The Death of Cooper Harris : Part 2

issues at trial. The jury has spoken. This is about what the case looks like from the inside looking out. The case was extensively litigated by very good lawyers on both sides. A jury reached a verdict, and it's not our place to relitigate those issues. But we do want to bring you inside the case for an insider's look at the case of the State of Georgia versus Justin Ross Harris. Place your left hand on the bay of Bible and raise your right hand and repeat after me,

I you solemnly swear the jury trying it. Defendant not scared of continuing this weekend that ferguson and around the country. It makes no sense. If it doesn't fit, you must equit judge you are the last line of reason in this case. Every one of us took at all the spots and we're sworn to uphold the Constitution. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway.

The first thing in a jury foleis jury selection. We've accomplished that each of you has been selected, chosen, and sworn to serve as a juror in this particular case. M last time on sworn we enter is to you to the Ross Harris hot car death case. A complicated, an emotional case overrun with media attention to recap. The case covers the death of twenty two month old Cooper Harris, who died of hyperthermia in the back of a sweltering hot car in Cobb County, Georgia, on June eighth. Later,

justin Ross Harris, Cooper's father, was charged with murder. Media outlets sprung on the case, broadcasting salacious details of what was alleged to be Mr Harris's double life, namely his sexting with about a half a dozen women, none of whom were his wife. We already heard from the prosecution, so today we're going to be hearing from Maddox Killboard, Justin Ross Harris's defense attorney. But first let's take you inside the trial the State of Georgia versus Justin Ross Harris.

M On October sixteen, the opening statements began for the State of Georgia versus Justin Ross Harris at the Glenn County Courthouse in Brentswick, Georgia. The trial would last roughly five weeks. Pleas gonna see it. The first thing I want to tell you is that the state is right about one very important that and that is Ross Harris's response. First, Charles death. This is Harris's defense attorney, Maddox Kilgore. It's

his fault forty, no doubt about. From the moment he drove down the road, look back over his shoulder and caught a glimpse of Cooper in the back, he knew what you had done, he knew you'd forgotten him, and he whipped his car over into a parking lot and pulled him out, desperately looking into a little boy. And you're gonna hear that he tried to do CPR. Which is gonna hear is that he was too overwhelmed and he couldn't concentrate, but he never blamed anybody but himself

kind of words. Did he use it? The thing? My god, what have I done? I killed my boy? I'm so sorry Cooper, I'm so sorry y And what he did wasn't willful. Kilgore goes on to prep the jury for what they will experience during this trial. He addresses the issues that the state will present as evidence against Harris, especially his sexual exploits. You're going to hear that Ross used social media apps to exchange very gross and graphic, filthy sexual talk with people. You're gonna hear about all

kinds of nasty internet chats. You're not gonna hear ever molested child. You're not gonna hear he ever had sex with anybody under age. He's certainly not going to hear the ever forced anybody need to do anything that they want to do. You're going to hear about infidelity. You canna hear about adultery, and that is Ross was unfaithful to his wife, and you're going to hear about that sexual liaison sometimes in cars. You're going to hear about

very um embarrassing graphic sexual matters and vulgar language. And he's earned every bit of that shame. But Ross's sex life, no matter how perverse and nasty and wrong, it doesn't have a thing in the world to do with the fact that he forgot that little boy. Ross looks stunned during this trial, pale, uncomfortable, nervously swallowing every few minutes, very completely under got nothing to do with each other.

I've known you to be a great defense attorney for many years, and so is that even even including the time when you kick my mask and trial when you were the prosecutor. You you needed to lose that case, and so I'm okay with that. But h I'm happy to I'm happy to do this and be part of this podcast. This is Maddox Kilgore, Justin Ross Harris's lead defense counsel, and as you can tell, he along with Mr Boring, the lead prosecutor, he's a longtime colleague of mine.

He agreed to do an interview for the podcast. I asked him how he got involved in this case in the first place. The morning after Cooper's death, my wife and I were getting ready for work and the story came on the news on the television and we both literally froze. The story was so gripping, you know, a

child found in a car left by the father. All day, I mean both of us literally just froze and uh, I had no idea that hours later about a dozen family members from Tuscaloosa, Alabama would be in my office to talk about me representing Ross. I had been recommended by several other lawyers who were associated with the church that Ross and Leanna went to. Everybody involved was as devastated as you can imagine. Well, when the family came

into my office, they were like shells. They were physically there, but they were so distraught and so devastated by Cooper's death that it was like talking to zombies. They were that devastated. I went out to the jail for a first appearance hearing and met Ross several hours later that evening. He was really the same way. His body was there, but he he wasn't. It was just just a shell of human. He was so distraught and so shocked um at what he had done. I mean, he left his

child in the car. I would like to point out that the defense team did a great public service that most people really aren't aware of. Sure, they got paid from public funds to do their sworn duty, which was to be zealous advocates for the client. But these are also business owners who took a financial hit because essentially they had to close down their office during this trial. They could not take on any new cases. If lawyers

can't take on new cases, their practices suffer severely. But these guys have never once complained because they know that the justice system would collapse if there isn't a truly vigorous adversarial process. We were, quite frankly bufuddled. We didn't understand why he had been arrested and charged with murder.

The more we looked into it and investigated it over the next couple of weeks, and the more we found out about it, and the more we talked to Ross and family members and co workers, we became even more befuddled why he had why he had been charged. I believe that the hardest thing about Maddox's job as Justin Ross Harris's defense counsel was to fight through the strong public opinion, the public outrage that so many people felt towards his client. A great many people publicly perceived him

as a complete monster. Now, Maddox truly believes in harrass his innocence. There's a difference between Maddox as a human being and Maddox as a lawyer, and as a human being, when you feel this way, it's a really hard thing to deal with. He believed strongly in Harass his actual innocence, but as his lawyer, he had to be very careful with what he presented to the public. How did he deal with that emotionally as a lawyer, How did he deal with that emotionally as a human being, as a father,

as a spouse. How did he deal with this is something he had to take home with him every single day. There was never any question that Ross was responsible for his child's death. I mean from the very beginning he understood that he was responsible. And of course when I saw him at the jail that very first meeting, in every subsequent meeting for the next two plus years, he carried with him that hurt, that burden of that pain of not just the loss of his little boy, but

the realization that it was by his own hand. What we do is defend people who were charged with crimes. And it's rare that someone who has charged with crime and that crime is reported. Uh, It's rare that they would be Um a favored personality in social media. So we're certainly accustomed to our clients being looked at as the bad guys and being assumed that they're guilty. But this case was different. I mean, Ross was absolutely just slaughtered in social media, in print media, talking heads, on

the television. We realized that he was not guilty of what he was charged with, and so regardless of what was being how he was being portrayed aid in media and social media, it created an enormous amount of anxiety on our part to try to make sure that he was not convicted. Sleepless nights, that's that's that's absolutely part of the job, and in this case, Um, it was more than two years of sleepless nights and anxiety and stress over getting ready to defend Ross. The media was

a huge part of this case. There was such an inundation of media, especially in Cobb County, that it was hard not to have an opinion of some sort on Justin Ross Harris, and even harder not to have a negative one. When someone's arrested, there's an enormous amount of information that gets pumped into the public arena, and that could be on the news television, news, radio, print media, but more so than ever, social media, Facebook, Twitter, whatever.

And when someone's arrested for a serious case, primarily I'm talking about cases involving children, they're immediately deemed a monster, and so you're you're really starting with two strikes against you. There is an absolute assumption of guilt in in the in the public eye, no doubt about it. This wasn't entirely the case at first. At first, there was a tremendous amount of support for Ross Harris. There were go fund me accounts, public pleased to have the charges dismissed.

And then suddenly all of that took a turn and a turn for the worst for Mr Harris. The media started reporting on information that was located in search warrants or search warrant applications that have been filed by the Cobb County Police Department. We discovered at the probable cause hearing, and subsequently when we received recordings of Ross's interview and other pieces of evidence, we discovered that there was a lot of very um false information that was that was

in those search warrant applications. And once the media reported that information, then it certainly uh it had its desired effect, which was to make Uh make Ross look like a killer, make it look like he had planned Uh to kill his child. That's when the public perception really turned against him. And then, of course that was exacerbated after the probable cause hearing, where there was a lot of very damning

sounding testimony that came out during that hearing. Of course, over the next two years we discovered that a lot of the testimony was absolutely misleading and faults. But at that point, the damage had been done. The public had already heard exactly what law enforcement wanted them to hear and um and so we were swimming upstream from there. I sat in the courtroom in Cobb County for the better part of two weeks while we watched the lawyers and the court do their damned best to try to

find an impartial jury in Cobb County. I think in the end, it was the right thing to do for the case to be moved outside of the Atlanta media market, because while people have heard about this case, the feelings were not so strong and so strongly held as the feelings that we heard expressed by the potential jurors when they were questioned in Cobb County. Before the case was moved.

Juries are really hard creatures to understand. You do your best to try to weed out people that may lean one way or may lean another way, may be supportive of the other side's case, but it's kind of like reading tea leaves. You really can't quite know until it's all over and done with what people are really thinking. We like to hope that most of the time it all works out right in the end, but we also

know that sometimes it doesn't. You sort of have to pay attention to not getting caught up in the spin and looking at what is actually presented at trial. But I think for the jury in this case, emotion did really lead the way because at the end of the day, a lot of people just couldn't imagine that somebody could

forget their kid. And in either case, and in any case, I think a lot of people thought, even if you were distracted, no matter what you were doing, you still have to pay the price for leaving your kid in the car. This is Veronica Waters, the reporter from w s B Radio who we heard from in the last episode. Well, you don't reporters don't like anything that's saying. Keep out media. The media lawyers were quick to be hired for that and argue in court for why the open court process

was a valuable thing. An invaluable thing really for people to know what was happening, and we shouldn't be shut out of that. I do understand that the defense was like, we don't care if they come for the trial once we decide to, you know, pick a jury and all that kind of stuff, but right now we are afraid that we're going to taint the jury pool because there is so much coverage on this. According to Veronica, there's

two sides to that coin. We had people who were saying, I get it, I've been distracted, I've forgotten stuff, And in quiet moments, there are some people who will actually tell you I have forgotten my kid in the car. Didn't happen for eight hours on a summer day, but I've walked away from the car for X number of seconds or minutes and forgotten that I had a kid in the car. Then you have other people like the guy that we first saw the first time that they

tried to pick a jury in Cobb County. And this guy said, I don't even like subway sandwiches, but I wouldn't forget my lunch on the seat, you know, let alone my kid. So a lot of people were super angry. They were shocked, and they were furious, and they thought even if he was distracted, he needed to pay for that. Yes, you have emotions about this case, and of course we think it's horrible and you feel as if you sort

of have an opinion about it. But if you had to listen to the facts before you made a decision, could you do that? And I think people are put

in that position. You don't want to say, like, no, there's no way that I could ever And although we did have some people say no, there's no way that I could ever ignore what I feel about this right now, but a lot of people said, well, yeah, I guess I could, because we want to do what we feel is the right thing, and we don't want to see seem I think, super closed minded, so we're gonna say, yeah, I think we could. I think I could maybe sort of hear everything out before I levy a decision um.

And so we had a lot of people in the jury pool who were like that, and the defense carefully took notes for those three weeks and then said this is how many we have who have been okayed to go through for potential striking later and look how many of them said, I've got an opinion on this case. You can't force anybody to not be biased basically about the case. And they met the standard of whatever that statute is, that law, and the judge said, okay, we're

moving the trial. So the trial has moved due to what seemed like the promise of a heavily biased theory. Not everyone increased with that motion. Vinnie Politan, the former prosecutor and eleven Alive anchor who we spoke to last episode, shared his thoughts with us. During my entire career at Court TV hl N now at eleven Alive, I have

covered dozens and dozens of high profile cases. At court TV, we didn't we didn't cover cases that weren't high profile because once Court TV showed up, it became high profile. This one was no different. This one was, yes, a national story, everybody was talking about it, but this case was not higher profile than Casey Anthony O. J. Simpson,

Michael Jackson. So the reports are out there and they're going to be out there, but our system is set up that, hey, you can overcome pre trial publicity and give defendants fair trials, and in history has shown us this Casey Anthony was found not guilty of murder, Michael Jackson was not guilty of sexually assaulting that child. O. J. Simpson was found not guilty of murder. So clearly, in three cases that are incredibly high profile criminal defendants got

fair trials. So it gets done. Our system works. In this case, there was an incredible concentration of coverage of this case, especially in Cobb County where it happened. So during the jury selection process, it seemed like everybody had been exposed and a lot of people had made preconceived notions of guilt or innocence and a view of what

it meant in terms of what Ross Harris did. And as a result, you listen to these jurors during the selection, the initial selection process, and you're like, I don't know if we'll be able to get a jury. But the judge was able to qualify because the test is can you or can you not take whatever you know about this case ahead of time, put it aside and base your verdict just on what you hear in the courtroom. And that's what juries do. Ask O. J. Simpson as

Casey Anthony. So people throw that aside. The role of the media and the impact that the media can have on on jury selection, to me is a non issue. It's something that just gets completely thrown out of whack by defense attorneys. And the reason being is ultimately everyone gets a fair trial, whether you pick the jury from the county where it happened, or if you move it

to a different part of the state. Eventually you will find twelve people who can put anything that they heard about the case or may have heard about the case aside and and give a true verdict based upon the evidence inside the courtroom as instructed by the judge. Now back to the trial. During the trial, the prosecution played for the jury a dash camp video from one of the first officers who arrived on the scene. Gross Harris

can be heard in the background screaming. Upon their arrival, an officer asked Mr Harris for his I D. And he lashed out towards the officer with some obscene language. Not too long after the police arrived, Harris was placed in handcuffs and put in the back of a squad card.

The dash camp continued rolling. Prosecution paused the video to ask Officer Jacqueline Piper while she was on the stand in the courtroom, are you Officer Piper um Stead there that you said I turned all the windows down, It's okay, all the way up? What have you said right before that? Was it not captured on the audio since he was in the back that it was hot in the vehicle. Ross Harris had asked for the windows to be rolled down because it was too hot in the cop car.

In this case, the advantage prosecutors had was that Ross Harris didn't testify. This jury, did not hear, did not have the defendant get up on the witness stand, look the jury in the eyes and say, listen, I didn't

do this. I loved my son. I don't know why the defense didn't put him on the witness stand, and maybe because of that double life he had, But that double life was already in front of this jury and it was basically there without any sort of explanation, and there was no heart felt apology from Ross Harris to his son for letting him down. There was no Ross Harris talking to this jury and telling them that it

was an accident. And to me, the new evidence that I would have feared most as a prosecutor would have been a defendant, a father who got up on that witness stand and was genuine. Ross Harris had been sexting with multiple women, including an underage girl on June eight, all this as Cooper was dying of hyperthermia in the back of a boiling hot car. One woman who was a part of Ross Harris's other life, named Caitlin Floyd,

was called to testify during the trial. Did he ever inform you that during these times, uh, that he may have been messaging you some mornings that there was a child in the backseat and you asked him how long they did marry? And how does he respond? And how do you respond? Asked him happy? How does he respond arry minus sex? What does he say about it? That is too much of a sexual frank? Does he ask you to perform some type of sex act? And does he want to do that in public? Yes? Okay? What

was your response? I said, I don't want to get rested? And did you send him a photograph after that? What was his response? UMM? Asked him if you wanted to play with him? And how did he respond? Because it says yes I do and did you respond, I did What'd you say? Well, good things come to those who

won't and how did he respond? Ultimately, at trial, some of the most damning and compelling evidence presented by the prosecution were the graphic details of Ross Harris's extramarital sex life and the notion that his baby boy, Cooper Harris, was in the way of his pursuit of other women, and he was in the way of Ross Harris is being able to lead this different life in the spirit got County, State of Georgia's State of Georgia, Earth and

dustin law scares and base number nine three Lange here four. Any time of verdicts coming down, you are supertense, So you know, everybody wants to be first with it. Everybody's fascinated, fascinated, you want to know, you know what the what? What are the jury see And a lot of times that's why we like to watch their faces and see how

they look at Ross Harris. Do they seem compassionate? And then when they're walking in the courtroom, you're trying to look at them and see are they looking at the defendant or are they not making eye contact with him? And a lot of times if they are not looking at them, then you if they have sort of this stony looking face and they won't make eye contact with

the defendant, you can kind of tell. So when we were waiting, you know, every you know, the the era is electric find as follows cow, one mouse or still be more container. I remember that when malice murder was that was the very first count, and when they said guilty on that, I was like, he's going down. If they convicted him on malice murder, they're convicting him on everything.

Riss Harris was found guilty of all eight charges, including malice murder, even after tremendous efforts made by the defense. Even though Maddox killed Gore and the defense team believed in his innocence and did the very best that they possibly could to defend him, the jury could not be

convinced otherwise. Their decision may have had to do with the idea that Ross did in fact want to be freed from his predictable and domestic lifestyle, which the States supported with the evidence of his own line sexual exploits and affairs. Their decision may have had to do with the extensive media coverage, Even though the took extraordinary measures to prevent the media's influence. It may have had to do with what seemed like Ross's abnormal reactions as a

grieving father. Regardless, Ross Harris was found guilty. Very disappointing, very surprising, very disappointing. We were surprised. We were very very surprised when we got the verdict that we were not expecting. We were surprised, but we had already had lots of conversations with with Ross as we do, as you do any client, you know what could happen and what it means. In January, Maddox Kilgore filed a motion for new trial. After that, new appellate council was appointed

to represent Mr Harris through his appeals. I talked with his appellate lawyer just the other day in the courthouse, and he told me that because of the length of this case, the length of the trial, it may very well be early before there's even a transcript that can be prepared that he can look at to review for

potential error so that there could be an appeal. Until then, Ross Harris remains behind bars in Valdosta State Prison, sentenced to life without parole for the murder of his twenty two month old son Cooper Harris may he rest in peace. Sworn is produced by Tenderfoot TV Atlant Story production and

sound design by Payne Lindsay. Executive produce us Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay, and if you have it yet, please check out our sister podcast, Up and Vantage, that follows the investigation into the disappearance of Georgia High school teacher and beauty queen Tera Brinstead. Up and Vantage is available now on ethel Podcasts. Sworn is mixed and mastered by Resonate Recordings. If you're in the market for podcast production, go to Resonate Recordings dot com to get your first

episode produced for free. If you haven't already, please head over to iTunes now to subscribe, rate, and review Sworn and make sure you check us out online at Sworn podcast dot com and follow us on social media at Sworn podcast on Twitter and Instagram, and you can follow me your host, Philip Holloway at phil holloway e s Q on Twitter. Eat Your Last Eat Seed I Seed, Blood in the Fro jam Jamney, Blood in the Water