Closing Statements : The Widemans

this is sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. On this episode of Closing Statements, Phil talks to one of Debora Wideman's family members who reached out to him after the first three episodes were released. But first we'll hear Jason Walker's perspective to recap, Jason Walker was the alleged father of Melissa's baby, someone who seemed to have a potential motive at the time. He agreed to talk to us about his experience, but he didn't want his voice to

be used. I'll be reading the questions that we asked Jason and Phil with voices responses. What was your life like in Turner County in two thousand two, where did you live. What was your job? I lived in the northern part of the county, working on a decent sized farm in South Crisp County. I enjoyed the work and who I worked for, no complaints. What was your relationship with Melissa Like? Someone mentioned to us that you may have been married at the time you were seeing Melissa.

Is that right? Or were you exclusively with Melissa at the time. I was not married at the time of the incident. It's no secret that our relationships started when I was married. We continued after I divorced. I'll not dispute that there were ups and downs. It's no secret you probably know that. What was your relationship with t J and Deborah Like? Our parents treated me very well, even at times when maybe they shouldn't have. They welcomed me in their home and never made me feel like

they didn't want me there. We even went on an out of town trip or two. What was your alibi that night? We heard from a credible source that your car hood was cold that morning and that you couldn't have left your house in that car. Could you tell us the same alibi you told the police. If my old age memory serves me right, We had gone to Cordial Walmart for some things, and then stopped to see a couple of guys at the GSP post when it

was still on Midway Road. Then when I went home, I was home until I was notified of the fire. When I was notified, I rode with someone to the house. Did you feel like you're the only person of interest in that case or that there was too much focus on you? How did the investigation impact your personal life with internal County? What about your professional life? I don't think I was the only suspect, of course, in the situation. I was the first one that came to their minds.

The second part of that question I can't really answer because I don't know how much anyone else was question third part, you know things like this, Well, I've easily make people wonder. I've maintained my innocence the whole time and still do very very few ever treated me different. What do you think could have been done differently in the investigation process in order to find the person or people that did this and, as you said, bring relief

to those of you who were wrongly accused. I can't really answer this because I only know what they did when they questioned me. I allowed a search of my home and my car without them having a warrant. I had no reason to interfere or make it hard on them. I know Slash News several of the guys that were on the case at the time. They were doing their job, and we remain good friends today. Again, though, I can only answer about how I was questioned, not anyone else.

Who else do you think was wrongly accused along with you? I can only speak for me. I know I was wrongly accused, and I really don't know who was questioned or in what manner. Do you think there are still people in Turner County that think you had something to do with the incident until it's solved. I'm sure there are, but I don't think I'm the only one people suspect. But can't speak for anyone else either. I guess the media could only report on what they were told by

law enforcement. I don't think they tried to push an opinion, only what they were given. How do you think the media handled the case? I guess the media could only report on what they were told by law enforcement. I don't think they tried to push an opinion, only told what they were given. Finally, Jason says, I hope that helps you. I hope what you're doing finds the missing piece or that one person that knows what happened. We both know that someone knows what happened, and it's long

overdue that the truth be told. Thanks for reaching out to me, and I hope what I've told you helped. Good luck with getting others to reply back to you. David Er, one of Deborah's younger brothers, reached out to Phil after the first three episodes aired. He wanted to talk to us. He said he had something to share, so Phil called him back. David, can you please tell us what your name is and how you're connected to this case. I am David Wheeler. I am the younger

brother of Deborah Wideman. Devor and Tom and Joe and Melissa were part of my family. Where do you live? I live in Sycamore, Georgia, about a mile or two from the Kiff County line and about five miles from from Ashman, Georgian, about twelve miles from Rebecca, where they lived. I wanted to take a few minutes to talk about your sister and her family, the people that lost their lives, What can you tell us about them? They were very friendly,

very social. Everybody in the community knew them. Everybody in the county. Between Devera and Tom and Joe, they were liked by every one. I don't know anybody that didn't like them. Tomma Joe was a very friend, happy going, easy going person. Devil was also they loved people. They loved to be around people, and they love to have a good time. What about your niece, Can you tell us something about her? I think she was also one that was very friendlish, She enjoyed her friends. She was

expecting with her first child. She was about a month or six weeks away from from the living her child. She was very friendly, had lots of friends in the community. Even don't know if anyone that disliked her. She was very happy, very joyful. Do we know who the father of her unborn child was? It was suspected that it was a Walker, Jason Walker. To my knowledge that too

the dad was. Is that what she believed as well? Yes, yes, I know this may be difficult, but if you can, can you kind of walk us through how you found out about the fire and ultimately the murders. It was a Thursday afternoon. That Thursday afternoon, I actually had a phone call from my sister Debor. I was outside and one of the my daughter I believe, brought me the house phone. She had called to ask if we would

be coming to Easter. I believe Easter was the not that weekend, but the following weekend, and they wanted to have a get together at at their house, and they were staying at Toma Joe's mother's home. And so around six o'clock she get called and we talked and had a great conversation, talked about twenty minutes, and we told her Or I told her that we would become for Easter.

And then about tween two and three o'clock that morning, Friday morning, I got a phone call from elderly friend that lived in Rebecca, and she called the house and said that Devon Toma Joe's the house was on fire. It was Tom Joe's mother's house. Said the house was on fire, but they could not find Devor and Toma joinning where nobody could reach them. They tried calling and and nobody could reach them or nobody knew where they was,

and she hung up. I called my sister and told her that the house was on fire and that nobody could get ahold of Damner coming Joe. And the first thing to come in my mind was that maybe Melissa had went into labor, maybe they had to take her to the hospital, And so I told her she would call the hospital and call our brother who lived in Irbville at the time. Then I was going to call

my father in law. We had three small children that were nine, eleven, and fifteen at that time, and so we called him and asked him if he could come over to the house because we was going to drive to Rebecca and see if we could find out what was going on, or see if we could find Devin, Tom and Joe. My sister called back and said that she had called the closest hospitals, the two or three hospitals around, and they did not have a Melissa there, did not have her. They're delivering or no when was

there by that name. So we drove to the house. Their houses up on isolated drive on a country highway. But when we got there there was a deputy sheriff at the end of the driveway. What time did you get to the side of the fire, I would say around four thirty. It's far enough off the roads. I couldn't tell. Knew there were a lot of fire trucks up there and appear to boost a lot of the police cars. But the devity's sheriff would not allow us to go up into the drive. He would not allow

us to go up to the house. I asked him, I told him who I was, told him it was my sister's house and we were trying to find out where they were. But he would not allow us to go up into the drive. So when we left there, we went to Charles Henry's house, that was Toma Joe's brother, and we went to Charles Henry's house. He was there. We he met us at the door, and we went in and I was talking to him and just asking him to even know anything, And at that time he

told us he didn't know anything. He didn't know where they were, he didn't know anything about He did tell us that he had been to the house. So wait a minute, they let him in the house or to the scene, but they wouldn't let you apparently, So he told us that he had been there and then he had left, but they would not allow us to go up into the house. Did he say if he went there with anyone else? He did not. He didn't say if he was by himself or him one took him,

or if anybody went with him. He didn't. He did not imply that anyone had went with him at that time. He did tell us that his son was there at the house where we were now at his house, he was in the bedroom of sleep, but he didn't tell us whether he didn't say he was at the house with him. What time of day was it that you were at Charles's house? We were probably back at charles is between four thirty and five. How long did you stay there? We stayed there till after lunch the following day,

all right, at lunch, that was a Friday. We stayed there toil long was lunch. We were there about twenty minutes maybe, and my brother Larry Weather, he and his wife they showed up at Charles's Charles Henrys, and then maybe another thirty minutes, and my sister showed up there. And by that time it's probably around five thirty quarter to six in the morning. And by that time there were people in the community who had heard about the house fire that were beginning to show up at the house.

So by six o'clock the house was pretty well full of people in the community. You mentioned that Charles Son was sleeping. Did you ever see him come out? I did not see him until probably ten o'clock the next morning. Had you been there NonStop that whole time? I had been in the house from around four thirty and five. We've been there from four thirty until tween eleven and twelve. We left and came back to our house between eleven and twelve p m. Am. Well eleven made him Friday morning.

We were there from five am, probably four thirty am till eleven or twelve a m. And the only person you were talking with was Charles correct. He was only one that came out and talked to me and my brother. And then probably around eight o'clock the corner Edgar Perry came over to the house and told us that the bodies were in the house and that there was foul play. He did not tell us what had happened, but he said there was foul play and this was a criminal

investigation at this time. What was your reaction and what was everyone else's reaction? Well, everyone was shocked and surprised, you know, you couldn't believe that something like this had happened to them, just going through your mind, how could this have happened? Who could have done this? There was nobody that disliked them. The house is far enough off

the road. Within a day or two, there was all kinds of theories and all kind of Everybody had their different opinions and ideas about who did it or what happened. So who was present when the coroner came to deliver that news to you, Charles Henry, myself and my wife, and Charles Henry's I don't believe the son was there at that time where out when he talked to us, But there was my sister and my brother and his wife, and then there was a large number of people from

the community. There was probably twenty or thirty people from the community were there also, and he he just kind of took us to the side in the room. But there were some other people standing around. I couldn't call their names. Where there were some other people standing around when he he told us that there was foul play. Was there anything that you felt was unusual about the time that you spent at Charles's house that morning? I don't know it was just kind of quiet. I don't

really know. I'd have to think on that question for a moment. Well, let me ask you another question. Did you ever wonder why Charles was allowed to go to the side of the fire but you weren't. Well, I did question, Dad. I didn't want to know why we couldn't go up there since it was our our sister, and you know, I'm wondering why they wouldn't allow us

to go up there and find out. I know it was his, his property or his family's property, but I did question, you know, one couldn't we go up there, or at least way up there until they found out something. Why was your sister and her family staying at that house at that time? They often did that. Toma Joe's mother and Miss Joe. She lived in Frontadina and I think I don't know, but I'm pretty sure she had

some valuable items in the house. I know she probably had her husband or Toma Joe's daddy, Mr. Widman, I believe at one time. I know one time he had a lot of guns, a lot of collectible guns, and she wanted them to stay there for to secure her home. She had some valuable items there and to help up keep the home and to show that, you know, somebody was in and out of the house. So they quite

frequently would go up there and stay. They might stay up there the weekend, or stay up there three or four days out a week, or sometimes two or three weeks out of time, and then go back to their house in Rebecca, a couple of miles away. But they stayed because for security reasons for her home. So Miss Joe, was she a full time resident at Fernandina Beach or did she split her time and how did that work? She spent the majority of her time in front of

Dama Beach. I believe for reasons how well she stayed down there because of the sea air or whatever, or she had asthma or I don't you know. I don't know exactly, but it was some health reasons was one of the reasons she stayed down in front of Dena. Do you know where she was the night of the fire. I had thought that she was at her home in front of Dena. Now later it come out that she may have been in the hospital, But as she was, I thought it would have been down there from Dana somewhere.

Then I did see a news report that said it actually quoted Charles Wideman as saying that she was in the hospital the night of the fire. That's possible. I haven't heard anything to verify that, but that's possible. I know she was very sickly. I know she she passed away within the week or ten days of Tom and Joe and Devorah Melissa's death. She passed away, So she died within a week or ten days of your sister and her family's murder. That's correct, And she believed that

they did not tell her because of her help. They didn't tell her until after the funeral latter was all over. Wait, they didn't tell miss Joe that her family had been murdered. I think that's correct. I think that's what I had heard, that they did not tell her until it was after the funeral. If she was told then, but I believe it was after the funeral when she was told. Now I've come to learn that later there was some litigation between the estate of your sister and the estate of

miss Joe. Is that correct. I'm not as familiar with that. My brother's more familiar with that part of it. I would hesitate to answer on that because I'm I don't know enough to give a correct answer. Okay, can you tell us about Ms Joe's financial circumstances. Was she well offered? Was she a person of modest means? I don't know her exact figure, but she would I wouldn't probably consider well if she was a landowner, and she probably had

stalking things. But I know she had two or three farms in the county, in the house in front of Dana or some property in front of DNA, so I would you know, I would consider that more than honest. I don't know an exact figure, but I would think it's more than modest. When was the last time your brother in law saw his mother. I believe him and Charles Henry had went down and visited her within a month before the murders. I don't know an exact date, but him and Charles Henry had been down there to

see her. You know, I can't, like I said, I can't say an exact date, but within weeks or a month or less from the murders happening. I think he told me earlier today when we talked, that some people went to visit her. It just within a day or two of the murders. Who was that. I believe Charles Henry's wife and his daughter in law they were there the day of the murder, and maybe he had went the day before. I don't know when they left to go down there, but they were not at the house.

And when you know, we did ask where it was Diane, his wife, and he said they were down in Fernandina on the night of the murders. Do you know if anyone was visiting Ms. Joe? To my knowledge, Diane and his son's wife were visiting her or had left to go down there. I don't know when they left, but he said they were going to Fernandina, So I don't know when they left to go, but they were going

to Frontandana to see Ms. Joe. So on the night of the murders, Charles Widenman and his son were in Rebecca, but the rest of the family was in Fernandina. Is that correct? Correct? That's what I was told. That's what Charles Henry had said, that they were gone down there. He didn't say when they left, but the night in the murders, he and his son were the only ones in town or at home. How about your sister and her family had anyone else gone to visit Ms Joe.

I couldn't say. I know Tom and Joe and Deva would frequently go down and visit with her and check on her. They would check on her when she would come home. But now I can't say for certain who else went down there to see her, or how often? Can you tell me the story that we talked about earlier today about somebody going and seeing her just before the murders and coming back with some jewelry. I was told I thought that Tom and Joe had and when Charles went down there, that she had given Tom and

Joe's some jewelry or something. I don't know how much or one kind would she had given him some and had brought it back home. Do you want to talk about the relationship now between your side of the family and the Wideman's. Is that something you're comfortable talking about? Not really? You know, I see them and I speak with them, and they speak when me. We was at a I was at a meeting just recently, and and

they were president at the meeting. You know, we we speak to one another and we've occasionally run into one another in town. Does anybody ever talk to you about the murders. People come up from time to time and they'll ask me or they'll talk to me and they'll give me their opinion, they'll give me their suspicions. I have very seldom bring it up from very seldom talk about it. Our our daughter initiated the conversation. But it

doesn't offend me or bother me. When someone comes up and they want to talk or they want to ask her, you know, they want to express their concern. Most time, when the sheriff comes up and publicizes their murders again or speaks on the in the newspaper, or speaks on the local television station in al Any, you know, to generate some conversations and people come up and they'll talk with their ask her that you know, they're sorry about

what happened and all it did affect my family. I don't bring it up and talk about it much because I had a nine year old son and eleven year old daughter and a fifteen year old daughter, and we didn't talk about it a whole lot because of my nine year old and eleven year old. For over a year. We had just built a house and we had just

moved in it. We've been here about a year and for about a year a year and a half, my two youngest children slept on the floor by the bed between in the wall and they slept there for a year and a half as they were afraid, and even now talking to you and bring it up, it kind of my wife gets a little nervous, a little scared when it's brought back up. I didn't bring it up and didn't talk about it and much around them. Because of that, my son probably took four or five years

before he would go outside by himself. If we was inside, he had to be inside. If we were outside, he had to be outside. Now they were scared, as as young as they were, they were scared something might happen to us or you know, they thought, could this happen to one of us because somebody come to our house and due to us what happened to my sister. So when they were president around, we tried not to talk about it very much, as it took a while for them to be able to go oude on their own.

If the door opening my son heard it, he would run outside to see where we was going to where I was going. It would really bother him. If I went to town and my wife Vicky, she stayed at home. He would be a nervous wreck until we would all be together. He wanted everybody together. He didn't like us to be separated, so it took its toll on our family. That's something like this could happen in a small community like this. Were you ever interviewed by law enforcement? Yes?

And no. The g b I the next day. This happened probably Friday afternoon, after lunch, two or three or four o'clock in the afternoon, if you could call it that. The g b I. He did come by. He asked me to step outside. I stepped out side. We went and set in his car. He maybe talked to me for ten minutes. You know, at the time, you don't think about what he's doing, but I guess he was asking some questions to see make sure that I had an alibi navy. He asked me where was I had

or what was I doing? And I told him that I had talked to Delver at six o'clock that afternoon, and then I told him about the phone call in the middle of the night, and that my wife and I we went to Rebecca and then we was at Charles Henry's house, and that was all the questions he asked me. He never talked to my wife, he never talked to my kids. He never talked to anybody else to verify my story. So the g B I never verified your alibi. They never talked to any other other

my my wife, or my children. They never talked to them too, you know, never talked to her to say was this what happened? He never come back and talked to me. I haven't heard from him since that day. He talked to me ten minutes in his car, and I told him about her calling me at since clock. I told him about us leaving in the middle of the night and going over there, my wife and I, and I asked him when I finished telling that, I asked him did he think they could solve the caation?

He said, yes, every case is this case is solvable. And so I was left with a feeling that, Okay, they got enough information somewhere that they will be able to solve this in a short time or a reasonable time. And after that day, the GBA and nobody's ever contacted me. I think they may have. I know my sister and my brother have called them, but they've never called me or told me, you know, we're still working on this, or we've got some leads, or is there anything else

you can tell me. You've asked me more question and they've asked me. Did they record the conversation that took place in the car? Not to my knowledge. If he did, he didn't tell me, but not to my knowledge. He took him maybe a few notes, but he to my knowledge, and recording a home. Do you know if he talked to anyone on the white Man side of the family, I don't know. He didn't tell me, he didn't ask for he didn't elaborate. I might have been in a

guardian minute with him. And I've told you or you've asked more than he asked me. Did anybody ever tell you how they were murdered? Not directly that Friday night? Because it was large families. Tommy Joe's family was large, and they were on Rebecca, and then we lived on this into the county. My brother lived in another county,

my sister lived in town. So at that time, for you know, no reason other than the fact that we both had large families and lots of friends, and also we agreed that that some of the people can meet it at my house and some of the people can meet at Charles Henry's house. So we met here and that night, Friday night, the distric attorney our district attorneys

in another county. He's from Tifton, and the disc attorney came over to the house and we went upstairs, me my sister and my brother, and I believe the sheriff was here, and we went up into a room and he told us that, you know, they had been murdered. He told us they had been shot, but he didn't give us any other details more than that it was a murder case, that they felt like that some marson was involved in it, and that they were shot. He didn't tell us where, He didn't tell us with what

or nothing like that. You know, I didn't have a problem with that. But that's all the information on the other information I've gotten is, you know, a little bit here and a little bit there, you hear from someone people taught that were involved in it. Has anyone in law enforcement ever told you what kind of gun was used? No, has anyone in law enforcement ever told you where your sister was shot? Has anyone in law enforcement ever told

anybody you know, either of those things I could. And so people have commented that, you know, and I don't know if it's their opinion, are if they have heard it from some law enforcement, people have commented where they might have been shock. I know. Finally, I wasn't allowed to go up the night of the murder and when the fire they were still putting out the fire. But three or four days later, within a week, we were

allowed to go up to the house. They said that they had done all the investigating they needed to do, and so we were allowed to go up to the house and you can tell where they had sifted through the ash and everything. And I questioned one of the law enforcement about, you know, why was this area sifted through more than other areas. Was that where the bodies might have been? And he said, well, that was left

there for y'all's benefit. I'm sorry said that again. When we went into the house, the house was burnt down and there was nothing but rubbling ash and you could walk through what was left. This was about a week after the murder. They did say the wires were cut. I did either. All enforcement are some of the firemen, the gay there said that the telephone wires had been cut to the house. They do know that. I did hear that from some from an official line. I couldn't

say which one. But we were allowed to go up to the house. And so my brother and my sister and some others we went to the house. And I did question why did they allow us to go up there so soon? Or I thought was soon after the murder, because I told maybe they would want more time for themselves to check and see if I can find any clues. But we were allowed to go out there, and you could tell some areas were it looked like maybe they

had sifted through the rubble and the ashes more. And so I asked a law official, was that were they were when they were shot? And he said that. He didn't come out and say yes. He said, well, that was left there for y'all's benefit. What did you interpret that to me? I thought that meant that's where they were they were laying. I don't know wine they would want us to see where they were laying, but I thought that's that was the way of saying yes without

telling me yes. So if that's the case, can you describe for us where the individuals were laying. I think one was probably in a living room, one was in the hall, and one was in the doorway of a bedroom. None of this was at the front door. It was all in the interior of the house. Correct. I had been in the house before I had won every time of Joe was staying there. I had been a bout the house of time or two and been inside the house. So one area appeared to be what was the dinner

living room. One area was in what was the hall the house, and you know he had a hall. You go down to the three bedrooms. One was area where the ashes were sent. It looked like it was in the hall, and one appeared to be in the doorway. So basically, the law enforcement officers on the scene, without telling you directly, they were letting you know that the bodies were located inside the house. Well, they weren't there when we went. There were no loss or was there

at the house when we went. We were just told we could go and visit the side if we wanted to. But a law enforcement official did tell you that those Okay, that was a later time. So so basically law enforcement told you that the shootings took place inside the residents. They didn't tell me that. They led me to believe that by what telling me that we when I asked a question, was that where the bodies were? Then you hate to assume, but that's once you assumed, they were

allowing you to know. That's what you took away from this is that it happened inside, but the bodies were found inside. Law enforcement told you that the telephone wire was cut to the residents. If it's a law enforcement or one of the firefighters, but one of the officials that was there when they were putting out the fire, whether it was a fireman or whether it was a volunteer fireman or one of the losses. I don't remember which one, but we were told that the phone arts

hadn't been cut. I couldn't say who, but I was also told I asked, I did ask the question. I don't remember what law losser or whatever. But the door was not locked, and so I know Tim would not have opened the door to have told a stranger in the middle of the night. I asked one of the fireman, I did ask the question, was the doors locked? And he said no. So we've got a cut telephone line

at an unlocked door and bodies located inside. The residents that's the information that I've gathered from different ones that were the responders that were there at the fire, from different responders over time. I didn't get all those answers from the same person, but over time, different ones that I had talked to that were there was a volunteer

fireman or whether it was a law officer. Those are some things that that would told you mentioned that your sister and some others from time to time have contacted the gb I about this, K. Do you know if the GBI has told them anything? I do not they You know, we would talk something, we don't. You know, every time I hear something, I don't call them because a lot of us hearsay and any time you talk with somebody, some of it's something they've heard from two

or three other sources. So I don't call them every time I hear something. They don't call me every time that they hear something. But you know, we have we do communicate, But I don't know. I couldn't tell you what all the g b I has told them. Do you have that they have not contacted me and told me anything. Do you have the impression that anybody is really still working on this case or is it your belief that it's probably gathering dust on the files, gathering

dust somewhere. Sometimes I feel like he's gathering dust because I haven't heard anything in the g B I, So I don't know. I don't know if he's any pressure put on them. They weren't politically involved or sometimes I've feld that way, and I don't blame we've had. You know, now we're on our third sheriff that's been elected. We had a sheriff that was in from for a short time between elections. We're on our fore sheriff. And by now,

you know, it grows cold. And I know the lead investigator that was working with the sheriff's department when the murder happened, he no longer works with the sheriff's department. So I don't know what. You don't know what theories he had. You don't know what suspicions he had. You don't know what evidence he had somebody else, you know, they come in. I don't know how much of that he passed along. I don't know what theories he might

have had that he could have been working on. So you know, you have to question, where is it getting cold? The President sheriff I have talked to and he has talked to me, and he has communicated with me. He told me one time not long ago that he had communicated with the g b I and was wanting them to get maybe a different set of eyes looking at the evidence to see, you know, someone else maybe could pick up or see something that the original investing hers

might not see. Is there anything else that you think is important that we haven't talked about, that I've missed, that you think might be important. I just want someone to, you know, just keep asking questions and keep it current, because sooner or later, you know, maybe somebody will say something,

somebody will remember something. People have a tendency either if someone that didn't have a conscious at all, they either going to brag about it, or someone has a conscious they're gonna feel guilty and want to tell someone maybe to get forgiveness. So one or the two. Either they're gonna brag about doing it and not getting caught, or either they're going to want someone to forgive them because

their consciousness bothering them. But either way, they're going to talk to somebody somewhere sometime, And so we have to keep it going and keep it current so that that

person that hears that vital information will come forward with it. Well, what I can tell you is that we've recently come across some information that somebody claims to know quite a bit about the specific facts of this case, and we've passed that onto the g b I. What they do with it, I don't know, But what I can tell you is that we've come across some information that has the potential to solve this case, and we passed it

onto the g b I very recently. Well, I am very grateful, and I'm very thankful for what you're doing. I'm thankful that you took interest in it and that you're bringing it back to light, because that keeps people talking,

and it keeps it fresh on other people's mind. And each time we did a let my sheriff, they would come and they would ask for my vote, and I would ask them to treat the case as though it was one of their relatives, meaning that I wouldn't want them to just put it in a box and let it collect dust, but to keep digging at it until they found somebody. After speaking with David Wheeler, I thought more about what I had heard, and I reached back

out to clarify just a couple of details. I wanted to know more about the scene at Charles Henry's house the morning of the fire, David wrote to me. When we arrived at Charles Henry and Diane's home, Charles Henry told us Chip was there. So just to keep things straight here, Chip Wideman is Charles Henry's adult son who was married at the time and did not live at his parents house. David goes on to say he was told Chip had taken a bath and gone to bed.

That conversation took place at approximately four to four thirty a m. We did not see Chip until close to lunch on Friday. To my knowledge, Charles Henry voluntarily told us about Chip. We never asked where he was. David also clarified that, according to what he was told at the time of the fire, Diane Wideman was in Florida along with her son, Chip's wife, visiting Miss Joe, and that they had been there since the day before the fire,

which would have been Thursday. We've actually been looking at the Wideman murders for quite some time now, you see. When Payne Lindsay, host of our Sister podcast up in was in South Georgia investigating the disappearance of Irwin County history teacher and beauty queen Tera Grinstead. Someone told paying some very compelling information about the Wideman murders in nearby Rebecca, Georgia. Later, however, when we tried to follow up with this person, he

didn't have anything to say except for calling us swine. Nevertheless, we were able to independently corroborate much of what the caller had initially said the first time. We were able to corroborate that his ex son in law did in fact Diana car crash, and we were able to corroborate that a close relative of the Wideman murder victims was a pallbearer at the funeral following that car crash. So why the change of heart on behalf of this caller.

That's anyone's guess at this point. But this person's purported knowledge of the case could well be the key to finally solving the Wideman murder case. After fifteen long years, just by talking to the community, asking questions and looking at publicly available information, we've learned quite a bit about

this unsolved triple murder. I wonder what would be possible if the g b I, or even someone like John Dawes were to really put their shoulder into this, what else might they learn if they redoubled their efforts with

the full investigative capabilities of the State of Georgia. Now it's important to understand we're not accusing anyone of anything, but in addition to the phone call that we turned over to the g b I, which frankly, in my opinion, has the potential to solve this case entirely, we did come across something else that we found interesting and at a minimum quite odd. Remember, Tommy, Joe and Deborah Wideman had a nephew, Charles Wideman the third, also known as

Chip Wideman. According to David Wheeler, Chip and his father Charles, were the only ones at Charles Wideman's home on the morning of the murders. He also mentioned that Chip wasn't really anywhere to be seen in the immediate aftermath of the fire. I don't know what this means, and we're not accusing anyone of anything, but one thing on chips Facebook page at the time of this recording really caught our attention. It's what is listed as his favorite quote.

It says three can keep a secret if two are dead. We will continue to follow this case in the future and plan to come out with more episodes in a few months, so please, if you have any information at all about this case, contact the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. You can also contact us directly at Sworn tips at gmail dot com. Sworn is produced by Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta. Story and production by Payne Lindsay, Mason Lindsay and Meredith

Steadman and myself Philip Holloway. Sound designed by Pine Lindsay, Executive producers Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Mixed and mastered by Resonate Recordings. Also, if you haven't yet, please check out our sister podcast, Up and Vanished that follows the investigation into the disappearance of Georgia High School teacher and beauty queen Tara Grinstead ven Vanished is available now on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening. This is Philip Holloway and I'll see you next time on Sword