Solar Cars: The Future Now May Be Now, Almost

about those solar cars. The interview is back from early February where we spoke with Hugh Bromley, who leads consumer behavior research for BENF, about his report titled Solar Powered Cars Trickle or Charged, where in the opening line he says, quote, solar powered vehicles are hitting the frequent roadways, so he'll tell us to what extent they're out on the road and how much of it is real and how much

of it is a gimmick. Being if users can get this report on bf dot com to be NF mobile app and the Bloomberg terminal as a reminder being if does not provide investment or strategy advice, and you can hear the full disclaimer at the end of the show him Mark Taylor, and you're listening to switch on to BENF podcast. Now, Hugh, why are we studying solar powered cars? Solar powered cars from a long tiving bunched in with all the other absurd concepts like solar powered roads. Is

it a solar powered car? Is it solar on a car. We're starting to see some big, big automotive brands put solar into their vehicles. In some cases it's just there to appeal to some new buyer, but in other cases it could make a little bit of a difference to your ev range. But there's lots of IFFs there. Okay, so this is not a new idea, is it. No, it's not. I mean I remember in Colors drive you around and beat up old auti that had solar cells

in its sun roof, So they've been out there. The first generation Leaf had a little solar cell and its back spoiler. So the idea you point out in the note has actually been around since the late fifties. They call it bottled up solar energy that would soon be driving people around, right, Yeah, And this kind of Jetson's idea that we'd soon have these levitating vehicles driven by

solar and judging up batteries to get you around. There's always been something coming, right, but it's only really now that we've seen this shift to us for k I, he's hitting the streets that it's more than that gimmick that sits in your sunroof and maybe charges your starter battery, maybe runs a fan in your cabin. And now it's actually something you can do that's helpful, that's practical, and that that's to to charge you attraction battery. So let's

go through that. So there are three main types of implementation. Can you list those out for us? The first one is those auxiliary panels, and those ones are basically gimmick. It's just trickle charging your starter a motor, or it might be running a ventilation fan. Does that mean though, if your battery diet and you needed a jump, you could rely on solar power maybe eventually if you waited a few days and came back, maybe then maybe then you get going again. The second one is kind of

what I call supplementary. So these are now connected to your attraction battery, but they're pretty small, so it might only be giving you a couple of miles a day of range at best, and might be still the size of just the sun roof for a little bit bigger. And then you have the dream, which is to be a primarily solar powered vehicle. There's a couple of startups

that have pretty promising products. There's one start in particular, a company called light Year and then Model the light Year one out of the Netherlands, and that's a concept to the moment, but they're looking to go into production in the next couple of years. And that's a vehicle that won't be exclusively solar powered, but it will be potentially primarily solo powered, depending on how you use it. And they're currently just the medals taking pre orders, but

they're about to open up the US office. They're trying to get their price down to the less than half aware it is now. You know, if all these things fall into place, it doesn't just put solar into a vehicle, but actually changes a lot of the vehicle designed to to make it kind of supportive of that new drive train. So let's go into that supplementary power a bit more. You said there's two main benefits to it, kind of outline these already, but to boost the range for one

and two to reduce the time spent charging. Now to me, they seem kind of mutually exclusive, right that if you're using the power of the sun to extend your range. You're using that to add power to your battery, you're using that power to drive, so you're still gonna be spending as much time at the charging station as you would. It doesn't seem quite a work for me. Well, I think the average American now drives about thirty miles a day, right, So these little sun routs are not going to do that.

They're going to do a tenth that that you might get two to five miles out of it, depending on on the size of the array and the size of the vehicle. So it really is only just topping it up. But that means you might only need to visit the charging station for ten minutes less. Or you know, if it's a car that you don't use every day and sits on the street gathering sunlight, you know, throughout the week, and then on the weekends, you know, you might want

to make a run out of town. It can kind of accumulate over time, so it's not a game change. And maybe the flip side is there are users who do just pot around town and don't go very far, and this could make a difference for them. It's not there to totally replace your charging network or your home charging by any means, it's just a little bit of extra juice. You think about share cars, they sit on the street all day or all the time and often don't go very far, in which case they could just

be there. It's sucking up sunlight as well. Okay, so let's talk about the numbers. So they can extend the range a couple of miles for a sunroof based array, but for a bigger array for your whole roof. How far are we talking? How big is the array? Supplementary vehicles for there's two on the market globally that are connected to the traction batteries. It's on the Toyota Prime, they're not not in the US models, and on the Sonata Hybrid. The Preyers can get about three and a

half k's of of additional range. The company says two miles to day of additional range. It's not huge, that's that's only a smaller rates whats so you know that's like putting half of solar panel on your roof basically, and give us some context, how big is a ray on a rooftop? Between four and seven or eight killer what's on your roof? So you know this is tiny? You know and how to get these the ones that are just that are touched to hybrid. What's okay? So

quite a bit smaller, quite a bit smaller. You might put twenty panels in your roof. This is half a panel that you're putting on your car. And spaces is a limiting factor here, right, But actually what you're seeing in there's this company's son No in Germany, and they're not just filling up the roof, but they're starting to fill up the body panels as well. Or at the point where solar is cheap enough that you don't need

to orientate it perfectly. You just want to suck up all that diffuse slide as well and get the extra miles. You spoke at the BNF summit not too long ago in San Francisco a bit about foreigm factor in electric vehicles, how looks actually matter? Would you drive a car with solar cells all around it? I love the idea as a former solar analyst, but I think the real challenge for me is the premium you're going to pay. The

soul is actually not worth a lot here. There maybe only a hundred dollars with the solar cells that go into one of these roofs, but you're probably talking about a one thousand to even three thousand dollar premium on these vehicles. And the big factor there is the glass that encapsulates the solar cell. That's not that different to what you'd pay for a full panoramic sunroof on your vehicle anyway, but in which case you get to bask

in all the lights and everything else. So the idea is, are you going to pay a premium for that big glass roof and then you're going to take away the benefits of it by covering and solar Yeah, And I don't know if that appeals to all that many people, but there'll be something. I'm hesitating here because I don't know what I would do. I'm not sure if I would want to drive one it's covered in solar panels.

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, it might be more likely that you see this going into the body panels. Then it doesn't interfere with your comfort level, and if you don't get quite as much power out of it, it's okay. The solar panels are dirt cheap. Yeah. So you mentioned Hyundai, you mentioned Toyota, So no, no, and late year who else is thinking about this or is

involved in it. The other one that's been out there for a long time is actually Karma the Fiska Karma had a solar panel in its roof that was only run for about eighteen months. That original system wasn't hooked up to the traction battery though it's a plug in hybrid,

but the solar panel only power a fan in the cabin. Again, the new version has a bigger solar panel and actually againt the traction battery now, so it does make a difference, albeit on a vehicle that's not really designed for efficiency there for power, what do you see for those types of companies? Do you see them making it on their own, being bought by a bigger automaker, or just going under. Well, at the moment, they're doing a lot of it themselves

or through partnerships with specially firm. So, for example, the Sono sign is going to be manufactured in Sweden what is now an electric vehicle hub at a former SAD plant. The light Year one has just announced that we outsourcing production to a partner, not doing it themselves. But what's really interesting is always innovations occurring. We're seeing these startups that have pretty cool technology may not scale, but even the technology within the vehicle itself, embedding the cell into

the panels, and the automakers haven't touched it. There's no automakers that have either of you partner directly with them or put funds in or participated in the venture rounds. And actually there could be something here. They're getting pre orders that aren't insignificant. Do you think the big iteomakers are missing it or just not paying attention. I suspect it's mostly not paying attention. There have been automakers that have tried and been burnt by Solar in the past.

Because in your report you have a chart in there that shows our top ten automakers have at least considered this or tried it in some way. What's holding them all back? Everyone has right or the automakers were either involved in one of the university racing teams or their engineers and designers wanted to put it in a roof. Nothing is made in his production outside of the turn and they on the model and these really old autias

and masters. I'm a little bit surprised that hasn't been a bit more speculation on this, even the solar industry is not quite are yet. They're selling normal cells into into these manufacturers rather than being involved themselves. But that could change, it seems in electric vehicles. You know one thing that has always been the thing that is making a difference, but not as talked about it is delivery vehicles or freight or something like that. This seems to

be a perfect application for delivery vehicles as well. Putting solar rays on panel vans maybe, but I think at the price point I said before, you know, one of three thousand dollars, it's not going to pay itself back. Okay, So if you if you suddenly translate this to a more rational consumer, it probably doesn't make sense. We have seen companies wrap bus roots and pannier vans in thin

film solar in the past. Those haven't gone all that far from a mixture of bad technology, choice and questionable vendors. But if the economics could stack up there, you're right, it's an application that might make more sense. They're on the road, they're exposed, they're not parked on the crown. There's more opportunity potentially. Okay, So why this why now? Why is this picking up at all? So one reason is just that solar is very cheer, but that doesn't

really explain it. There's been no solar breakthrough that suddenly it makes sense. In vehicles again, these companies are using solar cells that are basically the same that are going on your roof into the field. What's really different is that one we have electric vehicles on the road, and secondly, those electric vehicles are becoming much more efficient that you can go a whole lot further on a killed hour of stored energy now you could a few years ago.

And that means that if you have solar cells becoming a little bit more efficient and cars becoming a whole lot more efficient, those solar panels suddenly make a bigger difference. And also varies depending on the vehicle. Right, So the plug in hybrids tend to be less electrically efficient than a full electric vehicle, so you won't get as much bank for your solar cell on a on a plug in hybrid as you would on a on a full electric vehicle. So this is on the margins. Do you

think it will stay in the margins? You'll we'll start to see them on our cars in the near future. I think we're going to see more just because we're at the point where like, why not, you know, you're talking about a hundred bucks of solar on a forty fifty dollar vehicle. Why not? TESL has been the real absent name here for a long time. But once they're cann put on the Model three, then and happen. There's now an announcement that it will go on the cyber truck.

May or may not happen. I believe must Well, it's going to be its own roof and potentially these big flap out panels, so that would be different. But I think we'll continue to see it as an option in cars that have panoramic some roofs anyway, But I'm not sure how big the addressing market is for how many customers actually want to sacrifice some they're a light in order to get solar panels and not get a discount

for that. But if things move a little bit further and it's integrated into body panels, into your front hood or your side panels at the right price, it delivers some benefit. It doesn't take you off the grid. It doesn't mean you're going to run out of juice five kilometers down the road and have to pull over and wait three days for a recharge. It just means that you have that little bit extra of free range every day. I'll take it. I'll take free range. That sounds great.

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