Scramble for Battery Metals Puts Chemistries in Focus

in turn require the metals that they're made of. But with most things, it's not quite that simple, and that's why we decided to bring our lead metals and mining analysts onto the show today. So let's take a quick step back and if we look at benfs annual Long Term Electric Vehicle Outlook, they look at the future of

what demand for electric vehicles could look like. The transition is underway and road transport oil demand could peak as soon as the electric vehicle market opportunity between two and well it could be fifty three trillion dollars according to BENFS Economic transition scenario. So in short, this demand sees

no lindes of abating in the future. But in order for any of this to happen again, we're going to need more batteries and therefore more battery metals, So what's important for a metals analysts to consider when thinking about the future of supply and demand in this space. In order to discuss this complexity with us and many of the factors just swimming around in his head, Quoisium Popo joins us today and he is the lead analyst on

metals and mining for BENOF. To research more about these topics and to access the underlying data be enough subscribers can go to the Bloomberg terminal or b enof dot com or BNF smobil app and I recommend reading the piece titled one Battery Metals Outlook Supply Turbulence Ahead. As a reminder, B and e F does not provide investment or strategy advice, and you can hear our full disclaimer

at the very end of the show. And also if you want to hear more of our shows on the future of energy, transport and sustainability and be alerted to when they come out, make sure to click subscribe on whatever podcast player you're listening to us on today. And now let's speak with Quzily about battery Metals Crazy. Thank

you very much for coming back to the show. Thank you you know so the last time we were here, you and I discussed cobalt specifically, but today we're actually going to take it back and we're going to talk about kind of all battery metals because you recently did a market outlook for this group of metals. So as

we get started, can you outline what are the battery metals? Yeah, so it really depends on who you ask, right, which batching technology that you're looking at For us specifically Bloom again the f When we talk about boutchy metals, we're trying to concentrain it within the contest of my technology called lethio, my own batteries. So little iron batteries have become the dominant battery technology in the space. That means a lot to us, which is i e. The electric

vehicle industry and also the stationary storage. So what is a little iron batteries? So it's a battery wa I said, name sounds there's a lithium in there. So if you forget any battery metal, Danta, don't forget that lithium. Yeah, it's in the name exactly what is in the name? Yes, so that is number one, number two. It also depends on which battery chemistry beyond just having a lithium in there.

It depends on which battery chemistry. Are quite a number of them, but what we've come to realize is that there are a few metals that are consistent with the dominant chemistry that is in our electric vehicles today as well as in our stationary storage. So I would name just those ones that we believe are quite dominant and also from a supply chain perspective, have a lot of importance because they would make the ev adoption dream happen ultimately.

So number one I've mentioned lithium. I also want to add another one called nickel. So nickel you will find it in the min Southeast Asia, in Indonesia, you can also find it in countries like Australia. And then third to that, you have cobotes. And you reminded our listeners of our inter action the last couple of months ago where I just returned from the d r C as part of my work to identify what is actually happening in the cobalt industry. So that is the third one.

The fourth one we have manganese. So manganese is predominantly extracted in South Africa, so they are the market leaders in the extraction of manganese, so that is also used as a battery metal. And I think in terms of cathode. Cathode is that if you ever had a look at a battery, there is a plast and a minor sign. So the plas sign represents what we call the cathode. So these four metals are the ones that are bloomed. Again, yes,

we cover and classify them as the cathode. There is also a minor sign in another for there to be that extrage of energy. I own was moving from one point to data. So the minor sign on your battery is what it encompasses of a metal called graphic to a material called graphic. So all in all data I've mentioned five materials or metals. We've got lithium, we've got a nickel, we've got cobalts, we've got manganese, and then

graph FLI. So for the battery metals that we're covering, or actually for battery metals generally, which are the raw materials that go into making these vehicle batteries that they were talking about as we're looking at electrifying transport, and that was covered actually in a previous episode where we talked a bit about the electric vehicle outlook that we put out every year. Do we have a sense for how much the cost of the raw materials the metals

actually are in terms of the overall cost of the battery. Absolutely, So this is also a very interesting area. So depending on which chemistry use, you realize that a huge component of your battery it's coming out of the metals. But I think the key take home is the fact that most expensive component if you slide o peanut buttery, is a metals in there. And by this I'm not saying that please go slide open and electricy vehicle battery. Just take the motel cells. It's not safe. Don't do that.

Although when you're done with it, circular economy recycling, that's a whole another show. We can have those battery metals like professionally extracted and reused. But anyway, I digress. We'll do that another day. So you're saying once you're in the battery, so once you in battery. So there are some chemistries where the battery, the total battery costs from materials will be able six of the total costs, so

much cereals the total cost of the battery. And there are some chemistry day now that it could go as high as it really depends on the battery chemistry, but those are the ranges that acquis and our modeling is

telling us that it could get through. Do you think that when individuals who are doing development on the battery chemistryes I know they're looking at batteries that will last longer, have longer range in theory for these vehicles when they're making them, do you think that they're also trying to remove dependence on specific metals and reduce the need for specific metals for various reasons, whether it be human rights issues around the extraction of that particular metal or around

the costs, which is what we're really and delve into today because the supply and demand side of things, as we're looking at inflationary environment and supply chain disruption certainly is hitting this industry as it is so many. Do you think that that is a place where people are specifically trying to change the chemistry is to adjust to or is it really much more around battery performance battery life. So we actually looked at this question and analysis and

we singled out cobalt. Right. We mentioned that a couple of months ago I came here, we talked about my experience in the DRC and the fact that there's still consense around ethical supply chain. At that time as well, the cobalt prices were at record high. To just stand that one of the major mining companies which extract cobalt had to shut down the MIND because the prices were

not favorable for them. So what happened between that time, which is somewhere around twenty nine and now, is the fact that automakers reacted to first of all, the high price and then the ethical challenges associated with the supply chain what they do. So remember how I just talked about the fact that they are different battery chemistries. In other ways, there are different metals which form the catholic

materials or the battery itself. So automakers realize that if they can divect to other chemistries like the lethio myron phosphate battery technology which uses lethion, iron and phosphate that's its name sounds, and they DIVECT from the high nickel chemistry which uses nickel, cobalt and manganese. If they could do this diversion, it would have saved themselves quite a lot of money simply because iron in phosphate are low

cost metals. But then most importantly, they would have weaned themselves of cobalt because there's battery technology that's not require

you to use cobalt. So that is absolutely happening. And when we run the numbers, what we've realized is that in twenty what bloom begin he thought would be the total demand for cobalt from batteries by have been reduced by half, simple because which is quite big cause I think for me it ended up being my favorite chart and also my most revealing experience during the production of this report. So you do realize that initially I was thinking, oh, maybe did we get it wround at the beginning, And

actually it's industry that was switching. So let me do a little bit of name calling companies that are actually switched into this. I own little my own phosphate technology.

Of course, the obvious one, Tesla, which was a big surprise to me because if four years ago you had told me that Tesla is going to use a battery technology that is currently dominant in China, that Chinese company c t L is the biggest manufacturer of LFP, If you have told me that Tesla and American company will switch to a China dominant battery chemistry four years ago. I probably have laughed. Right, that was the reality when elon mask Dancer stage and opened the Shan High factory.

Months later, they announced that their entry model or this standard model, Model three, is going to use the LSP battery technology in China and there are discussions of even extending it to Europe. Just this morning, I woke up and then I had the fod 's also announced that its entry level electric vehicle is also going to use the LFP. Mes Cities has done that already, BM doub

has done that. So you're absolutely correct when you mentioned that the demand side or electric vehica manufacturers are very open to change and they will switch or react to conditions within the supply G and B it's prices or ethical concerns. Now for a very short break, stay with us. So, which are the battery metals that you would say are the ones to watch right now and which ones are

having kind of the greatest constraints on pricing. It feels like looking at your children and then trying to decide which which of the metals. Yeah, I had a chat with our transport team led by Collins, my colleague Collins, about which of these is important, which of these should we highlight as the most at risk? And it turns out all of them, Dana, when we did the numbers specifically, so to be able to put that in contest, let's

just shorten the time frame. So when we looked at this year, which of them from a supply needs in demand perspective is the one at most risk? All of them? And it comes down to a couple of factors that we've been experienced. And I know you talked about inflation earlier, but beyond just inflation, which are probably addressed down the line, Beyond just inflation, you would realize that over the last three years the world has gone through and not so

good experience. Particularly we covered right, We've lost some life sadly that people who have not been able to recover and they're experiencing long symptoms. It's not really been a

very good experience. Beyond just this experience as well, the supply chain has taken a hit, and part of that hits is the fact that companies that were supposed to bring on production to me growing demand had to readjust their capital location right if you're printing and on certain market where you don't know what tomorrow is gonna look like, you want to retain as much cash as you can

on your balance sheet. So what that means is that if you're supposed to invest in expanding in Indonesia, or building a new plant in South Africa, or even diversifying into a new market in the United States of America, you think about that twice simply because there's so much uncertainty. And that is what happening at the supply side. That's what happened there where companies failed to invest in their expansion programs but demanded and stop. China did not stop

buying electric vehicles. Europe did not stop buying electric vehicles. They kept growing. So we are in this year where hold on, we've realized that actually there's some enough supply. Litm is faced on that challenge and prices have risen between seven six hundred to seven percent over the last eighteen months. In day now, if you're in a business where the price of your input commodity has risen to

that level in eighteen months, you matter as well. That's packed right, because everything changes and these are costs you cannot easily pass on too. You can assumer if you look at cobalts as well, there are things happening in the d r C that is beginning to threaten some percentage of supply which will make supply inadequate to meet demand. If you look at manganese so fit as well, lack of investment in China and elsewhere in the world is leading to a scenario where the world would have to

think twice whether there is enough to meet demand. Also, if you extended to graph it it's a little bit balanced. So I would say that I wouldn't be worried about graphite this year so much. But then just in one is nickel, and we are actually quite both in the nickel space and called a deficit that we might actually

be heading into a deficit of thtor tons. That's not much, right, but these are the things that drive prices and also slow down their adoption to electric vehicles, because if auto companies cannot lay hands on these metals that are who shell to the productional electories, they get till manufacturing they are not able to produce, and then it's just extense the delivery of electric vehicles and it begins to eat

into our ability or electric vehicle ability to penetrate markets. Yeah, because this isn't just a discussion around prices and whether or not prices are high and those will get passed on to the consumer. It's about delivery of these things altogether. Will we be able to make enough to electrify in the timelines that have been so clearly outlined for us in terms of the carbon budget for example, this being you know, one of the key ways of decarbonizing transport.

So let's talk a little bit actually just about where this might break down and whether or not we are already seeing or we think we may see in the next couple of years, real slow down in terms of

you know, production and delivery of vehicles. Are there specific choke points that that you're watching super closely at the moment where your things are just not getting to where they need to be physically, given that this is a truly global supply chain, So we tried to use a qualitative way of you know, testing the pose of how this is translated into their consumer and then obviously being being there if we're also very data heavy, so we

tried to use a quant way of defining this. So then if you have a friend that has ordered a Tesla folks World an electric version or a BM doub electric vehicle, just ask them how the weight in time game has been going the last few weeks or the last few months, and I think not many people are having good experiences because the weight in time keeps getting

longer and longer. And as test that reported in this recent update company update, what material shortages or the supply chain shortage is actually becoming a material concern for them because it's beginning to impact the ability to produce. So that is a qualitative way where we realize that these supply chain issues are beginning to translate an impact in the end consumer. The second way we look at it is we do think that the tipping point for electric

vehicle adoption is actually going to count from costs. Then if you worked in the showroom and you could get the price of an internal combustion let me name call again, Corolla, the same price as you get an electric vehicle Tesla Mod three. Well, the option which would you choose? Probably the Corolla it's less expensive, right, But then if they were the same price as a Tesla, it's the same

price maybe the Tesla. Yeah, the Tesla they see, and that is where we believe that it will be the tennant point for mass adoption of electric vehicle when you walk into the showroom and you don't have concent about I need to pay extra money to be able to

afford an electric vehicle. But then it's just a matter of which one appeals to be more So, I think the tipping point will be that price, what we call price priority, and our storage team has crunched the numbers that what battery price would we attain price parity, and we came down to hundred dollar, taking on what our right that is the holy grown number that we do believe that all we that the industry is working towards. At what point that's the average price of batteries reach undred?

Unfortunately for us at Blue Bag year for our storage team has built authority in this area where every year we push out this report and initially, prior to the supply chain concerns, our working census, based on our modeling, our forward looking model was stating that we could attained that price parity between twenty twenty three. Guess what that's

feeling pretty far away? Yeah, exactly, once we started baking in a scenario of these higher commodity prices as a result of these shortages, what we're seeing is that the earliest we could not reach it. If these challenges, supply chain challenges extending to next year is beginning to look like and if it goes even further out, these four fatility goes further out, we could be looking at probably

later in the decade. Right. So that is also the second way where we try to quantitatively assess what the impact of these higher prices would be on the electric vehicle consumer. So when I talked about the fact that I find out from your friends Collis family who have ordered an electric vehicle and asked them how the weiting game is going at the moment, and I'm pretty sure they will tell you that it keeps getting longer and longer.

And two, at what points are we going to be able to attain a hundred dollar you know, a particular at our battery cost on average, and you realize that that access tended further than what we initially thought. And that is the point where we believe that evs will reach price priority with internal composting engine. And if that goes further out, then the mass abdorction of ev could potentially end up being delayed. So you mentioned as a year, and I just want to be really clear on that.

And I know it's impossible to predict the future. We are trying to say, when do we all things remaining constant today, when do we think things may normalize? And I know in the natural gas space, for example, and we've covered that on this show. You originally it was, oh, it's going to be another two years, and then now that timeline is looking like it's it's it's kind of going further away. When all things constant you expecting start to normalize in the battery supply chain space or could

it be significantly further out than that? So let me let me think I'll listener through it. Behind the scenes

of very polt I published in January. Right in January, Bloomberg any of published It's fast Battery Metals Price Outlook, where we trying to look at where prices would be in twenty thirty and actually went on stage to confidently present these results at our San Francisco summit, so focused on batteries, right, like, that's one of the topics that comes up a lot of the San Francisco summit exactually and I confidently said at that time that base on

where we have seen supply chains, and I'm we don't think that list. Your price at that time was forty dollars on average parametric m. We don't think that we will see it go higher. We potentially might have hit the roof at that time. Three months later, prices doubled, and then I have to do the hard and difficult job of presenting the reports to a clients every now

and then. So what I did then there is that rather than use that report I saw a forecast of the future, I used it to teach our clients how not to forecasts. So I think that is how I'm going to answer your question, right, okay, so how not to poecast? So so what did you learn from that experience? Because again, you know, we can only make decisions, not decisions. We can only think about for looking scenarios based on

the information we have today. But what were the moving parts that you now feel are potentially too volatile to be able to really confidently look too far out? The short term should not be deterched from the long term. They are they are. There are two parts really joined ot the hip right, and at that time we're pretty confident that nothing in the short term would matter dramatically

to impart our long term average. Few a month later, the Russia War happened, and then it just change you organized supply chain against I think the key s and we learned is that you should one way or the other, find a way to connect the short term which our

long term view, not just number one. Number two. We need to also understand that if the historical challenges, or if the historical factors that drove the market to where it is now have not been resolved, it's very important not to assume that the future is going to be different. And I think if we have thought about that a

little bit more and realized that the overhang. Yes, I live in London and if you if you sat in the tube in London today, you probably assume that COVID doesn't exist anymore, right, But then if you go to countries like China where they are still aggressively enforcing policies to contain COVID, you would come to a realization that some key markets that actually drive the commodity market are still under the not so comfortable more difficulty impact of

COVED and that is a factor in the manufacturing. So if we have thought about the fact that if these challenges that were experienced last year, last two years have not been eliminated globally still persists, then the challenge that drove us to higher prices will still remain. So that is less than number two, right, And I think less than number three is the fact that the market is not as rational as we probably as human is right. Where prices would only move based on supply demands, sometimes

government policies in key countries also impact prices. Sometimes short term reactions like what has happened would end up being long term also impact prices. So I think these are the three things. And to answer your question as to where we see prices, so let's take number one. The short term factors that are beginning to look long term.

Have they been resolved And the answer is no. If you look at Russia and other issues that we thought would just be a short term issue, they're beginning to look long term and they will continually impact supply chain.

So what that What does that mean for prices? It means that whatever prices are today is very unlikely that they will move below what it is today because those challenges have not resolved to COVID issue of COVID, it's not been resolved yet in China right, China is still aiming for a zero COVID policy that is affective manufacturing. So would we see a tsunami of supplied come on line this year? No, So if we're not gonna see scenami of supplied but demand keeps growing, does that mean

that we'll see prices begin to fall? Probably not right. So I think these are the two things that I would say what probably lead us to having prices remain elevated, specifically for major battery matters in a short to near term, so until probably about the end of next year, I would say that prices are likely to remain elevate. It what I can confidently tell you that I don't think we will see a seven percent to jump in the next eighteen months like we did the last eighteen months.

And that's exactly what we've seen in the LFP on switching battery chemistry, right, because when you go beyond a certain limits the market, you just destroying demand. Because the market and alternatives now for a very short break stay with us. So you're saying that there are a number of things that have disrupted the market that frankly, we're fairly unpredictable. And one was around this Russian invasion of the Ukraine. Another one was around COVID containment policy in China.

And another thing that I know that we've not really mentioned much but is definitely actively affecting pretty much all commodities markets and anything moving from place to place, is disruption within the shipping industry due to COVID and movement of you know, things in ways that they weren't moving prior to that. And we're still kind of recovering from that a couple of years on getting ships back to where you know, they previously had been to manage supply

and demand balance. So here we are, we've got these points of disruption. You're mentioning that things are going to start leveling off. That's how I interpret you saying that, you know, the prices have risen, but we're not going to see them rise to the same volume as before. But within that we still are going to see rises, right Like, things are still going to get more expensive exactly.

So in the industry there is something probably like most industries, is something called demand destruction, right And if you recall Ale and I talked about the fact that based on what was happening in the DSc with cobalt and the fact that prices rules overnight to dollars pero metric tone, companies started looking for alternatives. Right, So you destroy a portion of demand, because, look, money has a way of

really making people think beyond their comfort. Zonne. Right, if you are in a business where your commodity put commodity costs champs over a thousand percent in a matter of days or months, you don't just think about where you're gonna look for money to pay that thousand percent in commit You start thinking about what could actually be substituted

for the ex expensive commodity. And we saw that happening in the grid the utility industry, where when copper prices shot up so high you're under certain limit, companies realize we're hold on Actually aluminum doesn't conduct so good as copper. I think you can do the job data, maybe we

can sort of create aluminium lies instead of copper. So that is what could potentially happen if prices rise as rapid as they did the previous man, you destroy demand and companies start looking for alternatives new technologies, new ways of developing batteries, new ways of looking at the supplies, a new deposits that are not reliant on certain countries, and people really start putting on the innovation cup. So I think that's what's going to happen if the trend

keeps going that way. What I can series that I don't think it's in the the supply side interest not to push the ball further. So now I understand why the title of your most recent battery Metals market outlooks that bumpy road ahead. Certainly there's a lot to consider here. Let me just back up and say that, you know, these are fundamental principles within understanding economics that are coming to light. And I don't think I've ever heard so

many people discuss economics so often. How are we integrating information from economics which is, you know, not historically something that we have researched, But we have a team within Bloomer that does how have you integrated this into your research? Because there seems to be an almost seemingly never ending list of variables that is included in your analysis. And

where does one draw the line? So there are two ways we look at it, right from the Dumont side and the supply side, And I think let's start with the Dumont And I like my holiday's data. I do try to go on one holiday. But then since ahead that there is a probability of our recession, I started thinking twice about some of the things that I actually do with my investment. So now I have a secularly

about the various subscriptions I'm on. And I think a lot of companies also start thinking about things this way whenever they are talks about recession or an impending recession. Right, so you realize across board demand begins to decline. But what we've actually seen, particularly in our electric vehicle outlook, is that one of the few industries that could be insulated,

is our view or is electric vehicle industry. Sales of electric vehicles is expected to grow this year and it's expected to grow next year as well, similar to when what we saw during the pandemic, where we thought that demand the struction will impact e V outlook, and it did not. So I think for the demand side, the demand for these battery metals will still remain. What does economic recession and inflation do to supply and that is

where the dynamic, it's quite different. So then I've always I know, I've promised I will take you on the mind one day. If one day I get to do it, there are two days where you would land on the mind. Is that your three most important cost factors. Number one, the diesel you use in your trucks, so you hauld

your large boulders, big rocks with large trucks. And to put it in contest, if you're looking at the Caterpillar seven seven seven, which is a brand new for one of those mega trucks, high loss two high loss right, if you're putting them side by side, the tire of the caterpular truck is bigger than a two high locks. These are more stross equipment you're looking at, and you need barrels of diesel to fill them, to power them.

And to put that in contest again, if you're operating a five hundred thousand olysis capacity gold mine, you will need about a hundred and ten million dollars on your diesel annually. I learned, okay, So that is one. Number two is your electricity bill that you will use to power your smell test and your processing plant. So this is also quite very very important part. So about of your cost is going into the electricity, and the third one is your labor and a cross board for all

these three things, what is happening. We've seen high inflation for diesel or gas depending on where you are. We are seeing high inflation on the electricity builds as well. And finally, also labor cost keeps going and going cost labor but schedually becoming scared. So that is going to be the impact of inflation on the operations of mind right.

And what that means is that even though we have seeing prices elevate and other and people are thinking Minus are cashion, they're probably not because inflation is catching upward costs. And once this happens, you don't have that much money sitting around on your balance sheet to invest in new project,

to invest in new capacity, to invest in growth. So I think the biggest impact that this current inflation crisis would have on MINUS or mining company or companies that supply battery metals is a fact that I'm depending on where you sit, there will be much more capital discipline, just like I have been cutting back on holiday and subscriptions I don't need. Similarly, they would also be cutting back on projects that could have potentially helped us to

meet growing demand. In future, they will have a second look at that. So that would be the impact of inflation on the mind. In terms of a potential recession. We still don't know for set to whatever will happen. What we do know is that it's very unlikely to impact himand in fact, demand is actually going to grow the rest of this decade. So crazy. Where do we go from here? What other questions? These are the things

I wanted to cover. So I remember watching a box on game and it was a gunny and I just fought in Las Vegas, and he was asked the same question and he said, I'm going home. Okay, fair enough, But then I'm just going on. I'm going to spend time to think about a couple of facts. So crazy. You know, as we're looking at this, I think this has been more of a discussion around complexity in the spaces. We're all trying to grapple with what this really means

for the future. We know that demand for electric vehicles is up and right, as many of the charts are, but this is definitely bumpy. This is changing how we think about the for delivery of what the electrification of transport could it could potentially look like. And it's a really important factor as you outlined huge amount of the overall cost in a in an an electric vehicle, because the battery is a huge amount of the overall cost of an electric vehicles. So give me some final things

to think about. What are the main things that I should just keep in the back of my mind as

I'm looking to analyze this space myself going forward. Yes, so number one, I think let's start with the optimistic fans right just so far that demand growth is common that remains from change, and if we look across various scenarios of what the future hosts economically for countries and us from a global perspective, I think that all the electric vehicle or the battery metals demand market is quite insulated and we expected to grow up to about now

we're doing quite a few millions in terms of material demand that could reach about eighteen million metric tons by twenty thirty from the ton batteries alone. Number two, the little market is in a tight balance right like currently there has been delayed investment and delayed production expansion that needs to change. That ship needs to turn and we

need to see a lot more capital. My colleague Albert, who leads our global analysis every year, put other report which looks at the amount of investment going in the energy transition. Unless start with the electric vehicle. Last year, two hundred and seventy billion dollars went into the electric vehicle industry. At the same time, seven billion went into the storage industry. At the minding level, less than one

billion went into direct investment that went into products. So this needs to change if we need to balance the equation between supply and demand. For let's number three, for nicol as well, there are certain things that are beginning to become a concern. Indonesia produces about twent of global nickel's supply, and if you look at Indonesia where we are getting the supply form those corners of the world are places that have one of the most polluting grids,

mostly coal. And all the government is thinking about using hydro electric power as well as other sources of clean energy for these minds and these smeltors, but until then they remain one of the most pollutant And if you think about the fact that the world would depend on nickel and by extension Indonesia's nickel. Something drastic needs to

be done about that. Number four. I've talked about cobalts, and I've talked about the supplies and challenges with ethical issues around and child living the g r C. Inspite of the demand instruction that this has caused and the fact that companies have switched significantly two technologies like LFB, there's only that much that you can switch, right, because

he has this limitation of range. And regardless of that, if you're looking at long range electric vehicles, you still need cobalt inclusive batteries speaking generally right, So we'll still depend on cobalts and demand will ultimately grow when you look at it from the overall market perspective, and as such,

we cannot do our way with the DRC. You've seen quite a number of companies actually move into the DRC to work with our tisanal minors, and I think that that will be the writing to do, where companies partner with these small skilled protests to ensure they do the right things, so we can bring their supply chain into the ethical sources of COBA as well to ensure that

we don't follow over a cliff. But then we do have consistent supplied that would enable us to me demand, and once we do that, prices will be contained and we wouldn't have the adoption of EVI is being delayed. And I think the fifth one, I would sort of deviate from all that I've talked about in our report, and I would say that don't panic. We've talked about turbulence.

But then one thing that I have not talked about yet because obviously it's out of scoope, is the ingenuity of human capability that we've seen quite a number of industries where there are points where you sort of hit the wall, but look, humans, humans, human intelligence, news, no limitation. Out of nowhere, there could be a potential new technology to extract lythium, and there's directly to instraction technology that

a companying Leila is currently trying. Out of nowhere, you could have a different battery chemistry that would go to market within a short period to address some of the supply chain concents. Out of nowhere, we're gonna make a newer mineral deposit who knows in the country like America, Europe, Southeast Asia, South America, which would ease the supply crunch were out of nowhere, we could have most of these

supply chain issues resolved. And also out of nowhere we could have world peace, whether disruption term disruptions that we have seen now would be eliminated, and by then these turbulence that I did talk about, which could actually impasse CV adoption, EV sills and the EV revolution would have been resolved. And I'm pretty sure that we'll get back on track, So don't panic. Well, on that optimistic note, Quaise,

You've certainly given us a lot to think about. I'm not so sure that world pieces on the cards underpinned by the battery metals market, but I do appreciate your very positive outlook on things, but also the fact that you know there's certainly maybe it's the better way to encapsulate. From my end, what you were just saying is, don't panic, but do analysis. And also the innovation is central to not just this industry, but so many industries of the

topics that we cover, and that certainly is true. I mean, the amount of change even just since we started doing this show. It's been a couple of years, not that long, and I have seen so much innovation and convention market over these conversations that we've had and just like you were saying regarding the you know, coldball chart, that you were looking at the change in battery chemistries, it's truly

fascinating to see how things are developing going forward. So on that note, I look forward to having you back on the show to see what has happened in the battery metal space over the next year to a couple of years. And in the meantime, we'll keep producing market outlooks to ponder these and thank you for joining us today. Thank you, and thank you to listeners as well. Today's episode of Switched On was edited by Rex Warner of gray Stoke Media. Bloomberg an e F as a service

provided by Bloomberg Finance LP and its affiliates. This recording does not constitute, nor should it be construed as investment advice, investment recommendations, or recommendation as to an investment or other strategy. Bloomberg ani F should not be considered as information sufficient

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