I think there's something weird or.
Supernatural about twins, and you know, I can't even explain it.
But I remember the first time.
The government came to prepped me for the Chapel trial.
You have like, how many languages do you speak? And I said three, and they're like okay.
English, Spanish, and the third one like twin and they're like okay, I said, because I realized over the years of my brother and I had like especially way to communicate. And you notice it more when you were apart, because I couldn't communicate with others as well as I did with him, because him and I shared so much together, so many in the same experiences in life and the day to.
Day activities that he understood. I was saying thing without me say much.
Hey, it's fifty and I'm Charlie Webster. This is surviving El Chapel, the Twins who brought down a drug lord Season two.
L Chapel's escape was so much bigger than the Florist Twins.
It was labeled a national embarrassment to Mexico and the then president and U. K.
Penyonieto.
He and his government were already out of favor due to increasing allegations of corruption and violence.
El Chapel escaping mint that it got real between the US and Mexico, especially as the US had been pushing for El Chapel's extradition for exactly this reason. It was a symbol of deep corruption in Mexico.
At the same time, locals in Sinaloa were optimistic. News of El Chapo's return prompted parties and celebratory gunfire. While El Chapo had been in prison, his son Ivan Archivaldo had been running the cartel. Locals felt he was too unstable and El Chapo's return would bring back order to the region. He was already viewed by many as a Robin Hood figure. Almost immediately, the Mexican government put out a three point eight million dollar reward for information leading to El Chapo's capture.
Three months later, El Chapo met with Sean Pinn for that Rolling Stones in Tea, you know exactly the one I'm talking about. El Chapel's return strengthen this cartel's power. He was known as the internal future for the Florist Twins. Even more uncertainty, he thought El Chapo would never be caught again.
I cannot believe he actually pulls that off, you know, And I think that that alone probably.
Have the cartel like in uh situational power, you know.
I think that that is cable is bigger than just him escaping and fill the cartel when it should have been on its way out, it had just you know a little more forced to it. You tend to feel like that that's the team you want to be with.
When they get away with things like that.
Did it make you question what team you were on in not in that merriment na month.
I mean, I'm gonna tell you something. I would say I was impressed. I mean, but no, he's on the losing side. Everyone who's in that life is on the losing side. I don't care who you are. I don't care how many people you have with. It's the only a matter of time.
Were you considered by him escaping and the continuous power of the cartel, but it made it more dangerous for you and your family?
Were they more likely to come after you? Then?
Yeah? Of course, of course they're still like real strong.
But then sometimes I would think that would be scary if they were, if you thought they were gone, if you thought they didn't exist, I think it would be worse because sometimes they exist like if you thought they
lost their power and they just were completely superior. I think that's what happened, like in Columbia, Like Okay, they didn't have popular school war anymore, but that doesn't mean that they weren't people as powerful as him or with that kind of you know, controlling power, like in place you know where maybe it was a lot more people, but they were still there everything. When they're like hiding in the shadows, it's kind of scary for me, you know,
to think that us. It's kind of you're that sense of security, all sense of security, you think like, Okay, they're gone.
For me, I'm the same person like they're not gone. I know they're not gonna. I know they're there.
At that point, there's one thing I need for sure, that the Mexican government was gonna be like, you know, America, you know, USA, do whatever you want to catch this guy like Retir. And from a business perspective, me being in the drug business and me still have been down there at that time, I would have been like, yeah, Li's set him up because he's causing too much shrug, Like the whole this whole drug business doesn't revolve around
one person. It's not all about Chop or all about my there's it's a big, you know, community of people that it takes to keep this going. And and he was just would be a person that was just creating too many problems.
Do you get the impression right that the way it's publicized is if Chapa is the.
God and that controls everything.
I mean, he's a major figure, you know, but there's a lot of people in this business. But you know, like another thing that where I feel like like my brother and I like knowing him in a different level and not just like you know, the more personal level that I've seen him being like, I've seen his flaws, you know, I've seen things that I disagree with, the things I didn't like, and like to imagine again that
people died every time they were chasing him around. You know, he left ran away and people were left there to fight from and die, you know.
And then the thing like, you know, many.
People during those six months he was free, how I mean, people probably lost their lives protecting him while he's invading law enforcement.
Then he gets.
Caught on January eighth, twenty sixteen, tipped off in parts after a large order of Tacos Mexican naval marines surrounded a house in Los Mitos, on the coast of Sineloa.
They've been scoping out the house for a while.
Phone interceptions suggested someone high up in the cartel was coming. In the early hours of the morning, a huge gunfight broke out as the marines entered the house. Five of el proposed men were killed in the gunfight, as well as one marine. When they finally entered the house, El Chapo had once again vanished. He had two tunnels built into the house, one a decoy tunnel under the fridge designed to confuse officials, the other behind a mirror.
This was the one he fled through.
It was almost the same length as the tunnel he escaped from prison. In The tunnel behind the mirror led to a street right near a walmart. El Chapo was with his most ruthless assassin, Ivancholo, was simply Elchollo. The two of them stole a taxi at gunpoint and sped away. The cab driver flagged down another cabby to radio that he'd been carjacked. The Mexican authorities were listening. El Chapo and Elchollo decided to ditch the car to avoid capture.
At the next traffic light, they approached a red Ford focus inside an elderly woman, her daughter, and five year old grandson. Achollo pulled out his weapon and forced them out of the car, but not before giving the woman her purse. He and Chappo got in, but by that time the authorities had caught up in a literal Mexican standoff.
El Chapo told the police that they would all die.
The cartel was readying a small army of forty assassins to rescue him. The police took Al Chapo to a local motel, the Hotel d'Eu, to wait for backup. The Hotel duh is not just any old motel. It's a sex motel which could be rented at the cost of three hundred paysos sixteen US dollars for six hours. There's a famous photo online that you can look at of a very filthy El Chapo sitting handcuffed on beige satin
sheets in room fifty one. El Chapo desperately tried to bribe the police to let him go, but it was too late. Back up arrived and he was taken by helicopter to Mexico City President Nieto tweeted, mission accomplished.
We got him.
He gets re arrested January eighth or whatever.
And yet like within a week, the governments at my prison facility and I'm signing the extradition papers.
Capital was.
That was a real like like shocking, you know, moment to be signing those papers.
You know, we hear like.
We hear a bar capone and you have those bad guys like pom Pobscawachapo was.
It was like that moment you know in history.
That I never thought I would be a part of the call.
That heat recorded of al Chappo was the key piece of evidence that the US government was using to convict l Chapo. So Pete had to be the one to sign the extradition papers.
For certain people in that case, like Chapo was byd Once they're arrested, they they put a package together, you know together. You know, the American government would requests or formally requests extradition of a of a person, and the Office of External Affairs will handle most of that process. So you submit certain papers like evidence that they.
Have and and sometimes they want to know, they want to know something, they want to ask a couple of questions about you know, you're basically your testimony, right, you know, just I guess, just to do their due diligence, and before they extradized someone that that you know, they have enough sufficient evidence, you know, to request them.
For the US to seek the extradition of someone from abroad, they have to put in a formal request supported by sufficient and certified evidence that a crime has been committed. So when did you find out that you've got to stand up and testify against him?
He went to Torown November twenty eighteen. It was just right before exactly a year to the date, like like November twenty seventeen. They came to see me in just as a kind of a pre interview of how I felt about testifying and was I going to be able to be a good witness.
So they come to see you as in the prison and then yes, you then like, how's it work?
Yeah, they comes to my attorney was present, the Chicago officers, president, a prosecutor, Agentine, and here comes a team to the New York team.
There's like eight of 'em, eight prosecutors.
Why is it in like a special read more?
Yeah, it's like it's actually our visiting room sort our visit room.
They come in.
And and you walk into the hun there's like all these people there and you're just like, it's so awkward.
And introduce themselves and can't tell you what they're there for.
I just just wanna go over some of the things about my case and ask your questions, you know, like random questions, like I tell you, I'll never forget that.
She asks me, so, how many languages do you speak?
I would say I'm fluent in English, Spanish, and twin. The prosecutor look at me, like, what do you mean. I'm like, oh, my brother and I we have a special way to communicate.
With each other.
Right.
That was US attorney Andrea Goldborg asking Pete what languages he speaks, English, Spanish and twin. If you remember, back in episode four, Jay talked about having to relearn how to communicate after being separated for the first time from his identical twin brother Pete. Twin talk is actually not uncommon. It's called cryptophasia, a form of autonomous language, and happens in up to forty percent of all twins. While the siblings caldn't understand each other, just fine, no one else
will have any idea what they're talking about. In the prison visiting room, Pete was surrounded by the team of attorneys the government had assembled for the El Chapo case. Pete worked closely with assistant US attorneys Andrew Goldbarg and Adam Fels, both known and celebrator for taking down some of the world's most renowned drug lords and terrorists, including Colombian kingpins Fan Carlos Ramirez and Al Loco.
I was fortunate, you know, to have been chosen to work with Adam Fellas.
Yeah, all my respect.
He was like super intelligent, you know, it's so made me feel comfortable, you know, patient with me.
He understood my situation. He was like the.
Prosecutor was in charge of like my peppery mean, he was gonna be the one question in me talent to people like you could touch and talking to him out They're like they're like they sent the best m h.
He was the one on the recording of the phone call with Chapo, so he was the only one who would need to testify. He spent a year prepping for the trial, primarily with Adam Fels. Each month, the team would stop by and go over the details of the case and what Pete was going to say. They did mock trials and did as much as they could to
prepare Pete for potential cross examination from el Chapo's attorneys. Finally, as Christmas of twenty eighteen approached, Pete had to make his way across the country to el Chapo's trial in New York.
The last time I seen the prosecutors in my prison, they're like, Okay, next time I'll see you will be you know, New York. That's nerve working to feel that the reality of it against kind of step in and I'm like constantly anxious, like it brought so much like stressed me and it shouldn't have, but he did. I can't sleep, I can't I think, I can't not hungry, I'm not you know, ain't about it every day.
Like what do you think drove that overwhelming feeling? Do you think it was the anticipation and anxiety, the fear.
Like everything and everything all into one, like just everything like like those feelings and like of course like cleaning with my own emotions, like thinking about even my dad, like like this is the biggest form of mentioning you could do.
You know, did his words come in your hat.
Of course, a lot of people cooperate, and you know, they never see a court room, you know, and I thought that was going to be the case. And it was so nervous, and I remember them finally kind of telling me, like get ready that morning.
It's like seven in the morning. They get ready.
I told you this, did they come and.
The staff comes and told you, like get.
Ready, and the phones are off and they do, you know, certain things for security, so they don't come to like ninth. Those hours were like.
I gotta come out torture. What were you doing like pasting?
Yeah, Patian, just you know, and they come up and pull it through bees and they shackle you and they put you in the back of a armored vehicle with the windows covered, and they always pick like a nearby like airfield, so you know, on the road for a
long period of time. And then they pull you up to the private jet and there's more agents that are waiting for your marshals, marshall agents trying in charge of your protection, and we cram up, We all cramb up into the little chat and it was the most uncomfortable five and anine a half hours, like like sitting there like unable like to stretch my fear anything, and being sick to my stomach, you know, like nervous just thinking about what's to come, thinking about my family, make so
many emotions.
Were you like shoulders to shoulder with.
The yeah with that end, and you know, one in front of me is his feet offstairs down in front of me. I can't even you know, sit comfortable, and I'm shackled, so it makes it a lot more uncomfortable. They usually give you, like, you know, some street clothes like to travel because you know, the pilot doesn't know who you are. You know, no one knows who you are. And I'm just like.
In some regular sweats.
There's this long ride and we find to somewhere like Connecticut or something, and then we have a long riding traffic and I'm shackled by listen like I'm already tired of sitting and my back hurts, and I'm anxious and I'm worried, and I'm sick to my stomach, and I have an ate and they're playing like the just awful classic music. I can't look out the window, you know, and it's making it's felt like torture, like I should
have got time off. Just just sitting in the back of that try, I felt like I told him, I said, I need to tell you guys something.
I said. The rider took what the kidnappers was better than this. They just left on me. It just you know, I think the stress was already kind of built up.
How many do you reckon we're in that convoy in that.
Kind of probably twelve at least martials And then you get there, I'm like, where are they going to put me? And then, you know, every prisoner understands what it is to be transferred from prison to prison into another unit or whatever.
You're like, you're going straight to the whole, you know. So I thought about that, You're going to share to the whole?
And is that what happened every time then? Anywhere?
Yeah? Most of the time. Yeah.
So there are a.
Few different reasons you might end up in solitary confinements, or as Pete refers to.
It as the shoe or the hole.
Disciplinary reasons is just one of them. Often prisoners are temporarily put in solitary confinement for administrative reasons, for protection, or while being transferred.
That's why Pete ended up in solitary a lot.
Pete was taken to MCC New York, the same prison Jay was taken to when the twins were first separated because of the billboards. If you remember, he described it as the worst place and told us that prisoners prepared the food, adding a couple of dead roachors for flavor. It's where Jeffrey Epstein was held, and as Pete arrived, it also happened to be where El Chapo was being held.
So we going on.
They put in I'm not sure where I'm at, but they're walking on these long hallways and it's dirty and ugly, and they come into the receiving area of the MCC. I remember the Marshall came up to the glass window of MCC New York here and he's like bangs like on the windows. They have like a sliding bulletproof plast store and it's like almost like a drive through kind like that can help you.
And then.
There's a woman there, a short like Latin like woman Puerto Rican or something, and she purses his ass out like what the fuck do you want? What the fuck give me your ID like talk something like that. I'm like, I'm in New York. That's for sure, you know what I'm saying. Like I'm in New York and they pull you in and you get that, you know, the mcc uniform.
Mcc uniform just like blue guarb, like no pants, pull shirt, and there's a box with like prison clothes, you know, like when you go out, they'll put your stuff in a box and you got to get fresh clothes in fresh clothes, you know, press clothed you leave out and they'll clothes you come in. You can't take what they'll give you those he left behind, you know, for security reasons. They want to you know, which closer or whatever. And they're like a cubicles like like like locker cuba open.
Just open a little square shelving and things.
Like that and like yeah, kind of square shovels against the wall.
And I'm like, we'll flow chop one. They're like, that's his clothes right there. And I was like that felt weird to see if because they put mine right next to him, you know, like we're probably the same size.
Oh my god, that must have felt so strange.
That was weird, Like you have to know, like, man, we're in the same building. I think that's weird.
Did it feel kind of more reopen, you like.
But then his clothes, Yeah, I mean, of course it didn't feel like not only they're his clothes, that means that he's right in the same building with me.
It brings back that little anxiety a little bit.
It's such a you know things feeling that overcomes you, that you feel you feel over and over and over. They walked me down, they moved me through the building, and I kind of get the feeling like I'm going to the the special unit in MCAC, like the.
Winsick unit, and that at least it was a little bit better than the shoe.
And you know, there's a couple of people that I already knew that was in another prison was before, and a couple of people that knew my brother. It makes it less kind of like awkward, you know. And they put you in the CEW and they put me with uself with someone else familiarly with. Yeah, so someone I knew from prison. Yeah, he was a he was a terrorist and he was accused of terrorism then and he was going to get sentenced.
Turns out, for the first time, Pete didn't end up in solitary as part of his transfer. Instead, he ended up cell mates with a terrorist, Abdul Rahman Albana. Sawi pled guilty to planning a major terrorist attack on New York City. He said he aspired to create the next nine to eleven by bombing Times Square, the New York City subway system, and shooting people at concerts. He was sentenced to forty years in prison. The day Pete went to testify against al Chapo.
That very morning, I have a legal visit at MCC and my attorney's there and the prosecutors are there and we're kind of going through everything again. Yeah, I hear him talking then. For that was like the last time I wasn't get to see my attorney because they're going to move me to like their safe house where I was going to continue that the de briefing, you know,
and the prep just very stressful. That Saturday, they come and they get me ready and they the Marshalls like take me to the safe house where I'm meeting the prosecutors and the agents and we're doing the prepping, going over stuff, and I remember like one of those moments.
Like we touched you know a lot of them, like little moments.
That really like you know, the hurt to talk about stuff of them, my dad, stuff of them, my brother, And were they asking you those things? Yeah, they're like, look, man, this conversation come up about your dad. Yeah, like they might come up, like we we just got to walk you through it because they're gonna come up there.
Like if I was them, I could use this, you know.
And so they were trying to cover every single thing that might come up and try and make sure you preparetriol.
And they were good at that.
Like I like to teach that travel had great lawyers, but I think they had the government had better ones. I remember like that Sunday. It was like like Pete, the next time I see, it's gonna be in the courtroom. And I was like, no, no way, Like I don't think I can't do this, Like you got this thing for me, Like I can't do this.
I don't think I can help you. And then like you got it.
Man, you're gonna do. You're gonna be good, just going in, just tell the truth and you're gonna be fine. And the things you you did, you didn't And they're embarrassing to me though, you know they are.
I didn't sleep Someday night. It was rough.
And it was rough, and I thought I was gonna be able to wear some simple clothes. You don't get to do that. You're just wearing your regular prison and that whatever they give you, that's what you're wearing.
It's a call.
Yeah, you going there with some prison guards that got like rips in them, and that's what I wore, whatever they give it, you know. And I'm sick, like really sick, like I'm like mentally like just not feeling like myself.
You know.
It sucks to be in a situation like that. I remember them coming and get me. I was so like stressed out, man, I felt my knees felt weak, and.
What did your buddies feel like?
Weak and tense and not healthy like.
I remember feeling like that when I first got kidnapped, like where my knees got weak and I wanted to run. I don't know where to run where, but I wanted to run somewhere and it just felt like that upset stomach like just.
And they come and.
They come get me in there takes me back out the way I came in, and that there's a box with travels clothes.
Again, I see it. I know he's gonna be transported to.
I remember going up to the Brooklyn Courthouse and they had tons of marshalls that day. It's Monday morning, tons of marshals, like everywhere you live. It's cold out too. I don't have jack and cold. I'll see you're just in your prison. Yeah, it's just in its cold in New York in December. You know, I'm probably colding on my own already because I'm stressed out and my nerves are kicking it.
And they take me up to like the fourth floor.
We're going like up the backstairs, and I remember aluminum like rating super playing in the house, you know, and whenever they were walking into a people that are like the marshal will come and blocked us all the doors, say everybody stop normal and while they walk you by, and you know, we're using it the doors, the back staircase,
you know, on avoiding the elevators. I could look out those windows and see like the street of that familiar like picture where you were seeing the news, but instead of you looking at the courthouse, I'm you know, I was looking at them. And they take me to that where they have jury rooms really nice the other chairs and they sit you down and you and your twelve
agents there they're protecting. And the way before we left the prison though, they they grabbed me a sacked lunch and they gave it to me.
Here be hungry.
Four pieces of bread and two pieces of cheese, fell the fruit, the milk.
Sitting there, maybe hours went by, like waiting.
I remember on eleven thirty he comes, you know, the prosecutors, and they're like, we're gonna bring you in. You ready, No, I'm not ready, No way, I'm not ready. I don't want it to You can be fine, okayment don't. I remember seeing at him Fellas and them and seeing on them Fellas, and.
He just looked like different. You know, a shower, does you good?
I wanted to tell him because he just looked like a different person, you know, well, like Fresherman smart.
Yeah.
They were calling him the candidate, so he had that kind of demeanor where he could I could see him be a politician. Got me admiring his nice suit too. He's like, we're gonna come get you and you're gonna be fine. Okay, I've seen a bit.
Oh my, did I.
Just feel so sick after that? I was just I mean, just rethinking about it. I was just sitting there, you know, under leather, reclining, just rocking back and forth, standing up and walking, and the marshals in sensitive like sit down here, making me nervous, like you're nervous.
Like really, And.
A while later they're like, okay, come on, let's go. You ready, guys going? So then everyone gets up, like let's go. We're going out to the court.
They go on.
They closed to make sure nobody's coming out any elevators or doors. Here we go back up the staircase and we're going up you know, six floors I believe, like to the tenth floor where the court was happening.
And we're on our way up and we make it to like floor number eight. No go back, go back, go back, Yeah, go back, go back, go back, go back. Everyone go back.
Get it?
They said, wait, they had to wait.
And here I go back, sitting in the courting in that jury room again. I pissed a thousand times. I think, you know, just none stopped going to bad job you NEOs. In my mind, I'm going just to prayer, been saying to praying, like just you know, it's just talking to God on my own, just ask him to be with me and them. Fellas comes back that, look, we got a little backed up, but we're working on it. We're gonna make sure we we're trying to get you into Okay.
He goes like an hour and a half goals by it. It's like near four o'clock. I've been sitting in this room stressed out since nine in the morning. Another hour ago.
Somebody nothing like five thirty or something, six o'clock almost, and he comes back and says, pee, looking man, I'm sorry, yeah, we're yeah, we're not the court during them for tomorrow. I was like, what I just sat here in this torturing myself all day and here we go again, back to the prison. Could I drive back to the MTC?
What was that night?
Like?
I couldn't handle that no more so.
What I did is they give you like an allergy medication and you take one and that makes you like sleepy.
But I prayed and I slept. I will up here a lot better that to not ready to do it, but better.
And we go through the same process, get my back, lunch, get my torn prison guards, and we go back and I sit again in the same room. There's way anxious again. But then I'm seeing this time is for real and hours go back again. I don't know, maybe eleven o'clock or so, they come into like okay, let's go, it's time, and here we go again. Same a team go close, door, moving out there, you know, and they stop.
Again like they'll go back. I'm like, what you're driving me bananas? Like go back, go back, go back. Oh oh my god.
I was like, what the hell are they doing?
I would say, like around one o'clock or so when they come again.
What did you feel like at that point?
I right, just like I felt like just now myself, like nigga, I'm like, I've been living with the anxieties for since I flew into this place, you know, and it's been uncomfortable and kind of horrific to be in this moment, but you got to live through it for
you don't understand what I'm saying. If I could explain it, maybe like receiving your master's or your PhD or college green walking on State and things so good with the exact opposite is what I kind of could feel like, and here we go again this and I walked in the last time, I remember feeling like, are we really going but as we're going up the stairs, you know it's bright. It's sunny out, super sunny that day. You know it's cold, so but super soon the hallway though,
the stair kise is cold. I'm freezing, like it's freezing. And this time I make it like past the ninth floor, I'm like, oh shit, like this is real. Well, I could feel like like breathing came like a little bit short and deeper, you know, And they open the door and the path towards the courtroom is narrow, I kind of like narrow, and it's so clean. It's like white and bright, like the way you think about you open your eyes and you're seeing heaving, Like that's how bright
it is. Cause the whole floor is surrounded by windows and the windows are open, you know, no shading. The sun is shining that day, and there's marshals lined up all around the all down the hallway like like they're just standing there. I remember walking on the path and they're kind of walking me kind of fast, and you're just kind of like just walking like I have no custom,
just you know, walking through this narrow hallway. And then I could see the courtroom door like through the lot and I remember it feeling like horrible taking that first step into the court room and looking but not really looking, you know, and they kind of like guide me right into the witness seat which is off of the laft like that, and they just like sit down and and I kind of sit down, thatch. And I haven't even really got you know, looked up to get a glimpse
of the court room yet, but I can. I know there's tons of people in the courtroom still. And I remember the pro the marshall leaned over and he whispered to me like just remember, you know. I just remember, he ain't shit here, he can't do nothing here. And then I sit down and I look up and it's just like people, like just everyone just walking around. I could see the the benches where people said to view the case. I could see him, and I could see
the cameras everywhere, and I hear them saying. I hear them talk to something about like the overflow area. Now I'm aware that there's more people in the view, like viewing it from outside the courtrooma and I could see different people and right away I could see, like, you know, a woman off the back of undem and she like looking, you know, cause it's far. It feels like it's a block away, like from the witness seat to the door to the to their main natrance. It seems like a long.
In a way. I could see it. And then she grabs her binoculars. I'm like, the fuck.
I see h you know, someone in the suit kind of looking at me and I he's walking towards and I could see him and he's smiling. He comes towards and he's like, he just gives me their thumbs up, and I see it's my brother's attorney, and I know what he's saying to just because I've dealt with it.
I've dealt with people like it so much.
In that situation, I could see him telling me, like, you look just like your brother, you know from his demeanor, like you look just like your brother, because I never met him personally. With my know he gives me a done up and you know he's representing.
Chapel Jay's attorney, Jeffrey Litman, had previously defended wait for it, John Gotti Junior, the son of the John Gotti who sam Me the Bull cooperated against. Yes, the same Sami the Bull who was Pete sellmate of course, Sammy the Bulls cooperation against John Gotti was what led to Jay's epiphany that he too could cooperate. Jeffrey Littman is a top defense lawyer, and after working for John Gotti Junior and Jay Flores, he ended up defending alf Chappo.
How did you make that that made you feel like that? Your brothers?
It's a he ended up representing our chape that you're stood up against. Were you worried that he could use stuff that he knew about you against you? It seems strange, right that he that he could represent day and then he can go and represent the person that you cooperated against.
It just seems to be weird.
I can't say that.
I don't think that for mister Ligman that he didn't get to be a successful lawyer by doing stuff like that.
I don't think that even Chapel would be worth him doing it.
I think his reputation is more important, you know, because if I can't trust some long contrust that you know, I think that he has to be there's gotta be some form of professionalism in that world. And at the same time, everything he knows my prosecutors now because they acted as an attorney for my brother and I as well. But still it is a little weird because you know it's like my you know, you know my wife. You know,
it's certaintien. He gets me the tongues up. And then I see in Jai Goberg and everyone's like dressing the nine's like I don't even recognize no more. Everyone looks different to me, like in their best clothes. And I'm looking around. I'm nervous. I'm like I can't find my come to a spot. I'm cold, and my mouth is so dry. I'm drinking like they have like small waters like right off to my within my reach. I'm like
just drinking the water. They're not helping me. And the martial like you wanna breast mean or something you want like he see it, Like I said, my moth so dry, and it's just nothing was helping me. My mouth was I've never been experience that kind of like drying off in my in my life. And I'm just like, oh, what's gonna happen? And I could see like the defense table off to the left and the court rooms nothing like you see on TV. The courtrooms set up a
little different. Word you do have the aisles with the benches for the audience for the people, right.
Okay, and the little r you know, the little door.
But there's just two beautiful long tables, like a couple of long tables like in the front, and then behind, you know, behind it another long tables are one of 'em for the defense defense table, and the other one's a government's tables. Beautiful leather chairs and you know, and beautiful wood everywhere, and.
I could see like the judge's.
Seat, and you know, I have to kind of like look up a little bit, and the court reporters right sitting right in front of me.
And s slowly slowly.
I see the people like coming into the court room, more of the prosecutors more, you know, I see my Boxcutity and just waves at me from padway, and he seems distant. You know. There's such a big court room and the people are staring, you know, pondering, and I'm like, at this point, like my nerves are the worst they've ever been, and the people are finding it and fighting in and and here it comes the jurors and they walk in and there right away, as soon as they
walk in there they're looking at the witness. See and then downstairs back thing. They they just they don't stop staring at you. And they're not that far away from me, but they just wouldn't stop staying at you. They're just staring at you like up and down. Now I'm looking at them like I that's one of the worst things, that they're looking at you like you're a zoo animal. And there's a lot of them. Thinking I thought I
was twelve. There's like twenty onemen. It seems I guess he got the back of Jers or whatever and m and I could see like that the fence tables starting to get a little more crowded, like people are coming in and I see other people with knock clears in the back. And I could see that they're sketch artists too, like they're they're they're drawing.
I could see 'em sketching out.
And and as as I'm sitting there like nervously for like maybe ten minutes, fifteen minutes, it felt like forever, you know, I could like sit back on the table, I could kind of look, I can lean forward and I could like see around the the jurdges kind of like.
Podium can whatever you call it.
Uh, I could see that there's a door right opposite of my door, and I see them kind of open it and close it. And then I look and I see that there's marshals there, and I'm like yeah, And then I look and I see them bringing open the door. Let's see and Drey don't letting chat one.
Surviving l Chapo, The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug Lord Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and me Charlie Webster, Produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, Assistant producer and research support.
By Kasey Hurtz.
Edit and sound designed by Nico Kalella. Theme music and original score by Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and Me Charlie Webster. Curtis fifty cent.
Jackson presents a Lionsgate Sound and.
G Unit audio production exclusively for iHeart Podcasts
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