Ep.44 Armies on Parade - Going Dutch | Tabletop Tommies Bolt Action Podcast

Music.

Welcome to Tales of Tommies. I'm Johnny and I'm Phil and in today's episode we're talking about the armies of the Netherlands found in the armies of France and allies book page 54 onwards. Yeah they're not an army that you see very often and you might see why as we run through the list but there are some interesting things you can do with them particularly around the vehicles. Indeed yeah so I mean they weren't in the war for a huge amount of time.

They very much tried to stay neutral and failed so it's not a surprise that they are sort of part of this book rather than getting an entire book in their own right i believe also because they because they had that policy of neutrality there wasn't a huge amount of military spending and training going on which is why again we're not going to see huge varieties in their troops but actually because they were purchasing stuff from other nations i think you're right we're going to

see some interesting stuff in the vehicle section i would say they were in the war longer than other european nations were because because obviously they had the colony in terms of the Dutch East Indies. Yeah, that's a good point. So in that sense, you know, in terms of the Pacific, they are there into 1942. Rather than the rather short-lived period in the early part of the war in Europe. Yeah, and because of that, we find some of that in New Guinea, don't we?

And so they may feature as we go through the army list.

Before we jump into the units, though, shall we go through the national characteristics? Yeah, so these will be very familiar to those of you you who've listened to our other allied minor nation chats because they all appear in other allied minor nations so the first one's communication breakdown which you see in the french for example and that means that in the first turn of the game if the first order dice drawn from the cup is one of yours the enemy can decide that the

dice is put back into the cup and a new order die is drawn instead so don't bring a sniper yeah second one is forward artillery doctrine again very similar to the french dutch armies get one free inexperienced or regular artillery unit this unit can be any anti-tank gun or any field artillery piece in the dutch army list except for heavy artillery and this is in addition to the number of artillery units normally available so bring

a medium howitzer and hurriedly conscripted reserves again very similar to the french if the force includes three or more inexperienced infantry sections it may include include a free inexperienced infantry section identical to the cheapest one already purchased. This is in addition to units chosen from whatever selector is used. So bring full, full strength inexperienced squads. There we go. Job done. End of episode.

Okay, Johnny. So in terms of the HQ, is there anything going on that we haven't seen elsewhere or anything that is worthy of note beyond the normal worthy of note? Not really. It's very similar to the national characteristics where... It's just a mash-up of the other minors, effectively. So you've got the officers at all the usual ranks, but inexperienced or regular, not veteran. You've got a medic, only at regular. You've got a forward observer, both and artillery, but only at regular.

And that's it, basically, for the HQ. So not a lot to write home about.

Cool, okay. What about the infantry squads and teams? Not a huge amount. We've got four in the Armies of France and Allies book.

You've got regular and inexperienced infantry sections, which are five to 11 men with the only option is to add a light machine gun for 20 points so not a huge amount of flavor there but does what it says on the tin you then got some indonesian infantry they're again five to 11 men on this one however your first five men have rifles and you're following six men are unarmed specifically having the special room special rule that they They cannot

shoot nor attack in close quarters. Their only value is as casualties. You can give them pistols, which is good. So for six points a man, you're getting six pistol-armed men, which is actually quite a nice little way to pad the unit. And you do have the option to give them a light machine gun, which you're probably not going to use for an inexperienced squad.

But you can, if you are so inclined, like traditionally a Soviet player, you can give them shirkers to take three points off per man and have a really cheap squad is this one of those stupid things where you can get for one point an unarmed shirker wasn't there a whole thing about this because they're four points for unarmed then you make them shirkers for minus three yep so you can in fact you're it's not all the men in the squad the first five men are going to be four points

a man like normal shirkers but you are right the unarmed men could be one point a man which is actually really good value however i would pay the extra two points to give them the pistols i think just so you've got tough fighters because inexperienced tough fighting shakers.

Yeah they'd be pretty interesting i mean if you took them full strength you could probably outflank them and then yeah hope they don't get four pins by the time they they hit a unit yeah which if you're outflanking they probably can get to the back lines on turn five because you're getting to re-roll the reserve check aren't you at full strength so it might be a way to run them them okay or you could just use them as a for what you're paying 20 points plus six 26 point squad yeah which would

be pretty tasty for 11 men it's like it's the same as a medic isn't it 20 26 yeah medics like 25 isn't it or so 23 25 something like that yeah i mean that is actually quite interesting although not overly useful i would say yeah i think it's one of those oh we could do some shenanigans in terms of points and all that sort of thing whether or not you should just because you can is another thing entirely.

Yeah 100 and i think this is only gonna sort of this spam a lot list is only going to happen in the unlimited platoon tournaments rather than because most tournaments are going to have one or two platoons if all you take is 26 points 11 man squads yeah you're not going to fill your points limit are you no perfect for that 600 point doubles though yeah just if you just really want that first order dice love the board yeah although you can't because you'd have

to give it back if your opponent says so well that's all right because you still got 40 dice to their 10.

Moving on moving on we've got the motorcycle section which is just like all the other motorcycle sections you're not going to take okay because it's 5 to 11 men but you're paying sort of 15 points a man for regulars and then you've got a light machine gun i i don't really see the point in motorcycles in bolt action to be honest so i'm not going to dwell too long on it sure effectively it's the alternative to buying a truck for them if you just want to dump them up

the board yeah because they haven't got a lot of special gear i don't see why you would bother with it hopefully that's a controversial opinion so someone out in the interwebs can tell me why motorcycles actually brilliant at five points a model but that's all i've got in the armies of france and allies book what have we got in the new guinea book phil so you do get a couple more infantry squads in the new guinea book these represent the knil gurus both of them are Our infantry squads,

they are both legit in a generic platoon and they're also legit in the KNIL Guerrillas Theatre Selector, which is in the New Guinea book. So the first one is the guerrilla rifle section. These ones you can take inexperienced regular or vets, so opportunity to take some vets. Five-man squad, normal costings in terms of 7, 10, 13. You can add an NCO with a submachine gun. What you can also do, and this is very similar to one of the Australian units from the New Guinea book, is add a local scout.

So for 32 points in experience, 35 regular or 38 veteran, you can add a local scout. And what this allows you to do when out flanking is to arrive on the short board edge of your choice rather than having to choose before the game begins which board edge that is going to be. Nice it's i imagine that's useful in objective missions but not really in kill points or.

No well it's certainly not gonna be useful movement ones where there is no flanking no it's also quite expensive to do that yeah but because you've got no special gear it is purely just so you can get into position isn't it the other one you've got is the guerrilla light machine gun section so despite this being a machine gun section it is actually an infantry squad squad it's a four-man base unit inexperienced regular or vet they're armed

with rifles with one person with a light machine gun obviously a second person acts as the loader you can add up to four additional men at the normal price of 7 10 or 13 you can have have a smg if you want and you can add that scout that we just mentioned as well interesting thing with this is so unlike the the Japanese MMG squad that replaces the MMG in the MMG section of the army list. This replaces it in the infantry squad.

So if you really wanted to, you could have an LMG section as an infantry squad and then also have your MMG in your normal choice. Oh, that's a shame. That was going to be my question, because having a squad in a team slot is a great way to pad out a platoon when you've got a platoon limit. And so it's a bit of a shame, actually, that they've done that, because I don't see a place for this in the infantry sections. But I do see a place for it replacing the machine gun team.

Yeah and i well if you read the fluff in the new guinea book it explains why they've done it in terms of the guerrilla sections because of how they distributed their lmgs across their infantry squads and i would imagine it that is reflected in the theater selected from.

That book so yeah 100 and i think it fits very similar in my thinking it fits very similar to the last squad where if you want something to dump on an objective from the flanks it'll do the job but i wouldn't expect any much kill and power from it no cool is that all the infantry sections from new guinea yeah that is it is that everything from new guinea in fact or do they have anything else in there no no that is it that is everything brilliant stephanie so

in that case what do they have in the team weapons in armies of france yeah so team weapons wise fairly straightforward no great shakes or surprises you can take an mmg team if you wish you can take an anti-tank rifle team you can take a sniper team you can take a medium water team and that is it what about the artillery phil anything exciting in there pretty much straightforward so you've got your light medium or heavy artillery obviously as we said

you can take the you can take a an additional artillery piece but not the heavy as part of your national rules you've got a light anti-tank gun you've got a light anti-aircraft gun and you've got a heavy anti-aircraft gun nice it's nice It's nice that they've got a heavy anti-aircraft gun. That's quite rare. There is, I did note, one interesting thing on their artillery. Which is because they're so outdated, these artillery pieces, you never range in. That is interesting.

Although it is only if you pay the extra points or...

Not pay the extra points reduce the points cost okay yeah so you can buy it normally or you can reduce the points cost to add the severely outdated rule which is the one that meant means they don't range in so i could for my free one i could choose to have an outdated one or i could choose to have a up-to-date state-of-the-art one i would imagine so yeah it doesn't there's no there's no limits is there on the free artillery piece in terms of it has to reflect

what you've already bought no no so i suppose what you could do is you could pair a free medium up-to-date artillery piece yeah with an out-of-date heavy artillery slightly cheaper yeah slightly cheaper but you get additional crew for that i'm not sure it's worth saving 15 points though when you're on already.

115 points in on the heavy artillery piece and i guess if you do that though you're you're going to use one as direct fire and one is indirect fire aren't you so you're you're outdated one is going to be your static direct firing gun to you know to close down the firing lane and then you might use your indirect not outdated one to start ranging in that's exactly what i was thinking i was thinking if you are going to pair the medium with

the heavy you put that heavy sort of alongside a building let's say with its extra crew out of date so you're saving a bit of points and then the medium behind so you can recrew you're doing the whole 12 inch recrew yeah yeah yeah exactly And you could even actually pay for the veteran for the one that's going to be outdated. It's going to work out about the same cost. A veteran outdated is going to cost about the same as a regular up-to-date.

And so you can start adding the veteracy level to when you start re-crewing. Yeah, exactly. I imagine there's probably even better shenanigans for players of the armies of the Netherlands. I imagine I've thought of even wilder shenanigans than what I've just thought up there. But there we go. I think other than the out-of-date cannons, it's fairly mundane so far, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah. but we're about to move into vehicles okay just glancing over i can see there's a wide selection cool okay johnny so why don't you take us through the armored cars then armored cars certainly so you've got the the landverk armored car which is 135 points regular it is a recce vehicle and it's not open topped which is very nice for those 135 points you're getting a light anti-tank gun with a coax mmg and a hull mmg but in addition to

that you're also getting a rear-facing hull mmg so actually you're getting three mmgs there yeah admittedly they can't all shoot the same thing because one of them's facing backwards yeah but it's an interesting one to sort of just drive up the table and sort of pirouette around spraying bullets yeah okay. On the theme of MMGs, they've got the Marmon Harrington, which we all know and love. So a recce, 80 points, armour 7, a pair of MMGs in the turret.

It's interesting in the armies of France and the Allies, it does specify, it's not a restriction, but in the fluff it does say, this was not used in Europe, this is used by the KNIL. So if you do want to theme your generic platoon to a theatre.

Or a theatre of operation, not a theatre selector, in bolt action you do get some guidance in the book yeah that's good stuff and then you've got the, Alva Straussler armoured car and again it says the same thing doesn't it not in Europe on that one turret MMG and a hull MMG so very similar same points cost same recce same armour so it, To be honest, I'd probably go for the Mormon. Because of that pad, yeah. Although I actually haven't said that. The Alvas can put out two pins per turn.

You can put out separate pins, yeah. That's an interesting choice to make. But I suppose it depends what else is in your list as to whether you need to put out the second pin or whether you want the full 360 on both guns. But moving on, you can save yourself 10 points by taking the, what's that, the overall wagon. Overall wagon, yeah.

The overall wagon. it's probably a better way of pronouncing that but yeah yeah i imagine it's something like overall wagon i don't know but it's a patrol truck so armor 7 70 points pintle covering the front and both sides but not the rear you can actually upgrade it with a full pintle for 360 for five points i don't think i would to be honest i think i'd save the five points and you can make it an an hmg for 10 points probably won't but it'd be nice to pin some armor but the

fun begins when you can add two additional pintle mmgs they are a bit of a faff because they're sort of left and right and rear and rear yeah but i suppose because it's recce you could actually drive it around backwards and have all three mmgs shooting rearwards you could yes yeah there is an option for that. Yeah. It is open top though so you are going to take the pins. Yeah. Yeah, it's a risky one but I think there's.

That truck has some merit i think potentially it is starting to get a bit pricey when you put all the guns on it's 100 points and with it being open top bit of a risky proposition but i imagine you're going to have a lot of fun with it and then the final armored car on a similar theme it's open top this one isn't recce though it's the the word that we don't know how to pronounce the overall wagon yeah the overall wagon this one's a navy gun truck not because

it goes in in the sea or anything i don't know it's just because it's got a gun on the back of it yeah yeah yeah and it's a rear-facing light howitzer this navy gun and but it also keeps a front-facing vickers mmg armor 7 as i said open topped not a huge fan of that to be honest.

Because without the recce having to reverse up to shoot you like howitzer is a risky proposition yeah yeah also quite tricky to get the angles on when it's rear-facing and you haven't got recce because you can't turn and reverse. So that's all the armoured cars. What about in the tank slot, Phil? Lots of fun to be had there? I wouldn't say lots.

Fun, probably, but not lots. So you've got your Vickers Light Tank, which is, as you see it in the British list, it's an inexperienced regular or veteran. It has a turret-mounted HMG, a coaxial MMG. It's a 7-plus armoured car. You can replace the coax for twin HMG for plus 10 points.

You can make it amphibious as well if you want to. that's interesting because the hmg coax mmg combo because because you can't fire them both it seems like a bit of a waste but twin hmg is interesting now i imagine because it's twinned you'd have to fire at the same target so you're you're not putting out separate pins but that ability to put six shots with minus one penetration depending on your or plus one penetration sorry depending upon your range could be interesting if you can get into the

side doesn't have recce though so. No, but it does have amphibious for five points, so you could catch them off guard by driving at them from the sea. Yeah, true. If you don't want to do that, though, you might want to take a Cardan Lloyd Tankette, which is 44 points in experience, 55 points regular. It's a 7-plus open-topped, forward-facing, hole-mounted MMG. That's it.

Straightforward. Good fun. I mean, 55 points isn't a lot of points to pay for a machine gun pillbox. And then your last one is the Marmon Herrington CTLS, which is an American-made light tank rather than the British version. This has two forward-facing hull-mounted MMGs and one turret-mounted MMG for 7-plus damage value, armoured carrier. I really like this. I mean, three MMGs for 80 points, all pointing in the same direction as well, importantly.

I think that's got some legs, that one. one what's interesting is there is no at other than your hmg there's no at capability in your tanks and in your armored cars it's just that first one the landsverk armored car or if you want to take the naval gun everything else is effectively just mmgs yeah that is it is really interesting i was thinking about myself first there's really it's not often you see the tanks having no anti-tank no and the anti-tank being found elsewhere

but in a game with a lot of infantry a lot of mmgs really goes a long way and so i'm actually a big fan of them yeah and if you a lot of these vehicles obviously reflect the the pacific theater rather than the european theater and that's exactly what you found you didn't have big tanks in opposition it was a lot of infantry therefore mmgs and hmgs would have been perfectly fine historically so yeah shall we move on to transport sir are we going to see some at options in the transports johnny.

Spoilers but yes the transports the the dutch really book the trend with so the miners i always complain don't have machine guns on trucks that's always my common complaint yeah bizarrely with the dutch they might even have too many guns on the transports is that possible not for me but i think for a man that runs dodge trucks all the time with mmgs on them maybe even hmgs is that possible it's well it's choice isn't it you know the classic what is it the anyway i

think you are spoiled for choice and it's going to lead to indecision so i'm going to jump straight in with the most exciting unit the they have a light truck that carries 12 men 39 points regular yeah which isn't that exciting yet but just wait you can have a pintle mmg for 15 points standard and what's more you can bang an additional two pintle mmgs on it so you can have a truck with three mmgs admittedly the additional two can only shoot right left rear but that coming in from the outflank or

even just driving up the middle of the board three pins out not a bad little option that there's a bit like the half tracks isn't it but without paying the extra points for the carrier yeah yeah yeah i'm the tricky part is i don't know what i'm putting in this truck when i rushed up the board no but if again if you want to just treat it as a pillbox put it behind a wall.

Yeah and sort of you've got all three sides covered on a funny angle yeah not bad i i'm probably not going to do that to be honest but it's nice to have the option yeah now the next one's interesting isn't it the the utility the the light utility trucks and cars do you want to talk us through that one so these are the ones that are really interesting so your a basic option it's inexperienced regular veteran 17 21 25 points it's a soft skin and it can take three men so far pretty meh

however you can add various options you can add a pencil mounted mmg for plus 15 points you can then upgrade it to an hmg for an additional 10 points you could add another two additional pencil mounted mmgs covering the right and rear left and rear for 15 points each or and this is where it gets really interesting you can add a forward facing or rear facing hole mounted light anti-tank gun for plus 50 points finally in the transport section we find some decent at yeah and what's amazing

well what i think is amazing is because it doesn't lose its transport capacity you could take.

Basically as many as as you've got yeah yeah because you can take that 26 point squad and then take a 71 points regular truck with a light only tank gun yeah maybe he's even pushed the boat out for the machine gun as well 86 points so what's that you're now 112 points in two order dice you are going to need to put someone in the in the vehicle to fire both aren't you because it can only fire one that's a good point that is a very good point so what i'll do is i'll let them die quickly so

they get down to three men and then jump in oh it's a real shame actually that like machine gun squad is four men rather because we could have snuck them in i suppose actually you've made a good point there maybe it's just not worth paying for the pintle machine gun no but the ability for 71 points to take a transport which has a forward facing like at when you haven't got a lot of at elsewhere it's obviously not what they were designed to do but if you wanted to you can

you can so choose given the options yeah yeah and it's quite useful because you can shoot it with a one-inch shell and that gives you the d2 pins as well so you can use it as a bit of an anti-infantry threat bit of a sort of even if you can't kill the tanks with a light anti-tank gun you could just start pinning them down so it's a really interesting choice.

I think it would probably be the way i would build this army just for fun to have five or six of these fellas and to be fair that is how you like to play your americans isn't it in terms of soft skins with big guns be that mmgs on dodges or the uh the little light at dodge what's it what's it called oh the m6 gmc or the m6 gmc yeah that's how you like to build your your americans sometimes yeah that's exactly what how i'm seeing this truck as a gmc an m6

gmc but with an additional transport capacity it does make it a bit vulnerable to be installed that's the only thing but i mean i'll have five others so you're welcome to steal one as long as they're not in a live so that one goes the other four go as a consequence yeah anyway if you want to you could take a jeep and you could stick an mmg on it and lose your transport capacity because it's not like you haven't got a lot of options for mmgs elsewhere in the list i don't understand why they added

this entry to be honest because, why would you take I suppose it defends you against that being stolen option but it does move it to the armoured car slot yeah I suppose, actually, there is a place for it there if you just want to save points on your armoured car, but you do want a machine gun in that slot. True. You could take a tractor, if you want, the Trado tractor. You could also take a GMC tractor. They're both tractors. And six plus.

You could take a Vickers Utility tractor, which is a tractor, but seven plus. Well, the GMC and the Trado, the GMC can be inexperienced.

That's the only difference between them, isn't it? and then so 15 points for a regular gmc or 40 point oh sorry 50 points for regular vicars but no no weapons so it's quite a lot of points to spend yeah just to get that seven plus first versus the six plus yeah especially because the gmc can drag any gun whereas the vicars is limited to medium anti-tank or light howitzers so that that vicars can't even tow the the free medium howitzer you got now what you can do is get the m3 white scout car

which is a 69 points in experience 86 regular or 103 veteran that comes with a pintle mounted hmg covering the forward arc it's a seven plus armored carrier with eight men if you want to you can add a couple of additional pintle mounted mmgs and if you also want to you can remove the transport capacity and give it recce which will then shove it into the armored car slot but that's where you can get your seven plus recceed hmg with up to two more mmg dacca armored cars

if you so wish yeah it's exactly the same as the us entry and i've i really like the model and i like the idea of this vehicle but i've never really found a use case for it because it's just a little bit pricey i'm gonna have to try them at at some point i think just because they've always been on my agenda but i don't think there's a place for especially in this army where there's lots of other fun things in the transport slot.

Yeah and then the last one is your overall wagen apc which effectively is a german 250 slash one.

Hanamag so it's 74 points regular for a seven plus armor carrier for 12 men the reason why it's only 74 is it doesn't come with the mmg but you can add add the mmg on for 10 points to get it up to 84 and then effectively it's a 12-man half-track with an mmg yeah nice enough yeah i mean it's over-costed in the same way most of the half-tracks are yeah again i've got an issue with this army where he's paying all these points of transport that really don't have a use case for because,

all you've got is like machine guns so you really want them to stay back and just spray at long distance so it's bizarre that we've got so many transport options from a game perspective we've got so many transport options and not much fun stuff to transport. What you don't have are AT grenades either. So it's not even like you can tool up one of your squads of AT grenades and use them as anti-tank options.

Yeah. And no SMGs because of the sort of the lack of equipment due to the policy of neutrality. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's weird that you don't even get flamethrowers. Like they're not even. No. Couldn't even stockpile them from sort of World War I surplus. There's just not an existence. So really, I think you want to keep people back.

So you're only buying transports in order to have more guns is what i'm thinking here yeah if you like daca this could be the army for you with with a twist yeah yeah and it it's an interesting one i'm i think it has legs this army but i'm not sure how well you could play it sort of as a new player to it i think yeah there's a lot of fun to be had and a lot of gaming of the system as it were yeah but I think it's going to require sort of a lot of practice with this army.

So if you went to one of those events where you have like the 750-1250 split and your first option can't take anything above 6+, you could put a lot of MGs into this list. Problem is, if you've got to take the same nation at 1250, you're really going to struggle when you boost it to that level. But if you were playing some kind of recon patrol or nothing over armor 6.

Actually you can stick a lot of shots out with this list oh 100 and it's the infantry that's letting it down i think yeah yeah if you took the transport options and put them in a different nation that could have maybe stubborn or tough fighters or something yeah this would be really powerful and it's so it's just sort of on the edge of becoming a competitive force for me but anyway what sort of selectors have we got you have a you have a grand choice of three.

So you've got one that reflects the western front right at the start of the war you've got one that reflects the pacific theater and then in new guinea you've got the gorilla selector as well interesting yeah they're all fairly straightforward given that given the choices we just talked through there isn't anything that sort of really jumps out in my view on any of them no i agree the only thing that's interesting is if you are doing this

in the theaters only and you do the Battle of the Netherlands. You can't arm the trucks okay which means that actually the thing that we were just raving about yeah ignore the last 10 minutes yeah if if theaters ignore the last 10 minutes if generic.

Rewind yeah but you're absolutely right other than that it's fairly standard choices with sort of the main perk being you can have one more infantry section so if you're limited to a single platoon yeah you can throw in that 26 point squad the the guerrillas do get some interesting interesting special rules in in new guinea in terms you get field craft which is where where you can set up hidden and an ambush and you can also run through rough ground you get

infiltration which affects your outflanking and you get the isolated resistance rule which means that any veteran units count as stubborn and jungle warfare masters but they're also exhausted the reason why you wouldn't do it is your basic options are infantry a light mortar team and nought three sniper teams so what so you got 90 tank you got nothing no no because they're guerrillas fighting obviously behind enemy lines japanese invasion they didn't have

a lot of tanks in the pacific they didn't need to these are just you know annoying pockets of resistance rather than concentrated coordinated attacks that's crazy yeah mad that's gonna be really hard to fill the points on yeah like you're gonna struggle to get past a thousand points if even to a thousand yeah yeah i suppose if you take them all fun full strength veteran you probably get there on a whim and a prayer yeah i mean those that's those special

rules are fun as well but they're not again they're not hugely competitive because you don't have much in the list to to sort of use those rules no cool so phil. I'm all excited to play dutch now where can i buy my models.

So they haven't got a huge number of choices the ones to look at are may 40. And you get some... And if you're in the UK, you can get them through Great Escape Games. So they have...

Small selection but you know probably sufficient in terms of infantry squads and so on and they recently released a kickstarter or they're in the process of that they're actually in the middle of the kickstarter for the knil units and options which look pretty cool to be fair nice i mean you also get quite a lot of stls out there as well i know on the light utility trucks there are stls on wargaming 3d a lot of them so i think dewey cat does one for about five dollars the stl

and obviously you get the file and then you can print as many of them as you want yeah that's probably the way i would go personally i i don't like to 3d print troops but for the vehicles i think i'm gonna be because i actually don't know where else i can get the models from if i'm looking for the the sort.

Of the peculiar dutch trucks yeah i imagine a lot of kit bashing and like you said a lot of stls 3d printing and so on niche effectively yeah a lot of fun i imagine as a sort of a hobby project yeah no definitely as a project i can i can see it being interesting yeah and we've got quite a lot of sort of loaned vehicles as well so you have got options there of buying sort of the marman herrington or the the white scout car yeah the lloyd carrier as well yes if

you're doing the the early war western front yeah then you obviously got your early war british options and then you got a few more later on in terms of us options and for the kn il nice well phil what do you reckon you're going to start a dutch army no that was quite definitive it was quite definitive that that wasn't my no but actually i will go and do it down the line this was a no i'm not going to.

Why not there's no hook for me yet based on what i have read and seen yeah you see for me i actually have considered this one before yeah well we've talked about the three-man vehicles with the forward-facing ats haven't we yeah and i think that the two barriers for me are the historically it's been the lack of minis so it's always been sort of a it makes it a bigger project than starting a different nation and then you've also got the those transports seem like

brilliant the idea of having a transport with like any tank gun but then once you start to think about well what's your actual infantry that's going to win you the game yeah it starts to get a little bit more precarious the battle plan and so that those are my two main barriers historically for the dutch but i think i imagine someone who's been playing these quite a while would do really well with them in even in the competitive tournaments because we see a lot of sort of armory tanks which the

light anti-tank guns ideal for taking on we did see one at the welsh open two years ago i want to say 2022 gentleman brought them and definitely wasn't at the bottom after five games brilliant so if there are players out there who are successfully running dutch armies please do Do drop us a message or put a comment on the Facebook post when we launch this episode.

We'd be interested to hear what you do, how you build it, and where you get your minis from. Yeah, and I look forward to seeing any photos that you share on the post. It's always nice when we do the armies and people share their actual armies, especially these ones that we really don't see very often. It's really nice to see all the ways you've sort of kit-bashed models, etc. Absolutely. And in the spirit of sharing, do please like, share, and subscribe. Ta-ta for now. Ta-ta for now. Music.