Episode 4 - On The Run

as you corporate, I need to hundre kids. What makes you think that I won't be able to give you KOs? That's for you don't figure out. They said, you're a little bit late. If you would have called me yesterday, I would have been able to give you three kilos. And he's like, I said, I give the gun. It doesn't work. If you know anything about my business, and you know that no one pays cash. So but if you want to wait a couple of weeks, I got you. I don't have a couple of weeks. Your brothers didn't

have a couple of weeks. He said, how many kids you just I don't even want to lie to you. I'll make sure I'll give you whatever I got that we'll call you back in twenty minutes. And I got off the phone hit me. It sounded like, Saul hold that. I know the best person is gonna tell me. So I have a family member that comes from that group of people. So I called it. I said, hey, they cannot be Let me ask you a question. What do

you know about Saul? Do you think it's whole? Yeah, that didn't That's who it is because that's what he does. He robbed and can't ask people for money. Now everyone's around, they're like, what they say? What they say? There's like twenty five of us literally in the middle of the street. We're comfortable there, you know, in the West Soup of Chicago. We're in front of Oprah studios. I said to everybody they want I told him that they had that, And so listen, guys, you guys are the people that are

most important. You know what I mean. Let's kind of take a boat. Mm hmm. I could call the bet right now, save my brother mm hm. But we're can get and diet. I was accepted in twenty years right, then, or I could pay the three kids they are asking before, But I'm gonna have to make that money up. What do you think everybody says this is better to have kids with the way except for a couple of good duodes that were ridistance that they want to like call

the beds, let's go to jail. True, seriously, those dudes are still with me to the Yeah, you're right now to pick the money up. It was a reality that the other day it was about a business. It was about money, and no one's ever gonna care, which is true because that's the fact for me as well and for you as well. We could be all good, but if it comes to your life and you're like sorry, rest later. So it was a lesson learns. They don't know this, but I could pay that money five times.

Even imagine that we have to hide that we have money like that to our own people because the minute they think they have money, they think, well then I like him, but he could afford this loss. That's the difference between him still be and them getting killed. And people that were with me in close associates that worked for us, they're like, bro, get your brother back, get your brother back, forget this as if we're gonna get in that. He said, I don't care, We're all getting

that whatever. Get your brother back. Man. That meant a lot to me. I was thinking that I might not make it out, like man, this is crazy, you know, thinking who it could be of course, you know, and thinking about what would I do, and different emotions, you know, anger, sad, it's you fear. To sit there like that with that kind of silence and to be dealing with that alone was hard, you know. Of course, those little demons that come back, like reliving a nightmare gas again again. Who

built for that? Who is bill? To have something like that happened to me think you're gonna die, not just get like shot at or something. But I really had that, you know, days of thinking you might die because they're gonna my brothers will pay the money and tell me any of this. You know, it was a turn at that moment. It was like the worst thing ever in the world. Did they do anything to you during that time? No,

they didn't. Actually, I think the worst thing they did was not say nothing for some reason, like I don't know what they have in common, but they just the silence of not saying nothing, like like if they started talking to me or something, you're telling me they're gonna come me, it might be a little better than just quiet sitting on some plastic all there. You know, somes like torture. Yeah, Like I always think that the apprehensiveness and they're not knowing is far worst. Sometimes. How did

that last? Of all three days? It was today? And realize that you see stuff in the movies, it's don't like that, you know what I mean? This is my life. This is something I'm living through. These people are gonna kill me for the money. And bring it back to the fact that how serious this life we're living wasn't And I remember thinking about my brother and I was thinking, like, man, was he taking everything serious when he you know, like we played with our lives, so whether we're gambling all

the time, it's like we take it too lightly. Now I'm in the situation to that. How do I get out? M hm hm, there goes my phone. That's the kidnap person. I said, I have any one kilos and three? He said, all right, make if I had a thousand and let's go. Every ready, body the morning? All right, I have already been the morning. We spent the night at the house, all of us. We didn't, no one go home. I went out to my brother's room and you know the bed, you know it's there. It still looks the same. I

was tired, so I laid down in his bed. I felt like religious, But what I'm gonna ask God, like to save me from this problem that keep putting myself in. I remember getting my knees and praying, and I said, I gave my brother back. I promised I'll change my life. That's why back. And that's what I said. I gusually had a moment and I was just thinking about like us, like I can't see what I like when I'm my brother. Yea. By this time, I'm I don't know, laying on the floor.

And all day I was filthy again and just filthy. Just remember them coming and telling me, come on, let's go. Please let them be taking me home. Coming back in the van. He has like a bottle of some kind of alcohol cleanser. He starts springing me down, bringing the handcuff, sounds, spraying everything he touched on me. I could see he has clothes on. Thank It made me worry, like, dude, where's he taking? No, I don't know I could smell the alcohol too, that I could smell a cup from

the Hey's sprained on me. Did you say that they might be taking you say, kill me? Yeah, I'm thinking like he's cleaning the handcuffs off, any evidence. They drive me for like an hour at least it was a long hour. I could tell we're in traffic. I hear the van stop. He pulls me off the back of the van. He puts handcuff keys in my shoe. Can you tell me those are the handcuff keys. Don't touch, don't move, don't turn around. Count a hundred and my

eyes are still covered. It's sunny. It's like my eyes are hurting because of you daylight. I take too hands off. I try to see the dam, but he was gone like that fast. He was gone. And look, I could see a neighbor like I'm in the alley on the floor and I'm doing I can see that there's a man looking. He's looking like what the hell is going on? And I'm trying to take the handcuffs off. And I grab the handcuff key and I'm trying to take the

handcuffs off. I take one off, and then I'm trying to walk away so he doesn't see me, but he's like, look, I can see him picking like and then I just, you know, stop and take you the handcuff key off and throwing him away. I threw everything away, like the last thing one is in times of pull up, and him got a handcuffed, you know, and looking around like where am I will before I jump out? I tell him when he's putting me on the van. I remember telling him, look, you got my phones. I said, do

me a favor. I need one phone for me. And I had like the world smartest phone at the time. It was like a pink little phone. I used to use fash and and I didn't want to lose my communication with her again, like because sometimes really difficult to get older, and like I need that phone. He actually brought it gave it to me. I used that phone to call my brother. I didn't know where I was at. I was like, I'm in the suburbs somewhere. I started

walking around. I could look at the street and I remember like, okay, I kind of see the big street, and once I get to a picture, I'm like, I know where I'm at. I was like in the suburbs, off of up like first Avenue in Roosevelt Road, you know, SA Chicago, and I'm I called Jane. Look I'm on Roosevelt and like ninth Avenue and he's like, don't worry, I'm down the black ya he said, someone come get me. And it was just like for such a relief to

be free from that. You know, what do it feel like when they took you out of the van and you knew they were going to release you and not kill you, and that I was thinking, my brother, thinking God like thinking out of that, I'm getting out of this one day. How much it costed me? Of course, and it changed me. That moment changed me to be living through that changed me. It changed me, but not made me change my life side. It changed it me inside.

You know what way I felt that vulnerability, like wow, man, this is you know, to be hand called on the van, like man, this is what you get for being the man. You guys won't be the man. It comes on the cost. And to be taken like that, being pushed around like that, it was like horrible, I'm being helped captive, my life on the line, and I don't know how long they're gonna keep me here. I don't know if they're ever

gonna let me go alive. That was real, Like, that was a kind of situation that we put ourselves in. It's funny how we looked. I felt the same way when I got knaped again when I went to prison. Like those feelings, I could tell you they were like identical to what I felt when we were in prison. Yeah, h didn't change anything you then did from then on, I did. I did how I was actually more careful. But it didn't stop you from doing anything. It just

made me more careful. Yeah, I couldn't help. But wonder if the twins were attempted to get revenge on kidnappers, So will did you ever end up doing anything? I'm not a revengeful person. I don't carry heat. I'm not gonna waste my time in heading to someone. But he let the lot start HM. With Pete being a little more careful, Ja and Val felt safe enough to get married. They honeymooned in Mexico in the small and sleepy country town of halper Zacatecas, known for its colorful mudbrick houses

and cobbled stone streets. This is where the Twins family is actually originally from, the boy's father and wants a man in America was still living there as a fugitive, and their older brother Armando, now out of jail, had moved to Mexico to be with him. Since the minute we got there, well, it was the happiest I've ever seen her. One night and we're laying in bed, I'm sleeping and she wakes up screaming hysterically crying, comes up to bed and she's crying it's what I mean. And

I'm like, what you know, what happened? Like, what's wrong? Like? And she's like, We're gonna go to jail for the rest of your life. And I was like, I am like like I'm shocked, Like i'ma can I go to jail for the rest of your life? I only want one thing, honestly, I want to ask you for one thing. She said, just say yes to me. Whenever I asked you for to say yes. And I'm like, Okay, let's live here. I will never want to go back. I was shocked, and it's a please, I'll do anything as

long as you stay here. And I said, all right, I'll stay here with Jane val Happily in Mexico. Pete was the only one left in Chicago, and he was busy looking after the business. M h February nine thousand four. Hear my phone start ringing, ringing, the ring. I think that that's act like every drug day a nightmare to have like twenty five minutes calls from a number right now,

what's going on? Remember and saying my phone and there's my sister and she's like, b there in the houses, everyone's house feather, they're looking for you, and they're looking for JA. Don't go home, check this, just let the businesses. They're everywhere, and I remember that panic hit. I'm calling, you know, I'm calling checking everyone to see everyone's in pain. I'm calling my attorney and yeah, they said it's kicking,

you know. They go to ten different places looking for my brother and I have his assist and there's a word out for our arrest. There's an depending and Diamond out of Milwaukee. Their search wards. I'm like, yeah, that's not good. And I'm sending that thing I wouldn't gonna do, and just figuring out what's next. The first thing I

had to do is get our money together. I started like just picking up, you know, money and arranging night the drugs to be distributed, and and trying to keep all my workers in order because I'm not sure what's gonna happen. And once I get the money together and I put the money away and I gotta leave, I gotta making a week to Mexico. I crossed the linings into Indiana and I go back on brand new Mini Round. I just give him the cats, like I don't want

that back. And I had my friend's mom, listen, are you interested? Would you like the new van? It's rand near, like it's totally loaded, and then give you drive me to Texas. I'll give it to you. Sure they're not understanding, like what okay? So we drive from Chicago to Texas, Florio. I remember thinking like how many times did I take

this trip? And now I'm going to Mexico this time with the nervous thing instead of coming back Chicago with the nervous pining, I'm leaving Chicago with the nervous pining. I'm seeing Stay Troopers everywhere. I'm like, I guess it's not good, Like I'm nervous. I throw my ideas around. I have no ideas on me. My friend and his mom's driving us. And then he's driving as well, and then I come to find out that, yeah, my license suspended.

Bro do not getting that driversy ever again. Ye. So we drive to San Antonio where his family, let's say. He's like, no, I'm just going about Pops drivels across the border. He always over there anyway. My Dad's like, okay, taking the sweet time, and I'm already feeling so anxious, like please, let's just get on here. I'm thinking like they can combine us. He's like that, let's take my

chuck the chucks. I'm halfwy like breaking down and let's see like trumping off and putting it carbureted loidor and fill in the Ohio, I'm not, we don't have time for this. It was just like so stressful for me just to get to the border. I remember calling my brother to him, look, I'm gonna be there. We were crossing the boarding already had some noon like Friday or something, and just feeling some really to have crossed that border.

It's to Mexico. We used to have this spot where we like the nicest hotel and novel Ardo was like the Hilton Guardien or something where we would stay, you know, all the time I remember till you just picked me up there A couple of hours later, you know, everyone comes. It's a vow jay, my brother, Mombo and his wife, they can pick me out. We're like, I'm just so happy to see so then like, okay, we made it out.

You know, I'm trying to, you know, catch my brother everything that I did, and everything was going on, just thinking that what was next. You know, it was a mess driving back home, just so much to catch up on them, taking like we're gonna to make our lives there. Driving back, you mean, back home to Mexico, like tot second home. We drove to a border and when we got to see Peter, the first thing he did was

kissed the floor. He said, I just feel like a low was lifted up my shoulders and we just started driving. So here we are mean about Peter. No, the brother, and my sister all it did really good. Of course, things had dramatically changed since we were all together. That

was the first time we were out together again. The intensity of those last days, and I'm looking for my brother to help me, like, give me what do you think my brother was a honeymoon and can't cool And I'm like bro, Yeah, you gotta get the hell out of home. My god, you gotta get this. I had to go innocent. We'll just say it out loud. My brother Teams said every time he was going to something, I was like having Finally, how did you say that?

You don't forget? Let's recording this podcast was the first time the brothers have been in the same room together for well at least a decade, so sometimes there was a bit of unresolved tension in the room. Going back to Mexico, there was one person who hadn't joined them yet, Pete's love Viv, who followed her heart across the border. She got on the next plane out to Chicago to

join the rest of the family. At first, there was a bit of uncertainty around what would happen to the business, and little by little I was going to kind of feed out and stop doing that like step son drugs and did the opposite happen? M hm. So my brother Peter, because we couldn't trust many people, he would just communicate with me. So I'm the one talking to everyone on the phone say I went, you know, I'm getting closed.

I'm calling everybody to meet him. Are constantly on the phone because we knew that we mean him could communicate in a safe way. I'm kind of doing all the arrangements and I'm the one kind of talking to the to our workers back home that everything is kind of going through me and my brother had like our our way of community to exchangeing numbers, like we could, you know, we had a little cold to be like okay, and

if we felt comfortable, we could call each other. I write this cold down and he'll give me the sequence of the number that could like unlock on my side and I'll be like, okay, I know what number he has, you know, so we can come to I don't care of the films are listening to that. Yeah. By the time they figured this out, what we had another phone. We start to promote some of our workers so it's

not we're not there no more. We need eideneers. So our right hand man, who was with us for the beginning, we promoted him, You're gonna oversee everything because you're there in Chicago. We're gonna give you a percentage, and we're gonna give you the ability to start picking up your own customers. And now you could actually make money. And you gotta oversee everything, and he you know, he knew

the business were just forever. So for sure, we just started promoting different you know, people to take a bigger tests that we're gonna gonna be able to be there. And it wasn't planning. It kind of developed as you needed it. There was no drug Enterprise for Dummies book out there, even though we write one. We should know, I'm not promoting that, like I'm not from This was what we feel is gonna work beast And as we went along, we adjusted. We you know, we learned the

hard way. We're being mistakes and we were learned from them. And we kept calling we're twenty two years old. You know, we're twenty two years old. We're on the run. Don't forget I'm the run. Is is is a pretty nice

on the run, if that makes any sense. Once we got to me and I felt like freeing to leave, Americans had like man like how they come down here and gives it's gonna be a wild So we have some freedom and you know, feel a little bit free in times he's and not only that that when the Marshall and DA came like they didn't affect my business. They had an indicting, but that's it, Like, you know, my crew still that they didn't golden and I felt like I was lost up ahead of them, you know. Yeah,

it was streets. It was liberating, like okay, now I don't have worry about that, and I would make yourself comfortable when we got there. They had Bob poppanys and we had about cars. I remember my dad's advice at our all home to go to the leat our own be apples to drive and we're able to live our like I don't know such sweet like moments in our lives, our memories, you know, to you to get as a family and like really thank my wife and I you know later in Ja to really have that foundation of

our apart little from each other. Mm hmm, son sense you know, it rains and the power of go out, and I still remember like vow making the best time of it, like it's the time we're born. No, we're gonna put your raids and we're not used to that. Let's push you raid, guys. It's just a family gathering and we'll just make the best out of it, like

just doing the simplest things. And I don't think that me and my brother ever had that like as a family, and our family was always more like loving but serious book, you know, And I share this with You're like, I never played cards, I never played board games. I didn't play it against I didn't know what chess was. I didn't play scrabble. And you know that comes from a different family where she's like, let's you know, let's play this, and let's play a card game. And I'm a spade queen.

I'm like, what spade and they'll laugh at me. Yea. He made the best out of We would all have fun no matter what should involved. My parents, you know, they were like you know in Mexican and then my dad and like, no, we're gonna do this. It was a good time. M h. Yeah. So that's time with your mom and dad. The older brother because he and his family, he's living there, so I'll take we'd all go to like the horse Traces with my dad and

my mom and all of us. Now that we're down there, it was easier to kind of like to meet people. We're buying like different properties, so we're meeting old people that were in the villains like a long time ago, and I'd be like like, oh, he has the biggest you know, y'aba field in the state. You no, we're trying to dive friends, I haven't need at the same time, you know, to see what's out there. And it seems like,

you know, like I said that you've got money. They respect you your names, like dad, that's a good name. And that kind of helped our whole situation. The well difficult thing that we can cool it was bringing the money down. So how did you get the money from Chicago to Mexico? For every problem is there's solution if we'll bring down a minute dollars at a time. They already checked the cars coming across. But we're like, man, you know, a man in dollars sits in the shoot,

so as will be like, okay, we'll find somebody. Hey, you want a free car, you want a job, been under name put insurance, do all that. Here's fifty. The drugg was still coming the same way, same system. Just we're not there. I'm not letting no one like say control that, um do anything. They're not seeing us before. We'll hands and we will see our customers all the time. But we're just doing it like that be a telephone like everything you're phone and you know it's working out.

Could you know, almost feels like they've never left. But it's just very time consuming on the phone every step. We had like a little meeting where we had all our workers come out together and listen, this is gonna be the new normal. Not we're not there. Peter's like, um, let's get some forward. It just covered before with it. Well what about everybody else? And like okay, almost say cause eight times okay, the US twenty one in their eyes,

we're just Americans here on vacation. And see is that what you were seeing as No, no, not that has no but I see people started talking. We started going out like let's go to a little bar, and man, we walked to the bar like we're walking down the streets like so friendly and calm in the town, has a little set and we're anyone sits down and has their coffee and excused waters. And you know, I have a whole crew of all these little kids will follow

over everywhere wet, you know, like teenagers now. Give them a little money and buying some shoes and stuff, and I'm like, goals, you know, tell the owner to be out some champagne. So they'll bring the case of champagne for the biggest city can closest to us, and then we'll go drink. I remember ask and I'm like, how much is a case of coronas? I think it's like dirty pacils or something like three dollars, Give me a hundred of ums and just give him to everyone everyone

pretty pretty bud. We drove my dad mad, like we were driving him crazy because he knew what people are gonna think, like what are you guys doing. We needed some type of protection as well, so we got the police force and we started to donate just to be safe. They started working for us. Remember at this time in my twenties, Like you know, I really want to say that about corruption in Maxwell or anywhere even here, Like I do understand that the negative things that come with corruption,

like what should corrupt someone a little bit? They're corrupt all the way and once they take money from you, don't take me from anyone. That system doesn't like work for the people because it will affect them in everywhere manageable. And I think that we didn't see that at the time. Work for us. It works sure what we're doing, so but we didn't see that next you know, they're cutting corners on their daily job. They're not really doing their

jobs anymore because they're corrupt. You know, whether it's a government politician, they have their self interest at him. And all this time you're working the fans. There's there's new things we're doing, like at the time, we have to be to come to go with like you know, meeting people don't well start meeting people. We have products, we have cocaine, and we have a distribution. We don't like. We never stopped sending. We never stopped so we're always

open to new opportunities. We're always looking for the next thing, just in case. It was always us, even though we were comfortable, always kind of starting the new thing while the good thing that was working for was going. I never intended to miss a phone call from any one of my phones. It was just so much going on, so many different people coming in and out of the house, different cars, Jay with his hundred phones, Pe with his I mean, it was just overwhelming. It was a very overwhelming.

I didn't understand that either. I knew that the business did come first, damn fair, and it was into this situation we're in or I was in the shower. I'd be like, oh yeah, it was never missed a call. Definitely never missed a call. We could be in the middle of dinner or in the middle, you know, of a movie or whatever, and he would never miss a call. I mind my own business, but I knew that whatever, whatever was going to happen, that was going to come first,

and it was it was important. What did you have a missical? There's so much a stake. My life was online, my brother's life, everyone's lives are all being you know, not only mine. My work is my customer. I just couldn't miss the couldn't afford to think that someone made a decision that needed my you know, attended, and I did, wasn't there and I missed the car. Someone's kind of say they live it. Money is now our phones are our lifeline. Literally, how many times did you have at

this time? He used laying because now anyone we talked to a can trust. So that means anyone the person who helps with the cars, they got a full I got a false personally out a card of you's got a phone. I didn't trust the communication to like put us in the vulnerable say where they can find us. You know, I think that Peter and j they Michael managed everybody, and I feel like they implemented that system that they learned in McDonald's to their own organization, their

own business. They felt like, Okay, well it's the fried guy just has one job to do one thing and make fries. You can't suck it up. In their mind, they just felt like, I don't think for us, We're just gonna think for you. We're a problem solvers. And not only do I want to solve the problem, want to solve it's the best way possible. So for every little situation was like, how are we going to do this?

Now that we're here, we have experience, we we keep does the workers in our warehouse right, how are we gonna wait that? Like, you know what we're gonna do as you keep needsing my because the shipment for getting on the road, and that would bring that the Feds with them. Did that happen all up? It happened often nuts crossed to say we can't afoor to even take

their chance. So what we did is, you know what, We're gonna have our drivers get a warehouse in Chicago and we're gonna make them get through them to our house and if we need to have them sit there for a couple of days. Once they're end, they're gonna sit whilst we feel everything good. We'll send our drivers and hid them to pick up the cocaine. And we're gonna do the same in a We're gonna do the same in Mexico. That way, one of them gets caught.

They don't know where the rest of the warehouses are. When we saw that, but we don't have to worry about that. We took drug dealers that were selling drugs that we knew, and we said were you can't have no more drugs. You're gonna come work for us. If we were signing twenty five kids for us a month, I'm gonna be the doll knowlarge you're not making that you can co work for us. You're a manager now. Sometimes we could have them sit in the house six

months at a time, wouldn't leave the house. We'll have someone to actually bring them food and they would sit there and take care of the drugs or account money all day. Later on, we rated our own warehouse as our own the lodges, we're out fitting our own vehicles, we have, we have our own mechanics, having mechanics, we have Carton lists, rug lists. We're probably a good eighteen people at that time? Did you think everybody was something

obviously good? Around thirty people? And how many drugs do you each? Because I suddenly sold at least a thousands, you though day hundred twelve and the kiss of a month, they started beat our benefit not to take the drugs the Chicago Club we to make more money, so us get making these deals in l A and transported them. It was more beneficient. So the common practice of the drugs and the way it works is that wherever they

give you the drugs, you're gonna pay the price. So if I get the drugs in l A, I'm getting an l A price from I get the drugs in Chicago, I'm getting Chicago price. Get the drugs in New York, I'm paying New York press. The farther it goes away from the border, the higher the price. It was beneficient for us to get the drugs in Mexico or in

l A. And it was for Chicago. And I realized that the smallest person in our organization was putting was the partners of part ones, the person they actually went in handed the knoler to someone. It was so important because without him I couldn't make my business work. And I think like the same way where Amazon, if you take care of your drivers, you delivery for snow, what's

your business based on nothing. Within a year of them being indicted out of Milwaukee and officially going on the run to Mexico, they rebuilt their entire drug empire and now have man stash houses across America, their own mechanic shops, car yards, thirty staff, and were selling keys kilos a month, easily bringing in three million dollars every single month. Not bad business for a couple of boys who are just

twenty two at the time. But the twins were always looking for the next big thing, the next pathway to more cash, more notoriety, more success, and they found one in the form of a man named Guadaloupe also known as Loupe or TiO uncle h. The first sign I picked him up, I didn't know him. My brother had met him before, and so were I Then to go Twins, you know, it's like just go pick him up to

the airport. Are you're gonna recognize and sees me? It's like, sobod you know, deals like oh cool, okay, we leaves an older man imagine white hair glasses. He becomes, you know, one of the biggest and most reliable cookie stupid with his head up to that moment. We have a bunch of issues. We get wrong. My work is can we get rob perform? You can else. I tried to stop the loads and say, read up, my house has been compromised again. Don't say no more cokey, and he tells

me he can't stop that. Danny received dons of dolls. He requested that my brother and I turned over all our my favorite business. I want to warehouse. I want, you know, the guys that helped me. This is not like I can't do that. I'm not gonna do that. Becaus like a week ten days later, it says, you know what it's fix is right? Come on, it's not it's fixes April, it doesn't five. I don't see him. I brought a bunch of folds. I'm just giving him

some folds. That how you been? Whatever? We go, We sit down, were just small talk, well five ten maybe cool by and then um I heard the loudest bangs go off. It sound like a grenade went up. They kind of stolen, like what and I can hear it coming from like the back of the house. You know, you happened so fast, like honestly, it's just black hops.

And I hear the kind of yearning after the you know, the loud bang, like yearning the island a little bit to understand that they were yelling no fellow please when I've seen their al S team as they're coming in with ristles. They come in and they're like everybody down m surviving l Chapo. The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug Lord is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and me Charlie Webster. Our producers are myself alongside Jackson mcclennan.

Research and editorial support is from Casey Hurts. Edit and sound design by Nico Palella. Original score by Ryan Sorenson. Executive produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and myself Charlie Webster. If you'd like to know more about this story, head over to lions Gate Sound dot com. Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a lions Gate Sound and g Unit audio production exclusive Bleak for iHeart Podcasts.