Episode 330

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all audiences.

Listener discretion is advised.

What happened, It's okay, it's okay. Get it off your chest.

I didn't do anything.

You're a liar.

You danced around in her blood and blah blah, yay me, look at me. Here's to you, Satan.

Here's to you, my first sacrifice.

Life is hard, but it is wonderful, isn't it? And every day is a gift. So thank you for sharing yours with us today. This is episode three hundred and thirty of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals it the worst monsters are really tucked into the no their an edge of Saint Joseph, Missouri. Krug Park spans one hundred and sixty three acres of meticulously landscaped grounds, Renaissance style architecture, and winding walking trails.

Sounds nice, not.

For its rose gardens, quiet lagoon and even whimsical Italian castle. The park draws families and joggers alike, especially when it transforms into a glowing spectacle during the holidays. But beneath its tranquil charm and seasonal cheer, Krug Park holds a dark memory, one that shattered it's peaceful Facade's take a number one.

Where here emergency?

I'm not out running the trails to Krug Pork and I'm pretty sure I just ran right across.

The dead body.

Why do you think that there's a dead body there?

I wasn't sure there's a mannequin like Halloween or not, but because it's just sitting there still. But I just stood there, you know, for two minutes, trying to check everything in and it's real.

I didn't touch it.

I didn't know it.

Does she have any injuries or anything like that?

You know?

I came up to the front, but it looked like a whole woman over chest and then cut by her neck, like where her neck was. Okay, can you describe the person Tomy young waiting completely like her close girl rips office.

She was right next to her.

Did you see any hair, eye color on the female?

The wider wide open the ground.

On the morning of October sixteenth, twenty sixteen, a young man was walking through Crug Park when he made a discovery that would haunt him for the rest of his life. He found the body of a teenage girl lying exposed on the jogging trail. She had been stabbed repeatedly, her throat slit. This was no accident. It was a brutal and deliberate killing. When investigators arrived, the details were as strange as they were disturbing. The girl was naked, her

Now, is Caitlin the only child you guys have together?

Yes?

Okay?

And when was the last time you saw Caitlyn?

It was actually in person?

It was probably around the I think probably the seventh okay.

Caitlyn's parents were divorced and she wasn't living with either of them at the time, which partly explained why no missing person's report had been filed before her body was found.

And when was the last time that she stayed with you? It's been about a year and by a year through. What's Caitlin's lifestyle? Like Jesus, let's follow her friends, okay, do whatever they do?

Okay.

A few months before the murder, Caitlyn's mother was preparing for an out of state job transfer. At the time, Caitlyn was living with her, but the prospect of leaving her friends behind didn't sit well. She was determined to stay in Saint Joseph. Looking for another option, Caitlyn reached out to her best friend's mom and grandmother to ask if she could move in with them. They didn't hesitate

How do you feel about Caitlyn before this all happened?

You, what'd you think about her?

She's my daughter, She's not my biological No, But from the moment she walked in the door met me, I was mom.

That was that.

Caitlyn was welcomed by a loving family who offered her care and support. But the home was considerably chaotic and very crowded.

Hula lives there with her.

There's a list.

There's my buddy Pablo, and then Tabitha and her two daughters, and then grandma Grandpa and then basically they're nurses.

Don't care people take care of it.

Okay, yeah, but.

They also are trying to living at the residence.

Oh really, Yeah, there's actually two houses right next to store to each other. Okay, Grandpa has one and the grandma eyed the other.

And so where does Caitlyn stay? She stayed in Gremls.

Despite the crowded living situation, everyone in the house was glad to have Caitlyn move in. They genuinely liked her. In fact, Caitlin was well liked by many. Her cheerful personality and charm made people naturally gravitate towards her.

Caitlyn has she's crazy because it's a good crazy.

What do you mean by that?

Like, I she's kind of my personality, which is a bubbly which and Kaitlyn's she's fine to be wrong.

Yeah.

Tragically, Caitlyn's life was cut short at just seventeen years old, and investigators were faced with the heartbreaking duty of informing her family and friends that the young woman found in Krug Park was Caitlin Root.

You know, there's really no.

Easy way to say this or do this.

We do believe it is kit And and that was stunned up in crud Park. We're really probably pretty certain it is.

We do have a couple of pictures that.

If you'd be willing to take a look out to say for sure. Yeah, you know, there's really no easy way to prepare yourself for this. No, I'll just you know when you're ready, if you just want.

To Yeah, that's fair, relatively certain or one hundred percent or.

How can you be so sure?

There's too about a picture.

I'm so so very sorry for your loss.

Ye, Sanna says, you do that, Jar.

We're going to do everything in our power, you know, to be able to answer all the questions for you.

Naturally, everyone who knew and loved Caitlyn were desperate for answers. They wanted to know who had done this to her and why.

I just want to know who, so would we, And we're working on I just can't figure out why.

Even if we figure out who.

Why, hopefully they'll be able to explain it. Caitlyn.

Who would be that mad at her?

I don't know.

For a time, the case was a classic who'd done it? Caitlyn was an extremely well like teenager, making the brutal nature of her murder all the more perplexing. Investigators and loved ones alike were left asking the same haunting question, why would anyone want to kill her? Adding to the confusion, no one could explain why Caitlin had even been at Kirk Park in the first place.

So, as far as you do, you think it's out a character for her to be walking in the park.

Yes, she enjoyed nature at all, but.

She's never been to the park krug Park ever.

Okay, and the time even owners didn't like to be. She hasn't been there since I've known her about a year or two. I don't think she would go to the park unless it was a cohercion.

In their efforts to unravel the mystery, investigators spoke with several of Caitlyn's family members and everyone she'd been living with. All were cleared as suspects, and no one could shed light on why Caitlyn had gone to Krug Park that night the night she was killed. With those leads, exhausted, detectives shifted their focus to another group of people, Caitlyn's boyfriends.

She has dated several people. He has she was a very promiscuous, a little oh really, yes, And I'm not saying that.

To inspect disrespect her character, but she was.

And the week before this all happened, and she and I had gotten into an argument over it. I said, Caitlyn, I wouldn't have to do that to be liked.

Do you think she was doing to be liked?

I think she was doing it to be liked to.

Fit in.

Caitlyn had been through many short lived relationships, but at the time of her murder, she wasn't dating anyone.

So who's Caitlin dating at the time? She was dating nobody? Okay, who was she seeing somebody before?

Not that I knew, Like I knew there's somebody named Kevin at the time.

Okay.

If I were saying to give me somebody that would want to hurt her, who would come.

To your mind?

Mmm?

I would have to say Kevin.

Why would you say Kevin?

From what she was telling me before that she has put hands on her.

During the initial round of interviews, one name surfaced repeatedly, Kevin Whitmer. It quickly became clear that there had been some recent tension or drama between him and Caitlyn.

I know she was getting threats from Kevin Allan Whittmer.

She sent you about the guy who hit her? Yeah, who's this Whitmer? Apparently he hit her on Friday. She sent him a message saying, hey he hit me and stuff like that. Well, then other people started putting on was she putting on Facebook public?

Right?

Publicly?

Then all these other people started commenting on that.

What was it about?

Any idea what that was about?

No?

I had no clue.

Rumors started to swirl after a Facebook post and a string of comments beneath It suggested that Kevin Whitmer had recently gotten violent with Caitlin, but before investigators had a chance to find Kevin, he contacted them and voluntarily came to the police station for an interview.

How did you win it with her?

She is a friend of my old buddies. How long actually knowing her for? Probably maybe three weeks? When's the first time you gotta started talking or hanging out or whatever?

Actually talking? It would have been profotly three weeks ago.

That's just you know, conversation.

But when did you guys start hanging.

Out, hanging out dating? I think the first time we hung out was like a week and a half ago.

What did you guys do?

Just drove around?

Are you guys hanging up?

Its friends?

Yeah, friend looking into engaging in a relationship with her. She wanted to, but she's seventeen. I'm twenty one. That's my thing.

She wanted to, and I was like, I'm cool with friends, but that's as far as it's going to go. She tried to kissing me. I mean we kissed.

That's about it.

That's the end of it.

Twenty one year old Kevin told investigators he had only known Caitlyn for a short while and insisted he had no interest in a romantic relationship with her. According to him, that was Caitlyn who had wanted something more.

And then we finally got to hang out Thursday, and then she stayed the night with me.

You guys watch movies.

He wasn't sitting there on Facebook and talking.

Did she stay the night that night?

Okay? Anything going on that night? Now, here's the deal.

We've already talked about this seventeen twenty one, right, illegal, So I just want to make sure that you're telling you please. And later, the most she and I did talk to her about, you know, having sex. I just and she told me that she's had sex with multiple people, and I'm like, that's not going to happen. So we just cuddled and when we got up next morning, we laid in bed until probably, like I said, twelve thirty one o'clock, and then I took her ound and dropped her off.

Kevin explained he was put off by Caitlin's age and her alleged promise scuity, so he chose not to sleep with her or pursue a relationship. He also claimed the last time he saw her was three days before the murder, when he dropped her off at home. The following day, he received a strange and threatening phone call.

Six eight nine number called me and I was like, are you Kevin Whitmer? And I was like, who's this and he's like, don't worry about it.

Just know that you're a woman beat and if you're gonna beat on a woman and you can beat on me.

So I called Kitlyn and I was like, what the hell is going on? And she's like, you know, you hit me twice and gave me two bloody noses. And I was like, the fuck ever, I don't put my hands on women. She's like, you know what you did and fuck off or whatever, and she hung up on me. So I made a status after that and put it on Facebook. I have all the screenshots of all the comments up today to last night. Whenever I went to sleep, I woke up this morning like thirty plus people will comment on it.

So I just went and deleted it.

According to Kevin, Caitlyn had told someone you hit her. This was an allegation that he firmly denied.

Was her claiming that he punched her in the face and gave her a blighty nose and all that.

Why do you think that she would say that? What does she get out of it attention?

I don't know honestly.

With this new information, investigators were faced with possibilities, neither of which was easy to prove. Either Caitlyn upset over being rejected or falsely accused Kevin of violence, or Kevin was lying to cover up something far more sinister. Without evidence, both scenarios seemed frustratingly out of reach, and this was just the beginning. As the investigation unfolded, detectives encountered a growing list of unusual suspects, each one adding new layers

What exactly did she tell you about her?

This guy has the.

Biggest crush on her, going to be with him as messenger suicidally.

He wants to cut his health, He wants to kill his hell without on.

A Police were already familiar with the name Adam Brown. He was one of Caitlyn's closest friends. They'd known each other for years and were often seen together. To those who knew them, the dynamic was clear. Adam wanted something more, but Caitlyn had firmly placed him in the friend zone.

Adam hen always had a thing for it just never worked out.

Yeah, that's the way I would interpret it, just being by actions.

What do you mean by his actions?

He was always trying to impress her in somewhere.

She thought of him as a brother.

Nothing.

He he wanted more, He wanted more.

Do you think he was jealous of the attention neither young man got from her.

If he was, he never let a show.

And technically he's the last person we really know was seen with her right by his own mission.

Right after gathering some background information on Adam's relationship with Caitlyn, investigators brought him in for questioning.

WHOA.

I believe it was like fifteenth Saturday.

So I message Kitlyn and I asked her if she wanted to hang out for a little bit and I can come by because she was where she was staying was like right up the street from me.

Frinish just set over on the other portrait Grandpa.

So we were just talking and talking.

And talking, kissing up and we were just sitting there and then she like jumps off the fortune was like I gotta.

Go meet to Amanda. And I'm like, Amanda who.

And then she said, Amanda mix and I'm like, I wouldn't even just stay home.

It's late.

Told you get hurt.

Adam freely admitted he was with Caitlyn on the front porch of her home the night she was murdered, and that he was the last person to see her alive. He claimed that during their final moments together, Caitlyn abruptly decided to leave and meet up with someone else, Poor Adam. Adam said he I had to warn her not to go, but she ignored his advice.

She listened.

She went down to the corner on fifteenth and Olive got into the car that I couldn't even actually recognize. It looks like a sub ish kind of lookod thing, and it's last heard from her.

Adam told investigators that Caitlin stepped off her front porch, walked down the road, and climbed into a mysterious black suv. If you've heard enough Sword and Scale, you know that this kind of story immediately raises some red flags. Investigators wondered why someone would pick her up down the street instead of at her house. What were they trying to avoid or hide? Did this even really happen or was it just a whole story that Adam was making up just to cover his tracks.

So you guys just aw sitting there chatting on the front porch. So when does take a leave?

She left about like in between like ten thirty and eleven.

So how did she tell me? Started how she's up the leaves?

She was messaging Amanda on Facebook, and.

Uh, what's the relationship between her and Amanda as far than ano, They're just friends and.

That's Amanda Mix.

Yeah, have they have had any trouble with each other before or no? But I've had my doubts about Amanda, and I don't really trust her. What do you mean, Patrick, Donton Like, to me, she's just not the kind of the right kind of people really be hanging out with personal nitpicking things that meet her.

We just don't click, don't make a long run.

Yeah.

So basically, yeah, they were texting on Facebook. That's whenever she was like, I gotta ry to get down here, She's about to pull up and everything.

I'm like, oh, you should not go.

Did you say what she's gonna go do?

She said that they were gonna go sit at Hyde Park and they were gonna basically be hanging out and everything else, just basically doing girl stuff.

Adam identified the person who picked up Caitlyn as someone named Amanda Mix. This was a name that caught investigators off guard. Until this moment, no one else had mentioned her in connection with this case.

So, actually, when Caitlyn laugh, you were the only one I truly see her leave. Pretty much I was sitting on the fort on the Yeah.

Investigators were clearly wary about him. There's something a little shady about him. They questioned both his account of that night and how he characterized his relationship with Caitlyn.

There was a brief moment where I we thought me and her need to eat together. But no, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna date my best friend for twelve years.

No.

So basically I was just so, how long did you guys date or how long did not work out?

We pretty much we were together for us six hours to really, uh, guys at repsacks, do you have any idea who might have done something to her?

I mean I can only pretty much like start where basically the first person I knew about that she was gonna be with, which would be a Manda, Like That's what That's why I think.

About first all the heck would I get in touch with Amanda?

That's a very good question that I haven't been able to get hold of.

Her all day.

Despite their doubts about Adam's story, investigators decided to look into Amanda mix. What they found was intriguing. Amanda, as it turns out, was once Caitlin's best friend.

You said that Amanda Mix and her were friends, but they had a falling out and recently.

And that person she was last thing with at time?

How do you know that?

From everybody who's told me that she came over to the house at fifteen to get Caitlyn And.

Before long, Amanda's name started coming up repeatedly in the investigation. Some even claimed that the former best friend of Caitlyn's had confessed to murder and the.

Next day that the candle lighting, My brother came up to me crying. I mean he was like shaking and crying, and he's like, hey, dude, he said, I'm glad I found you.

He's like, I'm scared shitless right now. He's like, she admitted it. He was like, admitted, who who come down and tell me what was going on? He sat there and told me, he's like, she admitted it.

I was like, who, mid what?

He's like Amanda?

She admitted that she, her and several other people would beat that ship out of that root girl.

Did they You said earlier that they did.

You referred to them as they had jumped her.

I don't know who they are, okay. He just said Amanda and several other people.

Eventually, investigators brought Amanda Mix in for questioning, but her situation was a bit different from the other potential suspects. Unlike the rest, Amanda had not come willingly. She was picked up on an unrelated outstanding warrant. What you know is always a good sign.

Do you know a girl?

My name paper Root?

Yes?

How do you know?

Do I have to say all this?

Well, I'm I'm just asking questions.

I'm just curious how we know work?

Well, she's your best friend?

Oh, she's a best friend?

Was tip.

I don't really, I don't hang on anyone.

What happened?

Which you too?

I mean that you guys aren't friends anymore.

Well somemore like we didn't be like just when our suzing this, I don't have any turn.

This from a man that told investigators there was no bad blood between her and Caitlyn. They had simply grown a part over time, which is why they were no longer as close as they once were.

You never had a falling out as Caitlin than anything a while back, while, you guess, I mean because I haven't. I've got friends of that girl now for a long time. Was everything that ever happened between you two that he was kind of lost track of each other.

They're just I haven't I've lost off friends because I don't. I don't want thing in the rock people.

Are you are even really mad or passed off a Caitlyn or anything?

Okay, this is about I'm messing about Caitlyn.

Okay, So why is I mean?

Why, Well, she's missing what she's missing?

Yeah?

When did miss the other day?

I'm not quite sure what they's the last time you saw her?

Oh, I've just seen her.

I mean I went to a fuck. I don't know the day. It was like some day last week, because there's I love Caitlyn, I really do, and I don't know anything.

I haven't the last time I've seen her but that when we have a ride.

Amanda appeared genuinely unaware that Caitlyn was dead. She told investigators the last time she saw her was more than a week before the murder. According to Amanda, she and her boyfriend were walking past Caitlyn's house when they spotted her sitting on the front porch. Amanda asked if anyone inside could give them a ride home, and Caitlyn found someone willing to help. Since that day, Amanda had no seen or heard from Caitlyn, or so she claimed her Facebook.

Talked about Yeah. Yeah, not recently.

No recently.

It hasn't been recently at all.

I have, don't somebody something you guys talked the other day on Facebook?

Is that not true?

That's not true.

I have talked to Caitlyn on Facebook that I mean, Facebook accounts.

To you one.

I just feel like there's something You're just one does I promise I'm not keep me anything from.

Amanda also claimed she had not communicated with Caitlin through texts or social media in quite some time. If true, that directly contradicted Adam Brown's statement. He told police that Caitlyn was messaging Amanda the very night she was killed.

I don't be honest.

We talked with somebody said that you were with her Saturday night?

Are you serious?

Yeah?

Okay, I wouldn't for Saturday Night's no big deal.

Why something would lie and say that you were with her on Saturday.

Exactly unless they don't want to get somebody else in trouble. I could get a serious trouble. Was whatever the fuck's going on?

What's going on?

Whatever the situation is. I don't know what's going on, saying.

So, you mean tell me you didn't know that Kitlan has been missing?

No, I didn't know, shouldn't No, Now, so.

What would you say, I said, if somebody saw you leaving with her about ten o'clock Saturday night.

I laugh, actually, because it's true ten o'clock that I was under my roof.

Amanda insisted she was home the night of the murder, and she was adamant about it. She even claimed she could back it up. At the time, Amanda was living in a group home, and she told investigators that the house manager could confirm her whereabouts.

That's hilarious, did.

Kissing me off?

But if we called Tina right now, we get us all verified.

But I don't know if you called her, we'll get around to calling her, said, I try to get to cant with all this. Okay, she all ship because I didn't leave with her at ten o'clock. Pena, I mean, very very I don't know, y'all.

This is a full ship. That's why I would like you to call her around.

So let's see if I'll get somebody to call Tina.

Yeah, exactly, she didn't even tell you I was there.

Saturday night.

Amanda urged investigators to contact her house manager to confirm her alibi, and she grew increasingly impatient as the questioning continued.

I have not hoped, Caitlyn, I try to repeating myself. No, I want to know the whole story. That's what I want to know.

That's exactly what I want to know, because I'm telling you, guys, what the fuck I.

Did Saturday night ten o'clock.

Yeah, well, I'm telling you that people are telling me you the last person that.

Well, that's hilarious. Call Tina please when because I want to hear her.

Tell y'all you know this sounds like one of the mysteries fucking TV shows does so this is Cartina, Please give us your figure it.

Out like this is ridiculous. If y'all just call, y'all know the fucking truth. I'm not totally enjoy cartoon.

It's one of those things.

It's one of those things where you can't get that fucking bird right now?

Is that not make sense?

You can go give my boyfriend and he'll tell you the same exactly ship.

Why are young?

Because he's I'm really doing something to Kaitlyn. I don't really fucking talk to Kaitlyn anymore. Anything happened to face? Okay, she's missing. Oh so something obviously has happened.

Maybe she's in Cansteady. Maybe Calen.

How do you know that?

I've been friends with her for a while. So but I know, Okay, just because I'm no, I will go. No, I'm done, I don't want to talk.

I'm not talking.

I'm gonna be silent. I just will go, That's all.

Amanda took a firm stance with investigators and ultimately chose to remain silent, which is of course her right. When they followed up with their house manager, the story she gave them seemed to check out. Amanda had signed in early that evening, but the alibi wasn't airtight. Nothing would have prevented her from slipping out unnoticed. Later that night,

So, Amanda and Sebashian both live with you, correct? And how long has you been.

Living with you?

He's been there at least over a year.

Where's Amanda working at right now?

She worked at and Morpholt Pizza Hut with me.

And how about Sebastian whores?

She work at the McDonald's down on the interstate.

What do they do for the fun besides that the house? What kind of things do they do?

I don't really do much, That's what I'm saying.

Said.

I have internet and netflips and all that, so they very much to stay in their room and watch TV or they play video games.

They ever going where and hanging out? Not really, No anyone ever come to the house hang out.

And that's been a lot of Amanda's problems. She don't have very many friends, so she doesn't have any friends, and she'll tell you that she doesn't hang out with anybody.

Investigators learned that seventeen year old Amanda Bennett and her eighteen year old boyfriend Sebastian Dowell were living with Amanda's mom. The couple was reclusive, with no known friends or social connections. What they did have was a newborn son who was just a few months old. The soft cooping heard in the background of this interview belongs to their baby.

I don't keep trying Sebastian honestly, because I can care less about Sebastian.

What's with that?

Well, he's lazy pretty much. There's always an excuse why he can't get up there to work, or you know, he doesn't want to do any tours around the house. He's just not a good dad. She's usually up with the baby all night.

She's been trying to go to school and then working, and he does nothing, and it makes me mad.

And I was to the point, I've been talking to my son. I said, you know, she's been talking.

About moving out with them, and if that's the case, I'm giving attorney.

And get CASTI ah Siler because.

From what it sounds, and he also has a two year old little girl, and I know that he doesn't ever see her.

More page old sport doesn't do anything for a man.

His mom shared some background with investigators about her daughter and Sebastian. She confirmed that both were high school dropouts, with Amanda working at Pizza Hut and Sebastian at McDonald's. What a pair. She also admitted she wasn't fond of Sebastian, describing him as a lazy, inattentive, and irresponsible father. When asked about the night Caitlin Root was murdered. She recalled that Amanda and Sebastian had gone out, supposedly to see

Yes?

Okay, so we came home.

Sebastian was home with the baby, and I'm going to watch on my phone because I want to say that that was the night they went to the movies.

As far as I know, they went to the movies, is what I was told.

Okay, I'm going to take your car. Yes, And what time do you think they text you to tell you that they're going over to Jermys.

Well, they didn't actually text me to tell me that it's where they were going. I text her and asked her, I said, where are you guys at? Because I don't think the movie lasts no three hours, so it was like ten, I'm on twelve thirty.

She said, oh, we came over to Jeremy's house.

After their conversation with Amanda's mom, investigator sat down with Amanda herself, who appeared remarkably unfazed by the situation, showing little concern or emotion as the questioning started.

You're seventeen, okay today birthday?

Yeah?

What was the last grade level?

And sto?

When you completed? I finished sophomore year and you're working anywhere Northville? Any idea why you're here?

M hmm.

I'll be honest, I find it hard to believe you don't know why you're here. We have a lot of information, we have a lot of evidence, and I know you know why you're here.

You know.

I don't believe that your involvement is done on your own. I know that you know as somebody else was there, and we don't think you're a bad person, not at all.

When do I ask for a lawyer?

You can ask for a lawyer any time you want, if that's.

What you want to do.

Do you guys think I did something?

So what do you think we think you did?

I don't know.

Then I would think you would.

Want to find out what you're supposed.

To tell me? What do you think I do?

Amanda claim she had no idea what was going on, and it quickly became clear that a confession wasn't coming anytime soon. Shifting tactics investigators eased into a gentler line of questioning, focusing instead on her relationship with Sebastian.

Does he stay anywhere else now? Even occasionally every night? At you the thumb on that right? Make sure he's very supposed to be.

Yep, he's pretty.

You got to keep a lock on that.

He's pretty. Yet, do you guys ever go out separate? Do you guys ever do separate things?

You go?

He goes where he goes, you go.

Huh?

Except for work, of course?

Yeah. I'm usually at his work too, But except for when I work.

Who do you guys run around with? I mean, who do you guys do stuff with? Other than you know, when you guys go through something friends? You guys don't run around with anybody. You don't hang out with anybody. It's just you two exciting and we just don't have friends. We don't have any Sebastian didn't.

Have any friends.

No, I don't. I don't let him.

Amanda was pretty open about her relationship with Sebastian and admitted to being a very controlling presence in his life. Let's put it that way.

I shaved his legs.

What he lets you shave his legs?

Like with a razor shave, like all the way up top all the way down.

Why's that I.

Wanted to get rid of his masculinity?

Okay, now you're gonna have to explain that one to me.

You got me scratched, Well you do too.

Apparently, investigators also questioned Amanda about her religious beliefs, particularly her views on the devil. Their curiosity stemmed from a search of her bedroom, where they had found books related to Satanism. In her basement, they also found a journal penned by Amanda that was full of bizarre writings about demons, sacrificing souls and controlling fire with one's mind. How about that?

So, what do you think about the devil? Do you think the devil is this? Have you ever looked into other forms of religion? Have you ever considered of the forms of religion a sparimn with a that, or any Satanic step or anything like that.

So you have faith in God, but you've questioned it.

Well, I've grown up believing that, Like ever since I was born, I was in a church environment.

After gaining more insight into Amanda, her relationship with Sebastian and her beliefs, investigators turned to a crucial question, where was she in Sebastian on the night of October fifteenth, twenty sixteen, the night Caitlin Root was murdered.

We were gonna go to the movies because I got two for like free tickets, you know how they use free tickets.

But we watched The.

Girl in the Train.

That is that good?

No, most scary movies nowadays are good.

They stayed for the whole movie.

The movie and.

Weird, just weird.

It was all like a mystery about like a murder.

Who did the murder?

Oh?

Pay in session.

It was a boring movie, and then we went to a specialist dad's house.

Amanda told investigators that she and Sebastian had gone to see the movie The Girl on the Train that night, but when asked about the plot, she couldn't recall a single detail. Pro tip, if you're gonna use a movie as an alibi, make sure you've actually seen it. Also, that movie was fantastic, So if you say it was boring, then you're either lying or you're extremely unintelligent, or most

Why would you tell me that you were at the movies when you.

Weren't at the movies?

Were the movies.

At the late? Movie was started at ten ten of Girl on the Train?

Then?

Why, I mean, are you guys like invisible or something? Or I mean, why won't you be on the video and you're not there?

Well, hey, you got to be there. If you were there, you had to go up to the window and get exchange your passes for tickets. Right, Neither one of you are on video getting the tickets there. They've got the videos on thumb drives. They're gonna bring them back here, you know, and you can't be there if you're not there. You know, all the cameras don't lie.

So tell me why you wouldn't be on on video?

I don't know.

I would suggest it's because you weren't there, And I would suggest you were somewhere else.

And you don't want to tell me about that.

We were of the movies.

What would you say if we had Sebastian on videos somewhere else?

I'd say you were a liar?

Are you afraid to tell us the truth?

No?

I went to the movie other than the movie.

Are you afraid to tell us the truth?

Are you afraid us to know everything?

But for us to know everything that happens Saturday nine?

I told you everything that happened.

In addition to the theater footage, police had surveillance from another location that placed Sebastian across town, alarmingly close to Kruk Park. A street camera captured him sitting in the passenger seat of Amanda's mom's car, presumably Amanda was behind the wheel.

So how do we explain that?

How do we explain your car with Sebastian in it being at a completely different location.

The time the movie was going on. Are you scared right now?

M M?

I would be because you're not telling it's the truth.

I would be looking for a chance to help yourself and stop lying.

I mean, if you think I did something wrong.

Either way, I'm going down.

No, that's not true. If you didn't do it, you wouldn't have anything to worry about. You wouldn't need to be scared. Right now, I'm not scared, but you should be because.

I know you did it, and I know see you think I did it.

No, I know, I understand. It's not It's not a matter. Don't get upset.

I'm talking to you, I mean a person being really. I told you I would not lie to you. I will not tell you that I can prove something that I can't prove. You know, this is not our first rodeo.

We've had a.

Tens seven homicides in Sant Joe in the past year. Yeah, at least that you found a body for it, right, it's probably more.

But is well? Who said anything about the homicide?

Google?

But I mean, we didn't say anything about a homicide.

Interestingly, the first mention of murder during this interview didn't come from investigators. It came from Amanda herself. Oops, I guess you're not the criminal mastermind you thought you were. I ain't that right, Amanda?

He says, this is a homicide we're talking about. Is there something we need to know about a homicide.

Well, you're investigating the homicide.

We're investigating hundreds of crimes.

Well that's the only one in the news, so I'm assuming.

So what do you know about the homicide? Then? Since you talking about it, what do you know about.

It the stuff in the news.

For a while, Amanda stuck to her flimsy story about going into the movies on the night of the murder, even though it had already been disproven, so investigators decided to leave her alone in the interrogation room and shift their focus to her boyfriend, eighteen year old Sebastian Dowell.

Saturday, did you work last Saturday?

A week ago today?

Well it's not good for sure?

Was off that? Okay?

So would you guys do anything Saturday?

No, we just stay home.

Stayed home the whole time.

It's Saturday.

High note, no daylight, No, just watch TV and watch Netflix.

For investigators, it was clear that Amanda and Sebastian hadn't coordinated their story very well. Amanda said they were going to a movie on the night of the murder, while Sebastian insisted they had stayed home the entire time.

So who's that the domin hearing the one in the house, probably her. There's nothing wrong with that. It's the same way, right, the same.

Way she jealous one.

She doesn't time my ass, damn like majorly majorly tell me about that almost just like me.

Efficient.

If she thinks I did something.

Wrong, she'll yell and so, what's so a violent thing she's ever done?

Over jealous him?

She uh.

Freshened my ribs.

I think she tried to stab me at one point.

Wow, how does she break your ribs?

She did me and punched me.

Ain't try to stab you.

Yeah, that's scary.

Yeah, but she has always been controlling.

I have to ask if I can move in the house.

I have to.

Ask her anything if I want to do anything.

Sebastian confirmed the control nature of his relationship with Amanda and added a disturbing layer. He claimed Amanda's dominance over him was enforced through violence, alleging that she had once fractured his ribs and even tried to stab him. While the rest of the interview offered deeper insight into their toxic and abusive relationship, much of the audio was difficult to make out, with Sebastian muttering barely above a whisper,

Again, I was lot there, but she'd being disrespectful, like.

In her face, like Jolman and Anna's face that.

She's who was kind of disrespectful as saying.

I guess what I'm kind of missing here is she are not really friends, but she shows up at the hospital and starts hitting on the father of the child.

I mean why, I mean, listen.

I have no idea.

According to Sebastian, during the hospital visit, Caitlin implied that Amanda's newborn son wasn't his, but rather a child of Amanda's ex boyfriend. This suggestion infuriated Amanda. Hooe's mad as they say. Finally, after two hours of questioning, Sebastian requested a lawyer bringing the interview to a close. Investigators then shifted their attention back to Amanda, returning to the interrogation room where she'd been waiting.

What happens at the homicide?

She did, Well, you know you've seen you saw.

Too with your own eyes mm hmm and at your hands mm hmm. She did, honey, mm hmmm. Your phone tells a different story, your messages.

And if you want to sit and continue to lie and say no, no, no, and when you go to court and we prove this, this, this, this, this and this that we have and you sit there and say I don't know anything, show no remorse, say you didn't.

Do it, and the reason is gone.

I mean we know.

It's not a threat.

Going to do that.

No, don you get convicted, honey, I'm going away forever. And you don't do anything to.

Help yourself to explain and be raised by somebody else to to.

Explain why this happened. Don't you think that everybody deserves to at least know why? Sure didn't tell us why?

Why?

What?

Why? You guys killed this girl?

We didn't kill anyone.

That's not true, and.

You know it.

This time, investigators adopted a much tougher approach with Amanda, and it quickly revealed the very cold and callous side of her personality.

There's only two people that were there, you and Sebastian. So you're telling me he did it all.

He didn't do anything that who did?

Then?

Bear?

You know what I'm beginning to think. What I'm beginning to.

Think is you are a very cool, hard person that you can sit here and have no emotion and make funnies about all this stuff to say, maybe she was killed by a bear.

I don't know, Oh you know exactly what she was killed by, but yeah, you sit here and make light of it like it's no big deal, taking a human line. It's you don't physically scare me that it's just spooky that you just have no emotion about it.

Possibly recognizing that they were dealing with someone who was deeply detached and sociopathic, investigators abandoned any pretensive gentleness and doubled down on their hard line approach with Amanda.

You killed her, I don't know. You're a liar. You like the fact that you killed Caitlyn Rutin. You can't wait to do it again.

You're a killer, and you like that.

You don't care.

Less than a week ago.

You killed somebody and you don't care. You probably went home and had a great time. Oh wasn't that fun? Wasn't that great?

I can't wait to do again.

Man, we should do it to silent.

You're sick.

You're sick. I've never killed anyone neither. You're a liar. You're a liar. You watched her die and you got off on it.

What was it like?

Were you looking in her eyes the whole time she's dying? Did she say anything to you? Do you replay it when you close your eyes at night. You and Sebastian are killers.

And you like it.

You like to be You want to be known as the people who kill people.

You're getting off on the fact that you know that you guys killed somebody together and you'll kill again because you're killers. You probably rubbed your blood all over your body and probably, I don't know, probably had some weird.

Second yeah shouting you did so. Did you say what happened? It's okay, it's okay, get it off your chest. You're a liar.

You danced around in her blood and probably yay me, look at me. Here's to you, Satan, here's to you my first sacrifice or is it my first sacrifice to you?

Despite their best efforts, investigators did not get a confession from Amanda, and eventually they had to call it quits. Amanda remained in the entireation room, waiting to be booked for murder. While she sat there, a different officer kept her company, and the two engaged in a surprisingly casual conversation about favorite TV shows and other everyday topics. During the course of that seemingly harmless chat, Amanda revealed some unsettling things about herself.

Nothing really bothers me because I've interacted with the supernatural. I've seen demons, I've so nothing really scares me anymore.

You ever do any of like the ghost hunting kind of stuff before.

I have an interested in that I.

Like to do.

I want to think I'm crazy, but I've been to Hell before, so once you cross over that border, you can see everything from a spiritual point of view, well, if they want you to see them. Hell's way more complex than what everyone says. Like there's no fun. For one, it's not hot, it's normal, and there's like it's.

Kind of like an office building.

There's different sections and each demon has like a secretary who goes out and collects like debts and souls from people. It's like corridors like that, and you get to decorate, you get to like design it however you want. Like the secretary for ahmadeir as a room exactly like this.

It's great, that's it.

As a man that continued to ramble on about are bizarre and quite frankly retarded beliefs, something unexpected was unfolding in the other interrogation room. Sebastian had waived his right to an attorney and asked to speak with investigators again. After a week long investigation and countless hours of interviews with friends, family, and suspects, the moment they had been waiting for had arrived. One of Caitlin's killers was finally

For stars like that'll roost was so calm, I had em. I have my own religion, which is polytheis. There is an exactual name for our religion, nurs especially based on the myths now, but we have a patriarch gods mar religion.

Mine is our eighties, the.

Lord of the underworld.

In case Sebastian's low, muttered voice is hard to make out, he told investigators that he considered himself a sociopath and claimed to worship Hades, the Greek god of the underworld. I have my own religion, he says, matter of factly. To be clear, Amanda and Sebastian weren't dark mystics or vessels of some supernatural evil. They didn't have their own religion, as he says. What they did have was way too much time on their hands and a lack of cognitive skills.

That's it.

That's the end result of too much coddling, too much sheltering, and no actual parenting. Where the fuck is the father? Where are the rules? Where's the goddamn discipline? You're an adult with a child, still living at your mom's house because that's all you can afford. Jesus Christ, where's the fucking shame. As this interview continued, Sebastian revealed another bizarre detail about himself. He claimed to have a second personality of all names Drake, who would sometimes take control of

You're Drake, do you feel I mean, you can you.

Like the Sebastian love back on the.

Third person of you and see Drake talking and doing or times sometimes it's just fun.

I like the eyes it's over, and then sometimes it's just.

Watching, watching what's happening.

After setting the stage with claims of memory loss and blame for his alter ego, started recounting his version of what happened on the night Caitlin Route was murdered.

You rolled in her head.

She was holding her head, So did maybe Amanda hit.

Her with something to knock her down or suppose.

And so this was part of the satanic part that she had kind of off rid of you because she says, with doing a sacrifice, is.

It's not nice ya as expected. Sebastian claimed he couldn't remember much about the murder because Drake had taken over his body. Still, he told investigators that Amanda had struck Caitlin over the head, and once she was unconscious, the two of them cut off her clothes and carried out what he described as a satanic human sacrifice, stabbing her multiple times and slitting her throat. Sebastian emphis that Amanda was the mastermind behind all of this. According to him,

I was.

Just messaging people to see if anyone wanted to hang out, because I never do. My message a girl named Haley, Mouey Girl, another girl named Haley, and a girl.

Named Ali and asked them. I was like, Hi, how are you guys?

So are you the same age as all these girls?

Yeah.

During her next interview, Amanda revealed that on the night of the murder, she had sent Facebook messages to several teenage girls asking if they wanted to hang out with her and her boyfriend Sebastian. The first to respond was Caitlyn Root.

Then Caitlyn talked to me like, oh, you wanna hang out or something? She said yeah, and that'd be cool. I was like, do you smoke, cause I know she hangs.

Around that crowd that does. She hangs out with weed.

Yeah.

I told Sebastian that we were gonna go to park and he's like okay.

And then we left and then we like I asked her where she was at and then she told me, and I was like, well, can you just walk up to like the corner of the street so I.

Didn't have to look for your house.

Amanda and Sebastian drove to Caitlyn's neighborhood. As they got closer, Amanda told Caitlyn to meet them at the nearby street corner. After picking them up, the two drove around for a bit before ending up at Krugg Park, where they walked the wooded trails and paused for a while to smoke some weed.

And then Sebastian sat out next to me and he said they wanted her for a sacrifice. They wanted her specifically, and that she fit the criteria and that they wanted her.

I told him that we were having the boodless her and that she was becoming my friend, and so they didn't want it.

They they didn't want it to be her, and he said that it had to be her because they wanted her.

So we kept walking and then Sebastian like she was leading, so Sebastian pulled me aside and said they'd hited me a stick and said hit her.

You need to hit her, and I told him I didn't want to, and he said hit her now, So I hit her with a steak and then I after I hit.

Her, Sabatini joked off top of her and started choking her.

So she went to the ground.

No, he ran past me, she.

Imagine, ran past me and knocked kick to the ground, started choking her.

She was laying right here and he had a hole of her like that and was choking her. And then she was trying to say, help me, please stop. I can't breathe. And then he said can you help me? And and I just stood there.

He didn't know what to do.

And then he took a strange out of his pocket, what a syringe, and he stabbed her in the neck with it. And I asked him what that lesson?

He said it was supposed to maker going to sleep, so she didn't feel anything.

So then she cut her clothes off and pulled her pants off.

Hold On, I thought that once you'd been to hell, nothing scared you anymore. Why are you crying? Amanda?

What happen?

As you can tell? Amanda's version of events differed quite a bit from Sebastian's. She was just a reluctant bystander and an unwilling participant in a satanic ritual that Sebastian alone wanted to carry out. It was all him, It wasn't her. She was just an innocent little girl female accountability?

Am I right?

And then he had me and knife and said to stab her. And I told him I couldn't do it. I told him that I couldn't do it.

He said that I had to.

I told him that he couldn't, and he said, we have to do it now. So he took it back and and he stabbed her in the ship and I covered my eyes and ears, and I stirred around. When I turn around, she was standing up. I knew he had stabbed her, though, but she was sitting and starting to, you know, and walk away.

And he'd he looked surprised, so I don't think it was supposed to happen.

He'd light knocked her back down and jumped on top of her, like on pumper within the legs, like he was choked drinking.

After a while, he.

Said that she didn't have bolts anymore. He looked at me and he said he was proud of me. He said he was proud of me for being there.

Amanda claimed that after Caitlin was killed, Sebastian smashed her phone and scattered the pieces throughout the park. He then coached Amanda on what to say if they were ever questioned by police.

He doesn't in Cardiff, and he broke into half and put it somewhere. He don't me to look at it, and he'd call me that if we were caught, to tell him the police that we were at the movies.

Amanda also insisted that any evidence linking her to Satanism or human sacrifice was entirely Sebastian's doing. It's always the man who's to blame, isn't it. She claimed he had forced his beliefs onto her and that she had simply gone along without taking any of his beliefs.

Seriously, I thought, you guys found the books as you were talking to me about.

Rituals, and the stuff that was in the books is the stuff that he told me. Yeah, in the black book?

Who wrote it?

I wrote what he told me.

Amanda explained that Sebastian had mentioned performing a human sacrifice more than once, but she never actually believed he would do it. How many times have we heard that shit before? She claimed that when they picked up Caitlin that night, she had no idea what Sebastian intended to do.

There's a part of you.

Thinking and yeah, this is gonna happen, right, he was kidding.

I didn't think he was really gonna do it. That's why I thought when we got to the end that we were just.

Gonna take her home.

I thought he was joking.

I thought it was just all Ay telling him.

I've got somebody that you can sacrifice.

I found her.

I found the one that you can sacrifice.

Because he said that he needed to do it, and I didn't want him to kill a random person.

If he was gonna do it.

Amanda's story was riddled with inconsistencies, and after listening to her for several minutes, investigators started pushing back with pointed questions and rebuttals. It was clear she was still lying and trying to protect herself by shifting all of the blame onto Sebastian.

I mean, when we talked the other day, you talked about how you control him. You're the domineering person in the relationship.

How you keep him locked down because he's pretty he had a lot of shit.

Dow say what he told me.

I don't want him talk to anybody like his Poe isn't on and I read all of his messages because.

He's had jealous Yeah.

I mean you basically, you made it pretty clear that you were the boss in the family.

About some things.

But then now we're at where he's controlling you and one of the other thing is all honestly, and I'm just being straight with you. I mean, you showed no remorse, no emotion what server matter fact, laughed a couple of times when.

We were talking about the situations.

And now there's this complete mood and demean and change in these crocodile tiers stuff.

I mean, I mean, with your demeanor the other day, I.

Have a hard time believing that, all of a sudden, now complete opposite you were.

Just as cold and soulless as you can possibly be.

A man who interviews with investigators painted a picture of two entirely different people. In the first she came off as a cold, arrogant, and detached sociopath, but after two days in a jail cell, she returned as a tearful, self proclaimed victim. You know, female privilege.

So why if this is a story.

We would believe now that he's this evil person and you're just kind of a I guess you're kind of saying you're a victim in this.

Why didn't you tell us all this or not? Why did you act so cold?

Why did you not care?

Why did you laugh?

Why did you tell us to prove it?

Why did you How did you possibly have no with the emotions you're.

Having today, How could you possibly set there as I'm describing this homicide?

It didn't affect me because it wasn't true. I mean, I knew what he was telling me wasn't true.

That's why.

Enough fact, you said you went threw up, you said you had to cover your eyes in your ears so you wouldn't hear her screen and you wouldn't see it. But you had no emotion in the end of the day, not a single tear, not even a sad face.

Because he said, in jail for forty eight hours now, because you realize that you guys aren't going to get away with this, because you realize you've been charged and you're in a little prison.

Is that why?

It's because he told me that no matter what, it would be okay. And obviously, since we're getting.

Charged for something, so if you want to got charge everything, it would have been okay.

Well, I wanted to tell you guys what happened, but I knew it would probably be worse.

Amanda's Facebook messages to Caitlyn erased any chance of plausible deniability. She lured Caitlin to krug Park and specific told her not to reveal who she was meeting, asking her to keep it a secret under the pretense of hiding her marijuana use. Tragically, Caitlyn honored that request when she lied about her plans that night. In return, Amanda repaid her trust by slitting Caitlyn's throat and stabbing her to death, all in the service of some twisted, delusional beliefs in the supernatural.

Everything you're saying now is exactly what he said about you.

You know, he's saying that that that you.

Said, it had to be Caitlin, that had to be an unclean soul, someone was condemned. Said that you've been talking about the sacrifice for some time, that he's kind of squashed it. But when you said it, he's you know, said he.

Went along with it.

He said, he held her down. Why you stabbed her and cut her throat? How many of the wounds were from you on Caitlin. Let's be honest, now, what about the stabbing or cutting and.

Cut her through? He said, you did it all. He held her down by the shoulders.

It's not true.

I believe that you were both equally on board with it.

I believe that you picked her. I believe that you lured her out, just like the text messages show. And I believe that what you need to do is be responsible for your actions.

What makes this case even more chilling is the fact that Caitlyn wasn't Amanda's only target. She was just the first to respond. By her own admission, she reached out to four different teenage girls that night. Any one of them could have ended up as the victim to this brutal, senseless murder. Caitlin Root was just unfortunate and friendly accepted

I'd be curious to know what your feelings are on these other three girls, maybe all four of these girls.

Really, he didn't really care that much for the first person who would have went with you would have been a person, and she's just the one and left.

Following Amanda's confession, which was filled with contradictions and obvious lies, investigators sat down with Sebastian one last time to confront him with what she had said. He denied most of it, falling back on memory lapses and claiming he couldn't recall details. It's funny how amniesia hits after you do something really bad, much like Amanda. This follow up interview revealed a drastically different version of Sebastian. The cold, stoic follower of Hades,

You seem perfectly fine. You didn't seem like you had these you know, kind of like now the shades and having a qualt being called.

It doesn't seem even it seems like more you're acting more than anything right now, and I know that's nerves and you don't want to become off as this this terrible animal or whatnot.

You know, and I don't think you are.

I think you guys got.

Caught up in a.

Kind of romany, a notion that this was something neat or cool, and now that the realism set in, and it's really not so romany, cause it sound so neat. You know, it's of the Twilight Saga. You know, it's real life, and it's affected both you guys and your families and Caitlin and her family. You know, you're kind of looking for an hour in a sense of trying to bury yourself behind this persona I do.

I think you got wrapped up in this ship.

Mentally, physically, emotionally.

And then when it happened, you know, and now they have to face their realism of it. I think the realism has hit home, you know, and.

It's a mess.

Indeed, this situation was a disturbing mess, and it was now up to the justice system to sort it all out. On that note, Amanda had an unusual suggestion for how she thought the system should deal with.

Her you guys are involved in this, Kaitlin's dead, what do you think the for replenishment would be.

I mean, honestly, for me, was there and I didn't tell anybody anything happened, So I mean I should be put in jail for some time. But I do have a baby that's two months old, and that's a vital part of his life because he's gonna be crawling soon.

I don't know.

I mean, I mean, there's house rooms.

A man has suggested that as a mother house arrest would be an appropriate form of punishment. Fortunately, a prosecutor and judge saw things a little differently. I hate to keep beating this drum because Jesus Christ talk about female privilege, but yeah, that's what every baby needs. A psychopathic, maronic, devil worshiping loser of a mom with bad taste in men, abandoning them to go kill innocent young women sure, Amanda. In the end, both Amanda and Sebastian accepted plea deals,

I would leave you with this.

Caylin will never have a baby, her parents will never see her get any older, her friends will never see her, her grandparents, she'll never know.

I've listened to all of them things that people have said.

Yeah, this is me saying that you know, when we care, when we when we compare.

The things that you're gonna miss.

That sucks.

But but you you have a chance in sunlight in the future. Do you have a chance of parole?

You will.

I mean, as young age you are, chances are you'd probably come out of prison a young woman yet and get to remain the rest of your life for the better, I hope.

But Caitlyn will never have that opportunity.

The murder of Caitlin Root wasn't the result of a sudden outburst or tragic misunderstanding. It was a calculated act fueled by delusion, detachment, and a warped sense of purpose. Amanda Bennett and Sebastian Dowell had isolated themselves from the world, living in a bubble of dysfunction and feeding off one

Hey Mike, my name is Nicole.

I have been listening since twenty seventeen.

Tell everybody about the show.

It is my favorite thing.

Your storytelling is unmatched. Dude, listen. Not like you need the advice from me, but screw the shit talkers.

You're incredible.

Keep doing what you're doing.

Love the show, Thank you, it