Episode 166

Welcome to Sort and Scale Rewind with your hosts Matt Fondelier and Ian Bag. Hey, what's going on, everybody? Welcome back to Sort and Scale Rewind. I'm one of the hosts of the show. My name is Matt Fondelier and I'm joined once again by a hilarious comedian and someone who hosts another podcast, Enjoying Orange Slices with Jeff and Ian, which is, believe it or

not, the fourth most popular hockey podcast in Australia. Bag, Hello, everybody, I'm not from Australia. Just because everybody hears that introduction like he must be from Australia. I'm not. It's just popular in Australia for no unknown reason. Yeah. So, well, I think that whole country is still in lockdown. So they are really hang hockey right now. There's not

much else to do. They're not locked own. They're just having a they don't want to go inside of You've seen the side of spiders there and they're just like, oh my god, stay inside people. I remember being fascinated by Australia as a young kid and then reading in a travel book that's something like nine of the ten most dangerous animals in the world all live in Australia. That's so true. Maybe it's not gonna happen. My mom is from

Australia, so we used to go back and forth. So that's a long flight on and I'm not giving away how old I am fifty, but back then the flights were even longer because you stopped three times you stopped. And so we started in Terrace where I grew up. Then we started and then we went to Vancouver and we on a plane and that went to Hawaii and then I think we stopped in Fiji or some like other island on the way and it was horrible long as a kid because there was only one movie wall

just on the one screen. Yes, yeah, I was thinking about that. Kids they just don't understand. They don't understand. And also the headphones you had to wear, the little foam a little so painful, I know, and it was just like it was just hollow. It was just like somebody yelling into a two that also was exactly you could never hear it. Yeah, I was thinking the other day, I was walking by through a restaurant and I saw somebody eating by themselves in a restaurant, which used to

be kind of a strange, almost sad site. But now the guy's sitting there with an iPad and he's watching a movie, right, and he's like he's by himself, but he's just chowing out watching a movie, like he's at home. And I thought, you know, the stigma of ye out alone, like he should be shamed for this, like they'll get some friends, should be shamed. But he's loving it. He's living his life, you know, table for loser, for losing, but not now a table

for a movie reviewer. That's right, Maybe that's what he does. Maybe it was a restaurant and movie reviewer at the same time. Wow, really killing two birds so good? So much money involved in that? Well, hey, listener, Hey too much fun? Too much fun? Yeah, we're not a lot of fun on the show. Now. All we do is have fun on the show. We talk about murder, but we try to make it fun and funny for you. This is episode one hundred and sixty six, Oh my God, which is as close to the Devil's number

as we're going to get at least for twenty more years. And know the way he pumps these out, Yeah, I could get there pretty soon. We would like happen really quick. Yeah, just social media was okay whatever. By the way, Happy holidays, Merry Christmas was coming on Christmas time. Oh yeah, this might even be your Christmas present. Imagine getting up on Christmas morning and running to listen to this. Yeah, unwrapping your iPhone,

which you are you wrapped specifically for this purpose, new headset. Yeah, come welcome everyone, Christmas time, Christmas time is is here one sixty six. Whatever holidays you celebrate. We're hope you're safe and happy out there. And yes, nothing says Christmas like talking about murder. Right. I hope you've married somebody nice that hasn't gone off and murdered somebody at work. Right. This episode is a complete train wreck of an episode, not in

the way that it's made, but just in the story itself. The story is just it's it's it's kind of come on a lot. It's kind of funny. It's kind of because, first of all, the wife has become a cop and nothing reads cop about her. Yeah, it's just like missing all the signs at home. Yeah. It does seem like a something that would be like in a TV movie or something where like you're an officer and you don't know that your own significant other is secretly a killer. Yeah,

the jail at home or something like that. Yeah on Hallmark. Now off, Mike, you were saying that your experience listening to this episode was like a weird deja vu because you thought you are he knew the whole story. Well that that that part with the wife, I knew, So I knew. I know, I've heard something like that before, So I don't know if we've already talked about something that was kind of like that, but I remember the description. But what I so, I thought I was listening to

the wrong episode, so I started it twice. But then I remember the first part was Mike talked about his dog that he had forever. Yeah, which so I'm like, I never knew that Mike had had a dog. He's known as a cat guy to me, a duck guy to me. Very true, but I didn't know he had a dog. So when he heard I had a dog, and then of a sudden, I was like, oh my god, a dog. Well I didn't know that, so I couldn't know the story because he was yeah, so this must be new.

So I was back to it, and then I started and then I started feeling because I couldn't feel all the pain and Mike about the dog, Yeah, I could feel everything about it. So fuck you Mike for having such a great voice and be able to describe that, because I could feel the pain. When our dog Roxy died. Who Roxy? Uh? My

wife found her in a ditch when she was eighteen years old. My wife, not the dog, and the dog went to Hawaii with her, went to college with her and was with her, and then I came into her life ten years into into Roxy, and when she died, she died in my arms. But I had to get on a plane the next morning and go do shows and leave my wife and my mother in law flew in and took over. But I could feel, I knew all that pain right there.

I was just like, oh, fuck you, Mike. We had to put our one of our cats down last year right around this time, which was fucking devastated, devastated, And we have a dog that is kind of a not the exact story that you've just told, but situation is the same in that it's a dog that my wife had before I was in her

life, and I'd never had a dog before I was. I only had cats growing up, So this dog is my first dog, and he's definitely getting older, he's definitely got some health issues, and we're I'm just like, it's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be Oh it's not, it's it's gonna be fine. You're gonna be so crushed. I'm sure I remember. I mean, hopefully it's still many years away. But who well, yeah, me too, but still at some point.

I remember when Roxy died, like two weeks later. I was just walking down the street and one of the neighbors said, whereas rocksy and I just started crying. I was just like, yeah, yeah, why do you dogs have to die? Fucking murdering assholes get to like live in prison forever. It's so bizarre, right, so bizarre. It's not fair, Yeah, should it should be just as easy to put one of those people down.

He's a dog. I had a friend and I had to stop being friends with him because he worked at a pound and he loved putting dogs down. What. Yeah, Okay, I'm glad you're not friends with There's no way they actually liked that. They he was just like, oh, it's Thursday. I get to kill all the dogs. I'd like, dude, he lived in Denver. I was like, I can't be friends with you anymore. Don't you want to live in that same state? Yeah? Is his ex wife managed the club and Denver. That's how I knew him.

I was like, I think he probably should break She probably didn't know he was a murderer, just like this lady in the Yeah, way to bring it back around. I like that. I'm good by the way. I never met Mike's dog, but I agree with that. I'm glad that he like helped connect Mike to like the girl that he's still with. Like, Yeah, dogs are amazing. Dogs are great. And though he the way he did it, I don't care. I don't care how you feel about Mike. I just kissed into the air for Ian. Did not just kiss

me kiss the air? I didn't. I guess I just give you a kiss on the forehead. Um. But the way he did it, just rescuing a dog and having it come into his life and be part of it, and you're just giving it a better life. Yeah, be more like that, people, Yeah, see more like that than Johnny fucking dipshit. I'm gonna work at the college as a security garden, and okay, I'm gonna stop you right, I'm gonna stop me right here and everybody else right

here. I don't feel like this is that guy's only crime. Oh yeah, I wrote down, probably through my notes, like there's no way this is the first time way, so I looked in it. I'm like the fact that they didn't investigate more blew my mind. But I'm guessing there was just nothing had happened like that. I guess the only time he got caught. You know, we hear stories about like abuse of power all the time. I'm assuming if he had tried that shit on a college campus earlier,

you know, minus the whole killing part. But if he had like approached some student and then put them in the backseat of the car without any cause or circumstance, I assume that person would raise a fuss about it. Doesn't seem like the kind of environment where he would just keep getting away with it. But in other contexts, who the hell knows. Man, Well, if he's looking for those kind of people at that time of night, they're not necessarily going to be a college student, right, So maybe he has

done but it hasn't been a college student. That's why it hasn't come back on them. Well, the fact we're shocked and surprised I had a good opinion. Excuse me, sorry about that. You know how you're choking on a coffee because it didn't have any flavor of gingerbread in seasonal. It's so appropriate. We were talking before the mice heated up about gingerbread flavored Mountain dew Is discovered. I seen it. I didn't discover, I just seen it. I just seen it on TV. I was like, are you sir?

No, no, thank you. They're doing all the like holiday flavors. I'll take apple cider. I'll just take apple cider. Is that you go to? Well, I'm just saying it. Yeah, sure I went not Actually, yes, it is my go too. Now do you like pumpkin flavored anything? Yeah? Oh yeah, I'm a big proponent of the pumpkin flavor. I feel like it gets way too much flack really, so I'm surprised you're mad about the gingerbread. Well, here's the thing. I

don't want it in my like spiked seltzer. I don't want right in yeah, yeah, my soda. Like I'll take a cherry coke. But I don't need I don't need fucking pumper nickel. You know, coke? No, thanks, no good, I don't need to turn up coke. Yeah, enough of the flavors here. Yeah, they do get to look crazy. We peeked at Cherry Vanilla. It's never gonna get better. Cherry Vanilla is good. Yeah, Cherry Vanilla is fine, and then Cherry's fine.

But then you put them together. You're like to quote you earlier, why saying that he's saying there's a putty in my mouth and everyone's coming. How do we get back track again and going in for a good conversation. Ah, but seriously, we're talking about this college campus, right, Dick, and the fact that this can't possibly be his first time. I remember what I was gonna say now. In the story, he talks about approaching the

victim and he asks her if she's a prostitute. I think he uses a much different more than that, but asks her a if she's a prostitute, and be if he can pay her for sex. The very act of asking those questions seems to me like something rehearsed and practiced before. I don't think it's the first time he's asked it wasn't his first place sex worker if he could pay them to have sex with him. Well, also, if you go back to it, she kind of felt like he was cheating the wife.

Yeah, so you knew things like that were going on. And it doesn't sound like he had the gift of the gab. Whenever you got this guy talk, it wasn't you know. Now, we weren't convinced by his story and he did not have it going on very well. Yeah was, And I might be skipping too far ahead, and you can yell at me and tell me I've gone too far ahead. Sure, But when they described the car that he had that for the college, I was just a security

car because he had two cars. Yeah, I was like, what the you're supposed to be just showing up and being the buffer until the cops show up and all the things that they had. I was just like, what are they preparing for what's going on at your college that your security guards need a bulletproof vest? Yeah, that was what I was wondering too. Some frat party must have gotten really out of control one time. How about the bumper, like they had the push bumper on the front, Like, yeah,

are you hitting kangaroos in the ditch? Like what's going? Like that doesn't make sense? Yeah, like all those things I had on that car,

I was just like, what the So. I have a few friends that were very interested in community service and one of them is a police officer now in San Diego, and the other one he's actually an attorney now, but for a long time, he was like a parole officer, and he had him he was in the like the Coachella Valley area, Yeah, sort of very eastern Desert Ea, California, getting closer to the Arizona border.

And this guy, my friend had to drive around this town in like a cruiser and dealt with a lot of criminals because he was like a parole officer. But overall, he was trying to do the thing. And I think a lot of people get involved in these community service jobs not to do the right thing, but because it allows you to be in a position of power. And this guy, Edwin Laura, seemed very content with the fact that he could look and pretend to be a regular police office. Well that's the

thing that I thought. I thought, and there's a lot of people like this, Like you say, he didn't have the goods to be a cop. Yeah, so you're the charm. We had to man the gift of the game. Yeah, but it's just there's no way he's going to become a cop. So this was the easy route to have those kind of powers.

But I felt like they had given them too much power. Oh. Absolutely, it was very, very easily exploited, Like they do weird psychological tests all the time with people who are experimenting with what happens when like the people are in power over other people and it really just becomes this thing that you can't help but embrace in one right, Do you feel like a security guard on a college campus should have more power than a security guard at a

target. Hm. I I feel like I put them on the same level. I'd be supposed to. No, I think you should. I think that person's supposed to be the buffer and tell the actual authorities get there. Yeah. And I felt like too many times we make those college or campus are not even the campus security guards the actual police. Yeah, I feel like I'm okay with giving them a taser. I would give them. I'd be willing to give these guys a taser because you feel like they're going to

chaste themselves mostly probably because they'll do that. But that's about as far as I'm willing to go. Because if somebody needs to be like temporarily incapacitated or something, I feel like one of those little stun gun things you know, you know, even if you hit the rod, I feel a big flashlight something you can hit somebody with. Yeah, and that to me, it'd be more dangerous. You could total clock somebody's fucking head open with a taser

can and take somebody down, like not tell them. Sometimes they can flip their heart if they got a bad heart. Yeah, I feel like you can smoke a college get in the head and he won't won't hurt him as much as that. This is ripe for testing. Ian. Look, let's get some volunteers. If you're listening to this, let's put us together. Yeah, let's do a poll. Would you rather have me hit you with a taser stun gun or have Ian clock you in the face flashlight? I

like your to respond. Let us know. You could follow him in a Twitter and Matt Bondalier and it's not you would you rather have your kid taste? But ye are going to college? Yeah? Yeah, here's the scenario your kid has just been granted a fluoride scholarship at UCLA. Problem is, at a certain point one of the following might happen, taste or bunked on the head. Yeah. Oh, remember remember back in the day when when head injuries were just laughed at and you're called cold and pussy in and get

back up. That's rights. When I was a kid, I played some team sports. Was terrible at all of them, but the most humiliating of all was playing baseball because my mom had heard stories of kids getting hit in the head with a baseball, and so I was the kid who had to wear the helmet with the big pretentive screen like over my face, basically like a catcher's mitt, even though it was a batty helmet, which, let me just tell you, it's hard enough to hit the ball when you don't

know what you're doing, but I can't fucking see the ball. It's also a huge problem when you're not strong enough to keep that whole monthstros study up. Yeah, yeah, I can. I can say that we're kind of along the same lines. Yeah. When I first started playing hockey, my mom made sure I had a full visor. Okay, I didn't have shin pads. I'm just like, all right, mom, Yeah, to make a decision. Everybody I think ourselves are not They're definitely gonna bounce them on

my knees. Yeah, well their mom's okay, that's their job about our safety. We're not drinking wine there in charge. Yeah, that's right. I meant to ask you, did you go to college. You have in like college campus experiences? No, So I I went to go to college and stand up started and I didn't show up. That was that was my thing I was going to I wanted to be an explosives engineer. That's what

I was going to college for. And stand up. I tried stand up before I went to college, and I'm like, nope, I'm not standing it because this is back in the day when you had to stand in line to pick your courses. So and most people got there much earlier than I didn't got all the good ones. So uh yeah, I just I was just like, nah, I'm not gonna do it. It's not gonna what's

there, what's there that's gonna help me? And stand up? And little did I think that marketing would have been a great thing to take sure nobody told me, Well, listen, I went to college and I didn't take any business classes, so I also feel like marketing would have been a really good thing to take, but you know, just wasn't interest. God. Yeah, I'm an idiot, so were you. It's true. Part of maybe think about it, though, was a little later in the story when

they're talking about how this guy edwin after he kidnapped. Didn't bonk this girl on the head, as you so lightly put it, except with the rock. He like took her to this other part of campus because he was the campus security guard. He knew all the like knooks and crannies of the campus. And it just reminded me of when I was a kid freshman in college, got my first like college girlfriend, and just wandering the campus, like

finding little makeout spots and trying to avoid the campus security guards. And just when you go into big college campus, there's all kinds of places where things can be done well. The University of British Columbia borders along a nude beach, really wrecked beaches right beside. Oh my god, so that's where your studies were. That's why I didn't show up a college. I was next

star Son of my balls. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny that there's all those those kind of nooks and crannies on because I've done a lot of colleges and stand up and you can get lost. You're just trying to go to they give you a map and suddenly you're just in the woods for no apparent Yeah, it's wild. I mean, I really missed those college campus days, but I remember just going on tours of college campuses and just it is like going to a city in some cases, that's just wild. I want

to circle back to circle back. Let's circle back. Let's go back to kind of the way this episode opens, which is with Edwin's wife. It's kind of from her perspective. We talked about her a little bit at the beginning, that she was a police officer in training, and this idea that she went to bed and her husband came home at some point in the night and she doesn't really know what time, but in the morning he's being a little bit shifty and acting a little bit weird. But they are definitely going

to go to church together. To go to church, gotta go to Pizza Hut for dinner the night before. I forgot about that detail. I was going to bring it up, how much how great is Pizza Hut? You know, it's reminds me of my childhood, totally reminds me. So it was my birthday a couple of weeks ago, and my wife said what he wanted to do, and I said, I want to go to pizza really, because I reminded me, try to find a pizza that you can dine

in. They still have their red plastic cups. They don't have any dining rooms anymore, and not like the closest one we could find was Baker's Field that had a planeup. We're like, going there, not going to Baker's. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. Um. So these this couple, though, they go to Pizza Hut and he leaves the windows down on his car and then something he's never done before. But he says it's because the hot day. We know now that's because he had at some point there was

a body in that car. I didn't clue into that. I didn't clue into the fact that he had put the body into that car. I always thought it was in the police not the police see see I even say a police vehicle because it's described Yeah, just the white yes, as the college security vehicle. I didn't think that it had ever gone into the police field, I mean to his vehicle. So that was one of the crazy parts of this story, was that he kept moving the body, right, he

but I always thought it was with the college. Well guess what, let me blow your mind. Get ready, it wasn't. It was with his light blue Nissan Ultima. He left his job after he killed her, he like dumped her body, and then there was a whole thing where he was going to have to clock out of his shift, and he was really nervous to talk to like his boss or something, right, covered in blood.

And then after he's left, he goes into his personal car, and then from the personal car, he goes back and picks up the body, takes it to a second location, at some point changes his mind again and takes the body to a third location. So that body has been in that personal car in two different occasions. But it was so it was like right after they went to church the next day and the windows were open. That's why

that's why I didn't click into that. Yeah, well, I don't think the body was in the car, but I'm sure he was cued into some kind of lingering smell, you know that she was like, Oh this pizza, that's weird. This pizza, it's weird. Resod buddy, Yeah, was he was. He was obsessed with that girl too, right, the girl that he killed, Like that's I kind of got that feeling. That's

why he was moving her to see her a couple more times. Oh interesting, like not obsessed with her before, but obsessed with her like once it happened. Yeah. Yeah, because they said he was having sex with a dead body. Yeah, so gross, right, so creepy that again, I meant the word I used earlier was just train wreck. This story just starts out as this little fraction of information that he's like a campus security guard

and he may have hit somebody with his car. And then you find out that he like smashed her head with a rock and that he can find her behind the car, and that he raped her. And then he, as we'll get into, he just goes on this murder spree with you know, with hostages, and it's just like every minute of this story it just gets worse and worse. It just so so he says it that he hit her with the wife catches on why because he wasn't he was acting weird right right?

Yeah? So why I usually order pepperoni pizza, but this time you order pepperoni pizza, your vegetarian. Why would you get that? You know it's Jesus Day? Why would you do that? Um? So they come back and she thinks that he's gonna leave her. Yeah, she just thinks that he's being a little quiet and maybe he's like having an affair or something, like he's clearly working something out in his own mind. Yeah, and then he finally comes clean kind of and tells this person that I smack somebody

with my car. Therefore I hit their body. Yeah, and their bloody clothing is in our shed. If you don't believe it was so bizarre like that that whole movie. Why and she's supposedly a cop. Yeah, like none of those actions makes sense. Well, you know what you do when you hit somebody with your car, You take him to the fun in hospital. That's what you do to them. A nine one one call will suffice something, just something in the beginning. Acknowledge that this happened. Let that

be a lesson kids. If he hit somebody with your card, don't kill them afterwards. Yeah, seriously. Well, I don't think he ever hit her with a car, and no point. That was a story. Yeah, that was the story. And then he takes his wife's gun and says, I gotta go her steps in the shed. If you don't believe me,

I'm out piece and then he just goes on the run. And then she only in this moment when she's opened up the shed door and sees the bloody purse or whatever, does she suddenly realize that this is all this is actually happening. Okay, so can I. I didn't really get the timeline because they're so they're looking at the boyfriend has called the cops by this time, and they're already looking for this girl that has kind of vanished, right, Yes, Is this not Sunday? Is this Monday when he takes off.

I'm not exactly sure when he takes off, but I know that the man hunt definitely intensified on Monday. There was a whole thing about how they were trying to be cool about it about her disappearing, but they knew she loved her job and they just assumed she's got to come to that shift on Monday morning. And then when she didn't show up to that shift. That's

when everybody like started to really flip out. And that's when and that's when the wife goes into the into the cops, right right, Because the idea is that the wife and her killer husband are the only two people who know

that this girl isn't missing, it's that she's actually dead. And so I think Edwin takes off, she starts to the wife starts to see all these reports and the whole community's trying to find this woman, which I must have happened around Monday, because that would have been when all of the real reporting starts happening. And then that's when the connections made and they also make they also that around that same time, they go from missing persons to homicide,

right yeah, I mean finding the bloody purse probably not great. Yeah, not looking good. Then I can only imagine if there's DNA evidence or something in the back seat of that car. I mean, all that stuff is

is going to be examined pretty closely. Yeah, it's you know, she's basically the wife knows at that point and has told him that she's killed her, right yeah, so they know, Well, there's the whole interrogation scene, which I always love these types of scenes where it's the killer just trying to weasel their way out of whatever the fuck they actually did, and then

police officers trying to pry the information out of him. And this one is it's just an all timer because the cops that are interrogating him are really trying to get down on the level with him, and they're trying to talk to him with some street language lots man's and dudes and dude, man, come on, dude, man, this man, come on, man, like, there's a lot of that. Man. You gotta help us, man, don't you want to smoke the weed with us? Yeah, that's exactly

what it sounds like. I definitely want to play some clips because I got some good ones here, But this first one I think is very telling. This to me distills the entire argument down, which is when Edmund approached Edwin, Edwin, sorry, Edmund, Well that's who you have to fill out the forms for your taxes. Yeah, that's Edmund. That's true. Right. When Edwin approaches Kaylee the victim, was he there to hurt her or was he there to help her? Because he was a campus security officer.

So that's what the detectives are talking to him about in this clip. I think she honestly thought that I was going to do something. You were man right now, you were you as was here. Yes, we let me back up, Let me back up right, Yeah, let's circle back. You saw that girl and you picked her up. Were your intentions to help her because you're a security guard on the campus and people look up to you. Was your intent to find some way to help her or was your intent

to find a way of either by paying for sex or taking sex? And when things went soil, you knew you had to kill her because now the person she looks to for safety and security wants something from ear she doesn't want to give it. Just the image of this campus safety officer being at the center of this crime, and that, to me is what's one of the more memorable parts about this episode. Was that this figure who you think is supposed to be Legs makes it scary, right, Yeah, Is that your

safe house is not not? Yeah? How about the fact that he's just asking if you're a hooker? Like there's just hookers walking around the campus, right, I Mean that's what I was saying earlier too. Like the fact that that question would even cross his mind. It just shows you that this is like something that he does. He must go into the city and ask for for sex workers. This girls must this is girls way off for beating

tracks. Yeah, and like this girl is And we should actually talk a little bit about how Kaylee kind of ended up in this wrong place, wrong time, because that's a pretty interesting part of the story too. It is interesting, but it's just it's that's life, like just just one situation leads to another, and sometimes it leads into a great thing, and sometimes you're just like, what the fuck did I get myself into? Yeah, and

this poor girls just made a decision that's innocent. Yeah, like her and a boyfriend or fighting, I'm gonna cool down, yeah while walk Yeah, I think we've all been there before. Everybody, like a million of us have done it. And she's the only one that's you know, I'm sure she might not be the only one that's had that happened. Yeah metaphorically though, I'm saying, yeah, it's crazy. There were so many people in

this story that are just there at the wrong time. Like a little bit later when he's basically switching cars and there's just like some old man at a hotel, like checking into his hotel room and he gets like shot in the stomach and gets his car's jacked, like wrong place, wrong time. It was a funny story about the old man though. He was moving furniture into the motel eight. He's just like, what, I'm like, I need

specific things in my motel a room, Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But going back to just the this initial crime, it's just it's so disgusting to me how he knocks her out, rapes her while she's still kind of alive it sounded like, and then drags her out into the woods to like finish her off, and then I'm assuming finishing himself off. And do you think do you think he killed her or do you think he left her there kind of half alive? Do you think as a toy because she was his toy?

Absolutely? Yeah. I mean I would assume once you've bashed somebody's face into so that it's unrecognizable, that I didn't even think of that, Like at that point, I think he just he was done with her. I don't think it even really occurred to her if she was like dead dead or mostly dead. I forgot when they described that it was just I didn't like until you said that. Until you said that just now, I didn't get the part where she was unrecognizable. I just thought, Oh, she's just

been there a while, so she's unrecognized. Yeah, but he's bashed her face in, that's right, and they can only id her by the like tattoo on her wrist, which god damn, it's just so fucked up. I hope this guy gets his head bashed in. Yeah, well he's got he's got a long time ahead of himself and that uh, yeah, he's gonna be there for a while place. But also, did you find it weird that he shot the old man? I mean weird only in that this

entire thing is fucked right, there's nothing that makes sense. It's funny you said it before I consider them characters, and I was just like, oh, it's a story. The story doesn't make sense like that. That was how I just went there, right, Yeah, who's writing this? Yeah, who's right? It doesn't Mike, Yeah, it was just I found it. So I'm like, well, he walks away so many times. He's not getting anything out of this guy, like he everybody that he's hurt

so far is about sex. Yeah, you know, I think in every instance, most of them, most of the time it was about having sex. But it's about getting the thing that you want. And if somebody is going to stop you from getting what you want, you're going to remove that that opposition. So even though he didn't want sex from this guy, he wanted a car from that guy. And if there was even one percent of a struggle or did not give him what he wanted immediately, then he was

just going to eliminate it. And we mentioned earlier the bulletproof vest. Again, he doesn't need that for most of this ordeal, but having that on makes you feel invincible. I didn't Yeah, they didn't let you know he was wearing it until like yeah, which I mean, I don't even know if he actually was. I guess that they said that that was like part of the gear that you yet for being a kid. Therefore, he may have had it on him, but they didn't say it for sure that he

had it on. Shall we go to the Shall we go to when he gets his first car? Yeah, let's do it. This is now the story is now shifted to a different city, Salem, Organ And there's a girl. Her name is Andrea. Andrea who's just getting off work. And this was another just terrifying image, Thanks Mike, never be able to sleep again, of her just in her car after work, you know, in this locked car, playing with her, a little catching up on all our

emails, playing farting, is probably doing a little farting. Yeah, that's why the windows cracked open. All right, we all know why she's had a long, long day at working unstown for her to release something again, we have all, yeah, all done this. Who hasn't, Who hasn't. And then the just instantaneous nature of crime, you know, like you just don't think it's going to happen, and then next thing you know, she's got a gun on her face, this dude's in the car, and

off they go. Yeah, well was it about this part of the story that sit out to you? Well, the fact that she was he knew, he knew that he wanted a girl. You that that's why he took that car. Yeah, he knew he wanted a hot girl, and apparently she was hot. Right. I didn't look into it, but well I didn't And I say, I say, he wanted a hot girl, but

apparently she was hot to him? Sure, right, So I don't know what she looked like, because as we go along, he tries to have sex with her, and she comes up with the greatest plan ever, incredible plan. They're just like, I need to take my medication because I've got her pies. Yeah, and my alarm goes off and I was just like, oh man, because I almost threw up when they talked about him nibbling on her ear right now, I was just like, oh my god,

so disturbed. I was like I almost gone well, even just the lead up to it, it made me sick to my stomach. This whole idea that he like made her pretend to be the girlfriend and you know, don't make eye contact with the hotel clerk because I'll kill him and kill you and I don't care, and makes her like hold hands with her, and she's talking to the clerk and trying to communicate to him with these little like micro expressions, but there's no way this clerk has any idea what's going on.

And then when they get into the room, this part just fucking gross me out so much, which was the handcuffing to the bathroom door, the blindfolding, and then making her take sleeping pills right and then, as you were saying earlier, the nibbling of the ear lobe, but just made my stomach churn to just think of her fighting to stay awake while all this is happening. I thought, you know a lot of that one part. Let's circle back when he checks in. Do you think what year was? Just like,

I can't remember what year this was. This was twenty sixteen to twenty sixteen, So do you think much has changed in the hotel motete hotel motel industry, so they would be on the lookout for a guy his age with a girl that age just in general, just in general, I mean I probably not. I feel like those you know, those motel business you know, those CD motels, they got a going right with you know, rented by the hour. You don't think people are asking questions? I guess so,

But it just seems like so easy for human trafficking. Yeah, like those motels are going to be the ones that their people are going to go to, of course, And I think that human trafficking is a legit problem, and probably for these same reasons. I think this stuff is definitely happening all the time, right and this so that's why I was wondering if they you know, I don't know I would. I don't know how you put

a stop to that. But it was something that when I heard the story, I was just like, Yeah, they shouldn't have They should have known something, should have been known by the desk clerk, that this girl was uncomfortable. Yeah that this this, this may have been a problem. But how do you how do you call in everything? Oh, there's an uncomfortable girl, can you check on it? Right? You know? I don't know how Where where the line is? Sure? You know? I think

all of these That's what I'm saying. This the whole industry of giving somebody a room for the night. I just feel like you are dealing with shady people all the time. It's just part of the business. And I don't know how. I don't think you really can regulate it. People expect to have a little bit of privacy when they're like on a vacation. That's what I'm saying, Like, where's the line right? Where where is the line? You don't want to You don't want to just because you're with your daughter.

You don't want to be called checked in and you're checking into hotel being right? You know, all the cops are showing up to make sure. Yeah, exactly right, totally, and this girl just had the longest night ever. And then this idea that they just kept driving and driving and driving, and she just never knew when they were gonna stop. And then again, like you would see in a movie when like a police officer shows up

three quarters of the way through the movie, he's gonna save her. Nope, the killer's standing right there and kills the police officer, and now all hope is lost. This is like exactly what happens in this story with this old man. And now like her car's leaking oil for some rea and they didn't explain, but she's got to be thinking, we're done now, right,

He's got to let me go now. And then he kidnaps a grandma and two kids who talk their way out of being kidnapped, and she's so bizarre that that they because they don't really say that the ground it's I was upset about this part of the story because it just stopped. I needed to know more about what happened to grandma and the two boys once they're just dumped.

Yeah, they're just like abandoned by the side of the room. Yeah, because now people they're still really not looking for him, right, Yeah, like they're treating it kind of. I'm guessing on that side, like Grandma and Grandpa's car has just been stolen by somebody, but he's told the kids, I've murdered two people. Yeah, so you think it would just be all points bolting everybody, just like Chopper, let's go, let's go

looking for him. I don't really do that, they don't. I mean, I think everything was just happening so quickly, Like I don't really know how much time has passed from when these people are being left on the side of the road to when the cops have started to really start this giant chase that kind of ends this episode. Um, I did want to play before we get too far away from it. We play a lot of nine one

one operator conversations on this show. But there's this moment where these two very nice ladies are talking to one another about the man who's just been shot at the motel, and it reminded me. I can't remember the name of the sketch, but Saturday Night Live with like Molly Shannon and Anna Gastar are like they're good times, good times. You know, I'm talking about it. They're like the public radio. So these sweaty chocolatells, Yes, exactly,

the sweaty balls. Yeah. So this is a clip of two nine one one operators who sound like NPR. It's great, Noman, What sure, it's Karen at HPI. Hey, I just transferred a call to Medical Sprete Motel. The manager there said, there's a gentleman who says, you got shot in the stomach. He's laying down and we're one zero eight, one zero eight, all right, karenl okay for the guys. He saying, Okay, I'm gonna go go talk to the guys. Okay, it's more

of a Minnesota call than what that is. I want always show this terrible one zero eight. I felt like she was fake writing it down right, Yeah, and I understand these ladies are just doing their job, but you can't have a theory. I have a theory of there. Those two are hooking up, but they had to play it off like they aren't hooking up,

so they had to protect make it all that. Oh hey, hi, but no, yeah, um, I forgot, by the way, I forgot to play this clip earlier, which is during the interrogation scene scene again with this with this language. But you guys know what I'm saying. During the interrogation when the two cops like, come on, man, come on, tell us the truth, man Edwin says one of my favorite things, which is something along the lines. Up, look what you guys are

saying, it makes perfect sense. But and then blah blah blah. Generally, if they are what they're saying makes perfect sense, you're busted. Yeah, you're busted. All right, here we go. We're missing something here. Look man, yeah, I know what you guys are thinking, and it makes perfect sense. It does because why would you ask for her person? What was in your head that made you want her purse? Sorry? Just like that part is like what you guys are saying. I was looking

for condoms. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. She was a sex worker. I wanted to get condoms. That don't say that I said she was a sex worker. He thought that she was a sex worker. It was it was that whole he's how does he get hired? Like who the who hires that guy? Like he reeks of grease, Like it's just so greasy, just like yeah, well going back now, man, come on, man, dude, bro, come on, hey, don't you have to

talk me? Yeah, seriously, the hostage that Edwin takes. There's another moment that we have to talk about here, which is he we have to, we have to, we must, we must. We still have like

twenty minutes left, so we definitely have to talk about this. The Headwin makes this hostage tape, a video of him like doing this weird kind of half apology, and then asks her to post it with the caption that says murderer on the loose, and the very strange moment happens the closest the victim blaming I've ever heard, not coming from my own mouth on this show, which is Mike talking about how when she posted this video she was too embarrassed

and so rather than marking it as a public video, she made it a private video so that only she could see it. And had she made it public, maybe this rampage would have been stopped. Quicker I was wondering where they got the embarrassed from, if that was her words, or if that had been floated into her head, or if she had made a mistake by making it private, thinking she was doing the right thing by making a private because that's made more sense to me than saying, oh, it's embarrassed.

I didn't want anybody to know. Yeah, like I say when I say like, but sometimes your your thought process can be wrong. You can go, oh, this can save me rather than this, and you probably weren't on the wrong fork. Yeah, that's that's what it seemed like to me. I am not saying that I would have made any different because I'm sure

that I would have. I could see some embarrassment. I don't know it's you shouldn't be embarrassed, but I could definitely feel if I was in that situation, being like, I don't want to give this killer a platform to say what he wants to say, and I'm in this horrible predicament, but

you know nobody, I don't know. It's not like I don't want anyone else to hear it, but I guess there is just like a shame to having been in this position, Like I wasn't strong enough to fight off this person, and now I'm now in this killer's grasps because she thinks he's a douche. Um. I would not have been able to make it private because I hadn't no idea that was even an option. Yeah, exactly, so, I mean he didn't know either. You know, lebody know that's what's

Facebook's for. Who makes a private video on Facebook? I'm the only one that can see this is that is so weird though, that yeah, that is an option. Oh yeah, you know, people don't think the Facebook is any privacy options. But there's some stuff you really wanted to dig into it. Yeah, you can post a look at this, it's my ball's going for a walk on a table private. I don't know if you know this end, but you can make your whole profile private so that only people

that you want to see you can see your profile. I had no idea. Yeah, I'll teach you about it after the show's over. People don't get to learn about it. Str listeners are aware of these things. That's funny you just said to me, well dumb dumb. Yeah, like I'm not making a sorry people, sorry people that I'm so dumb dumb dun All right, So we're moving on now to the climactic chase, that orgasmic chase

that ends this episode. Edwin now his calling nine one one kind of to turn himself in, but not quite because he's not ready to pull the car over just yet, but he really wants to make sure that nobody kills him right now, and also he wants to make he wants to do a monologue. Yes, a lot of monologue. God, I got plenty more clips

of some of the ridiculous things that this guy said. Is it begins though one of those guys it says and another thing, or that's no, he says, let me just say this, but then he just keeps saying more things. Right. Yeah. I have a my dad's friend, like a family friend, as a like a verbal tick like that, and he always goes, I'll tell you one thing, yeah, and then he'll proceed to say like seven hundred other things. My favorite is, can I ask you

a question? Well we already have, Yeah, you can't, and you just used it up. Yeah, you're done. Next, I was wondering, we'll play I'll play some clips that where you can kind of hear the

nine one one operator who's taking this call. And it's addressed a little bit in this episode where people were saying that she was being like kind of nice to him, and there was sort of not that she was doing any part of her job wrong, and you could definitely argue that she was trying to be nice to this guy to try to get him to pull the car over. I thought I thought she was. I thought when I was brought up, she was kind of being nice where other people are mean too. But

you know, she knows who she's talking to. Yeah, she knows she's got a murderer who's got a kidnap victim. So why would you get up? Hum? Are you sure your entire pressure is at thirty two PSI? Well, this is leaning in very nice. The other two were very nice. The other two were very nice too. Here's my question quite out. Do you think that she was kind of excited who the nine one one operator to get the call? Like everybody knows this? She was really good.

I just thought she was really good. Thought she's really good. I thought she was good too. But I sensed before anyone even said anything in the episode, just as a listener, the way that he was like, yeah, you know, I'm the guy everybody's looking for. I got a victim, and she's like you do. Like I really sort of got the feeling that she was like my day just got better, you know, Like I don't know, I thought she was more like, no, we haven't heard

anything about this. That's what it seemed like to me, because he kept bragging. But hey, it's me, I'm the guy, and she's like, mom, you what, Yeah, I've heard baby. Yeah, he was like raggy braggy bragging, and she's all like, sorry, I do other things when I get off work. Yeah. See, I think I heard it differently than you. I definitely heard her a bit like, oh, did did you well tell me worried about that? Oh my goodness. Yeah, hold on, let me clear my voice because this is gonna be

on some episodes. Yeah, all right, Well, this guy's first thing to this nine one one operator is make sure the police officers are nice to me because I have asthma. Oh this is my favorite. This is my favorite part of the whole show. Like this is we've been waiting to get to this. He took the gun, but not as inhaler. Yeah. If only he mistook the gun for his inhaler, Yeah, would have been a lot better. He should have never left the house. He should have

just ate again. Let's hear him talk about it. I want to ask you a favorite okay, yeah, so you can tell him not to be rough on me because you know, I can't Patty breathe right now, all right, So that's all I wanted to say, you know I don't. Yeah, well I think so I'm gonna leave my in Hailor. I forgot my halor at home. You know, I went all over all over La Morrigan looking for did you earn in Halor? But I guess they don't sell it, you know, behind the counter, over the counter, by the

way, one of the best. He is not having any asthma problems, like he is breathing just fine. There was not one wheeze in that whole speech of I drove all over Salem. Yeah, And you know, I feel like if he had, we would have heard about that as part of the police report of this file or of this case, rather would have been in the file like oh, you know, before he drove across state lines, there's lots of camera footage of him going into different CVS stores trying to

find it inhaler Or. You know, we don't know why he kept going to a CVS storrees like, no, none of that ever happened. Yeah, And also people would have been able to take him had he been having asthma attacks. Yeah, that's true. The old man, the old woman. I'm thinking the grandma would take him. Yeah, the two teenagers would. Can you guys breathe? Can you guys just put in the stywheel for

me? Yeah? It was too much and they ran. They ran to the car, right, that's what's gonna people a Yeah, that doesn't work. Now. This also made me wonder this whole U nice nine one one operator? Again, we have played so many nine one one operators on this show. I'm gonna stop you. Let's go back. Sure, she mocked him. Oh that's terrible. Do you need medical? Yeah, she totally mocked him. I didn't even catch that, but you're right she did it

goes No, I don't think. Oh yeah, well maybe. But what I was going to ask is what if he had connected with one of the many completely impatient nine one one operators that we normally talk about on this show. Sarah, this this is, this is, this is nine one one, this is We don't have any trouble driving. Where are you driving? Why don't you stop? Just stop driving? Sir? The wide one on

your left side stops his car, You dip shit pull over. Yeah, I'm just saying again, I do think the nine one one operator did a great job and she did everything that kind of makes me wish we had gotten a different one. But yeah, pardon me for the audio, for the laughs, for the show, yeah, you know, not for the court case show off for them. There were a couple other things that Edwyn says

to this nine one one operator. This is where a lot of those like his story is coming out, because it's really the first time that you've, like in the real timeline. This is the first time Edwin is like revealing what he did. But he's saying things like that student was really drunk and I ran her over. Yeah. He talked about how he just basically what he said, Mitch just ran into my car. Yeah, I was at a stop sign. She had just rammed her head into my car and then

she put her ass up in the air. That's basically what he said, right, and later the idea that he just borrowed the car of the woman that he took hostage. But I just love in Sword and Scale episodes where the audio just kind of speaks for itself and you just are hearing this extended, not one one call of the bullshit that this guy is spouting, and at this point in the episode, like we know what really transpired, and it's just it's just I use the word earlier, but it's sickening. You

know. You listen to these these guys lying and he's already gotten away with it, you know. Yeah, leave us, leave us a comment on one of the sword and scale rewind Twitter or Instagram. Let us know whether they should have shut him down, like if she was too nice, whether she should have had a different attitude. Let us know, yeah, because

that's part of this. We want you guys commenting with us, because we're discussing the episode as a group, Like it's about us talking about great if you guys responded to us as well and said you're wrong or every so often, or hey, you guys are on the right track. I think this guy should have had a cattle prod but in his buttle Yeah, or just say hi, you know, just drop an hi to us. That's fine too, Hi the show. Um, okay, but I do have one

more clip of the nine one one call from Edwin. You can play at all. It's yeah, Like I think you could listen to that every day and have a good giggle. Well, this is where I laugh. The hardest, which is it's nearing the end. Now the cops are on his tail. He has already said something along the lines of just let him pass me. It's cool, I don't care. And this this nine one one opera is like, sir, you need to pull your car over. You know, if they could go to another call, I'll pull over and then

they could come back to me. Yeah. Yeah. And as this call is ending, Edwin is trying to get off of the line and she's trying desperately to keep him on the line, and he mentions one of my favorite things in this entire story, and I'll let it speak for itself. I'm just gonna call her grandma, apologize, and then I'll stop you. Right now, let's just kind of we're about are you stopping this? We're about

stopping and getting you guys both safe. Okay, all right, okay, I'll stop hang up now, I'm gonna stand the line with you, okay, Okay, Well, basically or technically it's right, you know, if you're calling in an emergency and you know what, this is just a pologics and circumstance. Okay, technically was he trying to be funny? I God, I hope not, because he's just stupid, I thought. I'm I thought, this is what I thought. When I heard that. I was

like, that's hilarious. He's being a douche. And then I thought, oh my god, he's flirting with her. Oh really, that's what I thought. I thought he was flirting with her. I mean this guy, I mean maybe sure, he's out of his fucking trees, just out of his mind, dude. Yeah. Um, the fact that that it's occurring to him. First of all, he's been on the phone with her for several off an hour minutes at this point. But let's not forget the fact

that he just murdered and raped a girl. He's kidnapped for other people, and he's like, uh, you know, technically I don't need Yeah, well that was what I thought too. It's like he's just worried that they're gonna like, like, the jury's reading off your charges. For the jury for the the the effect of talking on a cell phone while in a high speed pursuit, the defendants found guilty. Like you're done, dude, You're done. Ah. He's such a If it would just something, if it

would just not murder, it would be so fucking better. Yeah, you know a lot of things just it's just you just laugh and and just go what a fucking tool. You know. I think Mike Buday said it best in this episode, What a douche. Yeah, he said that was just like douche, And I wondered, I want to ask Mike. I want to ask him how many takes it took him to get that? Yeah,

I felt it. What a douche. Well this guy can take. He continues to be a creep even after all this, because he is not telling people where the body is and he doesn't want to because he doesn't want them to kill him. So he's kind of like holding this information hostage until the time that he feels is important enough to like tell them where it is. And then when he's been assured that everything's going to be fine, that's when he kind of points to the map, right, draws them a map and

goes, oh, you guys aren't going to beat me up? Okay? Yeah, well he was kind of wished that they would beat people up every so often too. Yeah, like you should get in trouble for beating up innocent people, but if they're guilty, you should be able to beat him up. Let's just let the jurors around a little bit angry man. Yeah, that's what we'll call the program. Oh my god, this is brilliant.

Not since Murder Bleach have we come up with something. So the episode ends here with this idea that there's a new law that hopefully prevent the abuse of power that these campus security officers have. You know. Part of the tragedy of this story, as I guess, there was no GPS in the car, there was no recording system in the car. All that stuff is pretty standard now. I would be surprised to hear about something that doesn't have a GPS system in it. For example, if you're going to put somebody

a college age into a car, it should be recorded. It shouldn't be it shouldn't be just lucy goosey like that. Definitely, especially again, like on a college campus. We're not talking about like patrolling the streets of Compton or something, you know, and as we're talking about well you just described USC. Yeah that's true, true, But USC's protected, it's it's it is mostly protected by sheriffs, right, So yeah, yeah, yeah,

USC is an interesting campus there. I had friends that went there and the way that they described it was there was of the four walls of the USC campus, the four different sides. One side was pretty good, one side was okay, and then the other two sides you do not want to go into. Yeah, you just don't want to be over yeah, you know. And the fact that they're saying one of them was okay blows my mind.

Yeah it is. It is not a good area. The first time I've seen USC, I'm like, what the fun you decided learning would be good here? I think that good part is like where all the fraternities are and stuff. It's just kind of a larger percentage of students over there. But nothing like putting rich kids in the middle of the ghetto. Like what it is. USC is just a bunch of dicks. It's it's a strange

campus, that's for sure. Um. I do have one update by the way, Oh we got an update, and the update is related to the wife who, at the beginning of the story was training to be a police officer. Funny because I was wondering what happened to her, whether she became

a kamp or not. Well, a few weeks after Kayley was murdered, Edwin's wife divorced him no doubt, and shortly after that, she quit her position as a police officer after only thirteen months in law enforcement, and in her resignation letter, she said, this decision has not been easy, but I've decided that it will be in the best interest for my career advancement and

future development. What does that mean? I think he just realized she didn't have what it takes to be But what does she mean by her career advancement? Yeah, that was a very interesting way of putting it. I think the best thing for my advancing my career is ending it. Yeah, that does it is not being involved in it? Yeah, well again she is. I'm sure people played that tape for I'm sure when she got haze, they just put that on a loop in the office and go, right,

hey, dumb, dumb, let's go solve a crime. I mean, I do feel bad for her too, though. I mean this obviously learned a very important lesson about trusting you know who you put your trust into. But I I interrupt you. But my points what do on this show? Yeah? I think she didn't. She People show you what they want to show you, Like we we fall in love with people because of who we think they are. He wasn't showing her what he was. Yeah, so

how else? But I do know we've we've we've all I've heard stories of of somebody with a completely different family in a different town. Sure what you know, you're just like, how did how did they do that? Well? Again, that's part of what makes this show so crazy, as they give you black and white examples of the thing that you never thought could happen actually happening, and in the worst possible way. I could see my wife killing me. Yeah, yeah, you know, I've often wondered that myself.

My wife and I listened to a lot of true crime. So if she's planning out, you know, how to get away with things. Yeah, although she's she's smart though. Like we had an AT and T cable guy like come to the door to like say something about some tower in the backyard needs to be fixed, and she straight up was like hold on a minute, sir, and closed the door and called up AT and T and like made sure that there's a service in our area. It was like, good on you man. Something So it was he lying, No, he

wasn't, but he could have could have been. That's awesome. Yeah, she trusts no one. She trusts nobody, not even awesome. I've been married to her for she trust at and t they seem like they're on the up and up. Yeah, you must have been like, finally you're putting a tower around here. People get a horrible service exactly. But you know, I think that that just about does it for this episode. That does it. We're wrapping it up. Well, it's sad. I really feel

bad for the family. And the boyfriend was just I'm sure he's dealing with guilt, right, Oh sure. I mean they had that huge blow up and then he's like, I'll be inside. I'm sure you're going to be in any minute now to make up with me, and then she just never showed up. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. And I mean you gotta wonder if he didn't think that he was going to be a suspect, because

her asked texts were like, oh fuck yourself. Yeah, the stuff in the fact that it moved so quick was the only he wasn't right, I were able to figure everything out. Otherwise he would have definitely been the one they would have definitely been investigating. Well, yeah, especially with a huge fight and everything that before, but like you said, it's it was such

a thing that happens to everybody. Go out and your party with your friends, and you know, you got a call from your drunk significant other who needs a lift, and maybe you're a little pissed off that you gotta go do it. But let's playing video games in my underwears. I didn't want to have to come here. I'll be inside. But terrible things can happen very quickly. Yeah, just be safe, be smart, and charge your phone. People, charge your phone. That's another I'm glad you brought that

up right here, because even in twenty sixteen. Again, not to victim blame here, but you're blaming the whole year. But you gotta charge your phone. They think it's like portable chargers, so you can charge it while you're on the go. Yeah, no more excuses. People, you're in the car driving home, plug it in. Yeah yeah. And you know what, if you have your phone go on, why don't you go ahead and hit that subscribe button. Subscribe, like rate and review, Yes,

all four of those things, Sword and Scale rewind. We're still here. We're going to keep crushing all these episodes. Right. Next week's is quite a doozy, probably one of the saddest episodes in a recent memory. I'm looking forward to it. I'm not either, but we are gonna somehow get through it. We're gonna get some giggles out of it. Somehow. Well, that's what we do. We've got, we discussed the show, we

have some laughs, and then we try to learn a lesson. Yes, well, in the meantime, go ahead and listen to episode one sixty seven so that you'll be all ready to go. And again, Happy holidays. I hope everybody's having some great time with their family, not arguing or anything like that. I'll argue a little bit, but have fun, maybe have a good giggle. Don't don't become one of our shows. Yeah, good call. Yeah, and again. Follow me on Twitter, Matt Fondelier.

Yeah, you're on Twitter at Sura Sura Surre Ian Bag is Ian Bag. I'll be there having a gingerbread Mountain New All right, Well, happy holidays again, marek Christmas, Mac, Marry Christmas. Happy holidays, and I don't believe in all the holidays. Just mark Christmas and I'll let Mike do the do our taglines a little bit different, but you're gonna understand what he's saying. What a douche sort scale we want is a production of incongruity media.

If you enjoyed the show, leave us a five star rating at a glowing review. No criticism please, it hurts our feelings. Be sure to tell your friends about us, but not your family or co workers because they'll think you're weird. Okay, that's it, let's tell next time. Don't be a douchebag. Departed should handed, the art, departed should intended, the intenden in the future