yeah, they connect, but there's always openings or the potential for chambers and such that people have never been inside of that. Who knows what they contain, you know. And and that cave that's under the bridge has a lot of weird holes in the wall that are like like you can put like an RC

car through them. And it actually really freaked me out when we first went there, because I was like, if something's gonna crawl that cave, it's gonna be a giant spider. No one, my luck siders and we don't talk about that, but I've actually crawled up into the ceiling inside that cave through one of those whole did you really? I know you didn't know, Yeah, and it led funny enough, it led to one of the earlier corridors that you're in, where like if you were to look way up into

the ceiling, you would have been able to see me up there. So like it's there are ways around, you know, there's a lot of different openings, you know in caves like that, a lot of different But that's absolutely so. I guess since we're kind of we kind of have arrived here, what were your thoughts as as season one kind of changed season two? So there was one thing in particular that drove me crazy about hell here?

And I've been meaning to waiting to ask you this one question. That big book that you referenced of newspaper clippings of cave sidings, UFOs and stuff. I think you got it at the Mothman Festival. Where the hell is that book? And why why did no one ever bring it up again? Well, I don't know, it just never really became I guess it just never

really became relevant again. But yeah, what's weird about that? It was a packet of reports and it's just really weird that kind of synchronicities that are revolved around that, because it's, uh, you know, sometimes I wonder if the whole point was just to have that phone call coming to like further some kind of strange moment, But yeah, it was kind of It was such an odd thing. So I don't know how many years back that would

have been. I can't. I don't know if that would have been twenty It's either it's probably like twenty seventeen Mothman Festival, twenty seventeen probably or twenty eighteen. I'd have to look at the date when they filmed. But yeah, I was at the Mothman Festival and I happened to run into this gentleman. I overheard him talking funny enough, which makes us kind of even weirder.

I was on the street and like anyone who's ever been to the Mothman Festival knows, it's just a madhouse's hundreds of people everywhere, even sometimes up until it's late, you know, and there's you know, and it gets dark out, and it was dark out, and there's this guy just talking to a group of people on the street about like how he had weird experiences

growing up in this sort of area. And funny enough, he originally some of these experiences happened to when he lived were around where I am right now, which is interesting. And I overheard him talk about how when he was young, he noticed the pattern that there would always be strange things involving caverns

where his experiences occurred. And he talked about how when he was a kid, he went inside of a cave that was at the edge of his property and he found pieces of a deer that were ripped a part, but they were laid out in like yeah, like the arms and legs, they were all like placed in a line. Yeah, Like very strange. And he talked about how he'd find like human like footprints in the cave, like bear

footprints, so really weird stuff. And he so like I ended up walking up to him, like I'm curious about this, you know, and I got to talking with him, and it was just so strange. This guy was older too. He was a truck driver at least that's what he used to do for a living. And he talked about how since he was a kid, because of his own experiences, that's what got him onto thinking like

maybe these things come out of caves. And he said since that time, Like as he grew up, he would collect odd reports that he heard about

that would revolve around mine's or caves, mine's caves or quarries. So this packet of reports, it wasn't a book, but it was like snippets from multiple books and like just random sources where whenever he would read some kind of paranormal book and it mentioned how this thing happened in a quarry or happened in your cave or a mind, he would take it out and add it to the packet. And this was all just a stranger that I just happened over here on the street. And I'm like, I'm like wow, I'm like

this is really interesting. I'm like, if you don't mind, I go, is there a way to get like a copy of this? And he's like yeah, sure, He's like give me your you know, info, And I got his number, and you know, after I got his info, you know, I didn't know if anything would come of it, and like, you know, after I left the Mothman Festival, it was like, I don't know, a week or two I want to say, like I probably say in the dock when it happened, but uh, it was

weird. I pulled up. I pulled up to my local gym, and I was just kind of sitting there in my car, and this weird thought popped in my head where I'm like, I wonder what that guy's up to. I should send him a message, or I should call him just to like get on it and stay on it. Otherwise, Like I had low expectations for ever getting this thing anyway. So I called the guy and he picked up right away, and he's like, wow. He's like, it's

so strange that you called me just now. He's like, as your call came in, he goes, I was literally texting you when you called me. And I'm like, well, that's weird, and he's like yeah, he's like I was literally just texting you to tell you that I sent it

out. So it was like because of that incident, I ended up I ended up calling the crew that just happened to be, you know, filming, you know, Season one, which that whole thing, Like I don't know how many people are aware of this, but like part of the reason why I'm not more, you know, you don't really see a whole lot of me in season one is like Season one wasn't even expected to happen.

You know, like I knew of the new Kirksen and we were on friendly terms then, but I was still you know, all getting to know everyone at that point, and when that project first started. I think from there end, it was just kind of like, well, let's just like roll

out there and kind of do recon just get a feel of it. But like, so they knew I was interested in this stuff, and they knew I had an interest in this for like years, but at the time, they didn't think it was going to be any kind of big trip or a big deal. So it's like, oh, hey, I don't worry about it, like we're gonna check it out. But that trip that they were

on ended up becoming like all a season one. So the fact that this kind of weird thing happened in this parking lot and that ended up having like a strange significance to this kind of weird est method session they were doing on that porch. You know, it is curious. That's always how it happens, isn't it. It's not going to be a big deal. We're just gonna go take a look. Nope. Right, the next three years of your life is going to be dedicated to Kentucky. Watch it for sure,

for sure. But yeah, so that's kind of you know, what's up with that packet. But you know that packet, it's not that it has like any groundbreaking information in it. You know, it's interesting that it exists for what it's worth and how it came to be, but there's nothing as of yet that's like jumped out, you know, in that accumulation of snippets that you know, is any kind of groundbreaking thing. So to answer your question, it's just like there wasn't really anything in it that pertained to the

case. You know, there wasn't like it didn't it didn't offer anything that was worth having, like a word blurb on you know that made the cut.

But it's you know, that's one of those things though that from the outside, I think it's hard, you know, for some people to understand when they watch a documentary though, it's like you're only really seeing snippets of like a multitude of conversations that you don't see, you know what I mean, Like like there's much more that happens off screen than what happens on screens.

Yeah, we did a documentary last year, same deal. We were there for fourteen hours and we condensed that into an hour long, you know, doc piece. So yeah, that's the something nobody gets to see. Now, this is a question that's been uh, it's been burning for a while for me. So when when season two kind of started popping off the way that it did, I have never resonated with an on screen character more than I did with you in that moment where you're like, no, let's

go right now, because because that's me. It's it's it's similar like when we went to Waverley here recently. It got in my brain and it lived there and it Yeah, we had Andy Colevin. We were having a conversation with me. He's like, yeah, I know where in Andrew Cold's house is. I'm like, yeah, send me the deats and he does. Six hours later, we're in rural West Virginia. No, that was like

record time for us. That was like three hours. Yeah, because yeah, because my fear was like, someone's gonna get there, spook the locals, it's gonna be a problem. I just want to see I want to see this. Does it feel similar to some of the other weird places we've been so Andy Covin sends us like, hey, this is where it is roughly. Actually, here's the GPS coordinates. So we're on our way and got to experience. So I felt I knew exactly how you felt. And

you're like, no, let's let's freaking go. I go. There's you know, nothing bad is gonna happen because you do kind of you remind me of me in that way where it's like, in that moment, the draw in the experience is so severe it nothing else seems to matter in that moment. Now granted, but like we just talked about, you don't need to see a lot of the off screen stuff. But the way that it was poor trade, which was you know you wanted to go write that second?

What was that? Like? Sure? I mean, and then that goes back to that thing, you know what I mentioned. It's like, you know, obviously I do get excited, you know sometimes and it's yeah, it's just that craving where it's like, you know, these things are already so rare, and they have something where it's like why would you wait? Like this it's telling you to go right, you know, And I still have elements of that, you know, sometimes I think you know, maybe

there's certain things I shouldn't have been waited for. But you know, but then other times, though, there's always a duality to that, where, at least at this point in time, after gaining more experience and more knowledge in these matters, I also think that there is something strange with the intention of like there's some things that are time released and they end up do happening

if you do. It's very contradictory. There's certain things that happen I think down the road that are meant to happen when you least expect them, and it's not maybe the best time to go right away, because it's like the phenomenon works in a very strange, non linear way, or at least not in the way that is immediate as a straight line in the way that we tend to think. But yeah, you know, like in those moments though, having all this so fresh, you know, it's like it's such a

you know, it's already such an exhilarating topic. It's like, why wouldn't I be obsessed with getting to see it? You know, like I wanted that experience so bad, you know, all those like imaginative thoughts, you know, enterugh, your head where it's like, am I gonna you know, are we gonna get there? Are we going to see like creatures crawling around inside of a cave? You know? You know, it's you get

you get into a really funny you know mindset, you know where. But you know, obviously, like I said, now, it's like elements or that of that are real back because I understand it's not so you know, cut and dry, but it's uh, you know, you still get those

spikes of excitement, and it's like it's very hard to ignore. You know, it's like a you know, it's beyond I don't want to use I don't think the word discomfort is necessarily the right word, but it is that that itching, that it's an itch that needs to be scratched and and and it makes you insane. Maybe you have to you want to see it. But you know, maybe that's just one of the hurdles of that practice of patience. Perhaps though maybe maybe it is gaining the ability to not give into

excitement, even though I think that's part of it. But in that moment, you know, however many years ago that's been now you know, that was certainly the case in that moment, you know. But I think that's what's interesting about these projects too, or at least just having something out there that you know, people I don't know are watching. You know. It's almost there's a lot of things that I think are hard for me to watch. And that even goes through just mundane things that I even just think or

write or whatever. Is like, you know, I'm always changing, I'm always growing. So it's like every every version of me that people think is out there is not the version of me I am. Now. You know, there's a lot that I've learned and I've grown from and and changed with, you know, as these as these years have rolled on, you know, and I'm certain that will continue. But yeah, in those moments, it was like we gotta go, You got to go right now, all

right, Tyler. So as we're getting towards the end of our time here, this question is on everyone's mind. Will there be a hell? You're three? And I know that you're not in control of your time frame, but will there be a hell? You're three? So people, because I the amount of people who ask me, Bob, I know that you kind of know Alan, can you ask him if he can, ask Greg if

he can ask Carl, are we gonna have Hell You're Three? Well, what I can say is that there are already things filmed for what probably would be in a Hell You're Three, So you know, I'm confident at some point there likely will be. But as of when, is still the mystery that is going to be unsatisfactory for all the curious minds until it, uh, until it unfolds. But you know, I don't think you know,

when it comes to Hellier. It's a weird, tricky thing where everyone always wants it, but it's one of those things where like the phenomena, it's like we got to let the actual phenomena dictate that too, you know. We there's certain strangeness that's you know, since you know, certain strange developments, but it's just something. These things take time, you know, and it's it's less about it's funny, you know, saying like oh, i's ask Carl or ask Greg. It's like none of us are in control of

when there's gonna be a Hellier three. That's the thing in control of Hell You're Three is the phenomena if it wants to knock and play the game again, and that doesn't work when you want it to work, and it certainly does not care about what the public wants in terms of something that they'll view

as a piece of entertainment. So it's you know, a matter of when things present themselves, when something seemingly wants Hellier three to continue is kind of what we're at the mercy at. But I'm confident that there will be, because It's hell Here's not one of those things that ever ends, you know, And I think to kind of go full circle, you know, with all the things we talked about today, you know, it's hell Here's just

one fragment. It's a docuseries that looks at one fragment of a very large, all encompassing phenomena, you know, and that phenomena presents itself in the lives of many different people, in many different places, in many different ways. And it's like, you know, people can look at Hellier as an isolated thing for you know, some of these adventures or curiosities that we've gone on, but at the end of the day, it's still a finite thing.

It's a small thing, and the act of just being someone who continues to look into this by default is always going to make more of that come out, you know, when it's meant to come out. You know, I'm at a point like I don't necessarily view Hellier as you know, this one project that just takes place in this one place. You know it has it been so far, sure, But at the same time, you know, it's it's just the phenomena itself, and when it comes out to play,

it comes out. You know that we're not we're not necessarily in charge of that, which is why it's not it's not a scripted show that just gets a bunch of seasons, you know, So it's you know, that's I know it's not not necessarily a satisfactory answer, but it's an honest answer. Well, you know, but that's been I'm certain that it will perfect.

Yeah. The only thing I wanted to add to that that the one thing that's been very refreshing for me for this entire conversation is that how you're as an idea, how you're as a project, or however you view it has been just as transformative, if not more, for you and the group has personally as it has been for all the people who have viewed it and had life changing experiences from it. And I think that That's one thing a lot of people don't take into the fact that if hell, you're truly is

an initiation as we have seen it in the past for us and our friends and whoever else we talk with who who have experienced that, that it was not only for the viewers benefit or experience, but also you guys as well, and then it's been for you, you know, yeah, well one

hundred percent. And I think you know that's all part of that too, is like, you know, this is just my personal take, but I'm certain every individual person involved and not involved, you know, are still going to experience their own personalized things, and a lot of times those things probably should stay that way as personal. I don't think everything is supposed to be

filmed. I don't think everything is supposed to be talked about. I think that there are certain things that, you know, when it feels right, you know, that's what we'll try and put out there if it seems like that's what this thing seemingly wants, you know, if we're even accurate in that right. But it's you know, it is of course transformative in a lot of different ways, but it's also a continuation of a transformation that's already

been occurring long before Hellier took place. And that's, you know, another thing I want people to understand. And I'm not just saying this for myself. I'm saying this for people who have maybe been inspired or found the topics in hell You're interesting. Is like, don't let the themes and places in Hellier be a be all or end all for you, And don't take everything we say as gospel, because we're still just people too, trying to figure

stuff out. We're not infallible, clearly not. And one of the things I want to add to that, you know, when it comes to like, you know, a transformative experience, is that you know, I've had things happen to me before Hellier, and I'm certain things will happen to me long after Hellier has finished. Because Hellier is also not the be all end all for me either. I have a whole history most people don't know about

of strangeness that predates Hellier by many years. Hellier wasn't my beginning. Hellier is something that's happening along the way, and I hope that there's more people who understand that in the long run too. Where Like you don't necessarily need to go to all the same places. You don't need to explore all the same themes or people, because like I said earlier, that's still the focus

that's going to make you lose the stuff that's happening to you. The actual stuff that's happening to you hellier is a thing that will always happen because the phenomena exists. And as such, that phenomena exists all around the globe, and it exists in your own backyard. Don't let someone else's backyard make you ignore what's happening right under your own nose. So it's a good thing that

this is transformative. But at the same time, I also hope that people see that it's only just giving you ideas to inspire, at the very least, show that the things you've been told about the nature of this phenomenon might be a little more complex, it might be a little more mysterious than maybe certain pop culture ideas have propagated thus far. And to me, that's all I want of that project. You know, if that's all it does, then it was no less an initiation in my opinion. But initiations, as

it implies, is only just the start. Don't let Hellier and all those places be the end, because if that's what you're encompassing the phenomena into, there is no beginning for you. You're still stuck. This stuff is everywhere and it's accessible to all. This stuff is a part, in my opinion, it's part of the human condition, and as such, it will always remain It's it's not just in one place, and it's not just surrounding one

group of people or one kind of person. You know, there's a lot of interesting stories out there, and there's a lot of interesting energies and people to meet, and I'm sure there's there's a lot more wild experiences to come that I can't even comprehend yet because they haven't happened yet, that might take

us to completely different places. You know. That's that's part of that, that remaining open to things, you know, like, don't don't let the places and people in hell Here be a closed circuit for you, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Tyler, I love that so much because one of the biggest things that we have found is the importance of looking

in your own backyard. And Tyler Terry, the guy I mentioned earlier, one of the biggest things that we looked at right away was we both both grew up in a rural, small town Ohio, and we started reaching out to people we went to high school with consistently saying like, Hey, did you guys ever hear these stories about River Road growing up, because we all kind of heard the same thing against small town Ohio about don't go out to

River Road. There's coultists in the woods that will grab you, there's sacrificing children, there's a cave out there, there's this, there's that, There's all these terrifying things occurring. Don't do that. And so one of the biggest things for us was the importance of looking in your own backyard, like it's phenomenal to go and meet people like Geraldine, to go to Point Pleasant,

to go to hell your meats. But it's another thing when you start to notice the little bits of your own story that have been building up since you were a child, and maybe you never paid any attention to it because it didn't seem to fit in the the taps ghost hunter's realm that you grew up in, you know, the Zach Baggins of the world. But then

when you get closer to the phenomenon. But as you get closer, you do start to see like this stuff has been following you for a lot longer than maybe you even understand, you've ever even considered, because you're so hyper focused on what you think it should be, because someone else has told you they're part of the story, and you never thought to sit down and discuss

your own part of the story. So sure, I guess my my last question to you before we let you go, if someone was wanting they wanted to get started on this, this path, this journey, apart from the obvious go watch hell you're where, would you suggest someone to start that Maybe they think this could be something that's that's that's there for them, but they're

not quite sure. You know, I think something that's really valuable is just trying to source a lot of different information from a lot of different places, like read read a boat, a lot of stuff that's not necessarily interesting right

away. And what I mean by that, and this is just another like kind of overview statement on the phenomena, you know, like I know, in the course of this conversation, you know, we've brought up, or at least I've brought up you know, whether you know, different topics like

ghosts, UFOs, goblins, what have you. And in my opinion of just looking at this stuff a long time, you know, I really do think all that stuff is connected, and I think you can get a really good appreciation for how strange this stuff becomes when you open yourself up to the possibility that maybe those things are connected. So it's like when I first started looking in the weird stuff as a kid, I thought UFOs and things were really fascinating, but at the same time, it was never something that I

thought one could like act investigate. And the reason I say that is like, if you take UFO experiences at like face value in the way that a lot of people think about them, you know, it's like a sighting of someone seeing something in a sky for a brief moment and then it goes away. So it's like, what are you going to do. You're just going to go to an open field and see the sky where something was, Like that has nothing to do with where it went or what it was like.

There's not a whole lot to like go off of. There's not a whole lot that's tangible or there aren't There isn't like a physical location that is like the abode of the ufo. It's kind of like it's kind of like saying you're going to investigate people by going to a place you saw a car drive by the road. It's not going to actually tell you anything about what people

are. So there's always this kind of like intangible element to UFOs or as fascinating as I found them as and as as mysterious as they were to me, it was like, ah, but you know, you can't really explore

it. There's nothing to explore at least at least not at that point when I you know, when I was a kid, and then when it came so I always had an interest, but then when it came to things like bigfoot, cryptids, whatever, all kinds of different cryptids, Bigfoot in particular, I thought it was interesting, and it wasn't that I didn't believe in it, but I also was never interested in bigfoot stuff initially because you know,

when you read these stories the way that they're written about and propagated, you know through pop culture, a lot of that narrative is that it's some undiscovered animal in the woods. It's the missing link. It's this thing and that thing, and you know, you you hear a lot of people rationalize how they could exist in this amount of number if they live in this kind of habitat, and it's all spoken of through this very strictly physical ends, and it's as you know, hearing that as a kid, I'm like,

well, you know, it's interesting. I wonder what it is. It's not that I didn't believe in it, but it also didn't interest me at first because I viewed it as like, well, even if it is real, it's probably just an undiscovered animal, you know, Like that's the way people talk about it, which means it's not like supernatural, which means it's not necessarily like the stuff I'm interested in, Like I'm curious about like supernatural

elements. I'm not necessarily like I'm not like a zoology outdoors person, you know, not when I was a kid, so I kind of ignored a

lot of that stuff. So it's not until like, you know, for the most part, you know, when I was in high school and such, apart from like kind of like weirder occult type topics, you know, a lot of that stuff kind of still held true to like ghost phenomena, and I think that was really popular for a lot of people, which is why a lot of people had ghost hunting groups, is because it was like something tangible in a way where it gave people a physical location to get to,

and it seemed isolated where it's not like a big Foot where it's like or UFO, where you're going to a place where it used to be. You're going to a place where you believe it is right now, And there was that kind of excitement there. There's a way that people interacted with it, and I think that's why, for the most part, a lot of people who are in the paranormal stuff tend to be people who are in the

ghosts and ghost hunting. So to get to the question, which I understand is like long winded, it wasn't until I started digging into like say, the high strange and stuff, which I think might be hard you know, to tackle if you start off with it. But it's not until you see stuff repeat or you get and hear the right reports that you start to understand that, like all that sort of stuff is weird, Like Bigfoot's actually weirder than that narrative of it being like a monkey in the woods, and maybe

UFOs aren't coming from space. Maybe sometimes they're coming from underground, or people are seeing them come from underground, or they're leading to places that are terrestrial to our own planet. And then in between all that, maybe all of those things are sort of like ghosts. So even when it comes to hunting ghosts, how do you really know you're talking to something that you think is a person. I think there's a lot of hauntings that aren't people that I

think people believe are. I think all this stuff is a lot stranger. So, you know, one of the things I'd recommend for people starting out is just be open to reading about all that stuff, but kind of have like a arm's length point of view, like just a small step back, and try and look for the little things that repeat in all of them, because there are things that repeat, and there's a lot of similar things that

repeat in these stories, you know. But I'd also seek out, you know, writings that kind of focus on high strangeness things like you know, I know, for me, reading something even just like the Mothman Prophecies and as a kid was really influential, you know, And that's a good book that illustrates too how pop culture kind of distorts the viewpoints of what these things are, because whenever you bring up Point Pleasant, people only really think about

the Mothman. We're like, oh, yeah, that's where people saw the mothmn And what they don't realize is, like the Mothman was like almost the least strange thing that was happening around that point of time. Most of the stuff that happened in Point Pleasant that pertained the Mothman was UFO activity and weird Man in Black Encounters and like Man in Black Encounters which would lead to ghostly events inside of people's houses. Like there was so much weird stuff happening in

Point Pleasant, like the moth Man is this one element of it. And yet I would argue there's probably a lot of people who like the Mothman and that story that don't even know about that because all they hear about on these shows is like, Mothman's really scary. Let's focus on that and talk about

people seeing a creature. People like creatures, and it completely overshadows this weirder, interconnected element of like, well, actually there are a lot of people who saw UFOs in their backyard and like UFOs were touching down and it was so prominent there were literally troops of people going out at night and point pleasant hunting UFOs that they were seeing flying over hilltops and stuff like. That's crazy.

And the fact that most shows that are about the Mofman don't talk about that shows how misconstrued all these things are and how limited the viewpoints on the surface are. And it doesn't help that, like there's a lot of bad books out there that also will only focus on those things because they're salacious or intriguing because there's a monster in the story. So try and Like it's a difficult question because it's not an easy thing to get into, because it's kind

of a mess if we're going to be honest. So all I can say is like, do your best to kind of like be skeptical, but go in trying to and I'm not even trying to convince someone of this, Like don't listen to me either, but try and see if it even happens for you. Try and look for the patterns of this stuff, the way people feel when they have these experiences, whether or not they saw anything weird that happened beforehand, or just source a lot of info from different places, you

know, read about Bigfoot, read about UFOs read about fairy lore. I would recommend reading a lot about fairy law because I think that actually ties in to a lot of this stuff. And you know, read about ghosts, but kind of see that there's a lot of overlap in these things. So even if you're reading a book that might even you know, be biased towards you know, a certain viewpoint, like I don't know, just seek out strangeness factors and if it doesn't resonate with you, then don't stress it.

Just embrace things from a genuine curiosity point of view, and I think things will work out for you in the end, you know. And I'm not even as someone involved in it, like listen, I don't know what's going on myself, which is why it's like, you know, it's almost even

embarrassing for me to be like, oh yeah, start with Hellier. I would never even recommend Hellier as a start point, believe it or not, because it's like, you know, hell here is a weird, complex thing too that that might not be you know, the easiest material to digest it.

Just start start off anywhere, I guess, you know, because I think I think if you're intellectually honest about the strangeness that's in between the lines of reports and how they don't add up to the public narratives by default.

No matter where you start pulling the thread, like, you're gonna end up unraveling the whole thing if you're honest about just thinking critically about things and being open to their being alternative explanations or alternative truths to the complexity that these things can give. And you know, I'm sure I'm repeating myself, so I'm

sorry for the long winded day. No, I don't. I don't have a great answer for starting out, you know, other than be open to possibilities and don't listen to the dogmatic beliefs of like this is what this is, this is what that is, because I'm certain, I am certain most of them are wrong. Uh, but that's not to say I know the

answers, you know, And I think that's important. We're also don't we're all students, and don't be very wary of the people who claim to have the answers, if not outright, Just to not listen to those kinds of people, I think that's that's probably the best way you get in that possibly, Tyler and we we we appreciate the time. I mean, seriously, thanks for getting back to us, Thanks for coming on. I know you weren't feeling super great today. I think you said you were foggy when we're

talking on Instagram, So I just tired. I'm feeling good though, I'm feeling fine. I always perk up when when I ended up talking, I was just like, I just wanted. I was just told being that I would have decent responses for you because I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to not contribute to something. You know, that can lead to interesting discussion as all. That's that's that was my only concern is like I didn't I didn't want to not give you guys something that someone can work with. I

guess. Oh no, you did an amazing job and this has been an awesome interview. Yeah, so thank you so much, Tyler, and want to have you back on in the future so we can talk about all your weird health. Yeah, that's something that I'm excited to talk to you about. So again, thank you so much. Yeah, sure thing, Thank you guys. Thanks for having me Brittany. I'll be honest, that kind of felt like a long time coming, right, Yeah, and I do

find this interesting. This is something that like, I'm glad this is like our first episode back in a minute, because this to me outlined a lot of how I've been feeling lately that things have changed. I have changed,

We're getting well, we're getting back to our roots. Were so much further away from where we were when we started, and I think that's important for us to have a nice reflect Yes, a reflection was with a like minded person who can kind of put this in perspective for us as well, like, Hey, it's okay that you're feeling this way, because it's something that we've discussed a lot privately, like is this still for us, not necessarily

as podcasting or as high stranges, but is the way that we're approaching this still for us? And it's nice to hear that it's okay. Yeah. So with that being said, Misspring, and let's see anything else that you would like to add. I do not. I think we're have to add this episode of Our Strange World with Tyler Strand to our never ending but are always Growing tails from the dark a