Music Saved Me.
How can I look at music through conversation, through the music of just somebody talking regular and just how they would and what does that reveal about the relationships to these very difficult things that they've gone through as a result of societal oppression and the prison industrial complex and all these things.
I'm Lynn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Saved Me Podcast, the show where we dig deep into the impactful stories about the power of music. Please follow us and share with your friends if you don't mind, and thank you for that. On this episode, Emmy Award winning composer, lyricist, vocalist, filmmaker, social political activist, and scholar who, by the way, is working on his PhD. Just your typical underachiever, Soamora Pinther Hughes discusses his new work and his views on the
force of nature as we know as music Sommora. Welcome to Music Saved Me. It's so nice to have you here.
Thank you so much. It's an honor to be on the program.
It's very fun.
And interestingly enough, my sister or brother program is called taking a Walk with Buzz Night, which you are doing while we're talking right now. I'd like to let the listeners know it's a beautiful day in October. So we couldn't keep him from just sitting in a studio. You had to you had to go walk about.
Yes, indeed, yeah, you know, this is my mental health practice.
And it's a good one.
You have such a unique musical background, starting off as a jazz pianist studying at the renowned Juilliard. Can you tell us how and when you first became attached to music.
Yeah, I've been playing my whole life. I actually started at age two, and I was in preschool. Wow, and I had somebody came to a musician named Jacqueline Rago. She became. She came to preschool and was like going around to all the people, all the kids, you know, playing some pieces. And I was just following her around like the whole school. And so after that day she went to my parents and was like, your kid wouldn't leave me alone. So clearly he's into this music thing.
And she was my first teacher. She really, you know, took me under her wing and kind of just brought me into the community of the music that she was a part of, which was venezuela and traditional music. That's what I started playing, and then I went to keeping music, then the jazz, and then I was I was kind of off and running by then, and I never stopped.
So it's been, you know, the longest relationship I've ever had in my life, besides you know, with my parents, and you know, just something that I don't even really I've never experienced life without it.
Your project, The Healing Project, explores themes of incarceration and violence and policing. What was the inspiration that caused you to want to tackle all of these sort of difficult issues and subjects true music.
I always, you know, kind of had a desire to use music and art to you know, speak to the things that matter to me and in the society. And the artists that always inspired me the most were those
kind of artists. And I also, I have always been interested in language, even though I started it off with the drums and the piano, and I wasn't a vocalist till much later, but I was always still very interested in language and the music of language and sound, which is a strange kind of I guess entry point into language because a lot of people don't think about sound when they think about speaking, which is which is interesting
to me, but we just never talk about it. So yeah, for me, I just always thought that, you know, kind of investigating all types of things through the music of language is almost like an entryway into the soul for people. And so obviously, you know, one way that I like to do that is through writing lyrics and making songs
with lyrics in them. But the Healing Project for me was kind of an investigation into how can I look at music through conversation, through the music of just somebody talking regular just how they would and what does that reveal about their relationships to these very difficult things that they've gone through as a result of societal oppression and
the prison industrial complex and all these things. And I was super inspired to do that project by one of my mentors, and Adiger Smith, who's a playwright but she thinks a lot about the music of language and has developed this whole, you know, method that's very famous at this point that's around how she does interview based work and she thinks a lot about music and that work.
So when I started to kind of be her mentee, she would just talk to me all the time out that method, and it's just really inspired me so much. So I kind of just decided to try my own
spin on that with her blessing. And you know, I always wanted to make something that was about the subject of abolition because I have a lot of close friends growing up that have been through the prison system, that have dealt with structural violence and whose lives have been very affected and kind of traumatized by the violent systems that you know, are a part of the United States, and so I just really wanted to use the lens of music and language to try to reach people who
maybe don't have you know, family members or friends who have been affected in that way, to try to reach them and have them understand the depth and complexity of that experience, because I think part of what that system does is it creates a lot of distance. You know, if you observe, you know, things like for instance, in prison, is is never in the center of the city. It's always in the outskirts or upstate. And that's the reason
for that is distance. You don't have to see what's really you know, what people are really going through, and so it's much easier to kind of just like put them throw them away to the marginess society and not I how to deal with it. And so my hope with this project is that through this universal music of language that we can kind of capsize that distance.
Well so beautifully put.
And I'm a voiceover for my day job, I do voice work, and so I'm very interested in what you're speaking about. And also I listened to quite a bit of the Healing Project and it is epic, And I say, you don't box yourself in with just America.
I mean, it's a.
Message that could resonate globally, really and it's really unique and it pulls you in.
It's not like anything I've ever heard before.
Thank you. That's a high compliment. I mean, that's some thing I also always try to do in my work. And you know, with humility understanding that I don't really think there's anything all the way one hundred percent original. You know, we all pull some so many sources, and I think it's important to cite all the sources in cite all the influences that create us and create art.
But at the same time, I'm always am striving for that that originality or that uniqueness of Okay, this is something that I haven't quite heard anything like that, And in my jolt you know, the listener in a different new way. So yeah, I appreciate that so much. And I think you're right also about you know, the global look. I mean, all the people that are part of the project are based in the US, and so we've only
really like presented the work here so far. But I really do hope that it reaches that global audience because I think you're right, these these issues are totally happening around the world in a lot of different ways, and people are also affected in very universal ways by you know, things like grief and loss and you know, depression, anxiety, the trauma from you know, violences of many different kinds.
So I think that even if people haven't been through these specific systemic experiences that are a focus of the project, I think there's things that they're going to connect to and say, wow, I know I've been through this, or I know my brother or my you know sister, my mom who has been through this. Well.
You've collaborated with many renowned artists like Herbie Hancock, for example, one of my faves. How did that experience shape your approach to music and activism combining the two?
Yeah, I mean Herbie is my hero, you know, He's the reason that I started playing piano. You know, I was like, I was a drummer, and then I heard heard Herbie play on Miles' records. You know, my teacher, Geechee Tailor, he gave me all these albums of that Miles Quintet and I was just like, oh, this is the sounding that I'm looking for. So, you know, he's always been my hero. And I met him actually through my sister, who's like another just another genius musician.
And she's she's worked with him family.
Yeah. Yeah, my sister is like the best musician in the family, to be honest, She's a genius. So she has toured with him for a few years now, and so I met him through her and worked on some pieces with him. And I think what I just learned the most from Herbie is like his boundless curiosity and playfulness, like he is even still now, as you know, one of the greatest of all time. And also he's you know up there in age, but his energy is is like twenty times even me when I was in the room,
because he's always following ideas. He's getting new equipment, he's trying out new, new different you know, keyboards, and technologies and sounds, and he just always stays curious. He's always looking for more ways to be inspired, and you know, he's never his attitude is never well, you know, I know all that there is no anything like that because you can't you can never know as much as there
is a Nobile music. And so, you know, that was just so inspiring to be around, to say, like, this is somebody who you know is to me like the greatest living pianist or you know, one of the grades living pianists, and he's still so curious and still always trying to find new ways to play.
Staying hungry is a good thing. Definitely, definitely, and your music helps. I would imagine a lot of people who well I'm going to guess this, but I'm sure you would agree that we're going through challenging times and needed that that inspiration. So it's it's I'm curious how music played a role in personal healing for you in your journey in life. Was there a specific thing that you realized, Wow, music really played this role in me getting healthy?
Yeah, I mean, I think what I have learned about music is that, in a strange, mysterious way, it tends to know things before I can articulate them, and so it's almost given me language throughout the years for what I've been going through. I don't necessarily think that it does the healing for me, and I actually think I've learned to make that distinction in an important way because as a performer, you know, you give a lot and the music that you make is supposed to be a gift.
It's not for me, it's for the listener. And so you know, I think the exchange around that. As a young musician, you can believe that, well, you know, I'm pouring all of myself into this music, and it is a very cathartic process and you learn so much about yourself, so you can mistake that for that learning for the
healing process itself. But what I've learned is that the art gives me language, and then I have to go out and find the tools that I need to actually do the healing, you know, And that's where you know, therapy comes in and different forms of healing practice and community support, you know, and just like engagement with myself, I think that's where the healing for me comes in.
But the creative practice is a part of that, and I think the part that it is is number one, just having the freedom of expression, like knowing that at any time I have this outlet, which is, you know, such a special opportunity to you know, just put down and connect to whatever I'm feeling and dealing with and
give all this kind of dimension to it. And I think also, like I said, the other part is that if I'm stuck on something, like I know I'm going through something but I can't really understand what it is, if I will know about it just through making work around it, I will understand it. And it's been really strange and in a funny way to like go back to some of the songs that I've written and be like, wow,
this song. Knew that I was going through this before I could make sense of it, and like the language that's in the material it allowed me to get like to figure out, oh, this is what I'm you know, dealing with. So I think that's something really special. And then obviously on the listener side, like you said, hopefully the listener can feel reflected in the music, and I've certainly experienced that as a listener where a lot of music I've I've heard, I'm like, again, it gives voice
to to what you're going through. So, oh, that's what it is, you know.
So I think that's give me an example of of of a song or an artist that you would hear that would make you feel.
That's a really good question. That's a really good question. That's a good question.
Do you put different music on depending on your food or something you may be dealing with?
You have to figure out, Yeah, yeah, I do.
I mean I think off the top of my head. You know, it's hard to remember an exact time because I haven't had like an immediate experience of that in a little bit. But there's so many different, you know, contexts in which I can say that that has happened to me. But I probably have to follow with you another because I don't have any when that comes to Mindy.
That's okay, we can we can go back to that one.
Yeah, no, but you're you know, your work often combines music with other art forms like film and poetry, And how do you see these different mediums that you're putting together complement each other.
I think they kind of just go together very naturally. For me, Like I already always thought of music as film scenes. I didn't do that intentionally, but as I write, oh how interesting, particularly with lyrics like I just that's I just see it in my head like a song. For me, I see it as like a scene, and that's how I am able to develop the characters in
the song and things like that. Even if it's something that is based off of something I've been through, it's still it is a process of like seeing a scene in my head to be able to write the song. And so even before I was making movies, you know, short films and things like that, I would always see the scenes in my head from just writing music, and so it was the extension to just actually making films was more of a technical one than it was kind
of a shift in imagination. And that just came number one with you know, getting very inspired and trying to kind of do a lot of informal study because I didn't go to school for that, but I just you know, I went to YouTube school like a lot of people, and then also just watched a lot of films. And then the rest comes through collaboration, which has just been the other blessing in my life, which I think is the case for all artists, is you know, just finding
the right collaborators. For me, that was just this kind of collective of filmmakers that I was lucky enough to be a part of, kind of like building around. And Christian Padrone is kind of like my main, my main guy, like co director. We make all the films together, but there's kind of a loose collective of each other that we make things together and inspire each other. We call
it risk. It's you know, Christian Anyway, Neutron, Cassim Morris and On Salvagi to Show See and so you know, we're always kind of like bouncing inspiration off each other, making things, supporting each other's work. And they're all high level filmmakers, and you know, I'm kind of like the person coming in from the music side. But I think that allows me to see everything in a different you know.
And so I think collaborati were collaboratively, we're able to create things that would you know, are very different than the normal perspective and apply I guess I would say sonic principles to the visual medium.
Ooh, I like that.
So I think that that gives me, I think, a different dimension to how I approach the film work that I think.
Well, it's always exciting when you get to meet and talk to someone who's sort of breaking down barriers, or maybe not so much barriers, but creating things that haven't been created, which is in a world that we live in today, it's getting.
Rarer and rarer.
I think, although there's so many out there, it's just harder to find because there's so many.
I agree, and not as a I mean, I guess it's technically is a critique, but I don't mean it
in a harsh way. But I just think that there's a lot of pressure on artists these days to do things that they see working, you know, and so that produces a lot of similar work because people are like, oh, people get this, and they get it quickly, and you know, it's it's it's a populated and hard world inside of like the industries of art, and so I think that people are incentivized to, yeah, just like make kind of carbon copies of what already exists, but maybe with a
different spin. But I just don't think that that lasts the tests of time, you know, And I don't I wouldn't say that. I I'm not the judge of whether obviously my work will do that, but I will say that that is the attempt, you know. Like again, all the artists that I admire the most, like, that's what their work does, so I have to try.
I love that.
And do you feel as though by doing something for yourself, regardless of that it's different that it's for you, takes a little bit of the pressure off for others. In other words, you know, you're not making it to be successful, You're making it to help.
Yeah, I mean my hero is James Baldwins. I learned a lot from just reading his work, and he has all these wonderful essays about the role and responsibility of the artists, and I think he makes it very clear that the role and responsibility of the artist is to be of service. You know, it's service work, and it's spiritual and creative and emotional service work. And so as a result, you know, the expectation that you will receive the fruits of that service immediately is not That's not
part of the job description. And obviously, you know, we have to understand, just like everybody else, that we have
to materially be able to engage with life. And so you know, artists deserve all the security and the you know, a lot there should be a lot that artists have from a quality of life perspective that you know, we have to really fight very hard to get and that people don't really understand like that we you know, don't have the we don't have the infrastructures that we deserve to have based on the service that we play in society.
But at the same time, you know, as far as what the creative work is supposed to do, I think for me it's it's it's a matter of trust, I guess in the sense that my hope is if I follow that creative process and appear an honest way, and I do it without you know, the the ego and the interruptions of well, what is going to work and what's not going to work, but more just what it is supposed to be made, then you know you trust that that will carry you to the ears and the
hearts of the people that need.
What do you think it is about music that is so healing? Is it the words? Is it the the chorus? Is it the instruments, vibration? Some people have said, do you have a specific idea or thought of what it is that is so healing with music?
That's a really good question, and you know, I feel like I always wanted to do more research on that, and I'm sure there's people that could speak to like the actual physical and scientific and spiritual properties of what music does, and like certainly like physically to the body, you know, And I think I certainly experienced that with
live performance. I think that's why I really still believe, even in the digital and technological age, and the power of live performance, it's not just because of the you know, musical you know, and collective energy, which is very important, but it's also because of literally like how the sound changes the physical space, and how the effects of that sound in that physical space, and how it charges their
bodies and their minds and their spirits. So that really means a lot to me, and I think, you know, I receive a lot from life science with that exchange. But I think in general, I think it's just it can do so many things. But I think one big part of it emotionally is just how personal it can be. I think that's something that with regards to all the with regards to all the different artistic disciplines, you know, they all do very different important healing work and all
different types of work, and it's just healing work. But I think one thing that's unique is that with the other main disciplines, whether it's like you know, film or theater or dance, even visual art, there's kind of a subject object relationship where you're usually just slightly removed from the work and so you are able to still put yourself in it, but you're still very conscious that you're like placing yourself relationship to an object or a character
or a story or something like that. Whereas with music, you can put on your headphones or even be listening to a concert and be with other people and hear the right song and literally feel like you are doing it, like you're singing it or you're experiencing this this thing, and it becomes like it's literally a part of your
like in your head, in your body. And I think that's something very unique to music that it can be at once such a like a personal, singular experience and also have that still that same collective thing that's happening. And I feel like that can be very healing because it gives you a very rare chance to like see yourself in a new way, or that you see yourself reflected, hear yourself reflected in a new way that really does feel like you're not stepping outside of yourself but literally
like just able to be echo. You know, Jack, my friend Jack Cobo, who's also was the co producer and collaborat Core collaborate on Venus the album, the new album, he said something that I think about a lot. He said, you know, I asked him, what is the what are the properties of echo, like just like physically, you know, as a tool, and he said, an echo is an imperfect copy. And I was like, Oh, that's great, Like
that's such a great concept. I feel like that's music that is music echoes in us as like an imperfect copy of us. If it's hitting the right way, it's like, wow, this is me, but just maybe like through the prism of this other person. So that's the long answer for it.
Like an imperfect workshop. No, I think it's beautiful. I thought what you said makes a lot of sense. What have some of your fans told you about what they get out of your music?
You know, it's very humbling. I think. I think the best kind of exchanges that I've gotten are people that just feel kind of similar to what we're talking about in the last question. They feel reflected, you know, and so people saying, you know, oh, with this song, that was my experience, and I've never heard it articulate in
that way. And I think, you know, hopefully it's because I think I try to be like very rigorously honest in the word and complex, so some songs can, like you know, be a little bit complicated, and I think important ways, like you know, the sound Grief that I have from my old album, which just talks not only about the reality of losing somebody, but a lot of the complicated feelings around it, like bitter than revenge and not understanding how to get over it or get through it,
like in whatever project of time, be wanting to rant. And so I think people who have experienced briefs like they appreciate that I'm making an allowance for a minute, which we all should, but just besides, society doesn't really allow for that. And I think hopefully with the new
music it does similar things. You know, there's a song called Forgive Yourself which ends the album, which is hopefully similarly like I think for a lot of people when they hear that, they're like, wow, like, I've never allowed myself to attain forgiveness around this thing in my life, and so those are the things that mean the most
of me. Is when people are able to engage that way, you know, take the music home with them and be like, wow, I feel like this is changing my life in this fond them right, say, that's a beautiful, humbling experience.
It's pretty special.
You've recently received a significant grant and the changes that it can make are pretty big.
What are your hopes for it?
Yeah, I mean, basically, you know, a couple of years ago, I transformed the Healing Project into an organization, a full fledged organization, and so now you know, what I'm hoping that that will be able to do is to really be both an artistic organization and a direct service organization, kind of like advocating for an abolitionist perspective and art, which obviously we're not the only people that do that
with part of community. But also I think the ways that we do it are maybe unique, and that it's a very collective experience. So we're building a lot of models for collective ownership of art, for collective exchange between currently and formally incarcerated artists and you know, artists of different experiences around the world who want to speak to
that experience and collaborate. We're using the art, you know, to directly affect policy around the prison industrial complex and also to try to actually get people out of prison. You know, we've been working for the last couple of years on a particular case around Chief from Ours, an amazing artists who was falsely accused in Ohio and as a depth row and we're you know, working with a lot of different amazing artists, from visual artists like Peter
mccoya and Maryland, you know, to just incredible folks. So, you know, my hope with the organization is just that it can change you know, people's perceptions around what they think the purpose of the prison is and really understanding that it is not the way to actually rehabilitate, heal whatever you want to say about like changing society or whatever.
Amuse you have thinking jobs at the prison, and also to provide that sense of imagination and possibility around what a world that's built around healing would really look like. What are those frameworks, what are those ways that we treat each other? And also how could that be scaled into actual institutions so that we could have a different way of being that would actually achieve the aims that we hope to be about as a society and as
a world. So that's the mission of the organization, and I think what that also allows me to do is that I can you know, I'm the artistic and executive director of the Healing Project, and so I'm able to lead the organization and kind of determine the vision and
the possibilities around it, but moves as a collective. And meanwhile, I can also operate as an individual artist and put out albums like Venus, which are very personal projects which kind of have their relationship through my desire to heal through all projects, but you know, it's really of that project.
It's very personal thing too. So it allows me to kind of operate in these two interlocking ways but still like stay creative and stay flexible, you know, and do all these different types of things that I want to do. So it's a big blessing, you know, that I really don't take for granted, And my hope is just that it can inspire and also prof opportunities for a lot of different artists that want to speak to these issues.
Well that's such a beautiful sentiment, and you are I don't think this is proper grammar, but you are being the change that you want to see. And not only are you inspiring people, but you're creating a legacy and I think that's pretty darn special. And so more, I just want to thank you so much for spending the time with us today. Congratulations on the new project. I want to get it right. It's called Venus Smiles, not in the House of Tears.
It's phenomenal.
It is, so you just put it on and it will take you on an amazing journey and we're very excited for you. Congratulations on everything now and in the future. I'm sure we're going to talk again. And thank you for being on Music Save Me. It is such a pleasure.
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. It means a lot to me, and you know, music has saved me many times. So I believe in the mission and grateful to be in conversation. I hope everything is beautiful in your world. H