The Disappearance of Tiffany Whitton : Part 2

this is Sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. Every lead that has been followed in, every person who's come forward, and every little bit of evidence leads one place, then that's actually called m M hi. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. On this episode of Sworn, we continued delving into the Tiffany within disappearance. We've seen the walmart In first, and we've gone through the timeline as best as we know it to be. We now have a better idea of

who Tiffany is. Now it's time to talk about what is being done a little over four years later to keep this case actually alive. This is Sworn. I'm Jesse Evans, I'm chief Assistant District Attorney with the Cobb d A's office. My I have the opportunity to sit down with both Prosecutor Jesse Evans and to Afy's mother, Lisa Daniels, and we were able to discuss this case as a group. Is everybody basically working off the presumption that this is

a homicide at this point. At this point, there's no other reasonable explanation for what could have happened to Tiffany, So we are treating it as an active homicide investigation, looking at all the circumstances surrounding her disappearance, in the complete lack of contact that anyone has had with her since her disappearance in September of two thousand and fourteen. I don't think there's any way for us to look at this objectively and see that it needs to be

treated in any other way. Is there any specific set of criteria that you used to decide when the treat a missing person's case is a homicide or is it sort of a totality of the circumstances. I think it's

really got to be a totality of the circumstances. Um you know, every case is a little bit different, and while open to the possibility that certain people might in some instances want to make themselves scarce, they mightn't want to go live a different lifestyle, there are certainly circumstances you can look at that show that, well, that person is still around, that person's still able to be found if somebody wanted to find them, and this is not

one of those cases. There have been similar cases I've worked on where you just look at all the facts and circumstances and you realize something is wrong here, something is different than your normal situation, where perhaps a person is involved in this drug culture and immerse themselves in such a way that they don't want to be found by a loved one. This is simply not the case with Tiffany Winton. There's always challenges when you're dealing with

cold cases in general. There are added challenges when there's been a delay in US being able to get involved in the investigation, and I think that's one of the

biggest challenges that we started off with. You know, I personally get involved in these major crimes investigations very early on, and early on for us was not until after January of two thousand and fourteen unfortunately, and by that time, there have been some months that had passed before she had disappeared, and that creates a lot of issues for us, a lot of legal and factual issues for cold case investigators and prosecutors such as myself to go back and

try to piece together and a quick timeline of of what could have happened. We have a unique circumstance here where we actually have video footage of the last time that Tiffany Witten was known to be alive, and that creates a good starting point for where we need to go from there to figure out what were the last moments like, what were the last hours like with her before she essentially disappeared from the face of the earth, And people don't just disappear from the face of the earth.

What additional challenges can arise due to a delay in reporting? Sure, I think probably a lot of your listeners and a lot of the general public are familiar with the show the First forty eight And there's a lot to be said about the first forty eight reality based TV show where they talk about the importance of the first forty eight hours of an investigation, and and I would agree with the premise that early on in the investigation. That's when you're right to get clues that could assist with

a criminal investigation. We had a compounding problem with the beginning of this investigation in that um she she had already sort of been living in this this culture where she didn't have very much contact with family members and loved ones. Add to it that she was admittedly involved in the crime shoplifting caught on video at a Walmart locally and probably had some concerns about that. Then you add to it that there's a delay in reporting, and

then once it is reported. I don't fault my investigators for this, but there's a kind of a skepticism that sometimes law enforcement as when they first look at these cases and see, well, here's a person that's got a criminal history and admittedly has been involved in the drug scene for some period of time. Here is this merely a missing person's case or something more sinister going on.

So it wasn't until we really started appealing the layers of the young that we started to realize, Hey, something happened in September of two thousand and thirteen, and all the red flags are there. What do we know about the last known moments of her life on video. We saw her with her then boyfriend, individual named Ashley Caudle. They were at a local Walmart city of Marietta about two o'clock in the morning. By just a lay persons observations, it was clear that she was probably on drugs at

the time and he probably was too. She's there for some period of time, going through clothing gracks and things like that, and eventually gets to the checkout location. It's one of those areas where you can check out on your own, you don't need a customer service representative to help you. And this entire time not known to her, but there were lost prevention officers that were watching her in the store. That would be easy to do considering

how early morning hour than this was. There weren't rent many people in the store anyway. So what happened is she attempted to steal something, something minor. It was. I think it's probably worth fourteen eighteen dollars from what Loss Prevention has told me. And as she passed the point of sale and was about to leave the store, she was approached by two loss prevention officers who attempting to

detain her. They did so as is their practice and custom by grabbing an item of hers knowing that she probably wouldn't want to leave it, that being a purse, you could see that she literally left out of a sandal and left out of her purse and ran out into the darkness through the doors of the Walmart and out into the parking lot. Her boyfriend remained for just a brief moment at the doorway, then he turned and

walked out into the darkness as well. And that's the last firm independent documentation of her life, this event that just happened to have been caught on Walmart surveillance video because of the fact that she was admittedly committing this misdemean or crime of shoplifting at two o'clock in the morning, and are there videos in the parking lot? You know, we attempted to get videos in the parking lot and we were not successful in getting them understand this too.

It was my understanding loss prevention called law enforcement. They did cursory check into this. I don't even know that a full police report was made, but nobody really realized what the gravity of the situation was. So it was some months afterwards before we even got involved that we even wanted to go back and look at any of the video. Unfortunately for us, the inside video was retained

because they had kept this as a shoplifting investigation. But we're not successful in getting any exterior video because nobody realized what the significance of that might be for lost prevention. Just like regular law enforcement, you want to keep the evidence that as most probative, and obviously any evidence catching somebody on video committing a shoplifting committing a crime, that's going to be important for them, and they're gonna automatically

retain that. But most stores do not to retain all video that they have for their store for an indefinite period of time. It's kept for a finite period of time, takes up a lot of space in their databases. Oftentimes it's on a loop, it actually starts recording over itself. So we attempted to get video from the exterior of the Walmart, and we just weren't successful. Of course, there was this pretty significant delay before we realized that that

might be of importance to us. But for the fact that there was a shoplifting involved, we might not have even been able to catch these moments um inside the store. They were retained for any future criminal prosecution if it ever developed. She's an adult, you know, she's not a child. I kind of was of the same mind as law enforcement in the beginning that she was shoplifting. We found that out, so we knew that she had gotten caught shoplifting at Walmart. So she's on for all. So what's

my first instinct. She's laying low. She knows she's gonna be in trouble. So there was really no reason for us to be alarmed initially. But that said, I mean, I would encourage anybody now, knowing what I know now, that if they have an adult child in this situation, drug life, whatever the case may be, and you haven't heard from them, and you can't put eyes on them or hear their voice. I don't care about text messages, hear their voice, or put eyes on them, you should

report the missing. If I had it to go back and do over again, I would change the way I did it. However, I don't think law enforcement would have been inclined to investigate at that point either. The first flag that went up was when my parents received a letter that was from Walmart's attorneys. This is the standard procedure for Walmart. If you get caught shop lift thing, you'll get a letter from their attorneys saying, pay us

some money and we won't follow any civil charges. That makes it look like they'll drop the charges, but they're just promising not to follow a civil suit if you pay them restitution. So two of those letters came to my parents home because that was the address that was listed on her driver's license, which they had because they had her purse. Okay, so they knew who she was. That's one reason why they didn't really go after her was because they had her purse. They knew who she was.

So I want to follow up with that real quick. Why would they be seeking restitution when she didn't get away from the store with any property. I don't know. That's a good question, maybe one you should ask them. I don't know. Do you know, either of you why Walmart didn't call nine one one or call the police to report. I think that they did call the police. I believe Mary had a police were dispatched, but they didn't do They're not going to do an all outsearch

for a petty shoplifter. I mean, they're just not going to do that, especially when they've got other things going on, and nobody got away with any property exactly, and they had her purse. They knew who she was. I don't know the intent to prosecute. I really don't know where it was going to go from there. What happened to Ashley Caudle that evening that morning? Looking at the video, we know that he went out into the parking lot, and we know that he interacted with some people that

he knew that we're around that area. This is not an area that was unfamiliar to him and unfamiliar to the Tiffany. They both spent some periods of time around this area before, as well as in the Powder Springs area, So we know that he had some interactions with some individuals into the morning hours who saw him there. We have not found anyone that saw her there at that area after she left the walmart. Well, that walmart is just a mile or so away from here, and it's

not exactly out of the way location. It's a lot of people of I guess from all walks of life, would go there, but maybe just not at two o'clock in the more. It's a pretty busy area around the walmart. There's a lot of restaurants, a lot of extended stay motels, and we do have in terms of drug arrest it's an area where we make on a significant amount of arrests for drug possession and drug use, particularly the extended

state motels. So it is a populated area, but there are little pockets as well, just off the more populated areas where you can find some quiet space. So there's a lot of I was driving by there of the other day and I just happened to notice because I wanted to look, but I noticed that there's a lot of businesses that likely have some type of exterior surveillance cameras, banks,

you've got a t m S in the area. Have all those things been checked In an ideal situation, had we known on September thirteenth or September fourteenth of two thousand and thirteen that this was going to turn into what it was, we would have hit all those locations

for any potential surveillance. But going back to one of the issues we had discussed previously about retention and business retention of surveillance, we've not been successful and being able to get any usable surveillance video with the delay in time from when this investigation change, which really wasn't until around January of two thousand and fourteen. It's been my experience that businesses just don't keep surveillance material unless they

need to for more than about a month. That's correct. It's been my experience too. You know. I almost wish in many instances we could go back to some of our businesses and ask them to use, first of all, more modern systems. Secondly, asked them to have a longer retention policy. But it's just not feasible for some of these businesses to be able to do that, and it

does complicate things. I think the general public watches TV and they they imagine that because there's a camera on every corner um that somehow magically we're able to tap into a master database and be able to download that footage at will. And it's just simply not the case

in the reality of law enforcement. Unless you happen to have a business entity that's interested in retaining something for some particular reason, such as it containing evidence of a shoplifting, then it's more likely than not with time, the passage of time, you're not gonna be able to get the surveillance. And that's what we have here? Why was it that nobody was able to paying her cell phone to triangulate

her location because she didn't have it with her. I read something in another media report, and I forget which one it was. I read that at some point in time, someone, if I'm not mistake, it was in your family, felt that she had reached out to them over social media or was it by text? There actually was a Facebook message sent to her half brother on his birthday, but when he messaged back to say, you know, hey, what's up?

Where are you? There was never any response. Someone from her Facebook account sent a message to her half brother saying happy birthday. The key is we don't know for sure who actually sent that because she did not have her phone. Let me ask you this, would anybody who had her phone been able to access her Facebook account? Yes?

I did access her Facebook account, and when I opened it there were hundreds of unread messages, notifications, friend requests, hundreds, so I knew that she had not accessed her Facebook. The issue is then that someone that probably wasn't her, and it wasn't you, accessed her Facebook account and send a message after she was reported missing, but nothing before

she was reported missing. We've had a number of leads, I'll go as far to say false leads that have come up over the years, and we look into everything. One of them, we attempted to look into that lead pretty good and we just don't have any reason to believe that that was a message from Tiffany to her

half brother. There's no evidence to support that, um and not not to call anyone out, but there's been a lack of cooperation on the part of maybe some of her family members as well, who are more on the fringes to help us and involve investigating looking some of those leads as well, which is even more evidence that they're they're probably false leads. You know, she left Walmart when she ran out those doors, she had no idea, no phone, no shoes. What do we know about the

last a twelve hours before she went missing? Just to summarize, he talked about it being a fairly normal period of time with himself and Tiffany prior to the Walmart incident. He gave us a bit of a timeline of different places he had been a house, a friend's house, using the friends pickup truck. Talked about the events in the Walmart, a lot of which, like I said, we're captured on videos, so some of it we could we could look at pretty quickly and be able to compare to his statement UM.

And then his assertion about what happened afterwards was that she ran out of the walmart and he just never saw her again. That he claimed he attempted to find her, claimed that he searched the area. He admitted to some of the people that he had talked to UM, many of whom we've now spoken with and UM. His his assertion is that he tried his best to find her to and wasn't able to do so. Did he say what he did, like, did he say that I went to the ihup or I went to this place or

that place? Was he specific or was he general? He was UM, both general and specific. Generally, he said I looked for UM. When pressed on the specifics, he admit that he went to um uh an I Hoop, which is at that location. He happened to know somebody there who ran into him at at the location. UM, so we were able to talk to her and confirm that UM.

His claim was that he called for a friend and that he wrote around with a friend for a while looking for her and UM, so there were a mix of of some specifics and some generalities about what had occurred. But ultimately what he said basically was that despite his attempts to find her, UH, he wasn't able to get in touch with her. What were you able to do with regard to her phone records that may have added

anything to what you know? We've gone through phone records extensively, and from a modern law enforcement perspective, that's almost always a good starting place is looking at phone records, UH, cell tower analysis, those types of things. And we did that not only with her phone, UM, we did that with a number of other target cell phones as well, and UM there wasn't a whole lot of activity that

was beneficial to us. I think people have this misconception that as long as you're carrying your phone, there's gonna be activity on it. That sometimes the case and sometimes not kind of depends on whether you have apps open, whether there are things run in the background, whether you're actively texting somebody or making phone calls. But when there's limited activity, there's going to be limited information that you're able to get back from the cell companies as well.

But part of my responsibility is the head of the cold case unit, is to make sure that my guys, my investigators are looking at all that cell phone evidence. And over the years we have repeatedly looked at, analyzed, and reanalyzed the cell phone evidence. Um so far it has not yielded, uh anything that's a smoking gun, so

to speak. As to explaining the mystery of how she disappeared, it's my understanding that she may have had some issues with paying her her cell phone bill, so most of her contact with the outer world was actually by by Facebook messaging at least until September thirteenth of two thousand thirteen, and then the Facebook messaging essentially stopped. Do you know about how old Tiffany was when she started on the path that led her to that walmart In, I really

couldn't say. I mean, she had issues honestly from middle school um behavioral issues and hanging with the wrong people. There were no instances of drinking, drugs anything like that when she was younger. It wasn't really until she was away from home and still kind of hanging around people she shouldn't have been hanging around. And I think by the time I realized that I really knew that she was into drugs. She was really into drugs by that point, so she she had done a pretty good job for

quite a while of hiding it pretty well. Um. The one time that I suspected there was something going on, um, you know, I had her daughter and I had told her, you need to come and take her to the doctor. It's time for her check up. I have to work. You need to come and take her. She's your child, Come take her to the doctor. Oh yeah, no problem, no problem. So she comes down the night before, spends the night, and I find out when I get home the next day that she had slept the entire day

and almost completely missed the appointment. I found this out from my young daughter, who basically had to watch her little niece all day while Tiffany slept. And I knew. I knew then that there was that wasn't right. How old was her daughter when she disappeared, Um, she was six. Did she still have any interaction with her daughter? Not really? Um, because of the drug situation. You know, it was just such a tough call. We didn't really know what to

do in that situation. You know, she's using drugs, she's unstable, she's in and out. We don't know when she's gonna be here when she's not, and this is a little child who doesn't understand. So it was you know, that was a tough call to keep her away, but we did keep her away. But the goal was at some point to have them, you know, interact until hopefully, at some point Tiffany got clean and could parent her. That was the ultimate goal. This will never be a case

that's gonna simply gather dust. We're always working on this one. Sometimes we have cases that are very uh, forensic driven. Um, it's a DNA type case, it's a ballistics type case. Uh. Sometimes you have cases that are are very different from that that our statements driven. Where really the key to the understanding the case and getting answered this is going to be people and and and people talking with us.

And UM, I think the number one thing that we continue to do is to interview and re interview people, and we've been doing that for literally years right now, and UM, part of the reason, quite frankly, that I'm sitting down with you right now feels because UM, I feel like there is more out there to this case that the public knows. And some segments of the public that are just not comfortable coming forward right now for whatever reason. Maybe it's fear, maybe maybe it's some other motivation.

But I've always believed that the more publicity we can get for the case, and the more we can put our cold cases, the units availability to talk out there, that more information is going to come in. And that's exactly what's happened over the years. This is gonna boil down to people finally feeling comfortable with sharing information with us that maybe they've held close to their chest for for literally years. And I truly believe, in my heart of hearts, I know that there are people out there

that no more information about this case. They may even be people that we've already talked to before UM, but I suspect there's probably some people out there that we haven't talked to yet. And UM We're always listening. Every every time we get a name, every time we get a tip UM, we go out and we talk to

that person. A lot of the tips UM come quite frankly because of Lisa and her tenacity, and she's been very tenacious about keeping this information out there and keeping her ears open, whether it's through Facebook, the fine Tiffany witness page. Whatever that means maybe of communicating with us. If people are going to share information with us, we're gonna follow up on it. How often do you get tips or new information that needs to be followed up with?

It comes fairly regularly, and this case is coming fairly regularly. It would be unusual, certainly for a month to go by where we didn't get a new tip, but it's not uncommon for us to get multiple tips within a week or two week period of time. UM. A lot of it's coming from social media, a lot of it's coming from Facebook, A lot of it's going directly to Lisa and uh, Lisa's then forwarding onto to myself and

my cold case unit led by John Dawes. I believe that there are people out there that know more than they've shared with us, and um, they may not even know that what what they hold is significant. They're involved in drug use, they're involved in illegal activity. A lot of these folks and UM there that doesn't make them very particularly willing to pick up the phone and say, hey, police,

come talk to me. I know that a lot of people, I think question, why would you spend so much time trying to find somebody who clearly, you know, had her issues. She had drug issues, she had a criminal past. But you know that's not how I view her. You know, she's still my child, my baby, and um she's you know, she's a human being, and she is worthy of of being found. And she has a little girl who needs some answers. She has a family who need answers um

as to as to what happened to her. Anybody wouldn't want that, you know, I would just say to to anybody who might hear this, please, you know, just come forward. I don't care how you do it. Write a letter, make an anonymous call if you're afraid. I get that, but it is the right thing to do, and right now,

we just need somebody to do the right thing. Um. Just as a personal matter, if you walked in my office right now, you would have to pass by no less than four or five pictures of Tiffany Witten that are hanging on my door. I see her every day then I walk into the office. I see her every day when I turn off my light and head home. The frustrating part about this case, though, is I really

believe it's going to be solved with statements. It's going to be solved with somebody feeling comfortable to come forward, maybe even someone we've already talked to feeling more comfortable to share, um, the truth about what they know and um, this is not a situation. Just look at it. At it objectively. Where Tiffany was out camping and disappeared in the woods. She rendered out of a crowded walmart into

a crowded area of the city of Marietta and then disappeared. Jessie, if if anybody has any information or feels like they want to contact you, guys, what do they need to do. We've set up a tipline for a cold case unit and that number is seven seven zero five to eight three zero three to. We just encourage anyone with the general public who knows information about this case of contact our cold case units so we can follow up on that. That number again, seven seven zero five to eight three

zero three to. All I'm asking is for somebody to to just do the right thing. Be that person who gives a family closure and can answer a little girl's question about his MO mommy dad, because that's what she asked, is MO mommy dead? How do you answer that? To a child when you don't know, I mean, we haven't had. She's been to a funeral for her grandmother. She knows her grandmother's dad, she knows her grand mother's in heaven, both of them, so she knows that she doesn't know

where mommy is. And that's unfair. That is unfair. It's absolutely heartbreaking. Talking to Tiffany's mother as a parent, I simply cannot wrap my head around the grief that she must have experienced and that she's still experiencing today. Now Lisa Daniels is the legal guardian of Tiffany's own daughter. I cannot even imagine what this must be like for Lisa not to have the answers for her granddaughter when she asked the question where is my mother? Hey, guys,

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Zola dot com slash sworn. I've actually been to the website and I really wish you been there when I got married, So go to Zola dot com slash sworn for your special offer. We've seen other missing persons cases that might be simply gathering dust on a shelf. So let's ask the question, is this case gathering dust? Has enough been done to keep it alive? And fresh? Assistant District Attorney Jesse Evans put his trust in John Dawes at the Cold Case Unit to take this case over.

We sat down and spoke to John to get a feel for what exactly is being done right now, as well as to ask him what we might be able to do to help our hope in all these unsolved cases is that we can spur discussion and remind people to come forward if they know anything at all. And I promise you somebody somewhere does know something. And just so the records clear. To answer my own question, I'm satisfied that this is one case that is not simply

gathering dust. It is actually being worked, and it's being worked actively. When did you start on Tiffany's case? About a year and a half ago. Uh. We met with Marietta Um the chief Assistant District Attorney. Jesse Evans has kind of been alongside the case since UM January of two thousand and fourteen. UH, and he's a liaison between us and the police agencies here in Cobb County. So UM between a year and a half and two years ago, they kind of consulted with us and asked us to

take a look at everything. They provided us with a complete copy of the file and we started digging into it. Anytime there's a missing person, UM, foul play suspected, it brings on a whole new atmosphere to the case. If you're working a murder case, you have a body, you have a scene, you have physical evidence to work with, and you have light at the end of the tunnel from the day it occurs on a missing person. UM. In a case like this, it's it's problematic because there

are so many people who UM want to shed light. UM. There are so many people who want to provide information to look like they're cooperating, Yet they they tend to send the investigators off in different directions. UM. So liars pretty much pretty much to be blunt, UM, are you dealing with a lot of those in this case? We

deal with a lot of those in every case. UM. Certainly there have been UM some um information that gets at least to a second third, fourth party, and you lose a little bit of the truth in every phase of that type of system. But yes, there have been some liars in this case. So that actually brings up a good point if you lose a little bit in like every phase I know this case has changed hands three times or two times, it was it was it Johnny Mueller first and then make Freer and then you yes,

So does that make things harder? Well, it would accept that I have a close working relationship with Detective Molar and Detective Freer. Um, so communicating with them as has been pretty instrumental in the case. Um. You know a lot of people think, okay, we get we get a copy of the police reports, and everything is good, we know everything. But um, you lose a lot if you

can't communicate with the lead detective in the case. UM. Police reports, if they paid attention the academy are supposed to be facts, not opinion, not thoughts, not considerations that they have when they go home and sit down at night and can't get it out of their minds. So we want to pull from those lead detectives as frequently as we can, for as much information as we can, just to get their insight and their feelings about things.

Although they're by definition a cold case has set for twelve months with with no movement, no UH, no active leads. And this is different because there are so many people who who are hands on and wanting to move it, but it's as far as actual leads go, it's been cold UH for over a year. So so how do you approach a case like this, what's the first thing

that you did? The first thing we did is we sorted through and it took weeks, but we sorted through the boxes of UH binders and reports and files that we were provided UM, and I assigned one of my

guys just to look at phone records, nothing else. I assigned one person to to do some research into the the one piece of evidence we have, the video from Walmart UM, and then I had another person just kind of forming it back into alongside me, forming it back into an actual case file that's just a chronologically organized report to make it easier to read UM. That took weeks just to get it to their UM, and then then we began sorting through it UM, reading through it,

trying to identify everyone who's involved. We live in a very transient society. The same is true with with the young people involved in this case. They're hard to locate sometimes. So we started trying to make sure that we had all the facts about where they were at, what they were doing, where they worked, and all that kind of stuff, what their associations are outside of this case, UM, to see where we could get Tiffany is uh mom and

uh no doubt loves her little girl. Uh. The little girl was with Grandma Lisa uh and in good care. But when when an adult uh can't be found, hasn't been heard from or seen by their friends, UM, doesn't have a work that they would normally be going to day in and day out, you know, and and all of a sudden they're just kind of gone. Um. If they don't come back to check on their children, if they don't send messages at least to check on their children,

that concerns me as an an investigator about their well being. UM. When they have a bank account and there's no attempt to access the funds by the person who can't be found, then that's assigned to me that that uh, that foul play has occurred. So UM, I think that was noted pretty early in the case. Is that is or a window that you might think that whatever happened or is through a time period that that happened to narrow it down?

Is it that night? The next day. I'm gonna safely say that within uh, within a few hours of the

time that Tiffany left Walmart, everything occurred. I can tell you that there are two people in my unit that are working this case every day and UH and and I'm involved in that as well, UH and I have a lot of other obligations on all the other cases that we're working, but but I have two people who are who are in and out of this case every day trying to work on it, trying to come up with ideas, trying to locate people, trying to to set up UM situations where we can um do some some

justice for the case and and bring some real answers. UH. It's a I'm a parent, UM, and I empathize with Lisa in this case. I want nothing better uh for her than some very real truth to come out. UM. Healaling doesn't start until you begin to get truth. So I want, I wanted to find truth for UM Lisa Daniels and and get her the information that she that she so desperately wants and needs. How often do you

communicate with Lisa? With Lisa, it's about once a week, sometimes twice a week, that we text back and forth a little bit or talk on the phone and UH and she's UH. I made her a promise and that is that by the time we get done, she'll know more than she knew when we picked it up. So Lisa is UM strong. She's a strong willed person. UM. She UH is a great parent in that she um knocks on the door and if you don't answerly enough, she just kind of opens the door and comes on in.

If you try to close the door on her, she puts her foot in it and pushes you out of the way and get your attention. So UM, I can't I can't ask for anything more from her than to uh than to keep pushing for what she she justly deserves. And that's some truth. There are people who could call me today and provide me with the right information. I have no doubt. We have no factual documentation that anyone saw them together after the Walmart incident, but I believe

that someone does exist. Tell me who this guy is, where he's at today. Ashley is Uh was at the time Tiffany's boyfriend and Uh. Ashley is Uh in the Department of corrections as we speak on unassociated charges. Um, he's been interviewed multiple times. He's never uh just shut down and said no, I won't talk to you. Um. He's provided information uh two Detective Moler and uh and he did the interview with Esquire magazine. UM. He's not a person who has just completely um shut himself off

from the investigation. UM. A lot of people have issues with Ashley because, uh, he didn't file the report that she was missing that night. He didn't contact anyone and say, you know that she ran and I don't know where she went. Um. And he even days in he didn't contact anyone. He did make contacts with other people. He made inquiries with other people, but it never went to the police about her, about her you know, not being seen. So uh he he's a person of interest, just as

many other people are in the case. Who um, who have come about it's any anytime you have a boyfriend girlfriend relationship, UM, husband wife relationship, you you obviously look at that person first, uh and see if you draw any conclusions that they would have more involvement. Yeah for them, what I've learned, their relationship wasn't normal, happy, healthy relationship. So I don't know. UM. I mean I think there

was violence in their relationships. So in the background research done with by Detective Mueller and they married a police department there there was some information that came forward about some domestic disputes that had gone on in the past between them. UM, so that that'd be that's been looked at as well. Obviously. Can you tell me about the barrel filled with concrete that was thrown off of Bethany

Bridge in Ackworth by Ashley and some of his associates. Uh, there was a tip that came through, UM that sounds familiar to that, and just there have been other tips that have come through that that she was put here. She was put there, this is how she was dumped. UM, And it happens in these types of cases. But there's no There was a search conducted UM with D and R's assistance and married to police and and UM nothing was recovered at that search. There are ways to do

things and ways not to do things. And I'm never surprised anymore by by what people do in the measures they take to get away with something. But UM, that information was was brought to us through UH, through the married police department, through a tip, and it was researched, it was checked out, and nothing resulted from do you

think there's any physical evidence? One of the reasons the case has gone where it has, uh and as at the stage that it's at today three and a half years later, is because there was no crime scene full of physical evidence in the case. I think there is physical evidence. I don't think it's been recovered yet, and I think that that once we've found that physical evidence, then it's going to answer everything we need to know.

When we're sitting in here as a group, UM, these people who work alongside me on these cases, we share information because the the whole idea behind the cold Case Unit forming was that that it would be wonderful to have people dedicated to looking at these old cases, UM with a different set of eyes. So we utilized that strategy and we bounced things off of each other. We make notes, UM, and there there are times when we're all in here together and uh, one of us has

a thought. We get up, jumped to the white board and go to town right and a bunch of stuff so everybody can see it. And I'm I'm one of those people that if I hear something, I can think of through and remember it for a few minutes. If I hear it and see it, it lasts with me a little bit longer. So so that's how we do some of our formulated group studies of cases in here. So it's her missing flyer, Tiffany Witten, and then just underneath it it says Ashley Coddle, and to left of

that it's his questions for Coddle. The reason that we have the two pictured up there, Tiffany and Ashley, is because that's who was at the walmart, right of course when when this, when this incident occurred and Tiffany ran from security, and um, Ashley Coddle was there. He was with in the store for an hour leading up to this, and then after she ran he stood there for a moment and then he walked away. Um. So in our minds those two are together and he's the last one

with her. The notes on the dry race boards in the cold Case unit mainly focus on Tiffany. Her case takes up a board and a half. It's essentially broken down into three sections, a timeline, a to do list, and questions for Coddle. We see names on the to

do list under a section marked interview slash reinterview. Names like Stephen Weinstein, the friend that supposedly picked up Ashley Coddle on that night, Sheila Fuller, the former roommate of Tiffany, Jason Zuccarini, one of Tiffany's ex boyfriends, Cinnamon another friend. There are questions like who was living in Benedict's house on September besides Caddle, and lots of notes that involved looking into phone records. According to Dawes, the majority of

these people have been talked to at some point. It's just a matter of going through and doing it again. More than likely someone wasn't telling the truth. Hopefully that truth will come sooner rather than later, because Lisa says that she is currently trusting law enforcement and the process. She won't hold back forever. You know a list of people that if you could just write down a list of names that the police would just grill for answers.

Do you know who those people are? Names like friends, circles? Do you know those people? You know? A couple? Do you tell me who they were? Okay, hmm, I just don't want to do anything that would jeopardize their investigations, So I know that, Yeah, privately. Yeah. M hmm, Okay, well, I really hope that they are able to trip somebody up or find what they're looking for. I think it will happen eventually. At you know, my big just worries, Yeah, I do know who a couple of these people are.

My biggest worries that they o d and die before we getting information out of them that that honestly is is. I worry about that every day. I mean I I went on Facebook and I said, look, I'm gonna start naming names. Somebody needs to do the right thing here. I'm gonna I'm just gonna start naming names. And then you know, it's kind of like, uh, law enforcement doesn't really people like you to do that. I'm not gonna

hold back forever. I will not hold back forever, but I feel like in this case, when it comes to naming people, I do feel like I have to give John the opportunity. You know, I know that there are a lot of moving parts involved, you know, different different departments and people involved. So it's not just a matter of him saying, Okay, I'm gonna go get this guy and I'm gonna grill this guy. Because they gotta have

something to hold over them. They've gotta have something that says, you know what, you are facing a lot of time in prison, and yeah, and we can help you, but you got to come clean and just lean on him until they do otherwise. Then then you have to make it happen. You have to be able to make good on the and the on the threat that you're facing a lot of time in prison. So that takes time. That takes time to build, you know, to have all those moving parts working in unison and say, okay, we've

got this guy dead to rights. There is no way that we're gonna lose this case in court if we if we go to court, you know, if he doesn't come clean and we don't help him with a plea deal or whatever, then he is facing twenty years or he's facing fifteen years. He and he'll be in prison for fifteen years. And but they've got to be able to make that stick. And I think these these guys and girls in Cobb County that are running in this crowd, they know they know we'll be out in three months.

I'll be out in a year. I can do that standing on my head, three hots and a car for a year I'm good with that. I don't have to work. I'll have to you know, the only thing they're missing is their drugs. Right, We've gained a lot more knowledge and insight into just why this case is now so convoluted. There's some very suspicious aspects to this case, particularly the whereabouts of Tiffany's cell phone that's a big one. And

what about that suspicious activity on her Facebook account? Are these factors just throwing investigators off the trail or are they tied into the final answer to this mystery. In my opinion, Ashley Caudal knows more about these two questions than probably anyone else. I don't think it's any secret that actually Caudal remains the primary person of interest in this case, but there's probably other people that know something about this case and could point investigators in the right direction.

As far as cold cases are concerned, I think that law enforcement is being as proactive as they possibly can be. I mean, it's not every day that you've got the district attorney's office directly involved in investigating a cold case. Typically district attorneys take over cases when the police make an arrest and finish an investigation. But that doesn't change the fact that, in terms of the lead investigator, this case has changed hands a number of times. Nevertheless, I

think it's in the right place now. I think that the Cobb County Cold Case Unit is in the best position to solve this case. There's one crucial takeaway from all of this. It's something I've known for a while, but learning about the Tiffany Witten case simply underscores this one simple fact. If someone is missing, report them right away, don't wait. That initial forty eight hour time period is

absolutely critical. Investigators can do so much if they just know that someone is thing and they know that they need to be looking after forty hours is passed. It makes it so much harder for investigators to piece together what someone may be doing with their life. And finally, please, if anybody knows anything about the disappearance or what may have happened to Tiffany Witten, please contact John Dalls at the Cobb County District Attorney's Office or even your local

law enforcement agency. Somebody somewhere knows something. All it takes is that one call. So if you know anything, please contact John DAWs at the Cobb County District attorney's office or contact local law enforcement. Tiffany deserves to be found and her family deserves closure. Sworn is produced by Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta. Story and production by Payne Lindsay, Mason Lindsay and Meredith Steadman and myself Philip Holloway executive producers

Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. And if you have it yet, please check out our sister podcast, Up and Vanished that follows the investigation into the disappearance of Georgia High School teacher and beauty queen Tara Grinstead. Up and Vantaged is available now on Apple Podcasts. Sworn is mixed and mastered by Resonate Recordings. If you're in the market for podcast production, go to Resonate Recordings dot com to get your first

episode produced for free. If you haven't already, please head over to iTunes now to subscribe, rate, and review Sworn and make sure you check us out online at Sworn podcast dot com and follow us on social media at Sworn podcast on Twitter and Instagram. And you can follow me your host, Philip Holloway at phil Holloway e s Q on Twitter. Thanks for listening. This is Philip Halloway. And I'll see you next time. On sworn, I see

I see Blod in the water, Rundy in rusty. I see I see blood in the water, charming, charming, See good in the water,