M he was cold, cold, he was cold. Mine. What's going on up there? Could be the most important event in history? Now I am the cold and destroy our worlds, I said. I hope this is close to hill. It's all ever again. Hello and welcome to the Details from the Dark Podcast. I'm your host, Bob. You're with my co host Brittany. Hey, guys, what's up Brittany? How's it going this morning? It's going pretty good. How are you? Oh, it's going
well. Um, you know, just kind of vibing. We're back back to the you know, the good old Monday through Friday job and home from vacation and trying to readapt to being an adult again. That's fair, that's a fair statement. Actually. I kind of just still wish I was drinking butter beer standing outside of Green Goots at Harry Potter World in Florida. But you know, at least it's been a mild couple of days, hasn't been
freezing cold? Yeah. Can can we talk about that for a second because it kind of goes into today's topic a little bit that we're gonna talk about. Where did this fifty five and sixty degree fucking January weather come from? Warming. I don't know. I can't remember it ever being this warm in Ohio and January. Well, I didn't grow up in Ohio, so I don't know. Well, what were Junie worries like? In North Carolina? Was it ever warm like this? It depends. We had a lot of
rain. It was rain and snow, but very rarely do we get more than like a couple inches. Gotcha. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to make of this. I'm not I'm not super happy because I feel like the other shoe's gonna drop and it's like all the sudden, Mother Nature is going to remember its winner and then all hell's going to break loose. Basically, I don't know what can you do though, So kind of talking about today's topic, what got me on the military operations idea was?
I was, do you ever like scroll through like your YouTube shorts and you get like Joe Rogan clips? Yes, in ninety nine percent of the time they're not even posted by Joe Rogan at somebody else posting like little snippets of information. Yeah. Well he had an author on who was talking about Operation paper Clip. Are you familiar? I know we've kind of like touched
on Operation paper Clip. We'd never really talked about it. Yeah, I did a good amount of research into Operation paper Clip because we were going to do an episode. But it is, it's fun if it's a lot, So if you guys are unfamiliar, this is kind of like a brief synopsis. Operation Paperclip was a secret US intelligence program in which more than sixteen hundred German scientists, engineers, and technicians were taken from the former Nazi Germany to
the US for government employment at the end of World War Two. So basically what happened was the World War Two ended, we decided that these people were two mix powers. Yeah, they had certain people that were too important scientifically for the scientific community to just let rotten prison or to put down, so they brought them over here and they gave them jomps, and including the head of NASA. Yeah, you know, Warner von Brahm was attached to us
that there's there's a lot of It's terrifying because I didn't know. I didn't learn about any of this until college, and they kind of like briefly summarized it when I was in college, and it wasn't until I don't know, a year or two ago, Drew Rogan had that author on and I listened to her and she wrote a book I can't remember the name of the book about Operation Paperclip, and then she kind of blew the lid off of a
lot of the classified documents, and I don't know it. It's kind of fucking scary to know how much of modern Western culture has been influenced by the Nazis. Yeah, and built on the backs of the Nazis. Yeah. Well, and it's weird because you and I were talking and you said you'd love to watch a movie or a show that's like what if the Nazis had won the war? Not not that you wanted the Nazis, and just what what would the world look like? Yeah, and I think it was was
it? Amazon has a series about just that. Yeah, it was only up for one season and it was I think it was produced in twenty seventeen, So that's not going to have a second season. Yeah, So I think that's why we didn't watch it. But these scenarios, it's it's always interesting to me to sit and think about what if. I think that's one of the reasons why I like fall Out so much, because it's always a what if scenario like this could be what the future turns into, you know
what I mean? Well side, I saw this Fallout meme that just I reached my seat. I fucking laugh. It's like, you know, Fallout New Vegas was the most historically accurate of all the Fallout games, because, as we know, if you're in a damned civilization in the desert, humanity will heal itself and return to its core ancestral traits, which is cowboys. And I never thought about how hilarious that was, Like there was a nuclear disaster in the Mojave Desert and we all just decided to fuck it, We're
cowboys again. Wild boy, We're going back to cowboys. And I just I wonder how many great resets we have until we go back to cowboys. Probably one more. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but you said fall Out. I'm like Cowboys, Cowboys, Cowboys. Yeah no, but these scenarios are always very interesting to me to just kind of theorize and think about. So, I I don't know, I'm glad the Nazis didn't win,
though, yeah, I mean, big same. And I know some people are gonna ask, hey, why don't you guys talking about MK ultra today. So the reason we're not covering MK Ultra, We're gonna do that over on Patreon this week because the deeper you get into m k ultra. Everyone kind of understands the mind control aspect of MK ultra, but it gets a lot deeper. It involves children, there's a lot of sex crimes that were
involved. You have the manson murders that get intertwined. It's a very strange thing, and I don't feel like we can like, I don't feel like it cannot be anything but a forbidden episode when you go deep, deep enough down that rabbit hole. No, I completely agree. But let me tell you about some of these operations that I kind of unearthed, so I was unaware of how many there actually were. And you have to be very careful
because the Internet has a way of kind of making making shit up. Well, one thing I've noticed is one operation will have a bunch of different code names, and so a lot of the articles I would I was saying, would say that Operation paper clip was actually Operation pencil, and Operation pencil did this, and then Operation paper holder did this. It's so it's it's hard to get the straight facts, but I think it's designed that way too.
Oh. Absolutely, it's it's meant so if there were there was ever a leak, we can say, oh no, well that was you know, only Operation pencil Holder. But Operation paper Clip was was a much nicer version of this. When an actuality, it's the exact same thing. Yeah, And I know there's some historians disagree with me, but I can tell you from experience that going down the conspiracy rabbit holes, I've I've went down there, there have been name changes because the director in charge decided, oh I
had a dream and this fits better. And that's the official reasoning for why there was a name change. And I don't buy that. I'm sorry, I just don't. And the thing about the Internet is the Internet has a way, especially when FOYO became a thing. Foya is the Freedom Information Act, When that became a thing, and a lot of these documents started hitting
the Internet. Then, especially during the days of wiki leaks, the Internet started naming certain articles that were pulled from these data mind leaks and giving them their own quote unquote operation names. So the Internet has their own operations that were never official CIA or Free Letter Agency operations. Yeah, and in a lot of these cases. And you have to be very careful because I've caught other podcasts doing this and it's I understand it's completely by accident, but they
will speak as if these occurred. And a lot of the things, especially when it came to the Wiki leaks stuff, it was theoretical. Yeah, it was all theoretical. It was never put into practice that we know of. But the thing is, you know, some people are gonna say, oh, babble, Deep States, just getting you. It was all done. Now, a lot of this stuff was just theorized and then it was documented. And again people on Reddit specifically, we'll say, well, they
wouldn't document if you didn't really do it. Well, now I add about Area fifty one for a second. I found out I can't remember what the program was, but George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell were doing an interview and I don't think it was Rogan, it was somebody else, and they said, the reason that it's so hard to get any true information on Area fifty one, for example, is everything is classified. Or it might have been one
of their documentaries that he did. Everything is classified. They can't even tell you what they had for lunch because it's classified. And if Area fifty one is that has that level of classification, I don't really know. It's kind of tough because all that documentation is sitting somewhere in some database. So when it gets leaked, I could totally see someone grasping at nothing because of how
like how overboard they went with classification. And there was recently a right Pad league and Matthew Birds sent me one and there was a second one done and it's I read through the league and I was going to do a whole right Pad episode and we still might do another Right Patterson episode. What we did that a couple of years ago. That was one of our early episodes.
A lot of the stuff there was classified, especially in the early days, and when you actually go through and you start to decode some of the stuff,
it's not impressive. It's like the build. You know, we were building an air hanger and we classified the patent of the building, and yet you'll look at that patent ID and you'll find someone on Reddit saying, hey, I just unheard that on Earth this and Wright Patterson this is where they held the aliens, And it's like, no, that's an actively used hangar that's on Google images, Like, it's not actually that crazy, and so you get really you can get in the weeds very quickly doing these types of
research projects. When it comes to any of these like quote unquote secret US operations, well, that's one of the things that hasn't really talked about a lot, is the fact that, I mean every it is a bunch of paper pushing when it comes to a lot of these operations and a lot of these quote unquote declassified documents. I mean it's like you said, it's not even just for Area fifty one. Everything is documented. Even the CIA when they were talking about I'm not gonna say his name, but the guy who
was supposed to organize everything into a digital database. Yes, I don't know why. Uh, like they didn't even know half the things that they had in their own database. Yeah. That when we when we were like going deep into that conversation, I was floored when he was unearthing and kind of saying, like pulling the curtain back on how little they knew about their own
operations. Yeah, and then there's nothing. I've met a few guys over the years who have been retired FBI agents, A retired dam there is a because I'm kind of used to, like, the whole Army makes fun of the Navy, and the Navy gets made fun of by the Navy, an air Force, and Marines. I'm used to that. Yeah, but these agencies are in such a competition for funding they classify stuff against one another.
Yeah, and Kennedy assassination is a prime example of that. Someone asked me over on Facebook, Hey, what do you what do you think is going to come out of these, uh, the new JFK files. I don't think we're gonna get them anytime soon. I think, similar to the last two administrations, they're just going to push it back again. Yeah, I was gonna say, isn't that the whole file system that they've been pushing out
for literal decades? It keeps getting pushed back, and I think that anything we get fed um, because what's weird is all the players, the major players to my and I could be wrong, I might be missed quoting, but I'm pretty sure all like the major players in the conspiracy are all gone now, like they're all dead. So I don't really know at this point, with the exception of there's something in there that they don't want the public to know. Yeah, that could that could be a like a source or
the reason for some fucking anarchy. My theory is that's exactly why they're pushing it back. And each president doesn't want to be in that administration when that hell breaks loose one hundred percent, because I mean, you know, there's nothing better for reelection than a wartime president, and there's nothing worse and being the sitting president who says, hey, we killed one of the most popular presidents in US history. And again, I'm not if that's the case.
Well, like I said in the episode, I'm not. I'm not in any any major camp specifically. But do I think the US had some hand and something. Yes, I do, But that's about as far as that I've gotten down that rabbit hole. And you know, I think we did like a two hour episode and we were still I think I started like fifteen articles to go. Yeah, that was a deep, deep run we did
there. And it's so weird because that's one of the ones that, like, I think that's everyone's first conspiracy theory, and yet there were so many unknowns in twenty twenty two and we covered it that I could not fucking believe that there are there's so many different camps on who actually did what, and it's bizarre because all these camps are arguing with one another versus arguing to find the truth. And we saw that in a lot of this research that we
did. So I want to talk about Operation Bulldog first, or have you heard of Operation Bulldog? No? Not at all? Okay, So some of these are US, some of these are UK, some of these are gonna be Russia. This is all over the place. It's just government operations in general. But one thing I will say, from doing research for as long as I have with this kind of stuff, just because it was headed by the UK government doesn't mean the US government wasn't involved, or vice versa.
And there's gonna be an overarching theme in this episode that if you ever think that your government wouldn't do that, yes they would. That's that's the I'm sorry, but that's the lesson to be learned. I mean, am I wrong? No? No, you're not. Okay. So Operation Bulldog was held in September of nineteen forty nine, was overseen by the UK's Fighter Command and Bomber Command, and it was a show of strength to the Soviets.
It demonstrated that the West could take swift and decisive action and the events that Russia that Russians flex their muscles a bit too much, and for good measure. The operation also involved the air air forces of the US, Belgium, France and Holland. The Soviets took careful and concerned notice, which was the whole point. It appears was not just the Russians that kept a BDI on military maneuvers, but just possibly entities for another world did as well.
So this is one of them that has like a UFO crossover. Yeah, and we've talked about this a lot, because I know some people are gonna say, you, you know, you probably shouldn't bring UFOs into these conversations, but we have. We have brought on this show multiple incidents instances I'm sorry, of UFOs flying over nuclear power plants or involving themselves in some sort of military operation or a conflict. So with this or natural disasters or unnatural
disasters, human cause disasters like Chernobyl. Yeah, so with this being a show of force, I'm not shocked that there was a UFO connection at all. Yeah. So, at the time Bulldog was held the late JR. Oliver was radar operator as at a British Royal Air Force base called Saich what it was called Sandwich Okay, which was situated in the English country of Kent.
Oliver said, this is a quote. Even so long ago, it was almost impossible to fly a glider across the English Channel without it being plotted. The exercise was structured in such a way that the technical resources and personnel of the defensive screen were stretched to the absolute limit. So what was interesting is I looked up the US variant of Bulldog and they put a lot of
time, effort, money and resources into this. Like there's quite a few people who think that this wasn't just for the Soviets, but it was because there was a potential UFO threat that we were trying to show like, hey, we're not we're not to be trifled with. We will fuck you up if you come down here. I still don't understand like the thought process spelling that, but you gotta try, well, you gotta think at forty nine, I mean this is the time where world conflicts were one after the next
time. And when I say world conflicts, I mean global conflicts that could potentially have a catastrophic end for our entire planet. I could understand seeing lights in the sky, or seeing a craft, or going even deeper down that rabbit hole saying, hey, we have to show them that we're gonna fight back, and you know, you gotta go back to that Little Dickey song where he's you know what is it's the ten minutes It's like ten minutes long. What is the name of that freaking song? Pillow Talk? Is it?
No? Is it pillow talk? Yeah? Where he you know, he brings a girl home from the bar whose brothers in the army? Yeah, like or what did you just another conflict like that. That's kind of what I think happened here was the you know, it was a Little Dickey type of situation. Yeah, like, hey, Earth goes hard, Earth goes hard. They're trying. There's like four people in the entire listening base, you know what we're talking about now and there, and they are laughing
hysterically. Anyway. Oliver added that the staff of RAF Sandwich we're fully skilled and right on the top of their job. Two watches were kept a mb on alternate twelve hour shifts for the duration of Bulldog. According to Aliver, on one particular night, around midnight, things had gone slack and as group was told it could take a break. It was a break that didn't last
for long. As Oliver noted the following. Also, the US Air Force in this they put their best and brightest on this operation, like it was very serious. Why would you sacrifice them? Yeah, I mean they were like ready to go for the sake of a quote unquote show of strength against the Soviets, which again I'm not saying wasn't warranted at the time, but I'm saying it does strike me as odd to have all of your special operators
on one singular project. Yeah. So within about fifteen minutes, the PBX operator came in approached by the debt Our duty controller and it was advised that beachy Head radar was passing a plot to us at a large flying object and would we track it. They did exactly that. It became very clear and
very quickly that this was no ordinary aircraft. Oliver were called. Reaching a position out to the sea of the Heel of Kent and abruptly turned north and as it approached the Thames or Thames thha Ms Estuary, we passed it onto the Martlesome radar with whom we had been in contact. So basically it had gotten too far away from radar system A and they passed it on a radar system B. That's the easy way to kind of put this up. Oliver
offered something remarkable, flying it close to fifty thousand feet. The air speed of the object we'd observed and plotted in accordance with RAF standard procedures was assessed
at very nearly three thousand miles per hour. Holy shit. The general consensus regarding its size among the very best experienced radar personnel engaged in the operations was that the object had offered an echo similar to that of a large passenger or freight surface vessel, something in the region of fifteen thousand or twenty thousand tons.
In a typical British understatement, Oliver said, there was quite a bit of buzz about this, so kind of looked into this a little more and this craft it was with so these radar systems were considered state of the art at the time, like this was the best of the best radar and this craft was so large and was moving so quickly. Our cutting edge edge technology at the time, and the British cutting edge technology of this radar system could
barely keep up with this craft. It was that fast. Then something curious happened, as Oliver noted, at our usual relief time b watch stood down and went to breakfast in bed at the domestic site of the Stoner House. We were awakening from our watch Sumbers by Sergeant Platt and assembled in front of the Stoner House with our Sergeant Belcher, Sergeant Hatter and various minor NCOs for
an and then they had an addressed by Squadron Leader Monday. Here minded of us of our duties as serving members of the RAF and the requirements of the OSA, which is the Official Secrets Act, and to forget especially the odd occurrences of the past night, and not to mention to anyone not connected with the RAF that has the same special clearance. So again it's they. The guy did another interview at one point and said that this was a polite threat,
saying you run oath. You do not talk about this. Yeah, if you do, because back then and someone can correct me if I'm wrong. But I know here in the US you just ended up with life in prison. Like there were certain times that if you disrupted your clearance and you went public or something like this. You just went to jail and you were never seen or heard from again. Oh my god. So they took this incredibly serious. But that was not all going on watch that you didn't be
found out that duty watch block, I'm sorry. Duty watch book normally only replaced completely full which recorded every air engagement, every message, every official order by the watchkeeping officer, every break, every meal, and every person that entered next to the building, along with when they did made during every official part of the previous watches, including all the Knights activities, had gone. It was replaced by a brand new, shining duty watchbook. No one knows
to this day where that book went. Oliver added, the rest of the exercise took its natural course, and about a month later my service with the RF ended. He also noted it as highly likely that a good many people must have gained knowledge of this occurrence, and therefore proof of it happening may
not be too far and hiding. So the article pretty much ends itself by saying that you would think with this many folks being involved, that there will be some sort of documentation that came out to support this or what have you. But it hasn't. And then on the US side work it's even more interesting is there are some conflicting reports that there was a large object that appeared on our radar as well off the coast of California and all wait, and
we across to the UK. No one knows. So there are some uthologists who think that this was the first like we're quote unquote recorded incidents of a teleporting craft. But then there's others that say, no, these were two giant shows of force and these were different crafts coming down to kind of say like, hey, chill out. You know us, you're superpower. UK's a superpower. We're gonna let you know that we can be in both places
at once, fucking stop. So it's it's kind of a weird one because again, it when you kind of looked further into what was the point of this, it seemed like a lot to just show Russia, hey, we can respond and fuck you up if we choose to. Yeah, that seems very excessive. Yeah, and it just it doesn't really make sense to me
that that's the route that we would go. And in the UK, of all places, like I get the UK is definitely closer than the US, But like I said, it's like it almost seems like sacrificial to put those kinds of high level special operators in a different country that you really don't have control over. Well no, no, so it's the US state at home.
The UK stayed at home. They were just doing like a weird show of force exercise, like bringing all their stuff out, bringing out all the shiny toys, and there were some there were Again, this is where it gets a little touchy, because I don't really trust where some of these articles come from. They said that we were showing off our nukes as well,
like bringing them above ground, which we just don't really do. Yeah, there was a lot of things that were that were surrounding this, but again I didn't want to include them because it's all very speculatory and it's well, my dad said this happened, and he was there, and it's like, okay, who's your dad, brod. You got to work with us on
this. But again, what was most interesting about this to me was the fact that we had multiple superpowers involved, and multiple crafts that allegedly showed up on our radar system and there are you know, I wanted to end this before I thought it off to you. There are some that say that this had nothing to do with the Soviets, but it was us testing out can we get them here at our back? Can call? Can we control when these crafts show up? By doing a massive show of military forest I could
destroy the planet. I know that's a hell of a booty call. It sounds ridiculous, but I also like I would, I would believe the links that they would go to for that, after going down some of these rabbit holes, I'm like, that doesn't sound that ridiculous. Actually, we will do a lot of dumb stuff for a lot less. Yeah. If you don't believe you look up the gay bomb. That was a real thing. Please continue though, throw this off to you. So the next one we're
going to talk about is Operation Popeye. Okay, did you ever watch Popeye the Sailor Man when you were grown up? Of course I did. That was a good show, a good cartoon. I probably shouldn't say that though, because it is super old. What what does that to do anything? Just this old doesn't mean it's not fucking phenomenal. I am pretty confident of that Big Spinach was behind that entire fucking show I was, so they were
literally just trying to get kids to eat their vegetables. Well, and the thing is like when we're asking my mom as a kid, like, hey, can you meet some spinach next time you go to save a lot? You're not gonna eat it? Yes, I am. I'm gonna get fucking jacked. That's exactly why that happened. Yeah. Well, the thing was, I grew up in the attitude era of WWF and then I saw Popeye. I'm like, oh, all combinations, all I have to do. Look like Kevin Nash is eat my spinach. Yeah, exactly, in steroids
or what. But it's just the spinach. I can get the spinach. I'm gonna be fucking six nine in jacked from the spinach. I mean you got there eventually. It was the spinach. Did you ever see the family guy or as either Southwark or Family Guy who said that, uh, it wasn't actually because of the spinach that Popeye's arms look that he just had giant tumors in his forearms. Oh my god, yeah, oh what please? Operation Popeye? Operation Popeye. Operation Popeye was a five year old secret clown
sea seating operation meant to lengthen the monsoon season in Vietnam? Do you stabilize the enemy and allow the US to win the war? Okay, so it's weather control, yes, So I'm sure you're familiar with in making it rain in Dubai, right, Yeah, we talked about it a little bit. Yeah, that was so we kind of talked about this off air a little bit. I knew we were actively doing this, but it's always, I guess, shocking because you know, you hear that in cartoons and like shows
from our childhood, like, oh, they can control the weather. And it's funny because I grew up hearing like witches can control the weather, and it was like this this occult fantasy of nonsense when an actuality our own government's been doing it for a fucking long time. It goes beyond just the government. It's other private companies as well. But we'll get into that at the
end of this article. Okay. Though it cycled through several names in its history, Operation Popeye stuck it stated objective to ensure Americans one the Vietnam War was never realized, but the revelation that the US government played god with whether alternating warfare changed history. Don't you love that the played God. Yeah, like I say that they played mother Nature. Like I'm fine with that, but the whole to me when when someone says, played God the first thing
that pops into mine and death? Yeah, life and death and stuff like that. Yeah. The Nixon administration distracted, denied, and it seemed outright lie to Congress, but enterprising reporters published damning stories about the rain being used as a weapon, and the Pentagon papers dripped classified details like artificial rain.
Love that And it's funny because Nixon the Okay, So the longer I'm alive and the more I get into like US history at US presidents, Nixon was involved in so much controversy that it's not shocking given Watergate, that this kind of slid under the radar for a lot of people. Yeah. I think
we should actually cover that on the podcast as well. Yeah. Eventually, the federal government would declassify its Popeye documents, and international laws aimed at preventing similar projects would be on the books, but the public would more or less forget it ever happened. Given the rise of geoengineering projects, both from municipal
governments and private companies, some experts believe Popeye is newly relevant. Most travel agents would recommend planning your visit to Vietnam roughly between the months of November and April. Prices tend to jump during the so called high season, but it's only a surefire way to avoid the rain. And boy there is rain. Between roughly May and October, the mercury rises to ninety degrees and humidity can
hit ninety percent. No thanks, right, Okay, let me let me ask you, because you're from the mountains, would you rather have scorching dry heat or a ninety degree day which is still hot but it's like bearable with
high humidity and dry heat one hundred percent humidity. I can't stand. Yeah, there's when I was in Oklahoma. I remember they it was like one weekend where it wasn't super I think it was like eighty degrees out, but the humidity was so bad I literally soaked through like all three layers I was wearing like within an hour of being outside. It was like, you know what, fuck this. I'll take the dry heat of Ohio any day.
Yeah. No, I completely agree. Here, heavy water and it's churned with monsoon winds and they can receive up to eight two point two inches of rain in July alone. Oh god, that's the average. That's the average. Yes, and a little later it racks up to eleven inches on average in September. Yeah, no, thanks, And for comparison Arizona, Arizona typically gets eight inches of rain per year. Yeah. I don't think people
realize how much, like how much rain that really is. Back in the nineteen sixties, however, Vietnam's rainfall patterns weren't the concern of American tourists so much as American military when miminary tests for Operation Popeye began in October nineteen sixty six under President Lyndon B. Johnson. The Vietnam War had been underway for a decade. For over a decade, though still a decade away from its somber conclusion, and more than eight thousand Americans had already died. With traditional
methods failing, the US government decided to look to the skies. The close monitoring of troop and truck traffic along roots where rain had fallen verified beyond any doubt that naturally adverse effects of rainfall and accumulated soil moisture on the enemy's logistic effort. Wow. So basically what they're saying is if they make it a
rain a lot, it will literally flood out the enemy. Yeah, well that's kind of thinking in because you know, you as an American, we all always survived the tunnel warfare and that kind of stuff of the Vietnamese people, which they were a very adverse enemy, like like we had never trained
or seen or fought anything quite like the Vietnamese. Yeah, a lot of people even say that it was going to be a two month war basically, Yeah, well that was the expectation, and it was kind of I don't want to say it was funny, but like when you look back on history, had it been a one or two month war, the outcome would have been very different in my opinion. Yeah, Operation Popeye continued, Lieutenant colonial Ed intended to further ruin Rhods jam rivers and extend the amount of time swass
of Vietnam weren't traversable. Cloud seating is a method for artificially simulating precipitation like rain or snow. The practice is thought to have originated in nineteen forty six. WHOA, Okay, that's a lot older than I thought it was. While experimenting with dry ice Vincent Shaffer, a self taught chemist employed by g and General Electric, of all people, made a big dycuphery. I don't want to interject too much, but let me ask you something of someone who's
more familiar with the scientific field. Have you ever noticed that at the like, self taught scientists or self taught chemists are usually the ones making like the biggest discoveries. Like yeah, I don't want to necessarily like like world changing, but like they're making groundbreaking discoveries. And I wanted your opinion, like why do you think Do you think that's because they aren't trained in condition to think the way that a college taught them, like they're already thinking outside the
box, or do you think that there's more to it than that. I think there's a little more to it than that. I do think that would be a factor. But if you are in a group of your peers, as let's just say a scientist, you are more likely well they're definitely positives to be able to bounce theories off one another, to be able to talk to one another about weird things that pop up, you are going to be more than likely too kind of here and go with your colleagues and their theories.
Yeah, kind of go with a flow. Yeah, And while you can make some pretty impressive discoveries, it's more of a standalone scientist I think would make bigger discoveries that could be proven wrong. But that's just my opinion. Peer pressure is definitely a bit well, no, because when we see that, and you got to see you saw that firsthand when you were doing you know, security management, there's always that kind of like, you know,
you get along to go along type of mentality. But then you have your people who kind of operate solo, which is what you and I did most of the time, and I feel like we came to a lot more peaceful resolutions than when we would involve say an entire branch office or we would go sit down in a meeting room, because I feel like when we're in a meeting room, a lot of it's just like a it's consistent sound board.
So I do wonder if that was similar, like would be similar in the scientific community, Yeah, because because you hear these like you know, like I don't know, solo scientific advancements being made by crazy people or people that have perceived as like, oh, he's just a mad scientist. But an actuality is he is he really mad or is he just creative? So it kind of goes back to I wonder if there is a benefit to being self taught versus going to like an mit for example. Yeah, I wouldn't
agree with that. So the article goes on and it said he noticed that cloud condensation nuclei, which are the tiny particles around which water condensates could be artificially produced to create rain and snow. That is a giant leap from dry ice. Yeah, how do you get from A to b? Okay, and again this is what I'm talking about. My brain doesn't really work. I would see that. I'm like, oh man, that's cool. My
glass is sweating. And that's as far as I would get. I think when it comes to noticing condensation and jumping to we can now make snow. Shaefer put is discovery to test by seating the clouds all over Berkshire Mountains in Massachusetts and successfully created precipitation. He was hailed as the first person to actually do something about the weather and not just talk about it. Of course,
Schaefer's discovery was not met with enthusiasm alone. Some dreamed of ending drought and others worried that the rain would be quote unquote stolen as scientist pulled precipitation out of the clouds in some places and not others. That's what I was about to ask. Could you could you potentially then reverse or back engineer this to create a drought like ruin someone's crops or like let's say we're war Worth Canada, for example, could we completely wreckon ecosystem by doing the opposite of this
or is that kind of a pipe dream? No? Okay, So how how a cloud makes rain is rain falls when it gets too heavy to be still held in the cloud. Yeah, so if you're starting that process over, it will take time for the cloud to get heavy again, to condensate and create rain, and then fall again. So let's say two miles away, we put more nuclei in the in the cloud and it created it created
rain. Realistically, depending on how many miles it takes. I don't know the science behind rain all that well, but depending on how many miles it takes for rain to condensate and the wind and stuff like that, Let's say two miles away, it rains. When an actuality it was supposed to actually rain fifty miles away, fifty miles away could then go through a drought because the cloud's going to pass right over and not rain because it are a rain
it's rebuilding now, yeah, or dissipates completely. So it's about of concern in my opinion. Well, yeah, because I'm just thinking, like in a war scenario like we're you know, I think it would be equally if not more damning, to be able to cut out someone's access to water again the necessity of rain. Like I you know, I grew up in Ohio. I think of our farmers here, Like how bad it is when we have a dry season. What if you artificially created a dry season for an
entire country. Yeah, that's fucking terrifying to think about. Yeah, I would agree. At first, no one seemed to consider the wartime applications of cloud seating, but on March twentieth, nineteen sixty seven, the operational phase of Popeye began. Pilots and their crews would soar over the select regions of Vietnam with cansters of silver or lead iodied, which were by the nineteen sixties considered two of the primary sources of water condensation nuclei. The plane crew would
ignite the casters and release the particle rich smoke into the existing storm. If all went well, the jolt of artificial nuclei would reverberate the system forcibly spurring additional precipitation. Despite eighty years of cloud seating efforts, rigorous research aimed at
proving or disproving its efficient efficacy is still underway. Efficiency excuse me. During their top secret briefing on Popeye Center pelling case, were told that the US taxpayers paid, without their knowledge, three point six million million dollars a year. See you hear that number back in the sixties and seventies, and that sounds like an egregious number. It's twenty three million a year in today's dollars.
Yeah, but the fact is, look at some of them, and again I don't want to get political, but if we look at some of these bills being passed, even at twenty three million, you're like, oh, that's a that's a drop in the bucket, all things considered, Yeah,
Popeye's success was certainly limited and also fundamentally unverifiable. I love that they said that because the best way to make the public and again this is conspiracy brain think that you don't have to worry about the sort of thing is say, well, we don't know how effective it really was, and we can't
really verify that. You know that what we did the cause and effect was x, y or z. When an actuality like you can't acknowledge that you can control the weather and say we don't know how effective it actually was. Though we don't know if we were good at it, we just know we can do it well. This is where the article took a twist that I was not expecting. Okay, as you read this, somewhere someone is probably seating a cloud state and city officials seed clouds in the Sierra Nevada each winner.
It's a way to make a little money from ski resorts that pay for the potential of extra sprinkling of powder. Okay, But it's also a coordinated effort to increase the water supply that flows from melting snow each summer and quenches the thirst of California and its neighbors in the Colorado River basin. And local officials from Wyoming to Mumbai carry out summertime seating to provide rainfall for farmers.
Meanwhile, the Chinese Meteorological Association is the world's biggest cloud seating operation, reportedly creating billions of tons of rain each year to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. Holy shit. The peacetime efforts were perfectly legal, but after the details of Operation Popeye went public, legislators begin to push for an international
treaty that would ban weather modification from ever being used in warphare again. And so it was the case, the law originating in the United States, among the very people who have been secretly testing and arguably benefiting from the technology in the first place. US officials approached the former Soviet Union about the international agreement, which passed through UN in nineteen seventy six and entered into force in nineteen
seventy eight. It's called the Environmental Modification Convention, and it's an international treaty that bars any action undertaken by military or otherwise hostage or hostile forces that could result in earthquakes. Tsunamis an upset an ecological balance of a region. Changes in weather patterns, clouds, precipitation, cyclones of various types and tornadic storms, changes in climate patterns, changes in ocean currents, changes in the state
of ozone layer and changes in the in the state of the ionosphere. The convention is in effect, and it's so comprehenshensive. It bans many forms of weather modification that, at least according to publicly available knowledge, do not exist yet. Okay, I have to throw in my two cents. I to throw my hat in the ring here for a second. Well, I'm gonna go off a couple of things here. Okay. So one, how many un laws are in effect because of actions of the United States? Okay,
you know what I mean. I try to google that that didn't come up. There's a lot. Okay, So we look at the Geneva Convention for example. Okay, let's look back. Let's go back to was it World War One? Where they said that shotguns shouldn't be used in trench warfare and we said, fucking want a bet and then use them anyway. And then Vietnam they said that we were using flamethrowers and they said, no more flamethrowers because it's inhumane. There's a lot where we're like, Okay, let's do
it for a while and then when they ban it, we'll agree. Well. And the thing was, it's almost always like wait till we've won or our use case is finished, and then we can regulate it, and then we'll go on to the next thing. Yes, I have a feeling that so many laws we're actually created because of the United States. But again we're talking warfare. What would stop Okay, So again, so this is Ohio brain, you know. So I'm sure driving through down through Cincinnati, you've
seen the giant salt piles and the reserves that we have. Yeah, what would stop a company like the one that I, oh god, I work for one like one of the companies that I work that we have surfaced that has a salt mine. What would stop them saying We're going to get into the weather control business and generate more snow, so more salt has to be used each year, exactly, like exactly, like where's the capitalism in this?
And what are we getting from it? Yeah? Because when you when you realistically, So what this article kind of goes on to talk about is there's the first thing it talks about is how are you accurately tracking if someone is influencing the weather. Let's say that we are still using canisters and planes to do it. How are you going to get the flight logs of a secret operation that's not even declassified. Yeah, if someone goes flies over Vietnam
again and causes it to rain more. Yeah, and if we're talking from a civilian standpoint. I actually I have a funny little story to tell. We had a mutual friend who he was pretty well off, and we were discussing going to get some computer hardware. And I was saying, yeah, the closest place I can get it from because it was a pretty like unique bit of hardware as it's like in like a nine hour drive. He goes, oh, we'll just take my plane. I was like, first off,
what the fuck did you just say? You have a plane? He goes, yeah, I got my pilot since a few years back, I have a two person playing we can just fly there. But what would stop a person with like warring farmers for example, because we both know, especially in Ohio, we have several multi millionaires that will live right next to each other in a delay provident, beat down fucking farmhouse. What would stop them from generating rain or too much rain the next town up with one of their
competitors. Because again, just because the UN says we can't do this in warfare, is there a commercialized law that stops you and I, as tales from the Dark, from having our own weather control system because we don't like rain, or we do like rain. No. So the thing with this type of cloud seating, the clouds have to exist in the first place. So it has to be the storm has to be able to happen for them to be able to see the clouds. It can't actually just create clouds that
I know of based on this technology we're talking about right now. Okay, they probably can after looking into that whole device, I think, but that's a whole different conversation. But for seating clouds, the clouds have to exist in the first place, and you can actually have a generator on your property. I don't know about on your property, but a generator can be on the ground and generate these nuclei that go up into the atmosphere and generate the
rain. It doesn't only have to be a cancer that's lit and set into the Okay, that's even more terrifying because think of how many back forties we've driven by that can have one of those just sitting back there. Yeah. So so it first talks about how are you going to track it. And then the second thing it talks about, which I was pretty messed up by, was if you have all these if you have all these bobs who get these generators on their back forty yeah, and try to generate rain for their
property. While Bob himself may not be impacting Mother Nature and the ozone and the planet and the and the weather conditions of our planet. What happens when you have seven billion bobs and you all have all these small companies popping up and generating artificially creating rain. What is that going to do from other nature? Well? And see, I'm now like remembering a conspiracy theory from like I don't know, ten years ago. So I want you to finish this
because this is I'm kind of enthralled by this. We should have done probably an entire episode of weather Control. But okay, so, like, since you've been in Ohio, you know how how big of a deal of the Ohio State Michigan football game is, right? Yeah, Like it's it is life or death. People get killed over this. If you're supporting the wrong school in the wrong place. It's it's actually very it's like a cult.
Let's just be fucking honest. It's a cult. Yeah, there was a conspiracy and this is a few years ago, maybe ten or so, that Ohio State, the Ohio State University. I had to say the you can't just say Ohio State. It's the Ohio State University was actively influencing the snowfall in Michigan Stadium and arbor to benefit them having a worse or better season and to like stimulate an increase the likelihood of injury on the field for Michigan's players.
And I thought, like, that is the dumbest should I have ever heard in my entire life. But I know how serious both schools take their football programs, and hearing that this is consistently happening, and oh it take is a geoengineering class in Ohio staying to do it? Like again, I am I saying that that happened. No, But I am I saying that a conspiracy theory that I once thought had no legs. I think it might have just put it choose on. That's That's about all I can say.
So. Yeah, it basically goes through and talks about there's actually a company named Weather Modification, Inc. That exists, that it's a North Dakota based company, of course it is, which had a hand in weather modification efforts from Mexico to Morocco. Okay, so we have an international company. Now, who is who's watching the watchers at this point? That's that's my next
question. Yeah, there's also big corporations like Shell, as well as a dozen of smaller startups like Carbon Engineering, which had developed and begun to implement carbon capture technology, which this is actually something Elon must talked about. If you remember, he talked about capturing carbon as a source of fuel. Yeah, I remember, I'm talking about Yeah. So they've implemented this carbon catching
technology and they're all intended to only benefit the local community. They've become so widespread that they could have have a planetary scale effect if there's enough local weather modification. At what point does it add up to more than the sum of its parts. So I hate to to kind of put a damper on what you said earlier about we we don't know that we can create clouds. We
can create clouds. We can. According to the Scientific American article right here, there are currently eight states actively overcoming major droughts by using cloud seating. There are two of the eight states that doesn't say which unfortunately that have proven
that under the perfect circumstances. Again, it doesn't say here what those circumstances are, but it says under the perfect circumstances that has been proven in up to seven hundred different examples that we can create clouds by partially regenerating them off of pre existing clouds from up to six hundred and fifty miles away. Yep, yep, that's the thing. So again I don't want to go into that. That's a huge article saying like why cloud seating is evil. So
I'm not gonna we don't have time for that right now. But I literally just google can we create clouds? And Scientific Americans. The first thing that popped up and I was like, oh, oh oh no, Well, how this article ends, which I do agree with to a certain extent, is basically, we don't know as we develop geoengineering and the ability to change the weather and the ability to create clouds, apparently we don't know the actual
long term effects of weather changing. And realistically the scientific study of the atmosphere, like the actual atmosphere yeah, is not that long standing. Like with our technology technology boosts that we've had in the last hundred years, and how we've actually exponentially grown with our knowledge. We have no idea the long term effects of what we're doing. In most cases are our modern scientific advancements trace
back to one to one and a half people ago. Yep, our country is only like three people ago old ye and people four people aren't really grasping that. And it's it's shocking to me as I read a lot of these with Hills from the Dark, I'm shocked how many scientific journals we've had to read to understand how this stuff works. And that is one of the things that very few scientists and I know they're usually the ones that you seem to
identify with, which is I'm sure that there's no connection there. Those are the only ones really saying like, we don't really know what the fuck we're doing. We're not destroying the planet in two hundred years, like we have no real clue, but we're going to do it because that's what science to take a science, yeah, and it's it's really kind of terrifying. My concern with us is why are we not doing this on a small scale. Why aren't we creating a let's say, like a three factory building, creating
an ecosystem inside that building and testing on a very small level. Yeah, Like you can artificially create ecosystems, and I don't understand when we're not testing it and like that, No, it's not going to be one to one, Like yeah, I get like, it's not going to be a whole planet. But at the same time, why are we not taking more precautions about this? See? My thing is we have a bunch of movie trais. One comes to mind in particular about like why we don't fuck with Mother
Nature and that's a Jurassic Park where we brought back. I'm also kind of terrified by the way, because I keep seeing this popable on Twitter that we had a Jurassic embryo that we've been able to recreate and bring to life, And I'm like, guys, we've seen the movie already, don't do it. Jeff Goldbloom still alive, he can tell us exactly why we shouldn't do
this. But basically the last paragraph of this article is just but the real concern, Gordon says, is our rapidly changing climate and its effects on global water system. As Cape Town stares down the end of its water supply and floods and droughts, destabilized communities all over the world. She says, we're starting to realize how right now, how little we actually know about the atmosphere.
New climate altering technology will continue to crop up, but instead of providing us with easy answers to our biggest problems, these developments should see new questions. I would have to agree with that. What I think is weird is as many um like like climate change deniers as we've talked to when we've run into I've I don't think I've ever heard any of them bring this up. And you would think this would be the first thing that we're bringing that they're
bringing up. Did you ever learn about this in school? No? This has been happening since nineteen nineteen forty nine. No, and I've never heard about this. So you want to know how I found out about Operation Popeye? How so? I follow on Twitter. I only follow a handful of accounts because my my fee gets too convoluted. I just stopped looking at Twitter all together. And I like to use Twitter as a form of both research
and reaching out to people. But I follow um it's called a cult bot and UFO bot, and they have a third one Illuminati bot or something. But I only follow those two. And what these are is it's AI generated a bot account that just will hang on one second. Let me let me just pop up some of the examples from a Colt bot. Okay, they'll post thing like hurry up and open your eyes. The entire world around use nothing but lies or demons are organized and hierarchies and function as if they're in
a military organization, according to the grimoires and inquisition writings. Farther down the rabbit hole, still I find peace and knowing I took the right pill. They'll post things like that, and it's just like, you know, random bits of occult knowledge. Yeah, occasionally, but there'll be some good history in here. And there was one that was just like, next time you think that your society won't lie to you, google Operation Popeye. And I was like, I don't know what this is. I'm gonna put it in
my notes. I'll look at it at some point. And when the idea for this episode came up, I pulled up Operation Popeye and I saw all these articles about us controlling the weather, how we try to use it to win the Vietnam War conflict. I think it's what they want us to call it now, But yeah, yeah, it's that's that's a whole other conversation.
But then I started seeing this cloud seating stuff, and then that's how I got on the Dubai train of learning how they do it and Dubai and how like efficient they are, Like it's it's not like it's well, the impression I was under off of a few YouTube videos was this is incredibly inconsistent, like one in ten. No, this company and Dubai they do it one hundred percent of the time. Like it's it's not a question of can we it's yes, it's when when do we have the right time to do
it? And it's kind of terrifying that I learned that from a Twitter bought account, because no, I'd never heard of this before. I had always thought this was kind of like one of those like you would hear a mad scientist on a shitty sci fi movie talk about this kind of stuff. No, it's terrifying. And then like I know, I keep saying that, but we do not know the impact this will have permanently on our planet. Now, there is one example I will give that. You know, mother
nature always adapts and I mean that from a scientific standpoint. I don't mean that from a spiritual or magic standpoint. I mean mother nature, the ecosystems, the plants, the animals, they will always adapt and evolve. We I just saw an article about and I don't know how true it is, but that a mushroom has now developed the ability to break down plastics. Yes, I did. I saw that as well, and I think it is
true. Yeah. So, I mean there's always going to be a way that Mother nature adapts to what would be considered pest on the planet and inconveniences. Well, but at the same time, like just because mother nature will adapt, doesn't mean that Mother Nature will adapt with us. We could be the reason why Mother Nature revolts and we fucking die. That's what I was about to say. What happens when Mother Nature determines it were the pests?
Yeah, that we are the inconsistencies or where were the inconvenience that needs to be eradicated? Yeah, And regardless of what you believe in, Like I said, this isn't coming from a spiritual point. This is coming from evolution. Yeah, this is coming from plants, animals, chemicals, everything evolving and developing. Around its nature, around its ecosystem, and mother nature always
has a way of ridding and resetting. So let me ask you, do you see any point in which us controlling the weather, with the exception of an extreme drought, shouldn't be controlled by a centralized government agency. No, I think I think it should be controlled by someone like the UN. But the more I learn about the UN, I don't think it actually has a lot of power. That's a whole another Yeah, that's a whole other conversation. Well, again we go back to Jurassic Park. Yeah, and the
Jeff Goldbloom quote. Your scientists were so preoccupied befether they could they didn't stop to think if they should. All right, gold Bloom condown. But but it makes perfect sense. What do you think about it? But again, if this is this kind of stuff is happening, and there are companies doing this and no one's talking about it, what else are we going to unearth this year with the podcast? And again I'm not saying, like where the
founding fathers of figuring this shit out? But when it comes to bringing this information to each other, no one's talking about this, And I'm in so many conspiracy circles and I know I've heard cloud seating talked about, but it's usually in connection with Kim Trails. And when Kim Trails get talked about, I usually just turn my brain off, YEP, because I can't allow myself
to go down that rabbit hole. Because if there are certain ones, I know if I go down and by not coming back, and Kim Trails is one of them, because for every one point that makes sense with Kim Trails, there's seventy five that just they're ridiculous. Well, I definitely do think when it comes to conspiracy theories, I think there are a lot of intelligent
people in that circle and in that community that do really good research. But when it comes and we've talked about this before, when it comes to conspiracy theories, there is gate keeping out the ass, and I think it comes from both sides. The conspiracy get people are also gatekeepers. They don't trust anybody. They think it's all government, they think it's all secret. Yes,
they think it's lumin naughty, you know. And so when you allow yourself to be completely consumed by that lifestyle, I get it, Like I get why you why you would think that way, but you shouldn't. No, I would totally agree with that. But on the other hands, when it comes to the companies that are actually doing these things and actually changing the fucking weather like they're One they're marketing to the right people, they're not marketing
to the general public. Two, they are gatekeeping in the sense of the scientific terms that they are using, because a lot of people when they read these articles, they won't google, they won't look into it more, they'll just take it at face value. Well, it's like the term cloud seating, Like, what does that? That sounds like nothing. The average person's
gonna look at cloud sing I have naughty with the means. Average person's gonna look at weather control and they're like, oh, I know exactly what that means and why we shouldn't do it exactly. Oh, this is this is nuts. If you guys liked this episode, let let us know. We end a couple more. We just don't have time for it. We have one is also to do with Vietnam, strangely enough, and it had to do with like ghosts, ghosts and the graves and the deaths of you basically
like psychological torture. Yeah. Then I had a couple other UFO operations so let us know if you guys like this kind of episode, cause it's kind of all over the place, but it's still pretty much up our alley. Yeah. So with that being said, my only reminder for you guys is we're going to do an mk oldre episode this week patreons. If you guys are interested, go to patreon dot com slash Tails from the Darks sign up one dollar at you guys access all that fun stuff, and keep an eye
out. We have you Handed Strangers coming back this week and then I'm not really sure what we're doing for Friday step just yet, we'll do something fun. Yeah. So with that being said, Miss Brittany uns, there's anything else that you'd like to add. The only thing I want to add is I do want to do another listener stories this month. Yes, make sure you guys go over to Tales from the Dark dot net and submit your stories. I'd love to do another episode for you guys this month. That way,
absolutely I agree. So with that being said, I think we're not to add this episode of I don't even know what we're gonna call it yet to our never ending but are always growing Tales from the Dark. Alle