Episode 9 - Choosing Sides

But we're gonna need a decision for doing your brother because there's a chance that you might not make it out of life. I'm going to ask you a question and I just want you to tell me yes or no. Our lives are filled with thousands of choices that we have to make split second decisions that change the directions of our lives. But sometimes you don't want to choose. Peter and Jay were looking at their lives being taken away no matter what, like in prison or a gunshot. Today.

In that moment, through the crackle of the phone line, speaking to the cartel's top lieutenant, Busico j decided that being taken to prison by the U. S. Marshal's is a face scarier to death. Instead, they risked the potential blood bath of a cartel battle. So I'm gonna ask you a question. Do you a green light for us to go get you? Yes? What's it? Go? Said? I think you're making the right decision. I want you to know something. You see those federal agents they're no different

than you and me. They're ready to die. They're not gonna go out alone when we come. I just know they're gonna try to kill you first. So if you could get one of their guns or something high, run, do whatever you can do it. That was really hard for him to take. I'm sitting right next to them. They have gone with him. He just reminded me, like, this is America. They will tell you. And I said, I understand, you know. I'm being really like, just easy

with my words, not saying too much. And then he said, I want you to know something. You're my friend, he says a man like I respect you and your brother, I admire you. I love you, man, I came to love you. If anything happens, I just want you to know that you have everyone's your respect and don't worry about your family. They're gonna be okay. Dad made me get rid of emotion. He just listened to me be emotional. I literally sat him crave and my brother Peter just

kind of just tap me. He didn't know what was going on, so I said, it's a musical. Listen. You know, I have a couple of debts that I want to pay. He said, look at you. You're in a life and destitutional worried about someone else, worried about yourself right now. I just don't want not to happen to my family. Don't worry. I'll give you my word that nothing that happened to your family. We'll do whatever we have to do. His words meant a lot to me at that time.

I was taking that the bosses were saying that they admire and respected me. That was a big deal to me. M and we said our goodbyes. I hung up the phone. That was gonna be the last card get and I just whispered to my brothers, they're gonna come get us. There's a chance that these doing thing's gonna be happy. He understood. I remember him just like, look at me. It was just like, damn, I know what he remember like this is what our life has become, this is

how our life hands. I'm just thinking of your life as a whole. And I started kind of like, what is my life? This is gonna be my life? That I saw a bunch of drugs and I died in a shootout. Oh wow, he was a great drug dealer. He was a man of his word. And my kids for our father, you know, my wife or her husband. Yeah, and still that at that time, I was like, I'm

as possible, this is what we chose. And everyone well at that time, I think people in that life, we may decide, oh, it's for the money, and you just started digging yourself into this ditch deeper and deeper, and it's for the money, for the money, for the money. By that time, I don't think me my beerly even talked about profits. Yes, it was different for us. It was yeah, I could buy anything I wanted, but everything I wanted I couldn't buy with money will fulfilled me.

I think was I you hadn't make a family. And I think maturing seeing what was like all those other moments where you were like Facebook, life and death, I think you started realizing, Wow, that money wasn't doing nothing for me, them house to them cars. At that time, we're what, we're twenty five years old, believe it or not. I used to think I was old. You know, I had friends passed away whenever, seventeen eighteen. No one ever lasted that long. Either you go to Jarler than to die.

We drove wrong for a little while. They made a stop at a parking lot. Some of the agents got off and they met up with other agents other people, and I could see them kind of like arguing, maybe, you know, hands throwing up in the air and stuff. There's probably sixteen total. There's like four or five i'll be goes suburbans. And they jumping back in the car. And when they jumped back in the car, I knew something wasn't right because they jumped in the car. They

kind of said something. I don't know what they said, and I just heard all the clicks with their grounds in my heart probably kept the beat. And I'm sitting down and one of the agent has he has his air fatigues putting up around the chamber, but he has his handgun under his leg and it's cocked. He has it under his leg right here on my left side, and I'm like, wow, we end up driving. We leave there.

We followed the other veh because there of the agents or whoever the men were that they met with, but they were like kind of well dressed, and we followed up and we started driving two roads. I knew to me we're heading back to the airport. I see that there's vehicles part like, there's vehicles stopped. I see that there's two young guys in uh like utility vests and they have a case and they're standing in the middle street and he sees he sees them. They're holding their

gun and he calls them and I come here. They're waving their hands and he tells them, like turn and they easily turned in and I could feel their attention. I could just be there. And they said, we said to night. I'm able to see. To my right there's like eight are men everyone holding a case Rocky lnswer and they ease the trucks something to the street and one of the agent says, don't make a move. They surround all the vehicles and I'm like, like frightened, fear.

I can't even explain, you just stopped. He just said, don't move, and we stop and they're just like sitting still. All the vehicles and all their are men like come. They start trying to poke in, and they're like telling them like just you know, calm, just calm, all young kids. They have to be most of the one in on. They're probably some of them could barely carry the gun. And I just started looking around. I looked and on

they're just like restaurant canopy. I see that there's two guys standing there and there's a three for like cicargo standing in front of him. I'm on the driver's side. He looks like a kid. Karen a k turns back. He puts in his back and he tells the guy something. I could see him moving him. He has a paper in his hand. He went up to the truck and he says like this, he's not like poincided like here. I guess they was asking him we were in that truck.

He opens the door. The faradies don't want He said, don't move. We're gonna do this the right way. And he tells him you guys in Spanish and he's cursing, like one false move, We're all going to hell. Guys, just sit there. The guy comes and he looks it looks at mean, he's holding the paper I can't see and when he turns it is our wanted picture. M h. And he goes like this, so he thumbs up. He called like, let's go to you and Pete. So I

I have the phone in hand. Peter jumps off and I'm gonna start walking away, and I said hold on one second. And I come back to the door. He's like hold on, like what are you doing? And I'm like, hold on. The mandate was in charge, He's in no frent seat. I said, I'm not gonna need your phone and and I said I'm gonna keep my word. I'm gonna make sure I pay you something. Yeah, And he was like yes, sir, And I reached over and I shook his hand. I shook their head and shook all

five guys that were there, shook their hands. Why did you do that to me? I was taking responsibility for putting myself in this situation. I put their life. Ever they were at home and they get the call like we have these tutures from the US and they coming next to you know, now their life at risk because of doing new job. And it was my way of representing who I was don't worry. I'm gonna take care of your guys. I shook their hands out of respect

to them. It wasn't me trying to be something that wasn't. It was me just being myself, the business man. I was the man that I was like the person I was right, still being nice in the situation that I don't having respect for them in a way, and I tapped on them. I have seen they closed the door. The guy stood there. My brother was in front of me.

We walked up to the stoop right. The two men were staying and they have man bags, are man presses for car one of lam heather a hanging on his shoulder, you know, like they're the ones in charge when they reaches out. He was a lieutenant for that organisation. And then the other guy was Mentor never Ceeo Sguardo Saventes, known as Almno or just Mencho, was a high ranking

member of the Millennial Cartel. Millennial was a part of the Sinelo Federation and they fought side by side against the federation's main rivals, los Zetas in the Cartel War. Mencho's boss a Millennial was a Lobo Valencia. When a Lobo was captured by the Mexican authorities. He was extradited to the US to serve twenty five years in a

federal prison. Millennial fractured and Mencho started the Helisco New Generation cartel known as c J and G. Many thought Menho had handed Our Lobo to the federalies so he could lead his own cartel. Whatever the reason, it worked. C J and G is now considered the most dangerous criminal organization in Mexico, and Mencho himself is one of the most wanted men in the world, with a ten

million dollar bounty on his head. And if you've ever visited or are in Los Angeles, you might have even seen Mencho's face on a few d A billboards around the place. There's even one near Dodgers Stadium. Hey, mental pleasures to find Mitra. Okay, they're good. Yeah that Hey you don't you have a couple people when need to talk to you the handles like Twerey forms. One of them was done the boss at the time. Her name was Lowell Valencia. He was the head of the Millennial

Crata was part of the Federation. Just a smiler group got on the phone kind of quick, thank you, I talked to the Center Sambada and the other form the Center. Zambarda is Maya Zambarda's eldest son. He was one of the most senior members of the cartel and answered directly to the bosses Chapo Mayo and Oltro Beltran. Vicente handled

shipments across South America. He co ordinated corruption with a budget of one million dollars per month, which he used to pay bribes, and he also manipulated people for his father. Vicente was eventually arrested in two thousand and nine and he pled guilty to using private planes, submarines, and speedboats to traffic over billion dollars worth of cocaine and heroin. They didn't have nice things to say. Put it that way. What did I say? First of course was are you okay?

And it's like, what the fuck are you doing that? And it's so weird because to be sent that, he's uh, he was like younger than his father, so he has like that cool I can't slang so every other world like you've done mofuck like and I said, come on, man, I had a lot of day. Let's work this out later. Yeah, And he's like, listen, you have a bunch of people roughed up right here, like you you need to come and and take care of this soon. I'm like, let me get home and we'll get to that. It's weird

because my relationship with him wasn't what people expect. It was a friendly relationship no matter what. It was a friendly relationship, and they treated be kind of like family. Was like it was their family, kind of like they're going to talk to it in a nice way, like it's still in their way, but they're still like family, can ye? Mentors like I have orders our dab is that make sure we get your back on safe. So at this point you're still not safe. So he said,

so the use my should that coming? You see these two guys they bring up, they have a case, they're too dark, one of them chubby in the twenties guys, and said these guys are the guys were going to give for them. They're going to go with them. The US Marshals were only minutes away, and the federalies had to give them something, so they quickly got two random guys to pretend to be j and Pete and put them in a car to be delivered to the U. S. Government.

The federalies were embarrassed, but giving up the wrong people was better than admitting they had to let the real fugitives go. And so they were in the cause that you've just been in the bullet proof cars with the federalies to drive to the U. S. Marshals to kind of like say, oh, we had the wrong guys. It's the sage, right, Yeah, that's coming. It's common practice. Mentor

he was like, do they look like you guys? Said, hell, no, these are ugly motherfucker's Like, you know, I had to make a joke out of it, and then, like I know, I felt bad. I was like, hold on, are you guys okay? He's like, man, I guess what they gave us all a bunch of laqueors so we could get drunk, so they could look like they were party. They give us some coke. It's a good day, mind roots, ten eleven in the morning. But they're about to be sent into the Lions Down. No. I guess they knew. They're

really get to like these are twins? Are gonna be like your your fucking mind, like these are too dark Mexican. Yeah, they're not twins. Nice set. We're gonna take care of the dory. There was one happening. They're drunk and high. They went and dumped in the cars. H I didn't even think twins did put me in another bullet for car with them, it felt a little bit better. And and I guess there's like one of the lieutenants I went with. One of the mentioned lieutenant was a driver

and him an older man. They asked me, where are you staying at It's a thirty five minute forty minute drive. It's a six seven card caravan. Both Cicarios and me, I know there's a military checkpoint going into that park. I'm like worried. I said, is there another way? He said, well, what do you mean we're Dan said, you know, just a military checkpoint. I don't worry about that. Don't worry about that. And sure enough we're coming. They waved them.

They have their guns in their hands, I mean rifles, like literally they waved. We rode by past them. I was shocked because like that, like the military, that doesn't really happen. I don't think. It's a beautiful day here. I am like having the shiftiest day, and it looks so beautiful. They all doubt into the house and they all started getting off with their guns. Valin Viev were anxiously waiting back at the house after the federalities would

let them go free. In the negotiations back at the police station, they had no idea if they'd ever see j and Pete again. The back and forth that Valerie and I were going through on our own, no one's giving us any kind of any news of what's going on with them. I've seen all the trucks and the guys and then they were armed, and it was like, this is you know, it's weird because in one way it was like paradise and the other way it was like, hell,

we're in the most beautiful probably peaches of Mexico. There we are like living through the worst one of the worst moments in our lives. I think that that's like, really, I would say them depending on me of what our lives were before that, that every happy moment, every beautiful moment in our lives, every memorable moment our lives, was overshadowed by a bad moment. You get used to it and then you just wait and then you're like, Okay, well we'll get over this, and you know it'll pass tomorrow.

You know. That's that time that I was telling you Charlie that you know we live on these high moments because that's how I could live, was the high moments that we were going through and the low low moments, and these the turmoil that we would always go through too. It's like, we'll pass through it, We'll get through it, and then you become like you get um M, I could get rid of the Kurt Tel and our story via fairy tale. I come in and Bob was like,

she was upstairs kiss getting her stuff. I was surprised, why if she was still even there. We walked in and she was. They were a shot because you see all these dudes coming in with guns, and I just saw me started crying and we all cried. Then I introduced value to mental. He was sitting there, Yeah, just radio in his hand. He's kind of sitting like really cocky though, on the table, like with his legs opening. He has to raido here and he's playing with the

switch with his gun in his hand. He's like, yeah, I don't want We're gonna leave. You know, we have a federal police coming to West Quarters, back to Galahara. Did that change you after that? Oh? For sure. It made me see what I could be facing, kind of like it was my reality for that time, and now I'm getting a glimpse of what could happen. And that wasn't a good feeling. That was not something that I liked.

What happened to the US Martials and the two guys that were put in your replacement or later, and I did find that they didn't make it. Did you ever give that guy his money? I did? It kind of looked like I did, and we end up giving him like two point five million dollars. Everyone he had anything to do with it, got it, chunk. It was two point five million a lot of money to you at that point. There's money that we considered to be the

cost of doing business. So that's his overhead. The company can't function without the CEOs are micro managing like everything. So you take it as lost. It was what it was. I mean, you prepare for those things. We were at the top, right and I like to see the upper ns of the drug card toss and I was sitting at the table with him. That wasn't just another person. And I would say that at that time, I was proud that's what I did, and when we just had

to change our life. It was all those moms. Things are getting taken for me, things that I'm not willing to give. I'm willing to lose money, I'm not willing to give up what I sacrificed so much for. It was that in all these years, all these things were changing me. Not just that I was going through hardships,

that was maturing. I was under turning to understand like the destruction and everything that was doing to me to a family, and and understanding like my position and how I got there, and trying to understand that what we were doing wasn't the right thing to do. Like and we could sit there all the time and say, oh, yeah, we're I don't do something like I'm proud of I don't hurt anyone, I don't kill anyone. I'm but that

didn't matter. It did make me feel a little bit guilty, you know, Like I did feel at times like I was no different because I was. Actually I felt like I was participating, like now I'm there with them. And I used to think, well before I wasn't it. I remember one day think I was because I was still doing this in Chicago, and I think that goes back to how America perceives the drug trade. I was who I was because of the United States, not because of Mexico.

Some ways, somehow, I guess we all have a part in what's feeling these the violence and how the business works. And I guess that's what I'm here, explaining how the business works, how it trickles down a lot of its politics. It's not just the is this anymore? And I had

to see that. I had to live that fraid to affect me that way, you know, every time I had to go see them, or being those situations where I see people tied up, or I even be you know, around a bunch of armed men making sure that oh you're safe to get from puny to go and b I used to this sing for me, I know, just saying in a movie, this is not making me feel

any better at all. I remember having a conversation with a friend of ours when I Throttle made the truth with the set that he said, my brother just got killed last week. They tortured him and killed them. How do you feel, how do you feel about that? He just like, well, I hurt that I don't have my brother, just I don't have to say, I just have to

fall in line. The ongoing war between Cineloa and Losetas has killed more than double the amount of civilians than died in the entire Middle Eastern conflict since two thousand and seven. The war has been infamously brutal. Beheadings, hangings and indiscriminate murder were a hallmark. Everyone was a target, including children. There were no limits to the evil. People were boiled, killed with acid, cooked in ovens, and even

fed alive to crocodiles. But it was the fracture within the Sineloa cartel that started to cause problems for j and Pete. There adopted cartel family was starting to fall apart. Rumors were swirling that Beltran was teaming up with the enemy Los SETAs, betraying his long term friend and founding partner. At the same time, Chapeau gave Beltran's brother, Alfredo, up to the Mexican authorities. Chapo saw Alfredo as a ability and as a bonus, he was able to negotiate a

deal for the release of his son from prison. The Chapo Beltram breakup mc connage was about to follow. For everyone involved, We're being put in a tough situation. Well, we're gonna have to like really choose a side of the cartel that we're going to be loyal to, and by doing that, you're gonna create a home enemy. All those moments lead up to those that big decisions to say, I gotta stop this, and I'm tired of that, you know, hurting the people you love, like having them live in fear.

And I lived in fear unselfishly. That's when Peter asked me, like, really, I mean, we've been married a while already, and he asked me if I want to leave, Like, if this is there's the life that I want to live with him. I didn't let her answer, he didn't let me answer. I obviously I know what I wanted. I mean because if I didn't know what I wanted, I would have

left a long time ago. I've had millions of reasons to leave, and not because he wasn't a good husband to me, not because he was a perfect husband to me, but all the signs were there, they were like flashing in my face. I knew what I wanted, but I just listened to him very patiently and gave him my answer. And you know, I stopped taking my birth control pills,

and then I was like pregnant. So everything that I did want that day, everything that when we're sitting there and and um handcuffed together, and everything that I regret, I feel like I was I was giving that chance. I felt like my decision was it wasn't well worth it. And I feel like Peter's every decision that he made since he was seventeen years old that I suffered the

consequences still today. A good husband Maybe would be different in somebody else's eyes, but to me, that's all that matters. That he's a great husband to me, a good husband. It was a guilt that I carried, carried with me and yours hazardous to me, to her, to our future, to our marriage, to everything, and I had to do something about it. There was a time where I mean brother, did think that I could easily became one of them.

Is it kind of surreal because as a kid, as a kid, you probably knew who Chopital was right when you were younger maybe, and then you were like, hang on, I am these are my idols, no question their my idols. That once I was there, I did think like, wow, I'm idolizing men. They're no different. We need no different. There are men they're like me, they read they they're nothing special. Did you see yourself as like a drug lord kinkpin, because that's how they always get described. I

didn't see myself as I never seen myself. I never seen myself as the way I'm talking about myself now. It was just everything building up since I guess our younger days, since we were kids. And there are so many, all these traumatical experiences that happened. And I know firsthand what they say about that life, about the life m

Selling drugs leads to prison for death sometimes both. And I kind of knew that something was on the horizon, like the tensions, the talking about this and talking about that. And around that time, they had said certain rules. They wanted to keep the price of a kilo. They wanted to keep the price of drugs at a certain price. They wanted to keep it a certain number. For instance, in the beginning of kilo or cocaine, you could buy a killo cocaine in Mexico City for eight thous and

could have gone it will cost you nine dollars. So as you're moving north to kilo becomes more expensive. Even in Mexico, and same for the States and the war that was happening against the set that was costing a lot of money. And you know, we sat down just said it doesn't make any sense. Wars are expensive, and I mean really expensive. Just so people don't realize this, my resation month, my overhead was five hundred thousand dollars a month. What you're ready of the head was half

a million, half a million dollars a month. So even to break even you had to make five. Was that a lot of money? I see that a lot of money? Did you see that as a lot of five? No? To me, it wasn't a lot of money. When it came to invest in back and making sure that product was safe and that we're the best case scenario. If I walked away with you know, ten percent of profit, then to me, it was worth it five hundred anywhere

from five of our profits. To me, it's like I always looked at what I was making, even if it took thirty of what I was making whatever. When it came to our organization and our infrastructure, that we did never ever took a shortcut, you know, like if I was gonna buy semi trucks, I'll be like, get me five brand new topic trucks and we're paying cash. Whatever the case it was, it was not going to be you know, I was not going to take it to

a short cut. I was gonna make sure that we had the best equipment and the best workers and everyone got paid well so that no one had to actually ever kind of betray us or think differently. So the wall was brewing almost hadn't happened at that time. Yes, what we your choice is at that time, my choice was to keep going and pick a side. And because you knew that you would inevitably have to pick a side. Yes, for sure, I knew that was coming. And you couldn't

go back to Chicago. I'm fusure if I wanted to in America. You know, we thought about going to another country. Yes, for sure, we kind of pleted that, you know a few times, like did you think about on the extraside of a country working at Costa Rica, we were pushing Spain at that time. Getting there wasn't the problem. It's just in Mexico. I was comfortable and we have a background. I could say this is what we do, and you have that ability to like maneuver and kind of blend

in a little bit. I know the language and all the culture. Then by that time I was protected, right, I already had escaped from being captured at one time. I didn't want to go to another country have to deal with it. But I always said, like I'm simple, I could. I'd rather be lacked in a house by a nice house right then left in prison. But that came with a price. It meant that I was gonna

have to break away from my family. My wife don't have to break away from her media family, because I wasn't gonna take a chance for the FATS to find out that I'm a country where they could just go out and be like, hey, surprise, I'm here. Yes, they could easily get you in Spain because you were you weren't protected, and I'm one of those countries Canada or whatever the cases. That wasn't gonna solve what I wanted to do. That wasn't solve what was in my heart

for my family, you know, like a normal life. And it was really getting to me. I you know, my son was born. My son would always want to be with me, and he loved playing with cars, and he just say, I got caught up on the phone or something, he will start playing with. My workers were my security, and there they are holding a rifle back in that was in the back and forth with a massive rifle.

That wasn't what I wanted for my kids. Like I did that me running was wasn't gonna take away from the hurt and the wrong I was actually doing to my family. I saw myself like, here has no idea. You know, a year old I saw like that that I thought about my life. How you got accustom to certain things I used to think about me. That's what my family or you're not gonna do this. You could learn, you could be good at it, but you're not gonna do this. It's the perstanges. So there's options. And I

did believe that at that time. I started going with this nose and always say like, yeah, all good things are difficult. All those good things are going to take some sacrifice. The easy to oh it's easy, don't go to work. It's easy to stay home, but that's not right thing to do. Right. The impending cartel war meant that everyone was on high alert, and it wasn't just Pete and j who were at risk of being caught

up in choosing a side. Val and Viev might have joined the twins willingly, but just like the twins themselves, their children will be born into our life. They didn't choose JM. Val already had a one year old and they had another on the way. Pete and Viev were pregnant for the first time. And do we call options? Always thinking of options, and me and my brother did

this a lot. He'll be like, this is what we need and just you know, in the business, we're always I think we made a successful that we were always looking for the next thing. We didn't set up. We didn't say, okay, listen to it. I know I needed like some type of solution for what was coming. I remember my brother and me thinking like wow, by talking one time, it's gonna get really rough. Both our words are pregnant. Now I remember, like, it's gonna get rough,

Like it's not. I don't think it's even safe for them to be here anymore, like us being scared, like nervous, like tell them that while they're pregnant, they need our support. We're scared of telling them that we didn't think there was a good idea for them to be with US at the time. I got people in Colombia at the time, just in case we're doing business that I gotta keep up with them. I got people in Mexico City, I got people that are working Wallahara, I got people in

I got people in Harsh. I have people in Mexicaligue, l A, Chicago, Ohio, Detroit, New York that I you know, how to be responsible for on a daily basis. It takes a lot, It will take a lot of work. So that have people with me. There's the people for

that work, real organization. There's there's like then we have associate set that we're doing business, like somebody might be doing this for me in you meet them, you're talking to So I have twenty people every day on a daily basis, depending on in some way somehow for even the smallest things, like right around that time, I would promise a wow that would like rub her feet everything before she went to bed, And sometimes I could be right there with her, but like we're not really talking.

She's in my presence, but two different lives. I remember burn my feet and you know I'm getting phone cause I had just lost a million dollars in New York that day. But a seizure. And I think it was my brother calling me and I have our speaker because i'm massage. I'm haven't a speaker, Like, so, how much did we lose? How much wasn't I think it was like ten or close to ten. And he's like, damn that sucks, Like, well, okay, well let's see what happens.

Just to keep in posting, like okay, you know she's getting massage, like her belly big and sick. Baby, did I just say, as you said that you lost ten what like ten thousand? And I'm like, no, ten million and chicken, you're fucking massage in my feet. It's okay for you, it's okay. I don't even worry about it. No, no, and then it's okay. That was life for us. To us, it was just the business, and you know her as more was the people who were losing, those people that

were associated that hurt us. But it was just I guess the business, right h At that time, I was living in the city. Well, how we're kind of more by ourselves, me and we are by ourselves. And val had actually will travel back to Chicago once a month for like a week or ten days it'll give me in Tommy, my best friend, chance to kind of like

just we just hang out. I was watching TV and this documentary came out about John Gotti in the MOFILM, and I was translating it for Tommy basically talking about

the case, so I was translated for him. It basically talked about Sammy the Boost case and John got it their history, and it just said that, you know, Sammy the book had received five years for nineteen murders first corporation against Jang Gaddi, and you know at that time, I mean I already knew of the story, but this was kind of going in debt about details and how they kind of got to the point of the investigation.

So us it was like not a big deal, I guess right, but I'm sure that for the eight years or from New York, but whatever. At the time, it was a big deal to them. And I remember thinking to myself, Wow, yeah, five years for covering against Siang Gaddi. In my head, I was like, who the fuck is Joan Gaddi. John Gotti was the boss of the Gambino crime family in New York. He was known as one of the most dangerous and powerful crime bosses in the US.

Gotti was the original tef London. No one could get a conviction to stick until his whitehamed man Sammy the Ball, cooperated with the FBI to help put Gotti behind bars. Sammy the Ball confessed to nineteen murders but received a five year prison sentence because of his cooperation. The people we were dealing with, I felt like I was living John got his whole life. Each day kind of left this like imprinting me like wow, it was an idea. I'm saying this today because I do recall that moment.

I want to tell you that I kind of thought about it, maybe not cooperating, but the difference between John Gotti, who was John gott It to the mob and who was Chapel to the world, I guess, or who was Miles and about that to the world, you're kind of away those things go. It was, Oh, he was such an important criminal figure in New York City, whereas Chapin was Willed Whige, Drew King Finn. I mean, I think

there's seventies six countries that the organization was in. Kind of left that I thought in my head I would get to badly that time time I was sleepy one day, I guess my mind would always be racing. I woke up in the middle of night and I too call it in epiphany. It was this moment of just clarity, I could cooperate and came past. I could co operation, I could do some time, and I could just have a different life. I could get out. I could just leave this. I remember looking over about like then it

just hit me, like brought me back to out. It like calling the funk down. Hold on, hold on, you just said something really stupid. And I remember I always talked to God. I always said, like this came to me for a reason, and I was trying to think about all the stupid decisions I made that I had thought about and the reason why I was scared to talk about because she had this, you know that said she could have had hate at times, and she did not like snuches at all. Today she's a different woman.

I think she's at peace. At that time, I guess just from her being in the business and her everything been through. She didn't like stitches and I knew how she felt, so I felt I different, like, uh, a little bit less of a man. Just don't even think about that. But I'm like sitting here, like thinking, would I tell her, Like, how do I even know if this is a good idea? I can't even say it. She was gonna be my filter. She was gonna be like, let me tell her first, because he's like, could trust

her that she would be honest. We probably go to my brother, who I knew it was gonna be a problem. I woke up, I felt good, just like energy, not until like I came back to that like a little bit. I thought about what I was gonna say, what Peter was gonna say her. Then you almost like talk to yourself that it was, Oh no, it stepidst idea. Yeah, but I saw her and I just I remember just seeing her and seeing my son. He's in his crew at the time. I know this is the thing to do,

but I'm always open to me the wrong. Maybe someone could tell me something better. I just couldn't sleep after that, and I still remember throughout the day like I felt like I was keeping something from her. The next night, she's sleeping, I have to tell her. But I had planned to get her right in the middle by she sleeping, so she was calm, and I'm like, I could be ruining her stay. She could be so mad and then

I forget it. But right when she was calm, where she was gonna hopefully just take it in you know, the right way. I know, just you know, like baby b because she didn't. She was heavy sleeper, so like she finally together like hey, why what what's wrong? I was like, I need to talk to you. What let's say. It's important, it's really important. She's turned like, yeah, what's wrong? You know? I started off like I do this a lot. I want to tell you something. It's just an idea,

but please don't be mad. Just don't be mad, just think about it, or just just don't be mad, just tell me, respond to me in a nice way, just tell me no, or just don't be upset. Could you just promise me you won't be all set? And she looks a little bit like nervous. She's thinking, what the hell did you do? Right? She's like, NA, like, I won't be mad, but tell me, I like, you prom is you're not gonna be upset, You're not gonna look at me a certain way. And she's like, no, that

you could trust me to tell me? And they said, you know how I promised you that would change my Life's like, yes, what if I told you I have the answer? And she's like, what do you mean? I said, what if I told you I had the answer? How I could change my life? But we could have a different life. It's just like, yeah, I'm lost. And I repeated, like, what if I told you I had the answer but it was gonna take some type of sacrifice, but we could have a different life for our kids. What would

you say? I would say, let's do it right, just hold that thought. It will take a big sacrifice. I mean, okay, I tell me your said, I hope this doesn't change of relationship. Just no, I won't. Just let me know. And I said, what if we were to cooperate? Did she give us? She said what? My heart? I mean, I'm nervous, Like and I'm thinking, was that what? Like I didn't understand you because I could have just been shired. I said, what if we cooperate? Like what do you mean?

I said, like, what if? And he reached out to the said and we cooperate? It was like, you're crazy, like, just what if? What if we co operate? If Sam in the book Five Years Who seven book got five years. What if we were to turn in the top all on my one of them. I think we would have to do some prison time, but we'll have a chance to change your life. And she just stood there staring at me, and I'm coming up with this just at

that moment. I didn't think about it that far. I'm just the first basic was I didn't expect her to be like, how already got that? And she's quiet and she's just tearing me, and then she just started crying. She said, do it. That's what Chan did, though. She said, but what are you gonna do about your brother? I said, I'm gonna have to do prison time. She's like, how long do you think? I said, I'm not sure, and she said how much does the same we get. I

said five years. She's like, oh, well, you would get less than that. And I'm like, wow, I don't know. But I said, let's just be realistic. Say we get ten years, and you know, i'd have to do it and have for a good time if I could get a couple programs out. I'm being really positive too, Okay, I'd have to do like seven years. Seven years I'll take and we'll be out. And she's like seven years. I said, listen, your average parents goes to work, and I started to calculate, wrap my phone up, have a

calculate in it. They were four hours a week. Starts doing this calculation, and I'm thinking that they're averaging maybe spending four hours a day with their kid on the week days and then you know on the weekends they have four days, you know, but any time for themselves, Like, we're not that far off all the time we could spend with our kids in the process. And she's just like ten years. I'm just saying worst case, and she's like, do it. I was blind about what I wanted to do.

That it kept me like from seeing anything that I think would make me think twice or make me reconsider. I didn't think about the money. I didn't think about anything else, put about changing my life. I do remember like me about talking about a little bit more. You know, when I think of something that I have an idea of people who do know me, I get excited. I get like anti like I wanted to get to it.

So I would like talked about about different things, you know, all the days, just no matter what I was doing, I was like going back to that God, and I did feel a lot like I felt really loved. I think that's what I was always looking for in the way that I was receiving that love from violence. I remember just like I would see her, I would look at her like I was happy, but then I'd be

nervous thinking about my brother. I don't remember thinking about anything else, you know, I was just thinking about that. I was looking for a good time to tell my brother too. Days later I wanted to. It was within that week or so, We're gonna go to a business meeting, you know. We're talking and said, hey, Peter, like I need to talk to about something. But you can't be bad. What do you mean you can, I said, I want to say something to you. I want to just give

me an idea. But if you don't like it, just just don't be mad, you know, just hear me out. He already tell me, I said, you're not gonna be mad, and he will always like get mad at that just sucking. Tell me, what the fun did you do? I said, no, listen to an idea, all right. Tell me. I was nervous. I was really nervous. My heart is like I feel like it's shrinking, like I'm like, we know what's coming. I think we have a chance, like we could get out this life. And he's like, oh, how how is that?

Don't be mad? He said, fucking tell me a ready, And what if we would cooperate? He said what I said, what if we were to cooperate? I couldn't even finish saying the last one when he was like, you was stupid. Motherfucker just started screaming, yelling, and and I'm like, y'll calm down, like you don't want the fucker like we just end up just we're too closer, so that we started to get physical, started kind of throwing each other like you're stupid, but you know, like literally throwing each

other against the wall, like you dumb motherfucker. What'd you fucking ever say that? Again? Is stupid buck? Everything you could think of, and I just took it. I felt defeated. I went from still be nervous, but think about it. I felt like I had just invented something new, right like my ventions someone just as it sucks, right Like I felt defeated. I wasn't even mad, like I felt

like I was letting him let his anger come on. Remember, I just kind of like stepped away, like you'll just calmed down, all right, just chill, and he was just like look at me, mad, like stupid ass, like everything you could think of it. And I didn't really to see him. I don't remember feel like why does he get that decision? Because at that time I was like always coming up with different ideas. And but then I said, oh, I argue went so well, he's right. We didn't make

this decision together to come into the hurt. It couldn't hurt me a couple of days past life, I remember thought him looking at it, We're making millions of balls of month. Everything's going good. Don't suck this up, all right? I could tell that he already down. I was already making him up. Mike and bulls boy, remember my brother is that well there was his mindset that where he was making that decision doing they could affect everything else.

Like that was the main issue that was bothering me when I wanted to choke him up with like broth, do listen to what you're willing to understand. And I still not only that, I said the satisfy that we looked alike. I would, but it looks like mine he has a rally of reason. He has a valid reason, valid valid he has read it. We look alike. They don't know who the right, They don't nothing. But basically, no matter what, they didn't see us. That's two they

saw his once. And what was I thinking? It's kind of like in having my brother as you know, as my overprotective brother of course, and then having him as a business partner, and we're so intertwining through our life with each other and in so many ways obviously we're twins, but I just feel a little bit like, wow, I can't even make the decision for my family. We're a package deal regardless if we don't agree on many things, I mean, a big decision like that, we have to agree.

It has to work for both of us. How was it? We didn't talk about it. We actually it didn't happen. I could tell he still had like a little anger, and I want to maybe a week, ten days later, twelve days later. It was a while. My form rang wenday with the weekday day and night like twue morning and like hell, and it was hello. He's just like, how would we do it? Surviving l Chapo The twins who brought down a drug Lord is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and me Charlie Webster. Our producers are

myself alongside Jackson mcclennan. Research and editorial support is from Casey Hurtz. Edit and sound designed by Nico Palella. Original score by Ryan Sorenson. Executive produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and myself Charlie Webster. If you'd like to know more about this story, head over to lions Gate Sound dot com. Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a lions Gate Sound and G unit audio production exclusively for a Heart podcast.

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